Two Pints of Culture, Please – With Dave Morrissey

Welcome to the Struggle Bus of the eSpot Show, the home of the e-com nearly news. I'm your host Vinny O Brien, or as my friends like to call me, hey you in the bushes. As an aged journeyman in e-commerce, I wanted to create the Struggle Bus to give us space to allow empathy to manifest into something, uh, happy through shared experience. Today will be no different. I set out, as you know, to keep these chats about 18 to 25 minutes, but today I'm joined by not your average Irishman, Dave Morrissey, growth and culture consultant, ex-Meta, ex-TikTok, author of Grow Like Tech and world traveler. Dave, welcome to the show, Cod Aí on Scáil.

Oh, Will took them off. I haven't used Irish in a while, even though I named my consultancy in an Irish way.

Yeah, I love that. It was when you were on the Functional Fabulous podcast that I really picked that up. Um, and 3— that was 3 months well spent.

Uh, what's— oh, the summer ticket? Yeah, yeah, it was that and a lot of, uh, chats and a lot of meandering around Europe. Uh, oh yeah, I lived my, um, or became my inner Greta Thunberg. I went all the way to Italy, uh, by train, so Eurostar from London, and just trained all the way. So I think Greta would be proud of me.

We could send her a note and see what she said. You can compare notes, although I think her summary was a little bit different to yours. I always try and start this podcast off with one big question. As you know, we try and build the conversations organically, or at least I told you. You've gone on record a few times and said right now that Ireland is at this cultural peak. I always call that, that it's currency being Irish. Why do you say we are at this peak now? What are the indicators you've seen in your travels?

Uh, well, first of all, first and foremost, music is, uh, my everything. Um, it's, uh, all I wanted to do. That's how I started work, really, getting in the music industry. Um, actually recently got a tattoo of Witness, my very first festival in Ireland, which has also got a point in it. Uh, much, much laughter of some of my mates. Uh, but, but that was, that was, uh profound experience for me. It's kind of a life-changing experience. Anyway, um, so can I—

sorry, what was so profound about it? Uh, it was—

I discovered this big massive music gathering. I was like, I want to work in this, or I want to make my own festival. So I basically proactively reached out to promoters and stuff and started working with um, running gigs in Limerick and then up in Dublin as well. Um, and also it was quite interesting because that— I remember that morning, uh, we got up really early, like half 5, half 5, to get a bus from Limerick to— was it Ponchestown? Um, and I remember something happened, the bus didn't materialize. We're kind of hanging around. I remember that morning, it was so early morning, I was kind of like I was kind of like, oh gosh, this is a bit of a— oh no, I don't know if I'm up for this. This seems like a bit of a real hardship. And I just, I just remember that moment in my life. And then we kind of pushed through, we figured a way, we got to Ponystown. And ever since then, there's been times like that where I go, oh, this is a bit hard now, this is, this is a bit hard. But every time I go, hold on, remember that time? Just push through, just push through a bit of hardship. And then Sean O'Riela opened up in this festival. But it was just that, that feeling feeling of, oh, this is a bit of a tough thing here, I don't know, don't know if I'm up for it. I've kind of taken that and go, no, no, something always good will come true with the hardship. So hardship is a good thing. Um, so yeah, that time and all the music and just the gathering and the culture and everything, just, yeah, completely life-changing. And you know, you kind of have times in your life where you measure the kind of the milestones. So like there's things that happen before Witness and after Witness. Uh, and also 2013 was another year when I joined Facebook, Meta, which is quite life-changing as well. So I kind of benchmark things pre and post those milestones. Go— was that before that or was that after that?

I think Witness is probably before that, if— and then Facebook, um, or Meta, whatever it's called these days.

This was 2003. Yeah, this is 2003.

That makes sense.

So yeah, those— that kind of decade was kind of a milestone. But, um, so go back to the question is Yeah, I look at measure, um, where we are in terms of music and almost a hierarchy of lineups. So back then we kind of had, you know, you had the likes of maybe The Frames or Belle X1s and all these. They were big nationally, but global stage, your Glastonbrees, your Coachellas, all these things, nowhere to be seen. Nowadays you have Fontaines. You have kneecap, you've seen that. Um, you even have— not my kind of stuff, but Dermot Kennedy and stuff like this, even Hozier and stuff. You have massive headline acts on stages around the world. You also have— and then the music side, you have Bicep, you have Ketama, um, you have a flourishing loads of other DJs, um, like Saoirse or everyone around. So lineups, because I'm a bit of a lineup nerd, looking at the hierarchy. Now you see Irish everywhere where you never had that before. So it starts there, and then I kind of look more, and then you look at things like, um, Oscars and Golden Globes. You have Saoirse Ronan, you have Ruth Negga, you have Cillian Murphy. Suddenly you have Irish winning things a lot in these spaces and being really well regarded and being in blockbusters like Oppenheimer and stuff like this. So that was like, oh no, that's something different as well we haven't had before. And then you start to look further, um, you see Jonathan Anderson with Dior, um, Simone Rocha stuff. So the fashion world were set to get really influential. Then you go further and you look at Guinness, the biggest selling drink, uh, in the UK. Everyone drinks Guinness. And actually, I heard, uh, the big trend for 2026, by the way, is split the bee, because Beamish are coming into— Beamish are coming into London.

We've broken an exclusive, finally.

Yeah, yeah, uh, so, so that's it. So our, our national drink is, is, uh, so omnipresent. Um, chicken fillet rolls have gone huge. Like, there's queues going around down to London Fields, uh, where I am near, uh, with Emerald Eats. Um, they had just created a sensation in London with, uh, chicken fillet rolls and spice bag. Um, So food, Irish food is becoming a sexy kind of thing as well. And even in business, like if you look at in the big tech companies, you start to see in leadership levels, a lot of Irish, a lot of Irish. And I was kind of, I kind of, I wouldn't say punching above our weight, but we're, for a nation of 4.5-odd million people, we're very, we're very influential at the moment in lots of respects, lots of places. And it's quite fascinating to see, I'm quite proud of it. But then I start to think further, why is that? I think we're the most socially fluid people in the world. I think we just are, probably because of our history, our geography and everything, we kind of, our immigration mode, we're just able to go out into the world. But I think we just have a real kind of common sense about us, a real pragmatism and a real ability to just get on with people and get on with things that we just start to do very well. Even if I look at TikTok, when I was working there in the UK, the top 5 salespeople, 4 of them were Irish, you know. So of a huge sales org. So again, you start to see really good— and they're not salesy salesy, they just help, they're just very helpful. They're, they're good. I think we have a good service culture in us.

Yeah, we don't tip. Weird.

Yeah, and like, I kind of like try and get a— try and get a fucking pint in London, you know, versus go home and there's a barman there who's like a fucking octopus and he has 50 orders going on and just serve, serve, serve. So I think that we have that in our kind of psyche and DNA as well. So all of these things combined is making for a very interesting, uh, time in Irish culture. I think outside of Ireland more than inside of Ireland, the odd, uh, thing. Oh, here's one final piece on this. So if you look across the world, right, the— in every big town or city, there are two, uh, food and drink establishments that aren't from that town or city that are that country. Number one, a Chinese, which is from a country of a billion plus people. And number two, an Irish pub. Yeah, for a country of 4.5 million people, or whatever it is, 5 million, whatever. So it's just, it's fascinating how Irishness is everywhere. And I actually had, um, coffee. I don't know if you know Irvine, he's a wicked DJ producer here. And he was telling me, because he helps out the St. Patrick's Day Festival in London, working with the mayor's office there, and he was telling me that St. Patrick's Day is the largest festival in the world. It's the most celebrated by—

in most, the most countries, geographies, and cities.

Yeah, it is. Yeah, in the world. I was like, interesting, did not know that.

It's incredible. So we're, we're almost 10 minutes in, I've only asked you one question. I told you this would be— no, it's incredible. But you get asked about growth much and you get asked about marketing. I thought it'd be more interesting to ask you about the cultural side because all the times we've spoken, I know that that's in you. And one of the things that I could never understand until right in the last 10 minutes was when you gave talks for TikTok, you talked so effortlessly about how to create content and how easy it was. And I think now listening to you, it's because of your association with culture. And it's a very present thing, is the way I describe it, listening to you again. And do you go through your daily life purposefully seeking culture out, or are you just aware? Is that something that's always in you?

Hmm, I, I do, I do remember, uh, when I was growing up, uh, my parents on the—

I was just gonna say, even your pictures on your wall tell a story.

Oh yeah, yeah, well, ramen and, uh, the kitcharing thing. There's more around. There's actually in front of me, you can't see, but it's, uh, sketches of all Limerick pubs and cafes, or mainly pubs.

Uh, so just a Limerick question because I lived there for a few years, as I said to you before. What's your favorite Limerick pub if you've got them on the wall?

Oh Jesus, people will kill me now. They'll expect a few good answers. There's a few of them. Uh, the Commercial, uh, Commercial's a great one, um, and a really beautiful, um, creative community in there. Uh, Tom Collins is a gem, a cozy gem. Yeah. Uh, Mother Max is another gem as well, nice lovely community in there as well. And kind of a, a lesser spotted one, uh, JJ Bowles down the river. Um, it's like, it's almost flush with the Shannon.

That's under the bridge near Southfields Bridge.

Near, yeah, yeah, that's, that's around that area. Yeah, yeah, you kind of have to find it. Um, yeah, they'll be kind of my kind of standouts. Um, but, uh, the culture I get— I remember I was growing up, um, so my parents would always have the Sunday Times on a Sunday, but you know, all the supplements.

Yeah.

And I always went for the culture one first, and I think that name just kind of— what culture is just seared in my memory. Because usually I was checking, um, album reviews or anything, or— and I was kind of like, maybe look at the book section or whatever. So yeah, culture, it's— I don't know if twice— I just love things. I like, I like things. I like how people interact with ideas and things and how people interact with each other. Um, I could be a massive people watcher. And I just like go to different places, see what's going on there. And I like the gray area of life. Yeah, like there's nothing— humans are fascinating, like we're fascinating creatures, and there's so many of us to look at. I don't know, it's an interesting guy. I just, yeah, I just, I do kind of I suppose if I had a great trait or anything, it's this hyper-curiosity, just kind of always trying to figure out things or look at things and go, what's going on there? Um, you know, I have a lovely group of lots of mates who are in a kind of creative, curious space, which is always kind of— again, they did inspire me as well a lot. Like, you know, that everyone I went to this festival with, like, they sparked these things in me, and I've kind of gone off my own adventures of trying to find and figure out things then as well.

So, but it in itself must be a great trait to bring to a meeting. And you've, you've done a lot of client meetings, your time at TikTok, your time at Meta. One of the, the more interesting areas that, that I don't think you've been asked about, at least not from my research, is your time at Flubbitt. Because I was just coming out of eBay and I came across some of the team, and I'm trying to think of Andy's surname and I can't remember it for life.

Andy Stephen.

Yeah, Andy Stephen.

Oh, he's a gem.

Yeah, he's a great guy. And I remember meeting him, he was on the BD team. You were probably in the Irish team at that stage. But even to go and take a chance on something like Flowbit, I think is really interesting. But what did you learn there that became part of the makeup for how you wanted to do or not do things as a, as related to e-commerce? Because it was a tough gig, I'm sure.

It was a tough— it was, it was very interesting because I was drawn to it because I think, uh, the brand and everything, a lot of character. Yeah. Uh, and I was a social media manager, so I kind of went and did, uh, silly content and posted on Facebook, which is kind of the thing. Um, which is kind of— I've always drawn to, um, it was quirky, and that's why, that's why, that's what I like. I like quirky things. Like, even like my music industry today is working with the Rubber Bandits and stuff like that. I was kind of like, what's the, the more off-piste quirky things? Because there's so much boring shit out there really in marketing and stuff like that. It's just, um, let's just do something more interesting, a bit weird. Um, but what I learned, I, I think I just learned, um, tech culture. And I had come from the music industry, which is quite archaic and unstructured, and then I heard this word scale, no pun intended, but like scale something up. And I was like, what? That's— what's that about? Um, and I just knew like the— this, this kind of mindset or mantra to, um, how can you kind of do one thing that becomes 100 things over here? Yeah. And then it becomes 1,000, which is kind of a un— heard of, taught in not just music industry but also I think most industries. And so scalability, um, yeah, just moving fast, um, and just e-commerce. I was completely blind to e-commerce as well.

Uh, and I, I think that was an advantage to you though, Dave, because again, thinking about— you talk a lot about community and, and the necessity for it and the necessity for brand owners to be, you know, really embedded in the thing that they do, they either love it or, or, or they don't. And, and it's really hard to make great content if you don't love the thing that you're, you're meant to be about. So I think you were at this massive advantage. And when I was coming into this conversation, I think I messaged you the other day to say one big question. The, the question I was actually going to start with is, is along those lines, and it's more to get your opinion on the state of the market in general. I think we have, we've mistaken the word experiential commerce for what it should have been, which was entertainment. And I kind of feel like that's why TikTok Shop and whatnot and other platforms are winning a little bit now, because they were entertainment first and commerce second. I actually don't think there's any room for experiential commerce. I know that sounds dumb, but, but I think e-commerce at its core is functional. But I'd love to hear experience or entertainment? And I'm pretty sure I know the answer, but I'd love to hear your take on experience and is it right or wrong in e-commerce.

Uh, I've been kind of following a lot the, the, the new shifts with, uh, IRL engagements with e-commerce brands. I like, if you look at Gymshark and Represent in particular in the UK. There's other ones I know outside doing running clubs. Yeah, um, that's, that's kind of fascinating because I'm like, okay, that's kind of doing something completely not with pixels, um, but it's an actual, actual community thing and it's good for people. And it actually, it's quite, it's been quite, um, beautiful to see. I actually saw there's a post the other day, sorry, this is going a bit off piece, but, um, for women in London, it's, it's, it's especially now it's darker at 5 and everything, it's not safe for them to go out running. Um, but these run clubs are the safe place now, so they can do a run at 7 or 8 PM. Uh, I think she thanked Gymshark for someone for that. Anyway, I was like, that's quite a nice thing. Kind of removing ourselves from the capitalist engine that is e-commerce and stuff. Yeah, I was like, okay, that's great. Um, so I think it's changed. I think, I think you can entertain people with a, uh, with a post, um, or a TikTok or whatever, but I think the experience thing is something everyone should, uh, lean into. And I actually think brands can give a service, kind of like that, that example there. Yeah, to— can provide a service or a safe place or a third space or whatever you want to call it, um, for people to kind of do more in real life stuff, especially as AI looms. Um, so I think the brands who kind of are just being interesting and helpful in real life and putting on these events. I've had all the Lift events Gymshark do and everything, and others do as well. They're great. Like, yeah, just, it's, it's a nice— I think it's just a nice way to be. It's a very human way to be. Just let's put on nice things, let's do nice things together. Uh, and I think, yeah, you still need the entertainment and the pixels. Um, but that's, that's— there's a certain cap to that. And I think the brands who are going to do that, and it is doing the harder things, and this is something I've kind of started to get my head around, right, lately, because I think we're in a very much a shortcut society. Especially with ChatGPT and that. I think it's the people who are doing the harder things, going, pushing a bit harder, and are the ones who are gonna— they're essentially providing more value. But I think they're going to be more sustainable as brands, as creators, or whoever. Um, they're the ones who kind of, uh, win out. And, and it's, it's a nice value exchange with, um, consumers.

Taking a cue again, some of the things you talked around creativity and how important it is, it can be difficult for people to get their head around. But again, I think e-commerce has gotten it wrong for the last 10 years or more because we've let accountancy periods dictate performance. And I think we kind of need to move beyond that a little bit and get to this this whole new world, which is not easy. I mean, look, we all have to pay the bills and all those things are incredibly important, but I think we're ready for this new type of commerce. And just one final comment, the one you were saying about Gymshark, I thought was really interesting. During COVID they did this social listening experiment where the first few weeks they provided a space for all their creators to earn money from home and let them set up at-home sessions and all that good stuff. And then about 3 weeks into it, they realized just through listening that the people at home were now starting to suffer with mental health issues. So they brought in yoga instructors and they did this massive category expansion. And now all of a sudden their customer base is vastly different. And then I heard this comment this year, chatting to a guy, Dave Finnegan. I don't know if you haven't met him, you should absolutely. He's ex-Build-A-Bear, fantastic guy. But he talks about the need for recognition, not surveillance. And as I think about Gymshark, the way you describe it, it feels like they're in recognising mode, not surveillance. So I don't think they were socially listening as we think about it. I think they were just being aware of what people were telling them and recognising how to service what's going on. Because fundamentally, it's an awful thing that women have to feel unsafe to go jogging at 5 o'clock in the evening. Like, that's a pretty bad slant in society in general. But they recognize that it's an actual thing and they've provided something to move out of it. I'm conscious of time and I try to keep this to a certain length. I'm going to get to my second last big question now, but before I do, you're authoring your second book right now and I'm just wondering, are you getting more into the cultural side of things as you go through this or what's this one going to lean towards?

Well, it's about Irish culture thriving. So it's bang on. I actually initially, I was only thinking of doing it around literally arts, music, culture, that culture as it is. But the more I've kind of looked at it, it's us in business culture as well. Kind of everything I was saying, like how kind of socially fluid we are and how we, like, you see, like, we now have uh, Stroik Brothers, um, who I'd regard as probably of all the tech leader Illuminati in Silicon Valley, I think they're probably the most moralistic. Um, and they just seem the most—

well, good Limerick men or Tipperary, depends on who you speak to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, we'll say Limerick. We're on the border.

They're on the border.

Yeah, I'm sure Cork people would try to get a claim in there because Sure, and Kerry, like, you know all about that.

I'm actually living in Kerry. That's the thing people don't know about me. I'm a blow-in. I— Kildare have nothing, like thoroughbred horses, that's it. And a great place for Dubliners to buy a cheaper house, but outside of that, great place for festivals.

Um, but, but they just, they just definitely seem the most grounded, um, of a lot of, a lot of them over there. And again, like, look, it's a multi-billion dollar company they've built. It's, it's one of the, um, it's not the Magnificent Seven yet, but it's, it's there. It's, it's like just really very impressive. And again, we never had that before. We never had Collisons, um, And it's quite interesting to see. I don't know if you saw there, I think it was John did a piece about Ireland and its lackadaisical approach to infrastructure and building for the future. And now, well, the government say they are, but they seem to be like going, right, let's do this, let's do exactly what they said.

Yeah.

And again, that's a very interesting time we're in now that we actually have leadership. Because you used to have like Michael O'Leary and Vinny O Brien say, ah, shit, or you should do something better, but nothing ever happened. But suddenly you have these two brothers who've amassed such influence, um, that they can go, no, no, we should actually fix this now. So again, very different time. And that's why I'm kind of going into this second book, going into, okay, look, let's look at Irish and Irishness in, uh, the world of business and tech and everything as well.

That's amazing. I can't wait to get my hands on it when it's finished. And I just hear you're doing it though, but yeah, it must be an amazing thing to do. And other things that like spring to mind as I drive around the country down here in Kerry, there's places with names like Lyracrumpon or Farmer's Bridge, and there's a story behind all these things. And when you get into the Irish side of it, it's really interesting. And not to give away her favorite holiday place, but you mentioned Ruth Ní Gha earlier on. I bumped into her this summer on her favorite holiday spot with a dude from Limerick who's her first cousin. So Ireland being a village and all that, they've been—

Would that have been Castle Gregory and Pete?

Yes, yes, it was. I know she's on record as saying that anyway.

Uh, it was probably one of the Malones. I know them well. One of them was—

What, you know?

Oh, I, I, I, I went to school with some small—

We might as well end the, the, the call on as Irish a point as we can. But before we go, tell me if you're career was a song right now, you being Mr. Music and all, what would it be up to this point?

Uh, oh, I'd love to— I'd love to say right now would be like Queens of Stone Age, Gold to Flow, because I just want to get a Queens of Stone Age, uh, referencing. Um, for me, uh, it never always, always feels like it is sometimes, but maybe, um eventually get there, you have to go through a bit of hardship to get there, but Radiohead, Everything in Its Right Place.

Wow, that's, that's a place nobody has gone on these lists yet, and they're being put together on a Spotify list, and hopefully then when we all get together in spring for a Struggle Bus party, we will all be, uh, we'll all be sharing our thoughts. Uh, Dave, for anyone that's on the Struggle Bus who are trying to build community, give us one or two things you think they should focus on? Is it culture over strategy? What are the areas you encourage people to think through, not just to do, but to think through? Because you're more, you're, you're more deep than that.

Uh, people first, I suppose. Just think of the person. Think of, like, honestly, I think we kind of lose sight of that a lot. Um, think of what, what does that person think, need, want. Uh, so I think that solves— that's just kind of— okay, actually, no, I think— and I did a customer centricity talk there last week or before in Manchester. I finished with this slide. I was like, I used to say this to my team as well, uh, don't sell, solve. Just solve, solve and serve, solve and serve. If we are there to solve and serve each other, not to sell shit or sell things, I just think everything gets better. I think that having that mentality to kind of, how come, how can I be there to solve things for you or to serve you? And if you can, then if you scale that then to multiple millions customers, great and everything. But I think that that's, that mindset goes a long way.

Amazing. And just while I have you, I think you're the embodiment of what it means to be from the west side of the Shannon. You live and breathe culture, you love a little bit of hardship and live for meeting people and having a bit of fun along the way. Every time I meet you, it's always good fun. I just wish there was more times we could get to do it.

Oh, like, well, I really do need to come visit, uh, truly one day. We could do a little trip to Dingle. How about that?

There we go. I, well, I have a pub earmarked for you. It's called Nora Murphy's. The only place you can go if you fall off the pier is go west towards New York. So If you make it down this way, join us. I have a few of the boys coming down on December 5th. You know plenty of them. So if the date suits, we'll get you to come along. But Dave, look, thanks so much for taking time out.

Say that again. I won't be around, but catch you for the next one.

Definitely. We'll get you for the next one. There's a giant quiz and all as well. And it's a very thought-provoking day. Very thought-provoking day. But look, thank you so much for taking time out of your schedule. Where can people find you? LinkedIn is usually where I tell people to go.

Yeah, LinkedIn. I'm on there talking, talking about stuff and doing stuff.

And you've just recorded your audiobook for Grow Like Tech as well. I'm going to drop the link into the show notes for people as well. I'd love to talk to you about that process as well at some other point, but maybe we'll get on and have another chat at some point in the future.

Mount Everest of procrastination.

That sounds like my kind of procrastination. I love it.

It's a beast. Yeah, I love it. And dude, this is great. I've loved this. Thanks for this. This is a great podcast.

Amazing. Thanks. Recommend it to anyone you want or tell them to drop along, but look forward to dropping the episode in a couple of weeks. And thank you so much for joining me.

Thanks, Luke. Cheers. See you, dude.