Data Driven Technology is the Key to Supply Chain Challenges | Natori, Colorkarma | PI Apparel

So thank you very much. We are here to talk about data-driven technology. This session is sponsored by Electra. And before I get started, I want to just kind of talk for a second about what we're talking about here, which is this circular economy of how we plan, we analyze, we use data to make business decisions and recirculate those decisions back into the business to continue that cycle and improve. So to help the fashion industry with its sustainable social responsibility, Lectra offers solutions for each phase of the fashion production process. These solutions enable businesses to reduce costs and make things simpler, easier. I always say, make my life easier. They improve the way fashion companies plan, source, design, develop, produce, and sell fashion products. I'd like to welcome the panel. To my right, I have Ken Natori, president of Natori. Thank you for being here.

It's a big coincidence.

Big coincidence. You know how that name looks familiar. Mira— Mariah. Mariah. I've been practicing it wrong, so right there, Mariah, SVP of merchandising. Design. Yep, and design. Thank you. And Jim from FIT, so Wacol and FIT, correct?

Yes.

So thank you very much for being here. My name is Shoshana Burgett. I am a consultant in the industry. I also write on Color Karma about design for manufacturing. How do you help designers, educate them to manufacturing, to that next level? So if anybody has not read the news lately, we still have supply chain issues. I just pulled that data this morning. That's from 2 weeks ago. 130 containers still sitting north out of a North America port, just 27% off the West Coast. So there's a queue to get in here and get those supplies in here and finished goods. And today Amtrak canceled all the long-distance trains. And freights are supposed to go on strike tomorrow. So we are really talking here, saying a small prayer of maybe, maybe. Conclusions. But so you're actually my first question here because we talk about the supply chain and disruption. Planning is a complex logistical complexity for merchandisers. What are some from a merchandiser, Mariah, I got it right this time, that you encounter in your role?

Well, I think, I think the thing that we're struggling with the most right now is obviously the lead times are extremely long, but also the fact that since the whole supply chain is disrupted, a lot of our fabric mills that we work with are not securing the yarns that they need for the materials that they're showing early enough. So when we buy off of, or when we select off of their sample lines, they don't have material behind it. So that's becoming a bigger issue and it's creating a lot more conversation that we're having to have at the very early sample stage where we're having to ask, okay, if we're interested in this, what type of supply chain What stock do you have on it? Are we able to get mid-spec within 6 weeks? And what's happening is there's nothing on the shelf. So there's a lack of innovation from the fabric mills that have material behind it, which is affecting our ability to actually design and fit fast because we're waiting for materials to come in for mid-spec in order to accurately assess if the material could be— is fit for purpose, which then affects our ability to adopt the fabric, which affects our production schedule in order to buy the material to go to and bup, bup, bup, bup, bup. So it's not only just getting it here for production, it's actually for our team, it's getting the material to even make samples with to fit.

So what are some of the changes you and your team have been going through to manage those materials and SKUs? And you're shaking your head.

It's a nightmare. So we're literally having to co-develop fabrics. So when we have, instead of having a concept meeting, like we used to have in the past where we would sample off of, you know, material suppliers' lines. We're actually developing fabrics from the beginning with them, 'cause there really isn't much of a sample line to select from. So from the onset of our process, we're having to make earlier commitments on what are we looking for in the material? And we're working with them from the very beginning to get it to function the way we need to, essentially pulling things up, It's like almost 3 months earlier. So we're co-developing, which has its benefits when you have a unique concept that you're trying to execute, but it also limits creativity for the design team 'cause they're not being inspired by what's new in the supply chain.

It's what's available.

It's what's, or not available. You have to come up with the idea to then have something to work with, which sometimes is great. But a lot of times the creative process is iterative and you have to interact act both ways. Like, you have— you see something, you like it, then you want to tweak it or manipulate in some way. Now you have to think about what it is that you want and then work with the mill to co-develop it in order to get it on your schedule. And our schedule has been expedited.

Thank you. So, Ken, if I go to you now, um, Natori started out as a small, intimate apparel, East meets West kind of brand. You now have expanded to a multitude of categories, men's footwear, and now go direct to consumer. Talk to us about some of that evolution in that direct to consumer.

Yes, so we've always been most known in the marketplace for our sleepwear and for our bras and underwear. Our mission over the last 10 years has really been to take the brand equity that we've earned in those categories and really try to become more of an East meets West lifestyle brand. We've done that by developing more categories in-house. We've done that by adding different partners in some of those categories you mentioned, bedding, towels, footwear, men's apparel, and a number of other categories as well. The bigger revolution for us really has been Notori.com. I joined the business in 2007, and we launched Notori.com as an e-commerce site in 2008. We always saw our high-end department store channel, we knew it wasn't going to grow gangbusters, and if anything, we were planning for it to be flat. We knew Notori.com was going to continue to grow rapidly, so we always felt like we were trying to be ahead of the curve every year and shift more of the business online and just do the best we could in our high-end wholesale channel. Obviously, COVID did two things. Sparked our e-commerce growth through the roof. Wholesale essentially went to zero for a little bit and has continued to come back. But we still see a lot of challenges in that channel going ahead. So I think for us, it's really been about two stories. One is really expanding to become more of a lifestyle brand, and one is really trying to adjust to this new normal. We always thought we were ahead of the curve in terms of planning for e-commerce growth and foreseeing changes in our wholesale channel. COVID accelerated those two changes, and now we're trying to sort of catch up We feel like we've caught up, but it obviously did things to our end user that we couldn't have envisioned in 2019.

In that e-commerce approach, direct-to-consumer, D2C, whichever way you call it, what were some of the challenges you went to in that journey?

Certainly, at first, making sure that when e-commerce was an incredibly small part of our business, our biggest objective was not necessarily growing e-commerce. It was making sure we weren't upsetting our wholesale partners. If we grew Notori.com through the roof wholesale said, "You know what? We don't want you anymore." That would have been a disaster. So we had to grow e-commerce responsibly, but also, you know, we continue to work closely with our wholesale partners to make sure that, you know, we're growing the pie overall instead of just growing, uh, notary.com. Um, for us from a systems perspective, you know, we've always been a design-driven company. If we had a choice to spend money on making something pretty versus having better systems, um, up until recently, we'd always choose to make something pretty. Uh, now that e-commerce is just as important as our wholesale channel, We are really planning to invest heavily in having systems to support these two different end uses. There's the wholesale end use and now the Notary.com end use. That used to be one and the same, but now that those are really two different things, it's really incumbent on us to improve our technology and improve our data so we can make intelligent decisions going forward.

That talks to what we're here about, is the types of data that we have. and the types of data available. So thank you very much. If I move to Jim here, so there are a lot of the schools have innovation centers. FIT has its innovation center. As a professor, how important is it to understand the technology that Ken just mentioned, how it works, and how that is integrated inside the curriculums and the supply chain understanding?

Well, I think it's key. I mean, I've been teaching a graduate supply chain management program for the last 5 years. And for the first 2 years, it was kind of struggling. How do I get students to really understand, A, the different components of supply chain, and B, how technology is causing dramatic changes? Life got so much easier with COVID for me because now we had this live problem that everyone could relate to and that everyone could understand how important it is to adopt different technologies that help you better plan the market, better go out and find materials and work with materials digitally. All the way through production, delivery, returns. As someone who tries to teach how to reinvent your supply chain to students, you got to understand how the technology works, at least conceptually. I can't do anything in 3D. I don't know how to put data into a PLM, but I sure know how important it is and how it's changed supply chains across the world. In my day job, I run a women's fashion footwear business and we are actively utilizing demand planning technologies and 3D. Enterprise-wide systems for tracking orders. And so it's all there is today. I mean, we're not going back to a world where we're handing paper out around the world. It's just going in one direction. And as a teacher, I have to understand really what's out there and try to incorporate it into the learning. And into the course curriculum in different ways.

And I always tell people, it's not your role— is whether or not it's a designer, supply chain president, merchandising— you have other people inside your organizations that are your partners in crime. You have to understand their responsibilities so that you know who to lean on for problems, right? And empathize, because technology If you understand it can enable creativity, not limit creativity, and you may not be the one responsible for it, but it does open those eyes of how to be applying those technologies to it.

That's right. It's so daunting. People often step away from it because it's going to take time to learn something, to learn a new way of doing things, and you're under the gun to get the next season designed or to get the next PO out the door. And so do I really need to take the time and learn this new technology? It's just going to cost me more and more time. But once you see that you can do it and once you do it, you start to understand the benefits. And we find that testing different ideas is key. You got to do some quick tests, learn something quickly, and go from there.

Tinker and innovate.

Yeah, exactly.

Tinker and innovate. Thank you. So I'm going to say Myra, but it's not. It's Mariah West. Mariah. Oh, I practice it wrong. I'm sorry. Wake Hall is also going direct to consumer. So from your approach or how you view merchandising, How is that changing your perception or how we treat the customer when now it's an out-of-the-box experience with the business?

Well, that better not be our box because I don't know what that— that must be from Japan. That bra is not mine. But that's okay. It's a good visual. It is a very different experience, especially in the intimates category. So much of Wacol's success has been driven off of our fit experience. We have 80 women that Waghole still employs to fit people, train people in stores to convert them one customer at a time. We call it the aha moment. They put on our product and all of a sudden they have this very different wearing experience from other than yours, other product in the market. They become extremely loyal customers. And that conversion has always happened since our brand was brought to the US in the fitting room. And so ironically, in late— in 2019, there was a lot of market disruption with a lot of the direct-to-consumer brands out there talking about all this stuff and saying that their position was different and da da da da da da. I was getting very frustrated because we, obviously, we saw that foot traffic in retail stores was slowing and more customers were shopping online. But if our brand was predicated on this fit experience in store, how are we gonna grow if people aren't coming to the stores so that we can convert them? And so I started, you know, tinkering in my head with how are we gonna address this. And fortunately, I have a very intelligent brother-in-law, and he used to ride the train with me, and I would vent about this, and then he would just say, but what are you gonna do? What are What are you gonna do? And we started playing around with the concept of how can we fit people virtually, digitally, online? And so we started playing around with how could we collect— how could we get their size, their measurements, so that they don't have to do it? And also in the intimate space, figuring out your size is kind of a weird, antiquated math equation doesn't always work, and that's why the fitting room is always so important. So we started to look at how we could do this, and I presented to our CEO in December of '19 this concept. But we happen to have just bought a brand in August of that same year, so we had no money. So he was like, I don't— a great idea, Mariah, but come back later. And literally COVID happened in March, and then all of a sudden he's like, So that idea, Mariah, let's do it. And so we built a business plan, we brought it to Japan, we got approval, and we invested in developing the first digital fit tool in the intimate space. So, and we launched it in April of '21. So it would, I think for us, our ability to convert customers online is predicated on fitting them. And so how do we deliver that same customer experience online that we give the customer in the fitting room was the biggest challenge, I think, of my career. And so that is super important. And we've launched that. And now it contributes— 8% of our online sales come from customers who've gone through that journey.

That's incredible.

So it's pretty good. It's still more— it's still better to be fit in person. I like to play the game, who's better, me or the app? And I encourage you to download the app, MyBROFIT, and then you'll hear my voice and you'll laugh because it's my voiceover instructing you to go through the journey. But I think customer service for the online shopper is important. Everybody talks about returns and consumer dissatisfaction when they get the product at home. We've also been working very closely with our e-commerce team, my merchandising team, rewriting all the customer copy. We have lingo in the industry that has been you know, used to help sell product to our retail partners and they understand the lingo. But at the end of the day, the customer doesn't know what a foam, a contour pad is. They wanna know what does that mean? What does it deliver in the fit experience? So really rewriting all that language.

Yeah.

Um, so that, that online experience has that educational and easy to understand language so that they can easily purchase.

Consumer friendly.

Consumer friendly. Consumer friendly. It hasn't been.

Yeah. And when I was at Pantone, I did market intelligence, and it was always returns online were fit, feel, and color. Yep, that's it. So, because you can't touch it, your screen may not be the same, and, you know, the fit, to your point. So I'll be downloading that app. Thank you. Thank you.

You're welcome.

I wish I had a different image now.

Sorry.

That's okay.

I'm very visual, so— Ah, I saw that pink.

Sorry, I Googled. That's my fault.

That's okay.

I fixed it. I moved to the next slide. We work with what we got. So if I can go to you, Ken, for a second. What you're looking at is a slide I always use in terms of what the future is of a supply chain going into a digitized process. Same slide there and there, just in case. What value does technology have in connecting the dots from planning, selling, ordering, and delivering inside your business?

There are a couple. Like I said, we are looking at the world much differently now that our e-commerce business is essentially as important as our wholesale business. It's really incumbent on us, as I mentioned, to really improve our internal systems. Our internal reporting. We could have been, since I joined the company 15 years ago, just patching together an old system using a lot of Excel spreadsheets. It's been fine, but it's not good and it's not good enough. I think another important element of this are your employees and especially recruiting these days. I had been even prior to COVID very focused on employee welfare and all of that because I think it's obviously incredibly important. And one of the things, one of the pieces of feedback I got from my team as we're hiring new people, especially when the job market is tight, and obviously things have cooled off a little bit, you know, new employees, they're attracted by companies with better systems. You know, being like, oh yeah, we're just kind of like a family business. The systems kind of stink, but like we get by. Like, that's not a good selling point to employees who are looking to establish a skillset. And we all know, you know, used to think employees, they're going to be here forever. No, you know, it's just as much about companies attracting employees as it is about employees attracting companies. And I think that's something that's very relevant. So, you know, to us, obviously, there's tremendous value in good data and better data and to be able to make decisions based on data as opposed to just feel, which is how we've done stuff in the past. So we're very focused now, especially as we're sort of catering to two different businesses, to improve, to implement a PLM. And to really improve the data for really a number of different end uses.

Data drives, if it's executed correctly because you can always execute poorly and still have the right tool, is it drives transparency across the different teams. Is that what you guys see as well? Yeah.

I like data for transparency. Sorry, I have a very visceral response. I think data, And central repositories for information, whether it be PLM or even Lectra for pattern software, et cetera. That's super important. I still believe in gut instinct and using some of the data points that you get as points of, I don't know, influence. But I worry about the world where everybody just, totally depends on the data point. And it's like, well, we see this is going like this, so this is what we have to do. And then things aren't statistics until they're done. And I'm speaking from a merchandising design perspective. I always feel that you use it as an indicator, but if you rely on it, then you're going to be developing— our lead time is 18 months, so you're going to be developing something that's stale.

So yeah, and I totally agree with that. You know, you can shape data and look at it however you want to based on your gut looking into it. Totally agreed. One thing I will say, you know, in terms of the value of PLM, explaining to a new employee that if something changes in the point of a product's lifecycle and you have to update data in 7 different Excel spreadsheets in order for it to work, like, that's not good, right? So that is clearly not good. And that is clearly a pain point that, you know, the PLM can solve.

And I think you both touched— PLM is more of a point of truth, right? Is what is the material supposed to be? What is the color supposed to be? I can't remember the name of the book, but he wrote The Tipping Point. He has another book where he talks about somebody walked in and saw a piece of art in a museum and goes, that's a forgery. And it took him 3 years to prove it was a forgery. It was like instant gut because they have that inherent. And that's that balance you have to. And I swim in data. Data can be twisted to present the way I am positioning it, and you're agreeing there. So it is that balance. You have to absolutely have that balance. What is your perspective, Jim?

Well, I agree with, with both Ken and Myra that it's Mariah.

See, we're all—

you know, this is a This is kind of how things go viral, right? [SPEAKING CHINESE] But, you know, at Farrell Robin, we are trying to sell our designs to buyers, to retail buyers, data-driven retailers, old-school retailers. And it's a combination of we need data that supports our recommendations, and at the same time, we need creative ideas that come from people's guts and from their experience in the world. And we have to try to capture that data and access that data in real time and quickly. And so the— the RETView, the— Lectra has scraping data from websites. We use some demand planning software in our design activities. Then through PLMs, we're sharing information so that it's not just design has one set of truths and product development has another and production has another. We have some shared information that everyone can can work off of, and that's really key to our business operations.

Yeah, and one piece of data is just a hypothesis, right? It's not the end-all, be-all. It's just directional.

Yeah, it's what you do. It's your perspective on that piece of information that's valuable. We get paid for our opinion, not for— a piece of data. And so we need good information to provide good, you know, to provide a strong perspective. But at the end of the day, we get paid for what we think.

Absolutely. I got a demo of RETVIEWS this week, so I grabbed— just like I Googled, sorry— I grabbed some screenshots And so what you're seeing here is Adidas. I can't even read it. Adidas, Lulu, Nike, and Under Armour and discounting. So in here, and I disagree that 0% should say no discount applied. So this is when we talk about data is king and data can drive direction. You still have to trust your gut because I can't necessarily make the perfect decision, but it does give me information to start understanding what's happening in the market. So if data is that kind of king and how you look at it from an operational, how do you see that type of data transforming your operations in that direct-to-consumer market? And what are some of the technologies you are looking at? And that's to all, to any or all of you.

We're not direct—

Yeah, I was gonna say—

So technologies we're looking at in terms of our e-commerce?

Yeah, and how does data play a part of that?

Sure. So I think one thing— I guess I can say this— one thing I'm really excited about, we're launching live streaming from our website next month, which is gonna be good. So we have really focused a lot on investing in our website, making sure it works, making sure people can buy stuff, getting them there. And that's all well and good, and, you know, our website is our single most important door, but we really see sort of— there's only so much you can do. You know, I think people are getting kind of bored to some degree, and we really want to turn Notori.com not just to a shopping site, but also to a content— to a content site where people come to experience the brand more. So we're launching a live streaming service starting next month that is going to help with a couple of things. One is it's going to be great in terms of engagement. We've looked at a lot of data in terms of sites with live streaming versus sites without live streaming. And the amount of engagement people get, the amount of time people spend on a site when they see a video pop up and they can look at and interact with a shoppable video is quite impressive. So another thing about us, I mentioned we're most known for sleepwear and bras and underwear. We do a ton of other things that we spend a lot of time on. And the customer just doesn't really know. They still think about us as a sleepwear company. People are in a bra and underwear brand. So these live streams are going to help us educate our consumer a lot more about all of these other categories that we're doing. That's good. And, you know, another important thing for us today, um, there's so much competition for eyeballs out there, and I think more than ever customers want to feel more of a connection, not just to the clothes they're buying, but to the people behind the clothes they're buying. You know, what does this brand stand for? Um, you know, what charities do they support? Who are these people? Um, so, you know, we're launching this live stream with, you know, a live stream with my mother, she's the founder, she's also Natori, and I, just to give more insight about, you know, her story, how she founded the company, me joining, and really her just walking through, you know, our fall collection. So we have looked at a lot of data on what actually keeps people on sites besides just the shopping experience. So we're really excited about this upcoming launch.

I'm excited. That's great. Great, wonderful. Do you have anything else to add, Mom?

I'm not directly involved in the decision-making of, of this, but I know we just transitioned from one email— I don't know what— platform to another, and it's tied also in with our reviews— returns and reviews software. And this is really interesting to us because we're able to then refocus and target when we're launching like-type products. So now it's kind of this whole new world from a merchandising standpoint where when we— every new product we launch, we're also providing to our customer service team like-type products so that when they're targeting new product launch emails, that they're targeting the customers who bought like-type products previously. We're informing the algorithm until we have enough data for the algorithm to inform itself. But that's really interesting. I know from a consumer level, I delete 99.9% of the emails I get from brands because it's just broad strokes. But when they're more personalized, when they're directed more towards the trend or the type of product I'm looking for, I'm more inclined to open them. And so we're working on that, and then we're also working the marketing team is working with the merchandising team on even just the headlines, how we're calling out the products, what purpose it's for. So there's a lot of work going on there. And then just in the returns, it's also very interesting from the design department to see if we're seeing any repetition in comments. So I love/hate because for every product we launch, 25 people who say it's too big, 25 people who say it's too small, and then there's nothing you can do with that because I haven't wrapped a measuring tape around them to know if it was that they bought the wrong size or that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But what we do look for is there consistency in like these off kind of comments. Like if there's something about the fabric and you see the same thing consistently coming back, we obviously want to make sure that we have the best materials, and if there's something that we can address and correct, we always want to do that. Those two things are things that we've just done in the last 6 to 9 months, so I would include that.

I would definitely include that. A lot of people now recognize what data does to you when you're online. That was happening in your mail even prior. I come from a printing background, around in graphic design. And so if you went and test drove a BMW, we knew what you test drove, what colors you liked, what you were— and so you got that brochure a couple of weeks later with all the add-ons. So you went, oh, let me go get that car the way I want it. And so you can lead the customer with those breadcrumbs into that and upsell and cross-sell. So large value in that data that you're referring to. Thank you. So I'm going to stay with you for a second and talk about procurement and merchandising and how you're in— how or— and you touched on it earlier in terms of how do you manage what is not available now? Like, are you bringing things, design teams up? Is it taking—

So now I'm sitting next to the competition. I'm going to tell them what I'm doing.

Or I will not.

No, it's okay. Don't record. No, it is. It's creating a lot of complexity. Intimates as a category already has an extremely long lead time. We're probably somewhat similar. I've worked at 4 or 5 different intimate apparel companies. It's all 18 months pretty much from concept to customer delivery. And we're— it's hard because is both of our brands are wholesalers as well as direct-to-consumer brands. And Wacol is also a manufacturer, which is like a third layer of complexity because we produce around 70% of our product in our own factory. So we have that responsibility as well to get the materials to our own plant and all the logistics involved. So with— and our factory's in the Dominican Republic, and most of our material supply comes from the East, so mostly China. China, Thailand. And getting the materials to our factory have been our greatest challenge. The yarn supply is the beginning of it, but then all the traffic has been another component of real struggle. So we've been forced— because I didn't want to lengthen the lead times anymore, because I thought it would be a competitive disadvantage, I disadvantaged the design department by about 2 almost 2 months. So we've crunched our product development fit schedule by around 2 months because we— someone had to eat the time. And we're having to make material commitments at this point before we go to market, which is very risky. The sales team is not happy about it. My team's not happy about it. The flip side is that we pull and we start showing a market ahead. Which I think isn't very competitive. But some of the— our competitors in the moderate brands, you know, they are doing that. So that's— some brands have decided to pull things forward. So they're showing to the retailers 2 months ahead of the typical market schedule. And we haven't done that because our retailers haven't really been ready to put pencil to paper So that means Wacol is putting our pencil and our pocketbook out there and committing to goods before we go— oh, that's a better picture. That's our store in Short Hills, Short Hills Mall. So that has created other challenges because we're buying a little bit too much of some things and not enough of other things. And it's a guessing game. So it's not sustainable, but that's what we've been doing the last 3 or 4 markets. There's a lot of pressure on what could we do to not continue that. Those are the conversations we're having right now.

Are you guys, all of you, encouraging your teams to work better together? You might have a design and it's specific to some of the stuff you hit earlier, all of you on materials. Do you encourage the teams who are responsible for the supply chain to reach out across the aisle to design together? I know you really wanted this type of material, but there's just no way I can get it because I hear from colleagues of mine, they're scared to have those difficult conversations. Is there— they're like, I have to go find it. Like, well, we—

I can only speak for Wacol. And again, intimates is so particular. You can't like, you can't really swap out a fabric for a like fabric because the performance can be very different. So design will specify specifically which material we need where. So our sourcing, fabric procurement team can't change it on us. But what we've done instead is we're pulling them into the conversation much earlier. So there's no excuse. So instead of coming and saying, well, we can't get this, it's more like, we'll have you talk to them. Here I am at— so when we're at our line close meeting, I'm pulling in our production planning teaming, which we normally wouldn't have those conversations until 3 weeks before market. I'm now including them 1 week after line close to say, these are all of our new products, these are all the new materials. And this, this go-round we had 35% of our new materials mid-spec signed off, which is insane. Um, normally we wouldn't have that sign-off until pretty much market, 3 months later. So We're pulling all that stuff forward.

But you brought those barriers down between the teams by engaging them.

Yes.

So that's good. Are you seeing something similar in all your business, Jim?

Absolutely. I don't know how an organization can operate in silos anymore and still get the consumer what they want, when they want it, how they want it, and technology has been key to help us, and I teach this in the supply chain program, is it's key to getting that cross-organizational communication. It may not be, you know, voices from one to the other, but it allows the data to go across the organization so you can have conversations that are more integrated and not not siloed.

I'm going to stay with you for a second, Jim, and I know I'm running out of time here. Is— how do you see training the next generation?

Well, like Ken said, no one wants to come into an organization that's backwards or that where they're not learning something new or where they're not challenged or where they don't feel like, like Oh, we're kind of on the leading edge of things. No one, you know, young people don't want to join organizations that are backwards. And universities like FIT with the Innovation Center, they're really upping their game in terms of training people on new technologies and getting students very familiar with leading-edge technologies. It's just going to be self-reinforcing. The challenge is the organizations that have been built on old systems have to bite the bullet and start experimenting and move through and get into the 20th century. 21st century.

So I want— I've been told we are over time. So I want to say thank you very much to all of you in the room. Thank you, all of you, for your information. Apologies for the photo there. But I hope you all walk away here with some piece of information of how everybody's adjusting in this new world. Technology and data is an enabler. It's not the end-all or the Bible be-all. But it gives you direction. To make better business decisions, right? To your point, we all— it's a hypothesis, but it helps guide us. But we still need our gut and that reasonable, rational pressure test as well. So thank you very, very much. If anybody wants details on Redfuse, PLM, Color Karma, anybody on LinkedIn, you can just take a screenshot there. So thank you very much, everybody.

Thank you.

Thank you.