The Science Of Wellbeing For Optimizing Personal & Planetary Health with Parneet Pal

How do we democratize well-being? Well, I think it starts with self-awareness and awareness of the others and to notice these connections between our well-being and the health of people globally. My actions right now are having a huge influence on somebody on some island very far away who is bearing the brunt of what we're seeing with climate change in terms of, you know, rising sea levels or wildfires, maybe. What does it take to do the impossible? What does it take to level up your game like never before?

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Breakthroughs.

Our mission is to decode the neurobiology of flow and cognitive peak performance. Access the minds of maverick scientists, groundbreaking innovators, and world-leading experts to understand what it takes to achieve ultimate human performance so you can feel your best, perform your best, and accomplish your boldest goals. I'm your host, Ryan Dorris, and together with bestselling author Steven Kotler, I present to you Flow Research Collective Radio.

So Parnit, welcome to our show. This is where we interview amazing individuals in our community, in the wider FRC network, and we've been wanting to get on a call with you for some time. How are you doing?

I'm doing really well, Amina, and really looking forward to this conversation.

Awesome. Well, as I was going through your bio, and that's something that's available for others to read in detail, the one thing really struck out to me as a good place to start. And I think that is, what was it like to get into medical school at 17 and have that shape really your thinking around, you know, health and the body and how we're supposed to perform at such a, such a young age? If we could start there and you can take us through a few milestones that have brought you to where you are today?

Sure. So I grew up in India. And like every other Indian girl who did well in school, I was told that I would be a physician when I grew up. So I think— and that was, you know, the dream that my parents had. And so I basically took it for granted. I never questioned that decision. I loved biology in school and I was a straight-A student. So You know, I was— it came easily to me. And in India, you do have the option, you have the option to go to medical school straight after high school, which is what I did. So that's how I ended up in medical school at the age of 17. And it was really eye-opening for me, and getting to understand the beauty and the magnificence and the wisdom of our biology and physiology, which I absolutely fell in love with. And am to this day. And but also it was a bit of a shock to me, you know, when we went into our clinical rotations and realizing what the actual practice of medicine entails, which was very different from sort of a very rosy-colored view I had of it very naively prior to going into it. But and then, you know, after I graduated from medical school at the age of 21, I was really thinking about, you know, how did I want to apply this knowledge. And I've always been a bit of an explorer and adventurer. And I still have that kind of risk-taking streak in me, which I think is conducive to flow in some ways, very curious. And I wanted to explore the world. And I come from a very humble background, you know, my parents and my family supported me in all the ways that they could, but I sort of had to make my way through the world and figure out what I wanted to do. And and fend for myself. And that journey basically brought me to North America, where I ended up doing my medical residency. I was really lucky to get into amazing schools at Columbia and at Harvard. And then, of course, by the end of medical residency, quickly realized that clinical practice was not making me happy. This is not how I wanted to apply what I was learning. And I was really drawn towards prevention. And so I think all of that came together. Even back then, I think the seeds of what is now my, you know, massively transformative purpose, if you will, or my mission, it has stayed pretty consistent for more than a decade now, which is to contribute to building a compassionate society where health is the default. And this you know, what this mission looks like has evolved over the years. And for me, you know, in this present day, it looks like the intersection of health and leadership and climate and sustainability. And we can get into what all that means. But yeah, so for me, you know, the first part, which was how can we make health the default, was really guided when I looked at the data. So when you look at the burden of disease globally, not just in North America, most of our healthcare dollars go towards treating lifestyle-related chronic diseases. And the data very clearly show that 80-90% of these diseases are completely preventable when you pay attention to your lifestyle, you know, what you eat, how you move, how you sleep, how you manage your stress and emotions. So for me, when I saw that piece of data, I was shocked that, you know, the emphasis in medical school, in medicine, in our healthcare system is always on treating people after they fall sick. Very little attention is paid to prevention. And that's where I wanted to focus on because I think, you know, growing up in India, I also come with a very holistic and integrated view of what health looks like. So that's one piece. But then, you know, as I started diving into what what helping people stay well might look like. And that journey took me through designing wellbeing programs for executive health, for wellness spa, and then ultimately in the workplace and scaling those wellbeing programs. I realized that individual responsibility is important, of course, and we need— everybody needs to take care of their health and human performance. This is something that, of course, I focus on in my work a lot. But systems really matter. And if we are to make change on the kind of global scale that we want to see and make health the default, we have to make health and well-being become easy for people. And this then reflects on the kinds of leadership that we have in healthcare systems, in government and policymaking, you know, the setup, the physical environment around us, you know, does that— is that really conducive to health and well-being? So, so So that's the health being the default part of the mission. And my role in this is, yes, I want to scale those well-being programs in the workplace, but I also want to influence leadership at the highest levels that are making these decisions and setting these systems up. But then the compassionate part, I think, is equally important because it's impossible for me to be well if the people around me, and by extension, if the planet is suffering. And I think the pandemic has very beautifully highlighted this point. And so when we look at, you know, so what, like, you know, what does compassion have to do with it? Well, compassion is all about noticing the suffering, not just in yourself, but in others, and then being motivated to take action to do something about it, to change it. And the good news about compassion is that it's a trainable skill in the brain, you know, there are things that you can do to train your compassion networks. And so I think for me, that is my ideal vision of the world that we want to live in, is a compassionate one where health is a default, where then we can show up and have those moments of flow and be our best and perform our best and take care of each other.

I love that you fell back on compassion first and not some kind of fitness protocol to up your performance or something for well-being. So it's a very important aspect to this. And you're looking at— you speak You've spoken about the individual level because obviously you've been a physician before, but then there's also this grand scale that you are looking at and addressing, especially in a lot of talks. You do a lot of speaker engagements globally. So I'd love to know your opinion on, you know, how we address well-being for the other 90%. You know, this, this tends to be very much a topic that sits frankly in the 1%, and it's very much an access and distribution issue. So when you talk about this kind of larger-scale well-being, and I know you want to influence leaders, how do you frame that? How do we— how do you frame the democratization of well-being?

So I think it depends on the audience. So you have to, you have to understand who's in the crowd and what their motivations might be. For a lot of people, I found that if you can personalize the outcome, it works really well. So one example that I'll give you is, and this is also sort of something that I want the FRC community to think more about and to ask themselves, is, you know, the food on your plate. 2 to 3 times a day, each individual on the planet has the power to influence the well-being of everyone globally. Through the choices that they make with the food on their plate. So I want us to start becoming aware of and asking ourselves, what's on my plate? Where did it come from? What is the carbon footprint of the food? What did it take? Who were the, who were the people, people that touch that food? So all the way from the farmer that grew the food to the storage folks, to the retailers, to the manufacturers, to the cook in whatever kitchen it was cooked in before it landed on your plate. And then, so that's one piece, which is so what is the carbon footprint of that food? And then once I eat, once I consume this food, how does it impact my own energy? So my ability to— the energy that I have to show up for whatever work that I'm doing in the world and the way that I might be showing up as a leader, or, you know, whatever change, whatever my MTP might be in the world. How does— but how does it affect my relationships and the way that I interact with other people. But then what is the impact on the planet? And a great way to sort of— and that can seem like a very lofty thing to think about. But if you just ask yourself this question, if all the almost 8 billion people on the planet today were to eat the way that I'm eating, and then, you know, in a few years' time, by 2050, you know, the 10 billion or so people, if they were to eat what I'm eating in a day, would we even have a planet that we could survive on? Or what would— how would that impact, you know, the weather patterns in many different parts of the world? So again, that's just one example. But I think a very interesting way to start investigating this relationship of, of how do we democratize well-being? Well, I think it starts with self-awareness and awareness of the others. And to notice these connections between our well-being and the health of people globally. So my actions right now are having a huge influence on somebody on some island very far away who is bearing the brunt of what we're seeing with climate change in terms of rising sea levels or wildfires, maybe.

Yeah, I love, I love the stress of that importance on those who can almost afford, if I can use that word, afford a high level of self-awareness and consciousness on your choices and to have the choice. I think that's another thing. You know, I live here in central Vietnam and live in sort of farmer communities. And sometimes that choice isn't available, yet what is available in terms of subsistence farming and just sort of small community living is in itself more sustainable, right? Yet that's shifting. It's shifting because now the choices of buying— I mean, just to really bring it down to the microscopic level, to shampoo hair, you have to go buy, you know, one-use sachets, or to feed your kids, you have to rely on sort of fast food and these types of things, and the choice is not really available anymore. So choices are shifting. And yeah, I'd love to, I'd love to understand, as you're— because you probably deal with a lot of leaders in this space, and Do you have a barometer on their thinking around how they influence communities that have less choice, for instance, for the needle moving on our planetary health?

I don't have good news on that front, unfortunately. And again, this is just my lens. But also, I think it's, you know, if you look at the news and if you look at how we're tracking on the Paris Agreement, on our goals for keeping global warming to 1.5 degrees centigrade, it's not looking good. So despite, you know, all the targets that were set at COP26 last year, if you look at the, you know, since then, since all the pledges and the commitments were made by governments and by business leaders globally, and you see so many of these net zero declarations and commitments, unfortunately, a lot of it is just sort of more greenwashing and very little action when it when it comes to actually reducing carbon emissions. And so, yeah, so I think there's a whole— but, you know, on the positive side, I think there's a huge number of youth and climate activists and NGOs and a small chunk of really progressive companies and businesses who have taken this on as part of their mission. So they are truly integrating They're setting targets. And I mean, talk about really having really clear goals. They're setting those really clear goals and they're following through on their actions and they're making sure that they're reducing emissions, not just what are called the Scope 1 and Scope 2, which is sort of what are directly relevant to the business, but Scope 3, which is the emissions that are part of the supply chain of whatever the company might be involved in. And usually those are the bulk of the emissions that a company or business is responsible for. And it's, you know, and it's usually sort of swept under the rug and not taken care of. So how is leadership doing? Not well. And I think we need to take a page from all of the brilliant youth who can sense that need for urgency. You know, this is the future that we are sort of creating for them. And I think they feel that anxiety, and that's why I think they are so motivated and they're taking a lot of good actions. But yeah, I think we have a long way to go. Yeah.

Yeah. Well, we need you to link arms with more of the changemakers out there, which also sounds like that's part of your mission. And, you know, you're— you mentioned compassion. So do you tie in compassion to your activism? Like, how does— how does that all work?

Yes, it's, it's a huge part. So I think for me personally, compassion has been the saving grace for my well-being. I'm very particular about my physical health, you know, thanks to the work that I've done and what I know. I'm very interested in living a long, healthy life. So not just improving my lifespan, but my healthspan. And I'm really interested in all the conversations in science around longevity. So I do all of those things on a physical basis. But I think, like, like everyone else, when I hit up against the limits of my stress and my overwhelm, and I've experienced burnout in my life more than once, I have— and not just that, but I think also some very difficult challenges in my personal life with illness in my family that I've had to navigate for many, many years. It's my compassion practice that has saved the day for me. So that for me looks like a consistent meditation practice every single morning as part of my morning routine, and strengthening my capacity for compassion, both self-compassion, so just being kind to myself on the days that things don't go the way that I planned, or when I screw up, or, you know, when I don't show up as my best, but also compassion for others and recognizing this shared common humanity and that we're all fallible and we all make mistakes. And I think that capacity for compassion allows us to then build a little more trust and have the ability to collaborate with others in a more meaningful way. So I think I was rambling a little bit there, but I don't know if I answered your question.

No, you definitely answered it, and I almost want to turn up the dial on, you know, I can sense also that there is urgency in what you're talking about when it comes to compassion, that I can tell it's not a nice-to-have, like it's something that you absolutely need to, you know, embody and cultivate in your personal life. But can you tie that to the, like, the necessity of compassion for leaders that are in this space of making change towards our personal and planetary health? Like, why is it so important to embody it? It's not just like a nice-to-have once-in-a-while thing or a retreat that you go on and learn some tips here and there. Why is it so important?

So when you look at the research behind the science of compassion and the effect that it has on the personal level, yes, it's going to help you stay well. It's going to boost your motivation. So the benefits of self-compassion are many, including boosting your personal motivation. You're more likely to stick to a health and well-being program, for example. It strengthens strengthens the quality of your relationships. And then when we're compassionate to others, it actually stimulates our parasympathetic nervous system. So it's one of the best ways to decrease your stress in, in any given moment, to deal with that overwhelm and burnout. So it's one of the best ways to increase your resilience. And then, but on an organizational scale, the benefits of compassion are many as well. So when we look at organizations who build cultures where where teams are encouraged to engage in what's called companionate love, which are those micro moments of love where you take a second to ask how the other person is doing or bring a cup of tea for them, or just, you know, if they make a mistake, just saying, it's okay, I have your back. Those are the cultures that have been shown to be the most innovative. Those are the ones that have the least turnover. Those are the ones where they have the highest levels of customer service, both internally and externally. Externally, those are the ones that have that high level of psychological safety. You know, everybody talks about psychological safety, it's a huge buzzword. But when you look at the, you know, how do you, how do you build those cultures of psychological safety, you know, they usually come down to two things. One is the ability to really actively listen to others. And the second is to, to be more empathic and compassionate. So, so I think for leaders, you know, that's the draw is if, if you can show them that, yes, you know, if you want to reach your targets for the next quarter, if you want to retain your best talent, if you want to build innovative teams, and have the kinds of culture that people are talking about for your reputation, then compassion is probably a very good strategy.

Thanks for describing that on the individual and also team level. Very, very important. It's also why we highlight, of course, the psychological basics that need to be in place before you can harness flow on any level. So I'd love to kind of shine some light on that. Like, how do you, how do you harness your flow? How do you get into those intense moments in life where you get a lot done and sparks of insight come to you?

So, I mean, it's very interesting, you know, I was reflecting on, you know, when was the first kind of very vivid moment of flow for me? It's a very precise moment. It was many years ago. I went skydiving for the first time, and it was a tandem jump, of course. And I had always wanted to go skydiving. But this particular place that I chose, it was a random Google search. And I ended up just outside of Barcelona, on the Empúria Brava coastline. And it— I had no idea, but I found out later that it's the largest drop zone in Europe. And all the instructors there were these world champion skydivers. And I had no knowledge of this before I went there. And so I—

this was your first ever dive?

My first dive. And really random, right? It's really random. You know, it was a beautiful, you know, the universe kind of came together for me and said, you know, we're gonna give you this gorgeous experience. So, so there I go. And talk about the preconditions for flow, right? Like, I was curious about it, I was passionate about it. But there was this— it was a completely novel environment. I'd never been to Spain before. You know, there was a lot of— obviously, it was a very high risk. You know, I had to sign way, but that I could die. And it was really unpredictable. So I go in there, and, you know, get introduced to the instructor. And then, you know, we go through the motions. And so I could feel, you know, my heart pounding, and then we go up there on the plane, 12,000 feet. And then that moment when we jumped, it was— I always, even back then, I remember after the dive, I described it, you know, the freefall was about 55 seconds. And then it was about 10 minutes of just, you know, after the chute opened, and we were just kind of flying around till we landed. So I described those 55 seconds as the longest and the shortest 55 seconds of my life. And then the neurochemical cocktail that I experienced for almost 4 weeks afterwards was again, something that I hadn't experienced and actually haven't experienced since. I think I was so calm. I was so content. I think I just had like this huge dose of serotonin, which, you know, after the initial dopamine and endorphins. And all seemed well with the world. And I felt I could do anything. And it was, you know, very creative and very productive moment of my life. Anyway, so that was, that was, you know, looking back, I was like, wow, that was a really good intense experience of flow. And of course, you know, I've done more diving since then. But I distinctly remember that first experience. So in my daily life, I actually honestly don't pursue flow. I don't start off the day saying, you know, today I'm going to be in flow. I never have. I've always found that flow is more of an emergent state that is more likely to happen if I stick to my fundamentals. So again, I always come to flow and peak performance through the lens of health and well-being. So I know that if I I do my morning routines of waking up at a particular— early in the morning, if I do my breath and meditation practice, if I do a little— I usually do a little bit of light movement, like a few yoga poses in the morning, just to get that early movement going. And then that really sets me up for doing my most creative work. So I always block off my mornings, and my dedicated time for doing my most challenging creative work. And then later on in the day, you know, I can do some of the more mundane activities. I usually do a workout, whether whether it's indoor rowing or, you know, any other form of exercise, usually in the middle of the day. That's when, you know, for me physiologically, that's my best time to work out. And then in the evening is when I set time for meetings or for learning or reading new things. And then I make sure that my, you know, my sleep is optimized. I'm very, very particular about getting high-quality 7 to 8 hours of sleep. As you know, to get good sleep, you know, it depends. Sleep is not just a matter of what you do right before going to bed, but it depends on your whole day. And so when I really try to work with my circadian rhythms and optimize those, you know, I pay attention to the food that I eat. I really nourish my body well. I'm on a pescatarian diet for the most part, and I do intermittent fasting, well, you know, time-restricted eating during the day. And then yes, I, I definitely make sure that I, uh, you I'm practicing gratitude and compassion, which is part of my meditation practice. So I think so. So all of these things, I think, really help me to experience more and more moments of flow. But I don't, you know, I think just like happiness, it's less about the pursuit and it's more about creating the conditions around it for those states to arise.

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Yeah, thank you for highlighting that, that you do not pursue flow, that you actually pursue these foundations on a day-to-day basis. And when those go off, you know that your propensity towards flow is going to wane a little. Um, but I do want to rewind back to that incredible experience that you had, this 55 seconds of the longest and the shortest period of your life. And you said 4 weeks after that, you experienced this incredible neurochemical cocktail or state of flow. So that begs the question, what did you do during that time? Like, what came out of that, that span, or any other span where you found yourself in these high-flow states? How do they shape you, or how did they shift things?

Yeah, so, um, so actually that it wasn't— the calm didn't come after 4 weeks, but for 4 weeks, it lasted for 4 weeks, which was pretty amazing. But I think, you know, in general, I think what many different periods of flow, or instances of flow in my life have allowed me to do, I think, would be to pursue reinvention. you know, my reinvention in many different ways, but also move closer and closer to doing the work that is most meaningful for me. So that would not have been possible if I had not optimized for flow, if you wish. But, but again, for me, it's about just optimizing my, my health. So, you know, so, so what that— what does that look like? Well, it's allowed me to do many things. It's allowed me to take— have the courage and take the to move from India to North America on my own without any help and support. It's allowed me to change my career from being a, from clinical practice as a physician to the business of health and well-being to now really focusing on my, what really brings me joy, which is education and speaking and communications and really doing that in that. And then again, sort of slowly moving you know, combining health and leadership and climate and sustainability, you know, it's allowed me to stand on huge stages. And, and there I very distinctly kind of, I can see myself moving through the flow cycle pretty distinctly, because I mean, for most, most days, you know, like, I take a flight, and then I reach a different time zone. And then I'm always, you know, cursing myself, why do I get myself into these situations? And, you know, I have all the butterflies and, you know, all the struggle that comes with making sure that I know what I'm going to say the next day. And then most, most times, not always, but most times, then I do, you know, through my breathing or meditation practice, just try to give myself that moment of release and say, okay, you know, I've done my best in preparation. And now let's just, you know, leave the rest to, to my preparation. And then, and then, you know, I love those moments when I'm on stage in front of lots of people. And it just flows. I lose track of myself, which is a good thing, and my sense of self, who I am and my identity and so on, and just sort of try to embody the message or the content that I'm— or what I'm trying to convey to the audience. And it's a beautiful feeling when I'm able to make that connection and articulate my ideas in a meaningful way. And then of course come back down and then go into recovery of some sort. So yeah, just, um, yeah, I hope those are— those highlight some of the things that flow has allowed me to do.

Yeah, I've actually— I wonder what you think about this— I've spoken to other people who can really find flow on stage, who experience lots of flow, and as you said, you know, it's a selfless experience, it's an egoless experience, and that it starts to become this two-way street where you can kind of almost feel or sense the audience and how they're riding with you in, in that delivery. So what have you sensed, like temperature check on what your audience is interested in around your topics? Like, where is really the passion or the, or the need or the gap that they want to step into in terms of a topic?

Again, it's, you know, again, it depends on the audience, because obviously a lot of the conferences, you know, self-select for a particular theme. But a couple of areas that I'm noticing a lot of interest is definitely around this connection between health and climate. You know, that's what I talk about a lot of the times. And, you know, to your point, I remember, you know, a conference that I was at recently, which was an intimate gathering, and there was this one person that I— in the crowd, and I distinctly remember, you know, I was speaking, and I could see this person just like kind of sit up in their seat and with a big smile on their face. And, you know, they were kind of moving to the rhythm of what I was saying, and I found myself kind of engaging with that person and making eye contact. And so it was, it was that beautiful moment of like, you know, just kind of forgetting where you are, but like really having that kind of energy exchange, which is so precious in those settings. So I think health and climate, I think the reason why people are interested in the connections between health and climate is because we are also noticing, and this is the other area of interest in audiences, is around burnout and stress. I think everyone has just, especially post-COVID, has experienced so much of that, that I think people are really hungry for solutions. And because I'm able to bring that into the conversation as well, I think people really sit up and take notice. But definitely I would say, you know, I think everyone is just tired and exhausted after the past couple of years. I think the level of awareness around climate and sustainability is rising, which is great. And I think people are also looking for, really craving that sense of meaning and fulfillment in the work that they do. So I think that, I think we're at a very juicy time actually. I think we're at a good moment and at an inflection point in our history. But I think if we play our cards right, if we work together, if we collaborate in the right ways, I think we do have an opportunity to really tip the scales up towards the kind of world that we want to live in.

Yes, very, very hopeful. And I want to tap your wisdom even further there, because you sit at that intersection and you're with a lot of these audiences and you're constantly getting feedback. But what are we missing in this kind of game of peak performance and well-being? What are most of us missing? And what would you give me or any of our audience as kind of like that, that letter, that letter of wisdom of pay attention to this. This is what really matters.

I would probably point to a couple of things. One is peak performance, and definitely health and well-being is not a hack. And so we need to just get away from that kind of mentality. And instead, get curious about what I mentioned in the beginning, which is get curious about the wisdom of our bodies and the awe-inspiring intelligence. I always get chills when I think about— and I'm a science geek, so I— when I think about the hundreds of thousands of chemical reactions that are happening seamlessly in all the cells of our bodies right now, even as we're having this conversation, that are making this conversation possible. What could be more beautiful? And so once you start to understand your physiology and the beauty of it, then how can you not take care of your physiology? How can you not tend to it in a different way? So I think that, you know, get curious about your biology, try to understand the systems, and it's a beautiful, complex system that actually also helps you to understand and the extended system, ecosystem that we're part of, right? So we are part of nature, we're not separate from it. So I think just bringing that kind of lens into peak performance and well-being is a good way to go. And, and when you do that, you start to notice that just like nature has its rhythms, our body has its rhythms. And so if I can consistently show up, you know, that's why those routines and sort of that the The need to put in that effort and energy into the routines is a requirement. There's just no getting away from it. So there are no shortcuts, but the results, the ROI on that investment is huge. It's massive. It's transformative. And I think the other thing that I would probably say is, you know, during flow, you know, one of the characteristics of flow is that you know, you lose that sense of yourself, right? That self, kind of self-transcendence. I would encourage folks to say, outside of my moments of flow, how can I be more deliberate about moving away from self-focus? So how can I, again, coming back to that whole notion of compassion, is how can I start to widen my perspective of what I want to do with the amount of energy that I have, this peak performance energy or this flow state that I'm creating, how can I widen my perspective on the goals that I want to reach so that it's not just feeding my personal goals, but how can I apply it through more of a service mindset and a concern for others? Yeah, I think that's probably the two things I would say.

That was a beautiful parachute landing, so to speak, on, on all the things that you've shared with us today. Is there, is there something that I have not asked you that you would love to share with our community?

I would just reiterate that, you know, I can't emphasize enough how important it is that no matter what industry we're in or the kind of jobs that we're doing, that we become aware of and educate ourselves on what's happening to our planet. So the climate, sustainability, what's happening to our biodiversity, and the, you know, get curious about it, read about it, get curious about, you know, you can start with the food on your plate, but then start to look at all different aspects of your lifestyle and the influence that that that, that, that is having on, on the health of the planet and on the health of people everywhere. And I think when, when we do that, I think the second thing that I want to point out is you will come up with a lot of difficult emotions. This is not an easy process. When you look at the data, it's easy to get overwhelmed. When you look and interact with people who are bearing the brunt of, you know, our actions, you know, the fortunate few who get to live in the, you know, the Western world and have the kinds of luxurious lives that we have, you will come up against sadness and grief and anger and disappointment and frustration. And so I think a very important skill for all of us to learn is to be able to lean into those moments of discomfort and be okay with that. And figure out, you know, there are many different strategies, and you can figure out how do I want to show up in this moment of discomfort? And do I want to just push it away and go back to whatever my escape route might be? Or can I just hang in there and really listen to the insight that this difficult emotion is giving me? Because of course, it's, you know, all of our emotions are equally important. So yeah, and again, for me, I think leaning into that discomfort is the starting point and the most beautiful platform for our compassion to strengthen.

Absolutely. That sounds like a very worthy, graceful struggle to, quote unquote, pursue. Thank you so much, Parnita. This has been a wonderful conversation.

Thank you so much, Amina.

Shared with the production team. Now, if you're listening to this, you probably have a long track record of success. However, you also have a craving you can't ignore. It's the deep desire to do more and to take things to an even higher level than before. And when it comes to your performance, you're by no means inconsistent. However, you may have hit a plateau. The traditional ways of breaking through and gaining new ground just aren't working. If you're starting to wonder if you actually have it in you to get to where you want to go, maybe you can feel it. You're in the middle of important stretch for your career. And the good news is there's a way to get at least 50% more out of what you're currently doing. You can gain the altitude needed to escape reactivity, to stay in the strategic zone, and transcend stagnation, all without compromising what's truly important to you. That's precisely what we're here to help you do at the Flow Research Collective. We've done it for thousands of top-tier performers. Reviews and praise for our tools, our protocols, and our ideas have come in from the likes of Elon Musk, Arianna Huffington, and Bill Clinton. So if you'd like to train with us, go to getmoreflow.com. What you'll learn is backed by research from Harvard, DARPA, and Deloitte. These are the same peak performance protocols we teach to Navy SEALs and executives in Google and Facebook's boardrooms. Just go to getmoreflow.com.

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