Ep.05 | "Doubting Yourself"

Hey, what's going on, everybody? This is Daniel. I'm your host for the podcast today, the Lead Fast podcast, and I'm joined with Tommy, as always.

Hey guys, what's going on?

We are going to dive back into some more conversation on the couch.

We have a phone call. I think, I think we're gonna try to do a phone call.

We may have special guests, we may not. So keep your ideas there. Never can tell. But no, we're gonna get back some more conversations on the couch. We got a good one today. I say good one because it's something that I know I've dealt with before and I'm sure anybody who's been honest has probably dealt with before. And conversation on the couch, for those of you don't know if this is your first time watching, it's a series we do, we release on social media. It's usually like a minute, maybe a little longer, maybe a little shorter and just covers a general topic. Some wisdom behind that. And then we don't really get to go into like too much detail because it's social media. But here we're going to go into detail. We'll unpackage some stuff, break some stuff down, get into some like real thought provoking conversations that seemingly come out of nowhere. I mean, like, it really, it's been good.

I mean, I've really enjoyed sort of these last couple of weeks of doing this because me too. Who knew what we would talk about? And I mean, obviously we didn't. We weren't planning any of this and we don't. I mean, honestly, if you're watching on YouTube or you're, you know, listening to us on Spotify. They have any notes here? Nope, absolutely not. My phone is only here to queue up the video so we can watch it together. But we don't have any idea what's going to be said, what we're going to talk about. I mean, and we have also the, the yellow cards. So we have these like yellow card questions and they're sort of the dreaded yellow cards because, man, they like, what was the last week's was or the episode three was like, when did you become a man? When did you become a grown up? Like, that's such a thought provoking question. So anyways, they make us cry. We try not to do that on air, but it doesn't always work.

But you can't, you can't control everything. So if we cry, we cry. It is what it is. Yeah. And so basically, you know, like a lot of stuff happens. I Mean, like, I learned. I've learned some stuff. I'm not gonna spoil what it was. But the last one, I learned some stuff about the human body that I didn't know about. And so I'm gonna leave that as a mystery so you guys can go back and listen to it. But you will learn stuff about business. You'll learn stuff about life. And that's why I'm here. That's what I'm doing. So let's go ahead and let's dive into this conversation on the couch, and we'll get going.

Hey, guys, what's up? It's Tommy, and this is sort of our conversations on the couch here at Lead Fast. Today, we're going to talk about doubting yourself. Like, doubting yourself is normal, but letting it stop you. That's a choice, right? Like, I get up every day and think, man, can I really build this organization? Can I really do the things that are in my heart to do and create leaders and impact people? I don't let that doubt stop me. I still drive in every day. I still walk into these offices. Connect with the people here that are trying to make your life better and get on mission. Don't let doubt stop you. Don't make the choice to give in, get up, get going every day. It's what we do as leaders. We make the hard choice to move on in the face of doubt. Look, we believe in you at LeadFastCo. If there's anything we can do for you, feel free to reach out. We love you guys. You're making great progress. That one's hard.

That is very hard. And I know that because I live that indecisive life. You know, you put me. And this may be just my adhd, but you put me in a store. This is where I've noticed it happening. You put me in a grocery store to pick out some cereal for either myself or my kids. And I will sit there and I will look at all the options that are there.

Analysis, paralysis.

That's what it is.

That is.

Did you just make that up? Okay, well, that's. That is the term that goes on one of the. Because I'll sit there and, like, I'm sure people think I'm crazy because people will see me on the aisle and they'll just kind of be like, okay, this kid's got that look in his eyes. Let me just wait. And then I'll see him go back and forth, and I'm still like, oh, wait, there's chocolate. There's chocolate Lucky Charms and They'll put the ones I've got and I get. So I'm always like. And I know this is completely not what you were talking about when you said down yourself, but I feel like as a business leader or in business, in any kind of opportunity like that, you grow, obviously. And the more you grow, the more responsibility you have, the more weight your decisions have. And so essentially, it's kind of like you're getting more and more serial choices. But so doubting yourself, why is that such a big deal? Why is it so bad to doubt yourself? Because everybody does it.

I mean, I don't know that it's bad. I just know that it's natural.

Right.

And so I think that there's always. There's a healthy level of unsurity. It's not a word.

It's a word now.

It's a word now.

Write it down, folks.

There's a. There's a healthy level of being unsure that motivates you, that makes you go, prepare.

Yeah.

You know, like, and I'm not a big preparer. Like, it's not my style. I would always rather come off the cuff.

Like, I've learned that about you.

Yeah. Yeah. I'm not big on preparation because it's. That's where it seems like, it always seems like work to me. Everything else seems fun. And then preparation seems like work. But that always also puts me in a place where I'm also scared and I'm doubting. And I. I know, because I know that I'm not prepared. Right. So preparation is the enemy of doubt. So if you. If you want to doubt less, prepare more. Right. So that's one practical thing you can do if you want to doubtless prepare more. But then the other enemy of doubt, the other thing that kills doubt is failure. And not specifically failing, but surviving it. Because people are doubt because they're scared they're not gonna win or they doubt they can win or they doubt that they're gonna be successful. If people would just realize that not being successful or not winning, losing is not the end. Yeah.

It doesn't kill you.

It doesn't kill you. Then you would just try more and you would be more comfortable failing because in less doubtful because you would realize, like, oh, it gets easier. It gets. It gets not. The losing gets easier. Like, no one ever. Like, I would feel so bad if someone got accustomed to losing.

Right.

The winning gets easier the more you lose, because the more you lose, the more you know not to do that again. And then the winning gets easier next time Right.

Yeah.

And so doubt, doubt becomes this thing that disappears. Like doubt should be temporary, I think. I think doubt should be temporary. I also very, very lucky that I have, you know, parents and specifically my mom, who since birth has been basically telling me I could do no wrong. And, and at some point in time you believe them. Right. Like, like if you get the same message over and over and over. And it wasn't like that nothing I did was wrong. It was that I could do anything. Right. I mean that was more the message. And so like she always just pushed me to say, like, you can do anything, you can be anything. You, literally anything you want to be, you can be. So, so I just believed it. And so at some point in time I quit this whole idea of like, doubt is bad because I would just go try it anyway. Right?

Yeah.

And so doubt, I mean, doubt's one of those things that I still like. I mean, I recorded that a month ago when we were just getting started. And I still get up every day. I came in today, I laid in bed for like 15 extra minutes today trying to talk myself into getting up and getting out of bed. And this is six hours, eight hours after I sent a late night slack message to the entire company saying what a big week we were going to have. It was going to be a great week. It was excited to get it. Here are some things we needed to focus on today. One of the, being recording this and, and then got up this morning, it was like, oh, am I going to be able to do all this today? Because I'd outlined what we had ahead of us and I knew it. And it was like I lay there for 15 extra minutes and was like, had to psych myself into getting up, getting running, getting ready, all that stuff. It's just natural. It's part of the, the, the day to day ebb and flow of life. You just can't live in it. It's not meant to be permanent.

So that can essentially be good for you. I mean I, I know this about you. I can see that you, you believe you can do anything you want to do, you know, like, I know that about you. That's your personality. I think anybody who meets you, that becomes very clear within the first like five minutes. But I do think there's a way where doubt can, can hold you back. You know, you doubt yourself to make a decision or to take a step of faith essentially to do something that you've never done before, something that's like big, something huge, something that has like good potential, payoff but also the fallout if it doesn't go will be bad. So in those doubting situations, how do you mitigate your risk? How do you. How do you just kind of look at a situation with doubt? Because I feel like, you know, I don't think anybody's immune to doubt. But how do you look at those situations and just say, okay, should I do this? You know, like. Like having realistic confidence. I mean, is there such a thing as realistic confidence? But realistic confidence, realistic expectations and stuff.

I've got a bad answer for that because. Because it's only. Only my experience is all I know. And so I don't know that I would suggest this for anyone else, but my answer is always yes. We learned a long time ago that knows not a great answer when you're trying to sell stuff. So when you're trying to sell stuff, the answer is yes. But. So, you know, can you. When. When a client says, can you provide this specific level of quality? Yes, I can. Yes is always the answer. Yes, but is a better answer. Yes, but it's also going to cost more. Yes, but it's going to require more of your resources. Yes, but you're going to have to give up this other thing that you also said you wanted because those two visions are not congruent. And so I had to learn, like, you know, confidence is a matter of selling things to yourself. And so. And so when I am in a place of doubt, I have to understand that to myself, the answer is yes, but, like, can I do this? Yes, but it may require more than I know it's going to require now. It probably is going to require more.

Than I think you're being very. You're being very realistic with yourself up front and your clients of expectations, like, yeah, hey, what? We can do that, but we could fall on her face.

Yeah. And we need to understand that the fallout from that's not going to kill us and it's not permanent. And there's a great book Lee Cockrell wrote called Creating Magic. It's the story of him at Disney. And he talks about the fact that the first question, when they're faced with a hard question of should they do something or should they not? And it's, you know, whether it's doubt holding them up or is this a permanent decision and if they can reverse it, then they'll just go and do it. There are very few things in life you think in reverse the decision. Yeah, yeah. Hey, we're struggling with this decision. Should we do it? I want to do it, but I'M doubting whether it's not the right. It's. It's rarely permanent. How many decisions do you make in life that you have to always live with forever?

That's true.

Very, very few. So there are very few decisions in life that can't be reversed. And so once you get that in your head, get that in your heart, and you start living that out, doubt seems to have a harder time sticking because it's not permanent.

Yeah.

So actually have a. A great friend in Tennessee. His name's Ephraim. And Ephraim has a really great story. We should call Ephraim and talk to him about his doubt story. Let's see if he's available.

This is like, I'm soaking all this stuff in because, you know, again, I want to get in and out of the grocery store.

Let's see, let's see if he. Let's see if he broke an answer as well. Fingers crossed. Ephraim? Ephraim, you there?

I'm here, yeah.

Hey, buddy. What's going on? It's good. I'm good. Hey, so you're on. You're actually live on the podcast right now with me and Daniel, who host our podcast. And we were sitting here talking about doubt and how do you, you know, everybody doubts themselves and doubts what's going on in their business. And I was like, you know, my friend Ephraim has an incredible story of overcoming doubt in his life. So if you, I mean, we've got, you know, we take as much time as you want because it's. We're on your clock. But, you know, I told you five to 10 minutes. But I love the part of your story where you come back from. Was it South Dakota or somewhere up, like, where there's nobody. Where were you?

Oh, Montana.

Montana, right.

Where there's nobody.

It was one of those states where there are 12 people. And you came back to Nashville and, and so, like, go through that for me, like, because you came back with next to nothing, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And it just, that was, you know, looking back at my life, that was. That was probably the rockiest place of my entire life. And a lot of people didn't even know that that were close to me just because I just kind of quiet about it. But it was, it was, it was the, the night runs. The, the. When I couldn't sleep, I'd get up at 10 o' clock at night and just, just go for a run and just run for miles and just, just try to process it and things. But I think I think for me, it was just. I didn't know what I wanted to do. And I think a lot of people find themselves in that position. And I knew myself, you know, when you. When you end up there, you. You kind of lose faith in yourself. And so I was like, there's got to be a different way to restart this. And the one thing that. That always gave me hope was writing. So I just started writing out. And I don't know if I even told you this, but I started writing out two journals every single day. And I mind you, again, I had nothing at this time, but I just started writing out these. This one journal was a daily journal, physically handwriting it, not typing it, just writing it. I went to Dollar General, bought a bunch of those little notepad books or whatever, and I'd write into one, you know, kind of what I did that day, what. What I could do better and what. What I did good. I always made sure to write down something that I did good, that I could kind of focus on. Then the other one I got saying, like, what's my ideal life look like? Like, it's not where I am, but what does it look like? Where do I live? Am I married? Do I have kids? What's the money coming in? Where's the money coming from? What are my. My. If I'm investing, what are my gains? What's my return on the gains, down to the detail, down to birth dates of kids, whatever. And I just started writing. Just every day, I'd write a whole page about this life. What am I doing? What time am I getting up? What, you know, who am I talking to during the day? Who am I hanging out with? And I just created this whole almost imaginary life, if you will. But I didn't. It wasn't that I lived in that world necessarily, but it just started working on my subconscious. And then all of a sudden, I realized I had. Even though I wasn't physically in front of me because I was writing about it so much, it's been said already that your subconscious mind can't grasp the difference whether it's reality or imaginary, as long as you feel the feeling that it's springing. So you continue writing that enough, you start believing it. And so that's when it kind of started down with, okay, I can start a business. And, you know, I had an opportunity to come up, and I jumped on it, didn't have anything. And then it's like, okay, well, I still don't have any money. So you just kind of. I went to different People. So, for instance, I'll give an example. I needed a trailer. And I think I told you this.

I love the story. Yeah.

And so. But I had no money. I had 200 bucks, maybe at the time. And I was trying to start this business. This guy had bought a new trailer. So I called him, and I'm like, hey, you know, you bought a new trailer. Do you need your old one? Well, I don't. I don't know. I kind of thought I'd have it out of there. And I'm like, I don't have a trailer. I need a trailer. Will you sell it to me? Well, let's talk about in a week or two. Called him back next week, hey, will you sell me a trailer? Three or four times, back and forth. Finally, he's like, yeah, I'll sell you the trailer. And I was like, what do you want for it? $7,500. I'm like, I don't have $7,500. Will you finance it for me? So he's like, yeah, we could probably do that. I was like, look, I'll give you. I'll pay it off in six months. I'll give you $1,000 a month. I got a few jobs here and there. I'll give you $1,000 a month. I'll most likely pay it off early. But max, six months. And he's like, okay, okay, done. So I did that. Well, now, I had one truck, but I needed a bigger truck to pull this trailer. So I was like, okay, now I need a truck. So I called my brother because he had just bought a new truck for his company. And I was like, hey, what are you doing with your other truck? Well, I'm going to sell it. And I was like, okay, what do you want for it? 22 grand, I think he said. And I said, well, I want it. And, well, you don't have any money. And he knew that. He knew the position I was in. And I said, well, I've got some big jobs coming that I think I'm gonna close. I need the truck. Just, you know. You know, will you sell it to me? Well, yeah, I'll sell it to you, but, like, how are you gonna pay me for it? And I said, well, I'll pay you an X amount out of every job until it's paid for at least. You know, give me six months. And so I twisted his arm. That was a little harder, actually, but I love it. Yeah, that's. That's kind of. And those things just. That's. I just Went to everyone. You know, I think a lot of times people want something, but they're scared to ask people that maybe have what they want or whatever to. I've just never been bashful about using my resources to get what I want. And not in a selfish way or manipulative way, but just like, hey, like, look, I'll keep my word with you. Like, and it's. People will help you if you're just open with them. And it's, I think more times than not, when you end up at the bottom of the pit and you want to dig out is if you can't let go of the pride that, that I'm saying, you know what, I'm broke. I need help here. Give me a couple months to pay for this or this and that. I think people respect that more than if you just pretend like, like you're not there.

Yeah. And I think that mean, that's so good because, like when you, because you could have, you could have easily said, like, look at my situation and you could have let doubt creep in. Right. Because you didn't have any money. I think when you told me the story, you were like, you know, you were down to like less than 100 bucks, less than a couple hundred bucks, and you were sleeping on somebody's couch, you know, like, like you could have, you could have easily. And this is after having, you know, a seven figure business and, you know, and being in and out of that business and. And now you're down to like, you know, I've got a couple hundred bucks and I'm couch surfing. You could have easily let doubt completely take over, but what was bigger than the doubt was the vision for something better. And I think that when you have a vision for something better, what that does. But even killing doubt, but it also kills all the other things that are hurdles, like pride. You had to swallow a lot of pride to go to those people and be like, hey, and keep asking and keep asking. I need these resources. And you weren't asking for handouts, you were asking to pay for them. But you needed some favor that there with those guys that they would, you know, give you favorable terms on that purchase. And so like, I look at that and I go, man, like, that had to take a lot of like, humility to even pursue that course of action. But your vision for something bigger overcame all those obstacles because you knew it was worth it in the end. And I just, I admire that so much.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I appreciate that. I think, you know, doubt, for me, doubt and fear is going to come. And even to this day, it's. There's times like, you know, Covid hits, and you're like, you get that. That nagging fear in the back of your head that's like, is this. How's this going to affect me? Is this going to hurt my company? Blah, blah, blah, you know, things like that. And it's going to come. And I think it's important to not try to maybe even avoid it, but just take it, acknowledge it, but then use it for fuel. And so for me, when I felt the fear or the doubt with COVID I just put my head down and I just doubled down on everything. So it's sometimes, you know, sometimes it comes across as it's a really bad thing, but. But you can turn it around to use it for. For the good or for the better.

Yeah. And I think universal challenges all always show up as opportunities. Right? So, like, like, for example, you were talking about COVID like, you were scared, but guess who was scared? Everyone. Every. Every one of your competitors was scared everybody else. And so, like, I love, like, so you. You and I have talked a lot about this particular situation for you, you specifically. But, you know, you know, I'm launching a business in the middle of a pandemic. You know, whenever. When everybody else is, like, trying to figure out how to, like, pivot their business, I'm launching a brand new one. And so. And. And you were able to do the same thing. So, like, part of your story is that, like, you felt fear, but I love the fact that you recognized everyone else was fearful, and when they retracted, you expanded. Like, you tripled your. Like you were telling me you tripled your marketing. You were able to take three. Three or two or three competitors out of the market because they got scared and you didn't. Yeah, I think that's, like, that's a key takeaway for everyone listening is that, like, fear is an indicator of a market retraction. If you're scared, everyone else is scared. And when people are scared, they hit the brakes. If you can get the courage to overcome the doubt and hit the gas, when everyone else hits the brakes, you can take the lead. Yeah, I think that's. That's a key thing. Well, hey, just so everybody knows that's listening. Ephraim lives in Nashville, Tennessee, and he is multiple successful entrepreneur on multiple levels. But he and I became friends, and I just appreciate his insight into things so much. He has a podcast, so if you're listening to ours, you should also check out his. It's Called the Ultimate Shift. Ephraim Glick is the name. And you can find it. You can find it everywhere, right, Ephraim? It's on Spotify and all the other platforms as well.

Yeah, yeah, it's everywhere.

And he's really cool because he has this giant digital banner billboard downtown Nashville. So if you're in Nashville, run through the split and check out. Check out Ephraim's. He's a. He's a handsome. He's a handsome dude.

You'll be on there next month.

Yeah, so I'm actually gonna, you know, be one of the guests on Ephraim's podcast next month. And we're really excited about that. We had a good time. We talked for like a solid hour. Didn't use a single note. Like it was just. It's typical, you know, the way we do things. But me and Ephraim have such a great rapport and had a good time on his. On his podc.

That's so cool.

Hey, well, that pleasure was all mine.

Well, hey, man, thank you so much for just being willing to take a phone call today. We were sitting here talking. I was like, I'm gonna call Ephraim because he has great insight, he has a cool story. But man, looking forward to seeing my episode of your podcast release next month and you know, we'll promote and do some stuff together.

Sure. Yeah, for sure. Hey, anytime, man. I appreciate it.

Thanks. But we'll talk to you soon. And that was Ephraim. Click, everybody. The Ultimate Shift podcast. You can get it on Spotify and itunes and all those other places.

What a cool name too. Ephraim Click.

Ephraim Glick. Yeah. So Ephraim is a cool story because Ephraim grew up Amish until he was 18 and then left his Amish community at 18 with like 800 and some change in his pocket and just went out and made a life for himself and has. Has a great respect and admiration for his family. They're still there and like, they just, you know, they've been able to maintain those relationships and you know, and that's not always true. And like, it just. Such a cool dude had a seven figure business building these gigantic wood playgrounds for resort communities and like these like incredible, like these unreal, like giant wooden pirate ships and like slides on them and all this other crazy stuff. So anyways, and sold that business and Ephraim has been worth millions and worth nothing all in the same year. And come back to tell the story and is. And now has another amazing seven figure Business in Nashville, and it's one of the just coolest. And he's like, I don't 30, in his mid-30s. Like, he's just one of the coolest. He's lived so much life and has been so successful so far. So. Hey, we've been talking 25 minutes. Let's do a yellow card. We should have done. We should have made Ephraim do a yellow card.

So we'll just. I'm just gonna read you a yellow card because I don't want to waste all the time with. My answer is.

Oh, oh, I'm real concerned right now.

What's something you've let go that once meant the world to you?

Good Lord.

At that question.

I don't know if we can talk about that on air. Something that I let go that once meant the world to me. Well, we'll leave all the relationships out. Right? So let's. Let's leave the relationships out. I don't let go of many things, so we'll. Let's use this as an example. Just because it's not as deep as some of the other things. And I don't.

We could choose another car, too.

No, no, no. We'll talk about this. So, you know, as an entrepreneur, you. You always imagine that, like, one day you're gonna, like, oh, we're gonna have the life. We're gonna be Elon Musk or, you know, whatever that's. Those guys are so brilliant. Brilliant. And I don't know that I have the capacity to. To run an organization that size. But.

The.

When, when we sold our first company, the thing that I had always said was, I'm going to go get a Lamborghini. Like, that was, like, that was the thing that was the trophy for me was this Lamborghini. And I had pictures of it on my phone, and we talked about it in the office and, like. And so when acquisition was imminent, I took a couple of personal days and I, like, flew to la and I went to Ogara and Beverly Hills and looked at, like, their Lamborghinis. I went to Palm beach and looked at all those and Lamborghini, Broward and Austin. Like, I, I just went to a lot of the, you know, looking at the cars that I saw online and wanted to test drive.

Yeah.

And so I, I went to. I'd test driven, you know, huracans all over the nation at this point, and I knew exactly which one I wanted was that Lamborghini, Broward, and in Florida. And I was gonna. I, I had, I had set it up to buy it. Like, I'd waiting on the checks to clear and all that stuff. And had you had to insure the car before you could go down and take possession of it. They wouldn't let you drive it off. So, like, I had insurance on this car and a plane ticket to fly to Florida and was literally just waiting on my banker to call and say the check cleared and everything was ready and was driving down Washington Road here in town and. And I mean, like, literally all I'd wanted in my. This was like, the poster on the wall, kind of like kids dream coming true. And got the call from my banker and said, you know, Mr. Wofford, the cashier's checks ready. It's made out. All you gotta do is come by and get it and, you know, you're ready to go. I said, all right, thanks, man. I appreciate it. And hung up the phone. And, like, legitimately, the moment I hit end on my car and hung up the phone, I didn't want anyone.

Wow.

I just didn't. I didn't get it. I just. I canceled everything. I didn't.

What caused that.

What I wanted was life. To not tell me I couldn't have it. And the moment I could have it, didn't need was. You know how we talked in another podcast how I really have trouble with contentment? Like, it's really. I struggle with being content with having enough, but it's not enough stuff. I really don't care about stuff at all. Like, if you've seen my. My. My life, like, I've had a lot of cool cars since then, like, in and out. Like, I keep them from, like, 10 months. I get rid of them. You know, Like, I just. And I do pretty good. I'm really good with that sort of thing. And so I don't, like, lose a lot of money on them. And. And I just. I love cars. And that's sort of always been a hobby. Me and my dad have always been into it, so that's sort of my thing. But outside of that, like, I mean, I'll be honest. Right now I'm in, like, H M. And, you know, like, I'm not in, like, you know, all the. The nice things that I have are presents. And so I don't buy a lot of, like, cool stuff for me. I don't, you know, those types of things. I'm just not into material stuff, like, really. And so then what I didn't want was the barrier in my life. I couldn't imagine. There was this, like, thing I couldn't imagine, I couldn't imagine ever being able to just go pay cash for a Lamborghini, like something like that. And then once that could happen, I didn't, didn't need it anymore. And then it was on to the next thing. And it's so crazy. It was like literally the moment. So then it was like, oh, well, I need an airplane and I don't have an airplane yet. But that's sort of like. That's the thing is there's this airplane called an A100 we've looked at. You know, it takes off on land and sea and it's awesome and it's a two seater plane and has its own parachute. And that's the next thing you know, it's twice as much as that car was. And you know, so it's not even all that expensive. It's just. I don't want life to tell me I can't have it.

You'll talk your way out of it though, once you.

Oh, probably.

You know, that's what I was talking about earlier, how I feel like in business when you grow, you know, like you have more decisions to make and stuff. When we're talking about the cereal because you're talking about, you know, going to different places in the country and flying out and you know, having cashiers checks and you've got all these options to look at. I just rolled up in the Kia plant and they're like, you want the red one or the black one? And I was like, I will take the red one. I didn't have so many choices. So I think it's funny comparison to see like, like, you know, talking about growth, how the choices get bigger and then your decisions get bigger. But how also I'm still, you know, in shock that that was, I mean, I understand it, but that was the thing. It was like the chase is the pursuit. Like the fact that somebody told you you couldn't or your bank account was telling you couldn't and you proved it wrong enough to where it could tell you it could and you were done. You didn't need the materialistic thing. You just needed the, the gratification that I needed.

The lack of limits.

Yeah, that's good, man.

The fact that there was a very clear limit. I just, you know, so like for, for right now, for us, like the thing is I just want to be debt free. Like that's the. And you know, we say this almost every episode. Rich dad, Poor dad, Rich dad, Poor dad, Rich dad, Poor Dad. Go read that book.

Such a good book.

But one of the things that he talks about at the end of the book, towards the end is the difference between being rich and being wealthy. And that being rich is basically the access to funds that you have. So how much money you make, how much income do you have coming in? But being wealthy is about survivability. If all of your richness, if all of your income went away, how long could you survive? How long could you survive? So passive income, those types of things that come into your life that don't require you to work for them, how long could those things sustain you? And so someone redefined. This book was great for me because what it did is it redefined barriers. And so now I look at like income and I'm like, oh, I could always go, I could just start. I could start 10 new companies. Like, I can start, I can start a new company every year and take it from $0 to a million dollars in income every 12 months and sell it and move on. I could do that every, I can do that every year. And so, and by the way, so can you. So why wide open pitch for Lead Fast is that, that's what we do is we teach you how to go from $0 to 4 to 5 million in revenue on whatever thing that you're doing. As long as the product's good, we can make, we can show you how to run your business to get there. So that's the shameless plug for Lead Fast. But like, because I know I can do it, because we've taken success and made it a system. And so we just, we've repeated it multiple times. We're doing it again now. Like, I know that we can do it. So that's not, that's not a barrier for me anymore. Right.

Yeah.

And so now it becomes like, I quit thinking about life and in, in, in income terms. And so now it's about wealth creating wealth. Well, debt is the enemy of wealth because the more debt you have, the moment that the income stops, then the debt wins. Right? Because, and so if you're debt free or it's not, you know, leveraged debt, so that it's, you know, the debt is collateralized with things that won't affect your livelihood if they go away so that you can pay off the debt, those types of things, then, you know, now you can start building wealth. You know, we always thought like, man, I needed to make enough money that I could, this is a good example. I can make enough money that I could just pay for my kids to go to school wherever they Wanted to go, like, if Jack gets accepted to Princeton and It's, you know, $150,000 a year when about the time he gets there, no big deal. I can pay cash for it if I need to, or I could buy 15 houses in his name over the next seven years while he graduates high school. And when he graduates high school, he has $10,000 in, you know, income and a credit score that's 800. And now he's wealthier than 95% of the Americans. And if he goes to school to be a painter, he's still okay. You know, he can go to a liberal arts college and, you know, study theater like I did and, you know, try to be a community theater actor the rest of his life, if that's what makes him happy. Because daddy built wealth, right? Right. And then he can use the, the plan that I use to build wealth, to build wealth for his kids, and then no matter what they do. And so that's the way you, you build generational wealth instead of generational income. And I think lots of people focus on that. So for me, that, that reframed a challenge for me. And so now my, my life, my focus is on like building some wealth for myself and for my children. And you talk about a place where doubt creeps in, because that's an area I've never like, I. You've only ever been taught in school how to build income, how to build wealth. And so income is about getting a job, which means being the most equipped for the most, you know, prestigious job. So it's about going and getting more training and more schooling and more advanced degrees and all these other things that qualify you for high paying jobs. But there's, there's very few of those jobs available in the market, given the amount of people in the market.

Right.

So the competition for those jobs, the resource competition is so high when you could, you know, make 60, $70,000 a year, which is, you know, just above like middle class, and then inside of 10 years, be a millionaire by, you know, doing the rich dad, poor dad stuff. So, you know, for me, I look at that and I go, man, just, there's a better way. No one teaches that. But because I've never done that, there's doubt every day.

Sure.

You know, I just closed on my first rental property and you know, there's, there's doubt. Never had one of those before. Now I've got to go rehab and now I've got to refinance and then I got to flip it and get, get to the Next thing, and we're looking at buying 140 acres to do a lead fast retreat center so we can bring people in to meet us in person and stay on grounds and. And really dive into their business over the course of a week. No one's ever done that. Like, are you kidding me? Like. But here's what I know for a fact is life is not going to tell us that we can't.

Right?

No one. No one ever doing it is not an excuse for it to not be done. And outside of that, it's just a matter of will. That's.

That's the tattoo I'm gonna get.

It's the one. That's the tattoo.

This podcast.

Yeah, it's. It's just a matter of will. Like, winning is only ever a matter of will.

Yeah. Wow.

Yeah.

People give up.

That's the only. The one and only thing that you need to do as an entrepreneur to win is to just keep going. It's the only differentiator. Right. The only thing that's different between people who made it and people who didn't is the people who didn't stopped at some point in time. They stopped. If you haven't made it yet and you're still going, then there's still a chance. And your timeline for quote unquote making it may be 18 months, 2 years, 10 years longer than the person who made it in front of you, but that's probably just a lack of skill on your part.

Yeah.

Okay, so. So change the. Change the game, change the rules, get the skills and go succeed.

And don't be a pretend pioneer.

Don't be a pretend pioneer. Pretend pioneers. Next time on the Lead Fast weekly podcast.

I'll teach that one. I feel like I'm. I feel like I'm up on this.

Nice. Well, hey, thanks, guys, for tuning in today.

Yeah. If you guys want more content like this, we post weekly on Lead fast, our Instagram eadfastco, and you can go to our website, leadfastco.com and get a lot more information. Like this. Just really groundbreaking and for lack of a better term, talks a lot of good stuff to dive into. So check us out on the website leadfastco.com and subscribe to the podcast and hit us up on social media. Share this stuff with people who you think could benefit from this, and we'll see you guys next time.