Kerry Lutz On Turning Passion Into an Actual Podcasting Businesss

Speaking with TJ Walker, dissecting the communication skills and practices of world class leaders.

Joining us today is the founder of the Financial Survival Network. Kerry Lutz is a longtime media professional, podcasting pro, and soon to be author of viral podcasting. Kelly Gary, thanks for joining us.

It's a pleasure. Thank you for having me on.

Now, a lot of people have a passion and interest in economics, politics, what's going on in the world. They like to hear themselves talk. You've put it all together into a career. How did you actually do it?

Well, it kind of goes back a long time, but pretty much I used to ride around with my parents and the infancy of talk radio took place in the New York area and my parents used to listen to, to the originators of talk radio and I kind of just developed an appreciation for it and, and then went to college and had a speech class and my teacher there said, gee, you could be on the radio. And at the time, you know, there was no syndicated talk radio and, and I thought, oh great, I'm going to be a DJ. Spin records for $15,000 a year? I don't think so. But the thought always stuck in my head and I figured, well, I'll buy a radio station one day because no one will ever hire me. And then this thing called the Internet came around and I started listening to podcasts, you know, became a voracious podcast listener. And I said, yeah, maybe I could do this. And one thing led to another and, you know, all these years later, here I am.

Today you have the Financial Survival Network. People can find that@financialsurvivalnetwork.com you have shows that populate throughout iTunes, YouTube. What's the actual structure of this network and how do you make something like that go from a concept to being able to live the good life in Florida and New York and other places where you live?

Well, it's not for the faint of heart. You know, things are people, they're always overnight sensations that take years and years to do. For the first three years, you know, I had other business interests and I just kind of just kept pumping out interviews and pumping out segments and just kept doing it. And kind of eventually it just took off. More and more people started listening. They found it, found it interesting, amusing, entertaining, whatever. And where you knew it, tens of thousand tens of thousands of you out there were listening and, you know, it just kind of went from there.

And for people who want to find out more of what this actually is, you can go to your podcast app and type in Financial Survival Network and download and subscribe shows. Check it out for yourself. Now, you mentioned something you started doing segments, bits, pieces, and I've heard some of them. That seems to be counter to what a lot of the podcasting experts say, that everything has to be a set length show, almost the same amount coming out at a regular time. You, I may be mistaken, but seem to take the attitude of almost more like a news service. When there's something happens, you're pumping it out almost like a wire service. Is that correct?

Well, you know, I have regularly scheduled episodes. You know, I schedule guests and we kind of just talk about what's timely and, and then we just kind of go from there and you know, the shows go up and they'll be dealing with timely issues and, and then, you know, they just, they just go from there. Really.

How many shows do you do in a week? What sort of editorial calendar do you have?

Oh, you know, 12 to 15 shows. I'm kind of taking it a little easy this summer. Just so hot here and I just wanted to kind of spend a little time kind of going around and yeah, traveled a bit this summer, but 12 to 15 shows a week and, and then I'll help other people do their shows and you know, it just keeps me busy.

The book is viral. Podcasting will be out soon on Amazon and other online bookstores. What are people going to find in this book that they, they don't see? Because let's face it, there are, if not thousands, hundreds of books on podcasting these days. Many of the ones I've read seem to be put out by people who started a podcast yesterday, have five listeners, and now they're putting a book out. That doesn't seem to be the approach you took in preparation for this.

Well, here's the thing. Like, there's actually a annual show for podcasters called Podcast Movement. There's a bunch of other shows that kind of attempt to do the same thing. What I've seen from what most people have done, is they tell you how to do, technically a podcast, you know, here's the equipment you need, here's the software, here's the microphone you should get. But when it comes to actually building an audience, how to sound interesting, be compelling, how to do content, that's where they fall short. And so the book, I'm actually writing it. You know, I was writing it right before we, we went on air together. You know, I talk about things like how to be a communicator. Every one of us out there, you, me, your children, we're all communicators. But how do you adapt the fact that you're a communicator to. To going on air, to being a podcaster? And podcaster, you know, how do you get your work out there? How do you get it distributed? How do you get people to pick it up? You know, how do you avoid copyright issues? How do you turn it into a business? Who are the people you should look to who are doing it? Well, now, how do you get an intro done? How do you get an outro done? Do a business plan? Do you need a producer? What. What server do you use? How do you make money at this thing? Everyone wants to know that very few people are actually able to do it. Pride myself as being one of the few. I've had dozens of sponsors over the years. How do you nurture that sponsor relationship to keep them coming back and to make it profitable for them? Because it's got to. There's got to be something in it for your sponsor. Using social media to make your show really stand out, getting a coach. I could have never gotten where I am today without my coach, Valerie Geller, who's one of the top radio consultants in the world. You know, all these things. Your show format, getting a worldwide audience and people. I've helped attain these things as well. Your content. You know, what's going to work with people, what isn't. You know all these things. Creating a newsletter, creating your website. There's so many things to it. There's a lot of moving pieces to this.

You mean it's not just about picking out the best mic?

No, no. If it were that easy, then everybody, Any schmuck who picked up a mic could do it. And yet most podcasters fail. Do you know what the definition of a successful podcaster is? At least for Rob Welch of. Who's the VP of Libsyn Big Podcast.

Getting past the seventh episode.

Yeah, well, actually, the definition is somebody that gets 200 downloads or more on their. On their episode.

That's the median.

So that's. That's definitely half of all people are.

Getting fewer than 200 downloads.

90% or less get less than 200. Less than 200. So, you know, it's. It's not an easy thing to do, but I've developed a way of making it easy to do.

And tell us how you've evolved and how you've developed as a communicator. How do you talk on your podcast and interview people differently now than when you started this years ago?

I hate. I've got my earlier shows, and they're, like, not a pleasant thing to listen to. I mean, I can't even believe how bad I was when I started out. It's just. I can't even begin to tell you. I mean, I just remember the first show that I recorded, and they were all recorded, you know, they weren't done live. Went to a radio studio in, you know, operation in New Jersey out in Hasbrouck Heights, and I walked in and it was like I felt like, hey, this is home. This is where I belong. And yet then I sat down to the microphone, had the headphones on, and, you know, I was my own board op. And it's like, gee, the words just aren't flowing. What's wrong here? There's something wrong. I can't do this. And it was really frustrating, and I was shaking like a leaf even though it was recorded. So anything that was bad, I could redo. And there were a lot of stumbles and bumbles and, ah, you know, it was just terrible. And it took me like, 10, 15, 20 shows to get past that point. It's evolution, but if you love it and, you know it's what you want to do, somehow you just get past it. I mean, you just keep doing it. And then I figured, hey, I really want to do this, and I want to do it all the time. But you can't just do one show a week and expect to get good at it. You got to be doing this all the time. It's got to be an obsession. And I read books, and it was all I thought about for. For a good couple of years. I mean, now I do have a life, but I was working seven days a week banging out shows, and, I mean, I was banging out too many of them. But after a while, you get the poise, you get the confidence, and you just know that this is what you were born to do. I mean, it took me till I was 55 to figure out that it was what I wanted to do. But all of my life's experience kind of supported the final decision that, hey, this is my final career. This is it. I wouldn't say my final career, but it's my main career at this point. Do other things as well.

We're speaking with Carrie Lutz. He's the founder of the Financial Survival Network collection of podcasts and shows. You can download them, listen to them by going to your podcast app or by going to itunes. Who else were your role models in both the podcasting world, but the traditional broadcasting world, we're not that Far apart in age. And when I think of broadcasters I really saw as a role model, even though I didn't particularly like his politics. To me, Rush Limbaugh was and is outstanding as a broadcaster. Paul Harvey, of course, going back.

Oh, yeah.

To the forties. Who do you admire the most as traditional broadcasters? And then who in the podcast world do you think really have their act together?

So traditional broadcasters. I never liked Howard Stern. I mean, he was funny, he had some funny jokes, but his overall Persona I really don't appreciate, and I don't want to get into the reasons why, but I just don't care for him. And he didn't have that great a voice either. Nasally, twangy voice. Always thought I had a much better voice than his. Rush Limbaugh, Yes. I don't listen to him anymore for a lot of other reasons, but great voice and master of the medium. And when I aspire to do things, he's always number one. Not in terms of content, but in terms of technique, formatics. He is by far the best. Who has ever been. Perhaps you could say Paul Harvey. Paul Harvey was so Brandon when he'd say good day. You know, I mean, I can still hear it. And he's been dead for over a decade, I think.

Paul Harvey.

Beep, beep, beep. Good day. Yeah. I mean, so distinctive. Yeah. I mean, the guy was really. He really had something there. And, you know, when he promoted a product, I mean, you know, still, the bow is quiet.

I'm gonna go buy that Bose radio right now.

Just don't know it. It's amazing. I mean, the guy, he just had such integrity and honesty. So, you know, in terms of those aspects, he's better than Rush Limbaugh and, you know, that Midwestern American kind of thing. So then we got other guys that I kind of grew up listening to. There's a guy named Jim Kerr, morning man, was on WPLJ radio when I was growing up. Saw him in my college one time, and then he lost his gig, and he was really down in the dumps for over a decade. And then I was listening to the morning show that I liked, this woman, the radio chick, who I liked a lot. She was really funny as hell. Doesn't have to be all talk radio. And then one day she was gone and Jim Carr was back. And, you know, I don't know what problems he had, but I know he was financially really in the pits, and his wife stuck by him, had kids, and for 15 years, he's been back, and I. I'm in Florida now, but I get him on the Internet. I have an Internet radio just so I can get his show because he's such an inspiration to me that he never gave up and he's been morning guy and he's doing really well. So he's the comeback story and I'm really inspired by him. And you know, he's pretty talented. I don't think he's the best, but he's good. He's really good. I mean he's been doing it his whole life. He was a hit at like 21, don't you know, died at 35, back at 48. And here he is over 60 and he's doing it and you know, he'll be around probably for the rest of his life. So real inspiration to me that you can come back no matter where you are in life and still be a success.

That's the good thing about audio and radio. I mean, Paul Harvey signed what, another 10 year contract when he was 89. Yeah. So you can still talk and think you can do it.

Yeah. Then, then there's Cliff Ravenscraft, podcast answer man. You know, in terms of teaching me, actually the process workflow took podcasting from A to Z. He's phenomenal for that and really great human being, personal friend, a mentor to me and couldn't have gotten where I am today. I mean it was doing like 3,000 downloads a month. Took podcasting A to Z in July of 2011 and before I was even done, I was doing like 50, 60,000 downloads a month. And in large measure he always said, hey look, you have good production values. It won't get people to listen to you, but it will get them to come back. And before that I was just posting my radio shows using GarageBand. Sounded like garbage. Still getting three to five thousand downloads a month. I mean the first time I got over 10,000 downloads I was was better than any drug known to man.

And are you talking about per segment, per show or per all downloads?

Per month? Yeah, I think it was per month. I don't know, I didn't document it. I should have. Adam Curry.

And by the way, I would also endorse Cliff Ravenscraft. I'm a newer listener to his podcast, but I've just started listening regularly in the last two months and I find him very insightful. Just chock full of practical how to information.

Oh yeah, he's got such integrity and he really delivers more than you could ever want, than he ever promised. He's just a great person. I've met him Numerous times as part of his mastermind group when he had it. And he just is an all around great guy. I mean, I've gone beyond, well beyond what he's taught me, I have to say that. But, you know, like, for the technical stuff, no one better. He hooked me up with a HIL PR40 mic, which I think is the best podcasting mic out there. Not a. This isn't a plug for Heil. It's just the best mic for me. Does the best for your. Your voice. You know, you could go out there and get the electro voice or the sennheiser and spend 1200 bucks. This is 350. Every bit as good a mic, in my opinion, but not to get lost in the technical stuff. So Adam Curry and John C. Dvorak, Leo laporte, because they could do funny stuff. You can do funny stuff on podcasts. So I tried, even though often a lot of the stuff talked about is bleak because we're talking about the world economy blowing up around us, unemployment. But just because you're conveying not so pleasant information doesn't mean you can't be entertaining doing it. And you know, in the end of the day, if you, if you give the community to give the people who are listening some information and they get a couple of laughs and they get informed and you, you get some knowledge and you're entertained, that's. That's all you can reasonably expect. And.

The Daily show gets more views than Washington Weekend.

Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't particularly care for them, but he's got some funny jokes on there. And look, you can make fun of my guy, you can make fun of me, I don't care. I mean, hey, I know Donald Trump, not talking about politics here. He's. He's a veritable target rich environment for humor. Let's face it, there's a lot of funny jokes. And so is Hillary. I mean, but. And Obama. So, like, open season on all of them. For humor, you got to have humor. Humor is essential. What one person thinks is funny, another is not necessarily going to. But humor is essential for all of it. And I'm always looking for humor in anything. And some of my guests are just more open for it. I mean, I had Peter Schweitzer on Clinton Cash. Now, you wouldn't think that that would be really a funny interview. And yet Peter was hysterical because he saw the humor. There's always humor in everything. Okay, Yeah. I mean, you have a terrorist attack and a bunch of people get killed. Not an appropriate place for Humor. Okay. There are places where humor, humor is appropriate and other places where it's totally inappropriate. But we were having a fun time. Who was it? Not Klein Kessler who did the book. Numerous books about bashing the Clintons, but others too. I mean, I don't, I won't usually have on people who just bash one side without bashing the other. I mean, we got to be equal opportunity bashers here because the whole system is rotten and corrupt. But he was hysterical and extremely funny and gracious. I mean, I've had so many people on, people I never expected friends all over the globe. I was in Vancouver at a Sprott resource conference and I saw Jim Rickards there who interviewed a number of times on the show. So other people there, Rick Rule, you know, some are major personalities, some are minor, some are major personalities within limited segments.

How much of that really matters? You mentioned Leo Laporte a moment ago, who has put together just my perspective. What seems to be a fabulous empire, media, audio, video empire doesn't seem to be dependent on certainly Hollywood celebrities. You've got somebody like a Gary Vaynerchuk who, who doesn't have any guest and then you have the other people where the stars, you know, Tim Ferriss really has big name guests who are respected. A lot of different ways of doing it. How do you. For your own show, how much of a factor is the star quality?

You know, I could have started out with no guest. I did consider that. But I view my role as these are really serious and potentially dangerous times. So I felt like my role is more of a facilitator of a. Not a messenger per se, but as somebody who helps get the message out as to what's going on. So therefore I want to get as many diverse and different voices and not just all the same message, different and opposing views of the message to get you to think. And that is the key. I want you to think. So if you're not thinking after you hear one of my guests, then I did something wrong. So that's where I view my role. I have my own viewpoints and they do come out because I'm not just a passive interviewer where I ask you the same 10 questions. My training I've had. You know, I was a lawyer for a lot of years and I've read hundreds of economic texts. You know, I've been an expert in 12 different fields. So my expertise will come into play in a lot of different things. But there's a lot of people out there who know a lot more about the topic than I do. But Rick Rule can run circles around me. Jim Rickards run circles around me in their given areas. But I know enough that I can get the right questions, hopefully.

And you're running circles around somebody because you're making a living at this. Whereas as you mentioned, Rob Walsh points out, most podcasters don't get past the seventh episode. Another, I guess 80% dropout after the 23rd episode. The median is 200 views. So if this were a traditional live talk radio show on broadcast and we had calls, the phones would be going off the hooks right now saying, tj, you fool, you idiot. Why didn't you ask him how he went from 3,000 downloads a month to 50,000? Because there are a lot of people who do want to know that the technology side, the communication side.

Did you do gotta buy the book.

The book again is viral podcasting. It will be out soon on Amazon. Once it's out, we'll provide a link to that and a link to the pre order as well.

And the book and the website will also be similar name viral podcasting.com and it's not all that hard. But you got to be committed, got to have passion for what you do. It's interesting the guy who does Gilbert Dilbert, Scott Adams, said, nah, you don't really want to have a passion because you know you're better off not having a passion for what you do. And believe me, I've made a lot more money not having a passion for things than having a passion. But there comes a point in a time, a point in your life where you got to make a stand, you got to do something you love and you got to be committed to it. And if you don't have a passion for something, you're not going to be so much better to be passionate about what you do and love it. So when you walk into a room and somebody asks what you do, you don't have to bow your head and, you know, be embarrassed. You can stand tall and that is a great feeling. And that's why the past five plus years, there's nothing in the world, you know, that I would trade for it and do otherwise because there's just nothing better than what I've done.

So I am, I am going to buy the book. I'm not actually even going to accept a complimentary review copy. I'm going to buy the copy.

So that's good.

And I'm going to urge, I'm going to urge others as well to buy the book. But what can you share where do you differ from a lot of the conventional wisdom, by the way, you hear so many people talk about, oh, do a weekly show. It's got to be weekly. Whereas I look at some of the biggest successes, like John Lee Dumas.

Good example. Okay. I was in a mastermind group with John Lee Dumas and. And others who I'm still in a group with. And Dumas said, thinking of doing this daily show, and Ravenscraft says, no, weeklies are better at that point, I was pumping out four episodes a day. Said John, just do the daily show. It'll work out fine. You'll see. So, yeah, I mean, I don't see the point of a weekly show can be fine, but in most cases, I would say weekly show. If you're going to do less than a weekly show, I feel like don't bother, okay? Because it's not going to be fresh enough. It's got to be at least a weekly show. Daily show is better. Two to three times a week. Fine. You know, you could do Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or whatever. Oh. One person I do want to mention who really inspired me to do this, even though he didn't know he was doing it at the time, was Chris Waltzack of Gold Seek Radio. Loved his show. I listened to it for years, and he was just incredibly good at this. You know, one of the. One of the people I really regret never having on my show. He was so good, and, you know, I feel like I know him, like he's a friend. When you're really great at what you do, people feel like they know you and you're like almost a member of their family. When they tell you that when they meet you, that warms your heart. You know, you're doing a great job.

What else can you share as far as how you got over that hump? Because the vast majority of podcasters, even if they get past episode 7 and 23, their audience never gets large enough to the point where they monetize it. And in many cases, they don't get to the point where they really promote their own business or have enough of an audience for it to be meaningful. How did you get over that hump beyond just sheer work and thinking about it? Seven days.

All right, so the first thing is think big. Okay? But you don't have to necessarily think big if you want. If your audience is going to be private jet owners, who cares if you only have a thousand of them because they have huge disposable income? So you don't need a big audience. All right? But if you haven't done a plan. All right, I'll tell you a little secret here. It's. It's one of the chapters in viral podcast. Everyone starting a podcast should have a plan, preferably a business plan. And I'm not talking about an entire. I'm not talking about like a business plan to raise money from investors, but just a plan. Like, hey, after the first year, I want to have X number of listeners, downloads per month. I want to be generating X amount of revenue. Okay, Start with a plan. Treat it as a business, not as it's a little hobby of yours. I'm going to start this little podcast and see what happens, okay? That's what all too many of you out there do. And you know, there's an old saying in the business world, if you don't plan to succeed, then you're planning to fail. Okay? Which means you got to have a business plan. Doesn't have to be an elaborate thing. I mean, I've written 300 page business plans before that cover everything. Don't bother with one of them. A little 20 page business plan covers the basis and I have one attached as an appendix to my. To the book will suit you fine. Okay, have a business plan. Treat your podcasting as a business. Rob Welch says it, and I can't remember the other person.

Now, you mentioned Rob, and he's someone I respect. He's a recent addition to the podcasting hall of fame. I speak to him because I use Libsyn and their Pro account regularly. He always seems to have sound advice as well. And you can listen to his. His tips on four one one podcast, which is an excellent podcast. But he does say, for the most part, don't even think about Monet. Don't even worry about pod, about monetization, sponsorship. Just focus on building an audience. Wait till you get 5000 downloads per episode before you even think about monetizing it.

Yes, and it sounds like.

It sounds like you have a slightly different take on that.

Yes and no. Okay, so let's look at this way. Okay? I would say don't bother in your first six months. However, there are. There are several different types of podcasters. Now you're making me give away all my secrets here. That shows you're a good pod.

I'll buy three copies of your book.

Well, all right. In that case. So there's several different types of podcasters. Okay, so we'll talk about number one, I call Guru Income Stream. Your podcast promotes services and products that you are selling or marketing. Like what? That's kind of what Cliff Ravenscraft turned into. He was selling equipment, he was selling coaching. One on one coaching. All right, so he just kind of fell into that. He didn't really plan it out, which is a mistake, but he succeeded in, in spite of himself. Timing was good. Weren't many people doing it. We got the spokesman model and this type of podcaster starts out with passion, then finds some company to underwrite it. Like you're a skier, you're like a world class snowboarder. So you get head skis to just give you $10,000 a month to do this thing because you showed that you're good, right? So then you start out in the black from day one and then you're off to the races. Not many people can do that, but some, or you're, you know, you're a NASCAR driver and so you've got a bunch of sponsors and you just say, hey, I'm going to do this podcast and you know, AC Champion or whatever is going to sponsor the show. All right, Ad supported model, that's what I chose. And that is the most difficult. I knew it from the get go, so it took me three years of hard work to really get there, but I could have done it so much faster now. And I've been through 20 different sponsors for various periods of time. Emergency preparedness, food, bullion dealers. I mean, just like it's insane how I went through audible books, coffee, gourmet coffee. I mean, it's just crazy what I have.

And did your original plan call for a three year Runway before you had reach the point of sponsorship revenue?

Yeah, well, my original plan was to have mining companies sponsor me. But the precious mining industry, six months after I started had a major collapse. Price of gold and silver collapsed. That was the end of that. They were on life support, so that was the end of that. And then you have the listener supported business model. So they're in love with you. This guy Joshua Sheets get thousands of dollars a month from his listeners, you know, supporting him. So that can work sometimes work with celebrities.

And you do have a patron tab on your website.

People give me money. I probably just dumped that at this point, just left it. But some people get 2,500 bucks a month doing that. So. And there's some other ways as well. So you got to look at what's your why or just how you define success. And you know, if I had had a better business plan when I started out, a better revenue model, I would have done it a lot faster. Like I say, it wasn't in a position where I really needed to succeed that fast. So I just really concentrated on audience building heavily for the first three years. And, you know, year four, break even, year five, mark, you know, okay, profit. And now, you know, it's. It's a good business at this in year six. So.

And what does it really take as far as that threshold? Is it fight you? Do you need 5,000 per episode? And if you're pumping out three or four a day, does that dilute the number of listeners you have per episode?

So I did dilute initially putting out four or five a day. Really, you know, six a day sometimes, and five days a week, sometimes seven days a week. Sometimes I put out 25 episodes a week. And it was nuts. So, yeah, I was cannibalizing my own listeners. You know, there's not any definite numerical target that you have to reach. Like I said, if you have a thousand jet owners, private jet owners, you know, how much more do you need? You don't need a lot. It all depends on your target demographics, which is where the plan comes in. Have to figure out what your target market is. And you know, you have to figure out who your target listener is. Is demographic prototype, archetype. Go to your Google Analytics. They're going to be a little spotty for demographics. But if you have a website, make sure you have the Google demographics working so you can try to figure out what that person's into, how much money they make, and then, you know, you can start to kind of figure out what the money is there. I can't give you a surefire prescription for that. There's no hard and fast numbers. You know, some people could have a million listeners and not make any money, and some people could have a thousand and be just hauling in cash like you can't believe. So, like Vaynerchuk, people that drink wine have more money than people who drink beer. You know, it's really that simple. You know, you talk about Gary Vaynerchuk.

Initial show, the TV wine library that made him not a household name, but certainly famous to wine and enthusiast as well as Internet marketers and people fascinated by social media. He's a phenomenon.

Yes, he's a sensation. And really his production values were like in the toilet.

But he does go into great pains to tell people that it was crickets for 18 months, that he had virtually no audience and that he spent 15 minutes a day creating his show and 14 hours a day in chat rooms talking to people about their wine questions.

Yeah, his own fault, because he had no plan. All right, wasn't necessary the way he did it, but everybody has to do it their own way. Multiple income streams, you know, I won't go into that, but just keep that in mind. That is the key to your success in any web based business. Multiple income streams you have that you will succeed.

And what are the ease? I won't say easy because none of this is easy. But the most obvious ones are get your 5,10,000 downloads per episode and have Lipson for that matter sell on a cost per thousand basis. You can ask for donations, but what are the other ways that you think many podcasters are missing the boat on revenue opportunities. Well.

Got to get the book. Okay, that's all I'm giving out for.

Today, but you will cover that in the book.

It's all in the book. It's just be efficient. Have an efficient workflow if you can afford it. Get a producer. Don't outsource your production unless you have a producer that you trust.

Can you define that? Because that word means a lot of different things to a lot of people and many of our listeners might not have any idea what a producer actually is.

What they do post production. So as long as you've got some technical aptitude and you can record an episode once it's done, you shoot it off to a producer who handles all the post production, puts in your ad spots, puts in your intro, your outro, and then posts it to all the relevant websites, blogs, etc. That it's going to. Okay, iTunes, etc. So that's what it's about. Do that. Do the things that you do best. Get other people to do the things that you either don't like doing or don't want to do. And, and that is going to help you a lot. Minimal editing. Unless you screw up a lot. You know, I've got it down to a point where I just don't screw up that much. And keep the, keep the interview interesting, keep it moving, keep the tempo. It's all about tempo. You don't have to be perfect, but you do have to have a good rhythm. Okay? Because if you have bad rhythm, then you have to do a lot of editing. You had good rhythm, you hardly have to do any. Then you just market for your, your producer to cut out the places where you screw up and always make your guests look good.

You know, I gotta ask you about the screw up and then I'll let you go because I know you're busy and got a lot of things to do, but there's this whole industry out there of podcasts, service providers, post production, people who say, oh, we'll eliminate all of your ums and ahs. And from my perspective, I look at the people who are most successful in the world. David Letterman, Rush Limbaugh, Martha Stewart, Bill O'Reilly. They all say ah. And constantly.

Me too.

So what is the. My sense is it's a complete scam that these podcast service providers are doing, just playing on the insecurities of podcasters. You may have a different view.

No, I don't. Also, to filter out your breaths. How many of those really top people don't breathe that you know, they all breathe? No, I do it quite a bit. You could probably do a high energy drink and get rid of most of your ums and ahs, but you're human, so of course people don't do it. I used to really concentrate on editing the first two minutes of a segment and the last two minutes. You really feel that uptight about it, do it. Certain people I know really do sanitize it, but it's not real. Then it comes out too blow dried like our political process. Don't do it. Okay. Be natural. Valerie Geller's 10 powerful communication principles. Tell the truth, make it matter, Never be boring. Okay, those are obvious in my opinion, but one of them says, be who you are. Well, when you filter all that stuff out, a somebody with a really good ear can hear it. I can hear it if I pay attention, but you probably lost me already. You just don't need to do that. And that's just a way for them to jack up their fees. Don't do it. All right. I don't believe in cutting out the breaths. I think you can use equipment to get rid of most of your breaths so that they're not very apparent. And just go. Go with who you are. Be yourself and. And that should be enough.

The book is viral podcasting, coming soon on Amazon. The author is Kerry Lutz, founder of the Financial Survival Network. Carrie, thanks for being our guest today.

Hey, tj, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for having me on.

Thanks for listening to Speaking with TJ Walker, where the communication skills and practices of world class leaders are dissected.