Sifting Through Fake Versus Real Health Gurus - Dr. Felicia Stoler

Speaking with TJ Walker, dissecting the communication skills and practices of world class leaders. America is facing an epidemic of obesity. It seems like everybody these days has diabetes. And yet we're surrounded by so called health gurus with the latest Fad diet from Dr. Oz and Magic pills to whatever's being peddled at the supermarket tabloids. Well, our guest today is not one of those so called snake oil peddlers. Dr. Felicia Stoler has a doctorate in clinical nutrition. She's an expert. You've seen her on TLC as the host of Honey We're Killing the Kids. She's the author of Living Skinny in Fat Genes. You see her all over the place as a nutrition and health expert. She is in fact known as America's health and wellness expert. Dr. Felicia Stoler, thanks for being our guest today.

My pleasure.

How do you go about communicating through the mass media what people need to know when it comes to health, wellness and nutrition? On the one hand, it's a wildly complex subject. On the other hand, someone has boiled it down to about 10 words. I forget who. It says eat mostly plants, exercise, drink water, don't eat a lot of meat.

I mean, eat closer to the earth. I always like to say the healthy choice is the easy choice. And my other favorite sound bite is that diet and exercise are the least expensive, least invasive and most effective way to prevent and treat disease.

So how do you go about this, whether you have an hour, a whole series, a 30 minute speech, how do you go about getting people to look at health information in a new way? Because at some level people have been told what to eat and what to do, but somehow it's not going through that fine. I define communication as not only does someone understand your message and remember it, but they act upon it. And a lot of people know they shouldn't eat Cheetos and McDonald's hamburgers all day long and processed candy and watch TV. And yet we don't follow the advice of eat lots of fresh vegetables, drink water. So how do you start your whole communications challenge when dealing with that basic issue?

Well, you know, I counsel people in a private practice. I teach in a college and university setting. I'm a professional speaker. So I'm used to speaking in front of audiences. And I'm also, you know, I get inquiries from radio, TV all the time. Time. So I think for me, having a really solid foundation in the science of nutrition and physical activity and human behavior is an integral part of what I do. Understanding the relationship between diet and disease and physical activity and Disease, for that matter, Having a really good solid understanding of behavior change and what it takes to help people to change behaviors is really integral because, you know, yes, I've written a book, and there's lots of books out there. Patients call me up and they say, hey, you know, I just want you to tell me what to eat. You know, it's so different for lots of people or physical activity, it's different. I mean, you have to understand what people's habits and preferences are, what their beliefs are related to those behaviors, and so, you know, what sort of walls you have to tear down in order to help people make those changes. And again, like, no two people are exactly the same. So I find what's most effective for me is being able to start with where people are at and then sort of tweak it and individualize it. Or, you know, in a big setting when I'm speaking with people, maybe it's knowing to touch upon, you know, certain. Certain points that. That make the most sense to most people. And so, you know, and the other thing too is I definitely practice what I preach. So I literally, like, eat, sleep, and poop this st. And when you live it and you do it, it makes it a lot easier to communicate it. Not that you have to. I will say you don't have to, but I do find it is quite helpful to practice what you preach and to lead by example. I tell parents to lead by example with their children all the time. And sometimes in health care, clinicians don't do the same.

And folks, although Felicia is not in our studio today, I have met her in person and have known her for many years, and I can tell you she is a parag of physical fitness and exudes good health. Yeah, so she is not. Which does raise the question, though. I have worked with dietitian organizations over the years, including some you've been involved with. I'm always struck by the fact that it seems like half the dietitians I meet are themselves obese or at least very overweight.

Well, I'll just give you another one. I mean, I've met many as 14 medicine doctor that doesn't look anything like an athlete. So, I mean, I don't want to just pick on dietitians. And I've met some overweight cardiologists and endocrinologists. So, you know, I mean, and there's a big issue in nursing where, you know, if you've ever been to a hospital, there are oftentimes a lot of overweight and obese people working there. So I mean, in healthcare, I think that what you see actually parallels what exactly exists in society as we know it right now. But you know, I think the best thing for me is when people. I'm not going to say how old I am, but when people are often shocked by my age or the fact that I have a child in college, I find that flattery lovely. I enjoy that. And I always just say, I just practice what I preach. And if you do the same thing, you could look good too. I mean, I feel good.

And more important than that, you know.

And I'm trying to ward off disease is that whether some of them are nurture or nature, as far as what's in my DNA and knowing my family history for certain diseases, I've wanted to. For me, it's been a real labor of love to do what I can based upon everything academically I've learned about how to prevent certain diseases. I want to sort of combat heart disease because that's a big one in my family.

So let's drill deeper into this whole area, this arena of changed behavior. You speak to millions when you're on national TV shows, you do 150 plus media appearances a year, but you also have a private practice where you're working one on one. And I want to know what it takes to actually go from communicating an idea to creating change behavior. Because I know in my own practice I can give speeches to people about how to give speeches. They can read my books, they can watch my videos. It does nothing for them for the most part. It's only when I can work with them for a full day, get them on camera a dozen times, get them to the point where they see how awful and boring they are to begin with, and then get them to the point where they actually like what they see. Then and only then have I truly communicated my principles and create a changed behavior. But I want to know what it's like in your field.

Well, you know, sometimes people come in and like in my private practice, and they tell me they know what they're doing, you know, and they, sometimes they think they know what's best. And like I said to a gentleman last week, well, you've been doing it this way for a long time. You haven't seen change. That's why you're sitting in my office. So you need to trust me to guide you and coach you and help you that, you know, I'm clearly haven't been doing this for this many years because I'm not good at it. So some of it's trust. Some of it is. Again, my philosophy is, I know we were kidding around about Cheetos and McDonald's before. My philosophy is not to be a food snob or a food elitist, which is a big problem in this country when it comes to food and physical activity. First of all, everybody that when you talk to people about physical activity, they think that you look like an elite athlete at the gym and that you have to wear scantily clad clothing. Everybody looks great. I go to A Planet Fitness and I love going there and most people there aren't in great shape and I don't care about how they look, but I just love that they're there and that's the effort and people feel comfortable in a place like that. So I would start off with physical activity. Can you start with walking? What can you do throughout the day? What is something, looking at someone's schedule that they can realistically do? Is it including activities of daily living, adding some things in, like, you know, doing bicep curls while carrying in groceries, you know, in a, in a bag, using a, you know, a handle bag. Is it someone who's holding a baby, can they do squats or lunges with that baby in their hand? Because that's added resistance exercise. Can you, while waiting for water to boil, if you're making some pasta, can you do push ups off the side of a counter? I mean really just I try to make it fun for you, for people, and I want to make them feel like it is within reach and it doesn't have to be so difficult. And I try to remove the excuses and the barriers. Right. You have to look for what are barriers for change. So sometimes barriers for change are they're not going to like doing something because they just don't like it.

I like the idea that you're not a food snob and you're giving people creative ideas of how they can move more. But isn't. And believe me, I'm no medical expert, isn't 90% of our obesity problem simply a function of portion size and how much it's changed? I went to the Adventureland amusement park over the weekend with my wife, my three year old daughter and another family. And I went in and I asked for the smallest child's portion of ice cream.

Yeah.

And what was handed back to me would have easily been six portion sizes from when I was a kid. And it, you know, it almost doesn't matter how healthy the ice cream is when they're giving you something that's the size of A coconut on top of a cone, right. I mean, you really can't exercise that often a day, can you?

Well, no, but I mean some of it is portion, but some.

And for the record, I did split that with my wife and my daughter.

I always get the kitty cone. I will confess, I get the kitty cone. You know, it's just about asking for it.

But they had none. They had.

But listen, just be. You said you split it. Okay, but like I go to diners, I live in New Jersey. Have you ever seen the portions in a new, in a New Jersey or New York diner? They're ginormous. Doesn't mean that people have to eat the whole thing. You can split it with somebody. You can. I like to sort of literally like cut my plate in half or whatever I know the appropriate portion to be and eat what's there and then I take the rest home. But you know, forcing you to finish what's provided to you. And that's the challenge. And then the other challenge I have too is that there's so many, as you started off with the intro saying, there's so many diet gurus out there that have conflicting information and some of it's not based on fact or science that people get really caught up in these fads which I like to say are just fast acting diets which aren't life changing. It's about making lifestyle behavior choices. Somebody who may be going gung ho on an Atkins style diet. They may have problems with their triglycerides, they may have problems with their cholesterol levels. They may like it because they get to eat all the bacon and full fat dairy and you know, cut out carbs because that's what everyone thinks is so bad are carbs, but they're not. But that may not be best for health. I mean sometimes we have to outweigh what is for body weight alone and what is for performance if you're an athlete. And then what is for overall health and well being and longevity. And so I think that's a bit of a challenge. I had a client who said, listen, I'm going to tell you the truth, I eat out all the time. I don't cook. I'm not going to say that that person, person, you're going to have to cook everything from scratch and make them cook. I'm going to work within their constraints and what they're willing to do and say, hey, give me the menus for all the places you dine out. And I'm going to make suggestions based upon what are Healthy choices. And sometimes salads aren't the healthiest choice because sometimes a salad might have so much extra fat in it or mostly fat or heather or the dressing that it becomes the equivalent of a bacon double cheeseburger with, you know, blue cheese and bacon and you know, lots of oil. I mean there are just certain, you know, sometimes there, sometimes what you would not think is the better choice actually can be the lower calorie choice. But then it's about looking at the total sum and not just calories, it's looking at nutrients. Are you getting what you need for the day? And you know, personally I focus with people on eating fruits, vegetables. I think about it from the food groups. Are you eating your fruits, your vegetables, your whole grains? Are you eating high fiber foods? Are you getting enough protein? Are you having low fat dairy? And what types of fats are you having?

Wow. I just had a flashback confession. My sister and brother in law talked me into going on a vegan, I guess health cleanse. This was several years ago where you don't eat any meat, no sugar at all, no alcohol, no coffee for a month. And I followed it to a T and there were certain things like as many vegetables as you want, carbs, no problem. So I remember starting the first night and we're at a party, a holiday party and I see this mountain of guacamole and chips and they're like, is that on the diet? Sure, eat as much as you want. Well, I did. Guess what, if you eat unlimited amounts of guacamole, you're going to gain weight. I think I gained six pounds on this one month vegan diet.

Yeah.

So there's, there's always loopholes if you look at it the right way. Our special guest today is Dr. Felicia Stoler. She's known as America's health and wellness expert. For more information you can go to her website, feliciastoler.com that's f e L I C I A S T O L e r dot com. We'll link to this in the show notes below. You can also reach out to her on Twitter, ask her questions or thank her for appearing on this show. Feliciastoler Now Felicia, I just read from the bio you sent me which I appreciate you doing and I notice there's a trademark next to America's health and wellness expert. You are in a competitive field. There have to be hundreds of thousands of, of so called diet experts, health experts, nutrition experts, all of them peddling books. How do you stand out as different because your book living skinny and fat Jeans was wildly successful compared to the other 10,000 books that come out every day in this field, how do you give thought to your brand, even coming up with something like America's Health and Wellness Expert and taking the time to trademark?

Well, I think taking the time to trademark it is important because I think people in healthcare don't often think of ourselves as a brand. You know, we think of ourselves as an individual, but we really are a brand. So it's really easy to go to the US Patent and Trademark Office and create a trademark and do that yourself. You don't necessarily have to pay a lawyer to do it. You just have to follow the steps and they outline it to do so. The biggest challenge ultimately becomes with any intellectual property, isn't enforcement. And I think that's where sometimes people get themselves a little crazy, because we really are set up, you know, to only advocate litigation here. So. But you know, what sets me apart from other people, as I like to think of it, is that I'm a doctorally trained registered dietitian and nutritionist. I'm an exercise physiologist. You know, I don't sit here beating on my chest saying I'm extreme, a successful weight loss loser, and therefore that makes me an expert. You know, I would not want, you.

Know, unfortunately for your backstory, you were never 500 pounds, is that correct?

I was not 500 pounds. I was about 30 pounds over 20, 30 pounds overweight for a very limited period of time. And I did go to somebody with my credentials who changed my life. But I was also working at ABC News at the time, doing licensing for the network news division. And I contemplating getting a master's in journalism. And somebody there suggested that I go to school for something that I was passionate about and see if I couldn't work it back into media. And I really did some deep soul searching and decided to go to school. And I will tell you, for the people that say they don't have the time, I worked full time at ABC News. I went to school full time at night. I did not have any of the correct science classes that I needed for this type of study. But I did it because I wanted to be the best. I've always worked at the best companies. Before that, I worked at a big Wall street law firm. I worked at one of the top 10 in the country. I worked for a big, you know, top four network, like, you know, or Big three. At the time, you know, cable wasn't quite the way it is now. But, you know, I really, you know, I Always want to be the best that I can be. And, you know, having that training makes me so much better, better at what I do. So that's really what stands out. And then when I decided to go on for a doctorate, that was a decision for lots of reasons. One, because there weren't any other doctorally trained dietitians and exercise physiologists that did media work. So I figured that would set me apart from other people. And I also had the opportunity to do a medical journalism training as part of my doctoral program. So I've, you know, I've set. I've tried to work really hard to set myself apart from others. And yes, there are other people that are, are out there that do and say things. I mean, I know some people that say things, you know, want to drop names, but, you know, they can do what they do. Their credibility is on the line or not. I, because of my background, both in law and working at a network like abc, I have my integrity intact. And nobody can take that away from me unless I allow myself to compromise what I believe in in my heart. And so that's why for me, being highly educated, doing my homework and my research is really important before I speak about any number of topics that I'm asked about.

Well, let's address credibility. You brought up the board of Major Network credibility. Academic credentials. There's no one who has better academic credentials, credentials on Health than Dr. Oz. There's no one who has more media credentials than Dr. Oz. He had the print of approval from Oprah herself. And then he seemed to squander it all a few years ago with these, all the magic pills to make you lose weight. What do you make of that? Because certainly his colleagues at the Columbia School of Medicine and people he's performed surgery on have high respect for him. But a tremendous amount of people feel he's squandered his reputation.

Well, I would have to agree with that. I feel that he's had a great platform to address. And I think, listen, after he got a spanking in front of Congress, in front of all of millions of us, I think a lot of stuff on his show has been tapered down significantly. But I think the problem is one that, you know, not to slam Oprah Winfrey, but I find that a lot of people are sort of pandering to ratings instead of pandering to truth. And he sort of got oprafied. And the people that were writing stuff on his show are not medical journalists. And yeah, they have medical students that are there helping, but let's talk about nutrition and exercise first. Doctors get a one hour lecture on nutrition. So just because somebody's an MD does not make them an expert on nutrition. Doctors do not get training on behavior change in individuals, and they certainly can't even tell people how to exercise. So while Mehmet Oz is a fantastic and wonderful and very talented cardiothoracic surgeon, he's a heart plumber. You know, that's what he does. Maybe being a behavioral expert is not his forte. And a lot of the topics that get covered on his show, I find sometimes you see that, you know, it's stuff that he's reading off a prompter because somebody else wrote those words for him. So. And, you know, and that's a problem many times with a lot of people that we see on television. They're reading off a prompter. They're reading words that they did not necessarily have input in that story being created. And they're relying on other people to, you know, to say, to write that for them. And, you know, that's, that's always been a challenge that I've had. Even when I was doing my show, I said, you know, there's certain things I just cannot or will not say because they're not true. I mean, and I've never been on the Dr. Oz show and I've been called many times and lots of times it's the, you know, I should be grateful to be on their show. And I don't need that for my credibility. Other people use that for credibility to say that they've been on. And there have been times where they've asked me to do things and say things that I refuse to do. So I don't get to be. They don't follow through on it. And, you know, I have a higher level of respect for myself than to pander to being on television. Just to be on television.

And if you're going to help people on tv, it takes time. One of the fascinating things that I found with your show on the Learning Channel, Honey We're Killing the Kids, was it wasn't just they show up for a day or an evening or an hour taping them. You had to spend time with these people. How did you create change for the families you worked with on Honey, We're Killing the Kids?

Well, you know, in that case, we, you know, we did sort of an intervention in New York. Then it was going to their homes every week. I would be there for about a half a day every week. The producers are there. I mean, it certainly helps Having a camera crew and a producer, an associate producer and a PA or two there, like sort of helping out with that kind of stuff and giving people a manual and tools. But, you know, something that I. There was a somebody else hosting it in the prior season. In order for me to really make that more my own, I said, listen, I want to get the physical activity in early. That was really important for me because if we're really only there for three weeks, and sometimes you hear people say it takes 21 days to change a behavior, then I want to start that behavior at the beginning so that I can keep following up on that as we go through and hopefully some of that stuff will stick. So, you know, everything ultimately came down to changing your food intake, changing your habit, your food habits, getting more physical activity in. Sometimes it was improving sleep habits. You know, a lot of the, you know, there was a lot of the crying kids when we took the TVs out of their room. But now I guess it would be, you know, stealing everybody's kids. Technology, right. And keeping that out of the bedroom. But, you know, those are the types of things. Eating meals together, trying to cook meals together again. I know, I recognize that people can't always do that, and it would be nice to say you have to always do that. But, you know, you can make other, you know, better for you choices. But the truth is, where else are people supposed to learn the right thing to do? It's not being taught in schools. You go to the media. And again, depending on which guru you want to follow will depend on whether or not you're going to get the information you need. And I always find it funny when someone sits in my office and I pull out my food models and we talk about portion sizes and what, you know, what is an appropriate portion size. And then somebody tells me, well, I eat like four times that serving of pasta that you have there or when I eat a piece of fish. You know, most people don't realize, especially with protein foods, and we do need protein. And I'm not, you know, not slamming that, but you don't need a pound of it. We don't need a pound of salmon or a pound of steak, you know, deck of cards. Three to four ounces is a serving. And, you know, listen, that stuff tastes great. It does fill you up because it's got fat in it. And fat and protein are a little bit. Take a little bit longer to digest. And I totally get that. And you should have it. But, you know, that doesn't mean we should be eating More of it. And so, yeah, I mean, there's a big education process. And I always say to parents that bring their kids in to see me, kudos to you, because you're getting a jump start on this. And, you know, if it's any consolation, my daughter is a freshman in college. She's been there for all of three or four weeks. And last parents weekend this weekend, she said, you know, you need to bring me some food this weekend. I need you to make me some things. And the first words out of her mouth were, string beans. And I said, what? You want me to bring you string beans? And she said, you know, they don't make them the way you do at home. I mean, literally, all I do is I steam them. Steam fresh string beans. But to her, she said, you know, they're army green, they're.

Alicia, I gotta tell you, we have to get rid of your trademark, America's health and wellness expert, and come up with a new trademark that says I can get your kid to crave string beans. That's something people would pay millions for.

I was just laughing. I said, well, she said, they're either canned or they're overcooked. I said, okay, you know, but, you know, she didn't want to learn how to cook. I would always say to her, why don't you come in the kitchen and learn how to cook with me? And so she could make that in a microwave in her dorm room if she really wanted to. It's just funny. I just really thought that was funny. Out of all the things that I was expecting her to say, she wanted chicken soup or something like that.

Sounds like she didn't gain the freshman 10 or freshman 20 if she was there.

She's been there three weeks, so I don't know. We got plenty of time. But check back with me the end of the year. But, yeah, but I. Felicia, you mentioned.

A moment ago, gurus, certainly to a lot of people, you're their health guru, whether they know you from the vetted health news TV show, your numerous appearances, or your book. But I want to know, who do you respect as a health guru? Because there are a lot of people out there. I'm not going to ask you to trash competitors, but certainly Dr. Oz has been rightfully criticized. I love Oprah for a million things, but the idea that someone would look at Oprah and say, oh, well, she's with Weight Watchers now, I should, too. I think there's a lot of problems with that thinking. Dr. Phil, who by most standards, for his weight and height, is way overweight and is diabetic. I just have a hard time people buying his product or books on how to get a healthy weight. You have people like Richard Simmons who used to have the deal a meal. I'm not as critical as him, but I want to know who do you actually like and respect? And if you want to weigh in on some of the others you don't feel as highly about, that's my thing.

From a diet standpoint or just sort of doing more medical diet and health advice, I'd have to say my favorite. Someone who I am friendly with is David, Dr. David Katz up at Yale and he's the president of the American College of Lifestyle Medicine. And he started this true health initiative and he had asked me several months ago to come on board as one of their ambassadors. And they have a lot of people as ambassadors there. But he's really my favorite.

I just find what's different about his.

Approach, he, you know, he's not on broadcast television as much as he's in print. So I just, I just like his, I just think he's a super bright man. He's a great, well rounded physician. So he doesn't have some obscure specialty where speaking about nutrition, I don't remember what his exact specialty is. I should, I really should know that off the top of my head. But, you know, like, he's not a psychiatrist talking about nutrition. He's not a surgeon talking about nutrition, you know, so.

Because surgeons and psychologists and psychiatrists really don't know anything about nutrition for the most part.

Right. I mean, even in their training, that's not what they get to do. So. But I think what Dr. Katz has done so well is he really can sit and pick apart a research study. I know that he's been involved with a lot of interventions. So, you know, while there are some people that are just on tv, he has had his hands in a clinical practice for quite a long time. And he's even come up with, you know, some products and product lines of his own. You know, not necessarily food products, but he had a rating system for a while to help people identify better for you choices. And you know, I just think as somebody, he's not just been out there just sort of preaching it, he's been there as a clinician. I think that's the other thing too that makes things unique for me is that I am a clinician. There are some people that just do media that don't touch patients every day.

That's a fancy word. That's just A fancy word for you have to talk to real people with real problems face to face and help them.

Well, I'll give you an example. When I was doing my medical journalism training at ABC News's medical unit up in Boston, Dr. Tim Johnson @ the time was the head of that unit. And he said to me, felicia, what do you want to do when you graduate? I said, I want your job, Tim. And he said, yeah, you and everybody else. But really, you know, what is it that you want to do? And, you know, we spoke about my desire to do more in broadcast media, but he said, if I could give you one piece of advice, it's to always keep your hand in your practice. Keep your hands in your clinical practice, because, you know, you could be hot today and not tomorrow, and you'll always have your clinical practice. Nobody can really take that away from you. And I have found that to be so helpful in the work that I do, because I get to keep my finger on the pulse of what people are thinking, what they are picking up from other media sources. You know, clients will bring in products and show me things and ask me about things. So that's also how I get to do my due diligence and really know what's going on and learn how to communicate or know that there are certain messages that are pervasive, that are getting back to people and knowing how to address it or combat it. I've got a funny cartoon that I've used for talks that shows the doctor's office, and behind the door it says, thank you for not mentioning Dr. Oz. Because I think so many physicians and other healthcare professionals, like, you know, the hair on the back of their neck stands up when they get asked questions. And it's because maybe they're not used to hearing those questions all the time coming to them, because that's stuff that's in the media, and that's something that I do every day. I'm always. I wake up, I look, I read, you know, different news websites, I look at different, you know, things. I don't really get paper, newspapers anymore, but I look at everything online and I get some embargoed journal articles sent to me because I work in media. But it's understanding what's out there, what's the media's take on it and how my consumers perceive it so that I know what's going to happen when they ask me about it in my office or when I get a phone call from a radio station or ask to come on and comment on something for a news.

Broadcast. You are listening to Speaking with TJ Walker. This is the program where we dissect world class leaders in their communication practices to figure out what do they do that makes them stand out. Connect with audiences to be more successful than their peers in reaching people and helping people. Our special guest today is Dr. Felicia Stoler. She is known as America's health and wellness expert. You can find out more about her at her website feliciastoler.com or on Twitter feliciastoler. Felicia, what is the news site that you trust the most? If someone were just to get their health and fitness nutrition information from one site, what would you recommend to.

Them? Oh, gosh, I don't even think there is one. I mean, I would say WebMD, if you want to go to like a curated health, it may not necessarily be breaking news, but unfortunately I look at the New York Times, Time magazine, I look across all the different news networks at their health stories and their coverage and sometimes you have to go break down a journal article because you read the way a journalist interpreted it and it may not be right. And some people have positions writing for those networks that sometimes get those stories wrong. At least from my vantage point and my perspective and based upon my level of analyses. I wish I had one better answer for you. I think the answer is that more news organizations need, I would say doctorally trained, not necessarily physicians, but people that really understand how to. They need more doctorally trained science experts, you.

Know. But WebMD you say is reputable. You recommend.

Them.

Yeah. Okay. Well, I'm gonna make, I'm gonna make a note to use that myself because issues don't. I. Fortunately, I have a very healthy three and a half year old. But you know, something does come up every now and then and you're wanting to know what should I do? Is this worthy of calling a doctor or can we just do a little more investigation? So it is nice to know about that resource. Let's go a little deeper and analyze your communications, your media background and how it infuses your message. You had a book come out, Living Skinny and Fat, the Healthy Way to Lose Weight and Feel Great. And I have a true confession for you. I have had, if not hundreds, at least dozens of clients come to me who have some book on health, nutrition. They come to me for media training and I of course help them look better, sound better, clarify their message and speak in sound bites. But the reality is most of them sell very few books because it just doesn't cut, it doesn't stand above the clutter. I mean, if you go Amazon now and you type in weight loss or diet, I'm sure you would get hundreds of thousands of books come back at you. So I want to know, of all the things you could have put in your book and that are in your book, how did you decide what to emphasize when you went on your media tours and you did your extensive TV and radio interviews? Plugging the.

Book? Yeah. Well, the nice thing is, with my book, when I went to meet with my literary agent, we met with many publishers. You know, a few publishers were so used to these sexy, kitschy, gimmicky books, you know, and these perspectives. And I said, listen, I have a really novel approach. Why don't we stop lying to people and tell them the truth? I will try to make it as sexy as possible. But, you know, the truth is make better food choices, eat less calories, move more. And that's really what it comes down.

To. But you don't need a whole book for that. That fits on a postage.

Stamp. But there had to have some other tools in there. What's nice and what I love about my book is I think it's very evergreen. It's not based upon one research study that came out that has since been refuted. It's based upon, you know, a whole science of knowledge, you know, and other people's research. And also from doing my practice for so long, you know, trial and error. What works, what doesn't work, what works when I'm doing, when I'm teaching people and what doesn't. And so, you know, it's been real easy. It was real easy for me to get booked on media and to do stuff. It was also, you know, my. I had had a show out, so that had helped as well. So that worked to my advantage. And because I do so much media, most people don't have an issue with booking me because they know I'm not going to show up and embarrass myself or look terrible. And I don't mean my appearance, but I always am very professional when I do my segments. And.

Informative. That's the beauty of having hundreds, if not thousands of appearances on your media resume is a booker thinks, well, if this person is horrible, I can't be blamed because I can say, well, they were on all these other.

Shows. Well, nobody's ever complained about any of my TV segments. And I, you know, I think one of the most fun ones I recently taped, which won't be on until November or December this year, is I did startalk at the Museum of Natural History for National geographic with Neil DeGrasse Tyson. And what I loved about that is it wasn't one of these. You've got four minutes or less to get your messaging in. I was on, I will be on for pretty much the full hour. And I got to be the expert and it was a lot of fun. And I got to be smart and I got to be funny and I didn't have to worry about a sound bite because there wasn't. There was. You know, I didn't necessarily know everything that was going to be asked of me. So I really, you know, that's another thing too, is that for me, being very well rounded in my practice and again, having a practice and practicing what I preach and speaking in front of so many different diverse groups of people and keeping my finger on the pulse of research helps me to be in a situation like that. Because when you're doing live television or radio, sometimes you just don't know what somebody's going to ask.

You. And if you're nervous or you've never done TV before, or you're not well rounded, it's easy just to panic and have that awkward silence which is the producer's worst nightmare. Many of our listeners love Neil DeGrasse Tyson. I mean, I like him. I wouldn't say I love him, but I do like him. And I see him in a lot of different shows from Bill Maher's show on HBO to his own. Walk us through. What was it like being on that show? How did they prep you? How did the exchange go? What was the setup like? Because you're not in a traditional studio there, you're actually in the planetarium.

Right? Yeah, it was very cool. It was a little different than when I've been to other TV shows in the past. You know, it was just a totally different format. I was able to be privy to sort of an initial script. I was privy to pre taped interviews that were done with the celebrity, which in this case it was Terry Crews and there was a comedian there as well. It was just different. You know, I got the hair and makeup, which I always love. And you know, once I get all mic'd and set up and you know, I spoke to Neil and I said, you know, tell me. You know, I've watched a few shows on and I had just sat through a taping where he has Bill Nye on a lot and I know how Bill does his thing, so. And I hadn't seen a lot of his shows where there were female experts on. So it was kind of interesting too. So he was really nice about it. I think once everything warmed up and we just got going, we took about three hours to tape what will be a one hour show ultimately, besides the retakes and some of the beauty shots that have to be done and some of the wraparounds that have to be to be done to cue something up. I enjoyed it. I was open to it. And again, because I've done so many different types of programs, I was totally relaxed. I mean, I'm very relaxed when I do it. I could say the best piece of advice I would give anybody listening to this that is doing especially broadcast because I know so many people get nervous about it, is just be yourself. Don't look at the camera. Don't worry about where the camera is. Usually when you're being interviewed, you're supposed to be looking at the person asking you the question. It's different than when you're doing a satellite remote, right? I mean, you talk to that all the time and that can be a little weird. But I always say if you have to do pieces to camera or you're staring at the camera, I always say what they should have done. Somebody should have come up with an overlay to put over a camera lens that looks like a face. So you at least.

Feel. I've done that from time to time for clients because they have more and more these days, people have, especially financial organizations. Mutual funds will have their own in house TV studio where they can do the hookups with cnbc. And I've actually had artwork put around to make it look like a.

Face. This is what you have to just think of it as just it's a face. You don't have to be. I mean, hopefully people aren't so boring and beige when they speak that, you know, you just want to kill yourself. But you know, just be yourself. I mean, somebody once said to me, just be yourself. Felicia, you don't have to be any more animated. You're definitely animated enough on your own so you don't have to like zhuzh it up for tv. You don't have to do that at.

All. Well, I agree with you with one caveat. And here it is. We all have different sides to ourselves. For a funeral, we talk one way. If we're at a Giants football game, we talk another way. If we're really, really scared, a lot of people become like little bunny rabbits. We freeze. So if someone's on TV for the first time and they're scared, they are being themselves by lowering their energy and Speaking softly and their hands and body freezing, that is themselves. It's just how they are when they're scared. I try to stress you have to act like you are when you are talking to a friend and you are completely comfortable. So it's not acting like a Broadway actor doing a different part. You're just acting like yourself, but acting like yourself when you are completely comfortable and relaxed and having a beer, talking to a.

Friend. Right. Or, you know, like, I have a lot of female friends, or sometimes I've been in a green room before I do a segment and somebody clearly hasn't been on before, and I've said, you know, here's the thing, just talk to the host the way you're talking to me right now, and just think of that person as your girl, as your girlfriend, as your guy friend, and you're having a conversation and they're asking you, you're here because you're an expert in something or you're here because you did something and you know it really well, and they're not there to make you look bad. So I think sometimes just getting that level of reassurance, you know, can be helpful because sometimes producers or associate producers seem a little cold because they're just busy and they have a lot that they have to do or a floor director. And so sometimes you're not going to always get that beforehand where there's. That producer isn't really prepping the client or the interviewee the way maybe the person would like to be prepped so they could manage their.

Expectations. And a good rule of thumb, if you're on a show, it's not anyone's job to prep you other than you. You've got to come in ready to be great whether you're on for an hour or for 10 seconds. You can't expect the producer, the reporter to go out of their way to really make you look good. Let's wade into something a little more controversial. You just mentioned when you're with the girls, there's been a controversy just in the last 48 hours. I forgot what organization, but they were complaining about how women's clothes shouldn't be called plus size. That's body shaming, and that's horrible. And. And certainly we do live in a culture where people can be mean and bullying is a real thing. And certainly there can be real diseases like anorexia and bulimia that are.

Quite harmful and kill people, and so is obesity. I.

Might. But how do you factor that? I mean, if all of a sudden the new President, you know, President Trump or President Clinton in 2017 call you up and they said, we want you to be on a national task, to be a cabinet level position to fight obesity. What are you going to do? Because we live in a culture where, yeah, there is a problem with bulimia and anorexia, but for every person, I don't have the exact statistic, but it seems like for every young person who has a problem with that or any age person, There are about 5,000 who are clinically obese and have all sorts of health problems and reduced lifespan and lifestyle because of obesity. And yet we have no problem telling an alcoholic, you've got to stop drinking. We have no problem telling someone who smokes, who's just been diagnosed with some form of lung cancer, you've got to stop smoking. But for someone who's obese, you're considered obnoxious almost to tell them to eat less. So how would you deal with this as a public policy.

Issue? I thought that'd be funny to do a show where I basically go and hijack people and pull the food out of their mouths. As a public, as a policy issue, I mean, so much of it really comes down to personal choice and decisions. And as I like to say, the healthy choice is the easy choice. You just have to make it. I think that we need to stop blaming other people for our own decisions. I mean, you're talking about body shaming and blame and bullying, but really a lot of it starts with ourselves. Stop making excuses. Because yes, there are people that advocate love yourself at any size and don't talk about larger sizes being plus. Okay, I get it. But let's not mistake the fact that being overweight and specifically being obese is not healthy, period. There is research that comes out all the time looking at heart disease, looking at cancer risk. So can you be fat and fit? Yeah, but the majority of people that are obese are not fit. You know, and a lot of people do have other, we call them comorbidities or other health problems. So, you know, I'm all for not hurting people's feelings, but that's a big part of the problem, too. There's been research looking at the fact that doctors are afraid to tell people because they don't want to hurt their feelings. Where. And you were talking about, isn't that a problem? Big problem. I've got a problem with that. The other reason why doctors don't address it is because they don't. They're not equipped to handle it, which goes back to the Fact that doctors don't have the training nor the time based upon the way billing works for them to be able to turn around and say to people, yes, you need to lose weight. And then, well, then they're left on their own to go figure out the best way to do it. So that is problematic. But something else that is as big of a problem, if I think not more than anorexia and bulimia, is that there's a big problem with self harm and cutting and other. I work with a lot of patients with disordered behaviors and I would actually say there are fewer people that are straight up straight. There are fewer people that are specifically anorexic or specifically bulimic. And I would say there are more people what I would call the not otherwise specified. And I have a lot of people that have those problems. And it's really about anxiety. And the problem is really what that roots down to is mental health. And we don't have enough or adequate mental health care in this country. And so in that is why even obesity. A lot of people eat to feed their emotions because that makes them feel good. That's their drug of choice. And so really it whittles down to mental health care and what's on the anxiety pathway. And most disordered eating is about OCD and.

Anxiety. But you say it comes down to personal choice. We as a society do restrict personal choice for health issues. We don't give people the choice in most states whether to wear a helmet when they're riding a motorcycle. We don't give people a choice to wear seat belts. We don't give people a choice to use heroin. We don't give teenagers the choice of drinking beer and wine and booze. So we do restrict it in many other ways. I'm not suggesting you're going to come to everyone's house as the new health czar and limit their calorie use and throw out everything from their refrigerator. But what can be done, because we.

Are. What I think would be really interesting would be to hold the media accountable and to also hold some of these gurus and experts accountable that if the media would stop giving some of these people a platform to spew the diarrhea that comes out of their mouths. That is not true. That actually keeps people stuck in their ruts and is harmful, maybe we'd have some improved health outcomes. Because if somebody's watching Dr. Oz and there's some expert on swearing about one pill, maybe they should stop doing that kind of stuff just to get.

Ratings. Magic beans Magic. If I just had these magic green coffee beans, I could eat as much as I want and be razor.

Thin. Right. But, you know, there are, you know, and even book publishers, too. I mean, in magazines, I mean, if we held the media a little bit more accountable for being responsible, I mean, could you imagine if in. If we spoke, or if we, as in, like the media way, if we spoke about diseases in the same harmful way? You're not seeing them putting all these, you know, people up, talking about cancer or heart disease or the best way to deliver a baby other than, you know, like, they're putting physicians up there. So why do we let celebrities come be experts? Or why are we allowing other people to be experts? Or why are we writing things that we know are really not true just because it's going to sell.

Something? What are some of the biggest bad diets out there that you know of that you think are getting a lot of circulation? Certainly the carb thing. I have friends over to my house for barbecues, and they're eating 10 hamburgers and hot dogs. They're like, no bun for me, tj. I'm not doing carbs. And it's not my role to say, you fat tub of lard, stop eating eight hamburgers. My friends won't come back. But it just does seem a bit comical that people fixate on such odd things when continuing to stuff their.

Faces. Right? I mean, I think there's that. I think all these cleanses that are out there, like people doing these juice cleanses, people looking for, oh, what is my other favorite colonics.

Detox. I actually did see a great article about detox. I can't remember if it was on Slate or Vox Dutch yesterday. And it said, basically, anytime you see the word detox, you should run. There is no such thing unless you happen to be a heroin addict or, you know, your blood level is, you know, 0.2 or.

Above.

Right. Other than that, it's basically a charlatan is going after your money.

Right? Correct. So, you know, our bodies do a great job of detoxing all on their own. So. So we do break foods down into its simplest forms. And for most of us, if our liver and our kidneys work well, we've got a good filtration system going on. And if you drink adequate water and you exercise and you're getting enough sleep and you make better for you food choices, that's great. And the other thing, too is you don't have to just juice everything. It's called chew your food. I think if more People chewed their food and were more mindful of their food when they're in the moment eating it versus inhaling it or just drinking everything through a straw, we'd be better off. I mean, think about, you know, you could drink a cup of coffee at Starbucks that has the same equivalent as, from a calorie and fat standpoint, as, let's say, a donut. And which one would you enjoy more? Would you enjoy drinking it through a straw or would you enjoy chewing the donut? At the end of the day, you could still be the same 3 to 400 calories. The question is, how do you prefer to get it delivered? You.

Know? Yeah, the fruit juices, in particular, smoothies. I've tried to cut back on my own smoothie intake because I would pat myself on the back. Wow, I'm making such a healthy smoothie. I've got avocado and banana and orange and grape. And, yeah, individually, each one was very healthy, but Collectively it was 1,000 calories. If I'd had to eat the banana by itself, that probably wouldn't have been enough. Or the apple or the avocado. So that's often the problem of. We process it. And that's not the worst sort of artificial processing. But putting in a blender is a type of processing that makes it easier to just guzzle a lot more calories quickly because you're not having to.

Chew. Right, Right. Well.

That'S. And here I am. I know nothing about nutrition. Why am I giving advice on nutrition? This is a classic example. Someone has a microphone all of a sudden. They want to opine on matters nutritional. They should stick to their knitting. So let me do that and practice what I preach. What else? Are there any other charlatans out there you think people should avoid who might be good communicators but really are giving out bad information when it comes to health and nutrition?

Yeah, well, only if you want to know.

Them. You don't have to burn bridges if you don't want.

Them. I don't necessarily want to start getting all these people again. Me, necessarily. But what I will say is that so often people are looking for some transient quick fix. And if you look at, you know, if you look at things even like Paleo, it's like, why would anybody want to eat the way a caveman did? They didn't live past the age of 30. That's my question. It's not based on science. And we know so much more about the relationship between dietary intake and environmental intake and health outcomes. So, you know, that Being said, we have to look at what we know currently, not what's been out there. And the other thing too is, you know, there was just an article in Time magazine this week about sugar and the sugar industry. And you know, and then, you know, I read it with, I literally take it with a grain of salt piece, you know, a teaspoon of sugar. Because I know deep down sometimes when you start breaking stuff down, I knew that that article had a bias to it. And that's, that's a big challenge because a lot of people are too lazy to go back to the original research and look at it. I mean, I've had people call me to interview me about something and I said, I'll say send me the original article. And I'm like, well, what you thought your interpretation was based upon somebody else's interpretation is not what the article says. So if you want to get down to it, I wish maybe more scientists wrote in a manner that was consumer friendly so that the point of their research would not be misinterpreted by quasi journalists or journalists that don't understand anatomy and physiology or.

Biochemistry. That leads me to my final question. I meant to spend more time on it. You're starting a new academic program on lifestyle communication. What is that all.

About? Yeah, so at Rutgers University we have a whole, we're delving into the Mediterranean lifestyle and Mediterranean diet. Our department chair is from Greece. So we're going to actually be doing some programs to take people to Greece to actually immerse them in the Mediterranean lifestyle. So it's not just sitting in a room or sitting at a computer learning it, but it's actually experiencing it. Taste, touch, smell, movement, everything. Mind, body, spirit. But I'm going to be teaching a class starting next summer online about lifestyle communication, which is really for healthcare professionals or others who just want to learn how to communicate better. Because oftentimes we are not taught how to speak to people. We are not taught how to take the science and translate it into consumer friendly terminology. And what better way to do it than to learn it from someone like myself who does this all the time. So I'm very excited about.

It. We'll provide a link to that as well. In the show notes, we've been speaking with Dr. Felicia Stoler. She is a world class communicator and is known as America's health and wellness expert. She's the author of Living Skinny and Fat Genes. You can reach out to her feliciastolar.com or thank her for appearing on the program today. On Twitter Felicia Stoler, thanks for joining us today. Thanks for listening to speaking with TJ Walker. Where the communication skills and practices of world class leaders are.