The Rebellion: Episode 9 | Wholesaling Vs. Novations w/ Rich Wonders : Novation King

Welcome back everybody, this is episode 9 of The Rebellion and today on the show I have somebody who I believe is one of the best closers of all time. Um, I watched this man come into my office and talk to sellers and I was blown away by his understanding of the sales process, his emotional IQ of being able to determine where somebody was at in their decision-making, and also asking for the sale. This man is incredibly knowledgeable on all things real estate. He uses a very interesting strategy that we're going to talk a lot more about, but without Without further ado, please welcome our guest, Rich Wonders.

Man, it's an honor, man. Appreciate you, Tyson. You are a stud. You are inspiring, man. It was great coming in your office, seeing your operation, the way you run things. So yeah, I'm excited to chop it up, talk some business, talk some fitness, all that good stuff, man.

Absolutely, man. So Rich is like literally just an ideal person about what the— what the Rebellion is about. So I say that this podcast is like— this is for people who are against the status quo of like doing the normal 9-to-5 thing, you know. you know, working for a company and going, getting a mortgage, making just enough to pay the bills, and then, you know, having the wife and the kids that they hate, and then that, you know, that's it. So, um, you know, you go out there, I know that you strive for the best, you strive to take care of yourself, which is something I know we're both about, is the fitness. I see every single morning you talk— talk to me about what, what your fitness regimen is like.

Yeah, so Normally I'm in the gym by about 6 a.m. I do two a days for the past, like, maybe like 6 months.

Really?

Yeah. I'm kind of getting away from that. My second workout's normally kind of a light workout, but I do just regular push-pull leg split. Yeah. Normally 6 days a week. And then like the 7th day I'll just do like mostly calisthenics or I'll do some jogging.

That's what I've seen is you do a lot of like functional fitness sometimes, like things like I see you out there, you're pushing sleds and you're doing the hard stuff.

I love it, man. Like, I found like the more I can control, like giving myself hard stuff to do, then the stuff outside of my control just becomes a lot easier.

Absolutely.

Because I've already kind of punished myself and beat myself up, and then the rest of the day is kind of a breeze after that.

Yep. Well, I love that point you make about doing the hard stuff that you can control. Something I'm always harping on is that fitness is the foundation because it is the one thing that is absolutely only in your control. There's no outside force that's gonna make you go to the gym or eat clean. So once you can master that, then you can start mastering these other realms of your life. I always like to refer to business because business— things in business are not just in your control. There are outside forces that can come and fuck your shit up.

Oh yeah, no, absolutely. And they do, especially wholesale. I'm not like— there's a lot of variables.

Oh yeah.

So yeah, and I think it is a good foundation too where it builds that, that confidence where you make promises to yourself, you keep those promises. Like when you roll up, like people see right away, like what you're, how, what you eat, how, you know what I mean? Your level of how you take care of yourself. And I think it's just good to like set that high standard for yourself. Cause like most of my life I was not in good shape at all.

Yeah.

I did sales for 10 years where I was driving around. I ate out of Circle K, Taco Bell, all the worst things, smoked weed every day. Like, you know, skinny fat, just didn't really make myself a priority at all, just kind of treated myself like shit. And, you know, I was still high performance in a few areas, but all these other areas I was lacking. And, you know, as I've gotten older, had kids, I'm like, man, you know, I really always wanted to live like this ideal life. And I'm like, I'm not taking these steps to do this. And I kind of just had an epitome, like, you know, 265 pounds, very low muscle tone, horrible fitness level. I smoked cigarettes for years and years. And, you know, one, you know, it was actually one of my kids was like pushing on my stomach. It was like, yeah, Daddy's got a big tummy. And like they were like laughing at me. And I was like, man, this, this hurts. Like, you know what I mean? And like, you know, I always like had like the mindset of like excellence as far as like sales and business. But I'm like, how can I preach to my kids and I'm not taking care of myself? And you know, it's just, there's that, uh, that disconnect, right? Where it's like, yeah, you're saying you can do anything you want. You can be whatever you want. Yet I'm sitting here out of shape, abusing my own body, not on the path to living a long life. And, uh, you know, I think when you can take the steps, like, like you're saying, like even like what you eat. If you can be intentional with what you eat, like, that is a base level because what you eat also, like, fuels your body. And there's a direct connection. Like, if I, like, skip, like, a workout, like, there's, like, this, this energy and this anxiety that's, like, that's pent up. Like, our bodies are made to move.

Absolutely.

And, like, we're made to be strong, you know what I mean? I fully believe that, you know what I mean?

Oh yeah, it does.

It doesn't make sense you know, to, uh, to go through life and, um, you know, just have, have like a sedentary lifestyle.

Yep. So dude, you said so many things there that I really want to touch on. Number one is I love the, this idea of you setting an example for your kids where it's like, how can I say that, hey, you know, you can do whatever you need to take care of yourself, that you can chase whatever your dreams, right? These kinds of things if I'm not living it. Right. Right. And kind of having the— so would you say that that is the moment, like that was sort of like the breaking point when, you know, your kid like touching your belly, where it's like, fuck, I gotta figure something else out.

Oh yeah, no, absolutely. And like, I would look in the mirror and, you know, when you go on vacation, you're not in shape. Yeah, it's a different experience going to the beach. It's a different experience, you know, you know, especially if your partner is in shape and you're not. Like, it's— yeah, you just know, like, man, I'm, I'm kind of fucking up here.

Well, another thing is that you said, um, It's something you can tell about everybody. So like when, when you walk into the room, you— when you walk into a room with people you don't know and you're fit, people instantly know, oh, that guy respects himself, he takes care of himself. And that's the thing is I always want to have that, that baseline level of respect for myself that I'm going to— like you said, bodies are meant to move, they're meant to be strong. Yeah. And that's a final point I want to touch on is that I think like as men we are meant to be strong. And I feel like there's kind of this movement. I don't know if you've noticed it of like de-masculinity.

Oh, absolutely.

They don't want men to be strong anymore.

Yeah. I mean, they really, you know, want people under their control and you know what I mean? They want you to go work a job, pay your taxes and die basically.

Yeah.

Like that's, that's the path that's set up. Like if you just go with the flow, like you'll make just enough money to get by. And yeah, I just knew that that wasn't for me. I was like, look, I mean, I either got to do whatever it takes. And if I, if I can't make it happen in business, fitness, and all this stuff, I'm just going to run myself into the ground trying rather than just not even try.

Like, yeah. But if you didn't, you, I think that we all know good, full and well that if you do, if you do do your best in those 3 things, you do take care of yourself. You do find a purpose and you're constantly striving for that, success is inevitable.

Oh, absolutely. In fitness, I thought it was so much more complicated than it is. Right. Like, I'm like, ah, you know, I've got crappy genetics. Like, my dad didn't really have, uh, you know, we're tall, I'm 6'4", but he didn't have muscle and he was, you know, overweight as he got older. And I just thought like, oh man, you know, maybe I just got like, you know, the the shit end of the stick. But in reality, like, if you control what you eat and do it intentionally and you exercise every day, like, you will lose weight, you will look better, absolutely feel better.

And what do you think about people who just blame their genetics, who just say like, oh, I could never do that, I'm genetically predisposed to—

I mean, honestly, I was that guy, so I can't— I, you know, I would just encourage everybody like to really tap into what you truly want in life. That's, I think, is the starting point, is having that vision. And most people, including myself for a very long time, don't take the time to do that. They're so distracted by everything, distracted by chasing, you know, the material things or entertainment or getting drunk and having fun and all these things. But if you really sit back and think of like What do I actually want? Like, if I could have anything that I wanted, like, what, what would that look like? And then having that and then like attaching like a deep emotional attachment to it and really focusing on it, then you can kind of design your decisions around, is this taking me closer towards this or is this taking me further away from it? And living with that intention, um, is freeing. Like, oh yeah, discipline. You know, I used to think like, oh man, you know, if I'm disciplined, then I can't do all these things that I want to do. But what I found is the more disciplined I am, the more free I am because my choices become much more obvious.

Yep.

When you just chase pleasure and distraction, it's, you're chasing something and then you, you know, you go and get the thing and you realize like, oh man, this wasn't really that cool. Like I'm hungover. You know, I made bad decisions.

Yes.

And all, you know, if you really just choose what you, what you want most instead of just looking for something to alleviate the pain or the boredom or the frustration. I think that's where the true satisfaction comes from because you're really, you're striving after something that you feel is a noble and worthy goal and something admirable. And that's where you're in the position to help people too, because other people will see that And it gives them a chance to be inspired. Like, I was— there's lots of people that inspired me in my journey, and it took me a while of like looking at that stuff for it to sink in. But I knew, like, I knew I wasn't on the path I wanted to be. Like, I worked a dead-end job that I had maximized. Like, I basically hit the glass ceiling. I was working as much as I could work and essentially like making as much money as I could make. And like, You know, I knew like I, I had to just get uncomfortable and try something completely different. I think like, like the fitness and the business, there's so many parallels.

Oh yeah.

Because you have to really be intentional about it for, for both things. Like you will not get successful in business by accident. Mm-hmm. And you will not, you'll not just get ripped and shredded by accident. Like it doesn't, you know, unless you're just one of those lucky people that have great genetics so you can do whatever, but. Uh, you know, for the average person, you know, it takes a lot of intentional work to make that happen. And it takes a lot of work, uh, both business and fitness where you're putting in the work and doing everything right. You're not seeing any results or you're seeing very minimal results. Uh, I worked out for a full year just to look average, basically like just to not look fat. And, uh, same with business. Like, you know, when you're first getting started, if you're in wholesale, you're cold calling, you're getting hung up on, you don't have the money for your own marketing, or you're working for someone else. Like, there's all this work you have to put in and you don't see the result. But once that seed like breaks through the soil and you start to see that little result, you can use that as your fuel. And as it— I, I like— at least it was for me, like, the more result I saw, it became so much easier because I was like fuck, this is working. Like, it's actually happening, you know what I mean? And, uh, you know, I was more excited about my results in the beginning than I even am now, you know what I mean? Now it's like, you know, you get, you get hard on yourself for even the littlest things, you know? But I think it's good because it just, it raises your, your expectations.

Yeah.

And your standards. And I, you know, you're right, dude. Like, when someone walks in and they're, they're fit, like, I already know, like, this person's disciplined.

Mm-hmm.

Like, you know, on some level they have control of themselves and it's almost like it makes them like more trustworthy in a way.

Oh, 100%. I think that somebody, when I see somebody and they're fit, I already know that, okay, this person has like control of what they do. That's someone you can count on, at least to some degree.

Sure.

It's just on a baseline thing. 100%. Another thing, like, so you talk about, look, nobody is gonna— my favorite thing to hear is when people like say, oh, I don't want to work out. They're like, oh, I don't want to look all bulky and like that. It's like Motherfucker, you will never look like that on accident. They're doing that. They work really hard. But it's the same thing in business. You're not just gonna trip on your dick and fall into a successful business. Like, that is earned. Right. You know, it's like, people point to these exceptions, but the exception is not the rule. The vast majority of business owners who are successful have spent, you know, painstaking hours grinding, doing the shit that nobody else wants to do, over and over again. And eventually, I love the analogy, the little, you know, seedling starts to sprout open, and then they just use that as fire until people at the end, they just see the great big fucking oak tree. They don't realize that came from a tiny little sapling, right? And, and how hard they had to work to grow those roots to where that sapling could even peek its little head out.

And then I think another big myth that gets perpetuated is people think like if someone wants to be successful, if they want nice things, if they want to, uh, you know, if they want to look great, they think that it's like, like being shallow or being selfish. But honestly, I was the most selfish when I was broke and in bad shape because I always chose comfort and I chose, you know, I was afraid of risk and I was afraid of the work. And really, like, you know, everyone around you suffers if you're not striving for those things, you know what I mean? Like, you know, couldn't play with my kids the same way. They weren't proud of me the same way. You know, saying like, oh, I'm not materialistic, I don't care about that stuff. But like, hey, look, like, if you run into a major problem, like, you don't have the money to take care of that. Like, that's a horrible feeling.

Yeah.

And I, you know, I've been there, like I've been, you know, before I had kids, like I've been couch surfing, you know what I mean? I didn't have a car for periods of time and it's tough. And the, you know, looking back now I can see it was just like, you know, I just, it's so easy to make excuses to justify your position. And doing the hard work is, you know what I mean? That's, that really is the difference. And part of the hard work is also being intentional and planning it out and let that whole thing of getting in touch with the vision. Like if I could give like a young person any advice, I would say, look, I would spend some serious time getting to know yourself.

Yes.

Uh, thinking of what it is that you want out of life. And then trying to figure out what steps you can take today to move somehow towards that.

Yep. And I want to add something into that. You also got to realize you got to look at yourself and be like, what bullshit am I doing right now that I need to get rid of? That's stopping you from getting there.

That's probably 1,000 times more important than the adding, the getting rid of the bullshit.

It's, it's addition by subtraction.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Um, dude, that's absolutely right. Grant Cardone talks about that. He's like, when I figure out, you know, if I want to go do something, first I need to realize what do I need to get rid of to get there, right? And for me, like, that was the biggest thing. And dude, I mean, I've been talking about this so much, like, you are literally like just speaking right now into me. So I, I love what you're saying, but it's like, dude, spend some time figuring out what you really want, what you really want, because everything out there that's worth wanting, there's a price that's attached with it. And then you got to look deep inside yourself and understand, am I willing to pay that price, right? You know, and then from there it's all right, it's, it's simple backwards engineering. You have the vision, then you need to make your daily actions in line with that vision. So it's what habits do I need to add in, right? You want to look fit? Everybody knows the answer to how you get there. Are you gonna do the things every single day that you need to? I want to make money. Now this is where it gets a little bit convoluted. People are like, oh, I don't know. Well, okay, look, you got to be a business owner. Like, that, that's what you got to do. Yeah, yeah, sure, there's exception. Oh, what about this job? No, you got to be a business owner. We're not worried about the fucking exceptions. And then you need to start doing things. You need to start solving a problem every single day, and you need to get the best you can at solving that problem, and eventually you're gonna get paid for it because you're worried about helping somebody else out.

Yeah, and you need to spend— another thing I would like suggest to like people that are, that are trying to change their life is figure out what your strengths are and and then also look for people that, um, your success leaves clues, right? And I would spend as much time as you can, uh, learning high-value skills.

Yes.

And I think the most important skill for most people and the one that will propel you the, the fastest is if you learn, if you sharpen your communication and sales skills. Yes. Those two things. If you're a great communicator And, and all sales is really is communication.

That's why I love you say that. Yeah, that's why I love that you're— before you even said sales, it was communication.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Because if you're a great communicator, even if you're not in a sales position, if you can articulate, you know, ideas in a, in an attractive way, that will— oh my goodness. Like even in corporate America, right? Not every, you know, being a business owner is great. You know, not every single person is meant to be a business owner though. Right?

Right.

And you can make good money being an entrepreneur and maybe not being, you know, you hear, I think it's Gary Vee that talks about it, like maybe you're not the guy, but you're like the number 2 or the number 3 guy in a big company. And that, that suits what you do. Right. But if you're a good communicator, that's, you know, one, it makes you much easier to be around. Yes. And two, you know, you can, you know, being able to communicate effectively allows you to take control of situations.

It's exactly right. So I mean, I'd sum that up as sales is communication, and communication is a two-way street. So you got to know how to receive information and figure out exactly what somebody else is trying to tell you, understand their world. And then it's a sending street, right, where it's the other way, the opposite direction, where it's you got to explain your idea of the best possible situation for them. That's what I feel that sales is, understanding their problem and then showing you, here's how I would solve it.

That's, that's a massive bomb you just dropped.

Yeah.

The, the, cuz you're right. Like being a great listener is so important because that people will tell you how they need to be communicated to. Cuz I, you can have in your own mind the perfect thing to say to someone, But maybe to that particular person, that's not, that's not, you know, what's going to move the needle.

Yep.

So the better you get at listening, and same with sales, like sales and calls, uh, like my, in my, my sales process, the whole front end of it is very low friction and it's very, uh, non-intimidating for the seller. And the whole thing is designed to get them to open up and get them start talking.

So when you're on the receiving end of the communication.

Absolutely.

The dichotomy there.

Yeah, absolutely. Receiving all that information and just, you know, basically, you know, putting all that stuff in my back pocket and I'm going to come back to it later rather than, you know, try to address everything right up front. I just want them to give me as much data as possible on the property, on their situation, on their fears, on their hopes and dreams, all these things. And then that allows me later where I can come back when I deliver the solution I can wrap it up all in a nice neat package and hit them with it all at once.

But when you— but when you're doing that, you kind of flip the switch, right? Because at the beginning you said it's very like low, low intimidation, very open. But when you are delivering that package, don't you— wouldn't you think that you get a little bit more assertive?

Oh, absolutely, 1,000%. I turn, uh, at the, at the end, I turn up and they need to stop me, dude.

It is, it is like I can It's tangible. I can feel it. So guys, um, Rich goes live on Instagram. And what is your Instagram?

Uh, Novation King.

So @NovationKing, and that's N-O-V-A-T-I-O-N-K-I-N-G. Yep. @NovationKing. I will— you will go live and you will show your negotiations with sellers?

1,000%. Normally I'll go live at least once every day.

Yeah.

And you know, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn't. You know, and I think that's good for people to see.

Oh, absolutely.

When you just show the highlight reels of everything going perfect after the fact, it gives people like a false sense of what things actually are.

Yeah, you're not hitting bullseyes every single time.

Yeah. And I think it's good to see like, you know, not, not every call is going to be a deal.

Yeah.

And that's a big part of it is time management and learning like, you know, what, when there's gold there to dig for. And once you've discovered that maybe there isn't, You know, you still go the whole way with it and you still go through the same process. But it's important to see that because otherwise I think people just get frustrated and they think like, oh well, my leads just suck, or yeah, they blame something else. And in reality, even the best closers, like, you can only close the people that, you know, are ready to sell.

Yeah, I mean, there's— it's not everybody, you know. I want to go back to this analogy of like— or not this analogy, but go back to this idea of flipping the switch. The way I like to think about it is in sales, you're driving a car, and in the beginning, the prospect is driving. So they're coming around and they're calling the shots, they're telling you what's going on. But once you've gotten all the information and you know where you're going and you know that you can help them get there, that's when I'm going to yank them over. They're going to sit in the passenger seat, I'm getting in the driver's seat, and I'm in fucking control. I'm driving. And that's when I'm going to show them and I'm going to get them to the promised land that is the destination. And you need to know when to flip that switch, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And it is so important to be a great closer. You know, you want to, you want to get them to open up and then kind of the second part of the process is asking, uh, intentional questions to direct them to sell themselves. So you're, rather than you trying to convince them of something, You're basically laying out this pathway where they're following the breadcrumbs and they're going your way. And then along the way you're slamming all these other doors. You know, I like to think of it like walking down a hallway, right? And then at the very end is the door I want them to walk through. So I'll purposely present these other things and bring up these other things to get them to think of it. So as we're walking through the hallway, we're slamming those doors because a lot of people just try to walk them through the hallway. And get them right to the end. And then when they get to the end, they're like, well, what about these doors? Like, these doors are still open, right? And, um, they, they say a mind convinced against their will is of the same opinion still.

Yep.

So if you can ask great questions, then the seller will sell themselves. And you'll be surprised, a lot of times they'll sell themselves in a different way than I would have tried to sell them. Yeah. So you have to give them— you, you got to give them a little bit of, of room where, you know, because not everybody's going to think, think like us, you know what I mean? And, you know, more than likely, especially like sellers and wholesale, like they're, they're living completely different lives. A lot of them have significant personal problems, you know what I mean? So they're not thinking in the same way. So asking those great questions and kind of eliminating options then at the end you become the obvious choice and you, you have to earn the right to take the steering wheel.

Yes.

If you just try to take the steering wheel, you'll get the laydowns. Like, it will work. It's much better to be too aggressive than to be too passive. But if you want to operate on like an elite level, I think there's, there's this give and take and they will give you that permission. And when you close with action, it actually is a much better experience for the seller because people hate making decisions. And they default to inaction and they're naturally confused. So when, you know, when you're nice and low friction throughout the process, when you do turn up at the end and take control and start moving quickly, they're like, whoa, like people love it. He's, he's convinced like this is the obvious path for me because man, he was so subdued before and now he's like excited and that transfer of energy makes them feel better.

Oh yeah.

And you know, we've all experienced that, right? Where like we, you know, we're not sure about a product. There's a great salesperson there. They, they, they go over everything. They answer all the questions and you're like, dude, this thing's awesome. Like I want to buy this. Like, let's go.

Like your decision's made.

Yeah.

That's how you, they, you know, they did a damn good job.

Yeah. And it, you know, it's a fit too. You know what I mean? Cause like when you're in sales too, like you, we've all experienced too, the opposite of that where you go somewhere and then someone's just trying to close you. And it's annoying as hell. Yeah, where it's like, rejected. It's like disrespectful. It's like, dude, like, you're not gonna get over on me. Like, tell me about the thing, make it appealing, but don't just try to close me.

Yeah, guys, I'm telling you, if you haven't, you need to watch Rich's lives. Like, I've seen you— like, he'll sit there and like, he'll like mute the phone and like describe like what's going on. You'd be like, see, look, like right now he's unloading the problem. And like, it's just his understanding of where he's at in the process is masterful. Like, you, like, you are an expert when it comes to that, and it shows.

Like, I appreciate it.

Well, it's just, it's incredibly impressive. It's something that I watch and I want to emulate that. I'm like, wow, this guy knows his shit. Like, and I think it really comes down to your understanding of people in general. I can tell just like by the way you talk, you know, you know human nature and just being able to read people. I love how you said like not knowing— you don't know exactly the best way to communicate to somebody, and instead letting them like figure it out and do it in their own terms. It's just like, that's so next level, right? It's chess, not checkers.

Well, I've been very fortunate, honestly. Like, I've had some great mentors and great teachers along the way, and I think that like truly gave me a leg up because I mean, to decode all this stuff yourself is extremely difficult. Like, I can't take, I can't take credit. And there's been people that I've taught that have done amazing and now have their own business and make lots of money. And there's people that I've taught that didn't do shit with it. Oh, you know what I mean? So it's like, you know, you, you want to, uh, you know, give credit where credit's due, but it's a, it's a shared credit. Yeah. But nobody, nobody becomes successful by themselves.

Yes.

And, you know, I would just recommend for people like starting out, you know, find, find the people that have, you know, things that you admire about them and figure out what those qualities are. And it's just like a buffet. There's gonna be some things where you're like, hey, I admire this about them. This part about them really isn't me. You know what I mean? But take bits and pieces cuz I think one of the beautiful things about being a man is you get to build your character.

Yeah.

And you create your own value.

You decide.

Yeah, because men aren't inherently born with value, you know what I mean? And it's unfortunate, like, most men go through life living a miserable existence, you know what I mean? They don't make the money they want to make, they don't get the respect at home, or they don't even, you know, have anyone at home. Um, and I, I think it's, I think it's really sad, and no one You know, when people talk about men, they'll, you know, they talk about the top 1% that are like running the world. That's not the experience of like the average man though.

Right.

The average man. Um, and I think part of it is there hasn't been, you know, a lot of people grew up without dads or with dads that didn't set a good example. Um, I was fortunate, like my dad passed when I was 12, but before that, like he instilled, so, and intentionally did this because he knew he was going to pass. He instilled like a lot of really important values in me that I've carried with me. Yeah, I did martial arts, and he, you know, he wanted me to pick a thing and dedicate myself to become the best at it. Yeah, and I think that's very important, like, for kids at a young age, is to get that concept of find something you enjoy and max it out. And you may try different things, and you start to try to max it out, you're like, well, 'Actually, this ain't— this isn't for me. It's not what I thought.' But keep trying those things and then find something that you can dedicate yourself to and just become the best at it, dude.

Absolutely. People will try something, they're like, 'Oh, I suck at this,' and then what, you're done? Like, right, bro? No, that's not how this works. You fucking try again on something else. Yeah, right? Like, just be like, look, when I grew up, I played— I played soccer and I loved playing soccer, and when I was little, I was really good. And then eventually, um, moving into like junior high and high school, people started getting a lot taller, stronger, faster than me, and I started falling below the pack. And I realized, oh, like, this isn't for me anymore. Like, I'm not gonna become the best in this, right? And that's fine, right? I did something, I tried it, I loved it, I had a great time, learned a lot of lessons from it. But I don't just give up on life because all of a sudden I can't fucking play soccer. Instead, it's time to figure something else out.

Right.

Also, another thing is like what you said about as a man, you are inherently born without value, and that is true. When you just come out, like, the world doesn't owe you fucking shit, and it shouldn't either. You have to go out there and earn it, and there are many different ways you can do that. But as a man, you need to build your status. Some people will be fortunate, and they're gonna be born into an incredibly wealthy family, and they're already gonna have money, and that'll give them status. But there are other ways to earn status and respect. Number 1, the one that we've already talked about, everybody has control of, is become fit. That will give you inherent status. And then there's all these other ways where you can build yourself up, and guess what? It's fucking awesome because it's up to you. You get to decide how you build your status, right? But it doesn't just happen for you.

Absolutely, and that's, that's the beautiful thing too, is, you know, as you work on yourself and make yourself more valuable, you can give that value away and that's much more, much more satisfying, right? Like being able to take care of your people. Being able, you know, when you start a business, you're able to provide for other people and their families and give them an opportunity. And even just doing the right thing, you know, if you're not, you know, self-conscious and selfish and you, you know, share that with the world, like even on just social media, posting, posting your workout, right? Like, You know, a lot of people think like, oh man, you, you know, or I won't say a lot of people. Some people think, oh, someone that posts, uh, you know, themself at the gym, post themself, uh, you know, flexing and all this stuff. They're just, they think they're the shit. They think, uh, you know, they're better than everybody else. Now to certain mind, they may think that way, but to someone else, like, you know, I have so many people that hit me up that are like, dude, like you inspired me to start working out. Like I saw you when you were, you know, out of shape. Like I look like your before picture. And I've been hitting the gym where you gotta just realize like, look, what are you trying to do in life? If part of your thing is you wanna inspire people, show your wins, show your losses, share it. You know what I mean? Because, you know, we live in a very connected world and if you try to isolate yourself and become an island, one, you're gonna miss out on massive opportunities.

Oh yeah.

And two, The root of that is not humility. The root of that is actually in most cases either one, you know, someone that has a bunch of stuff that doesn't want to show it. It's because they don't want people to be using them. They don't want, they're afraid of what people will say about them. Oh, if I show my nice stuff or the things that I do, people are going to think that, you know, I'm full of myself or cocky. You know, to each his own, but like honestly, like I want to win massively. I want to inspire lots of people. And I don't think there's anything wrong with working hard and being successful and, you know, putting that energy out in the world because there's so much negativity out there. Right. And there's so much stupid shit that gets promoted on TikTok, on Instagram and all these things. It's like, why not promote something that's actually, if people will follow that same path, their life will get better.

Yes.

And you gotta just say like, look, there's gonna be a certain percentage of people that are gonna think I'm an idiot or think that I'm full of shit or think whatever negative thing. It's not for them.

It's, it's a reflection of themselves.

Absolutely.

I love what you say. Like, so, so let's, let's take the example of like workout videos, right? So one is I've realized for myself is like there is a difference between me posting something for myself and posting for other people, but for some person who sees me post a video of me working out, for some people they're gonna say, oh, like, look at this fucking douchebag, like, he just wants to show everybody this and this about himself, whatever. But it doesn't matter to me what that person thinks. If I put it out there with the intent of I want to show somebody what's possible or how to do something, then it doesn't matter that it reached that douchebag who didn't get the right message.

Right.

But it does matter to exactly the person who was looking for that and saw that and was like, holy shit, like, I knew him and I knew him when he was skinny or this and that, and now he looks like that. He's showing me it's possible. Yeah, it all comes to your intent. So if your intent is to help other people and to put out something that's positive and good, then it doesn't matter if other people received it as negative, as long as like you have the intent of like, look, I'm trying to put it out there, I'm trying to put out goodness and share positivity. Yeah, then it doesn't matter what all these fucking dipshits think.

And the internet is a— people think like the internet's the problem, but the internet, all it is, is just a reflection of human nature.

Yes.

'Cause all it is is just a form of communication. So yeah, inherently this is why WorldStarFights get millions of views. Negative bullshit gets tons of attention is because if someone feels bad inside, they— I mean, I can speak for myself, like when I'm in a bad place, like the negative stuff is, you know, you— I don't know, there's just something like attractive about it where you want you you know, you want to see that stuff or, you know, you seek out just like kind of like the fuckery.

Right.

But when, when you're on your, when you're on your path, like I try to cut all that stuff out. Like anything that doesn't serve me, I try not to give it my attention because focus isn't about adding or concentrating on something. It's about deleting everything except the thing.

Right.

So it's not, you know, and I've, I've heard that before where, you know, focus is basically, yeah, it's just the absence of other things. So yeah, put, I would just encourage everybody, put out content, make yourself, you know, start working towards that ideal version and don't worry about what people think because the people that, that are going to think you're a douchebag are going to think you're fully yourself. The thing that, that they probably want to see is your downfall.

Yeah.

That's the thing that's gonna get their attention is seeing like someone that had money lose it all. Or, you know, like when a, a, uh, you know, a music person goes to jail or gets beat up or gets robbed, like that's the thing that they get excited about. So yeah, you don't want to please them because all they want to see is, is bad things for other people.

Right.

Because they're not happy with themselves.

Absolutely. And I think that, dude, I mean, for me, my biggest focus— and this is all stemmed from this like transformation I've made that has started, I swear to God, with my fitness and taking care of my health and things like that, and also finding my vision— the biggest thing that stemmed for me is exactly what you said: weeding out negativity, getting rid of bullshit. And since I've been able to do that and become extremely conscious of it, like, bro, my life and just the way I vibrate at, you know, is just so much better. Where like, I— it's so easy for me now to see something negative, acknowledge it's there, and just like don't feed anything into it. Like, I just like don't even— like, I'll get like some like negative like comment or something on my shit, and I just like, oh, like that's how this person felt. Done. Not even— like, it doesn't even like get at me, anything like that. Like, I just know that I am promoting such a force of like goodness that shit doesn't even fucking matter. And I do want to go back to your point also about people who are like so worried about posting and things like that. That's your own ego getting in the way of things.

Yeah.

Once you figure out your vision of why you're doing something, then all that shit doesn't fucking matter because you know of the reason behind why you're doing all of this. And if it is like a good and pure intent, then you won't have any feelings of, of like shame or regret, anything like that. You know, it's putting yourself out there. It's being yourself.

Yeah. You can't, you can't please everybody. And if you try to please everybody, you're going to, it's just bland and vanilla. And the people that do fuck with you, they're, they're not going to be that enthusiastic about it. You're just, you know, I think it's better to say, hey, okay, what am I really trying to do? Like, like for me, like the people I want to help are people that have a high ambition and drive in themselves and they just haven't found the right vehicle. You know, as far as like, like with the wholesale stuff and even with the fitness stuff, like the person that was me when I was out of shape and felt trapped like that, those type of people are my, my target audience and people that, you know, are somewhere along that path. So I just say like, look, for the people that don't want that, it's okay because it's not, it's not meant for them anyways. And if I try to please those people, I'm going to get off of my path. So I'm just going to stay in my lane and do my thing. And there's going to be a certain percentage of people that see what I'm doing that are going to be attracted to it. And you know, it's better to be polarizing than try to just please everybody. I agree.

I think so many of my problems in life came from me trying to please everybody. The reason I was like, I had such a problem with going out and drinking is because I wanted to be the life of the party and I wanted to, you know, make sure other people were having fun and things like that. Whereas that wasn't serving me. Or like so many of the different things I've talked about, it— I created problems for myself trying to please everybody instead of just focusing on what is my path and who is that comes along with that. We fuck with— we ride with those guys and everybody else, whatever, it doesn't matter. I don't need to please everybody, honestly. I, I have my shit. And I know that with the message I deliver, that at least 50% of people are gonna be like, fuck that dude, because I'm not for everybody, dude.

Right.

And that's fine, because I have— I've seen people, and I believe that naturally everybody comes out and they are beautiful, but so many people have been tainted by fucking negativity and impure shit, and it's like, I don't rock with that, so I don't need you, right? I'm looking for the people who ride on my fucking wavelength, who are about what I'm about, and That's a fucking gang. Like, we love that.

Absolutely. And then the people, the people that are left over whenever, when all the smoke clears, that they're really about it and you're really in alignment, and that's like your tribe.

Exactly. I want my fucking dogs. I don't need some people who are just like, you know, like, none of, none of fake shit, you know? Like, I want people who really connect with it. So I, I love you say that, man. And, um, so dude, we got to talk about Novations.

Absolutely.

So People who watch me, I pretty much only talk about wholesaling. So they know, okay, wholesaling, so we're finding a discounted property, we're putting it under contract, and then we're selling it to an end buyer. That's pretty much the process, right? So what you do is a little bit differently. Would you please explain to me, as if I was somebody who'd never heard about it, what is the difference between wholesaling and novations?

Okay, so the main difference between wholesaling and novations is One, um, you can list your properties on the MLS and sell to retail buyers while it's in escrow. Okay, so essentially the, the MLS becomes your dispo house, and you can hire a local realtor. You can accept conventional financing, FHA, VA loans, and especially in the current climate, you know, cash buyers, they're buying much deeper if they're buying at all. Um, you know, hedge funds left the building for a while. They're slowly coming back in certain areas.

Thank God.

But there's, you know, there's, there's been a lot of major changes. But, uh, one thing that will never change is there will always be people looking for a place to live.

Yes.

And so this opens up, um, many properties that would have been difficult or impossible to monetize wholesale-wise and basically with the proper paperwork is step one. But the more, even more important thing is being able to know basically how to present it to the seller in agreeable way where you can show what value you're bringing to the table.

So first, can you just kind of explain, so like at a very baseline level, what is the difference between like a wholesale transaction and an Ovation contract? Or I'm sorry, like an Ovation transaction?

Okay, so a, you know, wholesale transaction, normally you're getting the property under contract. And then while it's in escrow, you're selling to either a cash buyer or an institution. Yes. And many times, you know, the seller is unaware of it. A lot of wholesalers, not all, but a lot of them will either be vague about it, or they'll blatantly lie and say they are the buyer. And then they'll just do what happens behind the scenes. And as long as the transaction happens, maybe the seller doesn't necessarily care, but if things go south, you know what I mean, it can, uh, it can cause harm, harm to the seller.

Absolutely.

And, uh, with a novation, you know, if you pitch it the proper way, they understand, one, that you're going to be working with a third party, um, and two, you know, there's going to be some moving parts involved. There's going to be showings. They basically, they're riding with you if you can get them confident in your competence and your company and what you're doing, they understand that you can bring more value to the transaction. And, you know, you, you can get bigger margins, and you can also take deals that wouldn't work for a cash buyer. Like, for example, this house, right? We could completely novate this house. This beautiful house. It would be very difficult to sell a house like this to cash buyer unless there was just like—

because there's no, there's no value-add opportunity.

There's no value-add.

Right? You're so— and let's think about the base of that as well. Of now, we know value-add is the real estate term, right? They can come in and fix up a property, but also you're not adding any value to the fucking seller.

Exactly, right? Exactly. Yeah, you're basically just getting it at a discount and then selling it again at a discount.

So with wholesaling, you are, you are reaching out to the seller, you're saying, hey, like, I want to buy your property, um, let's get under contract. And then meanwhile, in between, when you have that contract signed and the close of escrow, you're marketing it to other people, and then you're eventually selling that contract. With the novation, you are letting the seller know up front, hey, I'm gonna be— I'm gonna help you find a buyer. I'm going to be working with third parties on finding an investor who's better suited for this property, or a buyer who's better suited for this property.

Yeah, yeah, I'm letting them know. And there's a lot of stuff that happens in between that, right? But in the, in the very end, when I'm pitching the— I call it the concierge service— when I'm pitching that, I'm basically letting them know, look, of, you know, if you're, you know, if your property fits the criteria, you know, we work with other people— realtors, investors, cash buyers, institutions. It may even be someone that plans on living there. We can do all the legwork and we make everything completely easy, right? And you can just sit back and collect the check. Because even a traditional listing for a seller, there's a lot of things involved. Yes, they've got to vet and hire a realtor. The realtor may or may not be any good at all. Um, you know, they have to fix up the property. They're going to do a lot more showings because the realtor has an ulterior motive. Not, you know, it's nothing wrong, but the nature of their business is they need new clients all the time. So they're going to bring a lot more people through. They're going to have open houses where the realtor's marketing for themselves, whereas opposed to like an Ovation, you know, it's a different process. It's a more streamlined and a tighter process, and the seller It's a hands-off experience for them.

So it sounds to me like essentially you are leveraging your real estate experience to find a buyer who's going to be serious about buying this property, and you're opening up to all channels, meaning you're looking for the retail buyer who's gonna, who's gonna live in the property, but you also are just in the same way a wholesaler would, you're reaching out to the investors, the cash buyers, and the hedge funds, the institutions who may also be interested in that property.

Absolutely.

And because you're fishing from a bigger pool, you're typically able to get a better price.

Absolutely. Yeah, it opens it up to everybody. Yeah, every deal we will initially try to wholesale it. Like, as we're getting our ducks in a row, looking, looking for realtors that, you know, trying to find the best agent, you know, we're sending it off Investor Lift, we're sending it off Facebook groups, cash buyers list, we're skip tracing. So we hit it from every angle. And yeah, if we can find a cash buyer off market first, and probably about a third of our deals, we will wholesale. Yeah, but we set every single one up as a novation because one, it sets up the, the third-party expectation.

Yes.

So there's no, um, muddy of the waters. Like, they understand there's going to be people that are going to be coming through. They understand there's a third party involved. So I don't have to say this is my contractor, this is my partner and there's all these random people showing up because sellers, you know, sellers do push back on that.

Oh yeah.

If, you know, if you don't position it correctly, you know, they don't want to do a bunch of showings. But yeah, we'll try to sell it off market if we can do it quick and easy that way and we're not taking too big of a hit. Absolutely. There's like a value in the, you know, the velocity of money. Yeah. Having deals move quick, especially in today's market.

Oh yeah.

Um, but yeah, and if that doesn't pan out or we feel there's like a significant better opportunity on the MLS, normally within— we try to have it within a week of when we sign it to have it active on the MLS.

Yeah.

So right when we get it under contract, you know, we have one person that's dealing with the realtor end, and then we have another person that's looking off market and exploring those channels.

Gotcha. So it seems like this solves Probably one of the biggest questions I get from people who are, you know, looking into wholesaling and not sure they want to do it. One of the most common questions I get asked is, well, how do I find the buyers? Right. And this takes care of that because you are putting your property out there on the surface where all the buyers are looking.

I mean, absolutely, it's the best buyers list ever.

Yeah.

And you're dealing too with, you know, retail buyers, and there are investor buyers, but these investor buyers, a lot of them, you know, they're mom-and-pop landlords. It's the small business owner that's looking to build a rental portfolio and passive income. They may not be on a normal buyer's list. They may not have bought any properties before, right? They, you know, they might— may not be a savvy big landlord. So you're opening it up to, to, uh, less sophisticated investors that maybe are willing to pay a premium because they don't have access to these off-market deals with the wholesalers. Yeah, they've got their buddy that's a realtor that's checking the MLS for stuff that hits their criteria And a lot of times too, they may not be paying cash. They may be buying it with a loan.

And because of the way the paperwork is set up, and I believe— correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that because of the way the paperwork's set up, it does make the house— so one kind of difference I want to talk about is in wholesaling, the way that most wholesale contracts are set up, you can only sell that to, or you can only assign it to somebody who's going to be paying cash or hard money.

Yes.

Whereas the way the Novation paperwork is set up, it opens up the door for FHA loans and other traditional forms of financing?

Absolutely. You can accept any type of loan financing because you have exited the transaction before it actually closes. So there is no assignment. You actually get paid through a notice of interest where it, you know, can show up as a maintenance fee, um, you know, a marketing repair fee where, you know, the, uh, the lenders Many of them don't pay assignment fees, but they always pay off liens because it's necessary to close the transaction. So you're just a little blip on the settlement statement.

Gotcha. Interesting. So, um, if somebody was looking— because here's one of the beautiful things about wholesaling, one of the most attractive reasons why people get into wholesaling is because there's, you know, really low barriers to entry, right? Would you believe that a beginner with no real estate experience not, you know, no credit, no, not a lot of cash would be able to start doing these novation deals?

So a novation deal is no more difficult or complicated than a wholesale deal.

Yeah.

So these same issues they will have wholesaling, um, and arguably it's easier, especially if you have a local agent working for you, because they're, you know, one of the hardest things when you're brand new is dealing with cash buyers because many of them are sharks. And especially if you're in Facebook groups, you're dealing with wholesalers pretending to be cash buyers, you're dealing with, you know, especially the cash buyers, they get a whiff if you know what's going on or not. They know what time it is. And they'll play the craziest of games with you, jerk you around, you know, repairs, changing prices, like all the crazy stuff. Now, if you're dealing with a realtor, One, you know, especially a local realtor that sold in that market, they have their network of people that like, trust, and respect them. You're leveraging their credibility. Yeah, so you're behind the scenes, you've exited the picture. Now the realtor's just communicating with you and you're not communicating directly with these people. So that also gives you a higher capacity to be working more deals because most wholesalers, they spend all their time, especially brand new, trying to get a property under contract. And once it's under contract A lot of them stop trying to acquire new properties because they got to sell this thing so they can actually make money on it.

It creates the yo-yo.

It's like, hey, it's great you have all these properties under contract, but you don't get paid until these things are sold and closed. And there's a lot of things that happen in between that, especially in today's market. So yeah, I mean, one important thing is, is with the novations, you really have to stay within within the lane, there's less room for deviation on the way that you pitch it. I've heard a couple different ways that people have pitched it, and most of them only really work for laydowns. So being able to present it properly and do it in a way that you build tension and then closing with action and delivering the perfect solution, that's super crucial. And then also, you know, understanding you have to have a title company that that actually actively does these deals.

Right.

Many title companies, you know, you can bring it up, "Oh yeah, we can do that, we can do that," and then 5 days before closing, "Oh, we got word back from our underwriter, we actually can't do that," and then it's a complete shit show at that point. Gotcha.

But you actually, you'll show people, right, the correct way on how to do this and how to eliminate any of these things that can be tough, like the paperwork and finding the title companies, right?

Absolutely.

So somebody wanted to learn how to do these novation deals, what would be the best way for them to seek you out for you to show them how to do it?

Yeah. So I have a complete course that's acquisition-focused, but it also has all the tools and resources on how to sell the deals.

Yeah.

I actually have another course that I'm going to be working on that shows more insight into the back end where how, how I talk to the realtors to find the best realtors and have them excited to work with you.

Yeah.

Because the realtors too, that's it. That's kind of like the cash buyers. They're more sophisticated. They're sharks, a lot of them, especially the good ones. You have to position yourself correctly with them to make sure that your interests align.

Right.

But yeah, workwithwonders.com is where they can check out my course. Um, definitely, you know, if you follow me on Instagram, honestly, you can get a ton of free game and I will post, like, I have calls right on there now that are like front to back where you can see, I mean, the beauty of what I do is, uh, it's a repeatable process.

Mm-hmm.

And And people that watch me all the time and watch my course, they're like, whoa, your course is like, literally you say the same stuff that you say on the live. It's like, yeah, duh, like it works. And you don't have to, you know, I think a lot of people that are good closers, a lot of it's based on their personality and they have all these fancy things that they say all the time, but it's very difficult to duplicate it in someone else. And that's one thing that, you know, my previous sales job, a gentleman, his name was Don Burkhardt. And he built this massive business where he's doing several million dollars a year and he was taking people that had no sales experience.

Is this the, uh, is this Kirby?

This is Kirby, yeah.

Okay.

Yeah, he was taking people with no sales experience straight off the city bus, a lot of them, and teaching them how to be killer salesmen. That's where I cut my teeth.

Yeah.

And he was very big on having a repeatable process. And in the beginning I tried to put all my little fancy spins on it, you know what I mean? He's like, look, you know, you have some natural talent and what you do works, but you'll never get rich being like that. He said you need something that you can teach that is repeatable, that is simple, and you need to find that, that fine point of something that's sophisticated enough to work but simple enough to be easily duplicated, because otherwise you're just going to go around being this fancy salesman for the rest of your life and, you know, you can make a decent living, but you're never going to be on the level that you can be if you, you know, if you scale and build something.

Absolutely. Now, and I just want to clarify this repeatable process that you are using to lock up these Novation deals and get paid is all available in that course.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

Now, quick little disclaimer for you guys is I've taken this course and my team has all taken this course and we are currently using the exact information in there to lock up Novation deals every single month all across the country, man.

So I love it.

So I know, I know for a fact that what he's teaching is, is an excellent thing, and, um, I'm utilizing it to make a bunch of money. So thank you for putting out such an amazing product.

Awesome, brother. Dude, it's my pleasure, man. And dude, you've— your vibe attracts your tribe. Like, you— your guys are killers. Like, I love to see what you're doing, and you're so young, man, and just crushing it. Like, I think I think that's like an inspiration to show other people like what is possible.

Well, that's, I mean, that's another, you know, I, I feel like, um, there's this disconnect of like, like, um, what, what, what we teach kids to do. And it's like, okay, hey, go to college. And then afterwards, uh, go get a job and right. Go down that path. Whereas that's what the path I was headed on. Right. I went to school, I was about to go start working the 9 to 5 and by an incredible stroke of luck, I— that job got taken away from me. The pandemic happened. Notice that I say that it was lucky that the pandemic happened to me. Just so you know, I reframe everything like that. I will find the good. I will never waste a good tragedy. I'm gonna find the good in everything that possibly happens. And look, it led me to wholesaling, which has now led me to all these different avenues of real estate investing, whether it is creative finance or renovations or wholesaling, whatever it may be, right? I have figured out how to make deals happen in real estate and, you know, how to get paid in the middle of them. So, um, there is— I, that's what I want to show people is like, dude, I'm 24 years old, I'm gonna be 25 in February. By the time I'm 30, like, I'm gonna have 5 more years of doing shit. Like, you can get started on this. You do not need to be like you— like, there's people who think like, oh, how's anybody gonna sell me their house? I'm, I'm I'm 18 years old. It's like, bro, you're asking the wrong questions, man. Who gives a shit? You're on the phone, bro. They don't know you're 18.

Look at Jacob Blank, man.

Exactly. I love it. He's an excellent example. If you guys, if you guys haven't seen @JacobBlank, um, he's another wholesaler out of Arizona who's absolutely crushing it. But dude, these things are possible. It's real.

Yeah, age is irrelevant. It's just, will you take, will you take the steps and have the discipline? Because it's a clearly laid out path where if you do these things consistently and continue to skill up, success is inevitable.

Yes.

People— most people just underestimate the amount of activity that's actually needed to generate the results. You've heard the expression, you know, lazy people do a little bit of work and, you know, expect the results. Or what? Oh man, I screwed that up. Lazy people do a little bit of work in a, you know, wonder why they don't have everything they want. And then, you know, champions or hardworking people do everything possible and then they still feel like they're not doing enough.

Exactly.

So yeah, it's just, you know, if you're grinding and it's not happening yet, keep going because stopping or slowing down is certainly not going to get you to the result faster.

Yes. You know, Rich, you said a lot of amazing things and I loved it. It's so funny because like Like seeing other people where like you are saying things that are things that I'm always thinking and like you've never said these things to me before, but we're just like think the exact same way about it. I'm like, dude, find clarity in your vision. And then from there you just figure out what do you need to do? You're on a path and like that path is fucking clear. Like, you know what you need to do as soon as you have figured out your vision, right? Then everything else just falls into place and it's just a matter of doing the things you need to do. You might not feel like doing them all the time. That's where the discipline comes in, of you do it no matter what because you know of what you're— what it is you're after.

Yeah, because the pain of getting out of alignment is greater than the pain of the discipline.

So here's the way I like to think about pain. It's kind of like a real estate deal. You can have pain now, and that's your cash offer, and that's gonna be a lot less. Or you can seller finance your pain over the next 30 years and it's going to be increments, but it's going to be a lot more over time. What would you rather? Take the fucking cash offer now, right? Get the pain out of the way and go get it done. I like that because I don't want to fucking pay— be paying interest on my fucking— on my pain. Make the sacrifice now, get it out of the way.

Yeah, pain's unavoidable, and if you try to avoid pain, you're gonna have another pain waiting for you. The pain of regret. The pain of unrealized talent, unrealized potential. Man, I wish when I was 24 I had this in my mind, but you know, like, you know, we all go through our own path for our own reasons. So I always tell someone, whether you're 18 or whether you're 49, 60 years old, there is never too late because the right thing is just the right thing. It's not age-related.

Absolutely.

And that's why there's people like Jacob Blank that are, you know, super young and already making millions of dollars. And then there's people that are in their 60s and 70s that have gone through life and they're still working a job that they hate. They're not financially free. They don't live where they want to live. They don't travel. They don't do any of those things. But I think the main thing is having that vision because then everything else goes around it. Because if you don't have the vision, you're just blowing in the wind.

Yep.

And you're just gonna— whatever opportunities around you, that's what you have. You're, you're looking for distractions, you're looking for Netflix, for drunk on the weekends, looking for all these things to just get temporary relief.

It's filling the void of not having vision. Absolutely. That's what all that shit is, dude. It's been amazing. Thank you so much, guys. If you start to take— number one, take a look in yourself, figure out what it is you're— what is your vision, develop the path. And if you see along that path is, hey, I might want to learn more about this, you need go check out @NovationKing on Instagram, guys. There's so much value on there, like you said, absolutely for free. Go ahead and check them out. Rich, thank you so much for coming on. This has been episode 9 of The Rebellion. If you haven't already, please subscribe on YouTube. If you're listening on Spotify or Apple Music, I believe— I mean, I know it's on a bunch of other places, but if you're on there, what the fuck are you doing? Probably use Spotify, Apple Music. Go ahead rate the show, follow, click the little fucking doorbell or whatever it is, you know, leave a comment. I really appreciate it. It helps me out. And share this with a friend who might be able to use it. You know, if you have somebody who might be interested in wholesaling, show them this, that there are other little offshoots like Novations. And somebody who maybe is scared to start posting on social media, or maybe somebody who is scared to start their fitness journey, Anybody who you think it could help from this, make sure you go ahead and share it with them. Thank you guys so much for listening, and we'll see you next time.