Evolution of Supply Chain Strategy in an Unpredictable Market | Komar Brands | PI Apparel

Yelena is a veteran of the fashion industry. I've met her at other PAI Apparel events. She's got 20 years of— over 20 years of experience. She's worked with multiple brands that we're familiar with, probably Hanes and Foot Locker and all of that. Today, she is the Vice President of Sourcing and Production for Kumar Brands. She manages a team of 80 employees, which I think is very impressive. Her vision and management style has helped Kumar Brands retain their standing in the US industry as a leader in sourcing and distribution. When she's not busy traveling and sourcing production, she's an adjunct professor at her alma mater, FIT, here in New York. Michelle is a seasoned fashion industry professional with over 15 years of global experience. She was raised in Brazil and Korea, which has given her a wonderful, incredible, diverse cultural background, and it's shaped her unique perspective on the fashion industry. She currently serves as Vice President of Product Development and Supply Chain at Universal Standard, and they are a brand celebrated for its outstanding size inclusivity, going from a 00 to a size 40 is what I understand. So Please join me in welcoming Yelena and Michelle for our conversation. Okay, so we have the poll that was answered. I don't know if you had a chance to take a look. So here, I'm going to— macroeconomics got 37%, transportation and logistics 32%, sustainability 21%, and consumer trends 11%. So it looks like macroeconomics and transportation and logistics are the most unpredictable in your supply chain. So food for thought as you answer the questions. Okay, I'm going to start— there's a couple different subjects that we've got here. Key trends in the textile and apparel industry for Yelena. What are the key trends or developments that are shaping the future of the textile and apparel industry globally, but as well also in the US?

So I mean, I think that the first one really is sustainability and transparency. I think that that's really kind of what we've been talking about and how to make your supply chain more transparent. You know, we'll kind of get in, dig into that a little bit more. Also customization and personalization. I think that this is a trend that we forgot about. You know, pre-COVID, there was all this talk about customization, personalization. Everybody wanted something unique. I think that's creeping back in. I think that that's really a major trend and especially as we move towards technology, you know, how to really make technology work from a personalization standpoint in a mass way. Moving on, retailers increasing their voice on where we're doing production. I'll kind of really dig into that. I think for me that's one of the biggest differences and really a new trend where retailers are saying, you know, what's your plan to get out of China? Along with regulatory changes and the resilience of your supply chain.

I'm just curious, when you're saying that retailers are looking at, not dictating, but suggesting a little bit more about where you're sourcing, can you just give us a little bit on it?

We can jump right into that because that's my next question.

Is it your next? Because I'm so curious about that. I don't know if the rest of you but I'm like, oh gosh, can retailers really dictate where we make our products?

They can. I mean, especially when you're in a private label business. And, you know, so our company is very unique. We do our own brands that Comar owns. We also do a lot of licensed brands, and we also do a lot of private label. So the retailers absolutely are starting, and this is very new, that's why, you know, the next question is, you know, what do you see as the most pressing issues facing the industry today? I mean, to me, that is the most pressing issue in the industry. I have just attended recent market weeks, and during those market appointments, we had retailers say to us, what is your go-forward plan of leaving China? You know, the problem the retailers don't understand is that leaving China only means leaving sewing lines. You know, when they say leave China, you know, they don't understand that the supply chain is not following us yet. We don't have fabrics, we don't have trims, we don't have our tier 1, our tier 2, and our tier 3 suppliers moving to these other countries that the retailers are asking me for a plan.

And where are they asking you to go?

Um, they're not really dictating that at this point. They're saying when are you leaving China, that's really the big question, versus Where are you going? You know, they're kind of leaving at least something up to us, right? But, you know, I keep saying, and I just came back from overseas, and my main question to the factories were, when are suppliers coming? You know, it's great to have factories in Vietnam, it's great to have factories in Sri Lanka, but I need fabrics there. I need the trims.

Raw materials, right?

I need fabric suppliers.

You know, well, I find that's the challenge in the US too, right? Because the cost of labor here is higher, but it's harder to get. And with Bjorn, we were talking about it's harder to get some of those raw materials here in the US. Okay, so on to the industry challenges. We already talked about it just a little bit. We jumped ahead, but what do you see as the most pressing issues facing the industry today and in the future? And are they based on different selling channels, you know, online versus brick-and-mortar versus, you know, owning your own stores, things like that? That.

I think sustainability challenges definitely triumph and dictate how brands operate right now. Marring also cost efficiency and bottom line with the sustainability challenges has been very difficult lately because with sustainability comes higher cost and lots of auditing, lots of testing that add like incrementally on every step of production and logistics. A cent here, a cent there to your bottom line. And with those claims married with geopolitical uncertainties have created a very challenging landscape in supply chain in general for us. I come from a very small brand. We do everything from product development to production all the way down to direct-to-consumer business. And we hear first and foremost from our customers, just like you hear from your retailers. Of when are you leaving China, we hear that same question from our customers on— through our online chats, through calls, through emails. Where are you getting it? What is the testing? So even customers nowadays are very well informed with social media and TikTok and all these videos explaining what you should be looking out for. So we're facing a lot of pressure to figure out and make the supply chain a lot more transparent. As an e-commerce brand, I think those challenges married with customer logistics and trying to be sustainable is a little bit different from the retailer end. But also, it's just trying to navigate all of that together and educating the customer that just by leaving China isn't the solution.

[SPEAKING CHINESE] So we have another poll that we were gonna be looking at about company sustainability strategies. If we wanted to take a look at that and wait for some answers here. I'm curious about this because what I have found is, you know, people have been talking about sustainability for so many years, and when is everybody gonna be on board, and You know, isn't that just gonna become the norm? I feel like it. I feel like that's where we should be, because it's been such an issue for so long now. But I'm seeing that the answers, hmm, may not match what my point of view is here. Okay, we'll wait a couple more minutes. I think the person who said very better come up here and help us out. I think that's amazing, right? And somewhat, you know, I feel good about that too. Okay. So, we're at somewhat is 68%, the clear winner of the day. Haven't started working on it. I suggest you get together with the people who say it's very fleshed out. Exchange some ideas. We're all here to collaborate, right? That's part of the day and part of tomorrow. Okay, based on those responses, I look forward to asking you some questions. So, how, Jelena, you know, how are sustainability practices integrated currently into your supply chain? And, you know, we just were talking a little bit about raw materials, but how are you all facing this with raw materials to production and then moving a little bit more forward into distribution.

So I'm not surprised over the answer about somewhat. I think that this is a conversation that has been going on for way too long without actually having results or doing anything. I think that it is now time, and it is now time the companies start to really prioritize sustainability and make it actionable. So same thing with Comar. We have always discussed sustainability from a standpoint of having some fabrics in certain brands, you know, kids division having organic cotton, or our Ralph Lauren division, because it was mandated by Ralph Lauren to have sustainable fabrics. But this is the first time that we're really taking a deep dive into a total company sustainable action plan. And we have hired a new director of sustainability to really start holding Comer and our company accountable, to really be able to share our results of our sustainability plans, come up with a sustainability action plan, and something that we can actually do, an action plan that we can put forward not only with our own brands and with our customers. You know, what happens right now is I think sustainability comes down from what the retailers want you to do, what the brands want you to do. So depending on who you work at, your sustainability plan is in accordance to that retailer. Now our company is starting to build our own sustainability action plan. Okay, not waiting for the retailer to tell us really what is our action plan.

Sometimes better to be a leader, you know, rather than waiting for things to happen.

Yeah, and so our, you know, one of the biggest things that we have now done is we are having all factories upload their BOMs, full Tier 2, Tier 3 BOMs, with full information, and they do not get paid unless that BOM is updated— uploaded. That is very different. We have always asked for a BOM. We never— A, we never checked the information that was on there, and it was never tied to a factory getting paid. So now we are starting to get transparency into our supply chain, really knowing and digging deep into that suppliers who Who is our factory making elastics? Who's making our pads? Who's dyeing our goods? You know, all things that we've always relied on factories to know that information, but we never asked for it. So to me, that is step one in an actionable sustainability plan. Okay?

That's great. You know, speaking of bill of materials, you know, in the footwear industry, the Leather Working Group is very important, and they have certifications, right? Bronze, silver, gold. And what I found is that people hadn't ever heard of the Leather Working Group, and there are certain environmental standards. And now it's becoming commonplace, and people are asking as part of the bill of materials and sourcing to make sure you source from tanneries making leathers that are part of the Leather Working Group. So it's coming more and more, but it's just, I think, bit by bit, slowly, right?

Yeah, absolutely. Also, I recently came back from overseas. I cannot tell you how many factories, when I sat down with them were telling me their action plans for sustainability, telling me how they recycle water, telling me that they put in solar panels. Very different conversations than 5, you know, even, you know, pre-COVID traveling overseas. I never had a factory sit down with me and be proactive to tell me what their action plan was. You know, we are seeing that now, you know, because the factories understand how important sustainability is. In the US market, and they're starting to take action for it.

That's fantastic. Michelle, do you think that sustainability has changed and pivoted how companies are selecting and viewing their supply chain in the textile and apparel industry? It really piggybacks on what Yelena was talking about.

Absolutely. I think it has most definitely become a big part of vendor selection. And reevaluation of the supply chain as a whole. Just as you say— you said, from raw material selection, proven, like, sustainable fibers such as lensing. We try to use lensing as much as possible, as it shows the transparency of where that raw material came from. We try to lean towards organic and recycled materials with proven certifications as well. And just as vendor selection, we work work with vendors. A big portion of our vendors are from Peru, and they all have BCI and WRAP certifications, which are very important. We visit— make factory visits regularly. And even on freight end, I know my colleague Stephanie that's sitting in the audience right now works very hard to ensure transparency behind carbon emissions, opting opting for direct and express vessels over deferred air that may cause more carbon emissions, down to inland trucking. Instead of going trucking, opting for railway when they're not having a strike and such.

That's interesting because one of the things that I was going to say is that Comar's sustainability plan is having truckers and not rail.

Really?

Yes. Because we have found that we can mandate when the trucks go. We use them in off hours in order to use less energy. So it's interesting how a sustainable—

Brands have different plans.

Yeah. To achieve the same thing. Yet to achieve the same thing.

Yeah, we try to work with also freight forwarders that have the technology to show how much carbon emission is related to each route. And then we opt for an optimized route that obviously doesn't hinder margins and profits.

Yeah, and just to add to the distribution, yeah, just to add to the distribution since we're talking about that, you know, we have purchased and had our factories purchase a lot of tools that reduce the air in your carton, that, you know, optimize how many cartons you can put into a container. You know, obviously we did that for a cost savings reason, but hello, now we see what the sustainability aspect of that was. We're using so many less cars, we're putting so much more shipping, we're consolidating into a lot less containers, and we're holding our factories responsible for not shipping air. We have someone on Comer's staff that helps our factories pack the most efficient way possible. This is all new this year. Never done this before. Never even thought about how much air we're shipping. So here we are saving money and doing something really great for the planet.

Right.

Well, I find that, yeah, they go hand in hand.

Right.

Sometimes.

Sometimes. So technology integration is the next thing we're going to talk about here. How has technology, you know, blockchain and other things, impacted supply chain efficiency and transparency in the apparel industry? Michelle?

I think for us, AI has been the hot topic. As an e-commerce company, we deploy lots and lots of different plugins and softwares. There isn't a facet of the business that technology doesn't touch on. And for us, AI has been the hot topic for forecasting reasons, planning reasons to make sure that we are very lean on inventory. It's less to do on the supply chain end, but more so on making sure the business planning is sound to ensure that supply chain also runs in the most efficient manner possible. So I think technology in that sense, we have really leveraged for cash flow, as well as visualizing margins and profitability in a way that is, you know, workable for a small business like ours.

So, Yelena, are there any emerging technologies that you believe will revolutionize the industry supply chain in the near future? I mean, we've got a bunch down—

Right, we have a lot downstairs.

Is it downstairs, upstairs?

Oh, upstairs.

Third floor. So yeah, there's a lot up there that we can take advantage of in these couple of days. But what do you think is revolutionizing?

So I actually— for me, it's very different. For me, what I found revolutionizing is sizing and all these new technologies that, you know, we work in intimate apparel. It's a very, very intimate type of fit process. In order for you to know your size. You have to go to a store, you have to have someone touch you, and you know, it's a very personal experience. I've been engaging with a company called Fitmatch, which I am so unbelievably impressed with. And with, in less than a minute, there's an app that you just prop up, you're wearing clothing, And you do a little turn and told you exactly your size. But taking it a step further, didn't just tell me what my size was, told me what style would fit me best for my breast shape. So taking it a step further, it's not just telling your size, which was, by the way, very accurate in less than a minute. Okay, the app exists on your phone. Phone, it's a widget that you can intertwine, you know, integrate with your website or in store I've seen it. So Macy's is doing it, Savage Fenty. So we have not engaged yet, but it's something that I have definitely been presenting to my company as the next big technology, especially within my world of intimate apparel.

I mean, we have definitely— sorry.

Yeah, no, go ahead.

We've definitely been using a lot of— because we're an e-commerce company and we don't have physical presence, apps like Fit Finder. We have different plugins that aggregate data, your, your customer data from other websites and tells you what you would be in our sizing because otherwise it soars returns and returns is something you want to minimize, especially for sustainability's sake. So with all of these gadgets, it's really revolutionizing, I feel like, the retail industry.

Now, there's a lot of it in footwear too. Volumental and some of the others are, you know, have the foot scanning technologies, and they take sizing from last shapes from multiple different brands and types of shoes, and it's incredible what they're able to do now. Some of it is in store, some of it is from an app. And it's been really impressive for sure.

And I just, I feel that real technology that has existed but we have not yet really taken it to where it should be is 3D fit.

You know, for sure.

I mean, 3D fit really is the technology, you know, Browzwear and CLO. We have this technology available and we're not taking it to where it should be from a sustainability aspect to reduce our samples to really reduce lead times, reduce cost. I mean, that is what these programs— and we need retailers and manufacturers and really factories as well to really get on board on 3D fit.

Right.

You know, I have found from, you know, right, teaching shoe design that half my students are industrial design majors, half of them are fashion majors, and The ID students come in and they're whizzes at 3D design, 3D printing, everything. And then the fashion students come in and they know how to use Adobe Illustrator and that's it. And I have juniors and seniors, and these seniors from the fashion department need to get on board. And we've been encouraging it more and more. I think the campus more recently got CLO, but it is like, And that's something that I think can hinder these designers that are coming out of school. So I'm constantly talking to them about it. And the beauty of my course is that I have these ID and fashion students that are working together from day one. But mine is one of the only classes that does that. So we're talking about it more and more on campus. But it's super interesting to see the evolution And my hope is that the fashion students are, you know, are coming forward.

Yeah, and that's what I hope. I hope the fashion students really come into the companies and say, hey, I work on browse wear, I work on clothes, this is what I do, this is how I work, you know, to really start pushing the envelope. I think we still have, you know, these technical designers that—

Long way to go.

It's a long way to go. I mean, we're doing probably 7, 8 different fit processes on a pair of thongs. Like, I'm sorry, that can definitely be reduced.

Like, for sure, for sure.

I think for us, as we're a womenswear company approaching all different categories, it does help. Like, the 3D process has really improved our adoption rate. So when we see protos and 3D imagery, um, at first it's really easy to just nix designs at point as opposed to getting the sample yardage and having them all produced and then shipped here at high cost, fitting, etc. It's just really inefficient.

Oh, for sure. I love that kind of conversation about the technology aspect. I find it so interesting. Globalization is next. Michelle, what do geopolitical events and trade tensions impact in the global apparel supply chain, and how do we navigate those challenges?

Where do I even start? It has been an interesting past 4 years, I think, starting from COVID to post-COVID, inflation, the macroeconomics of it all. I think we have just become— at least our team has just become very, very highly vigilant and about everything that's happening around the world because it could impact us at any moment. The protests here, the railway strikes over there, the UPS driver union negotiations, everything has a direct impact. So we've become very, very, very highly vigilant and constant monitoring as well as just agile response to anything that could impact you. So because we're a direct-to-consumer company that owns our own distribution channel, it's very easy for us to pivot. Hey, that container stuck because of XYZ reasons. You know what? We'll launch that later. We'll launch this other thing that's so different than traditional wholesale.

From when I first got into the industry, I just get yelled at. Yeah.

So, so So what we've learned is that you have to work very, very closely cross-functionally between merchandising, planning, e-commerce, marketing. Everything needs to come together to pivot at the last possible minute because as a direct-to-consumer company with, you know, a finite cash flow, you are planning this business down to the minute. So we're sitting here with an app, we're all on Shopify, we're looking at like the sales and hey, like we got to pivot. Let's do a sale here. Let's add an ad here. Like, it is a very, very fast-paced business. Right.

So, Yelena, with the rise of nearshoring and reshoring trends, which we were talking about a little bit earlier, I think, with Bjorn, how are companies reevaluating their supply chain strategies?

This is such a hard question because I can't even explain to you the years and the the energy that I've been spending to try to nearshore some of my products. And it always comes down to price inhibitive, just can't afford it, or the timeline is too long. And the factories are not coming to us with any action plans. You know, to me, I need the factories to come to me and say, you know what, We're willing to do a test. We're willing to do 500 pieces if you write an order. You know, but they're not coming to us with any plan that allows me to go to my C-suite to say, we should try this. This is what we should be in, and this is how we should try it. Every time I engage with a factory, it ends up being they want the same units as my Asia factory. And now the price is more expensive. And my designer has to change all the fabrics because, you know, there's not the same variety of fabrics overseas. So the conversation just keeps happening, and it sort of feels like, you know, the hamster wheel that you don't get off on, you know? So it— you know, I know that it's out there and people are definitely discussing it as we are. We just, you know, in full honesty, have not had the success success that I would have hoped for.

Okay.

We actually produce about half of our products down in Peru.

Oh, wow.

Which is technically near. That is near. Near enough.

I mean, it's Western Hemisphere. I would love that.

It's Western Hemisphere. We're on the same time zone. It works great in that sense. I don't have to be sending emails Sunday night or anything, so that works out great. But what we've noticed is that But at least like down in Peru, because of all the duty rate efficiencies we get, it actually nets out about the same for certain types of products.

Wow, that's great.

Especially in like the cut and sew market. And we've been able to do also pivots in that sense because we're direct to consumer. We'll ask them, hey, like what deadstock fabric you have? And we'll use a lot of those deadstock fabrics to produce simple silhouettes and market it as like, hey, we're being sustainable technically. We're taking someone else's trash and producing a beautiful product.

I love that.

And it's proven to be very successful and very quick for us.

That's great. So consumer trends. How are changing consumer preferences affecting the demand and supply dynamics?

Consumer preferences are changing very, very fast. I think sustainability concerns paired with inflation and rising costs and desire for the unique products, as you mentioned, but they're still stringent on cash. They want— they're very price sensitive. The current customer is very, very price sensitive. I just read a bunch of articles about how people are holding out for last-minute deals even though there has been deals all month long. And it's been very, very challenging. And at least for us, we're just trying to be very lean on inventory, high sell-throughs, high profitability, sell everything as quick as possible and discount as least as possible and getting almost scientific in our own buys. So we get nitty-gritty with even our size breakdowns.

And you carry so many sizes, right?

We carry 22 sizes. And it's huge. We get down to the SKU, not even on a category level. We do not apply a straight formula across the board. We analyze everything. That's also where AI comes in because I'm one person. And we analyze all the sizes down to with each unique SKU to make sure we will achieve the highest sell-through as quick as possible. Because—

A lot of analytics, everybody.

—is just detrimental.

Right, for sure. So the last— we have one last question here for both of you. But if you have anything for the Q&A, we're leaving about 5 or so minutes for that. If you've got anything, go ahead and send it in. And I know that Francesca will be putting it up on the screen. So resilience and risk management to both of you in light of recent disruptions, COVID and more, of course, right? The industry is always changing. So it's not just COVID, I think. How has your supply chain evolved? And, you know, what are you all doing to mitigate the risks?

So I'll kind of jump in first. I think the first is really, I mean, I have a few points, but number one being, you know, I used to really believe in being one factory, one style, and deep into that factory. We've now taken that and said, you know what, we have to have our best-selling styles developed at two different factories, two different countries, various fabrics, so that we are able to pivot if needed. I think that's very different from the strategy before where I would just have one style, put everything in one place. Very different than my strategy today. And I think that, you know, talking about technology and sustainability and all these things we're talking about, 3D Fit helps in this. You know, you can get your fits approved with various different factories if you're doing it via 3D. I also think, you know, my new motto is ask. I don't care. Now I just ask a factory. I know what your MOQs are, I know what your MCQs are. I don't really care what your MOQs are and your MCQs are. I'm going to ask the questions where before I didn't. You know, before I would tell my salespeople, you're not meeting the minimum. Well, you know what, business is tough and maybe we can't meet the minimum, but we still need product or we want to test product. So now my motto is I ask every factory, I push them to reduce their minimums. We can't carry that kind of inventory.

MSQ is very, very flexible. Right.

Well, and just, they don't, you know, the stores don't want to carry that kind of inventory anymore. We're at a place where inventory concerns are going to be the trend for years to come. So pushing your factory, and like you said, I have that same note here, using debt deadstock, you know, engaging with companies like Queen of Raw to use deadstock and, you know, building product that way. I mean, that was a lot of the conversations overseas, doing 200 units, send me whatever fabric you have.

So a couple things. One is a friend of mine told me that his most important class in business school was the class on negotiation because 50% of the negotiation is the ask. You don't ask, you won't get it. You go to a hotel, you want an upgrade, you ask, right? So I've done it and it works, which is crazy. And the other thing is, you know, I find that with using deadstock, you can create a bit of a frenzy because it becomes a limited edition product, right? So to have all these fun limited edition items is fantastic. You're doing, you know, multiple things with that.

Yeah, I think I think for us it's definitely that. And as a small business, like MCQs mean nothing to me. I am sorry. I will ask for 50 units, 25 units, you name it, I will ask. And being a size-inclusive brand when there was no size-inclusive brand, my motto is think outside of the box. There is no box. So we have asked crazy things from our vendors. They'll come back to me like, "Sorry, the machine just doesn't go wide enough." Well, I don't care. Figure it out. Create a larger machine, or let's put a center back seam, but then we're going to put a center back seam on everything because everything needs to be the same, and that's very important for us. And graded. And graded, obviously. But I think the most important for us is like business is changing so rapidly, you need to pivot. Fashion industry needs to pivot, needs to change. There's lots of e-commerce brands, there are lots of size-inclusive brands, there are genderless brands. You need to learn to get with the program.

Okay, so that's it for our questions. Let's see here. So how do you grow fabric capabilities in emerging markets in order to try to achieve a truly diverse supply chain? How do you— How do you grow fabric capabilities in emerging markets in order to try to achieve a truly diverse supply chain?

So we tend to work with a lot of vendors that are essentially full service. So they come to us with essentially a portfolio of fabrications, and we will try to select fabrications that we obviously tested. We also like to hop onto other brands' fabrications because that always helps with the minimums. And I think by growing, you also have to— sorry, I'm rambling a little bit here— but you also have to work very closely with your design team. You have to get their buy-in in a fabrication group in order to diversify a fabrication. There's just no way around it. If you're not working close enough and they're just selecting onesies here and there, I think it's very important that you have that cross-functional teamwork in order to work with the right vendors that's going to come to you with the portfolio that you need and then go into a diversifying supply chain.

It's for Elena at— Kumar, what are the top 3 countries that you're working with right now? And do you think your top 3 are going to be changing over the next year?

That's good. Our top 3 right now, I would say, are China, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka. Kumar has factories in Sri Lanka, so I do see that changing because we will be growing in Sri Lanka. And I also see Vietnam growing. I mean, I think I think like everyone else, Vietnam has really emerged as, you know, the next— I don't want to say China, but I will. You know, Vietnam is really kind of emerging, especially in the intimate apparel industry. My trip just now was 3 days in Hong Kong and a week in Vietnam.

Right, I think that's part of the transition for sure. Yeah. Can you please talk about AI and the software you use for forecasting and demand planning?

I hope I get commissioned for this. We currently use a software called Singuli. They have been very helpful in essentially reading on a SKU level our sales trends, even with all the different variables we put in with different promotions and such, and spitting out a essentially like what I need to buy tomorrow and when I need to buy everything. So it's been really great.

And I imagine it's very different than the Excel that we use.

There's definitely, you know, some of them I think can offer some amazing services.

I'm sure the presentations and demos, they're incredible. We're still using Excel.

You are? Oh, God. Well, you need to be talking to the people upstairs.

You still have to use Excel. There's still Excel involved. I don't think you can ever— Okay, because we're still using Excel. Sheets on Excel is life at this point.

All right, we've got just these last two, and we're done. I think, is it lunchtime next? Lunchtime is next. And then I'll be back in this room with Tom Brook on a legal perspective to the industry, intellectual property and such, which is kind of new. And I know that there'll be another session across the way. I think that starts— those start at 2:15, is that right? 2:15. I'm looking at Francesca here to confirm. Okay, so how are you all defining Tier 2 and Tier 3 suppliers?

So Tier 2 is your fabric suppliers, fabric and trim. And Tier 3 really dives into dyeing, embroidery, you know, post-fabric.

If you negotiate lower— is that MOQ? Yeah, MOQ. Do you ask or consider where the extra fabric goes from a sustainability point of view?

So this is a great question, especially in intimate apparel. You know, we can say I ask for a lower MOQ, MCQ, and I do, but at the end of the day, A bra has 32 components, and every component is used very minimally. So a lot of times, you know, we do have a lot of fabric left over. And what I do now is I really try to find out if I really need lower MOQs, MCQs. Can we do a sample run in fabric? You know, can I just do a sample run? And you know what? They start telling me, "Your color matching can only be 80% or your colorfastness can be this." I say, "Okay, go, no problem." You know what, and that's where I go and have to tell my designers, "You know what, you might not get that perfect blue shade you want, but you know what, I'm not gonna have 3,000 yards of fabric sitting here that we have to waste." Well, and the end consumer doesn't know the exact color the designer said. Selected anyway, right? So that has been a really good strategy for me— for us is to ask about sample yardage and seeing if we can do smaller runs on that, and then we don't have the wastage of the fabric.

We've gotten smart with the construction, especially in like intimate apparel, less so in apparel. We have MCQ issues on trim, but MCQ issues on underwear is crazy. So I'll ask the designers to Let's change the design to an encased elastic. That way we don't have to dye the elastic, you know? Little, little things here and there. And sometimes they'll say yes, sometimes they'll say no. And hey, if they say no, then we'll only run black.

There we go. Small steps, right? Small steps towards everything we want to accomplish, I think. So thanks so much.