Fashion 2025: The Year Physical Clothing Becomes Obsolete | The Fabricant | PI Apparel

Good morning, everybody. I'm very nervous to be here. I do give a lot of presentations, but this is a very different one because it's for the fashion industry. And I had to think of a topic that's very recent for us, very topical for us. And I asked Miki, who is our communications person, of like, how can I make a title that shakes people up a little bit, makes it question? It's a little bit of a twist for what most of us here are doing. First of all, who's not from fashion here? Who doesn't work from fashion? Who doesn't work in fashion? One person? Two? Two people. Okay, second question. Who here uses digital fashion? Okay, wow, that surprises me. Who here has worn digital fashion? Okay, still quite a lot. Yesterday we had an event and I made everybody wear digital fashion. And in that event, it went very well. I don't want to do that here today because I think you're all going to think it sucks. Because AR is not true fashion yet. But I'm going to be talking about here what we're doing, what's happening in the digital-only fashion industry that will make digital fashion much larger than the physical fashion industry itself. So the title that we came up with is Fashion 2025: The Year Physical Clothing Becomes Obsolete. I'm not going to dive into what that means right now. I'll revisit it at the end. So a little bit for today, a little bit of intro on The Fabricant, who I am, what we do. Talk a little bit about how the physical fashion industry is using digital right now. I'm sure you all know, but I just want to recap it and show you all the things that we've done over the years with fashion brands. And then talk about the digital-only fashion industry. Which really has taken off since the pandemic. And there's just a lot of very interesting stuff happening. And most of it is driven by the Web3 space. And then I'll talk about the wardrobe for the metaverse, which is the Fabricant Studio, and how we're enabling everybody to become a digital-only fashion designer. So a little bit about us. I spoke at Pi Apparel, or Pi Apparel, Pi Apparel, I think it's right, Pi Apparel, for the first time in 2018. It was a very small panel talk. Nobody really knew about the Fabricant. Nobody knew about digital-only fashion. But we had a big dream back then. And that dream has become a vision. And that vision has become execution. So together with my leadership team, Adriana comes from a corporate background, Amber, who was my creative director and co-founder back in 2018 already. And now we're recently joined by a star cast, uh, CTO Marco, who has a wealth of experience in Apple, uh, working with AI and visual effects. Sophie, who's our managing director, uh, who's done fantastic things here in Amsterdam, and just recently joined by Owen, who's a crypto native CFO. And this has been one of the most important hires for The Fabricant. It's somebody who has a traditional finance background, worked in crypto for over 5 years, has done multiple different token launches with companies like Human Protocol and Boson Protocol. Might not say much to you guys, but in the Web3 world, those are very big things. And he also loves fashion. Traditional finance, crypto-native, and fashionable. That to me is just the best combination. And we're about 60 people these days. That's really happened over the pandemic. Before the pandemic, we were 5, and through the pandemic, we've grown a lot, and we are growing a lot, and we have a very aggressive roadmap of growth. And also advisory board is a lot about the Web3 space, the crypto space, simply because blockchain as a technology is an enabler for the future of digital-only fashion. So a little bit on the milestones. 2018, we did digital-only fashion show. In 2019, we sold the world's first digital-only garment on the blockchain, which started rolling this— a lot of these headlines. Why would anybody buy clothing that does not exist for $9,500? That was the narrative back then. The Emperor's New Clothing, a lot of people used. But since the pandemic, people started saying like, OK, well, why not? Because it's focused on other aspects. It's not functional. I don't cover my body. I don't keep myself warm. It's really focused on the virtual identity and how we create our lives in the metaverse or virtual identities of virtual lives. Then in 2020, we got to work very closely together with Virtual Lablanc because they couldn't do physical samples. All the factories were closed in China and they needed to sell in Paris all their clothing. So we needed to digitize all the items. There was about 600 items that needed to be digitized. It was not only us who worked on that. I think there's a few people in this room as well who worked on that project, a very big project. But it kind of showed that the industry is moving very fast to digital means. And we're going to talk about DPC. We're going to talk about B2B sales. We're going to talk about marketing and all that stuff. But last year, we did the world's first digital-only dress for the Vogue magazine. And that to me again was kind of one of those defining moments that just shows that digital fashion is moving forward, is becoming more mainstream adopted, people are starting to warm up for it. In 2016, we were already talking about, "Oh, one day Vogue will be doing digital-only clothing." Still a dream back then, but that dream has become, you know, what it is today. And this year we raised a Series A funding round of $14 million, which I'm super proud of. It really takes us only about 18 months forward. It's a lot of money, but we also have a very, very high burn rate at the moment that we need to manage because blockchain developers are expensive. Very, very expensive people because they're high in demand and they're doing amazing stuff. But there's a lot of amazing stuff coming up this year as well that I will be really going into during this presentation. I just want to run you through the vision. Some of you probably seen this many times. We waste nothing but data and exploit nothing but our imagination, meaning data is the pollution of the future. When we talk about the sustainability, everybody always comes to us like, "Oh, but blockchain is so environmentally unfriendly." "Oh, but your servers are so environmentally unfriendly." "All the computers, all the lighting in the studio, so environmentally unfriendly." I still say that we're way more sustainable than the traditional fashion industry itself. And I'm pretty sure most of us know the challenges that, that are there. So let's dig deep. Let's look at what we've done. And I can only speak from my perspective because I'm not an expert in the physical fashion industry. I only know what we've done. So you're welcome to challenge me, you know, if I'm saying something stupid about the physical fashion industry. But I'm really going to talk from my perspective and what we've done and how that's really enabled the fashion industry to move more towards digital. DPC, digital product creation. Who here did not do DPC 2 years ago but is doing it now? Few, few. Who does DPC to begin with, to start? Okay. Wow. That was very different a few years ago at Pi Apparel. So good job on everybody who's made that move. That's the starting point of everything that's to come. If you have, if you're capable of making digital assets, you can be making NFTs, you can be making videos, you can be making basically everything simply because you have those assets in place. So the next step from those TPC, you know, what some of you are already doing is the B2B sales. Those same renders that you create for your DPC, you can be using for your sales. I mean, Erin, you know, we worked together while she was at Under Armour. I think you worked on this project, did you? Yeah. So this is a lot of the stuff that we created together with Under Armour for their B2B sales because they couldn't go on the road anymore during the pandemic. So a lot of the sales were happening through iPads and virtual presentations. This is what we did for Napapiri. Rainier, do you mind playing the video? It was for their B2B sales 2019. We made an opening video. It was about 2 minutes. There was a whole narrative. There was music. There was a curtain reveal moment. And there was people sitting in a cinema. It's like, wow, this is the new collection of I don't know, SS21, I think it was. But again, using the same samples that we did for TPC, we were able to just put it into a visual effects pipeline and start creating these renders that became their B2B sales material. So instead of making a video with models and physical clothing, we did everything digitally. Can you go to the next slide? So then moving on to the marketing side of things, consumer-facing. The DPC and the B2B slides that I just showed you was from this project. So we went through that whole value chain, took those same assets, and just added a layer of storytelling. And when we talk about storytelling, it's always the same. It's a body or an avatar. It's an environment. It's a situation. It's the time that you put it into, and it's the objects that you put into it. You put some lighting on it, you render it out, and you have some pretty visuals. Very simply put, of course. Yeah, very simply put. But it's not rocket science. Visual effects has been doing it for many, many years. Gaming companies have been doing it for many years. And I think the fashion industry is moving towards that direction as well. Pixel Pool is very good at it. I see you, Gary. You guys are very, very good. INDG is very good. I think Buzz— did I see Buzz here? There you go. Hey, Buzz. Uh, would you mind playing the video? So we made a video for it as well. Um, so for the Puma video itself, we always say we didn't fly anybody out to the Atacama Desert in Chile. You know, there were no models involved. There was no physical fashion involved. This whole video happened with 5 people behind the computers in Amsterdam. So again, that's the way we're saying that we're way more sustainable than the physical fashion industry. And secondly, we're also much more scalable because we can reuse those assets. So this video— one sec. No, not yet. Sorry. This video we did as our final client service project last year, which was for H&M. It was the final because we never wanted to work with fashion brands in the way that has been the services. We wanted to be a fully-fledged digital-only fashion house. And with our Series A fundraise, we were able to move 100% of our resources to that vision. But this video for H&M was a big topic. I know there's some people from H&M. I'm sorry to say this, but we always thought of H&M as one of the biggest evildoers when it comes down to the fast fashion industry itself. And we swore that we will never work with them because of that reason. But they came to us and they said, We're doing a digital-only fashion collection. I was like, H&M is doing digital-only fashion? That blew my mind. This was 2021, so like 3 years later than we started. But there is that other aspect that I know H&M wants to move that way. I know H&M wants to, you know, not be this evildoer that they, you know, ended up getting this PR title for. And what's the best way to do that is to help and consult them and contribute to the change that they're trying to do. Because it's also great people behind the scenes just trying to do their best. And, you know, like, it's a big company and it needs a lot of change. But I'm very proud of this video because it turned out very nicely and the collection is super nice too. So could you play it right here? Thank you. [FOREIGN] Can you go to the next slide, please? Okay, so I'll just talk, talk about the H&M, H&M just a little bit more. I'm not exactly sure what's happening with it right now, but the most important thing with these digital-only fashion projects for every brand is not to think of them as marketing projects, but something of long-lasting. So now that we've done this thing together, now the important thing to ask is like, what are the next steps? How are we going to enable this digital-only fashion collection to live on and go from this like seasonal thinking? Okay, we drop this and then it's on to the next one. We drop this, it's on to the next one. The true power of digital, the true power of this new business model that's being created is the fact that you can keep reusing it, that you can do multiple different new things with it. You can put it into a new creative while keeping the same assets. You can repurpose these assets and do multiple different things with them. And just to finish off the digital-only value chain for the physical fashion industry, something that I haven't really seen many brands explore yet is the immersive side of things. So, I know Pixel Pool and IMDG are working a lot on VR stuff, working in Unreal Engine and Unity for brands. But this is where it kind of ends, where you can really just start creating the experiences. And I always say that we need to create a better digital experience for fashion for people to want to move to digital, because right now that experience is, you know, it's still very gimmicky. You know, it's games, it's AR filters. People are not going to very quickly change their habits of, you know, going to the high street to buy clothing because of these experiences. So the way that we're going to make digital-only fashion industry successful is through these immersive experiences that really changes the emotion of that experiences. Where I would rather say, Oh, I'd rather play that Puma experience than go to the high street and to the store itself. So that's the big opportunity. And it's also very hard to reach, because if you look at gaming companies, takes them years to build games, many, many years. But the question always there is like, what is that one small thing that you can do to make that experience that gets people excited? A lot of people come up to me, even my friends, 'Oh, what you doing with digital fashion? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.' And I'm like, I pull up my phone. I'm like, 'OK, let me make you wear digital fashion.' Open up Snapchat. And all of a sudden, they're just walking around like they're a supermodel, just trotting around, showing like, 'Oh, wow, this is really cool.' Because you have that fabric simulation to it. It's something new. So we need to create those experiences that gets people really excited. About digital-only fashion. So yeah, DPC is just a starting point, but this is where we need to be going towards to. Immersive, call it games, call it experiential, call it immersive, whatever. It needs to be an emotional experience that resonates with people. DPC, B2B marketing, immersive, some keywords. That's what we used to do. But what we do now is way more exciting. And I think this is the true opportunity for everybody. This is what's fun to do because the space is unexplored. It's the Wild West. It's the gold rush. You can experiment. The rules have not been made. And if anything, the fashion brands have the power in place to make the new rules because people care. People look at the fabric and they don't care. Who's that tiny little startup doing funny things? But if a big brand moves into that space, people will care. And that, that to me will be the key in mainstream adoption. So let's look at the current use cases in digital fashion. I'm super excited. It's going to look like it's for 12-year-olds, but this Ruby Gloom. Minttu Vesala. Maybe some of you know. She's a Balenciaga supermodel. She's wearing our clothing. I'm from Finland. Minttu's from Finland. Finland's very small. Everybody knows each other. So it's very easy to get a Balenciaga model to wear digital clothing. Finnish? Alright. Moe? Crypto Fashion Week. So this is from a fashion week. Okay, it's not as cool as, as the Paris Fashion Week or London Fashion Week, Milan, New York, but it's a starting point. It's— I always tell people, don't, don't look at what it is right now, think about where it will be a few years from now. Because they're only getting better. And we're seeing fantastic stuff coming out from multiple different digital fashion players. And I must say, I just saw About You did some digital fashion collection. Inditex did something. Bershka did something. So it's really moving towards that space. So digital fashion shows are going to be super interesting. We did something with Star Atlas. So the two renders you see on the left, We dropped it on the Star Atlas game. This game does not even exist, but simply because FOMO is so powerful in the Web3 industry, that collection sold for $1.2 million, which is massive just for some digital assets that you cannot use. Everybody's like, what do I do with it? How do I use it? I'm like, you don't. It's a collectible. You just collect it and you look at it and you happy because you own it and with the hopes that one day it will be in the game itself. So I know a lot of people are very skeptical about the Web3 space. 99% that's happening in Web3 is noise, is bullshit. But that 1% is the future and the future for everybody. So Star Atlas renders. And then because we made some Star Atlas renders in high quality, you can also put them in Sandbox, which is a funny little voxelized environment that looks like Minecraft. But there's already hundreds of thousands of people using it. This year it's hundreds of thousands. Next year it's many more millions. So, you know, year by year by year it's growing, you know, it's still unexplored. So the earlier on you're in the space, the more future-proof you are. Could you play the video?

Okay, could you pause it, please?

So this is the Decentraland Metaverse Fashion Week. It was written about in Vogue, it was written about everywhere, the Metaverse Fashion Week, and it looks like this. It's unacceptable. We can't be saying like this is going to be our future of fashion. Nobody here believes in this. But what it's again doing, it's showcasing where fashion is going in the future. It's showcasing what will happen. Only thing that will need to be better about it is the graphics, is the experience. Basically everything about it needs to be better. But it shows there's people working on it. The Decentraland team, they're like more than 100 people. They went from like this 2D map experience into a 3D experience. Within a very short time. So next year it will be better, the year after that it will be better. A lot of fashion brands are already jumping on there. But one big mistake that I think most of you do, you're trying to sell physical fashion through a digital experience. The opportunity is selling digital-only items. It's more scalable, it's more sustainable, it's more profitable. Not yet, but later. Could you move on to the next slide, please? Could you play it? So this is— we launched— I'm not going to go too much into details what we've done, but we launched Season Zero, which is the Fabricant Studio, for 50 people back in August. It's a co-creation tool so everybody can make their own digital-only fashion.

And from that—

from those co-created items, we created a digital-only fashion show rendered in Unreal Engine. Now, it's limited functionality. Can you go to the next slide, please? And in this limited functionality that you see, it's an environment. It's a body. It's a situation. It's a time. It's an object. It's all the same ingredients as with all the creative stuff stuff that we do. But here, you can move the camera. You can rotate. You can zoom in. You can change materials. You know, it's the first steps in starting to make everybody a digital-only fashion designer. And I love the analogy of the smartphone because I come from film and visual effects. It made everybody a photographer. It made everybody a videographer. The Fabricant co-creation tool will make everybody a digital-only fashion designer. And you also couldn't predict all the apps, the Ubers. What else do you use on your smartphone that didn't exist before the smartphone? This will have the same type of effect. Could you play the next slide, please? So let's look at some of the opportunities that a lot of our collaborators are working. Because I believe that in the digital-only fashion industry, We're all collaborators. We're not competitors to each other because we would be competing for nothing, basically, when the industry is not there. DressX. I think this is from a Google Pixel. So we did a Google Pixel project, also digital-only fashion, where people could just wear digital fashion for free. We did it together with DressX. And DressX, maybe some of you know, you can upload your video to their platform. And you can buy digital clothing, and they dress you in digital clothing so you can share it on social media. This started out in 2018 when KarlLynx did the first campaign together with Vice, where they were selling digital clothing to social media influencers. And it was the same thing. Why would anybody want that? Oh, it's just— we're just becoming more vain. It's really just making us more selfish. The selfie culture is bad, but it's only growing. Star Atlas, you know, so talking about interoperability again, you know, those digital assets, they can live in so many different environments. Gaming is the huge opportunity, especially NFT games, not traditional games, but NFT games is where it's got to be because the keyword NFT, it allows for ownership. And it allows for interoperability so you can jump between environments. This is something that we did for Australian Fashion Week. We designed a digital-only dress. And then at the Australian Fashion Week, you would go into a pod, and you would sit there— stand there like this, and it would automatically dress yourself in digital-only clothing. Again, the Vogue magazine cover that we did. It's a QR code magazine. We did some content. And also the t-shirt that you see on the right video, it's an AR code. So if you point your phone at it, you actually get pointed at the Instagram, the Instagram AR headpiece. So you can actually also wear the digital-only fashion cover on the Vogue Singapore, the first ever digital-only fashion cover. We speak with Anna Wintour's team quite a lot. I think Condé Nast really, you know, they have an innovation mindset. But again, they're really trying to move into that space. And there's going to be some amazing things coming up. I don't know how fast they can move, but I think they're very, very smart people. So there's really amazing things, and I'm really looking forward to seeing what they make. Again, interoperability, a jacket. Really cool story. I love my fashion team. They're so creative. They're so passionate. And they're just having fun. They don't even care. They're just like, we're just going to make something cool, very conceptual, a lot of storytelling. And then this jacket then becomes an asset on Decentraland. So you can own it, you can wear it, and there's also an AR filter coming up. So let's just look at— okay, this is very high level. Don't judge me for this slide. So very, very basic business model, physical. Produced 1 million items. You know, most of the time it's less than 1 million items sold because most collections don't get sold out. Less than 1 million items worn and less than 1 million items thrown away, recycled, resold. We know all the challenges of the fashion industry. Now let's look at the digital equivalent. One item produced, infinite variations, infinite users. And especially this one for the Web3 heads, the secondary market royalties. It's like when, when I bought my first NFT and it actually sold, I think it was like 0.2 ETH, like maybe like $600 right now. That feeling of like something that I had bought had increased in value. It's like saying I buy this shirt I wear it for 3 years, and then when I sell it, I sell it for more money than I did before. That's very rare with physical fashion. And once that starts becoming a trend, that you're buying digital fashion assets and selling them for way more than you initially bought it for, that's when people's light bulbs are going to start clicking, because that's when the flippers start coming, and we see it in the NFT industry. People just looking at NFTs all day long, just trying to make a quick flip. So yeah, to come back to this, I'm not saying that— this is what a lot of people say to me— are we not going to wear clothing? Are we going to walk the streets naked? Absolutely not. What I mean by this, the physical fashion industry business model will become redundant. The digital business model is, is the one that will win because it's more profitable when activated in the proper manner, it's more scalable, and it's more sustainable. That to me is the true power of the digital-only fashion industry. And I tell you what the Fabricant vision is. Again, it started out with a dream, but looks like we're going more and more towards that direction. We want everybody to have only one piece of physical clothing overlaid by a layer of virtual identity, essentially meaning that you can download new clothes all the time. So if I was feeling quite uncomfortable with what I'm wearing right now, I'd be like, oh shit, let me just, let me change my clothing. Let me just download something, you know. So maybe it will happen 500 years from now. Maybe 100 years from now. But that's, that's where we're going towards, to reduce physical clothing from the world and focus on the digital experiences. So what's coming? What are we doing right now? A wardrobe for the metaverse. So you don't have to do it now, but write it down. Thefabricant.studio. For everybody to become a digital-only fashion designer, and creating an equitable community where all members who participate profit. And this is— we call it the participation economy, simply because you're taking part in that economy, you're making money. And the more you have activity in the community, in the economy, in the ecosystem, the more you profit. And I'll use a great example. It's cliché. Maybe some of you know Bored Apes, you know, picture of an ape. And all of you are asking like, well, why does a picture of an ape cost me $400,000? It's not about the picture of the ape. It's about everything around it. It's the community. It's the ecosystem. It's the activation. It's the fact that I get airdropped 10,000 APE tokens worth $140,000. I'm— me being part of a community, the right community, because not every community is able to do this. Me being part of that community means I'm making money. Bored Apes isn't the biggest example, but there's many, many more examples of this, and it's powered by the token. It's powered by Web3. It's powered by amazing people. That 1% that's not all of that noise, all of that scams, all of that cowboy attitude that's happening. It's the 1% that's doing amazing work in the space is the future. So, quick recap on what the Fabrikant Studio is. This is from Season 1. It's a little bit outdated, but give you a little bit of a sense of what we're doing. Could you play the video right now? Thank you. Thank you. Next slide, please. Thanks for that clap. It was very quiet, but I heard it. I'm not going to go too much into the details on the studio itself. You know, just check it out. It's invite only, but you can get in You gotta, you gotta go to our Discord, you gotta follow us on Twitter, and you will get enough information. So we're doing something with World of Women, which is an amazing PFP project, really with the same values as The Fabricant. Women-led project, and we're basically dropping a digital-only fashion collection with them and allowing everybody to co-create those items. So could you play the video please right now? Thank you.

It's coming out end of May, by the way. This—

okay, next slide, please. Yeah, sorry, it's an internet-based document, so if the internet sucks, the experience sucks. Just quickly about World of Women, we haven't launched that yet, but that will become the most biggest drop that we're doing this year with a fantastic community. Anybody who knows what DAOs are, decentralized autonomous organization, we've activated more than 20 women-led DAOs to take part in that. You know, we're not focused on revenue generation, we're not focused on making money, we're focused on building a community, making an ecosystem for digital-only fashion, and really finding out who are the true believers, because there's a lot of skeptics, and I'm sure there's a lot of skeptics in this room as well. But to me, there's no other way than this way for the future. Could you play the video, please? So this one, this one I'm super proud of. I'm not going to tell you what it is. It's early tests, but it's something that's coming out later in the year. And there's just so many different components. So when we talk about utility, this is going to be one of those steps that where we are improving the utility of digital-only fashion for you to be able to use it in multiple different ways. You know, it's pushing the innovation on how we design clothing, digital clothing. It's pushing the innovation on how we're experiencing digital-only clothing. There's no new tech. It's just the way we combine the tech that exists. That's the exciting part. Okay, next slide, please. Okay, so we got a full— we got a full— sorry, I'm out of words today. We got a big list of collaborations this year because a lot of brands are moving into that space. And when I say brands, I don't mean fashion brands. It's tough. We're negotiating with a lot of fashion brands for the co-creation tool. It's really tough because, you know what the mindset is? It's a one-off, it's a marketing project, it's a way to sell physical clothing, and it's a way to make as much money as possible for the company itself. Where we say, if you want to work with us, you have to co-create. You have to make your consumer the user that co-creates digital-only fashion with you. And if the project profits, you profit. So we're not making a company who's there to take everything like Meta. We're creating an ecosystem where we want to share it with everybody who participates. And some of the other projects that I'm, you know, really have my eye on, and I think you guys should be as well, Cornerstone Land out of Finland. Someone is doing that. Decentraland and Sandbox, Star Atlas, Artifact and Nike. Those guys are killing it. They're making millions and millions and millions. Nike's smartest move was to buy Artifact. Artifact's not so smart move was to sell to Nike, but that's their choice. That's really their choice. And what they just launched last week, I don't know if you guys seen CryptoKicks. It's really bringing those two worlds together in the best way possible. I'm really bullish on those guys, they're doing a fantastic job. Gala Games, I love Gala Games. They have a really, really bad UX and really bad experience, and the token that just keeps going down, but I'm super bullish on those guys. They're gonna do fantastic things. And Forte as well, I'm sure a lot of you working in fashion brands, Forte will be getting in touch with all of you. So please follow us on Twitter and Instagram. I would say Twitter— well, Elon Musk just bought Twitter, like he owns Twitter, so that feels a little bit weird. But anyways, Twitter is great, Instagram is alright. Discord, we say everybody who wants to participate in the community of The Fabricant, we're on Discord. We're very vocal, we're all present there. And we try to help people out as much as possible, regardless of the industry, regardless of what you're trying to do. Even if you're just shilling your own project, you can join us there. Final thoughts. I will have to pull out my phone for this because I had— actually, no, I remember. I remember what I wanted to say. The future of fashion is within the gaming companies right now. They have the tech, they have the experience that the fashion industry needs. But you know what games companies are not? They're not fashion. Only fashion people understand fashion. And that's my biggest learning from working with fashion designers. It's a different mindset. It's a different culture. It's a different language. And you need to be able to bring those two worlds together. Fortnite making like $50 million a month from digital-only clothing. You know, they're killing it, but they're not fashion. They don't even talk it. They call it skins. It's a terrible word. You know, so that's why I think the fashion industry needs to really embrace collaboration, cross-industry collaboration, because that's how the Fabricant came to be. A stubborn 3D designer and a young, naive digital fashion designer Both dreamers coming together and be like, "Okay, we're just going to try something new. If it works out—" It's those two different industries, two different cultures that came together to co-create. And I tell you, working with Amber Mai, creative director from fashion, it's not easy. We fight, but we fight for our beliefs of what's more fashionable, what's better tech, so on. You need to be able to embrace candid feedback culture, radical candor. It's the cliché, but it needs to be there. The yes-man behavior won't take us far. Am I out of time? I feel like I've been talking for an hour. I'm out of time? Sorry. There was a timer here, but it didn't move. So it's not my fault. Thank you, everybody. Really appreciate your time. Happy to chat afterwards. Thank you very much.