The Power of Virtual Consults: How to Bring Cosmetic Dentistry Into Your Practice Like Never Before

Hey, dental associates and new practice owners. Welcome to the Associates on Fire podcast, powered by Practice cfo. This is the podcast that teaches you what you never learned in dental school, the financial side of dentistry. We cover topics from planning for ownership, buying a practice, to student loans, taxes, and all things financial for the hungry to learn. Dental Associate. So let's light it up.

Welcome, everybody, to a new episode of the Associates on Fire program. Today is a. If you're interested in technology, if you're interested in how technology can create a community for you and can bring patients to you without them even coming into your office and expanding your reach, you're going to want to listen to this one. I have Dr. Brian Harris with us today and also a former guest, Weston Spencer, on the show. Both are dentists, GP dentists. Brian, you are in Phoenix, Arizona, is that correct? And welcome to the program, by the way.

Thank you very much. It's, it's, it's a pleasure to be here. Yes, I practice in, in Phoenix, Arizona.

Great. And then Weston Spencer, we know you. You are here in La Jolla, San Diego. Very close to me and one of my good friends and original clients here, if not the first at practice cfo, so honored to have you.

Always, always glad to make sure that we established that I was the first PCF client and hopefully the second to be invited back. I don't know if that, that also might be a first.

So you are, you're breaking precedent left and right here with me. Well, what I want to do just to start off and give some context here with you guys, is just let everybody know of what is Smile Virtual. So the name of your company is Smile Virtual, and it allows doctors to provide Smile Virtual or Virtual consults to individuals. But I want you to expound on that, and then I want to get into your history a little bit. But, Brian, first off, just tell me, what is Smile Virtual? What solution is it providing for doctors?

Yeah, absolutely. So maybe I'll start by telling you what it's not and what it commonly gets confused for. So it is not a smile simulation platform. It is not a live video console platform. I mean, truly, at its core, at the end of the day, most patients just want to know who can they trust for treatment. They want to know what their options are. They want to know what things cost. And so we've created a tool to allow doctors to be able to get in front of more potential new patients and just show those patients who they are as a doctor, the type of work they do in the, in their practice. And answer some simple questions. And what comes from that is, you know, patients walking into your office that already trust you, that already have an idea of what you're going to recommend, they already know the types of services that you do. And so it's, it's generating about 87% case acceptance on high dollar cases because of that. So it's kind of like the, the ultimate way of treatment planning and presenting, you know, extensive cases and, and doing so with the, with a high level of success.

You know, I, one thing Weston told me before the podcast was nobody knows how to use Instagram to generate user or create user generated content better than Dr. Harris. Now there's a lot of great people out there and, and maybe you're, you're the number one. Maybe you're close to it somewhere on, on that list of dentists who use Instagram. But you've, I look, I checked it out. It is impressive. If I'm correct, You've got about 75,000 followers on Instagram, is that right?

Something like that. Maybe a little bit more, maybe a little bit less.

I think a lot more.

So there, and I was just looking at the pictures, there seem to be a lot of.

A lot of females on there smiling, showing these just gorgeous teeth and smiles. And is that where a lot of your patients, is that, is that a lot of the demographics of your patients?

Geez, this is going to be like, I could go on about an hour on that, but. No, let's talk about that. So what, what I've learned over the years is like attracts like, you know, or what's called, you know, in the natural laws of human nature, the law of consensus, which is, you know, I want to do what it seems like everybody else is doing. And so when you get really clear on who your ideal patient is and then you understand how to leverage that and use that and share their stories and their examples, what it does is it turns into more and more ideal patients. And so one of the things we teach at Smile Virtual is how to sit down and really figure out the type of dentistry you love to do and then how to do more of that. And a lot of it has to do with deciding who it is that you want to treat. And then you create a marketing plan around just how to get in front of more of those people. So when you look on my page, it's not that I only treat 25 to 40 year old females, it's just that that probably is my, my biggest patient demographic. And so the more I share those stores, the More we market that, the more of that we get in return. So. So there is some. Some strategy behind that.

I think I can add to that. Brian, before a lot of people realized that there was a. That was like an untapped market, that age demographic. If I, me growing up in cosmetic dentistry, it was like only people with, you know, female females over 50 who finally have the money to be able to do cosmetic dentistry. And so you didn't really feel like that was happening unless it was that demographic. And Brian, in my opinion, blew that door open, at least in my mind. When I met Brian, I didn't look at it that way. I started looking at it differently. And suddenly there was an entire patient base looking for good cosmetic dentistry that nobody was accessing as well. Unless you're using social media, because that's where they are. That's where those patients are. And if you're not in playing in that space and you're not, you don't have access to an incredible group of people who really want to have that confidence through their smile and don't have access to find the right dentist unless you're there.

Oh, no, I, like, I. I absolutely want to jump in on that, because you. You're so right, Weston. And what people forget is that, you know, when we came out of school, it was all the talk about the baby boomers, and they were the ones that had the money, and they were. They were. Were the ones that were spending money on these procedures. But what. What you don't take into account is that, you know, they lived through the whole extreme makeover revolution. They lived through the mid-90s when cosmetic dentistry first came around. And so this is kind of old news to them where these younger generations, it's like they've stumbled on something completely new. They're the ones that are in front of their phone more than anyone else. They're the ones that care the most about what they look like, and they're the ones that are kids of the baby boomers who have all the money. And so it's. And it's not just in cosmetic dentistry. I mean, it's in plastic surgery. It's in. It's in any. I mean, think about, you know, lip fillers and enhancements. It's all that generation because, you know, they. They care about what they look like. And so when you can understand that as a doctor, you're right. You tap into this whole new market of people that are hungry, that are looking for someone to trust, that really don't have a whole lot of knowledge about cosmetic procedures. So once you know how to get in front of them, it's, you know, it's, it's not difficult to, to gain their trust.

For a long time, I always wondered, what could Instagram possibly do for a dentist? Well, you've clearly answered that question. When I'm on there, I can just feel, I can see, I can tell the excitement that is just swirling on your Instagram page. It's like people are wanting to.

Exhibit or demo almost their, their smile. They're just so thrilled about it. And for human beings, and I think for that demographic particularly, it's a very important part of their life. It's a, it's a very important part of their image and they see it every day in the mirror and, and it matters. And also from seeing that, how you guys are describing, we've been able to access a new part of the market, a new part of sort of the patient market, particularly in the area of cosmetics that really wasn't as accessible before through this sort of virtual channel and as, as you've done. So I could see how this pairs up so well with social media because people pay for what they perceive as, as value. And different people have different perceptions of value. I've mentioned on a couple of my podcasts, I love tennis and my boys play tennis competitively. And it's not cheap, it's not a cheap sport essay, soccer, but it's something I'm passionate about. To me, it's value. If I ask Weston here on the call, he'd probably say, I would never go pay that money for tennis rackets and stringing and tournaments and coaching and clinics because it's not perceived as value to him. To me, it's perceived as value. Well, a, a good smile, beautiful smile is. I could see this being perceived as a lot of value. And what social media does is it sort of surfaces that perception and helps others find sort of a solution that meets that desire for, for that particular value in their, in their life where before they're, they're confused, there's so many dentists out there, they will say different things. Who's best clinically, who's going to give me that smile that just, you know, gets me excited in the morning, who's going to do that? And what happens is they end up not acting on it. And, but, but if they go to a doctor or they see this is what I could look like, it's almost like cost becomes less relevant. I won't say irrelevant, but it becomes less relevant because it's There it is. That's what I'm looking for. And I have searched for a long time for. In fact, I didn't even know that solution existed. Yeah, we'll talk about cost later. Just tell me how I get started. Is, is I suspect how some of this, some of this may go. So that's, that's a good context to Smile Virtual. I want to go back a little bit in your history. I'm always interested in people's histories. One of my favorite podcasts is called How I Built this with a guy named Guy Raz. And he interviews business founders who have, you know, seen a lot of success and even failures. And he always goes back into their history. I want to do that a little bit with, with you. You've been out of dental school for, for how long, Brian?

About 17 years now.

I've been in practice and from my understanding, you joined family, family practice. And it wasn't just your standalone four or five op practice. Tell me when that was, what style of practice it was, what style of dentistry you did, and then tell me at what point did you pivot into this.

This technology? Was it just for you? What was your motivator behind that?

Yeah, so I, you know, I had the, the benefit of growing up in a dental family. My dad is and was a dentist. He, in the mid-90s, was one of the first doctors to really hop on that train of, of cosmetic dentistry. And, and one of the, one of the real innovators in that space. And so what I saw in high school is, you know, a man go from going to work every day and just doing dentistry and it was a job to, you know, to change into somebody who really felt empowered to, to help people and, and really, you know, saw him changing lives and so I saw how it got him excited and I think that was the first time I ever was like, you know what? I could do this. Like, this would be a cool thing to do. I didn't look at dentistry that way before that and so went to dental school. My older brother's a dentist, my younger brother's a dentist. We were all two years apart at University of the Pacific in San Francisco. My youngest brother owns a dental lab and then my father in law is a dentist. And so it's kind of always been, it's just always been a part of my life. And so came out of school, just went to work like most dentists do, general dentistry, because my dad was doing a lot of cosmetics at that time. I got introduced at an early age at doing small Designs. And so I do, you know, about one every month or two, and. And things just progressed. And it was about maybe probably four, three, four years ago now that everything shifted. So we started when I joined the practice. I think we were doing maybe. Is it okay to talk about numbers on here? Okay. And this is coming from a place of just, you know, factual information. I learned a long time ago that numbers really mean nothing. You know, it's profitability. That's everything. You can have a. A practice that produces a ton, but. But take home very little or one that produces very little and take home a lot more. But just. Yeah, no, I know. For sure. I've owned both actually, too, so. But no, so we. We were doing maybe like 1.2 when I first joined the practice. And, and we grew it to about three years ago, we were doing, you know, a two and a half doctor practice. I think we got it up to about4.4 million, which was. Which was awesome, you know, so we were seeing success. We were busy. We had a great reputation in town.

Was that one location or multiple locations?

Location. Yeah, we did have multiple locations at one time, but that was primarily our. Just our. Our Phoenix office.

And so that's when social media really came onto the scene. And we had a friend that was a hairdresser and started like, posting pictures of hair on Instagram that she was. That she was doing these hair extensions. And. And we saw her business go from like a little, you know, somebody that just enjoyed doing hair extensions to, you know, flying all over the world and treating celebrities and people flying in to see her. And it was purely because she was able to show the world who she was and what she did. And so my wife, you know, at the time was like, brian, you should be doing that. And I pushed back because it felt super, super weird. At that time, nobody was posting pictures of teeth. I mean, it felt, you know, just. It just felt like I was going to be judged by everybody, which I probably was. You know, dentists. Dentists are very judgmental, as you know, But I always encourage doctors like, you got to get over that. Because I got over it and I started just posting cases. They weren't the greatest cases. It was just. Just cosmetic dentistry, you know, Smile Designs, whitening, Invisalign. And what I found is that because it was me as a human being posting on there and sharing different cases, people felt comfortable reaching out. And so they would start messaging me. And, you know, instead of the traditional, hey, come into the office for a consult, I started just giving advice through my phone back to them. And then eventually I was like, you know, what if I just recorded a video of myself going over their options? And that's just when everything exploded. It went from, you know, a Smile Design case once a month to Tolson, it was every week. And here we are about three years later and, you know, we took that 4 million, 4 million dollar practice. We'll do about 8 million this year. Really. No more manpower, just, just a lot more big cases coming through. And the most important part of all of it, though, was.

Not only did it allow me to do more of what I love to do, but I think it's almost like serving people at the highest level because you're, you're offering this information for free, right? You're giving people your time, your expertise. You're, you're really just there to help them see, hey, here's what you could do. Here's how it's going to impact your life. Here's what it's going to cost. When you're ready, I'd love to work with you. And that alone, it breaks down all the barriers that they put up and, and the trust is there. So whether or not they do it now or they do it five years from now, if they're going to do it, they're going to do it with you because you were there to, to help them, knowing that they may not move forward with treatment, but you still gave them your time. So I can go on for hours about it, but that, I mean, that's really the story. So, you know, here we are, you know, three, four years later and, and booked out six months in advance. And Weston knows, I mean, he's, he's seen the same type of growth and success in his practice to, to some degree implementing the same principles. So that's, that's kind of when, when I saw that happen about three years ago, I'm like, if it's working for me, you know, I'm a dentist in Phoenix, Arizona. You know, I'm not in Beverly Hills, I'm not in Manhattan. It's got to work for other people. And, and we started west and was actually one of the first doctors to get in and use the initial platform. We had about 12 doctors, kind of just this hodgepodge, you know, software platform that threw together and, and now we're about 450 doctors on the platform. And then, you know, success stories all over the world of people like Wes that have had similar success just by implementing those same principles.

Weston, you seem to be an early adopter of things.

I'm just not the guy coming up with the good idea. I'm the second guy who believes in the good idea and takes it and runs with it.

That might be the best.

You don't have to put in all the arduous late nights of figuring out how to build something. No.

But if I could, if I can add to that origin story here, like my.

It's.

It was really cool for me. If I look back, I was just starting. I. I had a small four op practice. I took over a very blue collar practice. I was, I'm the first person to do veneers in this practice. And it'd been around for 20 plus years. So I'm starting to do a little bit, working with a good lab. I was really proud of the dentistry I was doing. I wanted to do so much more than I was doing though. And I only had access to my patients and word of mouth. I really hadn't spent any money on Google. I hadn't done a whole lot of stuff. But I really wanted to grow in that space. And I was just a young. Nobody knew who I was. You know, I had good. And I'm in La Jolla. There's a lot of really good cosmetic doctors here in town. Really good. And how do I compete with that? I met Brian, he gave a lecture really in the early onset. And he wasn't talking to Dennis, he was talking to the Cable Kerr reps, their like annual meeting. And just talking about what he was doing. And it, oh my gosh, it like of all the things that stuck, struck home. I'm like, this is how I reach these patients. And, And I remember Brian said to me after, he's like, Wesley, it's nuts, man. Like there are so many patients. And here's where things started to change. It made it sound at first like Brian had so many patients that he just needed me to see the extras. That's what I'm like, okay, dude, I'm in. Tell me how I can do all the people you can't see. But what Brian is good at is Brian, he doesn't hand you the fish, right? And just say, here's a bunch of fish. Wes, go do cosmetic dentistry on there. He teaches you how to go find the fish the way he found the fish and then use your own way of doing it. Right. And so that's what was. That's where at the moment that it switches like, oh, this is going to take a lot of work to do what Brian is saying to do. But I was like, you know what, though? I really, really want to do it. And. And he made it fun. And, like, had a platform, the small virtual platform. Even though it was kind janky, we were using some really fun, like PowerPoint. And what. What were we first. Even before Loom. What was it?

It was some desktop recorder and PowerPoint and.

But it worked, man. The minute I turned on, I started posting cases. If you go back to the beginning, my cases weren't very good.

I.

It was me doing stupid pictures of myself. My wife was the opposite. She was like, don't do this. You sound like an idiot. Like, and. But I said, no, it's gonna work. And instantly people started reaching out, right? Instantly. And I started doing. Treating those cases. So it was interesting, like, going back on that and looking where we are today. And I say we because I've been following with Brian, and he's really showed me so many ways to continue to reach out and then change the mindset of how to build a practice around that. And that, to me, is more what small virtual is now like. The platform to me represents 15% of how you use the Smile virtual platform. Doing virtual consults is a very, very small piece of the mindset of being a Smile virtual dentist. It's more like, how do I build a practice and do the kind of dentistry I want to do and get access to the patients that are seeking me out? And then suddenly that door opens and then you can. And then you can build a practice around it.

Hey, a couple things on that. And first of all, I've been with you, Weston, as you know, since the beginning you bought your practice. Was it 2015 or 16?

14?

2014, man. Been a while. And of that, I mean, I've seen your. I think I'm pretty accurate on this, but I think I. I've seen your collections triple during. During that time. I remember when you first bought the practice and the goal was, hey, let's get to a million a year. That was kind of the goal. Blew past that a long time ago. How much do you think that this.

That this software and almost like this club by. By the way, Brian, I mean, are you a software company? Are you a marketing platform? Are you an education study club? Are you all of the above? It's.

It's all, you know, it's all the above. And it really is. I mean, Weston, that was so perfect how you put it. And I've never explained it that way, but it's like, yes, the software, the tool we use to be able to record, to be able to send to patients, to communicate back and forth. It's a. It's a huge part of the success. Right, but it's, it's really just. It's really just the tool. So much of the success is the mindset and understanding how you need to slow down and not try to jam so many patients in the day. Create a little bit of time for yourself. You know, record six consults in one hour instead of spending one hour with one patient that's not prepared to move forward because they have no idea what their options even are or what things cost. And so, you know, it's. While it is a software platform, we spend a lot of time training, educating, coaching, mentoring doctors, just, you know, how to, how to change the way they see the business of dentistry and, and do it a little bit differently.

Out of curiosity, does the software somehow link up directly to their Instagram account or they basically, separately, outside of the software, upload photos?

Yeah. So, yeah, if you think of the software almost like a funnel, the goal is to, to go to your main webpage, your office website, to go to Instagram, to go to Facebook, to go to LinkedIn, anywhere that you can put this link, the Smile Virtual link, and then you drive all your traffic to that link. The reason you want to do that is once you, Once they click on the link, now they're in the platform. Once you gather their name, their phone number, their email, what they look like, because they'll submit a Smile photo. Now you have, like, all. All that you need to be able to go back and market to them down the road if they don't move forward. And, you know, like, you have a physical list of the people out there that are interested in improving their smile. There's nothing else out there in dentistry that exists like that. You know, the only time you ever get that information is when they actually step foot in your practice. And so, so, yes, it's. It links up to wherever you want to put it. And the goal is just to drive the traffic through there so you can control that sales process.

Weston, coming back to my earlier question, how instrumental do you think Smile Virtual has been in the tripling of your top line?

I would say very, very big. You know, if you look at where I was three years ago and I met Brian and started kind of going on this journey, putting in the work to build a brand online that I was proud of. I had these goals. I wanted to move into a bigger space. I always wanted to, but didn't have the revenue probably to support it. And as I Started to see more of these cases come in. You know, obviously that those are profitable. So we started seeing, you know, higher collection rates and felt a lot more comfortable than you. And I started talking about, am I in a position where I can grow into a bigger space? Not only was it going to allow me to do more dentistry, but also would give me a space that represented the kind of dentistry I wanted to do before. I felt like I was in like a four operatory cave. It was a dark space and it was just didn't represent, you know what I say I am, which is a person who helps you build confidence, feel good about yourself. You walked into my space there. It was like, this is guy, like, is he good at dentistry? Like, it did not represent who I was. And so. And I never had the confidence in myself really as a dentist until I started putting myself out there. And then people started reaching out and now it's like, okay, I know I can do this. And people are saying yes. So that gave me more and more confidence. And you know, as you get more confident in what you do, that just breeds more energy to go out and create more. And so I did that. And I would say, I mean, I texted Brian. Brian challenged a lot of the. There's a, there's a smaller group of a mastermind of dentists within the Smile. You know, he says there's 450 doctors, which is incredible to me. Now, right amongst that, there's probably about what, 40 to 55 right now? Yeah, 45 who, you know, put in a little bit more time, a little bit more, you know, investment into Smile Virtual in terms of getting access to Brian and a smaller group of like minded doctors who are really pushing hard against each other. And last year, year and a half ago, I think you challenged all of us to, you know, increase by 25%. Was that the goal at the San Diego meeting?

Yeah, yeah, it was 25%. And that was in 2020. That was right in the middle of.

COVID Right in the middle of COVID He's like, hey, let's increase this by 25%. And we're like, whoa, Now I know everybody's experienced some upside after Covid. If you were doing marketing, right, you're doing, you're treating people good, everybody's up, right? But I texted him, I'm like, dude, since that conversation, I'm up 75%. And I was like, dude, like, this is like. Because people now more than ever are connecting digitally with each other on zoom. And it's just like, it's constant now. So Smile Virtual allowed me to be instantly already in the game and already with the momentum to connect with people virtually. And so I feel like I had a head start on a lot of people because all of a sudden everybody wanted to be a virtual dentist. After Covid, we already had the platform, but we were more focused on, hey, suddenly there's also a lot of people that want to like take care of themselves right now and invest in themselves. And small virtual gave us the ability to do that. So yeah, it's been a massive, massive boom for me and give me the confidence to build a nice practice now a bigger practice. You know, I give a lot of credit to Brian who's been there and been a mentor for me to do that. But I had to do the work myself and have the confidence in myself to kind of do it too. And he was there for that.

As somebody who works with a lot of dentists here at practice CFO, we have, we have seven advisors, five lead advisors who all work with somewhere around 50 to 60 doctors. And we know some of these doctors as Smile Virtual doctors. In fact, we, thanks to you, Brian. We were in Weston. We were introduced to a doctor in Salt Lake who has become just one of our favorite people and an excuse for us to go and snowboard when we go see him. And he has a very successful practice. It's almost like the status quo of a doctor who has really invested him or herself into Smile Virtual. And I love to see that success. And I, I contrast it with, I hate to use the word contrast. I'll. I compare it with a doctor who I spoke with this morning who is really near and dear to my heart because I had been working with this person even before I started practice. Cfo. No offense there, Weston. This person goes way back with me and she has a big practice here in San Diego that's doing about three and a half million top line. Bottom line before paying her is about 11 or 12%. And so the, the overhead is, is running almost 90% and working too much and just not enough cash flow. Part of the reason why, a lot of the reason why is because she has taken HMO clients over time and a lot of insurance driven.

It's a very insurance driven practice. And so ultimately I let her know, you are one of the most talented doctors I know. She has a number of awards. Clinically, she comes from a pretty prestigious lineage in her father who was an academic. She's very well spoken and. And yet it hasn't translated into the economic success that I think she deserves, and I think there's a lot of doctors out there who don't know how to get the right patients in the chair. And they are trying to be the, you know, the cheap airline instead of focusing on how do I present something that my patient base will view as valuable. And it's not about insurance and not even about cost. It's about providing them something that matters in their life. And that's what fee for service dentistry is. It's all about that. It's all about profiling yourself as somebody who creates value in their life and not just make some pain go away. And, and so that's what I love about Virtual Smile Virtual is that it's one of the few technologies that I'm aware of that not only provides the technology but the education venue for doctors to come together and say, how do I do this? How do I get out of this sort of cage and cross a bridge into a place where not only am I more successful as a doctor, economically, I'm enjoying my time more. Perhaps I don't even have to work as much. And my patients are smiling ear to ear when they leave because of their experience with me. I mean, it's the best of all, all worlds. And Smile Virtual seems to me like it creates a tool for doctors to cross that bridge. I'm not saying it's easy, I'm sure it's, it's not. But it gives them a tool to, to be able to, to, to do that. I do want to ask you, Brandon, do you want to comment on that.

Before I do, really quick? I mean, I think, yes, I think it really is, it is a tool that allows you kind of take back the control of your own practice. So the question I have for you, not to put you on the spot, but what do you think? Like, what are the two, probably the two big things that, or even just one that, you know, doctors are listening to this, right? We'll have thousands of doctors listen to this. They're all going to hear the same message. Some will be inspired to change, some won't. And that's just, I mean, that's just human nature. But we, you think the one thing is that holds a lot of people up from.

Implementing something like this.

You know, I think one of it is going to be possibly self doubt.

You are exposing yourself when you go and you put your, the results of your treatment for the world to see. You know, it's almost like exposing your, you know, bank account or the status of your, your marriage. You know, it's like you're putting something that's a bit personal and you're putting it, putting it out there. I think that's one. I also think that change in routine is always hard. But, but I'm curious how much of this requires a change in routine and behavior and perception of your team. Because when I generally think of a challenge, doctors challenge to change, it's usually because it's not just about them, it's about their whole team and the culture. And there's often a ton of pushback when you're trying to change something fundamental in the practice. Have you found that to be an issue as doctors have tried to implement your, your way of, you know, introducing patients to your practice?

Yeah, for sure. You actually hit both of the, the things that I was going to comment on, on the head and, and, and the first one was that self doubt, you know, because people will be like, well, Brian's already doing it, Wes is already doing it. All these 450 doctors are, I'm, it's too late, you know, if they're doing it, me starting now, it's just going to look stupid. It's just going to look like I'm trying to follow what they're doing. And it's like that's, that's doctors just getting in their own way and not.

Not, not giving themselves a chance to like, really have the success they deserve. And the second piece of that is, is time and, and time to change. You mentioned, you know, getting your team on the same page. So it's, it's that and it's also just like the actual time to change and, and reserving that time and saying, you know what, if I am going to change the way I practice, I've got to start scheduling myself differently. I got to start scheduling open time that I can devote to things like this. And that's scary because people feel like if they're not busy, they're not going to be making money. Going back to the doctor you're talking about, you know, it's, it's like, it's like going and working out at the gym three times a day and doing the same muscle groups every time you work out and you get like three months down the road and you're like, why am I not, why am I not bigger, right? You're exhausted. You have, you, you give your muscles like no time to grow and it's, it's just such an inefficient way to work. It's the same thing with operating a business when you're at it that hard every single day and, and you don't really stop to think about what it is that you're doing. You know, we have doctors doing procedures that they literally lose money every time they sit down to to work on a patient because of overhead costs and things like that. So. So yeah, I mean, I think, I think team is a huge factor if the doctors in the right mindset and they try to take it back and implement these things and the team's not on board, never works.

You know, it makes me think of the phrase it takes money to earn money. We've all heard of that, but literally in the moment, I'm thinking of how that relates to time. It takes time to earn time. And so much we want to create time in our lives for different things that matter to us. But you have to almost step back a little bit and say, if I'm going to implement any change, if I'm going to implement Smile Virtual, I have to learn how the software works. And we all know with the bazillion technologies and softwares in our life that there's always a learning curve to it. And a lot of those softwares end up not being as productive as we believed they were going to be. And so there's some, maybe some doubt there. And then there's the can. Now I need to have an active social media account. I have to take some time to, to do that. I'm gonna have to take time to have questions and answer. Answer questions from people and even my own staff. I'm gonna have to take time to now train them on this because there's going to be a certain amount of the administrative task that might be delegated to your, your team on this. And you have to, you have to invest in your time. Right now, I think that might be an inhibitor to change or adoption of something like that is just. You're already struggling on time. You don't know if this is going to actually end up providing a return economically to you or not, because you're not doing it. So it's, you know, it's an unknown still at, you know, at some level and, and you got to go and get people on board. And so, and that's applies to so much.

It's like anything else, right? It's, I mean, it's, it's like any change, even like placing dental implants or doing sleep apnea or. It's why we, we start so many things and we never actually get good at it because it is, it's hard. It's frustrating. But, you know, I would say, Drew, that, you know, that's probably the number one misconception is you really don't have to be great at social media. You don't have to do all these things. Like, you can, you can start even with the basic principles and only use it with patients in your practice. You know, only use it with people after they've come in and still, you know, substantially increase your case acceptance now. Yeah, once you start to see how well it works, you're going to want to do the other stuff because it just, it changes the game. It makes it, it makes it so you literally never have to feel like you have to sell anything ever again to a patient. You know, you don't have to convince anybody. You're just there to, to show them what's possible. And, and when you do it in the right way, they, they move forward.

Would you say that you earn more now on less time than you did five years ago?

I could see that little smile start to form like, Wes, what are you thinking of?

I'm working today. And he sticks an entire trailer. What's the deal?

Hey, I got home late last night. No, Was that like 3pm? It was like 1am so. So no, for sure. And you know, I could say that for myself, but I can, I can speak for Wes too. You know, I think anybody that's experienced it, it's, it's, it's such a blessing. Right? And yeah, it comes with effort. I love that Wes is honest about it. Like, no, it doesn't just happen overnight. You gotta, you gotta put the effort in. But you know, I think for as hard as we work already and for the risks we take and the debt we go into, geez, like, I think we all deserve to be as successful as we want to be and that's going to be different for everybody. But, but yeah, I mean, it's, it's totally different.

Can we take just a couple minutes and talk about the mechanics of the, of the software? If somebody decides they want to use the software, first of all, are they, Are they, are they. Is there a purchase price of the software or is it more of a licensing subscription arrangement?

Yeah, so it's a monthly fee. So. So it's a 3.99amonth is what it costs. And that gets you access to the platform storage for all your cases. People underestimate how much it costs to store thousands of videos in a HIPAA compliant fashion. In the cloud, we don't charge for data storage, it's just that fee Covers the software, the storage, access to my team, monthly calls, coaching calls, an online training platform, a ton of different marketing materials, social media guides, basically everything you need to be successful, it's there. It's just you got to take the time to go and use it.

So, so I sign up and I agree. Is it, is it a 12 month commitment? Is it month to month?

It's six months. Yeah, we do six months. You got. I, you know, if people aren't ready to put at least six months in, then timing's not right, you know, and that's okay. But you know, you gotta, you gotta at least put the time in to, to give it time to work. But after that we go month to month. I'm a firm believer in if you don't feel like it's working for you, you know, then, then it's not a good fit, you know, and, and, and you know, at that point, like you're, you're free to cancel. You know, we don't see a lot of that, but we do, we see people that, that, that churn out and, and move on because they, they never really took the time to implement it. But, but yeah, it's six months, month to month after that. Wes talked about a group called Elite. That's different. You know, that's a, that's a mastermind, smaller group of people. They get access to a lot more. We can go over that at some other time, but you know, a lot more coaching, a lot more of my time, a lot more of the, the secret behind the scenes stuff that, the, that's happening in the world of, of social media and cosmetic dentistry and, and a lot of stuff like that. They get each other and they get a couple meetings every year, retreats like the one we did at your office. You know, you were awesome to have us there where we bring another speaker. So it's, I mean, it's great. The whole purpose of that group though, that's for those that are ready to grow. That's for those that are like, okay, I'm ready to grow by 75%, I'm ready to grow by 50%. And you know, because of that they have more skin in the game.

That's when it becomes a lot more than a, than a software and more of a, of a group and an education and motivating platform for people in addition to this or built on the software in some ways.

Wes, can I just add really quick to that because sometimes people, I, if people are listening to this that are thinking to themselves, okay, what are the financials on this and what is it cost to invest in this and I my counter all that is like you're gonna spend money on CE every year. Right. And most of us have like kind of a CE budget. Whether you put it into that realm or whatever you're going to put it into. To me there's, there's, there's very few of those types of experiences that you're going to spend money on already to make yourself a better dentist that they're hard to give you as much roi. I think the only thing you can find put out there certainly like you have invest in Kois or Spear. You're going to go, you're going to be a better dentist, you're going to see more, so you're going to diagnose more dentistry. Right. But with this one, to me it's like your mind starts to change once you experience even a little bit. If you get one person to connect with you virtually, then show up in the office and they already know how much the treatment's going to cost. So they're basically just there to confirm that you are who you say you are and that you, you know, connect with them and show them the final treatment plan and then they say yes, and you do it that one time pay for the entire year. Right. So it to me, the cost of it, if people are kind of debating it, that's the no brainer to me people really should be thinking of am I ready to invest the time in really growing my practice and doing this if I'm really passionate about it. Right. That to me is the big difference maker of whether or not you're kind of ready to take a next step even within Smile Virtual or go from where you are now, because none of it's easy. But I can promise that it's a whole heck of a lot more fun to do that kind of dentistry and grow that way and put the time into that than it is. Like I'm going to go to a sleep apnea course and I'm going to start trying to bill medically. Like really, does anybody have fun doing that? Like I, I don't know one dentist that really is as passionate about CPAPs or non CPAPs as they are about like building beautiful smiles and tell me which one's more fun to like spend more time doing. Right. So anyway, that was my justification for it to get started and, and then start committing.

Well put there. You know, I'm a numbers guy, so let me do a little bit of numbers here. It's 3.99amonth. Is that right, Brian? 909amonth.

All right.

Times 12 is $4,788. If you want a 40% profit margin, I'm going to divide that by 0.4. I get to $11,970. That's the case you need to get in order to cover your cost where 60% goes to cover your overhead. What do you think your average case is.

As a single case coming in to do some veneers or other cosmetic dentistry?

Yeah, I think I'm at a point now where that fee is probably average of around like 18,000 for, for a case. But there was a time when I first was getting started that it was probably in that.

Probably 8 to 8 to 12 thousand dollar range. So I mean really, you know, it's a couple cases. Yeah, it could be one full mouth case and yeah, you paid for it for two years. But it doesn't take much to, to, to justify the value. I think, I think where we get stuck a lot in dentistry we're so used to like we have to pay for so many freaking softwares.

Right.

And I feel like they're all 399amonth. Like they're all like right at that same fee. And so after a while you start lumping all those little 399 fees into kind of the same category of like, you know, is it really necessary to operate the print practice? And, and I think that's why we try to help doctors understand that no, it's not that this isn't just a tool like this. This really is a different way to do things. And, and yeah, one or two cases.

And you know why? Yeah. And I run those numbers to confirm Weston's point, which is it's really a no brainer that if this works at any level, it's going to cover itself and generate some net profit to you.

The reason why I think this software is perhaps more valuable than one of the many other dental softwares is, at least economically speaking, from a, from a financial standpoint, which is I, the lens that I view the world of dentistry through inherently in my job is top line. The problem tends to be top line. It's not because you're overpaying your assistant $2 an hour. It's not because you're not getting the best deal on your supplies. It's because you're not generating enough out of the chair. And this is a software that directly targets top line, am I right? I mean it's directly targeting top line. You're getting rid of the PPOs and the HMOs and you're getting people to actually pay your UCR and a good one.

Yeah, no, you are. And it's, I think that's when I realized that. When I realized like, oh, even if you look at your practice now, I mean, what you're doing and the bills you're paying and like a, most of us are covering our overhead. And so anything else that we produce really is where the profit lies. And so when you can just learn how to move the needle up here, like you're saying top line, just grow that production, you know, that's, that's when I realized, like, oh, that's how you take home twice as much. It's not that you have to grow your practice from, you know, 1 million to 2.5 million. No, it's just growing from a million to a million four, but keeping the same overhead, just doing more profitable stuff. It's literally twice as much take home. And so you're absolutely right. It's just, and some of us know that it's just, okay, well, how do you get there?

Yep, that's the economics of fixed costs. And you guys are by and large fixed cost types of businesses now going back to just that mechanical process. I sign up, then I get the technology, and then people start to find me. People will take a picture on their phone, they'll upload it, then I see it, I can sort of overlay a design and, and send it back to them. And then they have a choice to say yes or no and schedule the visit. Is that the long and short of the process?

Yeah, you can do that. What most doctors do is they'll get the photos, the platform set up in a way where I can sit down as a doctor, open it, see a lead as it's come through, see what they're asking for. And then you, you have preset images that you've uploaded, slides, different things where you go and click six or eight images and it pre populates a presentation. So when you're ready, you hit record. And then it's just like me talking right now to you, but on video. And it's so, so what the patient sees is they see your screen scrolling through this presentation, explaining things, showing them what's possible. They see you in the bottom left hand corner talking to them directly. So it's almost like their own PowerPoint customized presentation for them that they watch on their couch at home before they ever come in to see you. So it's like they get the best of you. And when I say the best of you, like, if you screw up good, just stop and rerecord so they truly get the best of you. And I think that's what makes it so powerful.

Are they. Have they paid anything up to this point? If I find you and I say I want Dr. Brian Harris to do the full case on me with veneers and whatnot, and you're in Arizona and I'm in California, but you happen to be the doctor I came across and love all your Instagram and all your raving fans. Do I fly? I fly to you then, I assume. And how often is, is that happening?

Yeah, so that's about, that's more than half right now. And that's, that's the, the cool thing about where, where, where we are now is, you know, it's so, it feels so good to be able to say, you know what? I would love to see you. It's going to be quite a bit of a wait, you know, but, you know, when you're ready, I'm here for you. But you've got somebody right there in your backyard that's amazing and super talented. I'm going to screenshot some of his stuff. I'll send it to you. You know, I can go in, send them Wes's stuff and say, you know, if you don't want to travel or you don't want to wait, you know, there's. You got one of the best right there right in your hometown. And, and usually what I'll say is, most of the time people don't know that people are that good right close by them. And, and they don't know if there's that trust there. Well, I'm telling you, yeah, you can trust them. And so it's kind of a cool thing. Thing that's happening now, not just from me sending patients to other small virtual doctors, but within the community, people referring patients to, to people back and forth.

Weston, have you found patients will fly to you because they found your Instagram pictures and, and they come to you from a distance?

Yeah, I'm not half.

But.

Yes. I mean, that's what's incredible. Like, I. Within months of connecting on social media, I had somebody fly out from Baltimore, you know, and again, like to go to my point, like, I was just kind of coming up in the cosmetic space and I'm not no big name out there, but I wanted to be present and be in a conversation when all these other amazing cosmetic dentists. And now I have someone flying from across the country to see me. Like, that's the difference, right? Like, that didn't exist before, and, and now it does. And one, it makes you feel better like that, wow, I'm really happy that somebody trusted me that much that they would be willing to do that. And then two, you build on that and you get to share that story. And all of a sudden there's more people who are willing to do the same because you were able to share his story. And they believe that. They trust that. So now they're going to come from Hawaii or they're going to come from Northern California or wherever they come. You know, just to see you. That's about the biggest honor I think a dentist can have is that somebody's willing to travel that far just to see you because they trust you that much. And all they got was your Instagram feed and a virtual console. Right.

That's impressive. I want to end off on one question for you, Bryant. You have a partner in this. Her name is Jen Rhodes. How valuable has it been to have a partner would even have been? And I asked this because I actually have clients who sometimes want to try this or experiment with that on some. Something related to dentistry, but not directly dentistry itself. How important do you. Has it been to have a partner? And, and what role has she played for you or with you as a partner?

Oh, yeah, I mean, I could have. I could have never done what I've done without her. I mean, she's, she's been great. You know, the, the key is finding the right partner. You know, the, you know, the difference between a visionary and an integrator. You know, I can come up with all these crazy ideas is she's the one that actually, you know, is smart enough to go and put them in. In place and, and to. To run and operate everything. So. So, no, I mean, that's a huge part of the success of Smile Virtual was, was Jen and her time and effort and strategy spent kind of creating.

These concepts with me for associates. Since this podcast is a part of our Associates on Fire program, can associates use Smile Virtual even if they do not own a practice?

Yep, they can. They can, they can go through the process and either pay themselves or a lot of doctors, you know, have their, their owner doctor pay the fee for them, because the owner doctors see it as a way to, to create a funnel of new patients for their associates, you know, completely separate from what they currently have going on.

Well, I'm just gonna thank you, Brian, for Dr. Brian Harris, for being with us and Dr. Wallace, Weston, Spencer as well for being a user. A case study of your experience. I've seen the success in your practice, Dr. Harris. You'll sign up with me at some point, then I'll see your own success.

Do my own marketing here with you. Let me just say the reason why I see this is so valuable is, gosh, when I go on Amazon and I'm able to get user reviews and see pictures and have people comment on it, I cannot just as you guys know and everybody listening to this probably knows that makes me more comfortable than if I were actually handling that product physically. And that same thing I think is applying here, that level of comfort that you're bringing to people who may be states away from you to say, that's what I want and I'm going to pay. I'm going to pay for that and I'm going to fly to get that, whatever that is. It goes to show just how powerful this software in this group and this platform can be for dentists. I know if I were dentist this would be, and I'm not just saying this because you're here on the podcast with me. This would be a no brainer for me because I'd be shooting for fee for service. Like I tell all my clients, I would engage heavily and deeply in this. I'm a big fan of technology. The new generation is all over social media. A lot of the type of patients you want and are willing to pay are on social media. This is a great platform. Brian, thanks for being with us on the podcast today.

Thank you guys. It's awesome. I really appreciate.

And thanks west and you two for joining.

Thanks West. Appreciate it, man.