Transformative Technology, Flow & The Value of Going Deep With Meditation - Nichol Bradford | Flow Research Collective Radio

The other thing that the women do in the book is they share power, and they don't always get along. They don't always like each other, you know, but they have a kind of love and respect in the way that they communicate with one another that they're really able to make good decisions together and challenge one another into making those good decisions. And that's not something still today, if you think about, you know, all the media that you see, You probably can't think of a show or a movie where you have stable women, smart, stable women sharing power in order to accomplish great and grand goals.

Hey there, if you are a leader, a knowledge worker, or an entrepreneur and you want to take your professional success to the next level, while reclaiming time, space, and freedom within your personal life, then Zero to Dangerous may be a fit for you. Zero to Dangerous is our flagship peak performance training. You'll work one-on-one with our coaches. You'll go through our whole curriculum. You'll join a community of peak performers from all over the world.

This was like a really weird thing that happened is my workday started ending at 2. So then somewhere in Zero to Dangerous, there was this idea that I needed now an entirely new category of things to do just because I enjoy them, which is an entrepreneur for 23 years. It never occurred to me to make a list of things to do for the sheer pleasure of doing them because I had gotten all my work done. Like it never occurred to me to do that. It was really, really weird. I enforced the deadline. Like it had to be real. I had to create the output to really have the experience be valid. And I was watching my productivity go up and up and up and I was like, What do I do now? It's 2 o'clock. And it was just so weird. Like, when you have, you know, 20 or 30 people who have weird experiences like that and you can put them in a way that somebody can kind of scan through those, it allows somebody to self-identify and be like, oh God, that's really meaningful to me. 'Cause some person's going to be like a 40-year-old dad who's gonna go through Zero to Dangerous and make enough time to go see his kids play baseball. Or whatever. That's going to be somebody.

Go to getmoreflow.com, getmoreflow.com. Pop an application through, takes 30 seconds. We will be excited to speak with you to see whether it's a good fit. So that's getmoreflow.com.

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Our mission is to decode the neurobiology of flow and cognitive peak performance, access the minds of maverick scientists, groundbreaking innovators, and world-leading experts to understand what it takes to achieve ultimate human performance so you can feel your best, perform your best, and accomplish your boldest goals. I'm your host, Ryan Dorris, and together with bestselling author Steven Kotler, I present to you Flow Research Collective Radio. Hey there, Ryan Dorris here with the Flow Research Collective, and welcome to Flow Research Collective Radio. Today we're going to be talking with Nicole Bradford. Now, Nicole is the founder of Transformative Tech, which is a global ecosystem dedicated to educating, gathering, and activating wellbeing-focused tech founders, investors, and innovators. They have members across 72 countries and 450 cities and events across the world that occur frequently, to which myself and Steven have actually attended also. Now, prior to Transtech, Nicole served as senior interactive entertainment executive with responsibility for strategy, operations, and marketing for major brands like Activision Blizzard, Disney, and Vivendi. Highlights, which we're going to be talking about in today's episode, included operating World of Warcraft and all of Blizzard Entertainment's properties in China, as well as holding a key role on the Vivendi Games team responsible for the merger with Activision Blizzard. Nicole also speaks extensively on human transformation, transformative tech, the future of health, work, and human excellence, along with flourishing cities. And she's a lecturer at Stanford University with an MBA from the Wharton School of Business and has attended Singularity University's Global Solutions Program. Now finally, and it was really fun to talk with Nicole about this, she's also a novelist. And wrote a book, a novel called The Sisterhood, which is a work of transformative Afro-futuristic fiction. And outside of work, her two favorite activities are meditation, which we also talk a lot about in this episode, and combat sports. So you're going to have a blast listening to this. We talk about trans tech, what the most exciting trends are that are coming up. We talk about Nicole's meditation practice, the relationship between meditation and flow, and how she got into flow while writing her novel and what the intention was there. So with that, enjoy this episode. I'll catch you in there.

Nicole Bradford, welcome to Flow Research Collective Radio. It is great to have you here. I appreciate you taking the time.

Oh, thank you so much for having me. I love Flow Research.

My pleasure. My pleasure. I wanted to start a little while ago, which was with your MBA that you did in Wharton, I believe, around the turn of the century. And I wanted to ask you what your biggest lessons or learnings or insights were from your MBA. Nowadays we have a lot of people just generally in our community reaching out asking about what we think about MBAs, whether they should do them if they want to get into entrepreneurship and startups. So I was curious about how that experience was for you and how it's contributed to your great career over the last few decades.

Great question. So 3 things really came out of my an MBA, and what I think an MBA teaches you is that the number one thing is the frameworks that an MBA provides. And a framework is, you know, just really a way of processing information that allows you to organize and categorize it and process large amounts of information and gain insight very quickly. MBAs are intentionally intense, and the point is to force you into a place where you are processing through useful frameworks that allow you to have additional insight that you might not otherwise have. That's really, you know, one of the biggest things about, you know, the content of an MBA. It's not any of the, you know, particular pieces of data because the human body of knowledge updates all the time. But it's frameworks for processing different types of data that are timeless, and that's really helpful. The second thing that came out of my MBA was that was really the place where I discovered something true about myself. And what that was, was I always been a person that I kind of zig when everyone else zags, and always. And so part of that has been, you know, when I was in school, I, I went to Wharton, and that was a very finance and banking school and consulting school. And I tried those things on. And when I was a lot younger, I tried those things on, and I really, you know, put myself into it. But there was a part of me that knew that my heart wasn't completely in it. And so during that time, one day I just knew that I needed and wanted to find what I was really passionate about rather than sort of following what everyone else was doing. And so what I learned about myself and what I said back then is I said, rather than, you know, getting a job that will pay for the bill, because MBAs are very expensive, especially back then, I'm going to find something that justifies having a bill in the first place, something where, you know, my entire being lit up about doing. And for me, that became video games. I truly believed that video games were the, you know, next evolution of human storytelling. Human storytelling is how we know who we are and why we're here and where we're going. Storytelling is another word for culture. Everything that we believe is, in fact, a type of story. And, you know, I had this belief even back then that the, you know, digital landscape, you know, was going to be one of the best tools for human transformation. Though I didn't have that language for it back then. It was more intuition. And so that was one of the places where, you know, during my MBA in the first sort of like high, one of the first high-stakes situations where, you know, I decided to sort of like choose, what I thought or what I felt was going to happen, trust my gut, and I went with it. And I remember funny conversations where people would say, oh, what are you doing? And I'm like, oh, I'm going into gaming. And they say, oh, you're going to move to Vegas? I'm like, no, I'm going to go into video games. And, um, and it just being a shock. And then several years later, now games are bigger than all of the other forms of media combined. And, uh, out of nearly 8 billion people on the planet, over half of them play games and describe themselves gamers in some way or another. People age in but they don't age out because if you play, you always play some kind of game. And the digital natives that are coming up, they see gaming as a part of their lives. And there's all kinds of games, you know, like Call of Duty is only a very small example of what type of games are out there. And so it's really how do we use the digital worlds. And so, you know, that decision what I learned during my MBA was to sort of like choose the things that make you feel truly alive. Because I believe that when you do that, the likelihood of success is higher than if you choose something simply because it solves a problem. And then the last thing that I learned was that it's really all about the people, especially now. It's like the entire body of knowledge in the world is online. And so the reason to do an MBA or the reason to any of these things, it's really about the people that you meet in that setting and, you know, the ability to form strong bonds with like-minded people that will last your entire life. So when I think about, you know, many of the things that are going on in my life right now, I can sort of backtrack to people that I sat with at school and we really talked about how we thought the world was going to be. And, you know, we work together, you know, even now.

Nice. I love that, Nicole. It's a great breakdown. I also— it's a much nicer way to describe being a contrarian. Zagging when everyone else is zigging, or zigging when everyone else is zagging. I love that. Puts a great visual in mind as well. After your MBA, I know you, you worked as an executive, I believe leading operations and marketing for big, big brands in the gaming industry like Activision and Disney and and Vivendi, and one of the things you did was operate World of Warcraft. Was that with Activision? I believe you can, you can clarify that.

That was, um, that was Activision Blizzard, and I did that in China.

Amazing. Yeah, so I was going to ask, what was that experience like in general at a high level? And then were there specific ways that you noticed Activision blend or bake flow into their games, like using, for example, challenge skills balance or immediate feedback. Was that ever explicitly talked about within Activision, ways to increase flow?

I, I'll answer the second part of the question first, which is really sort of game design and flow, which I think is what your question is. You know, all games, all good games actually, are flow machines because they have the elements of, you know, it needs to be easy to do but difficult to master. People don't actually enjoy games that are too easy. People don't necessarily enjoy— it depends on why they're doing it. You know, games are a combination of exploration, play, community, and narrative. But like pure game mechanics, you know, it's sort of like there's the introduction of novelty, the arrival of a new stimulation, the ability to explore, the ability to be successful but not too successful, you know, all of these things that are the flow principles that I've, you know, heard you guys talk about, those are kind of baked into video game mechanics. And it can be, you know, it's sort of like a constant as you move through games and through levels. So it's something that every good game designer has to become good at.

At Activision, were they explicitly using the term flow and referring to the flow triggers, or was it, was it referred to differently?

Well, so I mean, just more broadly, you know, I would say not just, you know, Activision, I would say games in general. The flow triggers are a part of designing great games. And before people started talking about flow, before it was sort of like named that and widely known, people understood, people in the game space, and whether you went to the Game Developers Conference or, you know, any other company, it's like the really the best games, especially the ones, you know, that people enjoyed the most and had, and they were also properly tuned. A game that's got potential but isn't tuned is not going to create flow. So I would say the discipline and the basics of developing great games across the industry came first and calling it things like flow and flow triggers came second.

Got it.

Got it. That's one of the interesting things as well, just within flow research in general, is the different use of words for the same phenomena. So for example, there's a lot of literature in the '70s on autonomy as a flow trigger, but it's referred to as freedom, which is interesting. So it was one of Steven's tasks in Rise of Superman and doing the research for that on flow was understanding what different words are being used to refer to the same underlying thing. And then to go back to Activision, your experience there leading World of Warcraft in China. Would love to hear about what that experience entailed and some of the ways that it impacted your trajectory from there on.

Yeah, so, you know, I oversaw operations for Blizzard China, which included World of Warcraft China, StarCraft China, and also doing localization for some other things in the region. And it was an amazing experience. You know, I went to China in '08, at the beginning of '08, and that was also really when, you know, China was exploding. The economy was taking off, and it was, you know, it's an incredibly dynamic market. It's a place where they were changing so fast. Like, you know, living in Shanghai, which was fabulous, it was kind of amazing. Like, you could walk past the storefront and one day it was a bakery, you come back 3 weeks later, it's a hair salon, and you come back 3 weeks later and it's something else. And so they were just iterating and moving so quickly. And so there was a lot of social pressure in China too at the time because, you know, the generations were changing so quickly. So it was just an incredible, you know, time to be there. It was kind of funny, it's like the It was definitely like every day was like a dog year in terms of just the speed of change and the way that the— especially in Shanghai, China, would just like the buildings would, you know, overnight, you know, massive buildings would be built and, you know, change, change, change, change, change. But it's a, you know, it was a dynamic, really bouncy market. So in terms of what I learned, it's really learning how to iterate quickly, be super adaptable be able and willing to see a movement and move quickly to either capture the opportunity or avoid the risk. It's definitely a market that makes you move very, very quickly, and I feel very fortunate to have been there at the time.

Yeah, it's nice to have been able to experience it at the bottom of their exponential curve. It's pretty wild, the growth from there to now with respect to China. One of the other things I wanted to ask you about, Nicole, before I go to asking you about trans tech, which I would argue is one of the things you're best known for, is your novel The Sisterhood, which I've seen described before as a work of transformative Afro-futuristic fiction, which I think is a fantastic little breakdown for it. So could you describe that genre to us and also what The Sisterhood is and also how you became a novelist? Amidst everything else?

Yeah, I mean, a big part of it was I started the outline for The Sisterhood when I was in college, and the storyline for everyone is that it's about 9 Black women who start a multinational tech company, and they use that company to fund a foundation that supports women and girls to basically experience transformation. You know, it's so funny when you look back on your life and you see that every single thing is in the same— I've always been in the same stadium about what I was really interested in. And so with this, you know, it was one part I really wanted a book that had what I was seeking, which was characters that I really cared about doing great and grand things. And you have to remember, like, I did this outline of this book when I was in college. And back then, you really didn't see people of color on TV. And if you did see them on TV and in movies, they weren't saving the world in the central role. And so, you know, these women, what they do in the book is they— and this is on the first couple of pages— but they discover a cure for a pretty nasty drug and they have to, or a vaccination against its effects, and they have to sort of like race against time and enemies on many different levels to get it to people. And then their message of transformation and liberation and sovereignty and community is really appealing to lots of people who are outside of who and what they look like. And so they become very dangerous to a lot of different people. So the book is like how they navigate it and how they transform themselves in order to meet the new challenge. It's interesting. It's like there's nonprofits of women who, of all different types, who give the book to new women who join the board. Because the other thing that the women do in the book is they share power. And they don't always get along. They don't always like each other, you know, but they have a kind of love and respect in the way that they communicate with one another that they're really able to make good decisions together and challenge one another into making those good decisions. And that's not something still today, if you think about, you know, all the media that you see, you probably can't think of a show or a movie where you have stable women, smart, stable women sharing power in order to accomplish great and grand goals. That hasn't happened yet. So that's really what I wanted to see. And so the book, writing the book took me about 16 years 'cause I did it in pieces and on the side while I was doing my career. And I finished it—

I was just gonna interject there for a second. Were you literally writing it? For 16 years, piece by piece, or was it the culmination of a 16-year period of lessons and learnings that went into it?

I was writing the outline and researching because it also was a, you know, it's a specific— it actually is kind of a blueprint. Like, if you wanted to change the economic and social reality of about 40 million people this is how you would do it. So it actually is like, I actually talked to economic development people and like, I really like, like this, it actually is a blueprint in story form of if you want to do this, this is actually how you liberate 40 million people, approximately 40 million people.

Wow. So in addition to, yeah, it's a blueprint, a map cloaked in fiction.

Yeah, yeah. Because I remembered when I was in college, I read Atlas Shrugged and became an Objectivist for about 4 months, you know, because Objectivism is, you know, Ayn Rand's Objectivism is like, especially when you're young, it's really appealing, you know, it's so appealing. And then after a little while, you figure out, oh, there's no magic in this. Like, life should be the fact that we're alive. Is magical and extraordinary, and especially for us in, you know, in this country, because, you know, even for all of our, like, our worst scenarios here are incredibly luxurious compared to the way a lot of people are in different parts of the world, you know, live. I've been to over 70 countries, and I travel outside of the normal paths And so for people, especially like for women, you know, for all of those women who are living in Afghanistan right now, like, that's like— there's lots of people in this world who have true real problems. And I'm not saying we don't have them here, and we do, but in the U.S. we have— we're very, very fortunate. And so when you have the fortune of not, you know, having to, you know, worry about the rule of law on a regular basis and you know, and some other things like that. It's like there's a magical quality to life, and I just wanted it to be a little juicier than, you know, Anne's point of view. But I didn't miss the lesson, and the lesson is that fiction is an incredible way of helping people see how things might be. That's why, you know, I also love science fiction, and the very best science fiction I love a good space opera as much as anyone else, but the very best science fiction are the ones that make you think about a problem today in a different way. And then the last thing I would say is that, you know, where we are fundamentally as a society is that, you know, for all the problems that people see us having, if you're actually tracking what's happening in terms of information energy, manufacturing, so materials, materials, food, and a few other things. It's like the change is dramatic. The cost of production, the reduction that is about to happen in waste around these areas and all of that hitting on top of one another. It's fundamental. Two people I really— whose work I really love is Jamie Arbieb and Tony Seba. And they're also futurists. And, you know, they really look at what's happening to the molecules. So what's happening in food, what's happening in material science. And they just, you know, put out a strong statement which basically was like the cost of creation of things, the American dream will cost about $250 in 10 years, which is sort of like a jaw-dropping kind of thing to say. And they love saying things like that. But, you know, if you're actually in the know and you're tracking this stuff, then you know that it's actually true. You know, and there's a point on the price-performance cost curves that once you get past a certain point, it does become inevitable. And so what's left— and this is Flow research and our shared interest in human transformation— the part that is not on the same pace, that is not on the same level, is the human mindset. It's human liberation. It's a human transformation. It's the people part. And the only thing in between us and that future is the operating system, which is essentially norms, myths, culture, beliefs. And the thing that is, you know, really in the way there is, you know, fear, love, belonging, self-knowledge, connection, communication, all the things that we don't teach people how to do, but, you know, make all the difference in the world. And You know, given what's happening, it's the lever that we have to pull in order to transition to what's next for humans.

Yeah, I love that point that the external is exponentially improving and accelerating, but the internal is not necessarily on that growth curve.

Yeah, absolutely.

Hey there, just going to interrupt. If you are a leader, a knowledge worker, or an entrepreneur and you want to take your professional success to the next level while reclaiming time, space, and freedom within your personal life, then Zero to Dangerous may be a fit for you. Zero to Dangerous is our flagship peak performance training. You'll work one-on-one with our coaches. You'll go through our whole curriculum. You'll join a community of peak performers from all over the world.

This was like a really weird thing that happened is my workday started ending at 2. So then somewhere in Sort of Dangerous, there was this idea that I needed now an entirely new category of things to do just because I enjoy them, which is, you know, entrepreneur for 23 years, it never occurred to me to make a list of things to do for the sheer pleasure of doing them because I had gotten all my work done. Like, it never occurred to me to do that. It was really, really weird. I enforced the deadline. Like, it had to be real. I had to create the output to really have the experience be valid. And I was watching my productivity go up and up and up, and I was like, what do I do now? It's 2 o'clock. And it was just so weird. Like, when you have, you know, 20 or 30 people who have weird experiences like that and you can put them in a way that somebody can kind of scan through those, it allows somebody to self-identify and be like, oh God, that's really meaningful to me. Because some person's going to be like a 40-year-old dad who's going to go through Zero to Dangerous and make enough time to go see his kids play baseball or whatever. That's going to be somebody.

Go to getmoreflow.com, getmoreflow.com. Pop an application through, takes 30 seconds. We would be excited to speak with you to see whether it's a good fit. So that's getmoreflow.com. Let's segue for a moment then, Nicole, to TransTech. Could you give us a breakdown for everyone on your mission at TransTech, which I know is to, to permanently move a billion people into a state of fundamental well-being and Flourishing by 2030. So I would love to hear a breakdown of what transformative tech is in general, and then if you could speak to that mission a little bit more as well, that would be fantastic.

Yeah, so transformative tech is simply put using technology to support the whole human, so the mental and emotional health, social and emotional wellness, and human purpose and performance. And it's saying, you know, we can use technology for the inner landscape. We can use technology to become healthier and happier and more connected to one another, you know. So for that, that goal of a billion people, it's not any one product and it's not any one modality. It's really about everything from understanding how to use our environments to support our mental, emotional, and social health and wellness, and using technology for that, how to use you know, buildings and nutrition and doing it on an internal level, external level. But it's really turning technology towards, you know, being human and, you know, becoming deeply human.

And then the phrase fundamental well-being is particularly intriguing to me. Is there something specific that is meant within that phrase fundamental well-being beyond what it states?

Yeah, so fundamental well-being is actually, it's a really subversive statement because what it points to is higher levels of human consciousness. You know, you kind of have to be in the know to know it, but fundamental well-being is specifically another word for non-duality, awakeness, oneness, transcendence, unity consciousness, all of that sort of thing. But it's, you know, it's one that people don't bounce off of. They can imagine what well-being is, and they can hope and imagine what feeling fundamentally well might be. It's really about that. Because if you think about Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the bulk of technology to date that we can think of has really done those bottom layers of stability, security, the very physical area. Then the middle part of the triangle is when you start to get into self-belonging, I mean belonging connection, and then up to self-actualization, which most entrepreneurs are working on, and a bunch of other stuff. But there was a piece above that that Maslow researched and included in his triangle, but he published the bulk of the research before he really pushed on this, and it was called self-transcendence. And that's the place where he identified people who were experiencing like a constant state of flow. We've actually had lots of conversations with Stephen about it, sort of the difference between task-related flow and state-related experience of flow that comes from being in a state of transcendence. And so it's a little bit different. It's different. And that's a whole nother podcast. But Maslow, the self-transcendence was when people realize that they don't need the self that they just actualized. Then you're free and it's an entirely different game. And so that's what fundamental well-being points to.

So I want to come back to TransTech in a moment, but what are some of the personal habits and practices that you have or have found most effective for achieving fundamental well-being for yourself?

Hands down, it's meditation. Hands down. The first thing every single person should do or at least try is meditation. And then of course, there's basic hygiene things around sleep, food, sleep and nutrition and hydration. Those are just kind of the basics. When I do those, life is better. When I don't do those, life has more obstacles. But when my sleep, hydration, and nutrition is in place and when I'm meditating daily, life is just a lot easier. And then some of the other things that I like to do, and I would not say that I am in a state of fundamental wellbeing constantly. I have moments when I am and I have moments when I'm not. But what I have done a fair bit of is really deconstructing my own ego. I'm kind of at a place, I was mentoring someone who's really young the other day and I was like, yeah, I don't really operate from guilt, obligation, or embarrassment anymore. Like it just really, really hard to manipulate. I think so. Like it's just like none of that stuff works on me anymore.

What contributed to that? Was it primarily meditation, or what are some of the other things you think have contributed to those shifts?

I really love Conscious Leadership Group. I really love that framework. And so right now I'm in the— I've been diving deep into that. But a lot of it is just truly like knowing yourself and waking up to the difference between fact and story and a bunch of other things that just contributes to freedom.

So I want to just pause on the meditation piece for a second because I'm imagining that meditation has also had a massive impact on it. And you mentioned that hands down, that's been the most effective practice. I also actually did my dissertation, my master's in neuroscience on the relationship between mindfulness and flow. And there's a lot of correlational evidence there. So I'm curious what your meditation practice looks like now. And what the most effective form of meditation you found is. And maybe that's the same thing. I'm assuming you are doing what you found most effective, but maybe that's not the case also.

No, I move around. I co-developed the— and I published the Finders Course with Jeffrey Martin. And that was basically the top 6 forms of meditation in terms of effectiveness delivered in a non-religious, no dogma way to help people understand what works for them the best and as a point of departure of where they should focus. Instead of, you know, when you— for the most part, when people learn to meditate, they are first presented with the religious and belief framework of whatever it is they're working on. And so they don't actually know if the actual mechanics work for them psychologically and physiologically. And so, but the other thing that we encourage people to do in the class is to do what works and what works sometimes changes. So I alternate between my core is standard Vipassana, and then I have sat with Dan Brown 3 times who is Tibetan Bon. And so I also do sort of like an open-ended awareness. And so I kind of toggle between those two depending on what feels best and what I'm working on.

What does it look like in terms of when you do it, how frequent and how long?

Ideally, it's daily, but I'm not going to say I always do it every day.

And 20 minutes or an hour? What does that generally look like?

Typically I'll do a half an hour, but I'll often do an hour. And then if I don't have time for that, I'll just do a couple of minutes. You know, it's better to do it than not to do it.

Right. Nice. Okay. That's super helpful for folks. And then the next thing I wanted to ask you is what transformative technology that you've come across in the last, let's say, year to 18 months, roughly since COVID has been most exciting to you?

Yeah, I mean, I'm really excited about collisions between categories because there's a lot of people focused on different senses or different— I guess I like mashups. So I'm really interested in people mashing up things like neuromodulation mashed up with other things. Like, I'm really interested in, in unexpected mashups because I like the, the new ground and territory.

Are there any other specific ones that are— that you're sort of— that you're tracking or trending right now?

You know, I mean, I really—

I'm—

I want us to get flat glucose monitors that you can get at Walgreens that, you know, are not based on prescriptions. I think that people should be able to monitor the impact of all the decisions that they make on their glucose. And I think that anyone who's experienced a hangry partner knows that blood glucose and mood are closely tied. And so right now you really have to jump through hoops and be essentially a biohacker to get access to that type of data. And I just like— that should be— you should be able to go to Walgreens and you should be able to get a sticker for blood glucose monitoring when you pick up your toothpaste. And it should be that easy because I think that's— I want that to happen. The other thing that's going on that people should be aware of is that there are— I think that there are— people might not know this, but there's a lot of elements of hormones, women's hormones that present like depression. And so I think a lot of people are being given SSRIs that really just need to get their hormones monitored. And so I think there's a lot of mismatching of what's going on. And so I think— so I also love more accessible hormone testing for people that would allow people to be more informed. It's actually really hard to get your hormones tested. And so I think that there are people who are who are being told they're depressed and need SSRIs when really they just have a hormone issue. So there's some basics where we could just get a lot of lift from making certain types of tests more accessible to people.

Yeah, I love those two. They're great examples, really practical and hopefully not too far off. Levels Health is a company that's doing great work on the metabolic fitness side around continuous glucose monitoring. So that's definitely something people to check out. And I know you've got a, you've got a jet, Nicole. So the final question, which is one we always ask at Flow Research Collective Radio, is our research genie question. And it's a question about a question. So if you could click your fingers and instantly have all of the research be conducted to answer any question that you have or that you've pondered for years, what would that question be?

Oh my gosh, there's so Oh, but there's like so many. Well, I would say one of the things— I'll just say something I'm really interested in. One of the things that I'm the most interested in is how our senses and states of well-being will map between the physical augmented slash transformative and the digital layers. Because we're very quickly, you know, most people are talking about the metaverse, but it really is also the multiverse, which is where the physical, transformative, and digital layers are. We move seamlessly between them and they're interoperable. And I think it's going to be really interesting to see how the brain and body, how our neurobiodata maps to, you know, the ability to sort of like move from zone to zone.

Nice. No, it's a great one. That's, that's gonna be exciting when that happens too. Well, listen, Nicole, thank you so much.

I appreciate your time.

It's been great. And for people who wanna learn more, your website, which is beautifully designed by the way, is, I believe it's just your name. It's Nicole Bradford, N-I-C-H-O-L.

Or transformative-tech.org is a good one to go to. So, okay, perfect. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time.

Thanks, Nicole.

All the best.

Bye-bye.

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