Phytonutrients: the Key to Your Health, with Dr. Deanna Minich

What we don't see a lot of in nutrition is phytonutrients. And these are defined as the non nutritive, meaning that they don't give calories, but they are working in the body in a variety of different ways.

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Hello and welcome back to another episode of Five Journeys podcast, Live like youe Matter. Dr. Deanna Minik is our guest today. I am so excited. I was literally fangirling when I saw you at the A4M conference last week. And she's an internationally recognized teacher, author, scientist, speaker and artist. She has more than 20 years of diverse, well rounded experience in the fields of nutrition and functional medicine, including clinical practice, research, product formulation, writing and education. As we say in Boston, she's wicked Smart. She's authored six books on health and wellness and over 40 scientific publications. Her passion is teaching a whole self approach to nourishment and bridging the gaps between science, spirituality and art and medicine. Welcome, Deanna.

Wow, so great to be here with both of you.

Yeah. I mean, one of the things that you teach, which I love, is eating the rainbow is like, is your hallmark. And it's brilliant because all the phytonutrients. Everything that you get from the rainbow is just everything that we need.

Do you remember that ad? I can't remember what it was for when we were kids. You are what you eat from your head down to your feet. It was for some product. I can't remember the product, but it was this jingle on TV when I was a kid and I grew up in the 70s and it's so, it's so resonate for me and I say to people, you are what you eat from your head down to their feet. They're like, that's brilliant. I'm like, it's not mine. It was a marketing thing from the 70s, but it's really true.

That is clever. That is clever. Yeah. So many of those, those jingles do ring true. Well, you know, I went with the rainbow because I really like to embrace science because that's my training, but then also art and I was thinking, what is scientific but also very artful and sustainable and tracks to many different people throughout the lifespan. Like, I'm not just dedicating my message to a certain slice, but the whole gamut. Because I do think that the act of eating is something that unifies us as people. Everywhere on the planet, no matter. No matter where we travel, people are eating different kinds of foods, different degrees, different timing, different. You know, we all have different reasons, but how do we bring people together? And what I have seen throughout my nutrition training is that, you know, eating has been used to divide people. And, you know, it's like, well, I'm this, you're not this, and therefore we are separate, and I have a better way of eating. So that was really what I was looking for, was what was tried and true, what was scientific and almost irrefutable, and what was also sustainable, artful, and spoke to the large majority of people in ways that would change their lives. And that's where I really settled in on, was the rainbow. Eating the rainbow. I know it sounds simple, but there's a lot underneath that I think of you.

There's certain meals we have that I think of you because it's all brown. And I'm like, oh, God, we need some color here. It's killing me how monochromatic the meal ended up as. And not because it's all curry. It's all just baked potatoes and something else baked and baked. Everything's baked and it's all brown. So I think of you often when those meals roll out. I'm like, we need to transform this.

Well, brown is part of the rainbow I do include. So I have an Eat the Rainbow tracker. And what's interesting is I do have all of the many different bright, vivid colors like red, orange, yellow, green, blue, purple. I also include brown, especially when I'm talking about fiber and elimination and bran. And really looking at plants in more of a. I would say a textured way. And even cocoa. A lot of the flavonoids, you know, coffee has merit as well for certain people.

Just for people at home, more, really. Can you talk a little bit about what are carotenoids? What are like, phytonutrients? What do you get from the major color groups? Just so people get a sense of.

Why we care and what impact it has on aging.

Really, it's different between green and red and yellow. And why do we even bother? Because why don't we just eat all red and we'll be fine?

Yeah, that's a good question. So usually when people think of nutrition, they think of what I call the three musketeers protein Carbohydrate and fat. And I think a lot of the energy in the nutrition field is spent on those three macronutrients. It's kind of like, do you eat high protein or low protein? What about fat? What about saturated fat? I mean, just think of how much time and energy is consumed by the act of what we consume in the way of those three things. And of course there's a lot of complexity to those, so I don't want to discount that. But it just. And because they contribute calories, those three nutrients, I think that's why there's been so much emphasis. Separate from that there are the micronutrients, which would be the vitamins and the minerals. And even within minerals you have macrominerals, microminerals, ultra trace. I mean, it's really beautiful. I studied a lot of these things in school. I mean there are textbooks written on these things. What we don't see a lot of in nutrition is the third category, which is phyto nutrients, Phyto P H Y T O plant based nutrients. And these are defined as the non nutritive. It's interesting how they're classified as non nutritive, meaning that they don't give calories, but they are working in the body in a variety of different ways. So there are thousands, there are many more phytonutrients than there are vitamins and minerals. Many more phytonutrients than there are the protein, carbohydrate and fat variants. I mean we're talking like 10,000 and I bet we have even more that we haven't even discovered because we're just really at the tippy top of this. So when I went to school to study carotenoids, you know, there's a whole phytonutrient family tree and carotenoids are just one part of that family tree. You also have flavonoids, you have alkaloids, you have so many of these other classes of phytonutrients. So for a small sliver of my life, I had the opportunity to study one little piece of the phytonutrient family called the carotenoids. Now in the carotenoid family you have 700, at least 700 different compounds. I mean, that's just huge. And most people, when they hear carotenoid, they think of is that carotene, is that carrots? And the answer is yes. Most people, when they think carotenoid, what will come to mind is beta carotene and beta Carotene gets the limelight because it is the pro vitamin A carotene. And for so many years, I think in nutrition, many people thought that those phytonutrients, really the only purpose was to get vitamins or other more nutritive substances. So beta carotene got a lot of attention and not the 699 other carotenoids that there are out there, whether it's lycopene or lutein or zeaxanthin. And gosh, there are so many beta cryptoxanthin. So, yes, carotenoids are vast and we've just touched the surface of them.

So we live in Massachusetts and people are really busy. And so what I'm looking for is how do we make it meaningful, effective and manageable, sustainable? So when you're talking about all of these things, one of the questions that popped into my mind is when you have phytonutrients in powder or pill form. And I know we've skipped an entire conversation, so I'm acknowledging, I'm like way skipping ahead and we'll backtrack. Are those meaningful or are they useless? Where do they fall on the. When people are like, oh, I have my reds and my greens in a powder form, I throw it in my smoothie, they may not have time to do a blended shake. They are, it's like grab and go. Are those meaningful or not? Where do they land?

I think they are meaningful. You know, it's better to have something rather than nothing. So if the best that people can do, again, rather than get into extremes of all or nothing and creating stress, I do think that they fall on the spectrum of the many things and the many ways that we can be getting in plant foods. So. And I'd like to talk, Wendy, about what plant foods mean exactly. Because most people think, oh, it's just fruits and vegetables, maybe whole grains. Well, it's a lot more vast than that. There's a whole universe of different plants. And people may actually be getting some of these phytonutrients but not even realizing it. So we can unpack that a bit. But just to speak to your question, I do think that powders are valid. They're going to be more expensive for some people. We. Because they tend to be concentrated. I have concerns about them being organic or not. So if you're concentrating plant powders, whatever else is in that plant, you're going to be concentrating. So if there are pesticides in there, you could be concentrating it if that was not measured ahead of time. Before it was through the manufacturing process. So I do think it's good. The only thing is that those powders are human made. Right? So there's a human behind the scenes. And I know because I've been in that spot of formulation where I'll sit with a piece of paper and try to figure out, okay, what needs to go in this formula. Let's have this plant, this active, this compound so many times. A lot of those powders don't have the complexity that nature provides in all of those ratios that nature thinks is best. So you get a human behind the scenes perhaps having high levels of maybe beta carotene or certain purple pigments, you know, so things may not be in all of the ratios that we normally would find those things in nature. So we have to acknowledge that. But I think there can be some of those very well formulated powders in the market. You just have to know what you're buying and be smart about it.

For me, the biggest in terms of phytonutrients, I still remember my first time listening to Jeff Bland talk about that. And the thing that he always talks about is, okay, difference between organic and non organic food. It's not so much the vitamins, minerals, nutrients. Yes, we depleted the soil, so of course that's part of it. But the real difference is do the plants have to fight or are they part of a. Are they chemically protected, chemically neutered? Yeah, the phytonutrients protect the plant and if the plant is grown organically, there's a lot more phytonutrients available to people. The non organic stuff, besides having pesticide in it doesn't have to fight. So for me, that was big revelation when I heard that, because just plain big picture vitamin, you don't see that much of a difference. Unless I'm wrong.

Yeah, there are some studies that show conflicting results on that. So in many cases, you know, vitamin C content can be different in organically grown versus conventionally grown produce. It really depends because those pesticides, insecticides and herbicides can dispense, displace some of the nutrient content. So in effect, just by way of matter and the physical matter of a vegetable or fruit, you can displace some of those things. But Jeff is right. I mean, that's the whole concept of xenohormesis, that a stressed plant creates compounds that are actually helpful for our stress in our bodies at the cellular level. So yes, and that is actually David Sinclair's work. He had come out, I think back in 2005, talking about this concept of xenohormesis, you know, he put a very sophisticated term on something that has been acknowledged in traditional growing and gardening and medicine for some time. And it makes a lot of sense that I really like how science is catching up with common sense and because so many people need science in order to. And here I am a scientist speaking like this. But I do think that we need numbers, we need data, we need research oftentimes to quell our mind and our intellect into knowing that truly it will make more sense for me to spend more money on organically grown food because I'm getting this xenohormetic compound to help me with my aging process. So there are so many different drivers of people's behavior and purchases. So it's good that science is catching up.

I'd love to bring aging in now because I mean, we talk all about our book with Dirty Girl and talking about toxins and ditching them because all of these degenerative diseases, you cannot draw a straight line, but you can draw a nice wavy line from your genetics to your epigenetics, the food you're intaking, your antibiotics and in the food that you're eating. If you're exposed to hormones and toxins and things, herbicides, pesticides, insecticides that are altering your microbiome and pro cancer agents, that that's impacting your risk of disease and minimizing healthy aging. I mean, it's not leading to healthy aging. It's actually chipping away at that.

Very well said, Wende. Yeah. And this is a topic that you and I are both very passionate about. And I think you gave a talk on that just recently, right?

Yes, ma'. Am.

Well, one of the things that can help with environmental toxin load because, you know, we can't change the planet to a great degree, what's out there in food, air and water is going to infiltrate into our bodies, so is the planet, so becomes our bodies. But what we can do and what the science is showing us is that having better nutrient reserves can offset the inflammatory cascade, the oxidative stress, the DNA damage that a lot of those toxins can impart. So we may not be able to control the outside, but we can control the inside. And there are many different aspects. You know, if we're just thinking about environmental toxicants, we're thinking about avoidance, doing the best we can to mitigate or at least reduce some level of exposure. Right. By choosing organically grown food, making sure that we have purified water, all of those things, and even sweating you know, I was checking with my husband recently because we have a sauna. You know, we do have. We did make that investment because quite honestly, the literature on sweating and removing heavy metals and other types of environmental toxins, it's quite good, it's convincing. So I do think we have to be thinking about all portals of getting things out of the body. And what brings plants into this discussion is that plants provide us with so much in the way of buffering us from these toxins. So one of the first things that they can do is that they can bind. So if we think of chlorophyll, which is in. It's what makes plants green, that chlorophyll is so important for binding things that we might be taking in. So if we have a grilled hamburger, let's just say, you know, summer's approaching, we go to a barbecue, we can't avoid having some kind of grilled protein of some type, you know, insert, whatever that is. Well, the grilling is not so good. You know, you get heterocyclic amines. You can get a lot of different types of carcinogens that form with that browning process. However, you can block the uptake or at least reduce the extent of the damage from those compounds by having something that is rich in chlorophyll or something plant based. And that's even Dr. David Heber's work at UCLA from many years ago, where it was a hamburger study. He actually did this very acute meal study. He fed people hamburgers. He tracked their postprandial or after the meal levels of different inflammatory compounds, and they went up. And then he did the same burger, but now with half of an avocado. And what he saw as a result of that is a flatline of those same inflammatory compounds that had appeared before. So we can buffer, we can eat smarter. I call that eating smarter. Because there are certain things that people will just continue to eat no matter what. So it's about how do we complement the things that we may want to have with other things that can negate the potential downside. So plants are really good for that reason. They can bind, they can sequester. And of course, we don't want to leave the gut microbiome out of this, because the gut microbiome, if we have a good, healthy gut microbiome, those bugs can also block the uptake of things like heavy metals. There's some good research for that. The gut microbiome together with plants is like a one plus one is three synergistic approach. Because the gut microorganisms also like to chew up a lot of those phytonutrients to give even more potent metabolites that then signal the body's processes related to aging. Right. So I feel like there's a web going on in the body, and it starts with, you know, there's a planetary web, what we're taking in. But then there's also our inner universe that we have more control over to some extent. Right. We may not change the foods that we eat, but we can change how we cook them, when we eat them. The timing, the stress response, the thoughts that we have when we're taking in.

Those foods and the people we eat them with.

Yeah.

In the community.

And how much cilantro we add to our mess.

Oh, Lisa.

A great binding agent, cilantro.

This is a moral dilemma, Deanna, Because I have struggled with my metals. I am, like, loyal to my metals, but I despise cilantro unless it's hidden. You know, I feel like it should be like garlic. It's not overwhelming the flavor. It's there, but not overwhelming. And he could just eat the straight cilantro. And sometimes I find cilantro growing in our garden.

Really? What a surprise. It's really good for you.

The good thing about nature is that there's just not one plant for all things, you know, substitute another leafy green. And, you know, what helps with heavy metals is actually to have essential minerals. You know, back to those minerals like zinc and iron and calcium, magnesium, because they have a similar chemical structure, they actually compete with heavy metals for uptake, absorption, even metabolism and receptor activity.

So.

So I would say if you're concerned about heavy metals. Yeah, sweat them out, try to avoid them. But most of all, buffer the body. Make sure that we have enough in the way of minerals to ward off a lot of those heavy metal effects because they kind of look alike in the body.

I think our favorite time is when our kids make a sandwich outside.

Sandwich.

So they. Some lettuce.

Sorrel. Sorrel season.

Right now we have spinach coming up already. And tie it up with chive and make an actual sandwich out of it.

Oh, how cute.

I just think about what the nutritional. How dense that nutrient dense it is because it's all organic. It's freshly there. They don't actually wash anything. So the microbiome is really happy. So, yeah, it's the best.

Well, it's good that you mentioned the microbiome, too, because one of the things we get from plants and what your kids are getting from that sandwich, so to speak, is would also be the microorganisms of the plants. And there was a study some time ago where they looked at an organically grown apple versus a conventionally grown. And there was something on the order of like 100 million microorganisms on that apple, you know, and most were concentrated at the stem and the calyx. So what had been with that plant the longest? So I think that that's one of the undiscovered, unacknowledged pieces of plants, is that it's not just the fiber, the minerals, the vitamins, the phytonutrients, but what about the microorganism and all of the population that it brings along for the ride? And especially if your kids are just getting that right out of the soil, just kind of picking it. How amazing is that? Because so much of what we're eating has been sterilized.

Yeah, I wish. We. I think we have to wrap up, unfortunately.

I know. I was thinking maybe we'll do two parts, but I think we have to probably have to move. So I want to make sure people can find you and that you tell everyone all the things, the sort of deets about the Eat the Rainbow Toolkit and the book. You have a bunch of books and the rainbow diet recipes. Can you just tell people a little about how to find it?

Everything I have is on my website, which is my name, deannaminick. D E A N N A M I n I c-h.com so I have a bunch of information there. So I have a blog, which is more sciencey. And then I have a tab that says resources. And if you go to the resources tab, there are a bunch of free downloads which would be the Eat the Rainbow Toolkit. There would be a food and mood tracker. There are all kinds of shopping lists and things that people can download and use as they would like. And then I also have a bunch of events. You know, one of the things that I love about this time is that things are moving into more expansive, I would say connecting time to some extent. We're back and I'm doing a. I would say I'm. Well, I'm doing a retreat. I'm doing a five day retreat at the Omega Institute this September. So I'm super jazzed about that and just doing lots of more health professional type lectures. But then also for everybody, you know, I. Again, I like to bring in all different kinds of people. So yeah, feel free to go into the website, Deannamenick.com, download whatever you'd like to. You can join my social media group which is much more interactive and conversational. It's nourish your whole self community. It's on Facebook. So I've been fostering that group over some years now since I did the Detox Summit. So we do programs on there and sometimes I just do free programs to bring people's awareness into certain areas.

It's amazing.

Thanks. Deanna, thanks for joining us for another episode of the Five Journeys podcast Live like youe Matter. Great to have you on.

Thanks for having me inspire and empower.

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