Juggling Motherhood and Dentistry

Hey, dental associates and new practice owners. Welcome to the Associates on Fire podcast. Powered by Practice cfo. This is the podcast that teaches you what you never learned in dental school, the financial side of dentistry. We cover topics from planning for ownership, buying a practice, to student loans, taxes, and all things financial for the hungry to learn. Dental Associate. So let's light it up.

Welcome everybody, to another episode of the Associates on Fire podcast. We have a special guest today on a very specific subject and I'm just going to kick it off with what that subject is. The subject is Mothers in Dentistry Today. And I have on the show Dr. Grace Yum. Dr. Yum, welcome to the program.

Thank you, Wes. I'm excited to be here. Thanks for having me.

Dr. Yum is an experienced podcaster, much more experienced than me, judging by the number of episodes that she has and some of the recognition on her podcast. What is the name of your podcast? Is it Mommies in Dentists? Mommy Dentist in Business podcast?

Yep. It is straightforward. Mommy Dentist in Business. It's actually the name of the Facebook group. We have a private Facebook group of nearly 10,000 of us. And I'm also an author. So the two books on Amazon you'll find are also titled Mommy Dentist in Business with subtitles or subheadings. So you can check it out there. Lots of great resources for mothers in dentistry.

Now, you started off, now I think you're doing this full time. Now you're overseeing this, this, this group called Mommy, Mommy Dentist in Business, which if we go with the acronym, which you'll probably hear me use it throughout the episode for everybody listening, mdib. Mommy Dentist In Business. Now, if I'm correct, you're doing that full time these days, right, Dr. Young?

I am. I am. So you'll either hear it as mdib, some people call it M Dibs, some people call it Mommy Dibs and a lot of different spinoff names. I started it in June, let's see, June of 2017. So we're almost in five years in a few weeks. And it has been a passion project, really passionate about it. I started when I was still practicing dentistry full time with two locations at Rapido Ortho specifically. I was on the verge of opening my third startup practice.

And Onawim created this group. And since then it's taken over my life. And it got to the point where I thought to myself, if I don't give it a hundred percent attention, I might regret it. And at the rate it was going at warp speed of growth, I couldn't just leave it be as a passion project anymore. I really needed to follow through and build on it and came to a decision to sell my practices, which was a very difficult decision because it was very much, it is very much part of who I am and started these businesses before I even had children. So they were kind of like my first kids, you know. So it's, it's kind of funny to say that, but I think if you're a practice owner out there and you're listening, you would very much agree that when you do a startup scratch practice or even buy practice, you put so much time and energy and I call it your love, sweat and tears. Blood, sweat and tears.

It's very much a big part of your identity.

I can agree to that. Having started practice cfo, it takes a, I always use the term a pound of flesh to really get the business to a point where it's running effectively and I'm still working on that. There's still a lot to be working on as the company grows and the industry changes and needs change. And you always want to innovate and make sure you're, you're at your, your best in terms of the service you're providing and, and all of that. And, and you did that for how many years before you sold?

I want to say 13 years.

Okay, so you're a seasoned vet as a practice owner and judging by the website and all the resources you provide, there's seminars, there's podcasts, you have your books, you have your Facebook group. And judging by the amount of activity I can see on there, this is a, this is a growing organization and I can understand why it's taking a full time position for you in as you've pivoted into this full time, because there's clearly a demand. Did you find that surprising at all, just how strong the demand was when you started mdib?

Yes, definitely surprised. And people ask me, is this what you envisioned? People ask me what was my motivation? People ask me all kinds of questions about why did you do this? And the, the truth is it all grew very organically and I didn't expect this at all.

However.

Part of my personality, even as a practice owner, as a young dentist, for all you associate dentists or new dentists listening, my personality has always been, I want to be the best at whatever I do. And I'm a very competitive person by nature. And right out of dental school I was like, I'm going to be the best pediatric dentist, hands down. I only wanted to be the best. I wanted the best for myself. I wanted the best of everything in my life. I wanted to go on the best vacations, I wanted to go to the best resorts, I wanted the best education, I wanted everything the best. I said, if you're not going to get the best, then what's the point?

But.

And in everybody, I mean, it sounds exhausting, but that is my POV point of view is what's the point if you're going to half? And I don't want to cuss on your podcast, but if you're going to do things halfway, what's the point? And why even bother doing it at all? So you either go in all out, guns a blazing, or don't do it at all. And that's how I even raise my kids. If you're not going to show up and do your best, I'm not paying for this. You want tennis lessons, you want piano, you want that, you want this, then be the best practice at it. And if you don't do it, we're not going anymore. End of story. And so I have a very, like black and white perspective on things. And.

I never knew I was going to have two huge dental practices with seven associates. I built out my first practice envisioning it was just going to be me and my five dental chairs. And I didn't have this expectation of, oh, I'm going to have, you know, all these people working for me.

But as I kept going and going, it kept growing and growing. And one I would say feedback or piece of information for business owners or entrepreneurs is never stop.

Thinking about your next move. Don't be complacent where you are, because once you're complacent, you're going to lose your first place spot. Okay, if you want to be first place all the time, or you're striving to be first place, you got to think about what's going to keep you there. You know, you don't see Roger Federer not practicing anymore because he's number one. You know, like, there's always someone who's going to be bigger, always someone who's going to be better, always someone who's going to be faster. So how do you position yourself and keep your first place spot? And I never let the ball drop. You know, I was always thinking about what am I going to do to transition? So me starting 12 years ago, marketing wasn't the same. There was no Google Ads, click clicks and Facebook ads and funnels. And if I didn't evolve and I didn't keep my practice up to date, I'd have easily slid, right? Because as the market changes and as patients change and the way they look for you and business, business changes, you can't stay the same. Like, you can't. And so that has always been my mentality. And so even with this Facebook group, what started for fun evolved into all these different things. And I was like, well, why bother doing this if I'm not gonna make it the best? Make it the best for my community, make it the best for my moms, make it the best place that I can make it to be. And if I didn't put a hundred percent effort into it, I would have just said woulda, shoulda, coulda, and it would have just been another Facebook group. So that was my mentality. I got to the point where I was like, you know what.

Before I open my third location, let me really think this through. Been there, done that. I could easily do another startup, okay? But this Facebook group, which has become an online business with a subscription based model, is a new business for me. It's a new business model. I don't have another business in which I can benchmark off of like I. A dental office. Yeah, you can, you can see what other dentists are doing and benchmark and see what, you know your overhead supposed to be. And you need to see where your ranges are. You need to know what your fixed cost, you need to know your P and L. You need. There's a lot of things you need to know about dentistry, and once you learn it, you can can do it. With the Facebook business, there's no benchmarking. I'm creating my own rules as I go, and I'm making up my own rules as I go, which gives me a lot of freedom to be creative and entrepreneurial, which really feeds my soul. However, I think that, you know, if I didn't explore it, I would have regretted it. And now that I've really dealt with, like delved 100% into it, I have zero regrets. And for me, I can always next year go and start another practice. You know, like, it doesn't mean I can't do it again, you know, and people were asking me, oh my God, you know, you sold. Were you not doing well? Were you sick? You know, is business bad? Like, what's going on? And I'm like, none of the above, none of the above. And I'm not going to let other people judge me or get in the way of my own business. So for listeners, you know, I challenge you to create a life that you love.

Because if you don't love what you're doing, you're in the wrong biz.

You got to find something that you love because you will be tortured then. And. And guess what? When you're not loving it, it shows. Your patients are not going to want to come back. Your employees are going to want to, you know, go to another job if you're miserable, don't do this. And just because you spent all this money on your education and, oh, I can't find something else because I'm, you know, above, you know, water or whatever that expression is, and saying, I have so much debt. I get it. But you can't live like this and be happy because it trickles into your marriage. It trickles into how you raise your children. It trickles into how your friendships are. Nobody wants to be with a Debbie Downer. Your friends are going to ditch you as much as they love you. They're going to get to be like, dude, every time we get together, all you do is complain about your office manager. Every time we get together, all you do is complain about your patients. Every. No one wants to hear it, right? So I'm challenging you. If you don't love what you do, then really evaluate where you are and find something either. Maybe you need to learn something new. Maybe. Maybe the bread and butter isn't cutting it for you. Maybe fillings and crowns aren't cutting. Go learn something new. Maybe you need to learn airway. Maybe you need to learn implants. Find something that's going to reignite your passion, whatever that might be, because where you are right now, you're not stuck. You know, you're not a tree. You can move. You can do something about it. So be a doer. You know, the pity party's got to stop. Be a mover. Be a shaker. Be a doer, and get yourself out of the rut.

You know, it sounds like I sense some sort of passion from you in that theme for.

A dentist female or a dentist mother who is struggling to find enthusiasm toward the position because maybe they just feel weighed down by it. The office manager, the. The cancellations, the. The overhead expenses, the taxes, the debt, business and personal debt. And it just sort of. It. It just sort of feels like this. This heavy blanket that you're carrying around all of the time. And I. I suspect, and I believe this from my own experience in working with dentists over the years, that I fi. I do find that probably a little bit more among the females, mothers, because of how much burden they are carrying to do that. And it's almost like you feel this, this concept of I'm not doing enough, I'm not doing it well enough, or I read on your, somebody commented on, I think your website or somewhere, they feel mommy guilt that they're not delivering enough in the practice or they're not delivering enough at home with their children, or both. And so you lose that, you lose that excitement, you know, And I, I think pivoting is critical when you're in that. And that could be pivoting within the practice, which as a financial advisor is going to be my first recommendation. Because as a skilled clinical clinician, as a skilled dentist, you have an incredible ability to monetize that. It's going to be hard to find another venue where you can monetize your skill set so quickly. And, and, and so that might be new, new education. Let's learn how to do dental implants. Let's add this layer. Let's, I don't know, just do something new, try new things and be innovative and, and, and explore and, and, and, and go that route. Ultimately, if, if dentistry just isn't doing it for you, then then yeah, you can, you can pivot out and do something else. Maybe some consulting or some speaking or some writing or maybe even a new, entirely new industry, which I have seen that as well. But how, let's actually step back for one sec. What percentage of grads coming out of school or even in the industry if you know, Dr. Yum of Dentists are female and of those, maybe how many are mothers?

So about 50% is what I've been reading is graduating women. There's 200,000 dentists in the US and I read about between 30 and 40% are women. Of that there is no statistic of what percent are mothers. So I did reach out to the ADA and aawd, but they don't have that number per se. All we know is that eventually majority of women move on to become a mom at some point, whether it's naturally or adopted or foster or stepchild.

So I don't know the hard numbers as far as the number of women that are moms. But to address the mom guilt that is very real. No matter what industry, any working mother is going to feel that guilt. And there are a lot of.

If you Google research on articles on mothers at work, you'll find articles from Harvard Business Review, you'll find other psychology papers. And what they've determined and what they've done on the research is they've actually followed children from young, as they get older, whose mothers work and they have found that a large percentage of children whose mothers work, they get paid more as an adult their wages. Girl male or female.

Males are more.

Likely to pitch in at home, so like help their wives with chores and cooking and shopping and pitching in. They've also found that daughters of working mothers are more likely to be managers or superiors or executives.

And leaders in their, in the workplace and therefore earning more money than the women whose mother stayed at home.

So the data is clear. And then there's also data that shows it's not the quantity of time that you spend with your children, it's the quality like being present. And so from for mom guilt, a lot of the times it's not the children, it's the parent that feels badly unless you're not ever present. And the child is like, you never, you've never come to one basketball game, you've never come to one soccer game. But the beauty of dentistry is that you can create your own schedule. So you can schedule out in advance unless, you know, patient emergencies do happen, you know, but you can schedule in advance if you want to go on that field trip, if you want to go to the game, if you how you want to be present for your child. You can be on the range of 0 to little or I'm going to be the room mom. And there are plenty of women dentists who've done that and have business. I'm going to be the Girl Scout troops or you know, Girl Scout Brownies or whatever leader or the, or the mom. And there's plenty of dentists that do that and mothers that do that. The guilt part for me, I came to a decision where I had to tell myself I signed up for this.

I'm not going to feel guilty about it because I signed up for it. And it's all about perspective. And I was raised by a working mom and I was a latchkey kid. And I saw how my parents worked and my dad very much is part of being hands on as well. And so but they're both entrepreneurs as well. And so they had the flexibility of being at every violin concert, every, you know, my sister's basketball, my swimming. So one was always present while the other was working in these would trade off. And I saw that that was living proof in my own childhood life. And I think that everyone grows up differently and there's no right or wrong, it's just what you want to do. So our society, I think in America.

Even, like if you compare other countries, we're a very industrious nation. We're always working. Everyone's super creative. A lot of the most wonderful products have come out of the US but there are places in Europe where maternity leave is like one year.

And that's normal. And here it's like you get six weeks, honey, and you're back to work, or eight weeks, and that's it. But they don't make it conducive for a mom to be able to come back because they're like, we're only paying you for eight weeks or whatever it might be. Or even paternity leave is really short. And paternity leave is somewhat new in the US as well. So I think when you compare, like, different nations as well, our society as a whole put a lot up, puts a lot of pressure on. On families to succeed. And there's a lot of, you know, keeping up with the Joneses, a lot of judgment. And I think that you kind of have to, like, wall that all off and do what's best for you and what's best for your children and your family. And there are going to be many different variations of what a family looks like, right? You could have, when you watch the show Modern, the Modern Family, that of its time, that show where they show all these different kinds of families, you know, like. And I think that you just have to do what's best for you. And that's what I love about dentistry, is that you can create schedules and you can create what works for you and still have a great income and still make it so that you can be there for your family and also be financially contributory to your own household income.

One of my favorite TED Talks is by a guy. He actually can't remember his name, but the name of the talk was a kinder, gentle, gentler definition of success. And it is. It was actually the first podcast, the first TED Talk I ever listened to. This was years ago. I was on a Virgin Airlines flight, and it just happened to show up. And I'd never even heard of TED Talks before that. And he. He encourages us to define success. We're going on to this concept, carrying on this theme of. Of mommy guilt and how to avoid mommy guilt, that you define your success.

Not necessarily by what you do accomplish, but you define it by avoiding the elements of loss. In other words, what points of loss in your life that if you lost out on these things because you are so focused on, let's say, financial success would overshadow any other success that you've had. And as a mother, you know, you have this important relationship with Your children, you may have an important relationship with your spouse, you have an important relationship with your practice and the team members there, your health, maybe your own parents and siblings. You have these things, there may be faith involved as well. And you have to define what are those things that I know I can't lose out on, that can't break down in my life, because if those things broke down, no matter what else I do, I'm going to feel like I really fail. And he says, you got to make sure that you protect those things. And if you protect those things, then whatever else happens, whether you make a million dollars a year or whether you make $80,000 a year, whatever, but you protect those things that define your success as you've authored it. I think that's very important, is authoring your own definition of success as a, as a mother in dentistry and making sure that you are very strict to measure yourself against that definition and nobody else's definition.

And that ideally or hopefully would help you sort of diffuse that, that mommy guilt that so easily. I, I just, I'm not a mommy, I'm a daddy, but I'm not a mommy. But, but I, I know that a mother in dentistry is very prone to filling self doubt and feeling that they haven't done enough, that they haven't accomplished enough, that they haven't measured up on those two sides of, of their life. It's just gotta be such a natural thing. And, and I just suspect that's maybe a lifelong battle, but if you can define that success clearly and attach yourself to it, maybe you can address that. Can we also sort of go down this path of this concept of what is work life balance? Because this is obviously a relevant subject on this theme, and I've always divided this subject into two camps. And one camp is work life balance, which we've all heard about, probably all said it a million times. And then the other camp is work life integration, which I can't remember where I heard it, maybe it was a Tony Robbins article or something. But work life integration is something I've thought a lot about because getting my company practice CFO off the ground in 2014 just took, it just took a lot of years off of me and added some gray hairs, no doubt to my, to my head, and pretty good.

I don't see anything.

Oh, they are there, trust me. But I, I've thought about this because I couldn't find this concept of balance, which is sort of, you have this equilibrium that you have in, you have a healthy range over here in your Home life and your hobbies and your health and your travel or your recreation, whatever that is. And then you've got this equally healthy profession, career that you're nurturing. On the other hand, and sometimes we think maybe that should be 50, 50, how we allocate our time or how, you know, however people define balance. But that, that's sort of the traditional school of thought. And then work life integration is to say the way the world operates today is that you're always on the clock in a way, especially as a business owner, especially as a dental practice owner, in my case, financial planning, CPA practice owner. You're always on the clock. And so you're getting texts, you're getting emails, you've got sometimes meetings, you know, early in the day or late, late at night. And at the same time, my kids play competitive tennis, which I heard you mention tennis a few times. Maybe that's a theme.

We have a thing in our house.

And then, then you know, sort of the, the pressure kids feel out there, but it can be a healthy thing. And that all in, all out sort of mentality you mentioned in the beginning, so applicable there with that concept. But they're also in, in some soccer and some dance. You know, they're part of, a, part of a faith. They do some youth activities and things like that and then have school which is extremely competitive in the school district that they're in. My other son is in these AP classes and they just take, you know, they take a lot of time and, and I want to be there for them and with them through that process of their, going through their, their youth and they need that. And, and so as a business owner, I have really had to be intentional over the past few years about being there. And it's been very hard at times to be present, as you said, to be present even when I am there because I know I've got this gravitational pull on me to go and address this email, address this issue, make sure a client feels tended to and I'm responsive, you know, make sure that all this stuff gets done on time with their, with their tax work and whatnot, all that stuff. And so that concept of work life balance is something that I continue to try to, to shape in my life. But as I've done so, I have found my ability to, to concede, to not concede, but to be more flexible in the way that I view my career. And that's been a very good evolution for, for me that I've sort of figured out that, yeah, I'm going To I'm going to be home for dinner, I'm going to make sure I put my, you know, my 11 year old down and, and I lay with him in bed and we read for, you know, for 10 minutes. I'm going to make sure that I get there a little bit early at his tennis so he sees me watch them. I'm going to make sure I'm there at his stuff. But it also means I'm going to be working sometimes from 9 o' clock to 11 o' clock at night and I'm okay with that. Now where I used to feel guilty, I'm working at night. But you know what? I'm okay with that because I'm where I need to be when I need to be and that work life integration is fine. Or when I go on vacation, I will intentionally take an hour a day and I'll just sit down, I'll let my family do whatever they're doing and I will just make sure I go through emails and whatnot. So when I come back, I don't have a bazillion emails that backs me up for two weeks. I'm just sort of staying a little bit current. So that's how I've, those are a couple examples of how I've tried to create this integration between the two that's allowed me to be flexible, which has allowed me to be where I need to be when I need to be to those that really matter to me most in my life. Where do you maybe fall in these two camps between work life balance, work life integration? Where is the boundary set? Should it be a very definitive boundary between the two? And maybe how does this apply to, you know, dentistry and being, being a mom? What are your thoughts on that, Dr. Yum?

Well, I, I think you beautifully explained how you integrate and how you balance. I thought your examples are amazing and great and it works for you and you figured it out for your, for your family and for you. I thought that was a perfect example. And my perspective is that I don't necessarily want to put terms or labels on how people should live their life. And I think that when you start to say you need work life balance or you need to integrate, like it starts to stress people out and they question am I balanced? Am I doing this right? And my whole thing is there's no right or wrong. It has to work for you and your family.

But when your wife or husband is saying complaining or your kids are complaining, then something's off kilter. Okay. And parents, when you're living Your life with kids, how many ever you have a family is like an orbit. There's multiple planets moving around. Okay? Like you said, there's gravitational pole and these little planets, there's, you know, your work planet, your friends planet and, and everything is orbiting around you. Okay? Right. And you have to control yourself and come out with a strategy that's going to work for your family. And the thing that I want to point out is that sometimes there is no balance. And I look at life as seasons.

Maybe that's because I'm getting old, but there's going to be a season like when you first start your business, 100% of your energy and time and your focus and your thoughts are going to go into that. But that starts to slow down as your business takes off. But you need to invest 100% in order to successfully launch. So the people around you have to understand.

I need this time right now because I need to do, to start right on the right, right foot. But that is my season in life right now. Okay? That season will pass.

And then maybe you realize or you get the diagnosis that your 4 year old has autism and is diagnosed at preschool and it's regressive autism. Now your season is going to shift and your orbit's going to shift and all of your attention needs to go on this four year old child and figuring out what kind of early intervention do I need, what kind of therapist do I need? That starts to be all consuming of you, right? And then maybe a month later you figured that out.

But then a month later you realized that you have frozen shoulder and now you need to figure out the game plan of okay, I can't work right now, okay, can't even lift up the handpiece. Who's going to fill in? Who's going to see my patients? What kind of, where am I going? Am I going to the orthopedics, am I going to the acupuncturist, my going the chiropractor, I'm going to pt. What kind of treatment do I need? All of a sudden this season in your life you're dealing with your health. So your life is like the weather. You're going to have sunny days, you're going to have rainy days, you're going to have days where it's hailing and you're going to get pounded with ice. You're going to have days where you know what, there's a tornado, it's a tornado warning coming, sirens are going off, there's a fire brush coming, you're gonna have to evacuate your house.

There's all these different seasons and it's going to push and pull you and how you respond and react is really important.

And you may find that balance is all about how to deal with all these things that come at you so that you don't feel like you're drowning.

And so, and that, and people think, sometimes they say, like, why me? Cancer, divorce. And I think that's where faith comes in, right? Where you're rooted in your faith, whatever your faith might be, to pull you out of these things.

But to have hope that you're going to get past this or you deal with it one step at a time. So I think that for moms and dads out there that are listening, things happen in seasons. And really it's about how you get through it with your family and how your loved ones and how you are going to respond and pull out. And there are going to be seasons of joy, you know, seasons where your kids are graduating from high school, got accepted to college. Seasons where your athlete at home, got a full ride, you know, Division one, lacrosse, whatever. There's going to be seasons where you are like, oh my God, I'm finally a million dollar practice. That's what I've always wanted. And I got there. Seasons of, hey, I'm selling my practice and I'm retiring. And that's going to be. You reflect on like everything that you've done for your, your patients, but also the people that work for you. Like you're the leader of the team, right? So there's so many wonderful seasons in life, but it's also balanced with turmoil. And I think that's in the real picture, in the big picture. That's the balance. That's the balance of being the recipient of all of these things. And so the day to day, that's hard. You know, the day to day isn't going to be perfect. The day to day, you know, there will be days where you were supposed to go pick up your kid at Wednesday at 1 o' clock rather than 3 o' clock because they had teacher, you know, conference and you forgot about it and they call you at school and you're still seeing patients and you have to send your office manager to go pick up your kid because you forgot it wasn't part of the normal routine. So there's going to be days like that where you're going to be like, I suck. But there's going to be days where your kid's going to look at you and be like, you're my Hero. So I think that, like, in the big picture, don't fret about, am I balanced? Am I not balanced? Am I doing like. I think that you just have to stick it through and do the best you can and of course, lay some groundwork. Like vacation. If you're an entrepreneur, you're always on. If you're a business owner, you are always on. But like you said, that was so great, Wes. You said, I'm going to take an hour of the day, respond to the emails that I need and block this hour, and then the rest of the days with my family. And then you get to enjoy your vacation. Some people I know, they put their phone in the hotel safe and they lock it up so that they can't have it on them and they can enjoy. And some people say I need to go on a 10 day vacation because it takes me three days to unwind. It takes me three days to get off my routine and to actually like, breathe and enjoy myself. And so I think that, you know, you just have to like, kind of look at the whole big picture and do the best you can and then just say, you know what, I'm going to have some boundaries and I'm gonna block off time. And for moms, or new moms, if you're listening, or you're pregnant.

When that baby arrives or when you have that baby, that first year of life is so hard. And you're just trying to keep this baby alive, okay? And you're trying to figure out your schedule, you're trying to figure things out. It's so hard, especially for a new mom, first baby. The last thing that moms add back in their life is their health and their exercise. They don't make themselves a priority. They need to be there for the baby. They need to be there for their spouse. They need to be there for their other children and their businesses and their patients. The last thing that new moms and all moms do is tend to themselves. So my recommendation for all new moms is don't forget about yourself. And you're gonna have to schedule out during the week, maybe one week, one hour of exercise.

Whether it's a 30 minute walk, schedule out 30 minutes of exercise because you need that physical outlet. You need that. And that could be even walking with your friends or your neighbor. It could be riding a bike. It could be. Or maybe with your kids even, maybe you, you know, do something with your children. But, but my point being is that don't put yourself last.

Because that leads to burnout and burnout is like a whole separate topic and that's like a whole separate hour because that deals with your emotional and mental wellness. So just make sure you, you schedule some time for yourself.

That's a subject we could definitely develop further on a another podcast. I am a hundred percent with you on that. For me, if I'm not exercising, I simply mentally, I languish. I don't feel as vibrant, my energy level is lower, my self confidence is lower and people around me feel that sort of lethargy that emerges in my life when there's nothing exercise. I'm a big fan of that and taking care of oneself as it sort of leaks or feeds into all these other areas of one's lives and produces such a positive result on those. You know, a couple things on this concept of where is the boundary? Is it work life balance, work life integration? And I Love your answer, Dr. Young, because you're saying let's not create a specific label and, and try to place everybody in that sector. It's sort of a moving boundary where you are in your phase of your life. I couldn't echo that any better because I know when I started practice cfo.

My wife just knew that no matter where we were, I was going to take a new prospect phone call. It didn't, it didn't matter if I was at the dinner table with my mother in law, I would leave the dinner table to take a new prospect phone call because I had no money in the bank and I had, you know, I have a family of five I'm taking care of and my, you know, my three children and I'm in San Diego where living isn't cheap. And so that was just my phase of life. I had no boundary. It was all one and the same, which was effectively all professional at the time. And that that was the case for probably three years from 2014 to 2017. But then it's almost like the plane gets lift off the treadway and now you got, you got air under the wings and you're starting it to get up there and eventually you get into a sort of cruising mode. And I mean, truth is I feel like I'm never permanently in cruising mode, but at least you get up in the altitude to where it's, it's going. You don't need as much like, like energy to keep that motion in place. And then at that point for me then I started really making sure I was more present for things. And then I would block off time that work would not disturb this or that. And I became much more intentional about that. But it was a different season for me. It was a different phase in my life cycle for me. And I, I think you're absolutely right on that, that the boundary is very subjective to you as a, as a, as a human being, but also subjective to where you are in, in your life. One of the things I'll, I'll mention what practice CFO does is as people go through those phases, it helps define monetarily what is that system of cash flow that needs to be in place, that can maintain itself without you being there to, you know, always do this or that. And do you feel confident that there's enough money in your practice checking account that you're gonna, you're gonna weather whatever storm that is that's coming your way? For example, I have a client next month who's having a liver transplant, very successful prosthodontic periodontic practice. And, and so we're, we're actually meeting in two weeks to plan out the next six months. What is cash flow gonna look like? What do we have to make sure is in the bank? What's going to happen with payroll? Do we keep funding her 401k and defined benefit plan? Do we stop that for the time period? But we're going to make sure that when she leaves that meeting that she knows that the arrangement is in place for her finances so that she can think about what she needs to think about, which is her health and recovery from that procedure. I think it's very important, especially on the monetary side, that people just feel comfortable that there's a plan in place for at least the short term, preferably the long term as well, with a good medium to long term financial. Financial plan. That was a, I thought that was very insightful comments there. Let me ask you this, and we're, we're nearing, I think the end here, but I want to talk about maybe some very specific things that a mother dentist can do to make sure that she is there present with her children? I'll be very specific in this question that she's there present with her children where she will feel confident and good in her role as a mother. I read an article and here were just a few things. Maybe on occasion the kids can come into the office and do the homework, do their homework in her private office, or she can call patients or staff while taking time away on a vacation that she would have never got to if she stayed in the office and took those calls. So maybe this is a little bit on that concept of work life integration as opposed to work life balance. But these are just some things from the article.

Also maybe doing bigger treatments in the morning so that by the end of the day you're transitioning out of sort of that mental demand so that when you go to pick up your children, you're sort of ready to be there and be present. One of the concepts was, as much as we love nut and bolt, you know, basic dentistry, maybe learning to do bigger procedures where you can work three days a week instead of four days a week to get that extra day back. Or maybe opening up at 6:30 or 7 or staying later on, on one day where maybe your kids are already in something else going on and get that extra, extra day back. Are there any specific, I don't know, ideas or strategies that you've seen with your mothers in your group that has helped them find that flexibility to be with their children in a way that they feel good about? What are some of those?

One way to be really present with your children is to modify your schedule. You can start at 7am or 6am and get all the early bird patients and then be done at three so that you can be home for your children after school. Another way is to partner or find an associate to help you with your workload. And another way, which I have always done, is to find help, whether it's a personal assistant or a high school kid on the street in my neighborhood to come help with after school things. Lately what I've done is I have someone who comes and helps me after school, actually someone on my mommy dentist team. She does mommy dentist stuff in the morning and then after school she comes and helps me take one to soccer and I take the other to dance. She'll help me make dinner. So just having an extra set of hands to help you so that you're not stressed out I think is really important. Some people think, wow, that's such a luxury. I can't afford it. But the truth of the matter is you can afford it. If you think of it in terms of you add up the hours, maybe it's just part time. Maybe it's 15 hours after school and it's. Maybe it's $13 an hour. You really can't afford it. You're really just cutting one extra crown a week. You can cut one extra crown a week to afford half time hours of help. And there's no shame in that. And I think that for me, I do all the cooking on the weekends. So during the week I need help because I'm working or I'm traveling and it's just nice to also have somebody who's going to have a designated date night. So I always find one day a week where my husband and I always go out and we have someone there to watch the kids and we'll go early. So the babysitter comes at 5, she feeds the kids dinner. So we leave at 5:30, we're back by 7. We still put the kids down for bed. We just block out two hours of time in the neighborhood to just grab a quick dinner and come back. So it doesn't have to be like this extravagant date night. We're going on Saturday night to the most fancy place in town. It could just be a coffee date, it could just be a quick, you know, grab, go to Chipotle real fast and come home, you know, so it's just a two hour catch up time where it's just you and your partner and that. And I think that's really important to do that. But one thing that I want to touch on, Wes, that you had said was that you're working with this doctor, you're working out her finances because she's going to go have a medical procedure. One thing I really want to.

Tell people, especially women, is to get involved with knowing your finances. And don't just leave it up to your spouse or your significant other because if something happens to him or her or whoever's in charge of the finance, if something happens to that money situation in the house and you have no idea, that is really stressful. And you really need to know about your financial situation. You need to know it for your business, but you also need to know it at home. Do you have the login and password information for all your bank accounts and who pays the bills? In my house I pay all the bills. But. And again, however you split the pie or whatever your, your bank account looks like doesn't matter to me. What you need to know is how much is in that account and where it's going. You should have access to all the credit card statements. You should have access to where all the retirement money is going. You should have access to all the stocks and bonds and mutual funds, whatever platform or dashboard that your financial planner has put you on. You need your access, Vanguard, whatever TD America go on there. And even if you don't know anything about anything, bright start for your kids, your 501C, whatever, you have to know how to access it. Hands down, I don't care if you know how to read the information, you just need to know how to access It. And if you do know how to read the information and you have financial literacy, all the more power to you. But you should work with someone like Wes to make sure that you know. Because if something were to happen and you need to figure it out, and let's say something happens to your partner and you'll never see your partner again, and you don't know how to access that, that creates this whole other layer of stress. And I have a lot of women and moms in my group that are widows, that are single mothers, and they have to do it all. And you might be in a phase where you might be in practice and you know the pulse of your practice, right? So you check your bank account and you see the money in there, but you're not keeping tabs on every single penny. But you're like, ah, we're down 10,000. Something's happening. Let's look at the new patient numbers. Let's look at the treatment case acceptance rate. Let's figure it out. And I get that. I get that you know the pulse of your practice and you know the numbers generally, but really delve into.

Your funds, especially your personal, because things happen and you just want to be prepared.

Elaborating on that, I think every dentist, and I think this is especially true for a mother dentist who has to be very efficient in the use of their time because of, well, just how thin time can feel to them is. I think when it comes to finances, number one, they need to be educated. They need to be educated on what is happening with your taxes. You don't need to be a tax expert by any means. You don't need to know debits and credits. You don't need to know exactly the difference between fixed assets and expenses. There's a lot of these things you don't need to know about, but you do need to be able to communicate with your advisor in a way where you connect it. It's. There's clarity. And your advisors are going to use certain terminologies that some of them you, you won't understand. But the more you can understand, the better. So our Associates on Fire program is really a. An education program for dentists in general. So if you go on associatesonfire.com, you'll see we have a lot of videos and I put a lot of time. And this is totally free. We have a green screen room in our office. We do professional editing. I've had the PowerPoints professionally done. I try to make it very.

Helpful as a tool to learn about what are the financial implications of being a dentist. And I talk a lot about student loans, I talk about a lot about buying a practice, I talk about starting up a practice, I talk about corporate versus private dentistry, I talk about when you own a practice, what is the financial ecosystem that you're operating in. How to understand your 1120s tax return at a basic level if you're a corporation. How to understand your 1040 tax return if you're personal, your 1065 if you're a partnership. How to just understand the big blocks. That's really important, I think. So number one is financial education. And you can do that listening to, you know, Associates on Fire podcasts or other podcasts on your way home. You get this one thing I know about dentists, they get plenty of clinical. They are avid seekers of clinical knowledge. But I don't find the same extent on financial knowledge. And that's understandable. You didn't go to school to become a financial expert. But as a practice owner, especially for practice owners, there's a certain level of knowledge that I believe every dentist, practice owner, and especially every mother practice owner should, should have. So that's number one is knowledge. Number two is make sure that your advisor, cpa, financial planner, ideally, ideally understands the nuances of dentistry because it is different. And an advisor who can connect the, the business side, which is one pocket, with your personal side, which is another pocket. Because virtually every dentist sets up their entity as what's called a flow through entity, a corporation or a partnership, which means the entity itself isn't taxed, your dental practice isn't tax, but instead it flows all the profits out on this thing called a K1 document and it gets added to your 1040 along with your W2 and then your spouse's income, all that stuff. And then it ultimately spits out what is your tax liability. But it's because it's a flow through. It's just you, you are the taxpayer of your business and personal on one tax return, your 1040. And understanding some of the nuances of how that work works will help you. So your advisor should understand how the dental nuances are included in here. For example, what's the best way to take advantage of depreciation your practice, there's right and wrong ways to do that. How can at year end you sort of mitigate your taxes, things you can do as a dentist to mitigate your taxes near the end of the year. What's the right type of 401k plan and how do you design it? Do you have there's this thing called a safe harbor. Do you do a 3% or you do a match? Do you add a profit share element to it? When is it a good time to set up what's called a defined benefit plan? These, they're called ERISA plans. These ERISA plans are very complicated, and a lot of times I find financial advisors will go and just do this plug and play that they put in over, on this construction company over here and restaurants over there. And it's not tailored to a dental practice. So clients will come to us. And yeah, we cost more than your bookkeeper down the street managing your QuickBooks file. We do cost more than that, but it's because we're your cfo, we're not your bookkeeper. We're your chief financial officer. But it's so easy for us to sort of blend everything together in a way that creates what I call value surplus, which is the value you get far exceeds the payment you. You make to us, especially when you get in those higher tax brackets. Even the smallest good advice can save you tens of thousands of. Of dollars every year. Let me expand a little bit too, on, on these. On these things that I think a female dentist, so a mother dentist should have in mind as they're operating their dental practice, they need to create space in their life to be where they need to be, when they need to be, they need to have that space. What I find dentists doing a lot, and you can tell me if you agree or disagree on this, but is they love to DIY everything they love. And I love you dentists. Forgive me for sounding like I'm not being a nice guy here, but this just. What I just. What I see is they love to do everything. Them do it yourself. They love to do everything themselves a lot. They feel like they got to know everything. I got to know exactly how to maintain a QuickBooks file. I got to go know exactly how to process payroll. I got to know exactly how to, you know, how to do this and that. And maybe for a short period of time, that's okay. But you have to start to do what I call lma, which is lead, manage and create accountability. Now, I stole that from this emerging business program called the Traction Program or the EOS Entrepreneurial Operating System. It's becoming a little bit of a fad. And we here at Practice CFO are deep into putting this into place in order to run our business as a business should be fun with process, should be run with processes and systems and getting the right people where they need to be and all that kind of stuff. One of their themes is LMA lead, manage and create accountability. And so I am a big believer in dentists need to do what they do best and what they create great value in both just professionally, but also monetarily, which is doing really good dentistry and the right type of dentistry and knowing how to communicate to your patients and in a way that they can see and understand why they need to have treatments. Even though they may not be feeling pain yet. You need to help them know that they may need that treatment over, you know, the next big screen TV that comes out. That's what a good dentist can do, is they can communicate that value in a way that somebody will say yes, even if they don't have insurance and we'll pay for a fee for service. You learn how to do that skill, then you will have plenty of income to pay other people to delegate to do those small little tasks. The more that you can sort of develop that leadership skill set, I think the more you're going to find that space in, in, in your life to do those things that create that balance, that sense of equilibrium that, that you want.

I'm smiling, I'm laughing, and I'm not laughing at you. I'm just agreeing because the DIY statement is very much true. I would have to agree with that. And I read a lot of books and I read a lot about business. I read a lot of publications. And I think that if you're an entrepreneur and you're a business owner, you need to educate yourself.

I do lecture, and one of my lecture, one of my presentations is how to create a business that runs without you. And I lecture on that. And you don't see the founder of Subway making sandwiches. You don't see the founder of United Airlines flying a plane or working at the gate and being a gate agent. You don't see the founder of Spanx.

Going to the factory and sewing garments together.

So if you're a founder, you do what founders do. If you're a dentist, you do what a dentist does. But a true owner of a business hires people to do the work.

And then the beauty of being a dentist and a dentist, dental practice owner, is you can do as little as much dentistry as you want.

So my own personal thought is.

Create goals. Obviously, you know, and there are, there are dentists that are the gods of dentistry. They have the most beautiful work and they are beautiful dentists and technicians. But you also have to think like, if you are a dentist and a practice owner, how are you going to maximize.

Your business? Right? And I'm not saying money is everything. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying, like, what is your goal? Do you want to be a $500,000 practice or do you want to be a 3 million dollar practice? Figure out what your goals are and then work backwards on how to attain those goals. You know, you have to fix target and then work your way backwards to see what plan you need to lay out. My whole vision was, when I went to sell was that I wouldn't have to work a single, it was a turnkey. Profitable business. Buyers can come, they don't even have to work in it. I can just say, here's your keys and I never have to step in the practice. And that's what I did. So what are your goals and financially, what are your goals? Right? And how do you work with someone like you to achieve those goals?

I don't believe like, so for a very long time as a new dentist, new practice owner, I did do the payroll and I'm glad I did it because it taught me what it entails, right? But then it got to the point where I was doing payroll while I was in Hawaii on vacation and I would be like, excuse me, I need to go to the business office to do payroll. I'll be right back.

Because we're like eight hours ahead, you know, so it, it got to the point where I was like, you know what? I need to offload the payroll, right? Because I can't be doing this every, every day, bi weekly. But I'm glad I did it because when I hired the person to do the payroll, it's like, I know how to do it and I know what it entails and I know how much you're charging me and what that worth is. And if you mess up, I know what you messed up. Like, I know how I can tell you how to do your job because I did it. So it's really important to know these things. But at the same time, the 8020 rule applies. So you need to maximize your time by focusing on the things that you only want to do and gives you joy and things that you know are going to maximize your profits. Or like, hey, like I'm going to rig my schedule some. I put priority on my kids, right? So you do that. Or hey, I'm going to max my, my schedule and I'm going to hit targets during the day because each day I want to. My goal is $10,000 because I know each day my fixed cost is 2000, and I want an $8,000 profit. Fix your goals, Create your goals, but don't get hung up on the little details where you can offload that. Don't micromanage your team. Train them, trust them. Check in. I grew up as a dental assistant. I did every single job in that dental office, including clean the toilets, take out the garbage, pour up models, file insurance, type on the typewriter. There was no computer back then filing the charts. It wasn't digital, and I knew who messed up the alphabetical charting. And I was like, you don't know your Alphabet because I just found Timmy's chart that starts with T in the F section, you know? So it's like, if you've done every single job, that's great in a way because you know how to do it. But is my job better? Is my hours spent better on the phones, booking appointments, or is it better in the operatory doing that $6,000 braces case?

You know, one hour is one hour, right? And my dad, who is true entrepreneur, When I was 16, I had my first job, and I worked for my pediatrician, and he paid me $7 an hour after school, junior year in high school, he said, okay, Grace, you're going to help me after school, and I want you just to file the charts, you know, and if the phone rings, you can pick it up. $7 an hour. I was 16, I was a junior in high school, and I was taking calculus, and I needed help with calculus, so my parents hired a tutor. But my dad said, Here's $40, and you're going to pay your tutor after each session, okay? And so after each session, I would give the tutor my $40. Now and then he says to me, okay, so how much does the doctor pay you in one hour? Said, $7. How much do you pay your tutor for that one hour? Is it 40 bucks? So for the rest of your life, do you want to get $7 an hour, or do you want to get $40 an hour? And I was like, he's like, if you had to choose, he's like, an hour is an hour. And then he said, how much does Dr. Kim make in an hour? I was like, well, in actually 15 minutes, he makes $200. So I guess in an hour, he makes, like, a lot of money. And, you know, so he's like, okay, so do you want to be you answering the phones? Do you want to be the tutor, or do you Want to be Dr. Kim? One hour is an hour.

I learned that lesson at 16.

And I said, tell with this. I'm going to be the doctor. But I didn't know. I couldn't learn that until I worked and saw it for myself. And so doctors, for that one hour, do you want to be fee for service or do you want to take insurance? I was never. I was fee for service. I said, I'm going to get paid every single minute. I'm Dr. Kim, so I'm going to get paid that full hour. And if I cut a crown, I'm going to get that $1,200. I'm not going to take a haircut on it.

So what are you going to do? An hour's an hour. So why is the dentist next door getting 1200 and you're only getting 80% of that? You're both doing the same exact thing. You both quality work. You're both fully capable of delivering that crown. So why are you taking a haircut? I challenge you.

That is one of the themes here at bragsteapa. We talk about all the time moving more fee for service into your practice. And. And there's some good consultants out there that can sort of help walk you through that process. And a lot of that is being willing to step on that ledge. You know, like Indiana Jones stepping out on the ledge in the Temple of Doom. You know, he can't see it, but he believes it's there. And making that step of faith. But there's also right ways to go about doing it. How you communicate to your patients. Communication is just one of those skills. I wish every dentist would take some courses in communication because that's what makes or breaks how your team is motivated, how your patients receive your treatments. So if you're not communicating well, you're going to really struggle to go fee for service. Really struggle to go fee for service. It is just as important as any clinical skill, is to learn how to communicate effectively. Let's go ahead and round things out here. Dr. Yum. I just want you to give me a little plug for your. For your Facebook group. It's got a large following in there. What are some of the resources people will find in there? Maybe talk about MDIV in general. What are some of the other resources and how can they find you?

Sure. So you can find us on our website, which is mommydibs.com you can find all of our podcasts on your favorite platforms. You can find our books on Amazon. And if you are a mom and a dentist, you can join our Facebook group, Mommy Dennis in business. And that's pretty much all you know, we're on Instagram. You can find us all over. And one thing that I do want to say, Wes, is that I was a communications major at Northwestern. Yeah. So my first. My first love was journalism. So that's what I wanted to do. I was a dental assistant because I was forced to be one. My. My dad's best friend was our family dentist, and his kids were one orthodontist, one periodontist. And I was the orthodontist dental assistant because she was 10 years older than me. So everywhere she went, I was forced to help her because that's what family offers to. And she's still very much part of my life. She's in Boston, orthodontist in Boston now. So I was forced to do it, and that's how I fell into it. And my dentist, Dr. Sam, who's my dad's best friend, he taught at Northwestern Dental School. He was a judge for the boards. He prepped me every summer. I mean, I took the bare requirements to do dentistry. And if you're a student, listening, science was not my jam. I was more verbal, you know, oriented, not math and science. But I muscled through it. It wasn't easy for me. And nothing that's worthwhile in life is easy because then everyone would do it, right? So I would just say, don't be discouraged. You should keep plugging away. And if you are a reader, some of the books you should read, especially if you want to enhance your business skills, is the the Energy Bus. That's one. Another one is called you'd Are the Team, that's by Michael Rogers, and that's on Amazon as well. One book that I just finished is called it's the Manager, and that one is also on Amazon. And I think that if you don't have access to grow your skill sets as an entrepreneur, you need to find the resources. And I'm sure at Wes, you've got a whole library that you can offer up as far as financial literacy goes. But I think that you really need education, like you said. And I'm so glad that you offer all these free resources for. For anyone to jump on. I think it's so important to educate yourself. So thank you for that.

You are welcome. And thank you for being on the show. I love this subject. I think it's very poignant and pertinent to a lot of dentists out there because there are a lot of mothers who are dentists. Here's my final question for you. On your website, you say you dream of visiting the Seychelles Items. Island, Sorry. Oh, yeah, right, the Seychelle. Why?

Well, it's part of Africa and it's these little islands off of Africa. And I've always wanted to go to Africa. And actually I always wanted to go on a mission trip to Africa, which I never got around to doing. I've done Mexico with my church, but I've never gone to Africa because it's just so far away. And one thing that I'm like, oh, I tell my husband, like, what we should have done was go to Africa before we had kids because it's just so far away. And I just heard that it's beautiful. I'm very much a beach goer. Like I all vacations. I love beach vacations and now I live on the beach. But I. It's the one place where I feel.

It. It just seems just so out of reach. But I've always wanted to go and it sounds amazing. So for me, I hope to one day go there. I've gone to Australia, but I hope that one day I can get to the Seychelles Islands.

Well, I'm going to follow up with you in a couple of years and make sure you lived out your dream as every mother, dentist and entrepreneur, I believe, should live out their dream. Thank you so much for being on the show, Dr. Young.

Thank you so much for having me. It was so great. And all the listeners out there, I really, I've done a lot of podcasts and Wes is very prepared. He's really organized. And if you need someone who's organized and to work financially with you, Wes is a nice guy guy and very trustworthy. And if I was still at work, had a practice, I would sign up with Wes. So look up Wes's work. I think you should sign up. I'm a big fan.

I will take the endorsement all day long. Very much appreciate it, Dr. Young.

My pleasure. Have a great day.