Frances Rios - Reshaping Our Ideas on How Women Communicate

Speaking with TJ Walker, the show where we dissect how and what world class leaders communicate.

Our guest today is seen regularly on CNN and Univision. That's right, folks. She's twice as smart as I am because she speaks twice as many languages as I do. She is, in fact, bilingual. She's written numerous books. Communication, Business Development and Diversity. Her latest is Reshaping the Lessons Learned from the Boys Club. She's worked for every kind of major corporation from Walmart to Chubb to Starbucks, you name it. She might not be a household name here in New York or in the United States, but in the Caribbean, in Puerto Rico, in Southern Florida, she is, in fact, famous. I think you're going to enjoy the conversation I had today with Frances Rios. Now let's dive in. Frances, thanks for joining me today.

Oh, thank you, TJ and hello from the Caribbean, from Puerto Rico.

Great to be joined by you today. You and I have known each other, I think, for about a decade. You are a longtime member of the National Speakers association, as people heard in the introduction. You speak all over the world. You train, you write books, you do TV assignments, the whole bit. What you're focusing on now is something called reshaping. Reshaping the model. It's a book, it's a workshop, it's all sorts of things. What exactly is it?

Well, we are, as you said, have been known as a reshaper. Okay, and why? Because I help people reshape the way they think regarding, for example, gender or the way they do things or processes or the way they communicate so that they can connect to other ones and have better sales, for example. I also reshape organizations. How? By leading them to be more inclusive. It is proven that when companies promote women inclusion, they have better economic results. So it's about reshaping the way you think, the way you work, and the way companies set themselves so that they can be more inclusive and diverse.

Francis, you're younger than I am, but you didn't just graduate from college yesterday. You've worked in a lot of male dominated environments, corporations over the years. How have things changed? I mean, on one hand, it definitely seems like things have changed since I started in the workplace 30 years ago. On the other hand, and I'm not going to mention his name, this is not a political podcast. But you have one major presidential candidate where it seems as though nothing's changed from the 1950s, and he seemingly gotten a lot of support while openly bragging about judging women purely on their looks, their ability to be grabbed by Any body part he so chooses. How do you square those two sort of divergent views?

Well, it is very interesting because when I was in the corporate world, I saw how women, first of all, didn't dare to go up the corporate ladder and how some members of the Boys club wouldn't allow women to go to the top level, the C level. And when I talk about Boys Club, I don't mean men only. There's also women in the Boys Club, women who think that other women should not be in the boardroom or that other women have not the strength to do something. So the Boys Club, like this person that we are talking about, this candidate, are people who stayed in the 60s and think that women cannot accomplish whatever they want to accomplish. A couple of months ago, I was in Washington D.C. invited by the White House to a very special Congress, which is called the United States of Women. And I remember Biden saying very, very clear that women can do whatever men can do. And nowadays we still have people from the Boys club, but we have come across or we have taken major steps. You know, we have advanced a lot. And mostly thanks to people like Joe Biden and President Barack Obama and Michelle Obama, because with their focus on equal pay and equal work, they have opened the eyes of for many companies and the top executives of those companies.

Now you mentioned specifically the Obamas, and they do a lot to talk about empowering women. And Michelle Obama, like all first ladies, constantly has her wardrobe scrutinized. Every designer, everything she's wearing. Barack Obama has a couple hundred suits and every single one of them is gray or dark blue. I've noticed that myself. I sometimes as a test, and maybe I shouldn't say this, this might be embarrassing, but I. I have a home TV studio. So when I'm making training videos and analysis of the news, I just keep a shirt and a jacket in the closet next to my home studio. I've gone a year without having a different suit, jacket, tie and shirt. And guess what? Nobody notices or complains. I dare say if a woman wore the same thing on TV every day, it would create all sorts of commentary. How is your reshaping dealt with that issue? Specifically, at a tactical level, if something is some way superficial but important as.

Clothing, it is very interesting because whenever it rains in Puerto Rico or wherever I go, I always wear my rubber boots, okay? And if I have a major meeting, I don't care if it's a CEO, I would wear my rubber boots. And I have encountered people who ask me, oh my God, how do you Dare they're not going to give you the contract. And my answer is always the same. If they are going to contract me or hire me based on my boots and my shoes, then they're not the right client for me. And what I mean by this is that since we are kids, the way we are raised by our parents and grandparents, they're constantly putting different stereotypes and ideas on our minds. And that's why when we come to an age like right now, when we are working, people are scrutinizing women completely different than men. Because since we were kids, we always, or we were taught that girls have to always be very well dressed. They have to have the bow on their head, they cannot sweat. And the boys, how do we raise the boys? We raise the boys to go to the park and come back with the shirt all broken, all sweaty, and we don't say anything because they're boys. So right now, companies are hiring me as a speaker so that I can make their people think about those stereotypes that come or that chip that we have on our heads from our early ages and stages in our life. So one of the things is that I work very closely with the companies to eradicate or to eliminate stereotypes from the minds of the people. But another thing that, it's very, very crucial. It's about solidarity. Solidarity. And sometimes women are competing with other ones. And instead of. Instead of, like, joining efforts so that they can both together, be more visible, they start commenting or evaluating or taking judgment on the way other women dress. And right now, that's one of the things that we are doing. We are working very close with women so that instead of, like, judging each other, they can create clusters, networks, so that they can focus on the most important things, which is the business and not the high heels or the shirt.

So how do you actually make an impact? Because people have been talking about diversity since I entered the workforce 30 years ago. And I can remember countless times when I'm in a meeting and every single person in the meeting is a white male. And we're all talking about diversity and our commitment to it, and. And it's sort of awkward, like, how come everyone here is a white guy like me? How do you go into an organization, whether it's through a book, an online course, a workshop, a seminar, and go beyond just the lip service level.

That's a great question. Two things, okay? One of them is that whenever I hear people say, saying that I'm a feminist, I place a stop at it. Why? Because, T.J. i'm not a feminist. I'M focused on the economic growth of our country, of our companies and women. I just want to provide them the right tools regarding empowerment and women inclusion so that they can grow their business and accelerate their business results.

Okay, now I'm curious how. I'm curious as to why you don't like that term. I consider myself a feminist. To me, it simply means someone who believes that the sexes should be treated equally. Men and women are equal and deserve equal treatment. The term has been tarnished a great deal in the US Political context. Conservatives have tried to make that sound like it's a nasty word. But I'm curious as to why it's not an attractive label to you.

Because still today, companies are dominated by men. It is very interesting because when you go to college, the vast majority of the students are female. When you go to the levels of supervisors and directors within companies, the majority are women. When you go up a step and you go to the VPs. I'm sorry, yeah. To the executive VPs, the vast majority are women. But when you go to VPs, CEOs, and the board of directors, what you have is men. And if they are making the business decisions of these companies, they're not going to give me an opportunity if they think I'm just going to be speaking about women or how to empower women. And that's it. Because as business people, their main focus is to accelerate their business results. And it is proven that when you have inclusion, and I have to specify what I mean by inclusion, when you have inclusion, you will get better results. Sometimes tj company owners, male company owners, they tell me, oh, I promote women inclusion. Oh, my God, yes. The vast majority of my employees are women. No, that's not inclusion. That's probably diversity. Why not inclusion? Because most of your women are in the production line or they're like cleaning, or they're like secretaries or there are assistants. Inclusion is when you have women sitting at the table. When you make the most important business decisions that will have an impact on the bottom line of your business. Does that make sense?

Definitely. Definitely.

Okay, so I know what they think. And you know, as an expert in communication, CJ that you have to talk about what people care and what people. What makes sense to people. So if I go just like, say, if I just approach them by saying that I'm just here to empower women, they just see this as a social responsibility effort instead of a business effort or tactic or strategy that will have a direct impact on the bottom line of the business. So that's why I make that approach.

Francis, I'm often asked by women, is there something different about how women need to prepare for speeches? Do you have a different sort of training for women? Is public speaking? Are women judged differently? And here's my stock answer. I suspect you may have a slightly different answer, but my answer is, when you look at all speeches made by business executives, politicians, 98% of them are so boring. Men and women, they're boring data dumps. So if you can just be interesting and memorable, male or female, you're going to stand out as better than 99% of the competition. To me, speaking and presenting is an area that really is an equal playing field. Being physically stronger, having bigger, bigger shoulders, being able to lift more weight, none of that helps you at all. If you're on a stage or a platform or standing in a boardroom in front of a PowerPoint, it really is about your ability to speak and to communicate. So women, I believe, are not at a disadvantage. Now, if we can get into the subtleties of someone picking apart their dress or judging their backside inappropriately, certainly there are side issues there. But to me, it all comes down to, have you narrowed your messages down to a handful? Do you have good stories for each one? And can you talk about it with some passion? Do that, male or female, you're gonna be great. But I want your assessment.

That's very interesting. You know, have you heard of the saying, practice makes perfect?

Sure.

Okay. When you go out to different summits and major events, you see that the platform or the stage is mainly reserved for men. When you go around and you see the ads for different summits and programs, you see that 99 or 98% of the people or the guests invited to the stage are all men. They practice more than men. And when you have, like, major presentations in companies, if you have more men on the top level, they would have more practice and more exposure. So one of the things that I suggest to women is that they need to take risks. They need to dare to ask. They need to push themselves and ask their bosses, hey, I would like a new assignment, and I would like to have the opportunity to present the results and the impact of my project on the business. I would like to present that to the top tier of the company. So you cannot, as a woman, sit down and wait to be asked as if we were, like, 13 years old in a class party. Okay, so you need to ask. Another thing that I always tell women is that men wear a black suit. That's it. It's a nice tie. Black suit, white shirt, and the shoes. And that's about it. Women have to think about the makeup. They have to think about the shoes, the heels, the necklace, everything whatsoever. So they lose perspective and they lose their focus. Instead of focusing on storytelling, on the content, on how to engage with the audience, sometimes they focus more on the way they look. And the funny thing about this is that they just focus about looking fabulous. But that's distracting.

I do agree with you, Francis. Most of the time it is an oddity. This year, 2016, when we're recording this in the presidential campaign, it is the male candidate who gets almost all of the negative attention about hairstyling and makeup, not the female. Now that's not the normal way it goes, but it is. It's an odd political year for many reasons, but that alone.

Yeah, I was looking at him the day before yesterday. It was during these days at the debate. I was looking at his face and he was like shining. The way he looked was not appealing whatsoever. I don't know who his makeup person is, but I would have fired that person a long time ago.

So I certainly agree that the vast majority, 95, 95% of the time when people are commenting on hair, clothes, makeup, they fixate on the women, especially if there's a woman versus a man. But there certainly are exceptions. This year is one and four years ago, Mitt Romney got a lot of attention, which it turns out justifiably. He was doing the Univision debate down in your neck of the woods and he put on excessive tanner and he just, he looked like five shades darker than normal. And he is known as someone who is a huge aficionado of self tanning sprays. And then of course, Al Gore got a lot of attention back in 2000 when one of his advisors suggested that he wear earth tone shirts. And that was mocked. And you know, Sean Hannity and others mocked Al Gore's bald spot. So it is something that affects both sexes. But I agree with you 95% of the time, it seems geared towards females. Do you think there are any differences in how women should prepare or practice or deliver their speeches or presentations?

Couple of suggestions. First of all, wear a solid color. You would look more powerful if like men, if they're wearing a suit, they would look very powerful. Just one bang on stage. And women, if they want to really be noticed on stage, they should wear a solid color. It would be better for the camera as well. And it should be like a bright color. Like, for example, people around the world know that my staple color Is orange. Whenever I'm on stage, I wear something orange. That way I can attract or get the attention of everyone sitting in front of me. Another thing, very important. Heels, high heels. I need to be comfortable. I cannot wear like the skinny heels, shoes. Why? Because I have seen many instances when women are on stage and they get stalked on the stage. Because. Yeah, yeah. And I have seen like fellow colleagues from nsa. A friend of ours, she was on stage, that happened to her. She couldn't get on stuff. And what did she do? She took off her shoes and she kept on going without the shoes.

But I want to make sure I'm getting this straight. You're saying you believe women need to or should wear high heels if you.

Feel comfortable by wearing high heels. I wear high heels, but they're not like extremely high heels. They're like 2 inches high heels. If you wear the ones that are like very thin and very high, you can lose your balance, you can get stuck on stage. So try to wear something that it's not that high, like a 2 inch heel and a shoe that is very comfortable. Forget about the looks, focus about being comfortable. Because if you're not comfortable on that shoe, your face is gonna tell anything.

Else that you think is really different. First of all, do you buy into the premise, other than clothing and makeup, that women are judged differently when it comes to giving presentations, speeches and talks? Some people do think they are. And if so, do you think there's anything else different about how they should deliver their speech, prepare it, package it?

They are being in most instances judged differently. Because also most of the time men are on stage. Okay, that's one of the things. But yes, there are major difference on the way men and women communicate. For example, if you are in the boardroom, okay, what it is expected from you is to go to the point and tell me the numbers and the impact on the bottom line. Men tend to be better on that. Women tend to sugarcoat more, you know, sugarcoat their messages. Okay. In order for them to be like, accepted. So my suggestion always to women is go start with a story, the very powerful story, and then go straight to what matters results and the impact on the bottom line. Another crucial difference that I've noticed also is that men talk about me. I did this, I created this, I organize this. While women talk about their team, they're more focused about speaking regarding us, my team, us. It's about us. So I always tell women, hey, when you were you, if you go to the C level for a meeting, if you go to the boardroom. Talk about your accomplishments. They know that your team was involved. So speak about me just like men do. Okay.

I'm sorry. Go ahead.

No, another thing is that men tend to be. Men tend to explain themselves in a more direct way. And women, they tend to be more apologetic. There are always some. Oh, my God, I'm so sorry I said this. Oh, my God, I'm so excused me. Oh, no, you don't have to ask for any forgiveness or, you know, for pardon. Forget about that. If you committed a mistake, just keep on going. And this is very crucial, tj, What I'm gonna say. People better listen to this carefully. And we have been seeing this in the debates in the United States. Sometimes men in meetings tend to speak over women.

Wrong. Wrong.

Excuse me. Yeah. And the way.

Don't be nasty now.

Nasty women or bad hombre. Yeah, women. And Hillary has been fantastic. I have no other adjective. For her presentations during this debate.

Speaking of Hilary and some of your precepts, I have noticed that she's, for the most part, dressed in solids. Looked like a solid cream pantsuit the other night. By the way, I'm looking at the COVID of. Of your book, Reshaping the Model. And you practice what you preach. You have a nice solid top on. And by the way, those of you interested, there's a link in the show notes to Francis's latest book, Reshaping the Model. Lessons Learned from the Boys Club. You're going to want to check that out.

Yeah. And you could notice we have an advantage over you guys that is that we can dress differently. I don't know if you saw the gala that was held in New York by the Catholic Church.

Trump was in the Al Smith. The annual Al Smith dinner.

Yes, yes. He was in disadvantage. Why? Because he had to wear a black and white tux, just like everyone in the audience. But she was brave, brilliant. She wore this fantastic hot pink fuchsia dress that. That was the only thing that you would see on the screen of your TV or your computer.

And you could say it's an advantage and a disadvantage. Certainly it's an. If you. If you take the opportunity. Women have a much wider birth as far as how they can dress their style, much greater range, range, a lot more diversity. But there's also a much wider range of criticism you can receive. Interestingly, Hillary, I think, is finally settled on a hairstyle that suits her and she keeps it consistent. And that's frankly, my advice to women and men in public life, which is get a hairstyle and just stick with it because any changes are picked apart forever. When health. Hillary Clinton was the first lady of the United States, she changed her hairstyle a lot. And every time it had just wave after wave of commentary and criticism.

Well, you also have to take into consideration, TJ that it also depends on your industry. For example, she's always. She's. Every single day she's on the media.

She.

She is being scrutinized every single second. So I agree with you. She needs to have a constant image. But if you are in a different industry, in the fashion industry, for example, you are in the beauty industry, it's the contrary. You need to be reshaping or reformulating the way you look because it goes along with your industry.

Absolutely.

Okay. Does that make sense?

Sure. Yeah. You need to. What I stress to my clients is your hair, your jewelry, your clothes. Whether you're a man or a woman, it needs to be consistent with people, with what people associate with your industry. If you are a conservative value fund running a mutual fund, you don't want people noticing your clothes. If you are a fashion designer or an artist, an avant garde artist, you want to be different and interesting. Industries are different. Let's talk about industries. Because certainly if you look at the industry like finance, the top hundred compensated people are all men. Basically, if you look at the CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, there are more CEOs named John than there are women CEOs of Fortune 500 companies. But communication is different. If you look at the most highly paid communications person in the world of the last quarter century, I would say that's Oprah Winfrey. It's in fact, dominated by a woman. You look at someone like Martha Stewart, who at least at one point was a billionaire because of her ability to speak. So it truly is a field where men have no natural dominance or advantage over women. I'm curious, other than Oprah, whom I just mentioned, who do you most admire as communicator, female or male?

Wow, that's a very tough question. And I'm gonna tell you why. Because I have been following Hilary Clinton for many, many years. And for me, she is like one of the top communicators, female wise, globally. And when I talk about men, my favorite one so far is Joel Osteen, the preacher. I don't know if you.

You probably know I'm very familiar with Joel Osteen. Many of our regular listeners have heard me reference him before. And by the way, regardless of whether you like his particular religion or his version of religion, if you care about public speaking, I'd urge you to go to YouTube and just watch a five minute clip here or there for him because, well, people have heard why I like him. Tell me why you like Joel Osteen.

First of all, he doesn't scream.

When.

You talk about the Catholic Church. Normally the preachers are known to have this tedious and boring, you know, style of communication. And when you talk more about the evangelical church, they are more into shouting and, you know, sometimes even screaming. And the reason why I love him is that he knows how to intonate. He knows how to walk through the stage. He knows how to give a story without hiding behind the lectern. His tone of voice matches or is synchronized with his face.

And for our listeners who haven't seen him, he speaks at a megachurch in Houston, Texas. And there are. It's a former sports arena where there are more than 20,000 people there. And he uses the conversational tone of voice no different than what you and I are doing now. He sounds like he's talking to one person.

And I have seen him many times, for example, in the Madison Square Gardens in New York. And that's what I was gonna say, what you just said, the Madison Square Gardens were sold out. Okay. I was sitting basically on the middle of the center of the Madison Square Gardens, and I felt as we were speaking by ourselves in the stadium. So when he's not presenting, he's not pushing information. He is having a conversation with the audience. People are always reacting. But one of the most important things regarding him and regarding her is preparation. And she said it yesterday, you know, she was like, yes, it wasn't about drugs. She was talking about. The key to communicate and be an effective presenter is preparation. And Joel Austin, he takes five days to prepare his 30 minute speech on Sunday. So preparation is key. And storytelling, as I learned from you, as a matter of fact, is key.

Here's what strikes me about Hillary and how I think she is dramatically improved as a speaker. Because historically, people always said she was a bad speaker, an awful speaker. And I think she suffered the very, very same problem that Al Gore suffered. And that is in order to be forceful and show passion, she would talk like this, she would project her voice and was annoying. And certainly there's a lot of sexist attacks on Hillary Clinton. I'm not denying that. But I don't think it is sexist to say that she yelled. Now, Donald Trump yells, Bernie Sanders yells, but Bill Clinton never yells. He was conversational. And I think she's done a great especially Ever since the convention, she has done a fantastic job in all three debates and at the convention of really using a conversational tone of voice. Because she was not like that eight years ago.

She has been practicing a lot. And she said it, you know, it's about practice. And that's why we created the Women who Lead Summit. Let me tell you why, when you ask me about a female personality that I would look up to, I said her because she is a constant basically on the media, on the media outlets. Women lack of inspiration right now. Still nowadays when I look to an event, to a summit, for example, I don't feel that inspired. Why? Because all I see is men on stage and I cannot relate. That is why we created the Women who Lead Summit, which is a one day summit not only for women. Company presidents go like in huge amounts because the event, the only thing that is 100% women is the stage. We make sure that we bring the best female talent from around the world to share best global business practices with a female perspective. That's it. And I want women to help other women be better at presenting, be less judgmental. And also I would like to dare women to dare to take more risks on stage.

And what is your perception of the. Because it's been a while since I've been you and I first met at the National Speakers association, oh a decade ago, but I haven't been in five or six years. What's the makeup of the organization? It used to be, I would guess about 65% male. So I want to know what your sense is of the, the gender makeup overall. But as far as like the people who really are making a lot of money, not that that's the only sign of importance or significance. What's the breakdown of men versus women?

It's still more men. But this is the interesting thing, and I have to go back a second to one of your previous comments regarding the corporate world and being basically dominated by men. Okay. And then you mentioned Oprah Winfrey. Women have noticed that it is very hard to go up the corporate ladder. So we have seen a new phenomenon. Nowadays more women are becoming entrepreneurs. And in my book I always tell women, go where your voice is heard, where your ideas are celebrated and a place where you are promoted. If you don't find a place if where you are right now, it's not like that. There are plenty of companies who would love to have you as their best female talent. Go to where your voice is heard. And that's why nowadays we are seeing more, more and more Globally, we are seeing more and more female entrepreneurs creating their own businesses and we are talking about billion dollar businesses.

And let me just have a little learning moment here. Timeout. What Frances just did was very skillful. It wouldn't be appropriate to talk about it in any other show, but this is the show to talk about it. Since this is a communication show. Notice how she skillfully weaved in a reference to her book. She wasn't obnoxious about it. She didn't say, you know, reshaping the model. Go to Amazon now. Buy, buy, buy, buy. She weaved it in perfectly within the context of the conversation about extra value things that she talks about in her book, reshaping the model. So very well done. Have to say thank you.

I learned from the bell.

And we should point out many, many years ago, you did come to one of my seminars, but you were, you were a talent before then. I take no credit for the fact that you now speak all over the world. You have, you're regularly seen on cnn, on Univision. And that leads to my next question. I want to know both your best media appearances. What happened? How did you prepare? Why did it work so well? But also what was your worst media appearance and what happened?

The best one, I think, was a recent one. It was with CNN in Espanol, CNN in Spanish. They have a major personality or tv, you know, TV personality. His name is Kala. C A L A L A. He's like the Anderson Cooper for CNN in English, but he is the Anderson Cooper version in the CNN in Espanol. I did an extremely powerful interview. If you go to YouTube, you can see on my website, you can see the interview. And it doesn't matter if you don't understand Spanish.

We'll link to that in the show notes. Just send that to me after.

Yes, thank you very much. Because why many things. I was extremely well prepared. The way I was dressed was very powerful as well. And I really provoked a very strong connection with Karla, with this gentleman. So I think that in order for us to be very effective on tv, you need to have your points and, and repeat them over and over. You need to wear a solid color, bright color, so that you can look more powerful. You have to create a relationship or some chemistry with the person interviewing you. And one thing that I did, and this is a tip for women, basically, is that my neck was open. You could see my neck and. And my chest, the top of my chest. So I was like, hey, Francis, you don't know the questions that he's gonna Ask you. So if he takes you out of your comfort zone, you don't want the audience to see it by turning red. So what I did was that I put makeup all over my face, my neck and the top of my chest so that I would get nervous or something would happen. No one would notice it because they wouldn't be able to notice that I turned red.

Great tip. Not something I've had to think about, to be quite honest, since I usually have a tie on and no one's even remotely interested in my chest. That does beg the question, though. I wasn't going to. Wasn't a question I planned. But what is your advice to women? Because I do see professional women in professional situations sometimes. And again, I'm not a prude. I don't want to sound like I'm being a censor, but their shirt or their blouse or their dress is so low cut that it's just human nature. You get distracted. And there was even once a clip, this was maybe five years ago, of Hillary Clinton or something, and it got repl over and over again. So what is your advice to women on that and length of dress and skirt?

Focus on what you're selling. Focus on what you're selling. I'm selling the content I'm selling. I want them to change or transform the way they think or act. Regarding, for example, daring to ask. It's about the audience, it's not about me. So my wardrobe is very powerful. If you go to my website, you can see all my clothing in orange. They attract the attention. But once your eyes are on me, then you focus on my storytelling and my content. So I always tell women, think about what you're selling. You are not selling your legs. You are not selling how pretty you are. You're selling a product. Focus on that product.

Sage advice. You've had a lot of good experiences and you've made that jump from being someone who's interviewed to being occasionally interviewed, to being regularly interviewed, to then hosting your own segment. So you've jumped up many, many legs on the whole media food chain. Can you think of your worst experience? And I hate to dredge up negativity, but I can tell you, my audience, they love it. Hearing me talk about my fiascos. I've been booed off stage, I've been hung up on, I've been cursed at on the air. I once had a host pull a gun on me on a talk radio show. What was the worst media experience you ever suffered?

I'm going to tell you one media and One stage. Okay. Is that okay with you?

Sure.

Okay, let me start with the stage. And this happened to me a couple of weeks ago. I was a keynote speaker at the Forbes Magazine Most Powerful Women Summit in the Dominican Republic. I was looking very powerful. I had the audience with me. They were like 100% engaged, and suddenly I blacked out.

Oops.

Yeah.

What did you do?

I suddenly blacked out. Thank God. To preparation. Thank God that I prepared very well and that I always have a conversation with the audience. So instead of looking, like, all confused, I went down the stage and I asked one of the ladies in front of me. So tell me, if you answer this question correctly, I will give you my book. What do you remember from my last point? And she told me what I just previously said, and then I gave her my book and I got an applause.

So from the audience's standpoint, everything was great, right?

Yeah. Nobody noticed anything whatsoever.

That's a great recovery technique.

Okay.

But I'm not going to let you off the hook. I want to know about a speech where it was obvious to the audience this just was not great. Because again, I've been booed off stages, and maybe that's never happened to you, but certainly there must be something that's happened that stood out and can now be a learning moment.

You have to allow me to think about it because. Because I really, from the top of my mind, I cannot think of a moment. I cannot think of a moment. TV wise. TV wise. I have done, as, you know, for many years. I was known as the Tylenol because I used to eliminate or get rid, to help top executives get rid of a headache, of a media crisis. And I remember that I took a client that I shouldn't have taken, and it backlashed to me many years later on. If you're gonna go to the media, you better sit down. And that's what I do right now. I always think about that reporter as my worst enemy. It could be my best friend because I have very good friends among the media in Puerto Rico and in the States and in other countries. But regardless my relationship, I always think that they are to get me, that they don't like me. And I would think about the questions they would make in order for them to make me look bad. And I really prepare myself with those answers so that I would, you know, I prevent or I minimize the possibility of looking bad or awkward on tv.

So what happened with this, with this bad client? You shouldn't have taken it. In a moment, I'm going to ask you what's your criteria for a bad client and why should you not have taken this one? But what happened?

I cannot talk too much about that client.

In particular, we don't have to mention names. That's okay.

Yeah. What I can tell you is that in Puerto Rico, where I'm from and in other American countries, I have been known for my abilities to handle crisis crises with a global impact. So when this organization had a major explosion here, the number one person that they thought, the first one on the list was me, because I was basically the only one with the global expertise. But I should have thought more carefully about the reputation of the company. And if you're going to be the face, if you're going to be the person representing a company, you better be extremely sure that is it worth it. Because reputation is not something that you build in one presentation or one media interview. Reputation is something that you have been building up throughout the years. And by representing a company or by building being the spokesperson of a company, if you didn't make sure that the reputation and the way they work with their stakeholders, it's not, you know, top or positive, don't work with that client, don't represent their clients, don't put your name and reputation in danger for someone else. It's not welcome money.

Now, it does beg the question though, in times of crisis, certainly corporations, governments, politicians reach out to crisis experts like you and like me, but do you feel that it's appropriate for them to use outsiders as spokesperson? Now, I've served as a spokesperson for companies before, but not during a crisis. But I always follow the adage that during a crisis, if there is really something that could have a long term damage to an organization's national, international reputation, the CEO has to be the spokesperson. And to farm it off on a PR person or an outside consultant, even if their message is great, even if they have the best communication skills in the world, still sends a message to the world that those who are accountable are hiding. I'm just interested in your thoughts there.

I agree with you totally, 100%. But we have to take decisions based on what we have ahead on that occasion. Particularly not the CEO, not the second in command or in Puerto Rico. Indeed, one was in an airplane 16 hours. He was like flying from, I don't remember, he was going to Africa. The other one was on his way to Japan. So there was no one else. And the company here, there was nobody whatsoever prepared to encounter the media. So in that situation, short term, you were it. I was the one. I was the one. But normally, what I suggest to, you know, to my clients, first of all, they need to prepare. They cannot wait until they have the crisis knocking at their door to start working on their media abilities. They have to hire you, for example. They have to work with you in advance because a crisis is a crisis. You don't know when it's going to get here. So companies need to be more savvy. If they really have a major interest on their bottom lines, they need to invest, not spend. They need to invest on a media crisis training like the one that you give. There are other some instances, for example, that in order for me to protect my client, it was more strategic and intelligent for me to take the attention away from them. It was a major crisis in Puerto Rico. It could affect a whole industry. And it was about this lady who unfortunately got killed here in the island. And she got killed not in the facilities of my client instead of a public road. So we didn't want our client to be on the media talking about the story because then the name of his company would appear on the media.

Makes sense.

Does that make sense?

That's a tough situation.

So in that case, I was representing them without saying the company name, and I was in media outlets, China in England, you name it, but without mentioning the client's name. And we shout without harming the reputation because at the end of the day, they had nothing to do with the situation.

Hey, Francis, in our remaining time, I want to get your thoughts on the future. You've been around communicating for decades, but you're still a young person. I hope that you're around another 60 years communicating. Whether it's books, whether it's traditional TV networks, whether it's speaking from the platform, webinars, online podcast. Where do you really see the future going as far as your primary means of being able to communicate with people and which medium excites you the most?

Well, this is very interesting because, as you know, I struggle with. I started my company as Frances Rios Communications, but as a reshaper, I reshaped my business as well. So we went from being Francis Rios Communications to Francis Rios Enterprises. And my suggestion, always to the people listening to me, is that they need to expand their businesses based on their core business. What do I mean by this, tj What I mean by this is like I focus on women inclusion and women empowerment. So I not only serve as a speaker, but we also created the one and only tool around the world to measure levels of women inclusion within companies. As you see, it goes along with my business or the core of my business. Now we are going to be launching a girls clothing line to empower girls. So we are empowering women, but now we are also empowering girls. So as you can see, my business model is very simple, but it has many legs, all focused on the same thing, empowering the female population.

Well, I wish you luck with the clothing line. It reminds me of one of my worst ill fated business ventures. I started a TV tie line for men, all solids that don't clash. And it sold about two ties in two years. But you're a much better marketer than I am and I'm going to look for that because I need, you know, it's not too soon to be thinking about clothes for my daughter. My daughter's three and a half and believe it or not, we had public speaking lessons this morning because she had show and tell at preschool and we practiced on video. Our regular listeners know I do that with her. So not too soon to start getting her to dress appropriately. So we'll look, we'll put the link. I'd like to put the link in our show notes for that as well. Sure, princess.

Let me say just one thing. And it's about making alliances, cultivating allies. It's like we have been allies for many years. In order for people to grow their business, they need to cultivate partners. Otherwise you're not going to be that visible in the world.

Great final tip. Francis, thank you so much for being an ally of speaking with TJ Walker. Thank you. Thanks again for being with us today.

Thank you. Thank you very much, T.J. thanks for listening to speaking with T.J. walker.