FASHION MADE: Conserve and Prosper - Tentree's unique story with Arthur Kononuk

Hello and welcome to another episode of Fashion Made. Today I have the pleasure to be joined by Arthur Kononuk of Tentree. Arthur, hello.

Hi, great to be here today.

Well, thanks for joining us. We obviously have an incredibly important topic of sustainability to talk about today. Tentree's story is certainly one that's very unique. I'm not going to tell it. Arthur, I'll let you brief the audience on what Tentree is and what it means.

For those who haven't heard about Tentree, we're a lifestyle apparel company based out of Vancouver, Canada, and we plant 10 trees for every item we sell. It's in our name. So, we position ourselves as what we like to call an environmentally progressive lifestyle brand, with not only giving back through planting the trees, but providing clothing that have, that are environmentally sustainable from the ground up to both connect our consumers for the ecological sense of the clothing that they're making, but as well connect them to a deeper, more communal impact with planting of the trees around the world.

Fantastic. So it's not just about using sustainable materials or sustainable practices, but actually also after that, there's another side to the story.

Well, that's, yeah, the funny thing I think with our origins of a brand, we started out as a tree planting company. So two of the core founders had early in their younger days, they were running a tree planting business, and that was something that was very familiar to them. And as they kind of grew up and got to be able to explore the, the world more and be a part of different communities, they realized that they want to find a way to give back. And that's where the 10-tree piece came in, giving back through something that was familiar, planting the trees. Then the clothing kind of was a spawn of that. So from there, it only kind of made sense to, you know, create the most sustainable clothing to go along with the fact that we're planting 10 trees.

That's really cool. I would have definitely thought it was the other way around when I heard of the company and the way it's set up.

It's interesting. Yeah, I think that's one thing that really separates us as a brand from what's going on in the world today. And obviously, like, there's We encourage sustainability on every front, but what we find are a lot of brands kind of going backwards now and becoming more sustainable and adding on that give-back component to their brand because it's like trendy per se, for them anyways. But for us, the difference is it's built into our DNA. It's our brand name. It's something that we started with foundationally as owners of the company, and it's something that we're going to continue to focus on first, which is planting the trees.

Okay, so whereabouts, which countries do you guys plant the trees?

We plant trees, uh, we have about 10 locations around the world that we plant trees. We plant in Madagascar as our primary planting site. We're getting to be around 9 million trees planted there alone. It's a very, very special story for us as a brand, just having, you know, some people from our team had the fortune to actually go there and be a part of of planting the trees and see the communities that we're helping flourish there. But yeah, every planting operation that we have around the globe has a different kind of need and a different benefit. So a lot of people will come to us asking, you know, well, first question is, what do you do? Second is, where do you plant the trees? And then the third is usually, well, why not North America? Why not my own backyard? Which we get a lot. And the answer there is really what we focus on with our planting is is the same with our manufacturing, is we focus on what is going to have the most impact for not only the environment but the people. And with the planting of trees in Madagascar as a unique example, we're re— we're reforesting areas along the coast that have been deforested and eroded from basically water washing up against the coastline. So that tree that tree line around the coast is actually being eroded, and then the soil's getting pulled, so there's not any nutrition around the edge of the island. And studies are saying that in hundreds of years, the island's gonna be receding, like, you know, it's meters at a time sort of thing, if they don't start planting these mangrove trees to kind of ground themselves, hold the soil in, and kind of become that defense mechanism for the island. But the other benefit is that it's bringing an ecosystem of fish back into the community. So what was once a fishing community is now— well, what once was a fishing community, the fish had gone away. We've planted these 9 million mangroves, and this village that we've supported is now a thriving fishing community and a planting community, all from trees, which is kind of insane.

Yeah, it is insane.

And then you've got the added benefit of all the carbon offset things, and those are the icing on the cake, but for us, it's like a holistic approach of how can we plant with the most possible impact. And there's stories like that around. I mean, we could probably talk for 2 hours on, on just the planting sites alone. But yeah, yeah, well, I'm sure there's lots more to get into it.

I mean, mangroves are amazing thing. They're amazing for birds as well, obviously. And, you know, these natural biosystems help one another. So, um, yeah, it's incredible, um, as you say. We could talk a lot about that. Um, I think really from our perspective, I'm really interested in not just the future of what Tentree are going to do, but also, um, what technology maybe can help you achieve those goals as well. Um, obviously for Pi Apparel, a lot of our focus is on the technological side of things. So something I wanted you to touch on a little bit more is perhaps how things like blockchain can help your traceability in this, in this area as well. I mean, is that something that you guys are looking at?

Sure. I think, yeah, it's funny because there's those, you know, the catchphrases that are like really, really trendy. Everyone's talking a lot about right now, but not everyone knows what the hell it means.

Yeah, I just had a podcast with Janet Liriano.

I listened to it. Yeah, it was fantastic, actually. It was a great educational piece and maybe a little prelude for conversations to come. So for us, what I think are really key— a key effort with what we're trying to do is build traceability into every aspect of our business. So there's a lot of give-back brands that will provide, something, a tangible offering, like whether it's taking waste out of the oceans or giving a pair of something to someone in need. But the difficulty there is really building that trust with the consumer. And in today's changing world, with the amount of access to information, they want to know. We get the questions all the time. They want to know specifics. We do right now the best we can in terms of providing that detail. So Every item that we sell actually comes with a unique code that is associated to their trees, a token you could call it, um, hinting to the blockchain piece. Um, so yeah, we've got our tree tokens now that come with every item, and that is really a kind of confirmation or the ability for someone to maybe claim their trees. So ideally, I mean, they're registering something that's already been done. We've planted the trees on their behalf. Before they register the code. The registration of the code is like registering a warranty on a new product. So what that means for us is really tracking that traceability from our farmer who's, say, in Madagascar planting the mangrove trees and keeping tally on his own, but building a bigger system of record for maybe where the GPS coordinates would be for that group of 10 trees, or even each individual trees. Finding a way to mark that with new and upcoming systems that tie into the blockchain, but also having like a bigger kind of full circle reference for our consumer that actually ties into the apparel side. So as you were talking about the last podcast, is really finding a way to have the traceability in that supply chain from the trees as well as the materials and manufacturing. So if we're looking at things like organic cotton and recycled recycled polyester. Those in ways are certifications that get vetted by somebody, and it's, it's, it's on our database now in a system, but it's maybe not in a system for our consumers to easily access. So what we're working on in the future is really marrying those two efforts from the manufacturing side of the sustainability, manufacturing side, the sustainability side of planting the trees, and building a full transparency system with on something that we already have, which is our Tree Token program, and using the blockchain as a system to actually manage that and provide the information to our consumers.

Yeah, it's a great goal. I mean, how difficult is it to try and achieve this kind of thing, and how far away might we be from it actually happening?

Well, I think the most interesting thing about how the blockchain is working is that not only is it all open source, In the spirit of transparency, everything is there, so the building blocks are really easy to get access to. The second thing that we found really looking at the industry is that there is a need and there's a desire and willingness for this to happen. So there are a lot of people that are willing to collaborate, especially on, you know, the development ideation side of actually getting the blockchain integration going. For us, I think the bigger challenges are really going to be further down the supply chain in areas where, let's say, they don't have internet. Example is the coast of Madagascar in Mahabana, our village, where they might have a cell phone, but they're not going to have cell service. So again, there's interesting systems that you can use in the same place that don't rely on having a connected network to kind of create smaller networks within villages. So they could in ways maintain their own database through different planting groups. And as long as eventually that, that main database can get pushed to an actual network, then we get that information uploaded and there's a full record of everything. So I think there's definitely a lot of challenges for achieving what we really want to do, and that's full traceability. When you buy a piece of clothing from us, any article, you're gonna know exactly where the cotton was grown, who grew it, who milled the fabric, who, who sewed it, how it got here. That, that's like, you know, cradle to consumer. And then the other side of this is going to be exactly what the tree planting is, where those two paths converge on a timeline of, you know, when the donations were made to our nonprofits, to get the contract going, you can see the whole contract with full transparency. You can maybe see who was the planting foreman that was responsible for the group to plant it, get GPS coordinates for where they are, and have everything in kind of one, one tight system.

Yeah, I mean, it's— I really can't wait for that day to come, you know. It's really exciting.

Us as well. And I think the, you know, as I said, we have been We have been doing this for now about 3 years, the Tree Token registration, but it hasn't found its way into the blockchain space. But it's amazing, like, you know, just coming to PI and listening to people talk about emerging technologies, it's really— even listening to other speakers on the podcast, it's really apparent that the change is happening, and a lot of people are not only coming forward with different innovative ideas, but also they're willing to collaborate on them as well, which is equally important.

Yeah, absolutely. I always say that's the most important side of this, is that willingness to work with people that you might consider to be a competitor, but they're not. You know, we're all in the same team here.

Exactly. And that comes back to us. Like, one thing that we've always said is, you know, if like a Nike or Adidas tomorrow suddenly decided that they want to plant trees with every item that they sell, we welcome it because we want more trees to be planted. We're not seeing it as a competition, we're seeing it as us inspiring other people to do great things. So we definitely welcome it in a lot of ways and we want to be collaborative and communal with it all.

Yeah, well, you've stolen one of my questions for you there. I was going to ask you, what would you do if someone else came and thought, you know, that's a great idea, let's just do that. You know, you'd welcome it.

Well, I can still answer the question. It's because it's one that it crosses through our mind, obviously in the positive way. Yeah. And we see it. We see— not to say that, you know, we're the ones inspiring people to do these things, but there definitely have been copycats in our space, big or small. But what's really important for us, I think, is what we like to say is we're We're sprinting and we're like, we are so far ahead in our mind that it doesn't matter. They can catch up to a certain point, but like, you know, these conversations that we're having about using blockchain and having traceability of our trees and our product is something that is going to take those companies years and years to figure out. We're still small, relatively small. We can flip switches and try things and make mistakes and learn and be a lot more nimble. And I think that's something that we're going to keep as a business as we grow, and keep that, you know, part of our core foundation and our attitude towards how we do things is even if we get to a big size, we want to be nimble and innovative and move quickly. And I don't think a lot of people are really able to keep up with us. No offense to anyone listening.

Hey, that sounds like a challenge. That's great. You know, I've got this image of you guys like the smiling Usain Bolt. Just sort of sprinting, sort of yards ahead of everyone else. Good, good, keep it up. I mean, that's a hard thing, right, is to grow and keep that agility. I mean, really hard.

Yeah, I think it's honestly, it's a part of an attitude of the people that we bring on, and what we're starting to learn with, you know, building our team from what was once 5 people to up to 50 today, which is crazy to think, and you go in the office and there's, you know, just there's people that I haven't met yet because they're new and I don't even know what they do or their names. That thing happens. But anyways, the important piece really is that I know everyone on our team is passionate about what we're doing. They love their jobs and they love what we are doing as a company to support other people. And that's a fire for us that is going to remain lit so we can keep being that Usain Bolt at the front of the 100-meter race with a smile on our face because people have that fuel. And I see it every day.

That really naturally leads on to, I guess, the social— I don't want to say buzz, but I will— around you guys as a brand, you know, as an identity, as a community almost. I mean, you guys building that kind of ethos with your customer base as well?

Definitely. And this is a really interesting one for us. Being again a smaller business in comparison to some others, we have been able to really, really grow our following in ways that these other brands haven't figured out yet. We're looking at brands that have been around for 20 to 50 years that have the resources, the, the, the, you know, the scalability. They have global or international following, but they don't have the engagement and the community drive that you see, not only us, because that would be definitely just, you know, ignorant. There's a lot of other smaller brands that have big followings, but us comparatively to a lot of clothing brands, we've got a ton of people supporting us. And what I think it really comes down to is part of what you just touched on is that ethos piece where we look at our social media as a channel to to communicate our values as people, not to sell people things. And I think that's the biggest mistake that I see from other brands, is that social media is just, you know, it's the free— it's the free magazine ad that they can just put a product in and hope people will see it, like it, and buy it. For us, it's really a channel for conversation, ideas, inspiration, and you know, the product finds its way in there, but in an organic and natural way.

Yeah, absolutely. It's truly social in that regard then.

Absolutely. And I think the— I mean, I might offend some people with this, but what I think the way that we are moving as a society, younger people are less and less interested in religion and traditional norms. And what those— what that ends up meaning is that they need to find community in different places. And what a lot of people are starting to say is that, you know, brands are becoming the new religion. They're becoming that new communal group where you can find people with the same beliefs, and those beliefs don't have to be spiritual beliefs. They can be environmental beliefs, uh, in our case. So we have a lot of people that believe in the same things that we do, the people in our, on our team versus the people that actually follow us on social media. It's really amazing to see that transition in a positive way because there are people out there that have views that maybe are different from other people, and they can find a community through a brand. It's really, really empowering for us when we think of the ability for us to really help course and shape younger people's lives and be kind of an environmental leader for them, inspire them to make positive change rather than inspire them to purchase more product for us. You know, simple things like how they're washing their clothing or how they're setting their thermostats or, you know, being aware of single-use plastics, making conversation around those and seeing the buy-in that we get from the younger generation is like, it's really, really inspiring.

Yeah, I bet. You know, I don't want to leave the oldies out either, you know, because I see, you know, I'm sure that there are, you know, people of all generations even if they've lived their lives in one way beforehand, are coming round to that way of thinking or changing their mindsets as well. I know that I've changed my mindsets on all these kinds of things environmentally over my life because of nature and nurture, I guess. Um, and this happens to all groups of people, and I think that movement towards a more sustainable, environmentally friendly, circular way of living is something that huge swathes of people are doing all over the world, you know, and it's great to see companies like yours, you know, really sort of championing that. You know, it's great to see.

Absolutely.

Yeah. You talk about old traditions as well and rebelling against them. I guess the youth have always rebelled against the old ways, but never more so than today.

Exactly. And that, I mean, that's really for us, even the way that we started our business, we looked at it as in, in ways when the idea was formed in 2011, in terms of being a rebellious act, it was something that was different than everyone else was doing. And to be honest, from the people that we told, they thought we were crazy hippies. And to say that is like, in our space, I mean, we're, we're far from being those those crazy hippies that, you know, you'd see in the '70s or '60s. But it's, at the time, was rebellious. And to your point, there has been a massive adoption globally for sustainability in all different avenues, and it's really fantastic to see what brands like us are being able to do is really bringing that to the forefront and making it kind of a socially accepted or the social norm that these are things that you should be thinking about. Making it more of a conversation piece so that, again, it doesn't have to be— you're right— the younger generation. They're the ones who are most vocal about it when it comes to the social space, but we have equal interest from our own employees, from friends and family, from our customers that are writing about how they're inspiring their students at school, like if, you know, teachers, for example. It spans in many different ways, and it's actually really incredible to see. See this movement that's happening right now.

Yeah, when people talk about sustainability, and I've spoken with a few people about this, you know, a quote I always like to say is, "There's a lot of noise, but not a lot happens." And I guess you guys have made meaningful change and by the sounds of it are aspiring to make even more meaningful change in the future. A question I have for you, Arthur, is with such terrible practices going around, going on, especially within the apparel industry all over the world, is one of the first changes we need to make is just to stop those practices rather than being this ideal version of a perfectly sustainable circular brand business, just to stop all the terrible waste and dyes and pollution and all of this kind of stuff and just trying to ease that, that's got to be one of the goals for us as a society first as well, right?

Absolutely. And it's a really tricky one. And by no means, for everyone listening, do I think that we're on some high pedestal of like being the sustainability gods. We are working on things just as much as everyone else. But I think to your point, I think it really comes back to consumer behavior that is being the most important piece of this puzzle. Because people are going to always find the least path of resistance, and for the most part, that has always been the most unsustainable one. So for us, what we really focus on is inspiring people to have behavioral change.

And if—

and I honestly think that's happening not just from brands like us, it's just, it's what's happening in general. People are being more aware of the things that they're consuming, whether it's apparel or, you know, food and goods, whether it's, you know, the energy that they're using in their homes, people are being more aware of it. And what it really comes down to is that everyone has the ability to vote with their dollar. And the more that people vote with their dollar on things like TenTree and similar brands, the less that those other brands are going to have a market share to even be relevant anymore. So I wouldn't say that it's necessarily about us you know, concerning ourselves about the big, you know, the big offenders. It's really about how we can just stop using them and stop relying on them in ways. And that's what I think, like, you know, Tesla being an excellent example of that, of a brand that everyone just loves for who they are. Um, not everyone owns a Tesla, but they love their mission as a brand. And that kind of goes back into that piece that I was saying about religion, you know, people are finding that in brands like Tesla that believe in like the future in a different way. And that's really inspiring people to take actions outside of, you know, how they drive to work or what car they purchase. It's that they're part of that, that vision that, let's say, Elon Musk has.

Kind of in the spirit of TenTree, I want to circle back to the roots of when you joined the company. And how it's been growing from that time to where you guys are now?

I never in my life imagined that we would, we would grow to be who we are today in such a meaningful way. And see, I know I've had the fortune to go to our planting site in Haiti and see, you know, the lives that are being impacted there. We've had members go to Nepal, to Madagascar, Malawi, to to actually see and be a part of that.

Oh, fantastic.

And it's amazing. It's like, you know, that's the icing on the cake for all of us is the work that we do to build something, to build our own community and our own employees and have the positive impact that we're spreading through social, but to actually go and physically see the impact that's being made globally is just something that I never, never imagined. Imagined in my life.

Yeah, I bet. And it doesn't sound like it's stopping there.

Well, our, our goal is to get to a billion trees by 2030. That's, that's our big, hairy, audacious goal as a company. So we've got plans on how we want to, to do that, but it all plays into that bigger piece of sustainability. And with us actually planting trees, it needs to be done in a sustainable manner, and we like to do it through communities where they are benefiting in, as I said, in many other ways, but they're also taking ownership in protecting and caring for the land and the trees. So we have a lot of great ideas on how we want to get there, and that one bigger piece is really sharing the story in a deeper connection with the consumers through that tree token registration and really seeing the whole story from, you know, the trees that were planted when we were selling stuff out of cars out of the back of our cars to where we are today.

Do you mind sharing one of your plans for how you're going to get to a billion trees?

One of our plans, I think, is really looking at— and this is coming quite soon— is looking at how we can make TenTree more accessible to a lot of other people. So one of the questions we get from our customer care team a lot is, you know, people want to contribute, they maybe don't want to buy clothes. How can they, how can they do that? So there's a few options. There's one where we can allow people to just pay for trees to get planted directly and not purchase anything. There's ways that other companies can be a part of our planting story by maybe collaborative opportunities. And then there's ways of making products that are maybe less apparel-focused and less may be driven by— they're maybe more so driven by replacing something that is not currently sustainable in their lives as a more eco-friendly option at a lower price point, where we're able to plant trees and get more people involved, getting more age groups involved. So that's maybe looking at different demographics, because right now our apparel is really focused on that younger millennial. Group, so there's a lot of other people that don't wear that product that want to participate. So opening it up essentially to those people. Sorry if that was a very vague and stupid answer.

No, not at all. No, sounds like there's lots of opportunities there and you guys have really put your heads together. Look, Arthur, I'm sure we could talk for hours, but, you know, podcasts can only last so long. So let me just say thank you. Amazing to hear some more about Tentree, how you've got to where you are, and all your great plans for the future. I can't wait to see it happen.

Thank you so much as well, David. It's fantastic for us to be able to share our story to other people and hopefully inspire someone out there to start making some positive changes with their day-to-day.

Thank you.