Conquer Your Fear of Public Speaking with Diane Diresta

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Speaking, the show about effective speaking in public to the media, at work and in life. Speaking with TJ Walker.

Welcome to Speaking WITH TJ Walker. This is the program for communicators, leaders, people who really want to know more about communication and learn the detailed secrets of how great communicators do what they do. Our special guest today is Diane Diresta. She is a longtime communications consultant, presentation expert. She's worked with every kind of major Wall street firm executive. She has all the academic credentials. She has a master's degree from Columbian speech pathology. She's been a former president of the National Speakers Association New York chapter. So she's done it all. And she has a new book out called Give Fear the How to Knock Out Fear of Public Speaking. Diane, thanks for joining us.

Thank you, T.J. that's a real New York title, isn't it, as we broadcast from New York City.

How did you come up with that, by the way? Because it is provocative.

I will tell you. First of all, it's so not me because if you know who I am, I'm very refined. I am not a street in your face kind of person. But I read a book called Success Under Stress by Sharon Melnick. And in that book they were talking about stress techniques. And I learned of a technique where if you press on an acupressure port on your third finger right behind the knuckle and you press on that point with your thumb, it is an anxiety reducing meridian. So it actually reduces speaking or anxiety fear. So that's one of the things I teach people. So literally you are giving fear the finger. And that's how I actually came up with it. And then of course there's the double entendre that you would see taxi drivers using it for a different reason. So that's truly how I came up with the title. And people love it. They think it's a great title.

One of the most common questions I receive, and I'm sure you receive from people, it doesn't matter if it is a 12 year old niece or nephew or a 70 year old executive. How do I get over my fear of public speaking?

Well, this is why I wrote the book, because my first book, knockout Presentations, is everything from soup to nuts. This is an ebook, give Fear the Finger, which deals only with the fear and it's all confidence building techniques. So there are actually four categories that I talk about, physical, mental, chemical and behavioral. But the way you get over the fear is twofold. It's about mindset and skill set. So we work on the Mental. And we work on the skill set.

And break it down for us more specifically on the mental part. Because people do say, well, I realize it's all mental, but nothing I can do about it.

Yes there is. And you're right, fear begins in the mind. And so whenever the brain scans for a threat, that lower brain, the amygdala, goes into a fear state. And then we get out of control. And that's why our heart starts racing and we start speaking so quickly. So the first thing I do is I work with limiting beliefs. What are people believing about this? And helping people to get present. Because I know if someone is very nervous, tj, it's because they are not in the present moment, they're in the future. And what they're thinking is everything that can go wrong. Oh, I hope I don't screw up. Oh, what if I forget my train of thought? So we start there. I show them recovery techniques so if something happens, they know what to do. But we work with the mental and we start working with empowering beliefs that they can say to themselves and practice. And here's what I say, that has been very impactful for many people. When you're being nervous, tj, and you know this as well as I do, you're being self centered because it's all about me, myself and I. Get over yourself. It's not about you, it's about them, the audience. And so when you change your focus and you put it on what can I do to serve? How can I make these people feel more comfortable? You start to lose that self consciousness which is part of the. So that's the mental part.

Everyone has heard from the Brady Bunch days on tips like imagine your audience in their underwear or naked or visualize a standing ovation. What's the number one tip you have? If someone has to give a speech tomorrow and they're nervous, what's the number one thing you really want them to focus on if they have just 24 hours left?

Alright, so the number one thing is preparation. It's 90% preparation and 10% delivery. But once you're up there and you're feeling nervous, focus on the breath. I can't emphasize that enough because that's what brings you into the present moment and that's what gives you control. So if you think of the neuroscience, you're in your animal brain or the amygdala, when you're in a fear state, what you want is to be in your prefrontal cortex controlling being conscious. And you can do that with the breath so simply by slowing the breath and using belly breathing, deeper breathing, you will reduce the amount of heart flutter and also it will help you to pause. That's the other thing. If you make use of the pause, you'll be able to breathe and you'll be able to collect your thoughts.

The name of the book is Give Fear the How to Knock Out Fear of Public Speaking. It's available on Amazon. The Kindle edition is out. It's a quick, great read. Our special guest has been Diane Diresta. For more information about her, check out her website. I've read her books, I've seen her speak in person. She does a fantastic job. The website is diresta.com that's three W's.D I R E S T A dot com. Okay, folks, stop timeout. What are we doing here? This is a new segment on the program where I interview a well known communications expert or someone renowned in the communications world. I do what is sort of a typical five minute interview about their latest project, book, movie, and then we take you behind the curtains to analyze what were they trying to do, how did they do it? How did they prepare? So, Diane, let's dissect the interview you just gave. It's all well and good for me and friends and family. Oh, great interview. Everyone always says that. Tell us now, what were your goals? What was your goal going into an interview like that?

Well, the goal was to help people understand that nervousness is real and that they can get over it. The ultimate is, I have a solution. You can buy my book, but I want people to realize that there's hope there and that there are actual techniques that you can use to be more confident that anybody can do this.

And I would point out that because it's that sort of a short interview and not a long hour talk radio show. Please note for our audience, you didn't spend your time hawking the book and telling people, buy my book because that alienates TV hosts, producers, anchors. And what you did, which is the smart thing is you emailed it to me in advance and said, tj, this is the one thing I'd like you to promote. Which I think is exactly the correct thing to do. Now, all of us, when I'm an author, you're an author. Everyone these days is an author. The unfortunate tendency is to want to tell people everything we know and everything in our book. And that, of course, is the prescription for disaster. How do you look at all the ideas in your book and really narrow it down to the top three or however many you try to cover in an interview.

I look at the top level and the way I frame nervousness and confidence is twofold mindset and skill set. It's something basic that people can grab. So now we have the categories. Then it's drilled down. Well, what about that? What's causing the mindset? Then we talked about the self centeredness and then what are the skill sets? Here's a quick one. Focus on the breath, if nothing else. So I try to find one or two tips that people can take away from the major concept of mindset and skill set.

And do you have any specific sound bites you wanted pulled from that? I mean, let's say this had been the Today show And someone from NBC.com was looking at it because they want to do a story for their website. What are the sound bites, the actual quotes you were hoping that would be pulled from that interview?

Well, first one of them that I did, which was it's all preparation. It's 90% preparation and 10% delivery. I really want to hammer that because that really is the best confidence boost you can have. Another one was the whole idea of if you're being nervous, you're being self centered. That totally reframes the way people think about nervousness and it gives them some kind of feeling of empowerment. And I have other sound bites that I use that I did not use in this interview. If you'd like, I can share those with you as well.

Sure, I want to hear about that. And our audience would also like to know about your actual process for preparing for not only media interviews, but speeches. Walk us through that process.

Well, I always use the yam formula, which is what I talk about in my presentations to audiences, which is know yourself, know know your audience and know your message. So I focus on who's going to be listening, who is the interviewer, what do I know about them, what are the key messages that I want to come across with and what is my time frame? And so those are the types of things I consider. I write out a few of the key messages that I want and I think about what's in the book and what would be more valuable to people.

Okay, let's turn back the clock a minute and look at your history. I want to know how you got into this because there are hundreds of thousands of toastmasters all over the world, all great people from the ones I've met. And it seems like about half of them would love to have your job or my job of giving speeches and helping people give speeches and present all day. Long. How did, what was your start? I mean, my background is sort of what a lot of people would assume someone in my field is. Even though I was quiet as a kid, by the time I was 13, I was the student body president. I was the one, you know, getting up, loving to speak in front of 1200 people. That's kind of what people expect. But I want to know your history.

Well, I didn't intend to do this. I was originally going to be a secondary English teacher at secondary school, but at the time there were no jobs in that. And someone told me about the profession of speech pathology. I investigated. I liked it and worked for eight years in the school system. So it was definitely related. But I really didn't know that I was going to be doing this for a living as a business. So what happened? My career path was I left. I got a job doing stand up presentations for a consulting company. I then went to Solomon Brothers doing management training and then Drexel Burnham doing recruiting for the institutional sales and trading training program. Decided that I did not like the Wall street culture, didn't want to work there, and so I left to find another job. As I searched for two years as a training manager, I started freelancing and I realized this suits my personality. So I started as a work for hire doing all these other programs. And then I started to commit that this is going to be my business and started to narrow my expertise. And here I am X number of years later. So I fell into it. But one of the things that was very vital to my success was National Speakers Association. So I joined that and learned about the business because it's a business. Here's the mistake I think people make. They think this is glamorous and it is a business and it's a hard business and it has a high attrition rate. People come in and a couple of years later they're out and they're doing something else. So it's not easy, but it's definitely rewarding and worthwhile.

How do you continue to improve? I mean, it's like any other skill. If you just plateau and don't focus, you don't get better. How do you get better as a speaker? Are there certain speakers you like to watch? Are there certain channels within ted, for example, that you like to watch?

Yes, I do watch the TED talks. I learn a lot from National Speakers Association. I go to their conventions regularly and I watch the best of the best. I take classes. I'm constantly updating my skills and there's Toastmasters. So Anytime I have an opportunity to work on something, I do, and I ask for feedback. And in this business, you can't ride on your laurels. You always have to be learning new and different things, whether it's platform skills or technology. So I'm constantly learning.

Who are the best speakers you've seen in person. You and I have both attended some of the same National Speakers association conventions, and there are speakers there who could just read out of the phone book and you would be on the edge of your seat. And after two hours, you'd want them to go to the next page. But who can you think of as is the best speaker you've ever seen, number one, in person, and number two, just anyone you've ever seen on video.

It's hard to come up with the best, but I don't know if people would know these names. There's Jeanne Robertson, who is a humorist, who is amazing, and she's gone viral on YouTube. I love Les Brown and Lisa Nichols. I think they're very motivating. Lisa Nichols speaks right to your heart. She has an amazing story. So when people have a personal story that is from tragedy to triumph, that is so empowering. So those kinds of people. Gerald Coffey, the POW from Vietnam, was an amazing speaker. I still remember his message today. And there's somebody on ted. I don't remember his name, but he did something very.

I'm curious. You've aroused my curiosity. What is his message?

Well, he talked about when he was captured. He thought one of the things was his brain would turn to mush because he was isolated. But what they did is they created a series of knocks, and it was almost like an Alphabet. And so you had to really use your memory. And that's how they communicated. And there was such a bond between people. He said when someone would get tortured, they'd go back to their cell and you'd hear these knocks of support from the other prisoners. And you just saw the power and the resilience of the human spirit and the bond that happened with people who were captured and going through a tragedy. And it was so empowering that you could live through that and not be bitter and to be able to share that story. So that's what I took away from that. It was just incredible.

Any particular speakers or speeches that you think are just incredibly bad and stand out? I'm not asking you to be mean, but if it's certain public. For me, for example, it's Peter Lowe of the Success Seminars. When I see him speak, I cringe. I Just think he is the worst stereotype, cliche, caricature of the so called motivational speaker. But I want to know, is there anyone that you, you think of who is just the worst speaker? Granted, at some level all bad speeches are the same and that they're, they're boring, dull data dumps. But is there anyone who really stands out to you?

No one person. But it sounds like many of my corporate experiences. When you're dealing with people, especially in technical areas where they're data dumping and reading numbers and they're monotone, I think the worst is when someone, someone is monotone and they don't have any passion for what they're saying and doing. So there's no one person that comes to mind. It's more of a category.

In a moment, I'm going to ask you your opinions on some contemporary political figures as we're recording this. It's just a couple of weeks after the Republican and democratic conventions of 2016. But first I want to know what speakers do you admire and find most interesting throughout the throughout history? Not necessarily ones you've seen in person, but either watch them on video and you can go back and see Teddy Roosevelt speaking on video or even just from history pre video. Abraham Lincoln. Who do you admire the most?

Yeah, certainly Lincoln. But Ronald Reagan, I thought was the ultimate communicator. And of course it had to do with his acting background, but the way that he could, he was so approached, approachable, he knew how to use the media. You'd see certain backdrops and he'd be standing there with a beer toasting the common man and you felt like he was one of you. Whether you like him or not, as a president, as a communicator, you can't fault him. He really was very effective in the way he did that. I thought J.F. kennedy, John F. Kennedy was a pretty good speaker. Obama's speech at the Democratic National Convention before he was president was amazing. And I remember when I first saw that, I said that's the first African American president. And that's what happened. So the power of speaking is so impactful, people don't realize, and I often say that speaking is the new competitive advantage. You can no longer be without this skill. It's a leadership skill. So those are some of the people throughout history. Usually it's someone who has a compelling story to tell. And the ultimate, my ultimate favorite, which you'll probably say is predictable, is Martin Luther King. I still tear up when I hear his I have a Dream speech. And I think that talks right to the heart.

And all of those speeches, of course, you can find, if not all of them, huge chunks of them on YouTube. So I'd urge all of our listeners to check those out in more detail. You just mentioned something about a competitive advantage. And I want to ask you, following up from your discussion about being a speech pathologist and being in the schools, I've always thought it was frankly bizarre that schools spend so much time on someone who has a problem, a lisp, a speech impediment, and yet no time, for the most part, is given to students who don't have a particular problem but have just never learned to speak. Well. I think it's frankly an atrocity that our public schools and private schools don't actually teach people to speak in the same way they teach people to write, because most people are going to do a lot more speaking in their career than writing. Just wondered if you had thoughts on that.

TJ you are preaching to the choir. In 2004, I started a confidence for seventh grade girls in Staten island and I ran three of them. They were eight week classes. They were an hour each and we met on the weekends. It was my community service because I didn't really charge much. But I realized I don't think that they're doing this in the school. And if they are, they're not doing it as well. And these girls ended up giving feedback like adults because I didn't dumb it down. I gave them what I give my adults. I did a quasi job interview with them. They knew how to handle their self on a platform. It was amazing. And you're so right. I see people lose opportunities, lose sales, lose promotions because they can't communicate and present themselves.

You mentioned the public speaking for girls, differentiation by sex. There's a lot of debate on whether audiences perceive male female speakers differently. Certainly there is sexism in the world. Let's shift now to the world of politics. Certainly there is a lot of sexist attacks on Hillary Clinton, but I do think it is possible to criticize certain aspects of her speaking without it being sexist. I've shared with my own audience my feelings throughout the years of how Hillary speaks, what she does well, what she does poorly. I saw some specific improvements in her 2016 Democratic convention speech, but I still see one big problem she has. But first, I want to get your assessment on Hillary Clinton's speaking skills. Then we'll switch over and give equal time to Donald Trump.

So let me say this because I want to address sexism. I think speaking is an equal opportunity skill. You are not being sexist when you analyze someone's speech. She has some challenges as a speaker, and it has nothing to do with being a woman. And one of the issues she has is she does not communicate warmth and approachability and trustworthiness. Now, when I've seen her off the platform and she's talking in interview, you see a different of her, but for some reason, she hasn't been able to transfer that to the main stage. I saw one of her speeches and I really wanted to listen to it, and I turned it off in less than five minutes because she was yelling at us. And that's the issue. How do I know she's working with someone? Because somebody has said something about her screeching and she has now become more conversational. That is a big issue for her, and that has nothing to do with being a woman. That is her style.

I agree. Although it is interesting because I have criticized her for years for yelling. And I've always pointed out, well, that's not sexist. That was a problem Al Gore had. In order to show passion, he would yell, and she did it. Now Bernie Sanders yells, Donald Trump yells. And I've also criticized them for the. That my biggest. I'm interested in your take. My biggest critique of Hillary Clinton's 2016 speech is number one big improvement on not yelling, because there is a microphone and there are speakers. But where I falter is she is now still speaking at the same speed and the same volume. And even though it's not yelling, the space between each word is the same. And it sounds like me right now. And that is robot. And that's the problem.

That's exactly right.

In normal conversation, sometimes you go a little faster, sometimes slower, sometimes you pause. And her speed is so consistent and volume is consistent that even though she's no longer yelling at us, it sounds mechanical. And that's a problem.

Yes. And I say that she is stuck in a 60s activist style. So when you were at a college campus and we are going to take over the hall and we're. She's using that style and it's not contemporary. It doesn't work. And you're not relating. So what's changed is the market, the society. What's valued right now is authenticity. People want to know who you are as a person. They want to feel like you understand them. They want you to have a conversation with them. And that's what Trump did so well in the beginning. He was not scripted. He was saying whatever he wanted to say. And people were resonating. Whether you like his message or not, his style was resonating, and she has a problem doing that. She seems to need to be scripted.

So let's switch gears now and talk about Donald Trump, not his media skills and the whole campaign, but let's just focus on his convention speech in 2016, because so many of our listeners did see specifically that one.

I wasn't as impressed with that. I think he's very good on his feet. He's not as good when he's doing something as, well, formal. I don't know what your opinion is, but I didn't like it as much.

I thought he yelled more than usual. I mean, my assessment of Trump in general is that he does many things well. He exudes confidence. He's consistently interesting. He consistently, depending on your point of view, uses humor. He has an unpredictability to him. So all of those things are good as a speaker. And I'm not talking about any particular political ideology or policy. There's just those are things that are inherently good as a speaker. Where I have faulted him traditionally is he yells and he's flat and he's a type of monotone, and he doesn't sound conversational. And I thought he yelled more than ever through his convention speech.

Exactly. So when he was scripted or doing something more formal, that's what came out. But when he. He was not doing that in the earlier times, and he was just talking off the top of his head, he had a lot more variety. He was more humorous. It was easier to listen to.

But certainly especially young people, this is their first convention, their first political season. People are watching speakers at the Democratic convention and the Republican convention, figuring out who they like. Who were your influences as a child, as a young adult, as a communicator? Did you even watch political conventions, for that matter?

I really didn't. But I know when Kennedy first came up, it was a big excitement. I won't tell you what age I was, but, yes, I followed him and I thought he was a good speaker, but again, I was not that old, so I did not follow Kennedy as a child. We were not really a very political family, but I would say Kennedy, the Kennedys were the greater influence as a younger person.

And now, many decades later, how would you say you're different as a communicator than you were earlier in your career? I mean, we all continue to evolve. Sometimes we lapse into bad habits, sometimes we get a lot better. How are you different now as a communicator than, say, when you were 15 or 23.

I'm so much more confident and I know what the skills are. I know how to recover if something goes wrong and I'm very aware. I know how to critique and how to help people to do it as well. So it's something that continually evolves. I think I've gotten better at telling stories and feeling more comfortable on the platform and being able to go where the audience needs me. So when you first start out, you, you're very scripted in the sense that you came to say something and you say it the way you practiced it. Sometimes when I'm up there, if something happens, I'll talk to the audience at that moment and go off message and then come back because I know what my message points are. So I'd say it's a skill level and a confidence level that comes with experience.

In a minute, Diane, I'm going to ask you to share with us your best story and if it's your so called signature story, which is popular reference point among professional speakers. Reminder to our audience, you're listening to Speaking with TJ Walker, our guest Diane Diresta. She's the author of Give Fear the How to Knock out Fear of Public Speaking. It's available on Amazon, the Kindle Edition. It's less than a price of a cup of coffee. I'd recommend you pick it up right away. This show is brought to you in part by Media Training Worldwide. For all of your in person as well as online media training, public speaking courses and workshops, please go to mediatrainingworldwide.com Diane let's hear whether you think it's your best story, your favorite story or your signature story.

Well, I don't know if this would fit into any of those three categories, but one of the things I do to address the fear in the room when people are being trained by me on press presentations, I want them to know that I've been where you are. I did not start out being confident. So I often tell the story of my freshman year in college where I was excited to be there and all I needed was a three credit course in order to be a full time student. The problem was I was closed out of everything because we were low man on the totem pole. So I was frantically looking for one more three credit course. And then I say to the audience guess what course was open? And they all say public speaking. I said yes, but I didn't care. I was just so happy that I was going to have this full time status. So then fast forward. I'm in class the first day, and I'm looking around and I'm seeing all these upperclassmen. And now I'm feeling very intimidated. But I'm still happy that I am in school and I'm going to have this freshman year experience. And then the day comes when it's my turn to get up and speak. And so I get up and I sit on the edge of the professor's desk, feeling that will brace me. And as I'm introducing myself, I start to get more nervous. And I know people have said sometimes they're talking and the more they talk, the more nervous they feel. That happened to me. And I just told myself, well, maybe nobody will notice. And all of a sudden, as I'm wrapping up, I hear this stage whisper in the back of the.

The room.

It's a woman. And she says, look, her shoulders are shaking. Well, I wanted. This is a true story. I wanted to jump under that desk and never return. So the end result of this was I made it through the class. I did get a B. And I say to people, you can see I was not a standout. I didn't know then that I would be doing this for a living. And if you had told me, I would have laughed at you. So the point of the story is that you don't know what's in you and that speaking is a skill and anybody can be effective. And that's one of my messages, that gifted speakers are born, but effective speakers are made. And I like to start with that story so that people are put at ease and they don't think, oh, well, she's really good. I can't be like her. Yes, you can. Anybody can.

Okay, stop. That was a story. Let's analyze what you did. Because what I hear from clients all the time, I'm sure you hear it is, oh, T.J. you know, I love stories. Stories are great. I love speakers that use stories. But I never tell stories. And besides, I'm just talking about xyz. I contend, as I assume you do, that all human beings tell stories. And you can use a story to make any point. Let's deconstruct what you just did, how you did it, the elements, the setting, the dialogue, the change of tone. Analyze your own story for us.

Well, I set it up and I told you the why. Why I tell this story and where I do it so that you have context. I took you through the experience as if I were there. I was reliving it. I'm a freshman. I'm excited. I have one course, and I'm closed out. So I'm creating the structure of speech where there's not the tragedy, but the problem, the obstacle. And then I talk about what I do to resolve it. I accept the three credit course, even though it's public speaking. I use a little interaction, asking people to give me the answer. And then I told the rest of the story, setting it up, how I was there. And I'm feeling nervous just like that. I'm changing my tone. I'm trying to let them feel that I'm nervous. And then I actually changed roles so that they could hear the person the way they said that her shoulders are shaking. You heard the whisper. And then I came back to normal voice and told them the point of the story, that anybody can be effective. And that is one of my sound bites. Gifted speakers are born, effective speakers are made.

And I just heard you say that speech, but I'm not remembering your words. I'm actually seeing it. I'm seeing you on that desk. I'm seeing your shoulders shake. I'm seeing this woman turn and say her shoulders hurt. Which, of course, is the ultimate power of any story, is your forcing your audience to visualize what you're talking about. So, well done. But here's what I'm even more interested in. How do you convince clients, other people, trainees, to tell stories if they're telling themselves? Well, you know, Diane, I'm just giving the quarterly results of our numbers. How do you convince people to tell stories who are telling themselves? This is just a business presentation, and I don't tell stories.

What I do is I ask them not to talk about their business presentation. Tell a story. It can be anything. A vacation. You took an embarrassing moment, the birth of a child. And people love that. They love it. Everybody gets up and they tell a story, and then they're very engaged, they're animated, they're getting good feedback. So that is the beginning of. Of the impact of storytelling, that you can tell a story. And then I sometimes help them craft their stories just by asking questions. So give me an example. What happened here? Well, why was that important? Well, what was the end result? Here's something that works very effectively for telling stories. I give them a template, and I call it car, and it stands for challenge, action, result. So what was the challenge before you? What was the action that you took? And then what was the result of those actions? And that puts it in a little bit of a framework so they can start to plug in the information. So that's how I work with People who say they don't tell stories.

So in that story, you talked about not a speaking disaster, but certainly something filled with tension. Since you've been a professional and at this, you know, charging money, what's the worst speech that's ever happened to you? I mean, I certainly have. I've fallen off a stage. I've been booed off a stage. I've had a host pull a gun on me on the air.

Oh, my God.

But. But this show is about you. Tell me about your worst speaking experience.

Well, now I'm feeling blessed. I'm feeling like I've lived a charmed life compared to you. You know, I thought about this and. And I'm trying to remember what was the worst speech, and I can't recall one in particular. There are moments where I've lost my train of thought. Or when the technology dies. That's the worst. Or when I'm not getting a reaction from the audience. Where you're feeling like, just let me get through this. Where either it's too basic. I think that would be it. Where the client told me, well, do what you did at the other organization. I get in there, and then you get like this polite kind of clapping, and you know that something's not right. And then you find out later, well, they thought it was too basic. So that kind of thing. But have I ever fallen off a stage? No, but I have knocked coffee on a desk as I'm talking in front of a classroom, trying to think of other things that have happened. I know they have. My worst nightmare is when the technology crashes. That's the worst.

No fun. It's happened to us all. Let's switch gears, though. Let's talk about your best speech ever. Many professional speakers, politicians, others, will often say, the biggest thing that happened in my life is this one speech. Certainly President Obama would say his 2004 speech, there's no question about it. You look at far back as Abraham Lincoln. It was definitely his series of speeches with Stephen Douglas in the Senate campaign preceding his presidential election that really solidified his national reputation and helped him get the Republican nomination. Many professional speakers, I've heard them. I'm sure you have, too. At the National Speaker Speakers association will say, you know what? There was this one speech I gave 17 years ago, and from that I got six clients, and three of them today still make up 60% of my business. Do you have any one speech like that? Whether it was just how you resonated with the audience or the clients that flowed from it, that really stands Out.

Well, I remember speaking at the Philadelphia chapter of National Speakers association on how to handle difficult audiences. And I was really shocked when I finished. I got a standing ovation. And I remember somebody from the chapter said, we're very stingy with our standing O's. I was really blown away because I did not expect that. And I remember another time when I was talking on communication styles. It was at some conference. A woman came up to me and said, do you do this in companies? I said, yes. Are you free May 17th? Yes. Okay, great. You're hired. Now, when you get back to your office, send me a proposal that was my ultimate favorite client of all time. It was no work. She just came right up, booked me on the spot, and I love that. So those are two things that came to mind right away.

And that is, frankly, the ultimate power of speaking is it gives you tremendous credibility. It allows for people to come to you. You've essentially already auditioned. There's zero cost, and ideally, you're getting paid in the process. More and more people, certainly in the last 10 or 15 years, who never thought of themselves as professional speakers because they were running insurance companies or they were running a medical devices company, now see, public speaking is an important part of their marketing, and they need to be out there.

I talk to people about speaking as a marketing skill, and I call it speak to sell. And sometimes it happens instantly, like that example I gave you. And sometimes it takes a few years. I spoke at the National Investor relations association in 2005. I met the CFO of a company there in Egypt, and we were passing ships in the night. We exchanged cards. Two years later, that Egyptian company was looking for someone to work with their executive team, and she said, try her. And I was there for two weeks. It was a very lucrative assignment, a wonderful experience. And that came from one free speaking engagement. So I would definitely encourage everybody, develop your platform skills and get out there and speak to be visible. By the way, going back to gender and sexism, I always say that money and public speaking are the two equalizers in life. If women want to get more visibility, go out and speak, because people are going to see you in action, and then you're going to be hired. So, absolutely, this is a tremendous marketing tool, but you need to have to be able to do it well.

And Diane, you speak not only in front of live audiences, large audiences from the platform, small groups in a training situation, but also to the media. I mean, Diane has been everywhere. You've probably seen her on CNN or quoted in the Wall Street Journal, the New York Times. Tell us about your best and worst media opportunities and interviews you've had.

My best was when I was featured on cnn. That was a plum gig. What happened was I had created a course called how to get anyone to return your voicemail, and it was in the Learning Annex. For those of you who don't know, at that time, these were courses that were put out to the public and anyone could attend. And what happened is it went out to a million people and the publicist would look at this. So Jeanne Mose from CNN saw it, called me up and said, we'd like to come in and film your class. And that's what happened. And it was such great publicity, I couldn't have asked for better. So that was my best, my worst.

She has a huge following. I mean, she's. For those of you who haven't seen her, she's always funny, quirky, doing features. And I was lucky enough to be interviewed by her when I put out my DVD on how to speak like Obama. And she's.

She's great.

Interesting tidbit about her, though. She told. I mean, here's a woman who speaks to millions all over the globe daily. And because she's seen, not only on cnn, but her pieces, at least at the time, were syndicated on broadcast stations, you know what she told me during the interview says, oh, my gosh, I can never. I could never get up and give a speech to, you know, 500 people. I would be scared to death. So it's amazing that the boxes people put themselves in, oh, I can speak to millions. That's easy. That's just showing up. But standing up in front of people, that's really difficult. And in fact, there really shouldn't be any difference. But to me, it shows. Everybody has some place of speaking that takes them out of their comfort zone where they don't feel secure.

Well, I often ask people what size audience causes you to have nervousness? So sometimes it'll be, well, I can speak to three to five, but after it gets past five, I get nervous. So when we go back to that YAM formula, know yourself, know your audience, know your message, know yourself. What's the trigger point for your nervousness? Because that's going to help you get to the next level of confidence.

Any bad media interviews stand out for you?

Yeah, I. One was a radio interview when my book Knockout Presentations first came out, and the interviewer asked me a question I really couldn't answer, and he hung right up on me and I heard, oh, yeah, and Then I heard the News. Okay, it's 8:05. I thought, ooh, I better be better prepared next time. So that was my worst.

Okay? And as I always tell people, there are very few interviews that will end your career. Although that has happened to me. I have been fired for something I said. The real power of the media is being out there regularly and creating a body of work. Because I'm sure what happens to you happens to me, too. Someone is looking for someone in our field. They fish around our website. They might not call us for six months, but they're looking for clues. So when they see that you've been on CNN and quoted in the New York Times and the Wall Street Journal, it helps them build their comfort level. Even if they don't read or see the articles or stories, it builds their comfort level to get them to the point where they'll even call you.

That's right. It's credibility. And you know what's interesting when you talk about media experiences. In 2007, I was interviewed by the New York Times and the article was called unlike, you know, calling the speech coach. I believe TJ had one quote. Do you know, to this day, 2016, I still get calls because they found me in that article. Because if you Google speech coach, that article comes up in the top 10. And when I say, how did you find me? Oh, I googled speech coach. Was it the New York Times article? Oh, yeah, that's right. So my SEO could never compare with the New York Times. So that's the power of media.

And that's a perfect example of why how long an interview is completely unrelated to how well it goes and the benefits you get. I mean, I've had clients, I'm sure you have too, who say, well, I don't want to do that three minute radio interview unless it's an hour or unless it's going to be for a front page story in the Wall Street Journal. I don't want to do it.

It's amazing.

I don't know how long the interview went for you, but even if it happened in 60 seconds, you're still reaping dividends.

One quote in a whole article, one quote, and people find me from that quote and they call me and actually, I want to comment on what you just said about 60 minutes versus 3. If I have a choice, I want a short audio or video. Three to five minutes, I find is more powerful than a longer one. Only when you're promoting something. I don't know if you found the same, but you get People interested and then they call or they look for your book. But if you're spending an hour talking about one book, it becomes more like a training session. So I'd rather have shorter anytime. This is a different kind of interview, so please don't take that personally. I love what you're doing about the deconstructing. And we're not talking specifically about my book, but I'm talking about when you're just promoting one product. I prefer shorter.

Okay, let's delve into, I guess, the seamy underside of public speaking advice, because I'm sure you hear it all the time. I know I do. There is so much bad advice out there. I'm not asking you to name names, but what's some of the worst advice that you hear people dispensing about public speaking? I mean, I see everything from a guy on the Internet who says, tap your face a gazillion times and you'll be a much better speaker and not have fear. I mean, there's beta blockers. There's so many. I want to hear your take on this.

I think the worst advice is when they try to tell people to be something they're not or that they have one panacea. There is no panacea. I think that you have to tell people to be who they are and honor that. First of all, I also hear advice such as, well, scan the room, look all over the place. And that's old school. You don't want to do that. You don't want to look at a point on a wall. You want to connect with people eye to eye. So some of those things. Or hold a pen in your hand if you're nervous. Well, what happens is people start clicking. It becomes a distraction. Better to hold a remote and advance your slides. So I hear some of those old school techniques that people say, which are not effective as far as the tapping, you better not be doing that while you're on the platform. But anything that helps you to be more confident before the fact. I'm open to all and new techniques, but when someone says, this is the way to do it, no, here are the guidelines. Take what works and leave the rest. But always be true to who you are. Now, that doesn't mean, oh, well, I'm naturally a monotone, so I should be a monotone. No, because that's not effective. But don't try to be Tony Robbins because you'll be ridiculous. Just be a better you. Show a little bit more animation, find your passion about something, get more excited.

You mentioned Tony Robbins, I do think he's a good public speaker. I, I think a lot of his message is great. I've been to his events before, but to me there's nothing worse than seeing a beginning motivational speaker, obviously trying to copy Tony Robb. I think you need influences and you need to watch and respect and find the speakers you do respect. But when you're saying something with the same style and the same message, it just is a very quick turn off. Any thoughts on that?

Nobody wants a carbon copy of somebody else because they might as well go for the real thing. You can't be somebody that you're not. You can take things that you like and adopt them, but to be a clone of somebody, it doesn't work. And when I'm speaking to people and I'm training them to be presenters, I'll see say to them, I don't want you to be automatons in the diresta technique. Take these skills, use them and adapt them, but be who you are.

What's the ultimate tip? I mean, what I tell people is you can ignore all my advice, but all I really care about is when you're done speaking, ask your audience, what messages do they remember? What slides do you remember? If they remember the messages that were important to you, you succeeded if they tell you or if they say something, oh, tj, you were great today. You were fantastic. You're really charismatic. You're a real pro. If someone tells that to me, then I know I was a complete utter failure. And very few people are willing to test. But it's, it's simple, it's easy, it costs nothing.

You know what the ultimate is? If you want to know how well you really did, you go into the restaurant. Because people will say what they really think. And I remember one time I was in the restroom and I heard a woman say of me, I thought she was a really good speaker. But I don't public speak. So what she was really saying is it doesn't apply to me. And I wanted to shake her because we're all public speakers. And when people say they're not, I ask them, do you give updates at meetings? And they'll say yes. Do you leave voicemails? Yes. Well, that's public speaking. So one of my missions is to redefine what public speaking is. And once you do that, people get it. But the misconception is that speaking or public speaking is standing on a stage in front of 50 to 100 people and giving a formal speech. That's only one aspect. So I would say, yes, test your audience, and if they can give you the messages that you intended, that's a true success.

There does seem to be a lot of confusion over terminology. I mean, one of the things I do, whether I'm giving a speech or doing a training, is I tell people, look, I'm going to use interchangeably the terms public speaking, presenting, panel discussion, talking. I just really mean anytime. For the most part, you're talking to more than one person. And it's not just idle chit chat about the TV show and that helps frame it. But a lot of people do have this idea of, oh, oh, I, because I'm not standing on a stage, because I'm talking to 10 people in my office and not 20 people outside. I'm not a public speaker. And then that gives them, that lets them off the hook. They don't need to learn new skills, they don't need to prepare. How do you battle that?

Simply, as I said, I, I reframe what it is. So if they're admitting that they give meeting updates and they leave voicemails, then they are speakers. And we work on those skills. And you know what? It's all public speaking. I say that life is a presentation and that we are always on stage. And when you have good speaking skills, you are managing your brand. So speaking has come out of the closet in the sense that it's really about brand reputation and brand building. And people understand now that you have to have a personal brand. And do you want people telling you what your brand is or do you want to tell them this is how you manage it by the way that you present yourself, how you speak, how you communicate.

Dan, any other simple advice you have for people that is rarely followed. The simplest advice I give to people, people is you want to get over your fear of public speaking. You want to be great. Just keep practicing your speech on video until you love it. No one ever does that unless they hired you or me to stand in front of them. But it actually is simple advice. I want to know from you what is your simplest advice that actually does work but that most people just don't follow?

It's what you said. I tell people, record yourself on your phone or an audio. Listen to yourself. And the other thing that I do is, I say have an accountability partner because that makes them accountable to take the next step. Choose what goal you want to work on, whether it's getting rid of ums or slowing and pausing, and then have a buddy who will point that out to you during a meeting or Give you feedback afterwards, and then they're on their way, then they're making progress.

And what's your recommendation on accountability partners? Because sometimes family can be brutally honest in a way that's helpful, sometimes it's not. I mean, I can give a speech and my wife will say, oh, T.J. you look, you're bald. You're getting more bald. Well, that's not going to help, but I have to give my wife a lot of credit. She was watching me give an interview at ABC3, four years ago, and she said, TJ, you started every answer with well. And I said, that's ridiculous. You're being hypercritical. Maybe. I said one. And I went back and I looked at the tape and sure enough, it was six answers, six wells. And I did what I do for my own clients, which is I typed up the word, I put an international red no stamp on top, and then I taped it on top of my cell phone and computer. And a few weeks later, I drastically reduced the well. So sometimes someone really close can be helpful. What is your advice to people on who is the best accountability partner?

The best accountability partners are the ones who have come through some kind of training, coaching, or intervention together because you're speaking the same language. And this is how we create change in organizations. Because if enough people come through, through the training, coaching, speaking experience, they're now talking the same language. And my approach, T.J. as with you, is to make people their own coach. So now they have the skill set to do that. And I have to tell you, when I worked with those seventh grade girls, they were doing that, they would in the classroom, point and say, you're crossing your legs, stand up straight. They knew the skills and they were coaching each other other. So those are the best people who have been through a similar experience. You do have to be careful with family, especially teenagers. They can be brutal, but they can be pretty honest and insightful. So somebody who really knows what to look for and who will be honest with you.

Diane, every good speech, every good media interview should have a call to action. What is it you want the audience of this show to do?

I want the audience of this show to know that they can all be effective speakers. And I want to help you to do that. One of the best ways you can do that is to go to Amazon and look for give fear the finger. And there are links there that are connected to audios and videos and resources so that you'll be able to be more effective and have tools you can use and implement immediately.

Diane DiResta thank you for being our guest today. The book Again Give Fear the Finger how to Knock Out Fear of Public Speaking. The new Kindle edition is out. It costs less than the cup of coffee on Amazon. Check it out. You can also look at all of Diane's books and training services if you go to diresta.com 3w's d I r e s t a dot com you've been listening to speaking with TJ Walker.

Speaking with TJ Walker is the number one rated daily streaming TV and radio show devoted to all aspects of speaking and communication. If you received value from this show, then please subscribe to it@mediatrainingworldwide.com Please review the show, leave comments and share it with your friends and colleagues. Today.