Should I use a Broker to Sell My Dental Practice

Welcome, everybody. To get another episode of the Dental Practice Sale podcast, it's your host, Wes Reed. I think I have a subject today that would be of interest to a lot of people who are considering selling their practice in the near future. And the theme of today is should I use a practice broker to sell my dental practice? And I want to enumerate to you six reasons why to use a broker and six reasons why to consider not using a broker. I'm going to try to come at you with a very fair and balanced assessment of the pros and cons of using a broker. Now, I should start off by saying that in any profession, whether that is as a dentist, whether that is as a, in my case, a dental financial advisor and cpa, or in the case of a broker, you have a range of effectiveness that is important in the decision of whether or not to use a particular person. And so this is going to be less of a promotion or critique of brokers and more of a pro and con of user brokers, because there are pros and cons to using all sorts of things out there. And the most important thing is simply to be informed on what those are so you make the right educated decision. And there isn't also a single universal decision, in my opinion, on this subject. For every dentist out there, a father who is selling to, for example, a daughter who has been in the practice for three, three or four years as an associate and that child is taking over ownership may have a lower need of a broker than somebody who is selling a very nuanced type of practice for whatever reason. Maybe certain specialties within or other variations of that practice may require more specialty involvement to help sell that specific type of dental practice. So there is no right or wrong answer for everybody. Again, for me in this podcast, it's just about creating information that will be helpful as you assess whether or not to use a broker when you sell your dental practice. Let's kick this off. Let's start off with the reasons why a dental broker may be beneficial for you as a dental practice seller. Number one is when it comes to a sale, and maybe this is actually good that I emphasize, the sale has sort of two legs of the journey. The first one is finding a buyer. The second one is once you found the buyer, move it through to closing. And the mile markers generally in those two legs of the journey are, number one is when you sign the agreement with the broker. And, and again, I'm starting off by the assumption that we're using a broker. The start is you sign that listing agreement with the broker. Now the broker opens it up to match make, to find somebody who will be a good successor, a good fit, a good buyer for your dental practice. And that journey, that leg of the journey goes from signing that agreement with the broker all the way through to, to when a buyer is found and a letter of intent or an offer letter is signed by that buyer and formally submitted and accepted by you, the seller. So we'll just call that the matchmaking period, the dating period, so to speak. Now, you've got the engagement rings on and you are exclusive and you are going off market to focus now on closing this practice, this deal. The second leg of the journey is going therefore from the offer letter through closing. And there's a lot of things that go on in there. And we've had various podcast episodes on all of the events, from legal documents to due diligence, to lease reviews, to purchase and sale agreements with the attorney, to clinical assessments. There's a lot of things going on in that second broad leg of the practice sale journey. So now let me go back. What is the first of the six reasons why a broker will be valuable to a seller? The first one is that they help make that match. They have a Rolodex. They have a list of interested buyers. And if that broker has been doing their job well, they are constantly receiving and cataloging and staying in contact with their buyer pool because that pool is what gives them the leg up, the advantage perhaps over other brokers in finding a placement for a given practice. And so they can help make that match. Now, the unique thing about dental practice sales that is different from, let's say, I'm going to, I often use this comparison with real estate practice sales is that real estate practice sales, all the brokers have agreed to use a common pool, a common data center, common place to put their listing. And that's called the multiple listing service, the mls. And that's what you see feeding through on Redfin and Zillow. They've all agreed to that. Now, in business sales and in dental practice sales, brokers have not necessarily agreed to use a common assembly line of listings coming for sale. And so the broker becomes in dental, I think increasingly important over say, a real estate sale, where most people are able to make a match just through the Redfins and the Zillows and the Trulias of the world, this public assembly line of listings that come available.

Are you looking to sell a dental practice? If you're a seller, how do you find a strong list of Potential buyers. There's no MLS or Zillow for dental practice sales in such a fragmented market. With transaction costs so high, many dentists selling their practice feel discouraged. That's why I built practiceOrbit.com practice orbit is modernizing how dental practices are sold through its online marketplace platform. It brings together buyers, sellers and their professional teams directly. Sellers can easily and anonymously showcase their practice on the site for free. Practice orbital orbit offers two options to sell your practice. Option one, for 2% of the sale price fee, you'll get access to all Practice Orbit tools to sell your practice, along with a dedicated human assistant to coordinate the sale. And you only pay that 2% if you sell through the Practice Orbit system. Option 2, Practice Orbit also offers a fully brokered option of 4 to 6% of the sale price price. With our fully brokered option, you'll be assigned an experienced practice sales agent to help you determine a price, identify a buyer, and navigate the entire transaction. If you're thinking about selling your dental practice, create your free account today at www.practiceorbit.com.

So a broker will give you access to a much larger lineup of potential buyers. That is reason number one. We'll call that the Rolodex reason they have a larger Rolodex. Number two is they will help prepare your practice to present itself to the market. And they will have prepared what's called a prospectus. And the prospectus is, I generally like to call it the practice profile. It's like the Redfin illustration of that house, how many rooms, when was it built? Remodeled price, all of that, market comparisons, all of that. And they will do that work of preparing a prospectus. Now, some prospectuses are simply fill in the blank word documents. That's how it was for most brokers probably 10 years ago. But increasingly effective brokers have created much more informative listing or much more informative prospectus agreements or prospectus documents that provide visuals and really rich detail to help a buyer evaluate whether or not that practice is profitable and whether it's the right practice for them. And so a good broker will do the thorough work of gathering all of the information for your practice from your practice management software, from your accounting software. They'll maybe help with getting pictures or getting pictures from you to really showcase, really window dress the practice. A good broker will window dress it exceptionally well. That's number two. Number three is that they know the process from beginning to end. They understand all of the juncture points, the mile markers along the way, from finding a buyer to managing non NDAs, non disclosure agreements, to accepting offer letters, to helping you understand the offer letters, to then working through the close process so they really understand the process of a dental practice sale. That that is number three. That is number three. So we have Rolodex, they prepare the prospectus, they get it, window dress. And number three is they know the process. Let's go on to number four. They will act as an intermediary between you and all the participants in the sale to be your first line of communication. They know how to field questions. Well, if they're a good broker, they will be able to field the millions of questions that will come from the buyer and the buyer's team, the millions of questions that will come from the banker and the accountants, the attorneys. They will help either field those questions or direct them, traffic control them to the right place to get an answer for you. And then they will help phrase it, they'll help contextualize it for you as a seller to understand what the implications are of those questions and appropriate answers to those questions. So that is number four is they will act as your sponsor, as your proxy in much of the communication so that you don't have to, and they will filter it back to you in an understandable way. That is number four. Number five is that they are connected with bankers, they are connected with attorneys, they are connected with accountants who specialize in dental. And those connections can come in very helpful because you may not have a dental attorney or a good dental accountant to help you or understanding which bank options are out there. And those connections can prove to be quite valuable. That's number five. Number six, and this perhaps could be the most important is that brokers are highly motivated to close on a sale. Why is that? It's because of the model of compensation. They are not paid until you get through the finish line and have money in your bank account from a sale. And if you are just paying for accountants and attorneys and bankers and let's say you're paying them by the hour or just some flat rate, the accountant and the attorneys will absolutely inform you as a seller, they will answer your questions and be a huge resource. But because they've already been paid or are paying as they go, they don't have that same motivation, this significant gravitational pull to get this thing, to heave it across the finish line. Because so many deals get stuck. They get stuck because of lease issues, they get stuck because of lending issues, they get stuck because of disagreements on how to handle AR or AR credits or redos, and they get stuck and attorneys are really busy and accountants are really busy. The bakers definitely want to move it forward, but they're, they're limited to some extent because the banker really is only representing the buyer. And so the broker is the one who will just coordinate everything and sometimes make this monumental push to get everybody through the finish line. And that is one of the biggest advantages in my opinion of having a broker is just how hard they are going to work to produce a result. Because they are only paid by nature of that listing agreement. This is generally how it is. They are only paid if they find you a seller and they close on that sale. So those are the six reasons that I jotted down of why a broker will be valuable to a seller. All right, let's talk about the six disadvantages of using a broker. And again, I want to emphasize that there are disadvantages for using a cp, you know, like broke practice cfo at my own company we're not a good fit for everybody. For every dentist out there, we're an outsourced model. We tend to be more than your average bookkeeper down the street. We are going to be more than that because we are a CFO model. We're highly involved. It's more of a white glove service. We're highly technical in the space of dental tax Planning and Dental 401k Planning and Dental cash management. And for some practices that may not be what they need. They just need to get their top line up. And so when I say their top line, their collection's up. And so a lot of dentists, I will say you're doing 700,000 right now, go back instead of paying me, pay a marketer, pay a practice management consultant, get your collections up to a million 1.1, 1.2. Then at that point you have surplus cash flow, you're getting in a higher tax bracket, you're going to have more options with your dollar around to pay off debt, to invest in equipment, new operatories to hire, to market, to take home for personal money, to save in 401ks. At that point you start to need guidance around the traffic controlling of your dollar come back and that's when we're going to make a great fit at practice CFO to be your CFO and CPA advisor. And I think the same thing with any profession. There are times to use that profession in context where it makes a lot of sense and other times where it's where it may be not necessary or another alternative would be a better solution for it. So I don't want any broker to feel, I hope not, that I am attempting to tear down the value that they provide. In fact, I just listed off six excellent reasons why sellers can and should use a broker. But let me go through some of the disadvantages to using a broker. Number one is the same reason I just told you is an advantage. They are highly motivated to sell. Now, why is that a disadvantage? Because if they're highly motivated to sell, they want one thing. They want a buyer to get money to put in your bank account and that's it. And now they want to sell in a way that is a win win that you get paid well and they get paid well. But sometimes what the seller wants is a good successor. They want somebody who's a good fit for the practice, who, who's going to take care of their patients, who's going to sort of extend the legacy, who will take care of their team. And especially if the seller's working back for a period of time, that relationship needs to be good, it needs to be healthy. But a broker, once a broker is paid, they're by nature of their job, as the nature of everybody's job is, okay, I've done my job, I'm now moving on to another job. And then there's really no need for the broker to stick around, nor is their compensation clawed back in any way if things go south after that sale and contention arises or conflict or lawsuits. Generally, brokers are not subject to litigation. In lawsuits, usually they have some protection. They're not perfectly exempt, but they have quite a bit of protection around that with a lot of language in the contracts to hold them harmless for things that really they did not contribute to. And so they're highly motivated to sell. And sometimes that may mean that they want to sell and sell quickly instead of perhaps finding the right situation. So that's number one, the compensation model can at times be at odds with what is a winning solution for the seller. Number two is that a lot of brokers do have a Rolodex, which was one of the advantages. But one of the disadvantages is because there is no common database for listings, there's no centralized MLS like for real estate, that Rolodex can be small. And so I do know for a fact that a lot of times brokers have a different difficult time finding buyers for a given practice. That is very true. Now, the pitch will always be, I've got this huge pool of potential buyers. You just sign my listing agreement, I get you an offer letter next week. But the truth is, for many of them finding their buyers and managing their buyers. Their Rolodex is not as extensive as they may say, and so a listing can drag out for some time. Okay, that is, number two is because brokers are localized and there's a lot of dentists that they don't know. There's dentists in other states that are looking to move in your state or in other cities nearby that are planning to move in your city or not. Everybody in the city itself knows that broker, and the broker doesn't know every potential buyer in that city. The access or the exposure through a broker doesn't guarantee you necessarily that you're going to have a broad access to to a pool of buyers. And so you have to be careful. Are you looking to buy or sell a dental practice? If you're a seller, how do you find a strong list of potential buyers? There's no MLS or Zillow for dental practice sales. In such a fragmented market, many dentists selling their practice feel discouraged. That's why I built practiceOrbit.com practice orbit is modernizing how dental practices are bought and sold. It's a platform technology. Y' all know them. Let's Zillow, Airbnb, Uber, and OpenTable, just to name a few. These technologies do two things. First, they help match buyers and sellers by centralizing the marketplace. Second, once the match between buyer and seller is made, these technologies help them navigate the sale to a successful close. Here are a few of the features inside a Practice Orbit users can determine a reasonable sale price for practice in just minutes. All they need is the most recent in business tax return. Practice owners can use the directory to find important service providers like practice brokers, attorneys, accountants and bankers. Practice owners and their brokers can invite those service providers into the platform so all parties are coordinating the sale together. Practice owners will have a beautiful digital listing of their practice like a home on Redfin. And importantly, the listing will be anonymous and personal information will be like your address. Name and pictures are only released after an NDA is signed and approved by you or your broker. Practice buyers can create saved searches to be auto notified when new listings come on the platform that fit their desired specialty and location. And hey, dental practice brokers, you can list all your practices on the site for free. By doing so, you'll get access to Practice Orbit's large pool of buyers all all of whom have created profiles and saved searches to be auto notified when new listings come for sale. You can use the platform to introduce your listings to a targeted set of buyers. Additionally and optionally you can use the platform tools such as a built in NDA, a customizable LOI and a workflow tool to navigate the sale from LOI to closing. In fact, you can manage all your listings on the system from listing the practice, to NDA to LOI and finally to closing the deal. Create your free account today at www.practiceorbit.com.

A little bit on finding a broker that does have as much of a connection as possible. So that's number two. Let's go on to the third reason why perhaps not to use, or at least cautiously use broker. Brokers only want the highest bidder. Now that may sound like a positive thing and there is some truth to the fact that they want the highest bidder. And why do they want the highest bidder? Because they're paid a percent of the sale price. So a larger sale price is a win for you, the seller, and it's a win for the the broker. But here's where it can be a disadvantage. Brokers have a tendency, and if you're a broker listening, I am not claiming all brokers do this, but I think you would acknowledge that this is a tendency for many brokers to over promise what they can deliver on the sale price of the practice. Why? Because they want you to sign the listing agreement. And once you sign the listing agreement, we're going to go into another disadvantage. You lock yourself into an exclusivity agreement. Now you cannot sell without paying that broker for the period in which they are your agent as your broker, which is going to be outlined in the listing agreement.

And so if you find a buyer, doesn't matter, you still have to pay the broker.

If you find a buyer and the broker hardly lifts a finger. Now that's not going to be the case generally, but if they don't even lift a finger at the end of the close on that deal, you still have to pay the broker. And so the brokers will promise a very strong, sometimes unrealistic sale price of your practice in order to lure you in to signing that exclusivity agreement. And so that can be a disadvantage of using a broker is just that you may not get an honest assessment of what is the real value of your dental practice. And it's critical that you do so. You don't waste a lot of time and a lot of money thinking that you're going to get 1.5 million when there's no way you're going to get more than 1.3 million on that. Okay, moving on. The fourth reason would be the exclusivity clause. And, and I just mentioned that a moment ago. So let me emphasize that a little bit more, that with brokers, virtually all brokers that I'm aware of, other than Practice Orbit, which I'm going to share more about Practice Orbit at the end of the podcast, they require an exclusivity agreement, and generally that's going to be somewhere around a year, plus or minus, which means that during that period of time, they are your only resource, paid resource, to close on your practice. And that no matter where that buyer comes from, no matter what the result, if you close during that period of time, then you have to pay the broker their 7%, their 9%, their 10%, whatever that happens to be the exclusivity agreement. I should also defend a little bit the broker on this. A broker is going to put a lot of time into you. They're going to invest a lot of time into you. Without that exclusivity agreement, it is difficult for them to justify spending all that time with you if you end up finding your own buyer going with a different broker, and therefore they don't get paid for that. So I don't want to necessarily criticize the exclusivity agreement, but I will put it on here as a disadvantage because there have been many cases where a sale occurred and the broker was marginally the cause of this sale, and yet they got paid a 10% commission on that sale, which is a significant amount. I mean, on that note, if you do some numbers, let's say your practice sells for $800,000 and the broker charges 10%. That's $80,000 now. So your $800,000 immediately goes down to $720,000. Let's say that you've got $200,000 in outstanding debt on your practice because you bought some equipment or you did a remodel or you have some acquisition loan still that's not paid off. That's $200,000 that the buyer is not paying off for you. You have to take that 720,000, which is the 800,000 less the broker fee, and you've got to pay off that 200,000. So now you're left with $520,000 of the 800,000. Also, what's the big other factor that you have to pay when you sell a dental practice? Taxes. And your 800,000 dental practice, I would estimate somewhere around 25 to 30% of that is going to go to taxes. So of the 800,000, let's say 200,000 goes to taxes. So your 520,000 now just went down to 320,000. And of course, you have to pay generally some accounting and some attorney fees, and you're probably looking at somewhere around $290,000 or what were we at? 320. So maybe you're down to maybe $310,000. So after paying the broker, after paying your loan, and after you're paying your taxes, your $800,000 is getting close to $300,000. And that can be very discouraging. So what's my point? If the broker is walking away with $100,000 and you're walking away with roughly $300,000, and you're the one who grew that practice and managed it for 25 years, that can feel a little bit disheartening that the broker is essentially walking away with what is almost what, 20, 25% of the total, sort of take home 400,000. You got 100,000 or 80,000 going to the broker, and you're walking away with that with the rest. So that can be one of the disadvantages of a broker is just the amount of the fee associated with the broker. Okay, so that's exclusivity. I'm trying to evaluate the pros or the reasons why exclusivity exists, but also the disadvantages to the exclusivity. And really, lastly, is that actually two more? Because I think this is number five is really emphasizing just that fee. I got ahead of myself there. I was so eager to talk about the, the effect of the fee relative to what the doctor keeps, that that fee of 10% is significant. So if a practice sells for, let's say this is a, let's say a thriving practice, it sells for $2 million, and that's 10%. That's $200,000. Now, a lot of brokers these days are coming down on bigger deals. They're coming down to maybe 7%, 8%, but let's say it's 8%, that's still $160,000. If you, you calculated the broker's time on an hourly rate, that is an exorbitant hourly rate. I will say that. But the way the brokerage model works across really all industries is that there's a lot of work brokers do that they don't get a penny for. And then there's work that they do where they get paid exceptionally well for and it kind of evens out to pay the broker their salary of whatever that is, 150,000 a year, up to 44, $500,000 a year, depending on how effective they are as a broker. But the broker fee, that's number five, can be very high. Number six is that brokers are very motivated by commissions, obviously, because that is the nature of the way they're paid. But there's another form of commission that a lot of brokers get. And I'm not going to say that this is just or unjust. I'm just informing buyers and sellers. Brokers will also seek to get a commission from the bank that lends to the buyer. And not all banks, but a lot of them, if not most of the dental lending banks will pay a point which is 1% of the sale price. So if the sale price is $1,000,000, they will pay $10,000 to the broker for having referred the buyer to them. Because brokers, they're not just representing the seller, they're also brokering the deal and therefore helping the buyer as well. And they'll help. Hey buyer, do you have a dental cpa? Hey buyer, you're going to need your due diligence. Hey buyer, where are you getting your lending? Hey, talk to this person over at this bank. They can help you with lending because they have great rates. And so this isn't me saying that they are improperly motivated and deceptive. This is me saying this, that brokers, one of the things that they may not do is disclose to you, the buyer, the fact that they're getting compensated by referring you to a bank. And banks, there are other forms of commissions brokers may get, but generally it's the bank. So the perfect deal for a broker is going to be the full 10% sale price plus an extra percent or two from a bank. And now they're at 11 to 12% of the sale price. That's, that's kind of the perfect scenario for a broker. Now, virtually every broker that I know of will take those points. My emphasis there is that for, on the buyer side, and this affects the seller because the buyer is not going to buy the practice and pay you seller, unless they get a loan in order to pay you. And some banks, there's variety in the banks on how much they will be willing to lend at what interest rate they will lend at. So it's really important that the bank be a best solution for the buyer which then indirectly will lead to, for you, the seller in being able to sell to that buyer. And there's a lot of other features that go into what makes a good banking relationship. It's not just the interest rate. There are other terms. There's other banking services that should be considered when determining whether a lender is good for a given buyer. But that is one of the things to be aware of with a broker is that they have another form of compensation which you may not know about. And those are the six pros and cons. All right, let me end off with a couple final comments here. Brokers come in a lot of different shapes and sizes in terms of skill set and in terms of credibility and effectiveness. And I would definitely do some due diligence. Now, a lot of times in a given area, you've got one, maybe two brokers to choose from. And because there is no mls, having a broker who has density of experience and network in your area, that does absolutely matter with a broker. But also it's important to look at the skill set and the history of that brokerage firm. Now, one thing I will say in terms of skill set is that experience does matter a lot because a dental practice sale is a complicated sale. And knowing how to communicate with the bankers and the attorneys and the accountants and interpret a lot of the legal language and the tax and accounting language and the underwriting language, a good broker knows how to not only understand but but also negotiate favorable terms in all of those areas for you, the seller of the practice. Now, brokers have come from many backgrounds. Some have come from maybe real estate. Some have come from they just came straight up inside of a dental brokerage firm. A lot of them were formerly dental suppliers at, say, Shine or Patterson. Some of them are former dental accountants, CPAs like me being a CPA. Some of them are former dental attorneys and some are former practice management consultants. And a lot of them will pivot into dental brokerage because they feel like they can have just a better experience in their career and maybe a better return on their time. Maybe they can earn the same amount, not have to work so hard or maybe just income potential is better. For whatever reasons they will add that to or pivot into dental brokerage from where they came from. And I will say that for me, the determining factor of whether or not a broker is experienced is had they been in the deals. And what I mean by that is an accountant, a cpa. I would take a CPA who is just coming into brokerage in terms of technical skill set. I would take a CPA or I would take. Let me go with an attorney so it doesn't sound selfish. I would go with an attorney who's been in 200 dental practice sales over somebody who has six months in working for a dental broker, even though they are working for a dental broker and have more time under their belt, let's say they've been there for a year. I would rather take the attorney who's been in 200 deals because if you've been in all of these deals, you know how this thing is orchestrated. You know this language quite well. And so look at their history, not just how long they've been doing dental practice sales, but really how long they've been involved in dental practice transitions. Okay, a little bit about Practice Orbit. As we conclude here, Practice Orbit is a tech driven broker that offers a few variations from what is the normal brokerage model. Practice Orbit has two options. One is hey, essentially I have a buyer or I'm comfortable navigating this myself. I have a really good dental cpa, a really good dental attorney. I just need access to a pool of buyers and or a system that will help the flow navigate the journey through the close. And Practice Orbit is not a listing site per se. It's not just a listing site like a Craigslist or a Redfin. It is two things. It does have listings for those dentists, not aggregated listings. It doesn't pull from other brokers. So it's not an aggregated listing. It's not an mls. Although I think that would be an amazing thing to provide the industry if we could have an aggregated listing of all listings and provide bank has done a fairly good job at being able to do that on their get provide website for any buyers out there looking to find a centralized place for listing. They don't have all listings but they've got the most consolidated list that I've seen out there. But Practice Orbit is, is also a software to navigate the sale from the listing to NDAs to letters of intent through closing. And so there's workflows all of the team members can log in and all see on a common dashboard where we are in the process. It's a digital prospectus, beautiful digital prospectus. It's a secure document storage and it releases documents at different stages of of the practice sale depending on where or what stage that is. It has a built in price assessment that within a minute if you have your tax return for the practice, you can come up with a low, medium and high valuation of the practice, a price estimate and then it will calculate after your debt, estimated taxes and selling and broker costs what are you going to take home. It's got education pieces in there and certain video modules. So it is a software with a Lot of resources that, to help you informed and navigate the sale through the process. And so the 2% option is I don't need necessarily the white glove red carpet. I just need access to the tools to do this right. And the second option is a fully brokered option. And the fully brokered option is I do want a very experienced person to help me navigate this whole thing, to find a buyer to vet, to filter out conversations and, and to help me find the most successful solution here at the best price. And so the fully brokered option starts at 6% so it is lowered. And the reason why Practice Orbit can have a lower brokerage fee is because the technology allows us to use fewer resources to deliver on a sale. We can be, in other words, much more efficient through the use of technology. So it starts at 6% which goes up to a million. And, and then as the price goes higher above that, it scales back from the 6%, it goes down to 5% and then ultimately it can drop down to 4% on the price above that tiered level. And so $2 million practice might sell for around 5% as opposed to the 6% model. Now a couple other important features here is that number one, there's no exclusivity agreement. And this is a risk we take, but we do it because we're so confident that the technology and our buyer pool will be able to deliver that we will lose out if we put in 30, 40 hours of work and then you, the seller end up going to a different broker or selling it outside of the system, not using us. We are so confident that we will take that loss. In other words, we're trying to provide a, or present a model which is a, essentially a no lose model because the broker will get the prospectus ready. They'll do those six things that are advantageous to a broker. While we're trying to eliminate some of these disadvantages so it's less of a risky proposition for the seller and we win. If you win without necessarily tying your hands behind your back on a number of things and doing it at a lower cost. The other feature I want to emphasize here is that as, as a seller, if you use the brokered option and you end up finding your own buyer, meaning you didn't use a Practice Orbit sourced buyer then, but you still want to use the broker to navigate the sale, manage communications, move it forward, use the technology or the software which keeps everybody on the same page moving forward, you still want to use all of those other features of a broker, then you will pay the broker fee, but there's a 30% difference discount for having done the matchmaking yourself. And so we're just trying to create a lot of different options to give a really positive experience for sellers to help them feel confident, feel comfortable going into an agreement with Practice Orbit to sell their dental. Practice Practice Orbit has a team. I am a part of that team. I help out where I am not a broker, but Practice Orbit is a brokerage firm using a broker from our broker who's currently Matt Odgers, who is also a part owner of Practice Orbit and just a great human being who many of you have know from him being on the podcast. So that is some context to Practice Orbit. I hope this was a helpful podcast as you consider whether or not to use a broker when you sell your dental practice. Tune in. You have more episodes coming soon. SA.