Done For You Dispositions with Paul Wakim, Founder of TwnSqr

Real estate investors who are our clients, they're looking for one thing, and that's offers on their properties. If we can get you offers on your properties in the most simple, streamlined way possible, then it's better for us, it's better for you. You don't have to go out and learn a new process or a new software. You're listening to the Just Start Real Estate Podcast.

If you're serious about your real estate investing business and need real answers, you are in the right place. And now, your host, Mike Simmons. All right, thank you for joining me on Just Start Real Estate. I appreciate you being here. I appreciate you tuning into the show. We got a good one for you today. A friend of mine, Paul Wakim, is on, and he is the founder of Townsquare. And Townsquare, uh, he has been on this, uh, podcast before, uh, talking about Townsquare. Uh, I am an advisor to that business, and they have made some really big changes, kind of pivoted the company, the direction of the company, in a way. And it's pretty exciting. And I asked him to come back on so he could share that with you. I think it's going to be beneficial to an awful lot of you listening to this. So that's going to be awesome. And that's coming up in a second. Before we do that, I just want to remind everyone, guys, we all have goals and missions in our companies and our business and our lives. And I set a goal this year of helping 100 people achieve their real estate goals. I want to help you do that. I want to coach you on a mentor you. Uh, but you got to reach out to me. I had— you have to identify yourself. I don't know who it is that it needs that help, but I know that a lot of people do. So, uh, that's my personal goal this year. I want to hit it and I need your help. So reach out if you need help in your business. If you're struggling with marketing, if you're starting struggling with sales, you're struggling with dispo, you're struggling with any part of your business, hiring, training, all of that, I'm here for you. I want to help you really supercharge your business. So reach out to me directly at Mike at juststartrealestate.com and we can hop on a call and see if I am able to help you. I can't help everybody. Let's just be honest, right? Some people are just maybe a little bit too early in the process and some people, maybe they, you know, they don't need me to mentor them. They just need a little bit of advice, right? And so I can help you with that on the phone. It's not like we're gonna get into a really deep, long relationship with every single person that needs help. But if I feel like I can provide tremendous, tremendous value to your company, I will tell you that, and hopefully we can work together and get you where you need to go. So reach out at mike@juststartrealestate.com and let's see if it's a good match. All right guys, here we go. Let's dive into the show with Paul Wakim. All right, Paul, thank you for being back on the show. It's awesome to have you here as always. It's been a while since we talked. Yeah, for sure. I'm excited to hear all the updates. I want to know what's going on in your life and obviously with Town Square and, uh, and get that get that information out there, 'cause I know there's been some exciting updates and some changes and some evolution and all that good stuff. And just in case someone's kind of jumping into this conversation midstream, let's take a step back. And if you don't mind, let's, as far as like you go, I really would like you to explain from a foundational level, what is Townsquare? Like, let's start there, right? What is Townsquare and why is it even in existence? Why did you create this software?

Yep. So my co-founder and I, uh, his name is Mitch. He and I originally started Townsquare back in 2020, right in the middle of the pandemic. Um, and we were working remotely and we were working on some other technology. We actually, unrelated to Townsquare, we had built an algorithm to predict who was going to sell their house next. Um, that is not what Townsquare does today. There are companies that do a much better job, uh, than we could have done. That are doing that today. But we built this algorithm, we did a couple things in the world of real estate investing. I pulled Mitch into the world of real estate investing with the idea of this algorithm. When the pandemic hit, when COVID hit, the data that we were using for that algorithm got messed up is the best way to put it. It was no longer accurate, no longer as usable. So we, we pivoted from a prediction investing company because we were using those predictions to buy and sell and wholesale and whole-tail homes, we pivoted to a pure real estate investing technology business where we would go out and acquire customers and offer them a product, offer them a tool. And that's really the, the foundational moment of Townsquare. Now, since October of 2020, we've been through many different iterations of the product, many different iterations of the, the business model, and today we are on pretty sure footing, thankfully, with the most recent iteration to no longer being a product, no longer being a tool for our customers, and rather being a full-blown disposition service that supplements your existing property marketing process, mainly for real estate investors and wholesalers who have properties to sell. So high level of the last 3 years. That's where we are.

Okay. And so it went from— and maybe correct me if I'm wrong, if I'm articulating this wrong— you went from a service to a— to, uh, I'm sorry, you went from a product to a service.

Is that fair? Okay, that's right.

Okay, so, so last time you were on the show, it was still in the product phase, and the tool, as I call it— there you go, it was a tool. It was a tool to use in your dispositions process, and now it's a full-blown dispositions kind of done-for-you model, right? Why, why the change? Why did you change? For people who got into it when we talked last and like, I love this, why did, why was that change made?

Yep. So in July of 2022, yeah, July of 2022, just over a year ago, we launched the original version of Townsquare, the tool, and we were doing it for a bunch of different reasons. We saw some other companies in the space that were offering similar tools, and, uh, after talking to you for a couple months, and a couple other advisors, we decided that offering a tool that allowed users to do some very complicated actions that usually take place in the real world, like JVs— the original iteration of Townsquare, the dispositions tool, was allowing you and I to JV, do form a joint venture agreement, and share buyers lists on, on the internet effectively. And it was a really cool idea. We got a lot of buzz from it. And it, it worked okay. But through many different iterations from July of 2022 until today, what we learned is that real estate investors who have a property to sell, they really only care about one thing. And that one thing is not how cool their tech stack is inside their business and how many bells and whistles each of those tech stack items have. It's just like we built such a complex software and we iterated on such a complex software that in the last 3 months, Mike, the big change has been from a tool to a service because we realized that simplicity is key. And the simplicity really comes down to real estate investors who are our clients. They're looking for one thing, and that's offers on their properties. If we can get you offers on your properties in the most simple, streamlined way possible, then it's better for us. It's better for you. You don't have to go out and learn a new process or a new software. So that's been the biggest learning over the last 4 years, really, but especially over the last year, year and a month or so.

Okay. So in the past, before 3 months ago, we would use this tool in our dispositions process to send out our deals and that kind of thing. So now, in the, in the sake of simplicity, is it simply a matter of logging into this, into the platform uploading a property that you want to disposition, or, you know, you want to, you want to sell, and then you guys take it over from there. And then how, how do I get those inquiries, or are you guys negotiating and, and talking on our behalf? Like, how, how and when do I start and stop my, my involvement?

Yep. So about 3 weeks ago— talk about iterating quickly and getting product out the door quickly— about 3 weeks ago, what you just described is exactly how it was, but About a month ago, we introduced this new program called Townsquare Enterprise, where users that had a significant volume of properties to sell could form a direct integration with our Boost service, our dispositions marketing service, which we call Boost. Okay. And that direct integration would allow us to capture information from a user's CRM from the system or processes where they currently house information about the properties they have for sale, and then automatically build the post with the property information displayed nicely in Townsquare and automatically push that deal out through our Boost Marketing service, which has some really interesting artificial intelligence stuff baked into it that we can talk about. But this is a long way of me saying we've even gone simpler than what you've just described, because now All Townsquare is, as of August 7th, is a way for you to interface your existing systems and processes, your CRM, with our Boost service. There is no more seller-facing aspect to the platform. You can't go on and build a post manually. You can't go on and pay for a Boost manually. The only way to interface with us is the very simple process of integrating your CRM and Townsquare kind of like a plugin for your CRM to take advantage of our Boost service, which is a supplement to your marketing that happens virtually instantly as soon as a deal meets specific criteria. So yeah, we have simplified things quite a bit to being just a plugin for your CRM with the sole purpose of getting you interest on your properties you have for sale.

How did you solve the problem of dozens of different software that people use. Like, there's got to be just an integration nightmare.

It can be, but think about Zapier. Like, Zapier, for anyone who's not familiar, is essentially a system that universally plugs in one system to another and acts as a go-between. We have effectively built the go-between, the Zapier, that connects your CRM, whatever it is, with Townsquare's Boost marketing system. System. Now, building that intermediary step, that universal connector, if you will, that was a little bit difficult, but I'll give Mitch a lot of credit. Mitch is brilliant, to say the least. Every single iteration of Townsquare since 2019, when we were building that algorithm, has been built by hand by Mitch. So he deserves a lot of credit for the significant effort that's involved in building that universal connector. But right, once that universal connector is built, CRMs at their core are are just data warehouses. They're just giant spreadsheets with a nice skin on top of it. So as long as we can access the data inside of the spreadsheet behind the scenes, our Universal Connector can process it and create posts and boost them automatically from that.

Do you have to go in on each user and, and do any custom anything? Like, I imagine people have different names or different ways they express different or the same things, right? Like even just something as simple as like seller name or first name of seller, you know what I mean? Like, is that, is that something you have to customize or is there to somehow your universal connector to sort of intuitively understand, you know, similar phrases?

Yeah. So it is something we have to do custom for everybody. And the process usually goes like you and I would have a call like this. You'd say, I'm interested. We'd sign the agreement for us to go in and build the universal connector. But after we have the agreement signed and everything, is moving in the direction of forming this integration, we do what we call an integration discovery call, where me and our developers get on a call with you or the customer's tech team, if there is a tech team, there doesn't have to be. And we go through your CRM and you say, here's the address, here's the description, here's the link to the photos, here's the asking price. And then here's any other information that we have. And then it's just up to us, we do all of the heavy development, it's not too much work, but we do all the development work to connect that spreadsheet that is your CRM to our universal connector. There is effort involved, but it's— we haven't faced any issues so far because really behind the scenes, a CRM is just a gigantic spreadsheet with a nice skin on it.

Totally. Okay. Okay. You said if it meets certain criteria. So is it— am I to understand once I am filling in blanks in my, in my CRM and once I fill in the final blank that that constitutes enough or the amount of information you need, it just goes straight into your system? Or is there like a go button or like, yes, I'm ready for like— or is it like literally I filling it all out, the only thing I don't have in there is my asking price. And as soon as I hit enter on my asking price, it just goes.

It could be either.

We—

again, everything is totally custom. Some users opt to add a field to their deal inside their CRM that is ready for Townsquare. And as soon as that field is checked as true, all of the data is pushed over to our system, or it could be automatic that as soon as these 15 fields are filled, it's automatically pushed over to Townsquare and our systems to be boosted.

Okay. And then are there any CRMs or any systems that people use that are just not part of your scope? Like they, like, for example, I, this is probably, maybe not, but I mean, some people are still using Google Sheets, right? They're, or they're still, they're still using something really archaic like a, you know, Excel sheet or something. Does that sort of keep them from using it, or is there a way to even integrate something like that?

As long as you have the data— there are 4 key data points that we need at a very minimum in order for this boosting process, uh, we call it AI-powered dispositions marketing, to take place. And those— if those 4 data points are stored somewhere on the internet that we can access, that our universal connector can access, then No, there is nothing stopping us. And those 4 data points are the address, the asking price, the description of the property, and photos of the property. Everything else we can automatically fill in through different API connections that we have formed. API is just a fancy way of saying another connector that reaches out from another really big spreadsheet of property data and pulls it in. So those 4 pieces of data and we can take care of the rest for you. Okay.

Okay, so who, who is now— and, and as of August 7th, I think you said is when this is all this, the newest is going to be rolled out. As of August 7th, who would you say your avatar is?

So we have a minimum threshold of 2 deals per month, 2 properties to sell per month. So any real estate investor, wholesaler, wholesaler, anybody who has at least 2 properties to sell each month is our target market.

Okay, so new investors, people who are doing, you know, less than 2 deals a month are not— they don't qualify. It's not— it's not who you're looking for.

I mean, you could sign up for the service and work your way into those 2 deals. But the way that our pricing is currently set up is that you have to pay for at least 2 boosts, which is that AI-powered disposition marketing that takes place behind the scenes. You have to pay for at least 2 each month.

Okay.

Okay.

Are you ready to talk about cost? Is that something you guys have revealed or are we going to— Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I'm asking you because I don't know the cost of this. So what is the cost of the minimum 2 boosts? And by the way, I assume every property you send, it's a, it's an individual fee. It's not like a monthly subscription where it's unlimited amount of properties. Is it something you pay per property then?

So it is a monthly subscription, but I'll explain how it works. So let's say you have a lot of our clients do 10 properties per month. They do 10 boosts per month through this system. We're working with some really high-level companies because we wanted to beta test this system before revealing it to the world. Wanted to beta test this system with some really volume-intensive companies. So we'll take somebody who has 10 properties per month that they want to sell. The way that we build the integration, all of that stuff happens, they have those 10 properties. The way that we do our billing is at the beginning of their agreement with us, which is a 6-month agreement. We take the price per boost, which at the 10 properties or more per month level, the price per boost is $79. So the contract is 6 months at $790 per month. Now, in that $790, we bake in what we call a boost buffer, which means if you go 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, or 15. We give you a 5-boost buffer. So you have up to 15 boosts for that same price each month. Then if you exceed that, there are some additional costs that we can get into as needed. But the boosting, the price of this integration is based on your expected volume of boosts each month at the outset of your 6-month agreement.

Okay.

At the 2 boosts per month, there is no boost buffer and we just charge $99 per boost. So at a minimum, it's $198 for 2 properties over 6 months.

Okay. And okay. And so tell me, tell me, but tell the audience too, because I have some idea, but they have none. What is it that you're doing for the $99? Well, let's just say we're at 2 deals a month, right? We're just in that, in that range. What are we What are you doing and what are we getting for that money?

Yep. So in this transitionary phase to this new world where we're doing things as a service rather than offering you an email tool or a text message tool to contact your buyers and sell your properties, right around this time that we were transitioning to this service-based business model is when all the stuff with ChatGPT and OpenAI and Anthropic and all these different artificial intelligence companies came out. And I like to say kind of jokingly, but kind of seriously, that Mitch, my business partner, and I, we are actively digging the rabbit hole of artificial intelligence deeper and deeper because we went full force into this world. It is my hobby whenever I'm not paying attention to real estate investing, which is rare, but I'm either paying attention to real estate investing or artificial intelligence. So I say all of that because whenever you get a property boosted. We have custom-built artificial intelligence on top of the OpenAI, which is ChatGPT, on top of their API that allows us to text, email, post on Facebook, post across social media, do paid digital ads, contact realtors, and do all of that automatically without really much human intervention. All of that is being run by artificial intelligence, and all of that with the express purpose of driving eyeballs back to your post on Townsquare. So the analogy that I like to use is if you're familiar with boosting a post on Facebook, it's very similar. You create a post and you pay Facebook for essentially eyeballs impressions. That is effectively what you're doing with us. We're just utilizing 5 or 6 marketing channels to get the word out and eyeballs back to your post on Townsquare from motivated buyers.

Got it.

Got it.

Just do the folks that you're reaching out to, the realtors and, and all the people you're reaching out to on, on behalf of the client, do they have to have already been a member or opted into Townsquare in some way? Or is Townsquare going out and finding people who are likely to be interested in a property whether they're— whether they've ever heard of Townsquare or not? You know what I mean?

In other words, do people have to be on your platform before they see So a buyer never needs an account to express interest in a property that has been posted. And the targets of buyers that we're going after are your buyers who know your brand and ideally have opted into receiving messages from you because we're acting essentially as a marketing service on your behalf. So they're usually opted in to receive messages from you and your, your properties. But then we're also going out and getting additional buyers and getting them to opt into our systems. We're doing the heavy lifting of being compliant and getting opt-in for text message and opt-in for emails. And I think that that's going to be one of the most valuable things that we accumulate through this whole process is a nationwide opted-in cash buyers list, not just some giant database of people who don't want to be spammed.

Yeah, for sure. Okay, so you're, you're using the existing clients' buyers list in addition to going out and trying to get people to opt into Townsquare to see it, more eyeballs.

In addition to our buyers list as well. So we have, we have our buyers list, yours, plus public records.

Is there any way— and again, these are not questions that I vetted with you, right? So if I make— if I ask a question that you're like, yeah, we can't talk about that, then I guess we can't. But, uh, is there any way for a person— okay, I just hear this, this conversation we're having, and I go, this sounds really great, um, I want to look into it. And then you say it's $99 for a boost, and I have to do at least 2 and you say, hey, we're going to use your buyers list, we're also going to use our buyers list. And I say to you as a potential client, great, how big is your buyers list? Like, what do you— what— how do you quantify or qualify your buyers list to your, to your clients? What, what can or should they know about your list?

Yep. So we have amassed about a 1.5 million person buyers list that are a combination of opted-in and unopted-in people. And whenever you bring a property to us in Detroit, for example, or somewhere in Michigan, for example, we go out and we advertise your property first to your buyers and then to our buyers that have opted in, and then we attempt to get opt-in from additional buyers. Okay. And it depends on the location. Obviously, we're not going to notify all 1.5 million people of a deal in Detroit if they're in San Francisco. Right, right, right.

Okay, fair enough. Now, if I'm listening to this as as, uh, let's just say a wholesaler who's doing pretty good volume, has a nice significant, you know, scaled-up mature business. Tell me why— this is very self-serving, right? Tell me why I would want to utilize your done-for-you service when I already have a fully operational, successful, talented dispositions team and/or person and/or process? Like, why would I hand over the reins to something that is working really, really well?

Yep. I'm so happy that you asked, Mike, and this is why you and I talk, uh, because you asked the perfect question. So whenever we made this transition to this service-based model, we thought, okay, we're going to do dispositions for you. That's going to be our tagline. And what we found is that if we went out into the market and we talked to professionals like yourself, that was the question everybody asked, is like, I have this whole team, Why would I ever hand off the reins to these two guys that say they've built artificial intelligence that's going to take over the dispositions world? And what we learned is that not only was that sales pitch incorrect, but also the execution was incorrect. If you rely only on us to do all your dispositions marketing, it doesn't work nearly— it works, but it doesn't work nearly as well as if we combine and supplement your dispositions marketing with our Boost service. I'll give you an example. There's a beta tester of this new program, uh, this integration program that we've discussed here, uh, out of Phoenix. And he had a boost, and he came to us and said, I want you guys to boost this property, and here's my buyers list. In that area, we also had a couple thousand buyers that we were going to target as well. So we combined his buyers list plus ours, and at the end of the day, we brought 7 offers in on his property. 4 of of those 7 offers were buyers that were on his buyers list that never received any marketing from him or said they never received any marketing from him. He brought 2 buyers from his marketing. So we brought 7 people, he brought 2, total of 9. But 4 of the 7 people that we brought never saw or said they never saw his marketing. So that was the aha lightbulb moment of even if it's just a second little nudge to a motivated it's worth combining your existing systems and processes with our boosting system because it's a supplement. We like to say it's like a turbocharger for an engine. It's just something you add on to an existing engine that guarantees you're going to get better results than you would without it.

Got it. When you send out a property through your process on our behalf, is it, um, Is it branded with Townsquare? And the reason I'm asking is, if I have a list and I give you my list and you do what you do and I do what I do, are they going to get 2 emails from me, or are they going to get one from me and one from you?

The latter. One from me, one for you.

Okay, so, so it will look like somebody else is marketing my property then, or is there something on there that says, hey, this is in conjunction with, with Mike Simmons and his company. Okay, so there's some connection there.

Yeah. So let's say somebody expresses interest via text message. We don't include a photo of the property or anything via text message. Yeah. And somebody says, yes, I'm interested. As soon as they say, yes, I'm interested, we then send them a link. The link that we send them is the same link that's in the email that we send them. And in that link It's your post, your branding, your marketing, your dispositions manager, phone number, email address, all of that stuff. It's on the Townsquare.com website.

Okay.

But to answer your question, everything up until they click for more information looks like it's coming from Townsquare. Okay. But whenever they're actually expressing interest, everything is, hey, Mike is handling this property, or Connor is handling this property, or John Smith is handling this property. Right. Everything is pushed over to you guys. Okay. So that's good.

The next rabbit hole I wanted to go down was when there is interest, you guys— and just stop me if I'm wrong, but you guys take it— Townsquare takes it to the point of getting someone who identifies themself and says, I'm interested in this property, and then it goes to the client and their process handles the rest of it. You're not negotiating a price on anyone's behalf. Okay. Okay. That's important. That's right. That's important for people to understand, right? Like, because obviously there— I mean, it could be great if somebody just says, I just want you to do it, but it also could be a huge problem if Connor is negotiating and you're negotiating. It's like, we, you know, we have to be coordinated there. So that's good, that's good to clarify that point, because I think I would want to know that very much if I was listening to this.

Yeah, definitely. Yeah, again, going back to the Facebook analogy, if you pay Facebook or Instagram for a boosted post on their platform, the The result is Facebook isn't negotiating, you know, if you have like a dresser that's for sale and you boost that post on Facebook Marketplace, Facebook isn't going to negotiate back and forth with the guy who's going to bring his pickup truck and pick it up from you. They're just getting his eyes on it. Same thing with us.

All right, cool. So what are the channels again for the $99? It's either sending out an email, I get that. You've mentioned text.

Yep.

And then what in addition to that?

Yep. So our system automatically picks what is the best marketing channel based on a location, based on historical data. Um, but of the 6 channels, or we have 6 channels to pick from that our system automatically picks from, and that's text, email, posting on social media, paid digital advertising, meaning we pay out of the money that we get from you that for your boost, we pay for digital advertising in that area, direct Realtor outreach, and then we even have people that if a buyer calls and says, I'm interested, and they find our phone number, we'll pick up the phone and say, hey, this is what you want to look at, your post on Townsquare.

Got it. Got it. Okay, great. And is there any interaction with me as a client and Townsquare in terms of the platform? Or, because you said it's all coming out of the CRM, it's all coming out of my CRM. Is there any need for me to go on the Townsquare platform as someone who has properties to offer?

No. So we're actually eliminating, by the time this show comes out, the seller-facing portion of Townsquare where you traditionally would go on for the last 3 years, really go on and build a post and publish it to the marketplace and go through a bunch of different steps to get your post on the marketplace. All of that is being totally wiped off the face of the earth because we have just heard from, I mean, even people on your team, Mike, people that you've connected us with, it's like it's such a cumbersome process to build an email, build the text message template, build all this other stuff that you guys do for marketing for your dispositions process, post on Facebook, do everything that you do that we say you should keep doing, and then come to Townsquare and essentially repeat that process on Townsquare. So to answer your question explicitly, no, there is no interaction with Townsquare. Once that integration is set up, ideally you forget about Townsquare and you just let the buyers be dropped right back into your CRM for your team to act on.

Got it, got it. Okay, that makes sense. And I, and I see, I see that. I do see the evolution because I've been behind the scenes on a lot of this for, for going forward for the last couple years.

Yeah.

Okay, great. So if somebody is, is new and doesn't have that 2 deals per month kind of, kind of threshold, they can still sign up and work their way to that point. Is there a version or is there a feature of Townsquare now that is free, or is it all—

can—

is it still a matter of— I don't, I don't know how to ask this effectively. I know what I'm trying to get at. Is it still a matter of something can be on Town Square without being boosted, I guess is what I'm asking?

Yeah, great question. And the answer now used to be yes. Today it's no.

Okay.

Um, everything must be boosted. And we did that because we were seeing just like no traffic from posts that were not boosted. We would see some people, we would see some offers, But there was just such a night and day, black and white difference between posts that were boosted. I mean, obviously, we're trying to do this service for you. It better be night and day. It better be black and white. But no, we've opted for only boosting. Okay. That said, for people that have a very high volume of deals, but some of them don't want to be boosted, like if you opted and you said, I have 50 deals, we're negotiating a contract right now with a user who has 50 deals they want to sell each month. Maybe 30 of them will be boosted, but the other 20 they just want to post and have available. We'll work through a solution with you there.

Gotcha. Okay, so everything's a boost. And is it— so it's a 6-month contract, just to be clear?

That's correct.

Minimum is like 6 months. Okay. And it's based off— so it's $99 times 6 months, or is there some sort of a premium, some sort of a 6-month cost, or is it just strictly $99 $198 times 2 times 6. Is that, is that the formula basically for coming up with the 6-month cost?

Yep, it's exactly what you just said. So if somebody came to us, we'll just walk through the hypothetical scenario. If somebody came to us and you said, Mike, or you said, Paul, I have, uh, I have 2 deals that I want to boost each month, I'd say, okay, Mike, it'll be $198 per month. We'll build the integration with your CRM, it's included in your contract. You'll pay us monthly, but you have to say you'll pay us monthly for 6 months at $998 per month. Same thing if you go up to 60+ deals per month, we give you a set price per month. And then you agree to pay that over 6 months. And we, we ask people to pay 6 months because there is some effort, some lift, development power involved in us building that initial integration. But once it's built, we're off to the races together.

Okay. And then you mentioned at 10 deals per month, there's this buffer zone. What if I say 2 deals per month and my business explodes, or I have a month where I just got 10 deals and I just— it's unusual for me and I need to boost 10 that month.

Yeah. So we're, we're your partners throughout this whole process. If something like that happens, we're happy to work with you and renegotiate your contract and adjust things accordingly. But we have learned over the past 2, 3, 4 years that if we apply a very rigid structure to this industry, industry. We've thought about it, but like, it just doesn't work if you apply a very rigid structure because it's so fluctuating month to month. It is. So we're happy to work with anybody in a totally custom manner.

Okay, fantastic. Well, listen, this was super helpful for me because I think a lot of my knowledge of what was going on was 2 to 3 weeks old, and I— and now I'm learning that knowledge is, is now outdated, right? It's not, it's not true anymore with what's happening now. Is there anything before we get done, before wrap up that you want to leave people with? Any parting words? Anything that we should have covered that maybe I didn't ask?

I wouldn't say anything that is intentionally specifically promoting Townsquare, but one thing I did want to mention that I thought you and I could riff on or that you would have some additional thoughts on is what we have learned over the last 4 years, really, Mike, and in the last 2 years since you and I met and you have seen all of this happen is is that simplicity is where the actual value is. Building a very complex software full of a bunch of different features— I touched on this at the beginning of our call here— but it just, it hasn't worked. Like, I mean, it worked okay, but our business runs so much more smoothly and our customers have been so much happier if we just opt for simplicity. So I would part with just anybody who is running a real estate investing business right now. You have access to hundreds of companies like ours that do acquisition software and prediction and CRMs that have all these bells and whistles. And if I've learned anything over the last 3, 4 years of doing this is that things are working because we have dumbed it down, made it so simple. And that's from the product, the service that we offer, to our team. Everything has been so much better because of the simplicity that we've injected into the entire business.

Yeah, that's so true and universal. And I say it all the time, I kind of preach that internally in my company. When thoughts or ideas are brought up, I just, I, I need things to be simple. And it's mostly, a lot of times for entrepreneurs, and you're an entrepreneur, you know, you talk to a lot of real estate investors as well. We have a lot going on. You know, there's a lot of moving parts in a real estate business and a lot of things you're doing. Um, if things— the simple— the more simple things can remain, the better, because I think simple is also scalable, right? Simple is scalable. And so we all want to scale. So yeah, I think it's great, great, uh, great advice, great information, and a great service. So I, I'm obviously here, I'm with you all the way. I, you know, we've, we've talked a lot over the last few years about about, uh, new features and pivot points and that kind of thing. So I think you guys are on the right track, and I'm excited about it. I'm excited about how this year's— the rest of this year is going to go, and all of next year. Are there any major changes in the works for the next 2 weeks, or am I safe that 2 weeks from now I'll know how Town Square works?

You're safe, you're safe. Um, I, I like to say this, it's like a very common saying in the world of artificial intelligence. Um, again, I nerd out on this stuff, but the common saying is that AI is as bad as it's ever going to get today, meaning that it's always going to get better because we're relying so much on artificial intelligence and we're so deep in that world and we're injecting it into our business as much as we can behind the scenes. There's going to be lots of improvements. Townsquare today is as bad as it's ever going to get. It's only going to get better.

That's a great way of putting it. It's so funny. That's great. That's awesome. I love it.

Thank you.

I love that. Thank you. Awesome. Well, listen, Paul, thanks for coming on again and sharing the updates and the changes. I think they're pretty exciting for people. And, uh, anytime you can make something simpler and more effective, that's a winning strategy. So, uh, good on you for doing that.

Thanks, Mike. Thank you for everything you've done for us over the past couple years. I'm looking forward to continuing talking to you, as always.

Same here. Can't wait, man. Love it. Thanks.

Thanks for your time.

All right, bye-bye. All right, there you go. Done-for-you dispositions. Uh, Paul is a great guy in Townsquare. Is a great company. And full transparency, I am an advisor, but I'm an advisor to the company because I believe in what they're doing. I believe in Paul Wakim and his team, and I believe in the product. So go check it out, guys. It can be a tremendous, uh, addition to what you're already doing. Like Paul said, it's not really designed to take you out of that position. It's designed to supercharge your dispositions. And believe me, more people should try to supercharge their dispositions dispositions. Uh, it's taken for granted a lot of times, that part of the business. And so go check it out, Supercharge Your Dispositions. Make more money, grow your business, be more profitable. That's the name of the game. All right, we'll see you next time.