The Rebellion: Episode 19 | W/Matt Webber: King of Loans

Get on your feet and make some noise.

It's time to rise up and join the rebellion with Tyson Smith.

All right. Welcome, everybody, to episode 18 of The Rebellion. I'm your host, Tyson Smith. And today we are here with Matt Weber of The Weber Group. Real quick, Matt, you guys crushed over $70 million worth of loans and like, what, 192 transactions last year or the year before?

Year before.

All right, dude, that is insane.

Yeah.

Now you told me that you had started this, what, in 2017?

Yeah. So that's when I went off on my own. I've been in the business for just over 10 years.

Okay.

But I was on a team, so I was just structuring loans like for the first 5 years.

Is this just like residential loans?

Yep. Just residential, retail, mortgage, conventional, FHA, VA, but basically just Residential, mostly owner-occupied.

Okay. So from what I've heard about this industry, and I don't have a very good idea of it, I'm wholesaling, I'm pretty much dealing with cash transactions and I haven't even bought a house for myself ever. I should say like a personal residence, bought investment properties and stuff, but that's all with like subject to and right seller financing.

Yep.

I've heard is that like really it can— it's really like market dependent. Like, you know, if like when interest rates were, you know, sub 3%, I had some guys I knew who were, you know, like loan officers and they were just killing it.

Yeah.

But then all of a sudden when the rates came up, all of a sudden they were like, oh shit, like they're finding other careers.

Yeah, yeah. And dude, it was— I don't think it's highlighted enough, like how destroyed our business got last year. I mean, it was like, to put it in perspective, so 2021, that's when we did the most. We did $77 million and we were averaging 16 loans a month.

Holy shit.

And that kind of kept going through 2022 until like May. And May was when it was like, dude, we just saw red. And it just— I'm just like, okay, this is going to clean up. And it just got worse and worse.

Yeah.

And then from May on, it was like, dude, I was averaging like 3 loans a month. So from 16 loans a month to 3 loans a month. And so you got to think like 16 loans a month is a lot more than the average loan officer is doing. Like a lot more. Yeah, they're usually doing maybe 4 deals a month. So if you put that in perspective for a loan officer that was doing 4, now they're doing 1. Like a lot of loan officers were just goose-egging it. There was just no business. I mean, it went from like 3% to 7% in like 60 days.

So how do you, how do you pivot out of that?

Like, so it's, dude, it's tough. And how I got and I'm getting through it is I, it was, I had to just get really light and get really lean. Yeah. You know, like I had to just make sure that like I've got my reserves built up and I can focus on things that I know are going to, going to push forward and grow. But I knew like when that happened, I knew business was going to be slow. Like it's really hard to pivot in that and make a bunch of money in that, or at least it was for me. There are some people that had their best months in that, that worst part. I didn't quite crack that code. But I knew I was like, okay, if I— if me and my team were doing 16 loans a month and now we're averaging 3 or 4, then what I really have here, instead of looking at the bond charts and watching them just look like crap every day, I'm like, I've got time. The past 2 years, that was the one resource I could not get a hold of. It was too busy. Rates are at 3%. Your phone doesn't stop ringing, right? And so If you took me back to 2021 and say, hey, I'll give you, you know, a week of just free time where no one's bugging you, business stays the same. I'll give that to you for, you know, say $10,000. I'd be like, dude, show me where to write the check.

Yeah.

You know, I would have bought that time.

Gotcha.

And you couldn't scale fast enough at that time either. So I'm looking at this like, okay, my 60-hour week just turned to 30. I got free time. Like, people think of free time as like, oh, I can do what I want. No, that was free time. That time didn't cost me anything.

Oh, okay.

So that's when I, like, doubled down on some of the social media stuff, bought a bunch of equipment. I sold my frickin dream car just to stay liquid, just so I could just have just heavy, heavy reserves.

What car was it?

A GT3 RS.

No way.

Yeah.

Oh, dude.

Yeah, I made out well on it and I, and I sold it when rates— they— we had lost like 200 basis points in a day and I'm like, okay, we're feeling this in housing. We're going to feel this everywhere else.

Yeah.

And that's when I was like, I had the thing for a year, tracked it like it was— it was a sick car, but I still made money on it.

Yeah.

And it was— I mean, it was a free experience to put 10,000 hard miles on it.

Yeah. And you were still able to get away on top.

Yeah, I made like $10 grand on it.

No kidding.

Yeah, dude.

Well, I mean, that would be a hard decision for me. I know, because I'm really into cars and— but I think, I mean, it just shows where you're at a smart position in your life where you're like, all right, dude, I'd rather— let's get out of this now. Yeah, stay liquid and then that can help me. And so did you reinvest that money into like your equipment and stuff for the social media?

So I put that money right back in the bank and it was just to sit there just to see. So I was like, okay, I'm good for years, right? And so at that point you got nothing to lose because you're taken care of and you know things are going to get better and you're riding out this storm. When, you know, part of that's an ego thing.

Yeah.

And it was, it was actually a really cool experience because that was my dream car. I mean, the thing was like, it was— I saw it. I'm like, I didn't have a dream car till I saw that car.

Yeah.

And what I realized through making those decisions is like, it would feel a lot better to just have that cash sitting in the bank for my family. And then the part of like the why I was like hung up on the decision it— what I dug deep and found out is it was— I was wondering what people were going to think.

Yeah.

I was like, dude, that's not cool. Like, like, you worry about other people's opinion. Yeah. Like, what are they going to say if I get rid of the car? And I was like, I do a lot of, like, a lot of self-help work, a lot of ego work. And I was like, dude, that's a problem. My identity has become about a car.

Yeah.

And now— and it was— so it was a really cool experience because I'm like, I, you know, I pulled from that. And once I was like, that doesn't matter. But like, let's look at why you cared about that. I was able to check myself and then, and then, you know, sold it and didn't feel any different about it. Like, I didn't feel like I didn't miss the car. Yeah. Whatever I'm like in at that moment in life, I'm obsessed with. And once that's gone or moved on, I don't— I don't go back to that. Yeah, that's just how I am.

Well, here's something I've realized, like, like this watch. So I wanted a Rolex for like my entire life and I like was so excited and finally hit some goals and stuff. And I went out and I went and bought this watch. And don't get me wrong, I fucking love this watch. Yeah, but now to me it's, it's any other fucking thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Where it's like, it's, yeah, it's great. I like it, but I don't need to have this. Like a lot of the thrill of it like goes away the moment you've got it.

Yeah. Yeah, and so that's something that at that time you did that because it was going to make you happy. And I mean, it's a good asset. It's a Rolex. It's still a good asset. But at the time, it was like, this is going to bring me so much happiness. And then happiness is just a feeling. So that comes and goes, right? And then with anything with spending, you're going to have that same thing. It's like a drug. You really anticipate, oh, when I get this, I'm going to be so excited. And with cars, I mean, you just get a lot of joy out of cars.

Oh, well, I think— I mean, if you enjoy it, it sounds like— But if you do—

it was like if you get a car because you think that's going to change something about your life to anyone else, then that's a dangerous drug.

That's the problem.

Yeah, because it's not. And the dopamine hit you think you're going to get from it is not quite going to be what you think it is.

Yeah.

And then after that, it's, you know, the high runs off. And if anything else financially comes up, you're going to think about that.

Yeah.

Like, oh man, I don't know if I should have bought that car. Now you have remorse. Now you're having— it's like it is literally like a drug.

Yeah, I see what you're talking about. That's interesting.

Take apart everything like that.

Like, dude, how did you get to the point— like, I mean, you even just like talking about the self-realization of being like, damn, the real— the reason why I don't want to sell this car is I'm worried about how it's going to impact me, and then being able to like course correct from there. I feel like just being able to notice that is something so huge. How did you get to the point where you can do that?

So honestly, dude, I've been working with a, um, like a counselor, like mental health counselor, for the past 4 years. And I started going to him because— and this is actually probably huge for anyone watching that's, you know, coming into success because I went through this— is I was making exponentially more money. Like, my goal when I got into this 5 years ago was to make 6 figures. That was, that was my goal. And then I went into it full speed. And by the 3rd month, I, you know, there was a check, there's like $25,000. I was like, oh my God, that's huge. Super excited about that. And then it grew exponentially. What I noticed is I was just stressing out more and it wasn't like I wasn't happy.

Yeah.

And I was drinking at the time and that's where, that's where I was like, okay, something feels off. Why do I not— why am I not more excited about this?

Like, were you not like fulfilled with the success or like the money you were having? Like, did you feel like I thought this would be a little bit different?

Yeah. Like if, if I thought $100K was what was going to do it for me, Well, the first year I made like $275,000. So that was almost 3 times what I told myself that was going to be enough.

Yeah.

And so I was just like, this doesn't feel like enough. It never feels like enough. When is this going to go away? And then I was always worried.

Yeah.

And so that's when I started seeing this guy, Sean. He's a counselor and he just helped me understand a bunch of stuff.

Like about yourself?

Yeah, about my stuff. And there's stuff that goes way back into trusting myself and, and how I grew up. And I didn't realize it. Like, yeah, it just— he went super deep, fixed a bunch of stuff. And then from there, you know, he's like, he said he wanted to work himself out of a job, but I'm like, no, dude, I'm keeping you hired. Because I was like, I fixed a bunch of stuff. And then it was like I was just supercharging my work and my life.

Yeah.

And someone else's perspective. And he taught me so much about ego, about happiness, peace, all that stuff. And he actually I haven't drank for 2 years and he got me sober.

Was he— did he kind of like help you identify that maybe that was something that was—

Yeah, he did. I owe him a lot of the credit for that because he saw it. He probably knew for a year leading up to that that that's what it was. But I had to find it out for myself.

I see.

And so— and it wasn't like whenever I tell people I'm sober, I'm never drinking again, it's like people think I was like doing heroin in an alley. No, what it was was it was just casual drinking that got away. You know, I've got 3 kids, a stressful job, a busy life. And so I'd get home on a Thursday and have a glass of wine. Well, that glass of wine turned to like bottles of wine Thursday through Sunday. And then Monday was like panic attack anxiety. I'm like, I hate this.

Holy shit, bro. You are— you're speaking like exactly my same thing.

And it's how we're wired. And whenever I talk to someone in like sales or entrepreneurs, like it's the same thing and I get a lot of questions on it. Like, I, for me, I'll get obsessed with everything I'm doing. And that, that's what happened there. And he helped me realize that. And obviously I got, I got sober and I had to completely give it up. Like, I will never drink again. I had to say that to myself. And yeah, from, from that point on, I still kept him hired and I still go to him because he just helps me understand like what's going on in my head.

Yeah.

And it makes things a lot easier.

Okay. So it's interesting you say that. Um, I mean, I had like the exact same thing. It's like, dude, I like— I love to drink, but it wasn't like I was like waking up shaking, like, yeah, drink. It was just like on the weekends I drank and I just realized like when I drank, I was drinking to get fucked up. Like, I wasn't— yeah, I couldn't just enjoy a beer. I wanted to have 10 of them, right?

Yep, I can relate.

And then every single Monday, there's earth-shattering hangover where I was like— I never got like— here's something, like when I was drinking, like I could drink forever. Like, I was never get sick or anything like that. And then when I got like— my hangovers weren't— I didn't have a headache or anything like that. It's just I had like crippling anxiety.

Yeah.

About nothing and like super, um, self-conscious. And like, meanwhile I'm trying to build like a wholesale business and it's like I'm trying— I'm getting some success there, but then it's like I celebrate, have a big weekend, fall off, and then it's like I've got to rebuild myself back up. And it was, it was Templeton Walker who kind of helped me notice that.

Nice.

And just by like having a conversation with him and sort of, you know, him opening up the idea like, you know, do you think that that might be something that's holding you back?

Yeah, dude. Like, that's like, that's so spot on. And that's how what I learned is that's how addiction works, is it finds— it looks for pain.

Yeah.

Addiction looks for pain and you don't realize where the pain is. So it's like if you had a stressful day, it doesn't feel good to be stressed, having that anxiety. It'll clear that. So you have a glass of wine and then you feel like, okay, I had a huge, you know, a huge month. I need to go celebrate this. And then you drink like it's there to like capture any feeling you have and be super convenient. And that's where it got away from me. And I was like, the craziest thing was once I was like, I'm never drinking again. Like this weight dropped off because I was worried that I was going to like miss out on stuff like, you know, for my job, a lot of it's like schmoozing realtors. And realtors like to drink. There's no getting around that. And so I'm like, oh, am I going to miss business? And I'm like, no, screw that. I can never look at, am I going to miss business because of this? Because that's how I built my business, is working around those things. So the FOMO dropped right away. I thought I would have that. And then there's been no temptation. And it's just, I feel like it dropped that big dark cloud that was there. You may have felt the same thing when it was like, that anxiety cloud and like worry. Like, I didn't know what was going to happen in the future. And the timing was perfect because last year sucked and I was able to stay really focused.

Yeah, well, that's something that I'm kind of like realizing myself because I told myself that like, I'm not like quitting for life, but I was basically like, I need to get some shit dialed in.

Yeah.

And I told myself that once I buy my dream car, I want to buy a Lamborghini Huracán. And I said, once I buy that, like, you know, I can— I think I will have a better relationship with alcohol at this point. But I've kind of noticed, bro, I've been having like dreams and shit where like, it's like I'm having this like internal debate of like whether I should drink or not. And I like wake up and I don't really feel right with it, you know, because I just realize how much better of a person I'm able to be without booze. Like, just on the health side of it and like the—

yeah, maybe, maybe you'll get to that point and be like, I don't know if I want to chance this.

Yeah, I, I— that's the thing is I don't know that like I really do. Here's the thing is I miss like I miss like having like a glass of wine with dinner.

Yeah.

On a date with my girlfriend or like drinking, like, you know, having like a nice glass of whiskey, something like that. But when I look back at it, it's like, number one, are those calories worth it?

Yeah.

But number two, like, is this just like a slippery slope that is going to—

and that's the thing, dude. I, when I, before I had kids, I wouldn't drink like every weekend, but when we did, I'd go out and party and it was pretty harmless. I had a hangover. I accounted for the hangover. It was when I had kids and it was the casual drinking was where it got away. Yeah, I'd never done that before. And then I played with the idea of, well, kids are screaming, work was stressful, let's just take the edge off. That's where it got away from me. That's where I really found my— that that was an addiction for me.

Okay. So something you said earlier, this guy, his name's Sean. Yeah. So you want to stay with him because it feels like it's allowing you to supercharge, like, your life right now. Like, even though his goal, he's like, hey, yeah, we eventually— I want you to fire me.

Yeah.

And but you're saying, okay, I want to stay on with this.

Yeah. Because the thing is, like, we, we went into everything so macro. It was fix these things that are giving you stress, anxiety, so you'll feel better, right?

Yeah.

Super macro stuff. And then what I'll do is I'll just take notes before I meet with him. And it's micro stuff. It's like I have to have a conversation with an employee. And this is how I feel about it. I'm holding back or I'm doing this, and he'll pick that apart in my brain and help me understand it. Yeah. And then it's like, I want to do this, but I'm afraid of this. Like, we go through a lot of stuff with risk and he helps me, like, remind me to trust myself. It gives me more resources with stuff like that. Every time I leave there, I'm like, dude, this is like, like, mind-blowing. No coach could do that. No coach, because they're not there. The coach is there to regurgitate what they know and teach you like you know, systems and whatnot to use. But like, to go to that level where he's— I mean, he's a psychologist.

Yeah.

And to pick apart my brain, my individual brain, is like so priceless.

Interesting, dude. Well, I feel like on one hand, I think just having somebody to like talk to and get stuff out.

Yeah.

Helps so much with just your like own understanding. Like, not even like you'd be talking to a wall, but just talking about it helps. But then also having somebody that has like that acumen.

Yeah.

Of the psychology side that's able to help you understand why. Is that what it mostly is? Is— yeah, it's because it's giving you actionable advice or is it just kind of like, here's why I think that it's actionable, but he knows what I'm trying to do with whatever it is.

And then when I'm saying like, okay, this is why I'm feeling like this, like I'm hesitating to do this and you got to be like brutally honest for it to work. But when I do that, he'll come back and help me understand it. But then also say, I think you're missing this.

Yeah.

And it's like this blaring, like, that's what the problem is.

Interesting.

Or it's like, yeah, you're right. You are being afraid of this. Like, there was— I don't remember what else we talked about last time. There's some— something that's just not comfortable to do. Yeah, right. And every time you do something that is— that he's like, basically what he said this last time, and this is— this is— I took a lot from this, was you're never not going to have stressful moments. You're always going to have that feeling. It was a loan that got— they got screwed up. We ended up closing it, but it was just a nightmare of a loan. It was just consuming me, like gut-wrenching, like Dude, this isn't good, right? Like, it was— things just weren't going good. It was bothering me because, like, I wanted to help this chick. And he said the thing that helped was he said, do you— would you rather not feel like that? Like, do you think you would have your success if you didn't feel like that? I'm like, I don't— I don't know. And he goes, it's because you care. You're going to feel that. That's okay to feel that anxiety. It's okay to feel that worry while that's going on. Where the problem is afterwards. If you carry that with you and say, I didn't close this loan because I'm not a good enough loan officer, you're giving yourself pain and suffering. That's the problem. That initial pain, that's okay. That means you care. That's the human part of it. And you either figure it out or you don't figure it out. But if you don't figure it out, you move on from it. If you don't move on from it, you don't learn from it. That's when you carry pain and suffering.

I see.

So this is like the stuff he talks about with me and I'm just like, Like, where do you learn that stuff? You don't learn that stuff, you know?

Yeah. So the interesting thing is, because when you were talking about that, it immediately reminded me of Matt Hoodie, where it's like, um, so, uh, guys who are watching, um, Matt also has worked with Matt Hoodie and is fucking— I mean, you guys can see if you're watching the video version of it. So like, when I first, you know, I found him and it's like, I was like, dude, I'm gonna be paying this guy forever. Like, I want to have him to be able to look over my shoulder and help me with anything when it comes to, like, you know, my fitness needs.

Yeah.

Do you think that that's a similar thing? But it's like with everything else in your life that you have also with Sean.

Yeah, I think so. I definitely think so. It's that there's accountability piece and then there's the— because a lot of stuff too with mental health is that you don't notice it. Yeah, right. Until you unpack it. And so same thing with diet. Anything like that is like, could you do it on your own? Yeah, you probably could. But then you're going to— why bother? Why make that part of your job when you've got all this other stuff going?

Yeah.

And it's same thing with mental health. Like, I don't want to— I don't want to look at, you know, like what Matt does. I don't want to look at progress of myself every week and say, I think I need to do this, my calories. I'm like, send him the pictures, do my check-in, and then follow what he says. And I'll say, hey, I want to cut or I want to do whatever. That I pay him for that so I don't have to do that part of my life. And it's all it is is just following from there. Same thing with, with Sean. It's like, I know there's things that are going to come up, keep him on the schedule, and then you just— it's constantly maintaining that.

Dude, I feel like that's super powerful because I've just realized how much, like, in any aspect of my life that I wish to improve upon, I value coaches and mentors.

Yeah.

Whether it's I want to improve my business, I'm going to go find somebody that I can pay to help me do that. I want to get shredded. I found somebody to pay who can help me do that. But if I just want to overall improve my well-being.

Yeah.

Now here's the thing is I've always felt like, like I've always been like a very happy person. Like I feel very fulfilled with life and I like a lot of stuff, but I always, I want to continue to get better and understand myself deeper and things of that nature. And I feel like that is, it's kind of like an obvious thing that can help take you to the next level.

Yeah. And you think, you know, like hiring a counselor or therapist like initially it's like, am I sick? Is there something wrong? That's why you'd go to that. And it's not the case at all. Yeah, it's just if it can help you, if it can truly help you and you're not doing it because it seems weak, that's just being stubborn because it's not weak. The person that would call that weak could probably help a lot from that. And so technically they're weaker for not doing it.

I see what you're saying.

If you're looking at it relatively, you know.

Yeah, dude, that's interesting. Like, is it kind of to the point where— have you ever seen the show Billions?

Yes. Yep.

So do you know there's Wendy Rhodes? Yeah, the performance counselor at the hedge fund or whatever.

Yes. That's like literally what Sean is.

Really?

Yeah. So I saw that. I was like, dude, that's, that's Sean.

Okay. All right, dude, I'm— you got me real interested in all that.

Yeah, it's, it's cool, man. And it's like, think about how, like, how important it is to have your head clear. And it might be stuff you don't even realize.

Yeah. You know, Well, that's something you said that where it's like with the diet piece is the things you don't know, you don't know. And you also just like live your whole life and you can do it, but it just takes one professional like, hey, no, look like, you know, tweak that.

Yeah, exactly.

And how I can already see like diet-wise how much that's able to change your life doing the same thing, but upping your brain and understanding yourself like that's got to be even more powerful.

It is. And it's helped my business a ton. And there's some things that like, like I'm thinking of like pivotal moments that he's helped me with. And I think the biggest— there was really two big things were learning to trust myself because that's always been a struggle of mine in business. It's like I'm always worried about the next month, but then next month is always good and it's always in my head about that. And then this, this other concept, because of— because there's so much coaching is it's— and it's hard for me to understand it, but he basically said is you need to understand more and more that business comes easy to you and it doesn't come easy to everyone. So when you see stuff like, if you're not doing this, you're failing, I'm like, oh, that's like everything they talk about. And I'll, I'll listen to like, oh, you need to make this many calls, do this much and this. I'm not doing those things, but my numbers are higher. And so it's a hard concept for me to understand that. And I think there's some other, I guess, magic to it, you know, and it's something else that I'm doing that I'm not realizing I'm doing that's bringing that success. But that's what he says. Business comes easy to you and it's going to be hard for you to understand that.

Okay, interesting. So how did you build up your business?

So that whole 5 years was just learning loans initially. So I just basically spent 5 years and you'd consider that college, you know, like I was not getting paid much. I was maybe going to make $100K by the end of working on that team. When I went off on my own, it was— I at the time I had twins that were just turning 2 and my wife was pregnant. And I went from nice salary, nice bonus to 100% commission. And so I was like, it's like the whole burn the boats thing. It's like, I'm— there's no like, there's no getting around this. I'm doing this. And so I, I hit the ground running and knew everything I needed to know about loans. And it was just a matter of meeting agents and getting them to trust me with their business. And so what I did is every single weekend I wouldn't allow myself to come back on Sunday until I'd met face to face 5 agents, go into open houses, whatever it was. I had to meet and contact 5 agents and then follow up with them every single week or I wouldn't come home. And so what I do is I'd go hit these open houses. If I clicked with an agent, cool. I shoot them a text when I get in the car, call on that Monday, and then start building rapport. And then the phone started to ring from that. Like, hey, yeah, My lender didn't answer, whatever it was, whatever reason it was for them to give me a shot, they started giving me shots and then it all compounds from there. You get a lead in from an agent, they're a buyer's agent, you get to work with them and you get to work with their client. And then when they go under contract, you get to work with the listing agent. They may do business. And so you go after the listing agent and so you just attack on all of that.

Okay.

And just do a really good job and stick to consistent processes and then it compounds and grows from there.

Okay, so is the vast majority— I mean, because when I think about this, I was telling you, like, I might be looking to buy a house.

Yeah.

Like once my lease is up in, what, 5 months or so. And I was saying, like, I don't have like a loan officer and— but my girlfriend just got a real estate license and she's like, oh no, we have this guy that we work with. And it was just automatic. She's like, oh yeah, that's who we use.

Yeah.

And I wonder how much of it is like that. It's got to be all of it. It's pretty much everybody just kind of whatever their realtor says, it's like, oh yeah, okay, cool. Here's a guy.

Yeah. And that's because— and that's the, I think, the smart and responsible way to run your business as a realtor, because your job from day one is to earn their trust. Like, the more you can earn their trust, you know, it's not that it's a simple job, but that's, that's everything that it is. And then if they can get those resources for you, those third-party resources like lender, title, insurance, whatever it is, they have more control of the transaction. That trust continues.

Yeah.

If you say, hey, we'll go look at some homes, just go get pre-approved and we'll, you know, I don't care what bank you use. Well, that's going to be a different experience. They don't have control. And it's like, you trusted me. I trust this guy. You can trust this guy too. And I'm that guy. And so then my job when I get a referral is to just attack on trust. And that's where, that's where it gets— I guess that's where initially it got confusing for me because you hear of all these crazy, like this person goes into all these analytics of each number for each rate option, this and that. And like my phone call, my script is like, I'm not kidding you, it's— I'll call the lead or the lead will call me, say, hey, I got your information from blah, blah, blah. Said you were looking to buy a home, get pre-approved, had some questions. So tell me what's going on. And I just shut up. Mm-hmm. Because they're going to tell you your pain point and you're going to listen. And people want to be heard. And they made the decision to buy a house. That decision is tough. That's a very stressful decision. Unless they're really into numbers, they probably don't want to make more decisions. That's what I'm here to do, right?

Yeah.

So I'm like, hey, I can go into 5 different options. Here's 3 to pick from. I would do this one. So I'm picking that for them, helping them pick that because they don't want to pick from 5 options.

Yeah.

They're like, well, everyone, every consumer for the most part is just going to do the best job they can. They're going to make the best decisions they can. People are rational, but they don't want to make those decisions. Yes, they may have 5 options. This one might be better than this one because it's not blatantly obvious this one's better than this one. But if I help them say, hey, this is probably the best decision, you know, do whatever you want, but I would do this one, they're going to feel like they made the right choice because they trusted me.

Right. And that's your zone of genius, right?

Yeah.

It's where you can come in and be the advisor. But this is the exact same thing I tell my salespeople is, look, here's the thing. People do not— people are going to resist having to make a decision. Yeah, we're buying these houses over the phone. Like, there are going to be people you— if you've done your job right, you're going to understand their pain point exactly. You're going to get why they're selling this house. And it's up to you to make sure that they make a decision, whether it's a yes or no.

Yeah.

Like, that's where it comes down to. And sometimes it takes a little bit of like having to really help people understand, like, why they need to make a certain decision. Like, it's interesting. It's crazy how many people we talk to who are going to lose their house. Oh yeah, it's in pre-foreclosure or something. They're going to lose their house, but they still resist making the decision. And it's like they think that something crazy is going to happen. I'm like, look, dude, no person is going to come down, swoop through the heavens and give you a full retail asking number, right? If you don't want to lose this house, dude, this is what you got to do. Like, yeah.

And you're like, not necessarily making the decision for them, but it's— you're earning their trust. And that's exactly what it is. And I think the tough thing about that is understanding that that's enough. Yeah, that is enough. And people are looking for trust. We're very emotional creatures. Like, that's just how it is. And so when it comes to home loans, super technical stuff. And I know it like the back of my hand. But to go explain that to someone that is just like super nervous about this big commitment, they're not— there's nothing coming out of that. They're just going to be more confused.

Yeah.

They're like, I'm comfortable with the payment. I have this much money. This makes sense. I'm like, trust me, you're making a good decision.

There we go.

And that's it.

I love that.

You know, they don't want to know the numbers because it's going to freak them out.

For me, I'm going to want to know, though.

Totally. Yeah, I got to know.

I need to know what my interest rate is, how long this is going for. I mean, you look at the amortization table. Yeah. All right.

Yeah. And it's funny, dude, because like when I do loans for agents or investors, it's like it's either that like super technical or did some— especially some investors I work with, they're like, they don't even look at anything. They trust me so much. Like, yeah, whatever, that payment works. Just lock it in, do whatever. I trust you.

Well, it's a testament to one, the trust you build with them and that you just know your craft.

Yeah. Yeah. And that's where I'm really trying to tie all of social media in because and you're doing a great job of it, it's— you start building that trust before you meet somebody. Like, how cool is that on a huge scale?

Oh, it's— I tell people all the time, it's— if you're looking to do something like in your life, any kind of like enterprising endeavors of yours, you need to be talking about yourself on social media because of exactly what you just said. People will— your reputation will precede you a lot more. Yeah, people understand what you're about and things of that nature, and they'll automatically Like there are people who just send me deals and they just automatically trust me just because they've seen the thing, which I'm glad they do. But it's like, you don't know, like I'm just a guy on the internet, like talking.

Right, right, right. But well, and to your point though, your stuff is professionally shot. It looks good. Like your personal brand looks great. And I think that's, I think that's huge. I appreciate that. You get on your page and you're like, okay, this is what this dude does. Does this, this dude does, and he does it well. And you can see all of that on there.

Yeah.

You know, and you can see your personality on there and you're open about it. And I think a lot of the stuff with social media, because we— I mean, in our line, it's like it gets pushed heavy. They're like, you guys need to do more social, need more social. Like, I'm, I'm going to do it and I am doing it. But to say that just do it to do it, I don't think that's the right approach. I think if you're going to do it, you got to go to level you're doing it. You got to go to level I'm doing it where it looks professional. You got to think, why would someone share this? You know, is this— does this look good enough? And is the message good enough to share this?

That's a really good point.

You know, and that's, that's the crazy thing I've been noticing with more and more of it is I'll look on the little share button. It's like average 15 to 20 shares on like every post. And sometimes it's the most random crap. Like this one time I got like 30 shares and half of them were from this real estate office in Utah.

Yeah.

And they kept sharing this with their clients. So if they're sharing this with their clients, That means it looks good enough and the message is strong enough to where they're using me as the news.

All right.

Like, how crazy is that?

Yeah.

And so that's my goal. And if I don't think it's going to get shared, then it's back to the drawing board. Work harder. And the work harder is think harder.

Yeah.

That means I might be stuck in writer's block or whatever it is. If the content's not good enough to put out, work harder on getting more creative on it and thinking, how can I make this better? Or maybe this is just not good content and you just— you got to think of better content.

Well, I mean, I tell people it's like, look, You need to think of what's the reason why I'm posting this video? Because if you're just posting it for you, then all that has to matter is that you like it. But for most people, they're like, oh no, I want to give some kind of value. It's okay, then why the fuck do you give a shit about how you look in it?

Right?

You mean focus on the words you're saying? That's what's important. Like, you know, put something out there that's going to help some people. And if you're worried about you, then you're just being fucking selfish and you're lying to yourself.

Like, right? You just care about what you look like and sound like. But that's for you, not for your audience. Like, what are people getting out of this? And that's why I like do some of your stuff is great where like you're on the calls. Yeah, that stuff's cool to see.

Well, that's definitely what I think that like I can provide the most value to people is through doing those calls because I know that when I was learning my— like the way I learned best was by watching other people who knew what they were doing. Like there's this guy, Steve Morales, and he did these like Friday lives where for like 2 or 3 hours, he would call sellers and I would watch every single one of them.

Yeah.

And just seeing him do it helped me so much in like building my confidence and also just picking up little things here and there, not even about like things he was saying, but like how he was saying things. And that allowed me to have more confidence. And dude, here's the thing. If you want to learn and you want to get good at cold calling fast, I highly recommend you start livestreaming yourself doing it. I could totally see that because you force yourself to play at like a higher level. Yep.

No, dude, that's totally true. Because even when I, I had brought a loan officer on, I don't know, it was a few months ago. And when he would sit in on the calls, I noticed that I was like 10 times more sharp.

You're dialed in.

Yeah.

Make sure you're doing everything.

Yeah.

The way it needs to be.

Not overthinking it, but just like, oh cool, I get to use this. And I was like asking for more business and I was like, I need to have someone sitting with you all the time.

You're doing the little extra things. Yeah. It's like the—

I can't preach them if I'm not doing them. Yes, I won't. 100%, you know, and that's, and that's where I think the next step is for me is in having a branch right now. It's literally just me, a processor and an assistant.

But that's the entire—

that's my entire thing.

Oh, I didn't realize, dude. I thought when you were saying, I thought there was going to be some other people or—

No, it's all this really tight because I just started a branch in July. It's basically just a profit and loss model, but it makes more sense to bring people on.

What do you mean by that?

It's just so— a normal loan officer is going to get compensated on the loans they close at whatever basis points it is. Right. So it's like all they have to do is worry about getting business in and closing it. They don't have to look at any of the expenses like some marketing expenses, but like rent, office supplies, paying employees like processors, stuff like that. So I switched over to that model in July and opened up this whole new world of managing every expense of the business rather than just getting this much of the commission. You open the commission up a lot higher.

Okay.

But then you also are responsible for these expenses. And when you bring people on, that helps your expenses and helps your branch. So that's what I'm shifting towards. But I know how I am, and I'm going to be really picky about who I bring on.

Yeah.

Because— and I don't say that as I'm like, that's what I deserve— because I've learned from myself, if I'm not about what this person is doing or their, I guess, their energy, you'd say, I'm not going to be able to give them my full attention.

I'm with you.

I got to be like really excited for this person to do what I do. If I don't see enough of myself in that person, I can't do it. Yeah, I just won't give them the attention. Then I'll feel bad. Yeah, lose-lose then, you know.

Oh dude, it's so important. I think something that Andy Elliott taught me was he was like, dude, the people you have around you, they need to be like you. Like, if they're not like you, dude, then they're going to like— you're not really building anything. Like, you know what we have here? Like every single person that's here in my office, like, dude, we're all just so on the same fucking mission. We all have like the same ideals. We all know exactly where we're going and everybody loves to be here because of that. We're surrounded by people that are like us.

Yeah, that's huge because you're, you're operating like I am. We're in that 1% and that you need to be so frickin dialed in that. When it falls out of that, I mean, or if someone's operating in 5% and you're operating in 1%, you can't help that person at 5%. It's like, did you wake up at 4:30? Did you like— are you doing those things? And it's like, oh yeah, I meant to do this. I can't work with someone that says I meant to do this.

Holy shit, dude, I feel that. It's like I get like frustrated a little bit. It's like, dude, like, are we on the same page here? Like, are we doing the same thing? But that's something that I struggle with a little bit, like especially like since I've stopped drinking and since I became so dialed in, it's— I've just realized, like, myself, like, getting a little bit judgmental of when people are not.

Yeah.

And what I think that is, what I've realized, I think— I don't know, maybe I could— Sean can help me with something like this. I think it's just me, like, I'm just getting pissed off at the version of myself that I know would, you know, succumb into whatever the thing that they're doing that I don't like.

Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. That's tough. Because I totally get that.

Yeah.

You know, and I think you have to have enough things lined up for it to work because I could, you know, I could teach someone 3 of the 5 things. If they're not getting the other 2, I don't know. Like, I can't guarantee they're going to do what I did, you know? And I can tell if my model is going to work for someone.

Yeah.

Because it is a bit different. But it's— I think the reason for my success is like, it's consistent. I'm always consistent. Yeah. And if I don't want to, like, I don't, I don't think I would want to do cold calls like you do. I just, I don't, I don't know that that's me. And, you know, maybe direct-to-consumer I would, but I didn't want to call 40 agents every Monday. Yeah, I didn't want to do that. So I'm like, okay, if that's— everyone says that's the way to get business. I'm like, let's just look at what's the goal. The goal is to get this many transactions and close this much business. This is a way to get there. There's got to be another way. And I'm always thinking like, there's got to be another way. And if I put enough energy into something I want to do, I'll make that the way.

Yeah.

And that's kind of how I run my business.

And so what was that that you shifted to instead of doing the cold calls? It's like— sounds like it's meeting them in person.

Yeah. So it was meeting in person because you just get a lot better connection. And then honestly, in, in my business, it's just not shutting up about what I do.

Yeah.

Like if, if I meet someone, they're going to find out what I do.

Yeah.

You know, and then they're going to have a friend that's a real estate agent or they're going to buy at some point, whatever it is. And then that all compounds. And so I realized I don't really have to prospect that much as long as I just don't shut up about what I do.

Yeah.

And then social media is just leveraging that times 10. And now I've put so much stuff out there that if it's a friend from, say, high school or a buddy of mine that is sick of seeing it, they've already unfollowed me. That's fine. I'm not worried about that. I'd rather make money than worry about being your friend on social media, you know? Yeah. And so now as the audience grows, these are people that are following me and interacting with me because of my business.

Yeah.

So that's all new. That's— that's— there's such a better, better crowd. I think that's part of the thing too. When you get really into social media, it's like, are you giving up that part of your personality? Are your friends going to get annoyed at this? The answer is yes. Oh yeah, they are. But what do you care more about? And I care less and less about like, oh, I don't want to, you know, cloud my friends' feed with this stuff. I'm like, I don't give a shit. No, it's going to make me a bunch of money.

I was explaining this to my girlfriend. I was like, did you know that it, it is absolutely free to post on Instagram. I can do it as many times as I want a day, and every single one of those is just free advertisement for me. Like, yeah, me just advertising myself. And guess what? I'm doing the same fucking thing on TikTok and on YouTube. Like, you can post as many times as you want, and dude, if you don't like it, you don't see it, don't give a fuck. You're not buying from me, right?

So, right, this is more important to you than that. Yeah, yeah. And not only that, but the more you post, the better the the algorithms take care of you. Uh-huh. And it's a consistency. So I think that— I think that's huge. And it's not direct business from that. It's like you just see the impact of it just on so many different levels. Like literally 2 days ago, one of my agents put an offer in on a property in Flagstaff for a client of ours and sends over the pre-qual. Oh, you work with Matt Weber? She's like, yeah, how do you know him? She's like, oh, I see him all over social media. Random agent, Flagstaff. There you go. And so this agent is already giving me credibility. I've never met this dude. I have no idea who this dude is. And that's what those efforts do. So how do you go back and say, what's the conversion rate on that? You can't, right? You just know. You have to trust your gut. Like, this is going to work and I'm all in on it.

Well, and you just have to be open. Like, for me, like when I started it, like, it's like I was expecting to get deals or anything from it and I don't like— it's not like from my social media I'm getting like JV deals or anything like that. But I do get so many other kinds of rewards, like of just what it's opened up my network to and things of that nature. Like, cuz when people see you're serious about something, yep, you know, they, you know, and you're putting in the time, the work, the effort to show other people, it gives you that next level of credibility.

And yep, yep, it's the new business card. I mean, it, it really is. And your resume all in one, right?

I had somebody ask me for my business card. I was like, bro, you can look me up on Instagram. Like, I got my shit on there. Like, that's going to be a way better place.

Here's my cell phone and yeah, find me on here because yeah, business cards get thrown away. I don't even have one in my wallet.

Right.

I've got stacks of them just to have. But yeah, it doesn't— it's a different world and I think it's cool and it's to me, I'm like, I'm not afraid of the change, but if I resist change, like if anything's shifting a certain direction, that doesn't feel good. So it's like, go with it. Yeah, you know, go with it. If it's going to be social media or like, dude, we're business professionals and this is how I show up to work. Yeah. You know, it's funny that like, I think it was Bradley that just put a video out about it.

The suits.

Yeah, I saw it. I was like, dude, that's my jam. Yeah.

He was like, he was like, yeah, now I see if you're wearing a suit, it's like, who are you working for that's making you wear that?

Yeah, it's a statement, you know? And there's, there's definitely certain generations that don't necessarily get it. But for me, that's kind of a challenge. I like that.

Yeah.

So like, if I have— I rarely meet with clients in person, but if I have an older— let's just say an older couple comes in because they want to meet in person, I will still dress like this and they'll like— I'll watch, I'll feel them looking at my tattoos. Yeah, I'll feel that. And then like this wall up and I'm like, I'm excited about breaking that wall down.

Yeah.

Because they're going to— because if they are judging me as in this guy's young, who is this person? Like if they're super judgy, then that's just all the more for me to blow their minds with like, hey, I'm gonna teach you some shit. Like, I know my shit. Like, it's exciting to me to do that, to break that.

I think that more people need to learn from that, is that instead of like being like, oh, I'm setting myself up for failure or anything like that, it's like, no, I'm giving myself like this extra opportunity to wow them even more. Because not only like, they expect the slick, you know, shark-looking guy in the suit to wow them, but when I can do it, how I am, just me.

Yeah.

To me, that, that many, you know, that much more powerful and authentic. Oh yeah.

Because the suit, there's, there's always going to be something with the suit. Like, where are they making their money? Mm-hmm. If I don't care what I look like, well, I obviously care what I look at. But, you know, if I'm like, I'm going to be my authentic self.

Yeah.

You actually get more trust from that.

Yeah.

Because it's like, no, I'm not trying to be someone I'm not. I'm just here to do your loan.

And just that, that, that level of, like, confidence in yourself just to be who you are. I feel like that, that shows, like, people can feel that as well. I'm the same way, dude. Like, I don't, you know, I mean, I wear tank tops to the office and shit like that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, it's just, it's, it's who I am. I don't need to— it's always funny when people come in and they ask me like, hey, what do I need to wear? It's like, I don't give a shit.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

I'm clothed.

That's it. Yeah, yeah.

Do whatever. But I think that something that is important is when you, when you look good, when you feel good, you are going to perform better. So I think it is important to do whatever it is that makes you, you know, feel the best. Like, so our director of operations, Mitch, he likes dressing up, he likes wearing suits, and that's what he does. And but that's him. Like, that is just— that's how he is. It's not like he's doing it to act a certain way. It's just like that's what makes him feel good.

So totally, totally agree. And I mean, to that too, is like, I feel like I couldn't use an exact example, but when I was first kind of getting moving in the business, there were a couple— there's not a lot of loan— now there's more, but not a lot of loan officers like, you know, dressed like this.

Yeah.

But then you'd see, you know, I'd watch some, I don't know, podcast or coaching seminar and it was some dude that was like totally casual and it was just like all tatted up, but like so confident and so smart when he was talking. I was like, dude, that's fricking gangster. Yeah, he stuck out for that. If a suit says it, you expect that. He said it and he says it with such conviction. I was like, That's badass. Like, that's cool.

Well, that's what I mean. That's all the people I look up to. I'm realizing they're all like jack motherfuckers. They're like covered in tats, like wearing black t-shirts.

Yeah.

And that's what it is.

Yeah. It's like this. I don't give a shit. I know my value. Yeah, I love that.

Yeah, me too. It's sick.

Yeah.

Oh, one thing I want to ask you, because it seems like you'd be a good person to give me advice on this, is I've realized that like since I've stopped drinking, I have a little bit more like social anxiety. Like, I'm, I'm so much more of a hermit now. And also with like the dieting and everything where I'm just like so dialed in, it's like I don't fucking go out, I don't see people, I don't do a lot of that. Like, I see people at work, but it's like I go to the office, the gym, or I'm home.

Yeah.

Um, did you have that same problem or—

Um, yeah, I would say, um, kind of the, the part of it that I still, I'm still pretty social and I mostly would just do it for work. But the other side of it too is I've got 3 kids.

Oh yeah.

So it's really easy for me to just be like, do I want to go hang out with friends or go hang out with family? So like, it's that my time is finite. Yeah, it's much more finite than it was. But my job does require me to be social. The more social I am, the more business I get. So the social anxiety part of it for me like I just come right out of the gate and say, I don't drink and I don't mind being around it. I like being around it.

Yeah.

And all my friends know that. Like, I'm going to the Open tomorrow and we're— I'm going to go hang out with people that are just being drunk idiots all day. I like it. Yeah. Entertaining to me. But I get that out of the way right away. And I'm not super social, so I don't have to deal with that as much. Yeah, but it's It is. It's definitely a thing, you know.

Well, I've just realized, like, for me is I've like, I kind of, I like, like, you miss it though. Well, one, here's the thing is, no, not really.

I don't.

But it's like I used to be like I was the life of the party kind of guy. Like, you know, I'd come and I loved talking to everybody and doing these things. And now it's just like, no, I don't. And I've found that I get like very annoyed quicker with like people who are drunk.

Yeah.

And like, now that's not to say that I don't want to be around anybody who's drinking, but like I just have a certain tolerance where it's like, all right, dude, I think everything you're saying right now is just— yeah, doesn't matter.

And I think that— I think that's a— the tough part there is that's a stage of life thing, I think. And that's— it's like, that's just not— I don't know if that's a thing anymore. Like, I do the same thing with some friends that aren't— they don't necessarily fit in my circle, if that makes sense. You know, like, I'm really big on being positive to everyone. And there are some people that just— they like to poke and tease and they all— I'm just giving you shit. I'm just giving you shit. And especially when it's like if anyone gives me shit about success, I'm like, shit, I liked you. Yeah, like, I like—

you were a cool dude and now you just—

you're just off your, you know, and it's like, it sucks because like, I like that person, but I just know that person doesn't bring value to my life anymore.

Yeah.

And so maybe it's something similar to that, you know, it's like that. That thing that you used to have just doesn't bring value anymore. And that's why, you know, maybe you don't realize you don't like it. And there's, you know, you're— I mean, the stuff you're doing now is way more fun than I think.

So that's the thing is I've realized it's like, I mean, I get more fulfillment out of the shit I do now and I just enjoy it more. It's like, yeah, I don't want to go to like any kinds of like things unless I know that I'm going to be around people who are like going to be talking about the same kind of things. Like, it's very selfish of me. Yeah, I'm like, dude, if I'm not going to go and we're not going to talk about how we can make a bunch of fucking money and take over the world, like, I don't really want to be having the conversation.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, to that point, I think that those social interactions, you just keep them shorter and shorter. There's this dude I follow, his name's Brian Decker. He's a loan officer and he's like exponential growth and he puts out really good stuff. And there's one thing I took away He was talking about drinking. He said he still goes to these events. So it would be like, let's just say a mortgage event or something like that. And everyone's drinking. But he said he noticed that like the billionaires or like the super successful people would hang out for like one drink and then they're gone.

Mm-hmm.

And that's what he realized. Like, I can still go there, be social, have my drink, but then I'm gone. The people that were staying were just not— they weren't growing. But these super successful people were still doing these things, but they called it quits right there. I see. And they were out because they weren't getting any more value out of that. They did what they needed to do and they got out because their time is more valuable than that.

I see it. Yeah, I think that's a good way to look at it. And I want to say, because your content is super amazing, like for people who are interested or looking to buy a house or anything like that, you put out some super helpful stuff on there. Where can people see you at?

It's @mweber888. I still haven't changed it. It's from, I don't know, whenever Instagram came out, Facebook came out. @mweber888. I'm going off my personal page now. It's got my contact info on there. Yeah. And that's— it's— that's my cell phone. So that's really the easiest way to reach out to me.

And so on Instagram, @mweber8888.

Yep.

888. Yeah.

If you just search— yeah. Okay. If you just search Matt Weber, it should pop up. Okay.

Are you doing anything on YouTube?

No, but I need to.

You got to start doing things on YouTube.

More long form.

Yeah, that's what our big push has been. And it's— I like it so much better.

Because you can actually get—

yeah, it's like, I mean, because so here's the thing is I struggle with like the number one is I want to provide value, but also I understand what the platform's looking for and who's watching. And it's like I feel like I've got to spend too much time like gaming the system with like these hooks and like having to shorten things down and sort of dramaticize things so that it sticks better.

Yes, because it's a quick attention span.

But the thing is where I can actually help people is when they go to my YouTube channel, I can fully talk about something and, you know, really I feel like it's more helpful, you know, it's like, and also I just think that people who are really wanting to learn something, they're going to go sit down on YouTube. You don't go to TikTok to learn how to do something unless it's to make some shitty recipe.

Yep.

You know?

Yeah, that's, that's my, that's my next step. Yeah. It's getting that dialed in. No excuses.

Yeah. So walk me through if I'm wanting to buy a house in 5 months, what do I got to get figured out? Because I'm a business owner. My, my girlfriend, she has a W-2 income.

Nice.

But like, I don't even know. Like, I mean, I bought cars and they're pretty much just showing different statements.

Yeah. So what were— you got to just break it down to the basics of what underwriting is looking for and what— and really what a sellable loan looks like. Because the reason interest rates are not even higher is because it can be packaged up as an investment and it fits a certain bucket. So if you're self-employed, the biggest thing is going to be tax returns. We're going to be looking at history of income, likelihood of it to continue, mostly history of income. Your timing is probably spot on because you probably haven't filed your taxes yet.

No.

So that's nice. And I might run into some compliance crap on this, but you, you can honestly pick your income, but you can decide right now what you want it to look like. So we would go off of 2 years' tax returns and we're going to go off the net and then add things back. So if you've got crazy write-offs, then that's where you'd back those off that year. You pay the man, you deal with it. Yeah, but there's also things like depreciation that can be added right back. So it's just with self-employed, it's sometimes it's harder, but a lot of times it's easier and it's just 2 years tax returns, sometimes 1. That will depend on how much you're putting down, credit score and a couple other things. But I would say expect 2 to 24-month average. We're going to use a 45% debt-to-income ratio of the net income.

45%.

That'd be conservative. It could probably go up to 50%.

Okay. Because something I really want is— I'm telling you, I want to buy a Lamborghini.

Yeah.

It's also going to be like— it's looking like it'll probably be the same time I'm also looking to buy a house.

So if you could lease it through your business without personally guaranteeing it. Yeah, that would be the way.

That's the way to go.

Yeah. If they run your credit, different story.

Okay, so I got to figure out how to do that because I don't— I, I mean, I know people talk about it, whatnot, but yeah, I mean, all my cars that I've had are just owned under my personal name. Mm-hmm. Right.

So yeah. And with the lease, you can write off 100% of your lease on your taxes, even if it's—

I thought that was only if it was a certain weight.

Oh, yeah, you're right. You're right.

Which I'm looking for. I want a sports car. I'm not going to buy like a Urus or something like that.

No, no, no, no. Yeah, so I don't know about that side of it. Now, what I did for my GT3 RS, instead of just paying just cash for it, is I had a brokerage account with a big chunk of money in it. At the time, I think there was, I don't know, $450,000 in that. And I did an LMA loan on it, which is—

An LMA?

Yeah, I don't know what LMA actually stands for. It's a liquidity loan. So if I've got X amount in it, They let me borrow up to 60% of that and keep it invested. So it's sitting building. No shit. Yeah, dude, it's sitting there growing in the market. And the rate at that time was like 1.8% interest only. So I pulled out $140K and then put that towards it, paid the rest down. So my money at that time was growing at like 12% and the rate was 1.8%. So I was actually making money owning that car.

What the—

Yeah.

Holy shit. Okay, so that's some gangster shit right there.

Yeah. So you got to get it into a brokerage account where it's invested. And then because the bank or the brokerage account, let's just say that that's, that's Morgan Stanley. In that case, Morgan Stanley wants to keep making money. They want to keep proving that they can perform. There's more money out there in their portfolio. So like, hey, instead of you taking this money out and paying capital gains, we both win if you just borrow this and we're going to lock up $140K. So if the market dropped in half, we take your money like, okay, or I have to come up with that margin call.

Yeah.

But there was an— it was— I mean, it was like 50% or 40% or whatever it was. And so they're saying, well, we'll let you just pay interest of 1.8%. We'll keep your money invested so it keeps growing. Here's the cash for the car. Wow. Yeah.

So as I understand it, that's what these, like, super rich motherfuckers are doing. Like, they're just like, like with all of their money, it's like they don't, like, make any money. They just have all of these assets.

Why? Because let's just say you've got $5 million in this brokerage account that you've had in there for 25 years and it's growing. It's got a bunch of gains in it. If you take money out of that, you pay cap gains. Realize if you borrow, you just pay interest.

You—

that money you borrow, you don't pay taxes.

Your 1.8% burn is way better than that 40% fucking slash.

Exactly. Yeah.

How does— how are the payments done on that?

Like, they just— I didn't even know they were happening. He just set it all up. He did it all for me. I just said put on autopay.

God, that's the shit right there.

Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was. That's a cool system.

Yeah, because I mean, I always see people talk about it and I know there's a million different ways to do this. You can have in a brokerage account, you can take loans out on that, or you can have a whole life insurance policy.

Yeah.

Taking loans out on that. Or you have a— you own a property and you can take out loans on that and use that to buy shit.

Yep. So it depends on how you'd be taxed on whatnot. But yeah, I mean, if you're a business owner and you can write any of that off, I mean, that's, that's the way to do it.

Well, that's what I want to figure out is I need to talk to a tax guy and he'd be like, here's the thing, look, I make a lot of content. And then like, if you're out there some way I can spin it where it's like this is a legitimate business expense because it will be like 100%, you know, it will be in your marketing. Yeah. Oh yeah. It's like, look, you got every single one.

I know there's a way to do it. I know there is. Yeah.

Yeah. I need to find that guy. Yeah, I can talk to you. See, that's the thing I'm all about. I need to find the person who knows whether it's Matt Hoodie Nutrition or it's Sean, who can help me with the mental health and supercharge my performance. And you find the tax guy who can be like, so if you guys are listening to this and you know a tax guy who can help me out, send me some referrals.

Yeah.

Yeah, dude, I think building a team like that is so important. So how old are you?

35.

35. And you have 3 kids?

Yep.

Okay, tell me about them.

7-year-old twins and a 4-year-old. Maybe she just turned 5. I'm gonna get in trouble for that.

Dude, I'm the worst with like birthdays and shit like that.

So bad. She's 4. Yeah. So the twins, crazy story with that. I won't go too into depth with it, but that was like part of what pushed me to leave the team and then start my own thing because we found out we were having twins. It was like, oh my God, that's crazy. We're super excited. Well, 18 weeks into the pregnancy, we go in for an ultrasound scan and they were taking way longer than normal. And then Doctor comes back in and she's like, hey, we got to take you to high-risk OB. We're like, oh shit, what, what's going on? There's something wrong with the heart for baby B. And we're like, we, you know, that's just like panic mode, right?

Yeah.

Go to the high-risk OB and found out that Zoe, my daughter, was gonna have what's called HLHS, hypoplastic left heart syndrome. So she was actually gonna have half of a heart. So where we have 4 pumping chambers, she has 2. Oh, shit. Yeah. So we found that out. And then obviously we had Zoe and she was into surgery 9 days after being born. So we started at Scottsdale Shae. That's where we delivered, got rushed over to Phoenix Children's same day. My wife stuck in the hospital. She had some blood pressure thing with my son. I'm over at PCH with my daughter. 9 days later, she had open heart surgery and they were stuck there for like 10 weeks. And then she had her second open heart surgery 6 months after that. And then the third one, I think when she was 4, 3 or 4.

Holy shit.

Yeah.

So what would it be like? What's it like now? Like, is she able to—

You would not know anything's wrong with her. Really? Yeah.

Can she do like all like physical activity and everything like that?

Yeah, she'll get exhausted quicker. But recently she hasn't because she— we actually this last year she went and she had to have a cath and they widened a couple of things, fixed a couple of things in there.

Yeah.

And it opened up the oxygen more. So now she doesn't get as exhausted as she did. And it's crazy, dude. So we run on like a figure 8 where we pump blood in and out of our heart. Well, when her blood gets done being used, it doesn't go back to the heart. It bypasses the heart and goes right to the lungs. So it's like she's on a circle because she only has one side of her heart. Oh, shit. Yeah, it's crazy.

That's crazy.

That, dude. I mean, you got to think of what I went through with that. I mean, you've seen my daughter with her chest cut open, and any time I'm super stressed out, I can go back to that and be like, this is not a big deal. You know, that adversity is like, I can always go back to that and I can go back to that too when I'm being hard on myself because I'm like, remember, like, like I chose to be positive in that. I chose it. Like, even when we were in the hospital, like, I would literally stay overnight with Zoe, go work the next day, every single day, because I knew when we got out of the hospital, because we were getting out of the hospital, she needed a home to go home. To go back to. And so I chose to be extremely positive through that. Yeah. And then set that and know my role in that because it's confusing for dad. Like, do you stay there all day?

Right.

I'm like, no, I trust these nurses. They're great. I'm going to leave them. I'm going to go work. My duty is to provide.

Yeah.

And we're going back. We're going to be back home. All of us are going to be together. I don't want to come home to a financial burden.

Dude, talk about a fire under your ass.

Yeah, dude.

So this is something that I've been talking about. I talk about this with my dad and with Mitchell, and it's like, I feel like, like, especially with men, like when we have some kind of traumatic event and it doesn't have to be, you know, your newborn daughter is getting open heart surgery, but whatever it is, whether, you know, you just suffered a breakup or you got fired from your job or whatever it is, you have two choices. Like you can either fucking wallow in that or you can decide, am I going to be the guy who's going to get past it? Am I going to use this? Right.

Yeah. And that's where we made that choice. I mean, we made— her and I made that choice together when we went to that high-risk OB.

Yeah.

So you and your wife? Yeah. Like, like our attitude on it.

Yeah.

And that was— we were in the parking lot, broke down crying, composed ourselves, and then got right down to like, what are we going to do about this? So at that time, she was between jobs and she didn't have insurance and we were cash paying everything. I was like, shit, I got to get you insurance. I call HR. They're like, we can try and do domestic partnership. It's going to be tough. And I go, what if I'm married by Monday? And this is on a Wednesday. She's like, yeah, that would work. I'm like, okay, cool. I'll send over the paperwork. So do we get in the car? We go to the— we also at that point named her Zoe. We're like, she has a name. She's a person. She's a survivor, right? And so we go to the courthouse, get all the docs, find some dude in Sedona, drive to Sedona that weekend. I buy a suit, she buys a dress. Like 4 people at her wedding, got married, came back, got her out of my insurance. And that was the attitude we had.

Holy shit.

Going into all that. So we had like the smallest, most meaningful wedding ever.

Wow.

Yeah.

Well, dude, here's the thing, man. I love that. Look, you got dealt the shittiest fucking hand of all time, but you learned, you played it right where I'd see some people that get dealt a shitty hand and all they can do is bitch about it.

Yeah. Yeah. Or they just— yeah. And they fall victim to it. Yeah, they let everything else crumble around them, and I'm like, you don't have to do that. It's convenient and maybe even comforting, but it's not good for you. Yeah, it's not.

When you just start to live in the past about things that have already happened— like, this is, this is another something we're always talking about is, dude, we do not want to live in the past. Whatever has happened has happened, and we got to move on from there. Yeah, but like, that's why we're all, uh, only focused on the future. What can I do?

Yeah, right.

Because everything that's happened, that's, you know, you're—

exactly. Well, even with the future too, it's like focus on the future and plan, but don't worry about it. Yeah. Because this is something that Sean taught me too. He really helped me a ton with this, is that the past doesn't exist. It just doesn't exist anymore. The future doesn't exist. The only thing that exists is now. Because the future— can you do anything in the future right now? No, you can't touch it. You can't feel it. You can't be there. You don't know. The past, you can't touch that. That's already happened. As close as you can get to right now in this moment, in this little bubble of yours, is all you have control over. That's it.

Christ, that's very grounding to think about.

And that's where I've just really studied the mind, my mind. And I— and it's putting in habits because it's just like saying if you stick to this diet, you'll look like this. It's one thing to say it. It's the next to do it and practice it and stay on it. And I'm constantly working on it. Yeah, I'm not— I have— do not have it mastered at all.

Well, well, back to what you're— what you're saying and you're talking about this idea is all you have is right now.

Yeah.

And humans are always going to revert back to their habits. They're going to do whatever subconsciously their body and their brain is accustomed to doing. So you have to be conscious about building these habits that are going to make sure that you subconsciously do what needs to be done.

Yeah. And then you just get better and better with practice.

Yeah. That's something you said earlier. It's like, I'm consistent. And I realized, like, that's something where it came from, like cutting off drinking. It made me more consistent. Is every single day I wake up at the same time, I do the same exact thing when I wake up every single morning. And just because of that, it's compounded on itself where it's like, that's why I look the way I look. That's why I'm able to have the energy to do the things I want to do. And that's why, like, just it fucking builds.

Not luck. Yeah, it's not luck. And it's not like this little grind period. It's consistency. Yeah, I can, I can guarantee that.

Yeah. And that's another thing is it's when it comes to it's not this little period, it's like, no, this is what I'm going to be doing for the rest of my life. And it's like also I start to— you start to love it. Like, you know, I, I love going to the gym. I love that. Like, I am so controlled about what I eat and I measure everything and I know exactly what I'm consuming every single day.

Yeah.

Because that's just part of like my process. It's what I do. I love doing it. And also I kind of like that most people won't do it. Yeah, it's like, yeah, dude, that is one thing that I do that I know you can never do.

Yeah, you won't. And that's where, like, you can't— you can get lucky, make money. You can't get lucky and get in shape. Yeah, you just can't, dude. Like, you can't. Even drugs won't do it, right?

It's— and it's the one thing, dude, you can't— like, you can't buy it. Nobody can take it from you. No, it's just something you got to earn.

You can't cut around it. And that's why I like That's why someone's in shape. Like, all the respect. Yeah, tough. It's tough. And then, you know, like, like you're saying to that too, it doesn't— then when it's like it's an inconvenience to eat out, like, I don't want to eat out. I'm not going to enjoy that because I'm like, hey, I have to account for more calories. Plus that might throw me off and I'm dialed right now. I don't want to fall off being dialed.

That's what I was— so I'm talking about because my dad's also— he's working with Matt Hoodie and he's lost a fuck ton of weight and now he's ready. He wants to get jacked.

Yeah.

And it's funny because we're talking about that. It's like, dude, I don't want to— like, I don't want to go get dinner or anything like that. Like, yeah, dude, look, I love getting that food, but like, I got things that are more important, and anything that throws me off of that, fuck it. Like, yeah.

Or like that day you were in the gym and like, you just were like, holy shit, I didn't know I could look like this. And then that night it's like, you know, if you're gonna go out for dinner, I'm like, no, I want to look like that tomorrow too.

Yeah. You know, well, and that's the best thing about like It— see, I think that everything starts— anything, everything starts with your health and your fitness. Yeah, I think that it's because once you do that, once you make that commitment to go to the gym, it makes it so much easier later in the day to not also get a cookie or whatever it is, to make the healthier food decision.

Yeah.

And then when you start doing that, then it's easier for you to be like, okay, no, I know that I need to— like, for me, I know that I need to sit down and I need to hammer out some calls. I might not feel like doing it or anything like that, but I know that that's what needs to be done.

Yeah. And you can always go to that. Like, you're— you can put in the work with fitness and always get the result. With work, it's different. So like, I can't consistently show up and like, oh, if I do this thing, I'm going to look exactly like this. You can do that with fitness. So that can be a—

it's 100% in your control.

Yeah. Like, so you use that for your success and you bring it to everything else that doesn't have— that's a little bit more variable.

Yeah.

And then you can stay consistent with that because this other thing, it's just like the whole like You, if you want to have an A+ life at work, you got to have an A+ life, you know, life at home.

Yeah.

Same thing with health.

Definitely.

And that's what I love it for, because it is that constant. You can always rely on it to prove to yourself, yes, I put in the work. Yes, I'm consistent. Now just bring it to business and trust myself. Yes.

Well, I like what you said about like how, like with business, like it's not only up to you. There are so many external factors that can come into whether or not you make money. Like you can do your best and everything. Sometimes it might not work out, but with fitness you can know absolutely 100%. It's a mathematical equation that if you, you know, do a certain amount of exercises and if you eat a certain amount of food, you're going to look a certain way.

Exactly.

And it's, it's 10 times out of 10, that's how it's going to work out.

Yep.

Where with, you know, everything else.

Yeah. So once you master the market, you can control those things, but you can always control fitness. And that's where that's like your like barometer. That's where you stay.

Yeah.

Consistent with it.

Well, and that's another thing that like um, like fitness is one way that like I choose to validate myself. And the way that I'm going to explain that is like, I know a lot of my value comes from the fact that I'm a fit, like strong person.

Yeah.

And like where some people validate themselves with money, like, and that's how that they know that like, or whatever, that they justify themselves that they're a high value person or whatnot is because they made a lot of money. Yep. But when they do that, when you validate yourself with money, you're going to realize you're going to attract that other people are going to validate you by your money. And that's why you attract and you, you know, you run into problems of, oh, like my wife's a gold digger, any of these kinds of things.

Right, right, right.

Is if I validate myself knowing that I'm a strong, fit individual. And another thing I love that you said is like, one thing is I just— I'm a positive guy. Yeah, that's the reason why I'm valid, why I'm high value, is because I'm always going to see the best in everything and I'm not going to let any kind of negativity in my life.

Yep. And that's enough. Yeah, I think that's the biggest thing is that's enough.

Oh, I mean, dude, it is like the— which, by the way, all of this started from my, like, fitness journey.

Yeah.

Is from that is when I've started to realize and, like, comb out all these other pieces of my life where I was like, I realized, like, there were some things that I was, like, negative about. Like, I would make fun of people. Like, yeah, like, you know, not like to their faces or anything, but like, you know, me and my girlfriend would, you know, see somebody, make fun of them, or like, I'm driving down the street and I see somebody and like, I'd being, I don't know, something, dude, that totally—

I know exactly what you're saying.

Now it's like, I need to get rid of that. Like, why am I putting that energy out there? And then just making even the subtle changes of that, of like when I walk by somebody, like for instance, like I don't like— because I hold myself to such a high standard, like somebody who's like super obese and fat, I don't fucking like that shit. But I realize it's like I need to stop judging them and putting that energy out there because I don't know, whatever, I just need to be accepting of it. Yeah, sure, it's not for me, but instead of when I see them and being like, oh, what the fuck? You know, it's just like, no, yeah, it's whatever. They're doing their own thing. They're, they're in their own race over there, whatever it is.

Yeah. And I do the same thing and I try to do— I try to go back to myself and say, why do I care? And I similar to that point, like if I'm at the gym and there's just some idiot there, you know, you know what I'm talking about. There's just like the idiot, right? Like the dude that's screaming in the gym and I'm like, this guy's a fucking loser, you know, in my head. And I'm like making fun of him in my head. I'm like, Why do you care? You know, like, and sometimes too, it's like really stupid stuff where I'm like making fun of someone in my head that really shouldn't be made fun of. And I'm like, there's a reason for that. And then look back at myself as like, is it because of something that I'm not doing enough? Yes. You know, and a lot of times that's the case. Otherwise I just truly wouldn't care.

Dude, I think, I think the habit comes down is to always just being able to analyze everything inwards of why is like everything comes back to me. Yeah, everything.

Yeah.

For anything I don't like somebody about or whatever it is, it comes back to me and it's awareness because these things are going to pop up.

But it's how quickly you're aware of them and you, you know, fix them, address them, whatever it is, or choose to go whatever direction with them.

Well, and here's the best thing about this path. When you start going down it of self-improvement and of fixing yourself is that it's the hardest in the beginning.

Yeah.

Once you like, you start to just bite off these huge chunks And then after, it's just slow refinements. Like you said, it moves a lot more into the micro.

Yes. Yeah, exactly. And then you're just, you're just barely moving the sail rather than changing direction of the ship. Yeah.

Which same thing is, is your fitness. Like, it's a lot easier.

Like, once you look the way you do, 5 pounds heavier than I wanted to be, let's tighten it up here. Not losing 25 pounds from like just getting that whole thing moving.

Right. Well, so this is where I'm at the point with, with Matt Hoodie. So I was like 220. I was in the mid-220s somewhere like that when I started with it. Right now I'm 195.

Nice.

And I'm still not as cut as I want to be, but it's like I've run out of runway here. I've been eating 1,750 calories for I don't even know how long. And it's like, fuck, dude, it's not really adjusting. He's like, well, look, here's the thing is you've gotten to this point, right? Like you've worked and you've had to lose this, what, 30 pounds?

Yeah.

Next time you do this, we're going to reverse diet you up, get you to maintenance. The next time you do it, you're only going to have to lose whatever, 5, 10 pounds.

Yeah.

And also you know, we're going to get your, your maintenance calories up to like a good amount. We're going to do that metabolic reconditioning. And then it's like you don't have to cut down all the way to—

no, 1700 calories. And what you'll notice too when he does that is that your glycogen stores will fill more, so your muscles will be more full.

Yeah.

And your veins will go crazy.

That's what he said. He was saying. So he's like, this next week I would schedule to like shoot a bunch of content in the gym because you're going to look great because—

yeah. You've been deprived for so long, your skin will get thinner from the muscle pressing against it.

Yeah.

And that's where the reverse dieting is like, oh, I'm— I've looked my best probably a week or two after he's done that.

That's exactly what he said. He said the next week or two is when you're—

that's when I'm like, holy shit, this is— this doesn't feel right. I should look like this.

So what did your— what did your, like, change look like? Like, what were you eating when you finished the cut? And then what did it move into?

So On the initial cut, I think we were down to like 275 for carbs. It's always carbs because the protein usually stayed the same.

Yeah.

Fat stayed the same. Let's say it's 275 carbs and then, I don't know, 100— no, not 100, like 200 grams of protein.

And how much do you weigh now?

194.

Okay.

And then we tried bringing in high days where we went to like 440 in carbs. So we jumped it quite a bit and those high days worked really well. And then when we reverse dieted, we just went right from like 270 or 280. Actually, no, I got up to 300 because we needed to ramp up my carbs because I was getting— I was coming down too fast. So I went from like 300 to 440. And then when I reverse dieted, we just jumped right to 440. And then I actually started to get more lean.

Oh, shit.

Yeah, as crazy as that sounds. And then we had to bump it up higher and higher. And then he kept pushing it and pushing it. And then we got up to like 530. Yeah, it's crazy.

Well, that's insane is you can look the way you are and eat how many fucking calories a day.

Yeah.

What are you like? What? Like, walk me through like a day eating for you. Just, just enthuse me because right now I'm like dying.

Yeah. Yeah. So I'll go back to like, let's go back like a week before I started the cut. I'm still— I mean, this is like 2 days into it. So in the morning I'd have those— have you seen those bagels he has? Those Better Bagels? Yeah, I have one of those. These stupid cat cookies from Trader Joe's, like kid food, right?

Okay.

And then I'd pound some egg whites, a couple of rice cakes, and then get to work. And it was like, I've been eating more, I guess, clean, you'd say, but it would be like a cup of rice and 4 ounces of beef. And then same thing with chicken, have that 3 times. And I'm like snacking on pretzels all day.

Wait, 3 times?

So like 3 different meals of like basically a protein and rice throughout the day. Yeah.

Oh shit.

Yeah. While I'm also snacking on a bunch of other carbs. And then even with that, I would do like I'd have like a little pack of gummy bears before I work out. Yeah, I'd have carbs while I work out. And then when I got home, I still had like 240 grams of carbs. Oh, I'd be like, I wish I would have eaten more at work. And then, dude, I just— I'm like so weird with the food, but I'll have that low-fat mac and cheese from Trader Joe's, a chicken burrito from Trader Joe's, and then fricking candy. Like man-child, dude.

I fucking love candy so much.

Yeah.

So like, I'm so—

so I tested that too. Like, like there, I had some skeptics because like, you're going to screw up your insulin, you're going to screw this up. I'm like, okay, like, I guess let's check it out then. So like, I literally ate candy every single night. And then I had my bloodwork done, all my lipids, all my, like, all my, whatever you'd call it, all my hormones were like spot on, actually better than they've ever been. Yeah, because I do HRT because I screwed myself up bodybuilding.

Me too.

Yeah. So I do that. So I do my bloodwork regularly and it's never looked better. And I'm eating a shit ton of carbs and they're not great carbs. Yeah, but my body's just using it. And I think like my theory on it is if you overeat them, It'd be like spilling gas outside of your car. If it's in your car and it's getting consumed, it's gas. But when it goes out of your car, I think that's where the quality makes a huge difference because you're overeating. That's the problem. People are overeating. It's not that this type of food, it's like, no, it's that you're overeating.

Yeah. Well, and that's another thing that I feel like I've gotten a much better relationship with when it comes to like portioning, because like before, like, like I really like to— I like to eat, I like good food. So it's like, fuck, dude, I'll eat a bunch of it. But now it's like I'm able to just appreciate like having, you know, a regular—

it's weird. You like teach yourself that portion control. Yeah, it's cool. I mean, he's got it dialed to you.

So tell me about your bodybuilding career.

Yeah. So I see when I started that right out of college, I did it. I think that was the first time I competed. It was like about a year out of college. No, I was actually still in college. That was, that was weird. So I first met with my coach. His name was Troy Tate. About— I think we did like 14 weeks to cut in. Like, I was pretty bulked up. And then I thought it was like we were going to work out every week and it was just diet. And so we would just— it was like he was super strict too. Like, no seasoning, nothing. And the calories were like super low. Carbs were super low. And basically we'd cut in for the show. I'd get down to like, like 3 or 4% body fat, like 2 weeks before the show. And it's like the worst feeling in the world.

That's what I've heard.

Oh, it's terrible. Like, it's— it is— it is terrible. Like, you're so depleted and it starts screwing because you need carbs for your brain. So your brain starts to go and you're just like stressed out and like this drained, sick feeling.

Yeah.

And my second show was the worst. And my second show was where I got— I'll show you pictures after, but that's where I got the most shredded. And I was like over— I was over-dieted. And basically what we're doing all the way up to the show was replacing— like we were replacing food with drugs. And I was taking— like if you gave me a list of shit you could take, illegal shit you could take, I was taking like 80% of it.

Really?

Yeah. And that's how we dieted into that show. And it felt so bad. You're depleted. The hormones are screwing with you. And, and then after that, I was like, this is, this is bad news. The third show, though, I did with just HRT, just 200mg of test, and I actually looked the best. I was more full. Yeah, it was like a— I think it was a 10-week diet into it. Yeah, it wasn't as terrible. But still, dude, when you're— when you have to shave that little bit off, that's when it's like just death. Yeah, like it sucks. Every single day sucks, dude. I— it's very selfish sport.

Well, here's the thing is I'm interested. I was talking to Devin Burr about it.

Mm-hmm. I know Devin forever. I actually met him competing.

Oh, really?

Yeah.

So he— I just got to meet him just like through temp.

Yeah.

And I've always followed him and stuff, but he was talking about bodybuilding and he was saying like, like, like, so my dad used to run marathons and he said like, yeah, if you want to learn self-discipline, like going and running a marathon is a great way to do it. And Devin was pretty much saying the same thing about bodybuilding.

100%.

He's like, bro, you just— how dialed you have to be and like the amount of self-control you have to have is The most mentally testing thing I've ever done.

Yeah, because it's not like you have a spurt of doing it. You're doing that for weeks on end. Yeah. You know, you know, I'd be like 4 weeks out and be like, I don't know if I can do this and I still have 4 weeks left of this. And it's like 50 minutes of cardio and then I got to, you know, 50 minutes later cardio while you're depleted too. Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's like 50 minutes of cardio is not terrible if you've got food.

Yeah.

When it's like every step, like you feel like nauseous and lifting just sucks.

Like you don't get any kind of pump. You're fucking weak.

Like, no. Just stringy.

Yeah, yeah.

But I learned so much about discipline. Like, so much about discipline.

Well, I think I want to do it honestly strictly for the Instagram optics, just to be like, hey, look, I'm doing this. And also over here, I got this going on. But I would say do it.

I know, I know what you're going to do, though. You're not going to half-ass it. So just be ready to frickin suck. And then the nice thing is, too, when you get that shredded, and you get— I don't know how you diet into it, but when you peel yourself back that far, when you fill back up, you get new muscle you were not going to have before.

Yeah.

Like every time I dieted down that low, I brought on new muscle that just wouldn't have gotten there. You get— you become like extremely anabolic when you go out of that starved state.

Yeah.

Into, you know, nourishment.

Well, I think especially if you do it right, like the way that Matt Hoodie would.

Yeah.

Show you.

That's where I think it would probably be a different experience because I only know like typical frickin hardheaded bodybuilding. Yeah, it was a lot of drugs, really low carbs, high protein, bring it down and then load up the day before. And I don't think that's how it's— I don't think that's how it would be done anymore.

Yeah. So my problem is, so I'm also on like TRT.

Yep.

And also I'm a pretty young person for it, but basically I don't know what it was, but I went and got my, my blood tested and my Total test was like 3. It was in the 300s.

Yeah.

And I'm a 24-year-old, like, man, like, should not be there. And so, uh, because I'm on TRT, if I did have to compete, I would have to be in like whatever kind of open division of—

yep, right.

You can kind of do whatever. And that's the thing is I don't really want to like take a bunch of gear. Like, the prospect of that kind of scares me.

I don't want to— I'll show you the pictures, dude, because I don't think you need that much. Yeah, no, I was— it was literally just That was it. And then I think we did a little bit of diuretics towards the end, which suck.

That's just to clean out all your water, right?

Yeah. It's like blood pressure medication, I think is what it was. I forgot what it was that we took, but like, you already feel really drained and then you take this and it's like this dragging feeling, like you're like sucked to the ground.

Yeah.

But then when you do that, it's like, dude, you see, you look like an anatomy chart. Like, it's insane. Like, there was parts of it too where I'm just like staring at myself like, What the fuck?

Holy shit.

Yeah, it's crazy. And I mean, dude, just for just to do it one time and to get yourself to look like that, I think is worth it.

Yeah.

You'll have those pictures forever, right? And it's a different level of shredded.

Yeah. Well, and that's it. I mean, look, this is something I love to do. Might as well get myself like— I'm not going to live my entire life and never, like, not get there, right?

No, exactly. Well, dude, it's like anything. And you're that kind of person where it's like someone is into hiking and they're super, super motivated, they're going to go freaking hike Everest or whatever.

Yes.

If this is your thing, then do it.

Yeah.

You've got the discipline for it and you'll prove something to yourself. There's mostly upside to it as long as you don't do it and then get obsessed with it.

Yeah.

If you do it and get obsessed with it and think that you're going to start a career out of it, I'm like, don't do that.

Yeah. Well, that's—

see friends do that. I'm like, don't do that.

Yeah, I do. I don't— I would never want to, bro. I don't think that like when it comes— I don't think there's any— there's— I shouldn't say any, but when it comes to like being a professional athlete on any level, I am not interested, dude. No, like especially bodybuilding. You're destroying your body doing it. Any kind of like fighting sports, fuck that. Yeah, football, I'm not doing that. Like you couldn't pay me money to go be an NFL player. I don't care how much. No, I'm not getting like my shit, my clock cleaned all the time, knocking on my brain.

You would— I don't think you'd enjoy those things either if that were the case. Yeah, especially not bodybuilding. Yeah, I think you gotta have to be on that crazy pro level. You gotta have something wrong with you.

Yeah, well, I think a lot of them I've seen that they talk about it and they're like, yeah, you know, they got some demons they're fighting.

Yeah, they've been through some shit, right?

Well, I definitely— I think that, um, just, I mean, from talking to you who've done it, who's done it before, and Devin, who said a lot of the same things, I think that it is something that I, uh I'm going to have to do eventually.

Yeah, I should do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So what about the, the spray tans? You got to tell me about that.

That's like, dude, I was always pale as shit up until the show. And then you just go in this little frickin— looks like those lights, like this little dome thing, and they just spray you down and you're like frickin orange. It's the weirdest thing ever.

What about the posing? So did your coach spend a lot of time like working on the poses and whatnot?

That's a lot of it. Yeah, a lot of it. Yeah. You find your, you know, kind of hide your weak points and express other things. But there's a whole art to that. Yeah. And you can see, you can see who is professionally coached and who's not based on their posing. And you can see like someone with huge potential gets up there, poses like an idiot, stays all tight and they're not like— because you really— what you have to do is anything that should be tight needs to be as tight as possible. Anything that should be wide, like your back, needs to look as big as possible. And you can just see from posing, like, just a couple little things. And then also with that, there's like endurance with posing, dude.

That shit is no joke.

Yeah. When you're up there on stage, your adrenaline's going. That— the second show I did was in California. I almost went to the hospital after it. Really? Yeah, because I was so depleted. And they did— I was in two classes and they did those classes back to back. I was backstage for like 5 minutes after my first— the first one where I had to do posing and then back out there. You know, not even 5 minutes later, and I was so frickin depleted. I was like, I felt like I was going to die. Really? Yeah.

Holy shit.

Yeah, it's bad.

Well, dude, you're standing there. I mean, people don't realize, like, you had to stand there. You're flexing every single, like, from your legs, everything. Like you said, your back. It doesn't matter even if you're right. Like, all of this and all of that is hard work in itself. Not to mention your current state of nutrition.

Yeah, it's like it's just health competition where you're the unhealthiest you've been your whole life.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy how it's like that.

Yeah, yeah. But it's just for that period. I mean, it's, it's, it's safe, especially if you're not doing a bunch of drugs. The diuretics are the dangerous part. Yeah, depending on the diuretic, definitely a dangerous part because you're screwing with all of your, you know, pH level. You're screwing with so much stuff, all of your hormones, and you could get, you know, you can get really sick really fast doing that.

Well, I'm, I'm also scared, like just because I've talked and it's like, I don't really know, like, if there would be other compounds added on. Like, and I've just heard some things about, you know, people who start taking gear and it's like it becomes very addictive. It's like once you look and feel a certain way, like, you kind of keep going after that.

Well, that's what I was doing. That was me into the second show.

Yeah.

And, you know, my coach at the time kept pushing more and more and more. And so when we came off that second show, we were going into a bulk and dude, it was like I thought we were gonna take a break from it. He's like, no, we're going to be doing a cc a week— not a cc, we're gonna do 1,000 milligrams a week of test and 1,000 milligrams a week of EQ.

Holy shit.

And I was like, a gram a freaking week, dude?

What are your— what did your test levels— like, what are your free test levels?

I never got checked for it. So when he did that, I asked him, well, like, shouldn't we go get— like, trying to get my blood work done? And he told me, no, don't worry about it. And at that Right when he said that, I just stopped completely. And then like 2 months later, got my bloodwork done. My total test was at 56. Oh, I was a freaking chick. Shit. Yeah. Yeah. It's like straight up freaking gender reassignment. Yeah.

Holy crap, dude.

Yeah. And then like, because we want— like my wife and I were talking, we were like, well, we want to have kids eventually. So I went to get my bloodwork checked and I was like, holy shit. And one of the doctors said, he's like, yeah, if you can have kids, it's going to be really tough. I was like, fuck, I just screwed up my whole life.

Yeah.

You know, so that was like very real and that scared the crap out of me. And then one of my buddies from the gym is a chiropractor. He knows way too much about hormones. He put me on this crazy PCT regimen and then like a month after that we started trying and boom, pregnant with twins. Yeah, I was like, thank God.

Well, that's something that I was worried about. It just like starting like TRT at a young age and like the fertility thing. That's something I need to go do is like get my fertility checked and do whatever I need to do on that end.

Yeah. And, you know, the second time, so with Phoebe, it took longer. It took like 6 months.

Yeah.

Like, and it was because the thing that sucks when you come off of it, you get tired. And my test was like, it'll sit at like 230 normally. But I'm not, I'm not freaking, I'm not optimal at that. I'm right now I'm running, I'm probably, I don't know, probably 700, 800, 900 range. And I know how I can perform in my entire life like this.

Yeah.

Now when you take that away and lose the energy, it sucks.

Yeah.

But it's just— it's a sacrifice you make for that little time.

Well, this is something I've wondered. So it was about the same time that I started TRT that I— it was actually— it was a couple of weeks after that is like when I quit drinking, I started doing like everything I needed to do on social media. Started having a lot more success in my business. And I wonder how much of that attributes to like finally being the person that like I'm supposed to be biologically.

Yeah, right. Totally. And it's really hard to like explain that. And that's why I like, especially like not to get into politics, but it really bothers me that it's not like, okay, if we're going to do this shit that's going on right now, open up hormones for dudes. Jesus Christ. You know, like make it a little easier. Like I get it. You can go to a doctor and it's pretty, it's pretty easy now. Yeah, but like, still, they're under scrutiny, you know, their performance enhancement drugs. I'm like, I'm not competing in any sport. Like, should I not be taking performance enhancement drugs for life? Yeah, I could be more successful. Like, come on, dude.

Well, no, I completely agree with you, but I think that when it comes down to it, I don't know, that's like conspiracy theory about it. But like, I think that like if you are in charge and you've got like, you know, you need to control a bunch of people, you probably don't want a bunch of high-test dudes running around. Yeah, because they're going to, they're going to be more brave.

Brave, they're going to be more strong, and they're going to take more risk. Yeah, that would be a real threat, right, to someone trying to gain control. I, I'm right there with you, dude.

So, but here's the thing is, I don't know, like, what is the reason? Like, why are testosterone levels dropping across the board like crazy? Like, I think, like, the average— like, they say now, like, normal is between, like, 300 and 600 or something like that.

I don't know. I think, you know, it gets blamed on diet. But even at that, I think it just gets— I think a lot of it's just like this. It's comfort.

Yeah.

You know, it's comfort in society.

Like, things are too easy nowadays.

Yeah. And it's like, no, you should feel good in your body, this and that. Like, I'll just say it. It's like, well, that's unhealthy. I, you know, like, like I get like there's the bravery part of it and I commend them for that. But like Lizzo, like, dude, that's not a good message to send out.

You cannot— you're showing people that that's okay.

Yeah, exactly.

It's not okay whatsoever. And also it's not beautiful either. No, it's terrible.

It's actually sick, you know? And so like, yeah, and that's, that's like, I don't know, I feel like that all attributes that like it's like I think society really just puts it out there. Just pat yourself on the back. You've done enough.

Yeah. Well, here's the thing. We've gotten to the point where, like, I feel like just so many basic needs are just— it's completely taken care of.

Yeah.

And everything is so good. Like, you know, do we have air conditioning? Like, everywhere. Like, nobody is starving in America. Like, you know, it's— everything is just so taken care of where it's like we got to find little things to—

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, no, dude, I'm totally— I totally hear you there.

Yeah, I don't know. I hope that— I don't— I just don't know how you reverse the trend of like what's going on. Like, that's something I think about. It's like, how do we make it so— like, that's one reason, like, like when it comes to like the rebellion, you know, the why we call it that is because I want to— like, I'm trying to find other people who are like, fuck that, dude.

Well, I think you're making an impact with it, and I think that's most of what you can control. You know, like what if you think of anything that would make an impact? There's not much you can do aside from being an example. Yeah, I think that's it. You know, people look up to you, you encourage them, you know, and you pull like the bully stigma from it and like, let— help people realize they can believe in themselves and they can have— they can have these things. And you've said that before. It's like anyone can be better looking, anyone can, can be fit. Like, get it out of your head that you can't.

Right.

You know, and don't, you know, don't use comforts of like, that's wrong for them to do that. There's that. It's like, I get it. That's its own thing. But like, if it's an issue for you, then yeah, then focus on that and you can be better, right? Someone needs to tell you you can be better and then not just say, no, it's okay. Yeah, you're safe here. It's okay. You need an asshole sometimes to kind of tell you, like, especially when you fall back on an excuse or there's so many fricking diagnoses like, like you can diagnose yourself with like 10 different mental illnesses and then you're sensitive to this food or this or that. And that's why you look and feel like shit. Like you look and feel like shit because you're not taking care of yourself.

Exactly.

That's the bottom line, dude.

There's nothing— there's no kind of condition you can have. Like, it doesn't exist out there that why you can't like look great and take care of yourself. No. Like I've heard, I saw some crazy people talk about, oh no, my thyroid is something. And I saw like there's like the difference of like people who do have that thyroid issue is like 100 to like 150 calories a day in metabolic burn.

I could see that.

Yeah. Come on.

Yeah. But if you can give someone a diet, like if you can diagnose them with something, then they can fall back on that crutch. Yeah, it's a crutch.

It's like, this is why I am. It's not because of me.

Yeah.

Because of this.

Yeah. Because it hurts to say it's because of you. But that's the truth.

Yeah.

And that, that's the only way you're going to actually ever get better. Otherwise, I mean, that's just like what's going to more conspiracies. Big Pharma, you know?

Yeah. Oh, man.

A lot of money to be made off of sick people, dude.

A lot of money to be made off sick people. And I think everybody had— we got a cure for all your problems. We need you to stay up all day. Got you. You need something to fall asleep at night. I got you, bro. Let's just have this and you pay us some money for it.

And, and it's not your fault. Take this medicine.

Yes. There's this— I read this book. It was on the Sackler family. I can't remember the name of it. I think it's Empire of Pain. And so the—

Oh, that's the, uh, that's the, uh, whatever the— what's the, what's the drug?

The OxyContin.

Yeah, I watched the show, the Netflix show on that.

Yeah.

Oh my God, it's wild.

Well, dude, I think I'd be really interested because I, I read this book and I was, I was super into it. It was talking about how like, dude, they're tied in everything, bro. Like the whole reason how that came about is like, dude, they ran all the, like the all the information, like the magazines and like the newspapers for medical professionals. They were doing that. They were saying, hey, yeah, you got to use our drugs that we're making. They owned the drugstore and then they were on the FDA like that. The whole thing is just all one guy. It's just this Sackler dude. Yeah, that's the reason why the proliferation of OxyContin and Vicodin and all these different things that he made.

Yeah, it's wild. The show's called Dopesick.

Dope sick.

Yeah. And I thought it was like exaggerated, and I look it up, I'm like, holy shit, that's all facts.

It's terrible.

Wild, dude.

I— that— I think that when you look at like things that really need reform, it's number one is like the healthcare, like what's going on with that and the pharma. It's like, dude, I saw a really good analogy to this. Say if you take your dog to the— to the vet and it's like overweight or something, like, dude, you need to like feed it less, exercise it more. You take the same person an overweight person, the doctor, like, okay, you need to take these, here's your prescriptions that you need to start taking, this and that.

Yeah. Why do we take better care of our pets than we do ourselves?

Yeah.

Yeah, it's wild, dude.

I mean, I don't know, that needs to change. I think— I don't know, I don't know the solution for like public education, but I think whatever is going on, I mean, you know, it's just they're teaching.

As far as you and I, it's just making a bit— a bigger impact and, um, be an example. Yeah. And to my kids.

Absolutely.

To their friends and whatever.

Yeah.

You know, and it's putting a positive twist on it. I think that's it. That's all we can do, you know?

Well, I think it's definitely a good place to start.

100%.

Yeah. Well, hey, Matt, I really appreciate you taking the time to come on today.

Thanks for having me on, man. Awesome.

It was super valuable for me.

Likewise.

I got a lot to— I want to ask you still, but yeah. So again, anybody you guys need to check out Matt's stuff, it was @mweber888 on Instagram.

Yep.

Go ahead. See what he's got going on there. Guys, if you're watching this video on YouTube, please make sure to drop a like, give a comment about something you learned, share the video with somebody who might get value from this. And if you guys are listening on Spotify, Apple Music, or anywhere else, I really appreciate it if you would take the time to leave a review. It helps me. I want to learn what I can do better and what you guys are currently liking. But as always, thank you guys for listening, and we will see you on the next one.