Introducing Around The Horn 2.0, with Guest Brendan Breen

Welcome to around the Horn 2.0. Sponsored by LeadSmart Technologies, this special spinoff of around the Horn in Wholesale Distribution features deeper, more expansive discussions with the most important leaders in wholesale distribution and manufacturing. Now join your hosts, Kevin Brown and Tom Burton for an insightful conversation with Brendan Breen of the isa.

All right, Kevin.

Good morning, gentlemen.

You should start dancing even though we have no music. There we go. There we go. Now I feel like we're here.

We'll have our bumper music for our next next episode with great music in it that I can dance to again, which will be fantastic. But great to see you, Tom. Great to see you, Brendan. Welcome, everybody. Good this morning.

Fantastic. Kevin, thank you for having me. This is awesome.

Well, this is great. You know what, what made me think about this, Brendan, is that we're.

In.

Our inaugural episode this morning of around the horn 2.0. So I guess based upon our discussion earlier, the very first thing to say is this is not replacing Our Friday morning 9am Pacific Time weekly podcast where we do around the Horn and wholesale distribution and manufacturing and review the news of the week. This is the secondary version, I guess we'll call it, for lack of a better term. The tagline that our team came up with was big ideas and bold conversations shaping the future of distribution and manufacturing and why we're here and doing things a little bit differently is because we have great guests like Brendan that we've had on multiple times on our show. And sometimes it's time to, as Tom says, dive a little deeper or peel the onion a little further. And so we decided to launch this secondary show again, not replacing the first one, but this secondary show. We're going to do it probably once a month, maybe sometimes more. Sometimes we may just go live on LinkedIn, YouTube and Facebook and share some thoughts about a big news event. But this gives us another format where we can bring some guests on who might have said in the past maybe the other format wasn't optimal for them, but today we've got our friend Brendan Breen for the CEO of the Industrial Supply association.

And.

And Brendan, one of the reasons, there's a few of them, but one of the reasons I wanted to have you on as our inaugural guest is if I haven't looked back, but I think that you might have been one of our. Either our first or first two or three guests that we had on the original show two and a half years ago. So it just seemed appropriate for you.

To be with us. I mean, we've come a long way, Kev, you know, we started out with just little baby podcasters and look at you guys now. Hundred and thirty something episodes. I think you're right. I think I, I was on one of your first episodes and I love that the format didn't really vary too much. I mean, having coming, coming back and knew exactly what to expect. But now you're throwing this curveball at me where I'm actually gonna have to talk about real things and not just riff with you guys. I don't know. It's a lot of pressure.

We're expecting Brendan, we're expecting big ideas and bold conversations. Right.

And you are now shaping the future of distribution.

Yeah, you guys should have talked to my wife before first. She would have told you you brought on the wrong guy.

Well, you know what, that's why we don't talk to any of our wives. So Tom's actually going to be in town tonight and having dinner with my wife. And guess who gets beat up out of that conversation, right? Oh, you can only imagine. So I've known Tom for over 50 years and been married to my wife almost 21. So of the, of the folks out there, you know, they're, they're probably the ones that can create a punching bag out of me the easiest. But hey, before we dive in and start doing some, some questions and we're going to talk about a lot of things related to distribution and manufacturing. We're going to talk probably more today, obviously about the industrial, the MRO marketplace and some of the markets that ISA serves. And we're going to have other guests down the road. We're going to be talking about H Vac and electrical. So but before we do that, let's just chat kind of briefly about. We might have some folks that are here for their first time coming in. It's a great comment. Appreciate it. From Jerry. Jerry's in Germany and works in the medical distribution market. And so that's good to hear that he as well is happy to hear that we're not replacing the other show. Just another, just another option that we have. But we get together. As we started to mention earlier, we get together every week. We've been doing it for two and a half years now on around the Horn and wholesale distribution and manufacturing. We send out a newsletter that goes with that each week. If you'd like to get that newsletter. And that newsletter is covering topics in the news on the economy and supply chain manufacturing, distribution, sales, marketing, e commerce, mergers and acquisitions. And it goes on and on from there. If you would like to get that Newsletter. A couple simple ways to do that. Just request that if you're on LinkedIn and connected to any Tom or I here, we'll get that out to you. But you can quickly and easily on LinkedIn if you're there is just search around the horn and wholesale distribution and and manufacturing and the page will come up for the newsletter. You can subscribe there. You can send us an email@helloadsmartech.com and we'll get that out to you as well. And then the last way and also simple is the website for the show which is www.aroundthehornpod.com and we will do that. Lastly, before we dive in and start talking and putting Brendan on the hot seat here is we can't do our show each week if it wasn't sponsored by the company that Tom and I work for. Our company is called Leadsmart Technologies. Leadsmart has developed a product called ChannelCloud which is an AI enabled CRM and customer intelligence solution that is solely developed for wholesale distributors and manufacturers. There's two different versions of that product. What we do with that is we bring siloed data from around your organization. We bring that all into a single platform which gives you deep customer insight, more information about your team than you've ever seen before and learn deep insights about your business and how to accelerate revenue growth and how to serve your customers better. Right now we know that lots and lots of companies out there are struggling with digital transformation. Maybe have never even dipped their toe into the water with CRM, let alone customer intelligence and AI. And with my 30 plus years of background in distribution and manufacturing and Tom's 30 plus years in technology, we came together to develop this platform. So if you or anyone you know is looking to expand their horizons in digital transformation and understand their customers better, we'd love to talk to you. So Tom, Brendan, anything to add to that before we kind of dive in?

The feeling that I've heard Kevin just comment on the last thing. Nobody's trying to understand their customers more. So you know, you're out of luck. What's your product there? Right.

Well, you know what's funny about that is we, it's astounding to me the number of people I would say probably Tom might have a better take on this. Probably 70% of the customers that we bring on have never had a CRM in their business before. So they go from old school CRM, what we kind of call horizontal CRM, to a vertical specific CRM that's 70% ready out of the box for Wholesale distributors and manufacturers and then deeply focused on their needs and how they can grow their business, which is a very different experience than most people have had historically. So. But yes, the, the buzz is there. We're going to talk about it and we're going to talk about how that relates to your upcoming event as well. But why don't we dive in and kind of just. Brendan, give us maybe some of your background and who are, who are you and what are you about and how did you arrive at I. The Industrial Supply Association? And then we'll kind of dive into ISA and a little bit further.

Okay. So, Brendan Breen Libra. You know, long walks on the beat now. You know coladas. That's right. That's right. It's not. Well, it was raining here before. Anyways. My background, for those of you who don't know, is I work in nonprofits for my whole career. So, you know, I like none of you guys, which I get to talk to you industry titans all the time. My background is in association management. And so I found my way to ISA via, you know, just picking up a job as director of operations after having worked in a lot of different fields. I work for psychological scientists, nuclear physicists, dentists, you know, you name it, they all need an association. And some of the core principles are certainly the same membership and events. But I found my way to ISA when there was an opening for director of operations. I interviewed with my predecessor, Ed Gerber, and kind of really just fell into an amazing industry. And so fast forward about seven years now. You know, I am, I am thrilled to be leading a team of eight and a half and applying, you know, a lot of the principles that I learned along the way of how to engage with members, how to create awesome experiences for them as they interact with their association, how to bring them together. Some of those things don't change. I mean, they, they are applicable across all industries. But really what's unlocked over these last seven years is kind of the nuance and the great opportunity that the industrial supply industry has for an association. I think that, you know, we've been around for 120 years as an association, which is rare, you know, and so having. Having navigated so many different times in history, you just know that there's something special here that, that keeps it surviving and keeps it going and it's. And it's really kind of a North Star. And we'll get into that. You know, why ISA in a little bit. But yeah, association guy. By background, by education, and then, you know, just now quickly becoming an industrial guy.

That's cool.

You know Brendan, you're, you're a bit of a newbie in this industry like me. I think I've been around this industry about the same four or five, six years. When you got into this industry from other industries, what hit you as being maybe special or different about this industry compared to other ones you've been in?

I think it's a, it's a good question, Tom. And I think it's a, it's a close tie between two things. One amazing companies, I mean companies that I didn't realize that I interact with every single day of my life. You know, companies that, you know, whether I know them by name or not, they are the ones that are crafting my, my cell phone. They're the ones that are making sure that the roads are paved. My car drives right there's, it's such important companies. And so understanding how important the industrial supply channel was, was the biggest, was one of the biggest. Close second was the impact of strong relationships. I mean the decade long relationships of, of individuals who have sometimes stayed at their company but sometimes moved around to different companies. Those relationships are so strong and it's, and it's so personal and you know each other's families, you know, you know what's going on in their lives. You stay connected. I mean that's truly special and not something found. Again, I've worked in a lot of other industries. I've never seen anything like, not like this. I mean everyone says that they've got that culture but man, I mean this is a family. It's crazy to see.

Well, you have probably have member companies that are, whether they're manufacturers or distributors that are probably as old as Isaac or.

Older. Yeah, older. I mean I was talking with Jeff Bigelow from Hubbard Supply. I think they just celebrated 165 years. So I mean that's before the second industrial revolution. It's kind of crazy.

That's just not that old.

I know he's aged really well.

Yeah, he looks good. Well, we'll see him shortly. So let's kind of take a step back. We're kind of talking, moving a little bit forward but let's maybe dive into talking about just the Industrial Supply Association. Who do you serve? Kind of the roles and the purpose, the charter that goes along with that.

Yeah, so I'm going to try to make this not as elevator pitchy as I'm doing here, but again I mentioned the, I mentioned the 120 years. I think that that's a really interesting point. So think about what was happening around that time.

Was Ed Gerber there at the beginning?

I'm not here to make old jokes, man.

Okay.

You know, he's, he's a mentor of mine and a good friend. So you can say anything you want.

I will.

Yeah.

But yeah, so think about what was happening at that time. Distribution was really getting, you know, ramped up in a very kind of speedy way. You know, there's interstate commerce happening, there's telecommunications crossing state lines and, and there was a need to create a lot more synergies between manufacturers and distributors. And so ISA was really born out of that need and it's really remained true to that. Today is. ISA is the only, the only association in our space in the industrial MRLP product space. So think about safety cutting tools, metal working, all that. It's the only one that has as equal stakeholders, manufacturers and distributors and IMRs. The reason for that being is there really needs to be a place that serves the greater purpose which is the North American manufacturing community. And the best way to serve that is not by advocating for the individual needs of one part of the supply chain, but the whole thing together, working together to navigate the choppy waters at the end user. So I think that that's really been our calling from day one in 1902 and it still remains today is, you know, let's make 1 plus 1 plus 1 equals 10.

I like that. That's great.

Yeah, it's great.

And you've got, you mentioned earlier eight and a half people. It astounds me the, the things that you guys can accomplish with, with that, especially when it comes down to your event, big of your multiple events each year. We're going to talk about those in a little bit. But let's shout out to Destiny and Joby and few of your team members that really get some cool stuff done. You, you've brought, you brought a nice group together.

Yeah, I mean there's. Apart from me and Destiny, I think that those are the two kind of holdovers from the previous administration, if I guess for lack of a better term. But you know, everybody else has been, you know, in the last several years. But yeah, Joby, Christina Bertino, just, just Dibiaggio. I mean these are people who are just fighting way above their weight class. I am unbelievably happy to have such a talented group to support isa. And you're right, I mean, I've had associations that I've run that had 25, 30 people and they've never been able to accomplish what these eight and a half people can do. So they're phenomenal.

Very good. So let's kind of take a look, Brennan, about this and maybe just unpack just a little bit more about the channels that you serve. Right. We think mro, maintenance, repair, operating supplies. You'd kind of mentioned a handful of verticals, but maybe you could kind of unpack that a little bit more. And I'd love. What I'd love to know is, and I don't think anybody needs to know the exact numbers, but you had discussed distributors, manufacturers and independent manufacturers reps as well. How does that kind of break out as a percentage of membership as well? Ballpark.

So we're roughly representing 500 companies or so. And these are, you know, if you look at the manufacturer side, they're product category leaders and representing, you know, the premier companies in the channel. On the distribution side, we've got every square inch of North America covered by, you know, some of the best distributors in our industry. If you look at percentages and breakdowns, it's probably 60, 35, and then 5% IMRs. So 35% distributor and then the rest manufacture or just IMRs.

Okay, tell me that one more time. I kind of didn't catch that.

Did you say 75, 60% manufacturers, 35%. Did. Does that math work? Yeah, I didn't catch it. Yeah, you did totally wrong.

That was me.

I mean, we're riding the M and A wagon a little bit on the distribution side. I mean, we are retaining, which is good. So one company buys another company and we keep that member, which is.

That's a great, great point. I wouldn't have thought about that. I'm glad you brought that because of the M and A activity that's out there and hopefully, you know, with the. Some of the constraints that are hopefully being removed from some of that, that we've seen, especially with the larger companies that we've seen with previous administrations. Hopefully we see more freedom within M and A going on.

That.

That's a great. That's a great metric. Is that a metric maybe even you and your board look at.

With.

With, you know, retention through acquisition?

Absolutely. I mean, we track it every year just because it's. It's a topic of conversation no matter what. But also, you want to. You want to understand what's happening down at the level. The other thing that I'd say that is unique here is that we're really not looking for scope creep as it relates to our vertical. You know, like, there are great Associations over there in pipe valves and fittings and in H vac and in electrical and plumbing. And, you know, we, being industrial, could really try to look at a lot of these other verticals. And we think staying true to who we are and focusing in on the relationships within is really important. That said, we've got really great relationships with those organizations, and we collaborate, chat all the time.

Sure.

But, you know, it's important that we are serving our market and making sure that we. We're not just grabbing members who really wouldn't find a whole lot of value interacting with our members. I mean, it's important.

Well, I'm appreciative of you saying that. And it ties to a conversation that we actually had at one of the large buying group, one of their events. And I've talked to a number of friends and customers who kind of think they can cover all of their needs for the industry through the buying group. And then you've got probably others who think they cover it all through the trade association. And really what you were working on as a collaboration in these settings, I think to say, no, no, you need to do both. And when you do both, you get the best of everything.

Well, it's just their. Their apples and oranges too. I mean, especially if you're talking about buying groups. I mean, what they do in the rebate space and what they do for independence are. Is phenomenal. I think it is. It is good work and, and much needed. Our purpose is just different. It's not just for creating a transactional relationship. It's serving an entire industry. And so we want to have that kind of lens and focus. And then as we do that, we work kind of hand in hand with these buying groups to make sure that we're not competing and not overlapping in an area that doesn't make sense for our mission. So, yeah, I mean, again, the staying true to who we are, I think it keeps us focused on what our members need and doesn't just go and look for more members. I mean, the. The number of members isn't important. Somebody said to me one time, bigger is not better. Better is better. Which is, I think, is a good phrase, huh? Yep.

Very good. Well, we had a question.

The.

That came in from Sanjeev here that asked about, would you consider PPE Industries part of the ISA Canvas?

Oh, yeah. 100. So I would say, right, yeah. 20% of our members are probably in the safety market. So gloves, eyewear, fall protection, all that stuff. I mean, we are. We are fully outfitted in ppe.

Yeah. And a handful of folks on your board as well, I think are. Are tied to safety and ppe. Even. Even maybe some. Some large industrial distributors that may say industrial, but they do a lot of. You know, Tom and I actually were traveling a few weeks ago. We were visiting a customer in the Southeast. And the title and their. Their name is construction, but you walk into their showroom, and it's probably 75% safety.

Thank you very much. COVID 19. I mean, I think everybody got into that game because it's what the end user just desperately needed, and then they saw it's a good fit. And so all of these core industrial distributors are now industrial and safety. They're bringing on safety specialists. They're, you know, investing in this side, and it's probably the fastest growing part of their business. But, yeah, it's. It's a natural, natural spot here. Sanjeev, it's very good.

Appreciate that. Appreciate the comment. Tom, you want to catch that other one? It's kind of funny. And, yeah.

What we were doing here.

Bob, welcome. Not to worry. This is a special episode. It is not replacing Friday, but now we can book in the whole week.

Right.

We have Monday and Friday.

Right. I feel like the pitchforks are coming out for you guys. If you can't, you can't mess with perfection here.

Well, that's, you know, what's so funny. And I mean, this is the. But the beauty. The beauty of doing this secondary, you know, as we call it 2.0 of around the horn is to dive deeper. We couldn't have had, in the 20 minutes we've been together, we couldn't have covered as much as we've covered with you. If you were a guest, you were just a guest on the show a few weeks ago. Right. We didn't get to dive deep about Isa and Bob, to you and those that weren't here at the beginning of the show, is this is our kind of inaugural event. It's kind of we're dipping our toes in the water, but we wanted to offer a secondary show that kind of went along with what we do each week that allowed us to kind of look at particular verticals, particular guests, and as Tom always says, dive deeper.

Twitter is going crazy. I mean, people are just going nuts on Twitter wondering why we're here on Monday. Kevin just can't.

I can only imagine.

Yeah, there was at least 3 or 4 comments. Perfect. Anyway. Hey, Brendan, talk to us a little bit about. This is, I guess, part of the deeper dive, right, that we want to be doing what are the trends that you would see across the board, not just with distribution, but manufacturers, IMRs in the industry? Is there a trend and are you seeing a lot of emphasis on growth in the area? Like, is there, where, where do you think people are really putting their attention, say over the next next year or so?

It's a big question there, Tom. I could go many, many different, but big ideas, right? So I, I think that I'll answer the last part first. I mean, I think that companies are seeing the kind of turbulent waters that we're in right now. The savvy ones are seeing it as growth potential. Some of those manufacturers out there are looking at this as a share grabbing time. Some are looking at as a way to sharpen tools or invest in new things that they haven't been able to do or prepare for when that demand comes back. I think that the, the trend there is, yes, growth is, is always going to guide here. If you're not growing, you are shrinking. I don't think that there's a flat in there, but as far as like how and what are the levers people are pulling, I think I'm seeing a lot more people investing in their people as a differentiator. And people have said that for a very long time. But you're seeing some real action in this way. And that's not just investing in some of the great programs that ISA is putting out there and opportunities to engage your employees. But I think that there's a real recognition that again, going back to the, probably the biggest event of our, of our, of my life probably is the COVID 19. There's a big pendulum shift and maybe some of it is shifting back right now a little bit. But what wasn't lost was the value of good people to navigate through tough times. It was on the backs of collaboration and on the backs of strong minds that those companies that got through it, got through it that way. So I think that, you know, filling up your pipeline with good talent, understanding where your gaps are, understanding what core competencies you will need as opposed to what you used to need, are a bigger thing. I mean, you're not hearing the term HR director as much anymore. It's now like talent management or you know, people optimism officer. Yeah, that kind of stuff. So it's encouraging.

Do you, do you, you know, you've probably heard Dirk Beveridge and his, you know, focus on people. Are you seeing that sort of movement, you know, that he advocates where, hey, let's not just look at this as a 9 to 5 you come in and do your job, but how do we actually develop that talent and, and regardless of the role in the organization.

So what I love about what Dirk does and I want him to continue to doing what he's doing because it's, it's, it's not an easy battle. He's fighting uphill because people are, have to run a business and that business is a lot of times filled with numbers that they have to hit. But what Dirk is doing is he is shining a light on who is making up those numbers and he's telling their stories, he's sharing their passion for the company. I mean all of these things are important. Do I think that we're all the way there? No, I think that we've got a ways to go and we have a, you know, probably more people's minds to change around how, just how important their people are. But I do see the pendulum continuing to move that way. Just need Dirk and others to continue to offer opportunities for the people of the companies to tell their stories and to participate. I mean maybe they're not sitting in your boardroom and you know, picking out your go to market strategy, but maybe they're coming up with an idea for new product or maybe some way of making your company more efficient. That is huge. I mean that's somebody that's passionate and cares about your company, not just about their own employment. So I think people need to harness that.

I think that's a great, great point. What's interesting that makes me think about that as well, Brandon, is that talking about Dirk and you know, I guess we'll promote him a little bit this morning too. You know, Dirk will be a great guest for this 2.0 version as well to talk about this deeper in his passion. But you know, with his We Supply America tour, I think just even watching those videos and if you, if you don't follow Dirk on LinkedIn, Dirk Beverage, he's somebody you should be following and paying attention to. He just does such a great job of really getting to the deeper thoughts on, on people versus you know, to your point earlier, Brendan, so much more than HR and but what I've looked at that is watching some of the videos and he's been, you know, past season he was with some of our existing customers and some of our current prospects that are looking at lead smart technologies and our software. But literally I've never watched one of those and not walked by one feeling good about people in general and humanity and the industries that we serve. But two is thinking, thinking about hey, they're doing something really great with their people. Right. Whether it's events that they throw or how they manage things, or, you know, you talk to truck drivers that have worked at the same company for, you know, 45 years or whatever it might be. Right. There's a reason that they stay there. And so I think what Dirk's work is doing is great. I'm glad, Tom, thank you for bringing that up.

Yeah. And I think that, I think that also ties. And again, interested in your take. Brendan is right. A younger workforce coming in as well. Right. This is, I mean, people are. The old timers or so to speak, are retiring. There's new people coming in. And one of the things that Dirk is saying is it's been hard to find those people that want to come into the industry, so got to adjust accordingly.

Yeah. And culture matters to those people as much as they want to leverage technology and look at the numbers and bring everything down to data analysis. They want to show up to a place that they enjoy, where they enjoy being with people that they enjoy. You know, one of the biggest things I heard was from a very large manufacturer who had a policy for freedom to work from home if you wanted to. And the number one cohort of individual that showed up to the office every day was their under 30s. You know, so that, that kind of tells you something is that, you know, there were. Yeah, they thought it was going to be the more senior people or whatever, but they were thirsty to interact. They're like, look, maybe they just went through college being separated because of COVID and they're like, now you're going to keep me in my tiny apartment somewhere? No, I want to be around people. I want to go to happy hours. I want to interact with people. I mean, that's important. It builds that culture, builds that sense of purpose.

Yep, yep, that's great. It's a great comment here from Jason. Appreciate that. You know, and the big plug for an ISA event, right? There's. Every time he's walked away from an ISA event, there's something about the industry and the people in it that's really inspiring, motivated, even the young ones. But I gotta tell you, I always say 30 plus years, but for me, I started for an industrial safety distributor in 1989 and three years there, owned a rep agency for 10 years, sold that, invested in a manufacturing company, then eight or 10 years there full time and stepped away from the day to day of that company, started doing some advisory work and then now developing our company. Tom, you know, is a Technology guy, but he's been involved in, was it 2016, 2017. I think Tom, you first kind of got involved in wholesale distribution and manufacturing.

Probably the first time I got exposed.

And so eventually we're going to get Tom to come to an ISA event as well to join me there. But there is something special, you know, and, and I, I tiptoe around the technology world as well. And it's not that there's anybody bad there. I go to, you know, SAS software CEO conferences multiple times a year and some other technology related events. And it's, it's, there's nothing wrong with that. There's just a different vibe and you don't see necessarily in it. And Brendan, we'll talk about this in a little bit, but your emerging leaders program, right, you're, you've got the, the 3Ms. And the Stanley Black and Deckers and some big distributors that are putting their people through that. These are people that are coming to a career and looking to stay somewhere for a long time. We look into other industries and people are very comfortable with changing jobs every, you know, 12, 18, 24 months. And, and there is a different camaraderie, a different thing that happens within. And it's not just the industrial or MRO segment. We see it in H Vac and we see an electrical as well. It's a culture that goes across that there's something special to Jason's point.

Yeah, for sure.

Very good. Let's just kind of dive in a little bit. The last thing when we talk about people that I would love to ask you about and you may or may not have feedback on this, so don't feel like you're on the hot seat. But you know, we came out of the pandemic. There was a whole lot of people that were not interested in coming back to work because there were still subsidies and other things going on. Some people just weren't ready to go back to work for regardless of the reason. Are you. So hiring got very, very difficult, whether it was for a forklift driver or a salesperson or an accounting clerk. Do you have any feedback or take on. You see that freeing up a little bit and is hiring getting better?

I wouldn't say that hiring is getting better. I think it's still the number one challenge, you know, is that skills gap. And we're hearing that not just from our manufacturers and distributors and IMRs, but also the end users. I think it's just hard to find good people and the competition is really tough. Other industries might offer, you know, A little bit more name recognition, maybe a little sexier industry, something like that. But I think that there is more work being done. Some of the manufacturing influencers that are out there, and I'll call out a couple of them, like, you know, Chris Luki or, you know, Titan Gilroy. Some of these guys are really making our industry, I think, more attractive to people. And there, it's, it's, it's. It's connecting to a purpose, something you can hold, something you can feel. And so I do feel like there is good work being done promoting manufacturing as a great avenue and a stable one, too. I think that that's the other thing is, is we're an industry that isn't, you know, trying to grab at the first opportunity that's out there. We have been around for a long time and there are very mature companies that are here that have navigated through a lot of this stuff. And so there is a great career path that's in front of you if you choose to come here. But, yeah, I mean, I. So I don't think it's gotten tremendously easier. I think that, you know, as. As much as the job report says, whatever it says, I think, I think the feedback and the drumbeat I hear is, yeah, it's tough to get good people and then it's tough to keep good people. I think that people have options and they. Especially good people. And, you know, job hopping is. Has been a way that you can move up. Although today I saw something on LinkedIn that said that job hopping salaries are now, you know, don't expect to get a bump from a job hop. So that's new. I think that that was the way that people were moving up. But, yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, I think that we offer something in this industry that is very attractive. You know, a good opportunity to learn a lot of things and to do something that really matters. You know, do something that helps planes fly in the air and cars drive to work and people, you know, just surviving every day based on the things that we do. That's important.

Yep, yep. So I got a. I want to add to that and I want to ask Tom a question related to that that kind of ties these things together. And man, this is, this is why we're doing this deeper dive. Right. Because we can look at a topic.

I'm seeing the quality of the. I mean, the level. I shouldn't say quality.

Yeah.

The level of the questions are getting deeper, which are great. I mean, that's.

And we barely were able to promote today. So that's great. Tom, I want to, in a moment, I want to get to Jason's comment there in a moment in question. But before we do that, Tom, I have a question for you. Is because you've spent your whole career in the technology world up until the last say eight years or so and you still have toes dipped in over there as we look at the job bouncing that is far more prevalent in the technology world, the software world and so forth, and maybe even some other industries outside of manufacturing and distribution. What, what's your take on that? And the reason I asked that is part of me wonders is, is it there's a stronger, deeper, longer culture in these companies. There's not a hey, is my funding running out soon because I'm in a startup or whatever it might be, or third, is that this is the one that really runs into my mind. I'd be love to hear the thoughts of our, our audience is, is it because sometimes when you talk about manufacturing, distribution, we're talking about physical products and things you can hold or the airplanes that I get on or the roads that I drive on or whatever it might be. So Tom, I just, I'm throwing a lot at you all at once, but I'm interested in your take from being.

From originally, from a different objective. Right. I don't, I don't know any technology company that I've ever been associated with or even know that is generational and family owned and has passed down from one generation to another. And they, you know, I, I believe, and you guys can correct me if I'm wrong, is a lot of these companies, when they started and when they do start, are looking at the long haul. Right. They're looking at building a company for the long haul that could be multi generational or if nothing else, you know, employee owned. Right. For a long period of time. It doesn't exist in the tech world. Right. The tech world is hey, how do I get to my next funding round and how do I get acquired or how do I go public and then it's over. And it's a very different set of objectives. So, and so the people, the culture, everything is very different when you're in for that sort of short sprint versus that long marathon, which is what we have here.

Good. So I guess I just need to send Jason a check because Jason's question kind of led to where we were going there to start talking about digital transformation and AI and so forth and that was where we were going to head next. So Tom, will you Mind highlighting that for us? Yep. So Jason's. And Jason is a. I'm gonna promote him for a moment. World renowned e commerce expert, speaker, writer, consultant, I guess would be Jason, if I didn't catch all that.

Right.

You can add a additional comment in there. But just curious about how I think this is ideally to all of us. But I'm going to start with you, Brendan, on this about how we're seeing the industry evolved in, you know, a time where things are moving so quickly. Right. And. And that is a great question because forever, right. We. We worked with. In. In distribution, right.

We had.

Inventory was kept on a, you know, a printout page of a, you know, handwritten walk in the walk in the warehouse and writing down what we see and. And a clipboard on a wall or other people walking around with three ring binders. And, and that was generations and generations and generations that were doing that. And, and now we've got things like, you know, digital transformation in general of the technology that's available, whether it's, you know, AI or not. We'll put AI aside for a moment. There's so much technology that's available to wholesale distribution and manufacturing that most still aren't even taking full advantage of, forgetting about the AI component. So maybe let's dive into that and talk a little bit about what are you seeing. Brandon and Tom and I can share some of our thoughts, but relating to digital transformation and then we'll plug the AI piece in as well.

Well, I.

Again, Tom asked me a really big, huge question earlier now, thank you, Jason, for asking another super tough question to answer, but I think that the. What I'd say is it's such a wide spectrum. I think, you know, we were talking. I don't know whether we'd already started broadcasting here today, but maybe it was right before Kevin was mentioning he was working with a pretty large industrial distributor. Maybe it was H Vac, who's never had a CRM and they're hundreds of million dollars, you know, and so even something as simple. Well, not as simple, but even something as. As kind of table stakes for what you feel like you need in order to run your business. There's. It's not just a lack of wanting it, it is the understanding. All right, can I stop what I'm doing right now? Invest in it and then get it going. And then there's the people component of it, too. Can I get my people wrapped around this? Is it going to slow them down? So I think that there's a lot of fear about Doing it and doing it at the right time. And how disruptive is this going to be? Is it going to touch profits? But I think that everyone hears the drumbeat from smart guys like you and other podcasts and other things.

Yeah, I knew that.

Okay, that, that are kind of raising the alarm. It's not even like a, hey, you guys should look at this. It is, you must, or else somebody is going to, to eat your lunch tomorrow. Now I do think we're a little bit insulated in some ways in the, in our channel because there's such a high level of, of technical expertise around our, around a lot of our products. And that makes the value of that technical expertise and even sort of that tribal knowledge of our industry kind of really, really important and something that a website might not be able to replicate or, you know, even, you know, someone that doesn't have those capabilities calling on them. I think that it is, there's still a place for the manual part of this business that has been happening for 120 years. That said that middle of your budget, that, that cost of goods sold and some of the parts of your P and L that are below that top line, I mean there are savings that are out there. And so that's a differentiator for sure. If somebody can spend half of what you're spending on, you name it, marketing or IT or operations, any part of that, they're going to take some share because they can invest more in sales, so they can invest more in top line growth, which is going to be really, really hard to compete with. The margins are already super, super narrow. And so if somebody can expand their margins or redeploy that margin gain, it's going to be tough to compete.

Tom, we can't hear you.

About now.

It's a good thing Will Quinn's not here. He'd be poking at you.

Yep.

Can't hear you, Tom. Do what I do, Brendan. Every day like this just.

It wouldn't be a show without my microphone going away in my back.

It's part of the, the allure and.

It'S not even the mute button that I wish I had.

People wouldn't even show up if this wasn't going on. Right. So I wanted to hit Bob's comment here and then I wanted to bring up something that I think ties into what you were just saying. You know, what Bob's basically pointing out is, hey, are we becoming overly dependent on tag not paying enough attention to human to human aspects of it? And what I, and I think there's actually the best of both worlds. You mentioned tribal knowledge a minute ago, Brian. And what I see when I work with our customers compared to what I've seen in my previous life working with tech companies or outside of this area, we are very data rich and we're very tribal knowledge rich. And you combine those two things together, there's a tremendous amount of power not to replace the human to human aspect of it, but to actually augment and enable the human to human aspect of it even further. And there's very few industries that I've seen where you have this data that we have this treasure trove of data, but we also have a treasure trove of because we're of tribal knowledge. That again, this is what really makes AI powerful is data and knowledge. Right. And to be able to bring those together, I think there's a monster opportunity that doesn't exist in other industries.

Well, I would add to that, Tom. I would think that with Bob's question there, you know, weren't there, you know, before act right. They probably won the original. I think I was using act in 98, 99, 97 somewhere in there in my rep business and simple to use good glorified contract manager, early CRM and, and yeah, there were multibillion dollar deals probably being done before that. I think where we're at now and particularly in the world of distribution and manufacturing is. I don't. And this was great, Brendan. This is my, I think it was my very first. I mentioned this, I think on our show last week because we were talking about on the 1.0. We had a news article last Friday about virtual reality goggles in, in manufacturing. And I, I think it was the very first ISA event I participated in. It was virtual and I can't remember the gentleman's name, but I think it was from Fullerton Tool and they were talking about through the pandemic they couldn't go on site. But a big part of where their cutting tool business is is looking at applications of how does this CNC machine or a lathe or router or whatever it is, what is the job application. And their engineers need to be on site to help their end users with that. And they did that through VR glasses. But you know, I, I can see a place 10, 15 years from now where we still have that guy going on site, but he's got augment augmented tools that are helping him or maybe he doesn't need to go as often. So I think, you know, when we think about manufacturing distribution, the idea of technology is critical Right. And you, you, you had a great example a couple of them earlier, Brendan, about that from a, you know, how somebody can leapfrog ahead of others and you're at risk of the little guy becoming equal to you or bigger because of doing this. But I don't think we're in a place specifically in and really a lot of it in the industrial and MRO arena where you'll ever lose that on site need.

Right, I agree. I also think, you know, looking back over the questions or comments here, I think that there's a natural tie between what Bob said and what Jason said around, around this. I think that yes, we have a lot of tribal knowledge in this industry. A lot decades and decades of experience of understanding exactly when to do the right thing, knowing the full interdependencies of the channel. But a lot of that is, you know, looking to hanging up in the next five to 10 years. And so what I think is going to help with that knowledge gap is some of these technological advances. I think that some of the ability to harness all that data, which didn't exist before but might have been sort of second nature to the purpose to the person that had all that tribal knowledge, they might have just felt the impact of what the data was going to say that younger generation doesn't have that experience. And so by having access to the aggregated insights and to be able to connect the dots through all their systems, that can help a younger generation make decisions faster, just as fast. And this industry is going to need that. So I do think that to tie it together, the generational shift is going to obviously probably grab on to that technology. But I don't think it's to replace their decision making abilities. I think it's help them where they don't know everything and give them better insights.

So two things I would say that go with that. I think you're right with that. Right. And I was just talking last week with a new customer of ours at Lead Smart, that's a large electrical distributor in the Midwest and we just had this discussion. Right. They may not be seeing these exact numbers yet, but roughly 70% of B2B buyers are millennials. Fair to say that some similar number to that on the other side of the house of when you think about salespeople you're going to be hiring similar number to that. And he was saying, and I'm now hearing this more and more and more, is that salespeople in particular, whether it's inside sales, outside sales, customer support, wherever it might be, that is A younger group of people coming in. Brendan, you mentioned retirements and so forth and makes perfect sense. And they're starting to ask what is the tech stack, so to speak. What tools do you, what CRM do you have? What ERP are you on? Because it's important to them, because they understand how to leverage those to do their job better. And it's, it's raising the bar for some of these companies to jump on board. Now I'm going to say that and I'm interested in both of your thoughts or any comments that want to come in. One of the biggest challenges I think that never gets talked about, that distributors and manufacturers face and, and I see it much more at the distributor level is that people are buying shiny objects that say AI or ERP or CRM or marketing automation or whatever it is without a plan. And they're at risk of getting what we always refer to as login or click fatigue. Right. Because we buy all the. We talked to a distributor probably, I just remember probably a little over a year ago and they had like six or seven different software tools that they're, that they and their mobile apps that they were expect literally from. Like here's how, here's where I stand on my commissions. Right. Really challenging. So I think there's a caution that goes with that of over buying or buying too quick without having a digital plan.

Yeah, I mean I think that the shiny object thing is real. I also try to put myself in some of these decision makers shoes. I mean I run a small team and my team is at 100% capacity at all times and to think about what is required to go out, invest in research, invest in selection of the right tool and then in implementation. And I'm sure you guys are different, but every single software vendor is going to say, don't worry, we're going to do everything and we're going to make it super simple and it's going to be turnkey and like it is the. Not you guys, not lead smart, you know, lead smart. You guys are hand holding the whole thing. But I think that, you know, if you're talking to a company that is in the middle of an ERP shift or some sort of migration, it's not a happy conversation. Nobody is loving that. And I think that that's something that is unfortunately going to be a stigma that we are going to need to fight against. If technology implementation is something that we know we need in order to keep this industry going, how can we make technology implementation, dare I say, fun or something that yeah, that's what Tom does. But it's a dirty word right now because again, if I wanted to put something new into my system, I'd have to either invest in a consultant or I'd have to retool somebody on my very small team. And that leaves a hole. And so. Or it makes them work harder than they already are. And how do you do that? And then to have somebody come back and be like, yeah, you've got a bunch of weird technology. We're like, we are barely keeping pace. And yeah, I should probably just cut that one because we're not using it anymore. But I'm just trying to run my business, which is not a technology company, it is a association or it is a distributorship. I'm trying to get product out the door and in front of my customers. And. And if you tell me in eight months, I'll be able to do it better. Okay, but what's the eight next eight months going to look like? Because they're really important. I don't have long runways, I don't have a lot of extra capacity.

I mean, that's an excellent point. And I think that we, as service providers to the industry, you want to call it that, we need to, we have a responsibility, I think, to help them. Not just make it more fun, but make it more efficient. Because as you said in the beginning, Brendan, I think there's becoming a point where it's no longer an option. Right. So how do you do this without it becoming a open heart surgery that causes everybody to be out of commission for God knows how long? It impacts the business. And I think it's, it's balancing that, that is something that I know we work a lot on, but it's not, it's never ending. Right. We have to keep getting more efficient and better on that as well.

And it falls on the leaders a lot of times. It falls on the decision maker. That said, I'm going to buy this thing to keep up company morale, to remind people what the end product looks like. Because as you guys, I'm sure are aware, everybody hates the new tool when they first have to have it. You know, when they're forced to give up their old thing and it takes a while to bring them around. The only reason they stick with it is that the leader is telling them this will end up being better. Just trust the process, keep going. But that's hard, especially if the person already has a full time job that they're just trying to do good.

All right, guys, we're running kind of running short on time. So I want to shift gears here real quick. It was good discussion on all that. This is probably the hardest question for you of the day, Brendan, but we're only going to spend a couple of minutes on it, so don't worry about it.

Great.

I think your event, which is where we're going to lead to next, but I think your event and your organization does a phenomenal job of bringing all parties in the channel together. Manufacturers, distributors, manufacturers, reps. I've had careers in all three of those. There has historically been, and in my mind it has gotten a little bit better. There has historically been a rub or conflict specifically about data sharing and so forth and between manufacturers, distributors, and then you end up with that independent manufacturers rep kind of being the bumper car oftentimes within all of that. Do you see that? And I don't even want to call it channel conflict, but do you see things improving in collaboration, data sharing and so forth across the channel? Kind of dive in on that and share a few thoughts. And then I want to spend our last few minutes today talking about the big event coming up later this month.

So the answer is yes, I do see that. I think that technology has allowed for a safer way to share data. For one, you know, you're not just like putting together a spreadsheet and hoping that that company doesn't share it around or sending it to the wrong person by mistake. Seeing that happen, you know, I, I think that there are nice cloud based ways that data can be shared and analyzed and really the aggregate comes out as opposed to just, you know, the, the critical subject matter data. I also think that there is, there is a little bit more of a, an of acceptance that it requires collaboration. Maybe this is a generational thing. I don't want to make it about young versus old or anything like that, but I do see that they, the ultra competitive firewalls that were there are seen maybe a little bit less on the younger generation. I think that they're like, well, can I learn something from my competitor? Can they learn something from me? If I fill up their cup, maybe they fill up mine, you know, So I think it's, it's, I think that there's a little bit more of a, of a feeling like, all right, if I share this, am I really harming my company? Am I really giving up trade secrets or is it worth taking that risk? I, I see that happening a little bit more. That doesn't mean that they don't compete still there.

It's just getting better. Yeah.

So I think that it's happening.

Yeah. And I think the big push on it was, you know, when I, it's, I got out of manufacturers rep business in 2003. But you know, back then the technology wasn't there for everybody to know who everybody is. Right now you can't, you know, there's boatloads of tools out there to go find who Joe is at that factory, whatever. You're not hiding any information. Right. If your manufacturer is going to go direct, he's going to go direct. Right. It's, it's not that you can't get that. So we only have a few minutes left. Let's spend our last 3, 4 minutes of the day. ISA 2025, last day of this month and the first few days of next month in Nashville. Give us the deep dive on, on what's going to happen there and what people want to be taken away and who should be there and why should they be there.

Yeah. So if you caught Kevin's show last week, I did get into this a little bit. So definitely go back and watch last week's show for a little bit more in depth. But I'll just say that you're going to be surrounded by your industry. If you're there and, and you want to be part of what is happening in this industry, there is so much headwind and opportunity tailwinds too that if you're not being with your channel partners, being with your, your even your competitors or complimentary products or just people that, that are genuinely trying to understand where this industry is going from a lot of different angles. You're missing out on the opportunity to figure out what to do with your company. Everybody has a roadmap. Everybody has somewhere where they want to go and pick a point in time. Let's say 2030. What do you want to do, you know, from now until 2030 you might learn that at ISA, you might explore something that helps you refine that. And so great education topics on, you know, state of the channel, different ways to get your, your people networked in. There's phenomenal networking experiences, there's subject matter roundtable discussions over lunch. We have NAW's lobbyists, we have ITR's best and brightest. You know, this is a action packed two and a half days where not a single moment is wasted. If you invest the time once you're there, all the opportunities from in front of you, from the moment you pick up your badge to the moment you drop it, there is something for you to do to get value. You Just need to be there and be part of it. Join your community. Because honestly, this is not the year to, to stick your head in the sand or to think you can go it alone. You need to be with your channel partners, you need to be with your industry because, man, I mean, there's crazy stuff happening in the channel. I know we didn't talk about the T word once today, and thank God this is, you know, every call.

But.

That'S the kind of thing, that's the kind of topic where you just need to be talking to people, you know, you.

Yeah, so you've got, you know, highly respected economists, they're talking about the economy. You've got Brian Wild from NAW coming to talk about what's happening on Capitol Hill. You've got Kevin Brown coming to talk about a. I'm sorry, you got some great panels, right? You get some end user panels, you got some technology panels. I'm privileged to be on one of the panels. Great event. Isapartners.org is where you can go check in on that.

Right?

And so we start on Monday with golf and then a riverboat thing and then Herm Edwards, famed football coach. It's going to be a great event. So, hey, let's, we gotta close out for the day. Brendan, any last words before we go?

No, I mean, I think we, we broke the seal on 2.0, guys.

Hey, I'm a little embarrassed, Brendan. And this goes to Bob's comment here, but by the way, I'm a harp guy. Just.

Harp is my, my answer to that, too.

Brendan, I think, you know, you and I, if you look at our, our lovely faces here, we seem to have a little bit of an Irish heritage, I would think is safe to say. And, yeah, neither of us have an ounce of green on. And maybe, maybe you do. I just don't see it. But I said I don't. I'm kind of embarrassed. So I'm sorry.

I'm not, I think. And this is what I, my wife said. Wait, you're going to be on camera today? Shouldn't you wear something green? Mean. I said, I wear the map of Ireland on my face at all. I do, too. I don't need to wear. I mean, everybody knows where I stand on these things, right?

Yeah. So, well, well, it's funny. We have down in San Diego today, we have Lead Smart's quarterly board meeting. And our kind of chairman on our board there is very Irish as well. So this German is going to be out of whack today with these, you know, the other group that's going to be there.

So everybody's Irish today, everybody.

So yeah. So to Bob Britton's question, is most important question of the day, Guinness Harper Southwick's red and it's a harp for me. So.

So just to correct. Yeah, just to correct you, that is pronounced Smittics.

Okay, well.

But anyways, I'm a Guinness man through and through. Sorry, Harp is good, but there's something about the, the OG Guinness. So. But anyways, thanks for having me on, guys. Slantia, that's awesome.

It's been a great time. This has been fantastic. Initial episode. Again, to everybody that's listening to the recording. Later, if you're listening on. Just lost my train of thought. Apple, Spotify, Amazon, or any of the normal podcast platforms that you would not have seen these three handsome faces that we were just talking about today. But we appreciate you being with us. This again is around the Horn in Wholesale distribution and manufacturing 2.0, which is not replacing the Friday morning show.

Everybody on Friday.

We will see you Friday. Watch for your invitation if you're not coming, we hope to see you then. So again everybody, thanks for being with us. Had a great crowd with us today. Great questions, Brendan, hope you weren't on the spot too much today. Appreciate all you do for the industry and I will look forward to seeing you in a couple weeks.

Sounds good. Thanks guys.

Appreciate it. All the best, everybody. Be safe, be kind and do good things.

See ya.

Thank you for listening to around the horn 2.0 and a special thank you to our guest this week, Brendan Breen of the isa. If you enjoyed the podcast, we'd appreciate it if you would leave a review as it helps other people to see discover the podcast as well. Also be sure and join us on our YouTube channel, LeadSmart Technologies. And please be sure to join us for our flagship podcast, around the Horn in wholesale distribution, which you can join on LinkedIn Live every Friday. Around the Horn is a production of the Act 3 agency.