Plug Ski Boots with Brent Amsbury

On this week's Big Picture Skiing podcast, I actually interviewed Brent Armsbury, master boot fitter, about plug boots. Now these are the race boots that both Liam and I are wearing here. Uh, they're very thick, solid, uncomfortable to begin with, and Brent and I talk everything you need to know about getting a pair of boots set up. Now Liam was just saying like he's going to need to leave at 3 o'clock because his feet are getting sore because he's in the early stages of setting a boot up like this. But aside from the pain, which you kind of need to go through, what were the positives on your first time, like, carving with them?

Uh, it was kind of like a night and day between these boots and my old ones. Uh, I got so much, like, performance out of the boot at the end of the turn that, like, the boot would hold up. I wouldn't fold through it, and then I was able to transition all this energy from one turn to the next, and it was—

Same ski, right?

Yeah, nothing changed, just just the boot, and it was just a completely different feeling.

They're extremely powerful, right? The boots are very, very powerful. And there's, you know, we, we can talk about that, about, you know, what makes them more powerful.

It was like a really rewarding, like, uh, something I want to chase in every turn type of feeling now. Yeah.

Now, uh, Liam is actually the perfect person for this type of boot. He's going for his Level 4 Australian ski instructor certificate, so he's a good skier. If you're really chasing high performance turns, maybe you're right into carve, or you're an instructor out there trying to push, push your level, getting into this boot is going to help you achieve that a whole lot easier, right?

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

Yeah, it allows you to do things in skiing that you couldn't do in a boot that you're going to fold every turn.

That's right. So anyway, without further ado, let's get into this podcast episode all about plug boots and see if this is maybe something you want to do yourself.

Judd Brandt, we're here today to talk about plug ski boots. Okay, so this racing type of ski boot. Now, if you're watching, listening to this, is this applicable for you? Who's the kind of person that would consider a plug ski boot?

So the first thing we, we really have to establish is that, I mean, these boots right here, they, they're the top. They are the absolute pinnacle of the performance level available out there. The, the plug boots that you can buy, maybe you go into race shop, maybe you can access an order form or you find them online. These are almost exactly the same boots that a World Cup racer would use. So if you're looking for the maximum performance level that's available to you, this, this is, this is the boot, right? You might be a Masters racer, you might be a very high-level instructor looking, or somebody who's looking to train into racing, or maybe you're, you want to lift your CARV score way past the 140, 145, right? You're already, you're knocking on 145, you're looking for 150, 160. You know, 165, right? That is probably going to be the boot. And if— or you're driving race skis, right? You just like race skis. FIS, non-FIS, masters level. Your goal is to make race skis work. This is, this is the right boot to match with that ski.

Quick comment on that one. That's when I really noticed, like going into a plug boot versus the because there's a step between this plug boot and the sort of recreational race boots that kind of look a bit like them. And, uh, and I remember going to this one, which is, is a like a World Cup boot, and feeling the control over my carve skis step it up. It's like, oh, now it's not the ski— it sort of matches the, the ski a whole lot better. It was easier to drive.

Yeah, yeah, they're, they're definitely, um, extremely powerful, right? The boots are very, very powerful. And there's, you know, we, we can talk about that, about, you know, what makes them more powerful, um, because they look just like— I mean, it's a 4-buckle boot, right? You pull it out of the boxes, it's like—

let's talk about the kind of the anatomy inside. Like, what, why, why is it called a plug boot, for instance?

Well, it all comes from the, the internal, right? Like inside. If you— when you look at these boots, one, they look like they have a very narrow profile and they do. So the inner plug, when they put it into the mold, that's the smallest, right? It got this nickname like that. He— to make this boot with a thicker shell wall so it could drive, it could send energy, they put the smallest last or the plug inside and injected it. So you came out with a boot with really thick, you know, really thick walls, really thick spine. Everything about the boot in terms of the way it's shaped is very narrow inside, but very thick plastic. And so what happens is that if you want to get the foot really close to the plastic, you kind of have this sort of block of wood, block of plastic that you can then grind in shape in the foot shape, right, to get the release you need in certain areas and zones. But the boot itself is different, right? It's, it's manufactured different in its angles compared to your freeride boot. I think one of the first things you— when you look just the numbers is that the forward lean on these boots is higher, right? They're coming out of the box., you know, 6, 14, 16 or higher degrees of forward lean depending on the, on the spoiler. But they're going to come out of the box at about, you know, 16 degrees of forward lean. That's way higher than a standard Freeride boot of, you know, 12, 13, or 14 degrees. So you've got right away more forward lean and a much taller, a much taller rear cuff. Okay, so it goes way up, much further extended up the back of your leg for the reasons of support. If you're going to go fast in these boots, you know, you want this to be holding you so that you stay on top of your skis. Okay. You know, speed skiers, they even extend them even higher. They put in braces, carbon fiber braces. We come off a jump at 80 miles an hour. You do not want this boot bending back and getting you behind the ski. So these boots with the thick spine and the taller back will drive you. It'll make you feel like you're being driven over the tip of the ski a lot.

Okay. The— yeah, you go ahead. Next one.

Next. Yeah. So then there's, you know, internal ramp angles. Ramp angles inside here are pretty standard compared to most of the industry boots at about 4 degrees. Some models will offer 3.5, just a little lower. And so the— but the boot board inside and the bottom of this boot is a PU-injected hard foam that's designed to actually be ground down. Okay. You— it gives you this range. Most racers tend to reduce their ramp angles to close down their ankle to get a faster response. So the boot is designed to have you change the ramp angle that you feel is most appropriate. You can add to it. Very rarely anybody will do that, but most of the time they will actually drop the ramp angle down. You'll start at that 4 degrees and may find yourself going to 3.5 or 3. I've seen 2, right? So, um, the boot is designed to be able to change the angles from forward lean to ramp angle. And then the biggest thing you're getting with these boots is this big block of plastic sole. Okay. When you get a box and you pick, you know, you pick your boot out of the box, you instantly feel they are heavier. Yes, there's more plastic here. Some of the, the, the Team models even have an extended sole. They have 5 more millimeters of plastic extended. So you get a built-in lifter and more plastic to do canting and, angle changes on, but you get a very thick sole that controls the torsional rigidity of the boot. And that's what you're really— this is one of the big features of a plug boot, is that very thick solid sole on the boot.

Yes, I would say that's a real noticeable thing, uh, like a felt thing, is that, that inability for the boot to really twist compared to some of the top-end yeah, kind of performance boots, freeride boots, those things, yeah, can, can twist a whole lot more, uh, easily. Um, yeah, and I know, I mean, I was in New Zealand just the other week and having to carry these in my backpack, they weighed a lot more than Archie and Jenny's boots, that's for, that's for sure. My son picked up, he's like, God, Dad, your boots are so, so heavy. So it's a consideration, right? You're getting into, in, into these boots, they are a lot, a lot heavier. But then that kind of does give you a felt sense of also kind of being quite grounded, um, for carbon speed. Yeah, stability feeling.

And you're getting a different plastic, right? So these boots are all made of a PU, but it's polyether-based plastics instead of a polyester. Actually, there's a lot of PU boots out there made with a polyester base, and they're a little deader, right? They're not quite as reactive. So the polyether, um, when you look at the price tags of these, you know, they they have retail price tags of $1,000 to $1,300. But what you're getting is the best possible plastic the manufacturer can formulate for these boots. It's absolutely the best stuff. It's, it's amazing to work with.

It just—

yes, you know, it grinds, punches.

Yeah, yeah. Because I suppose we should go there next. If you're going to go down this road, it's a project in a box. That's what you said to me, and would totally agree. I think I'm over 24 hours of accumulated time spent on my boots. And even I, after being away in New Zealand, I need to come back and there's a little spot I've got a punch that after skiing 6 days in a row, it was just, ah, I just need a little bit more room. Maybe a punch has moved a little bit. But speak to this. Okay, this sounds great. I, I want to push my carve scores. I want to get my highest level instructor trainer cert. I need these boots. Well, what do you need to expect? You can't just buy the boot and go skiing, can you?

Yeah, no, they're 100% a project in a box. They're, they're not going to— you just don't open it up and, you know, like a standard freeride boot with GripBox soles, you know, and a cushy liner. You can just warm it up, you know, or go to the shop, they heat mold it, and, you know, you can just go out and ski in it, right? Very little, you know, problem, right? It's— you're not going to get like— you're going to be able to get through the day. These boots, your first thing you notice is how narrow they are in the midfoot, right? They're really, really narrow in the bottom and narrow in the midfoot. And they're just clamping your foot. So you're going to do— have to do some fitting, right? The average foot is going to need, you know, around the the pinky toe, the sixth toe, around the ball of the foot, you're probably going to need to go in and do some reshaping. Ankle bones in here are usually quite tight inside and outside. It's not uncommon to have to go and do a little extra shaping on those. So you're going to have to spend some time reshaping the boot. And then the boot, the boot soles themselves, you look at the Head Boot, they got the two holes right here. These are made for lifters, right? You can put you can put the standard race lifters on, but some of these boots actually have a Vibram alternative. All right. Or you can even put a GripWalk on it if you wanted to make it more of a broad spectrum free ride boot. But you're going to need to put toes and heels on it. All right. They don't always come flat. Not every one of these boots in the industry comes perfectly flat. It depends on the production run. When I talk to colleagues, they'll be, you know, and they'll be sending out Facebook messages going, hey, have you seen this boot? It's not quite flat. It came out of the box kind of twisted. And so when you, when you get a pair, you know, first thing you do is put them on a table, perfectly flat, smooth table, and see if they're rockered a little bit. And that's not a cat— that's not a catastrophe, right? That's, that's like, oh, there's a little twist in it. And you'll need to go to a shop with a planer that can go and just lightly knock down the high point on there and get it trued back up. That's part of that project process. You just can't take for granted that this boot's going to come out of a box and sit true on a flat, flat surface.

Yeah.

So you'll need, you know, grinding, shaping, lifters, whatever your choice is. Right. And then, you know, fine-tuning. The cuff, the upper, the upper cuff canting, right? The cuff adjustments, they usually come with cams. You can bring them 1 degree out, 1 degree in, half degree out, half degree in like yours, right? You've got specialized.

Yeah.

Little cams to get the angle that you want. But these boots, plug boots usually come with a set of cams that can generate appropriate amount of upper cuff angle and you'll need to get that set because these do sit higher up on your leg. I mean, they will flat out feel it. You know, you'll need to get that fine-tuning. You can't take it for granted. And the liners are so much thinner, like you're up against plastic, you're not on a cush, right? So they don't sort of self, self-adjust.

It's like everything's given there, right? Like, yeah, if the angles aren't right, it's going to push your leg or the ski a certain way. So the, the precision you kind of need to be looking for in your fit goes up. And, and so there's, there's another bit of time you need to invest, um, to get that, that performance out of it.

Exactly. So there's, there's definitely time and dedication that you'll need to get these set up. And even when you think you've got them set up, you'll need to go back, right? You spend 3, 4 days in them and, oh man, something around the heel or something around the ankle bone isn't you know, it's not quite there yet or a little painful or even just not allowing the foot to articulate right, you may have to go back and do continue adjustments. So that's why I say the project in a box, right? It's, it's not a slam dunk. I got a pair of the best, you know, high-performance boot out there, ultra performance, World Cup performance. You just put your foot in and go. It just rarely happens. And if you did, you probably got the boot too big. Right, because these boots are— they're made to be downsized. You're supposed to be as tight as you can possibly get, even in the toes, and you've got to reshape the boot internally to get it just right.

And that's partly why you reached out now, because we spoke about this a couple of— even mid-season, North American season. You said, Tom, I think now's a good time, and we're just about to hit August, to discuss this topic because you want some time to not be stressed. I'm going on snow next week. That's not a good time to go and get these boots. It's like, get it in the fall so you've got plenty of time to feel it out and, and go back and forth with, with your boot fitter to, to get it right.

Correct. And there's an availability cycle as well. So these boots, they start becoming available to the you know, the top elite racers in the spring because they've coming— they're coming off their season, their stuff's junked out and now it's— maybe they change brands, but— or they're going to go testing. But boots start, you know, being available in the spring. In North America, they become available in the summer to fall. So these boots, if you come in and say, hey, Brett, I'm looking for this boot, you know, get me in a plug boot, you know, I can go to the distributor and say, okay, let's take a look at what they've— what they've got. And their inventories are usually much fuller from now until September, October, um, and you can then get your hands on these boots. Come December, they're wiped out, they're gone. Every, every racer, every kid, every, you know, Masters racer, um, instructor, whoever, you know, whomever, right, who's looking for this boot, have— they've, they've locked onto, onto a pair of boots.

Um, you know, it's a Yeah, yeah, it's a considerable investment if you are going to go down this road. You were mentioning like that boot you're holding, what is that, do you know roughly retail?

Yeah, like they're, they're going to MSRP, right, $1,000 to $1,300, right? But that, you know, that's where they say if just straight across retail. Um, if you're a USSA racer, you're going to have access a little bit lower price.

Um, if you also mentioned that, yeah, another option. Yeah. Do you want to speak to that one too?

Yeah. So, um, in terms of the boot itself, like you can find these at lower prices if you're willing to, of course, not take this year's model. All right. Um, some of these boots get purchased or they go through the hands of racers, sponsored racer. They may get a few pair. And they just end up living in a box for 2 or 3 seasons, or the distributor has a bunch of extra product and they release it out to an online retailer. For example, I could probably go to the internet right now, find a 4, 5, 6-year-old model under $200. And guess what? They're still great. They're, they're, there's nothing so revolutionary about these boots in the last 20 years, that means that this year model is that much greater than one from 6 years ago or 7 years ago.

Yeah.

You know, I could take, I could take a Fisher, you know, like a first year Fisher Podium from 2013. And I know the plastic's still great as long as it was well kept in the box and controlled environment, didn't live in a hot garage. That boot's going to be No problem. Any brand. I'd have no problem grabbing a $199 6-year-old model and set it up.

Yeah.

And so, yeah. So that's, that's a way to, yeah, get into it, right? Like if you're like really scared of the project in a box for $1,000, $1,300, and then you got all this other work you gotta do on top of it, you could, you could be looking at $2,000 to $2,500 when you're all done. That could be really scary. Where you could find one for $199 and then put the, the time and energy into it, um, without breaking the bank.

That's right. Yeah. And there's, you know, this boot now, uh, I was saying to you before, it doesn't feel like— or I'm not noticing it getting too dead or anything. The plastic is holding up really well. Like, they're built so solid. Once I've got this right, I do not want to really change this boot for a while because it's, it's— I've got it just right of performance and comfort, uh, in the middle there. And it feels like it's still going to keep giving me some more seasons as long as I kind of keep it out of the sun when I'm not skiing on it. And yeah, so they, they definitely have a longer shelf life. These things are built tough.

Yeah, they, they have a longer work life, right? Um, yes, racers tend to burn through them, but they they train a lot harder on them. But if you're using as a freeride, I, you know, top-end freeride, top-end boot, you can go hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of days on them, right?

Yeah.

Just taking care of them, replacing buckles, replacing toes and heels, replacing the power strap, the liner. Right. Pretty common to have to after a season. These thin liners pack out and get very thin and broken down. You just upgrade it to a zip fit. Right? Yeah, go to ZipFit or get an original liner for it, but you can easily upgrade the liner and then get another hundreds of days out of it.

Yeah. So then, do you want to speak to the little nuances between the brands? If, uh, so say you are in one shop only that has certain brands available, or you're looking at some, uh, 6-year-old boots, Atomic ones. Yeah, do you want to speak to, to that so people I guess, get an idea of if there's a great difference or not.

So I, if I, just from my opinion, and I think it's shared by many race coaches out there, the Lang and the Rossi are kind of like right down the middle. That's like the reference standard. It's, it's very common for race coaches and race kids to be like, the coaches would be like, just, you know, if we got questions about the equipment, we just put you in a Lang and Rossi and then we work out the, the details later. And they're right down the middle. When you're looking at the other brands out there, you know, Head, I mean, the Head's got a ton, you know, a ton of victories, but the boot's a little bit different in terms of the flex on it. I would say, you know, the back is just a little higher. You know, the forward lean and all that is pretty similar, but the boot's not quite as neutral. I would say as, as the Lang and the Rossi, there's a different feel from the boot when you ski on it. It's very— the comments I get is it's very light switch. It's on or it's off. It's on or it's off. Okay. And so I think bigger, heavier, you know, stronger athletes and skiers may appreciate this boot a little bit more. Like if we go to the Atomic, I know, you know, with the Atomic boot, it seems to have a little lower cuff. There's quite a few variations of, of their plug boots. They've got the STI, the TI. So they've got different hinge points and different variations, you know, where they kind of separate. This is more for a female athlete, this is more for a bigger male athlete. But yes, there's women who are on the, on the bigger Siffer boots as well. But their boots are a little bit different.

All right.

The Fischer, right? So the Fischer, the angles are a little bit different. The forward lean's a little bit higher. The fit and the shape inside is a little more open. If you have a wider, chunkier foot or taller foot, the Fischer seems to kind of do really well for that. If you're really pencil-y, the Fisher doesn't seem to attract that, that anatomy very well where the, the Atomic and the Lang Rosi seems to work better for a slimmer overall, overall profile. And then we've got the Nordica and the Tecnica, you know, the Tecnica Doberman been around for decades and decades. You know, the latest iteration's got kind of a cool liner with a lacing system that kind of pulls around the ankle. That boot I would also put as a little bit beefier. All right. I know the plastics on it quite, quite firm. And so once it cools down, you get it operating. It's a, you know, it's a bucking bronco of a boot. It's quite, quite firm. And so lightweight skiers may find themselves better off in looking at the, the flex choices in a Lange and Rossignol where the Nordica is just brute. You know, quite brutish. I think they've, they've changed it. Dalbello makes a World Cup plug as well. And though it's not hugely popular, for some, some athletes and some skiers, it seems to work out perfect. Right? Just the way the boot's set up. Again, you either like it or you don't.

Okay. Any comments on the other— so you sort of mentioned a little bit on the wide, but you know, that like person that has the really low arch, flatter foot? Because I know, I mean, I don't know, maybe I'm sort of in the middle, but I definitely noticed when I got on the Fischer, the Fischer really sculpted under my arch and I had to broaden it under here to not feel like I was kind of being pushed to my pinky toe edge. Um, would you say, yeah, any, any advice on, on those ones? I mean, I don't want to— I know a lot of people like maybe from China, Japan, like their feet tend to be that sort of not that European, you know, Norwegian high arch or that. That's right.

Yeah.

Any advice for those ones? Because those people are going to need to do, do a bit of work to not be in pain.

It depends on how much contact you have. I mean, almost every boot has— every plug boot has quite a scallop. Um, I do notice that on the Lang and Rossi, they pre— they've actually pre-shaped it internally. When you look down inside, you'll actually see a bump has already been put in. And then on their Plus series, they've already actually shaped the bottom of the boot to be a little bit wider. The way it's shaped doesn't curve back in, it actually curves down to a hard edge. And so if you, if you've got a little wider or a little more fleshy foot, it kind of drops in the boot a little bit better in their Plus series. Boots compared to their non-Plus series boots. But we're only talking a couple of millimeters. I mean, anybody who's got a lot of flesh on the medial side of the foot or the navicular really sticking out is going to have to have modification.

All these boots. Yeah.

Yeah. I have seen skiers with very fleshy feet and they just wedge themselves in here with very little work. And then I've seen others with what you would think be like Wow, that, that should go in there. No problem. And then we just end up grinding, you know, just grinding and shaping. It's just your compression tolerance. How much can you handle for X amount of time?

Yeah, that's a good point. So then what about in your experience speaking to someone coming in with their Atomic, their Nautica, being like, here's my project, Brent, help me. Do you have any preferences? Like certain ones are easier to grind or punch, or they're pretty similar in that respect to work on?

I find them all very similar. I mean, the most important thing is do you have the right size? Right? And these boots out of the box, your toes should be right up on the end, like, literally a little smooshed at first on the end, because your heel, your ankle is not all the way back. There's no way you can't just put these out of the box and the ankle's all the way back. You've got to work that liner. You've got to go in, do some shaping to get everything to pull back into the boot properly. Especially in the navicular area, you can get really locked up in there and you're not all the way back in the boot. So these boots, if you get them, you got to make sure you are wall to wall internally. And so then the space is made. If you're— if they're too big, then it doesn't really matter the brand. They're not going to function properly in terms of like working on them. They're all the best plastics, like it's the best stuff. And so any boot, any color, any brand of the top level is, is great to work on. It's, it's wonderful to get in there and grind and shape and punch. It's very— you can be quite creative with them. So I don't think, you know, I'm not going to, you know, I don't discriminate. And it's like, oh, you've got this brand versus that brand. It's like, no, are we in the right size? Yeah, right. And we in the right and in the right flex. Okay. You know, if you—

yeah, that was the one. That's probably— any helpful hints there? Because you'll find, do you get the 110, 120, 130, 140, 150, 170? Um, you know, yeah, any hints on, on that one for, for people?

I think if you're lightweight, you've never had one of these before, if you're any lightweight, you're going to be looking at the 110 model for sure. There's a lot of performance in the 110. And you've never had one of these, you're 150 pounds or under, 160 pounds and under, the 110, right? It's a great entry into it. You're over 150, 160 pounds, you just get the 130, right? We can always notch it a little bit to tune the flex, but the 130 is going to be more than enough boot to handle. If you've got experience with these boots, you've actually spent time you're not your first pair, not your second pair, and you want even more responsiveness, then yeah, the 140, 150, 160, you know, sure, bring it on. Right. But if you're lightweight, I mean, if you're under 150, 160 pounds, you're never going to go past the 130. You don't need it, right? I don't— I don't see athletes or top-level skiers over— under 160 pounds wrestling with a 140 very well. It usually doesn't turn out okay.

You've answered this before, but I can't remember the— this— how they make a 110 versus a 130 boot, say, in the, in the podium. It's not just thickness, is it?

Also, the thickness always stays the same. It's just the formulation. So you add stiffener, you've got this really good polyether, and then you just add stiffening material to that. So the formulation, right, they don't make the boot thicker, they just add material that makes the boot stiffer.

You got the same blank to work with, amount of grinding potential out of it, out of a 110 versus a 130. Uh, it's just, okay, it's just the, the agent they mix with it to, to harden it.

And they make them softer, right? Like, like Lang and Rossi, they make them down to a Z Soft, like a 100 flex. You can get very soft flexes in the Atomic. You get soft flexes in the, in the Dalbello as well. The head, right? The head comes down to a— they call it WCR 6, which is— it's pretty stout, little, you know, 100, 110. But they do make a wide range. Some of the manufacturers offer them even a short cuff version. A actually shorter cuff, uh, plug, plug style. Um, but so you kind of have to understand your anatomy a little bit and understand your, your, your strength to weight ratio, uh, before you choose, before you choose the boot.

Oh yeah. Juniors, any, um, differences there? Do you get a junior plug boot or are you basically just in a short cuff? Kind of ladies like size.

Lang Rossi, they start off with their Z Soft. That's their junior version of it. So it's a very soft flexing boot. Other manufacturers do offer a shorter cuff version of that, especially Atomic. And then the, the Head offers the WCR 5 and 6, and those come with a shorter cuff already. So they're assuming that your U14, U16 is going to be— they're not fully grown out yet, and they know they're going to be lighter weight and they're going to be smaller in that tibia, shorter in the tibia. So they do offer a shorter cuff model, um, for, for growing athletes.

Yeah. Okay, great. I think that's kind of covered all the, all the bases, right, for the person that is thinking, I want to upgrade my boots to go with my upgraded skis and push my skiing or push my instructing certificate. Uh, it's a project, uh, as, as Brent mentioned, and you can go all in with the latest one, but you need to order early. But there is an option, like you mentioned, you know, maybe scour the internet for, for that, uh, older model plug boot. And yeah, just go find a, a good boot fitter that's ready to, to work with all those different places Brent mentioned you're going to need to adjust.

And don't forget to buy heaters and heated socks because these things are heat sinks.

That is a really good point. I, yeah, would, would concur with that massively. The heated socks, I think, uh, especially I'm more of a fan of that than the heated insole thing. I don't, yeah, but either way, right.

It's whatever your preference is, but these are not known to be warm. No, they're not. That, that solid lug of a sole just pulls heat out of the boot. So do a night training or you're going to do any night skiing and any, you know, or even out in the morning, uh, they don't lend themselves to like 8-hour sessions. All right. It's, yeah, they, you, you, you have to put some creature comforts into them, uh, like a, a neoprene cover, heated socks, heaters, right? To, if you're gonna go bell to bell with these boots, you, you kind of gotta give them some creature comforts to, to be able to do that with.

Yeah. Well, that's what I, I definitely wanna mention. Like this, this boot, I can still put it on in the morning, ski all day, and even stick around for a bit of après. So my point there is they don't have to be boxes of pain for your feet. You just need to spend the time to, to adjust them and really create that perfect sort of space for your foot, which is actually quite possible with, um, with this whole plug setup. So I just want to mention to people, it's not part and parcel that you get in this boot and you have to put up with the pain for the performance. No, no, no. You just need to spend more time maybe with the boot fitter to work on these little nooks and crannies and spots. Would you agree with that one?

Absolutely. Or you can take it on yourself. I mean, if you're, you, you're a woodworker, you've got workshop skills, buy a Fordham, right? You can just get them on the internet. You can get a carbide ball. You can get a boot opener. You can make your own tools. You go in there and just grind away on your own. And learn, uh, you, you know, careful as you go. But if you're going to take one of these boots on, it's— I almost recommend it. You kind of learn what's going on inside there. Um, and you can— I mean, if you don't have the time, that's— I get it, go to your boot fitter. You don't have the skills, go to your boot fitter. But if you're crafty like you are, like you do a lot of your own work—

I do all of it. Yeah, I do all of it.

Yeah. Okay, so um, you can learn how to do the work and kind of do the work to maintain that fit or to modify the fit as you go.

So yeah, yep, that's right. Especially if it— like, now I, I love the plug boot fit, and so that Fordham grinder and the little bits that you suggested to buy now is a great investment because as soon as the next boot comes along and I've practiced on this one, I can go in and do it. And, um, but yeah, working with a fitter first to maybe even just go in and just watch them you know, do you mind if they're not too busy, can I just watch you grind that navicular spot or whatever? And yeah, yeah, go from there. Uh, but yeah, if you're invested in it, that's a— the tool, your own tools, good, good option for, uh, for future.

But it can be done. Yeah. Yeah.

Thanks so much for, uh, for your time, expertise, and knowledge. If you— if people are looking, they're in the States or want to come see you, can you just give a shout out of how they find you, where you are, the website, booking procedure?

Sure. Park City Ski Boot, located in Park City, Utah. You can go to our website, parkcityski.com, fill out the little form submission and, you know, give me your story and ask for an appointment. The season basically starts now. I mean, I'm setting up boots for South America and Australia and going into the fall. So yeah, if you're, if you're looking for this performance level of boot, give me a shout and, uh, and we can get started. You know, at the very least we can get the conversation going.

And you know what I thought it would be a good idea, idea too, is anyone that owns a shop that can do all this sort of stuff too, maybe if they could leave a comment or a link to their, to their shop as well, then kind of got a place where people can maybe check other places, uh, around the world in Europe and other parts to, to find a boot fitter that can work with a plug boot. So yeah, correct. Yeah, leave a comment of your, your website and shop.

Yeah, not every shop is capable for this, right? So yeah, um, but there, there are shops all across the United States in the ski zone that are more than qualified to work on these level boots all the way from California to Vermont. There's a list of fitters. And if you can always reach out to me, say, hey, I live in this state, what's the closest qualified plug boot, you know, level, you know, fitter out there? And I can always, you know, guide you to, to that shop or that specific person.

So fantastic.

Hey, I'm Tom Gellie from Big Pictures Skiing. And my goal is to help improve your skiing. I have a learning platform and an app that is designed to help you utilize your time off snow so you can maximize the time on snow. So I put so much time and research in the best coaching methods, really good visuals, simple drills, feelings that allow you to watch, say, a 10-minute video the night before you go skiing, go out the next day, practice the drills, practice the, the concepts, and your skiing is going to level up. Now don't just take my word for it. Through all the Google reviews, about 9 out of 10 people say that they've improved their skiing through using Big Picture Skiing. And more than that, people go on to say that they often learn more through the Big Picture Skiing videos than with real on-snow lessons that they've had in the past. So anyway, don't take my word for it, go check it out. But if you're a self-driven learner, you love your skiing, you find enjoyment through improvement and getting better, just like I do, then I think you'll really enjoy Bupitsa Skiing.

Go over and check it out.