FASHION MADE: Upskill and Reshore - The New Factory with Jen Guarino, VP at Shinola

Hello and welcome to another Fashion Made. Today I have the pleasure to be joined by Jen Guarino. Jen, thanks for joining us.

Hi, thanks for having us.

Absolute pleasure. Jen, you are the VP of Manufacturing at Shinola, founder of the Makers Coalition, and president of the ISAIC.

Correct.

Okay, what does that stand for?

That stands for Industrial Sewing and Innovation Center, pronounced ISIC, which is a new initiative set to launch in January of '19 in Detroit.

Oh, cool. I really love the story behind Shinola. Can you explain to those that don't know how it kind of got started and what it's all about?

So in 2012, we launched a brand that was actually a reinvigoration of a former storied brand called Shinola. Shinola used to be a shoe polish company for, for decades, and it was dormant for years, and we reinvigorated the brand, and we did so with watches as a start, and we chose Detroit as our home. And the reason why we chose Detroit as our home is because of its rich history in manufacturing. I mean, it was really the epicenter of manufacturing in the United States. And it's just in the DNA in Detroit. And our founder, Tom Kartsotis, was the CEO and founder of Fossil Products. And when he left that company, he decided that he really wanted to do something that would impact people in the United States directly. In other words, create jobs. And he felt that Detroit made all the sense in the world. So we moved to Detroit. And if you think about watches, you know, You know, think about it as, you know, a little tiny auto engine, you know, encased in something you wear on your wrist. So it made all the sense in the world. Flash forward, we shipped our first watch in 2013, and we make over 100,000 watches a year now in Detroit. We also make leather goods, bicycles, leather products, and paper goods. So it's been an amazing, amazing experience to be in Detroit and to have really be uplifted by a city city that just gets manufacturing, and to be a part of this resurgence that we see, this renaissance, shall we say, of Detroit.

Yeah, even I knew that, you know, growing up over in UK, Detroit obviously has a huge and rich history in manufacturing.

Right, yeah, it's really, you know, it's been known for innovation for decades, and its music, of course, both, right? And actually, when we We moved to Detroit, one of the things that we really wanted to do was present manufacturing in a new light, in a new way, sort of the manufacturing, manufacturing in a way that it's presented and practiced in an honorable way. So the first thing we did was we moved into a facility that is shared by a college, College for Creative Studies, and a charter school, an arts charter school. So in our one building, which used to be the engineering design headquarters for GM, we have this ecosystem. We haven't found anything like it in the world. There might be something, but we sure haven't found it where we're, you know, we're literally co-located in a place where students live. There's dorms there, go to school, and where we manufacture and design our products. So it's really, it really is a different setting for manufacturing. In fact, if you go to visit our factory, it's You know, it looks, sounds, feels very, very different from the factory that comes to mind when we think factory. There's music playing, it's beautiful, there's window seats for the artisans, a very, very different environment.

I bet. I mean, what struck me about the company was kind of the human side. I mean, retraining an entire workforce is kind of a massive undertaking.

It's a big undertaking. You know, the way I think about it is, you know, you can buy a building, you can buy equipment, You can buy materials. But it's nothing without people that are skilled. So I believe our greatest investment has been in the people. It takes time to retrain people. Most of these people worked for the auto industry in one form or another, either supply chain or directly for one of the big three, as they say. And it's been a real joy. In fact, my desk is out in the factory. It's where I choose to have it. I really like being in the heartbeat of it all. What's very important about Shinola is that if you visit our headquarters, the factories are not in another building behind cinder block walls, back in a place you don't see them. It's very much in the middle of our operation so that the way, the reason why we're there feels different. We share lunch space, lounge space, workspace with the people that make the product as much as the people that might account for the product. It's a fairly unique environment.

Okay, all 600 in Detroit?

No, we have about 400 in Detroit. The others are throughout the country, and essentially those are our retail folks.

Okay, so back in the factory, how did you go about upskilling the team?

Well, I would say the most important thing is that we did not go it alone. So what we did is we searched the globe for the most preeminent masters in each category. So we formally partnered with a Swiss watchmaking company to come and train. So they spent months on end with us. And you flash forward years, and now we can train ourselves because we have people that are now masters of the trade. We did the same on the leather side. We partnered with another company that is a globally renowned leather goods maker, and they came in and trained us. So it's really the master's training a whole new workforce. I think we would have failed miserably had we not done that. And that's the investment that we're talking about. It's just not the time that it takes to train and your lack of efficiencies while you're training. It's, it's you're paying for those partnerships to pass along knowledge.

Sure. So how about your role at Isaac? How long has that been in the pipeline for?

So this was a really interesting process. So we've been working on this for about, about 14, 15 months. And it came from industry network saying, there's an opportunity here, what does it look like? What's the opportunity look like? So literally we started meeting every other Monday night for 3 hours creating this thing. And it's been a really amazing experience. And you know, we're working with potential brand partners. It's a really exciting venture.

Okay, and a few years down the line, what are you hoping for next?

Well, we plan to be a pipeline for talent. Oftentimes when you're talking about the future of anything, the first thing you talk about is, you know, well, who's going to know how to do this? Who's going to know how to learn the new tools? And often, I believe, in the United States, we fail on that level. Workforce development is not something we're, I would say, stellar at. You know, some parts of our culture are good at it, some are better than others. But I think this is a category that we're not great at. And so we plan to be a really high-level pipeline so that when companies are ready to reshore, to use technology, that they know where to go to get the talent. So they can focus on the manufacturing, we can focus on developing the talent.

So when reshore production does happen, you're going to be very well placed for that. And it's going to happen, which is great.

And it's— the wonderful thing about it is we can learn from some of the things we learned at Shinola, right? Some of these lessons that are— they're hard lessons, you know, to retrain from scratch and to build a brand new factory from scratch in a category that a region has no relationship with. There's real challenges there. So hopefully Isaac's going to be the beneficiary of some of those tough lessons.

Yeah, and it's already changing. Fashion and apparel, you know, typically manufacture on the other side of the world, which needs to change.

I think it breeds irresponsibility, you know, and I think that it's just like, hey, if If you don't have to put your trash in a trash can or if someone just comes and takes it away for you, then you're going to be irresponsible with the way you recycle things, you get rid of your rubbish. But if it's out of sight, out of mind, you don't take it— there's no accountability for that. And I think the fashion industry understands that. But I think one of the big things that we have an opportunity for— and I'm saying about the United States, but I think other countries have the same opportunity— is to completely change the way we look at manufacturing. You know, why do factories have to feel the way they do? Why can't they feel human-centric? Why can't they? Certainly, if technology is a tool for us, you would think that would be able to afford us some other human-centric sort of components to an environment. So I think the opportunity is to really change that, and I think we have to because there's a stigma attached to manufacturing. That has been built over decades. And without really changing that, technology is not going to be enough.

I mean, we always talk about cultural change when it comes to technology. You can have the best tech in the world, but if you can't change that mindset, you know, to sort of utilize it properly, then it's kind of wasted.

Yes. And, you know, what's amazing to me in the experience that I've had at Shine Holland, it's been really remarkable in that how simple these solutions are to make a more human-centric environment. You know, to have music that is created with playlists built by the people that's working in the factory, it's remarkable how much that changes the environment. It's just incredible to have my desk out there instead of being behind a, you know, a closed door or behind a glass door. Those things are huge, huge. And in fact, we used to— when we first started, we would gather fairly often and have pizza lunches with the folks in the factory. And I would meet with them without any supervisors present just so we could have an open discussion over pizza. And the topic was really around how do we become more of what we like instead of less of what we like as we grow. And what was interesting is The conversations all started from where they had come from and how, how they were treated in manufacturing and other places. Things as simple as my supervisor never even got to know my name. So for them just to have someone, you know, management go through and call them by their first and last name and know how many kids they have and where they went on vacation, just very simple things. These are very basic community-centric things that manufacturing just lost.

Especially the fashion industry, you know, which seems to care so much, but it's also kind of a wasteful industry. You know, it's not, um, sometimes some processes aren't that environmentally friendly, etc. Is that a, is that a reflection of the consumer behaviors around it as well?

Well, with convenience comes lack of appreciation, right? So now we buy something, we wear it twice, and it goes in the trash. Well, if it takes you a while to get that made for you, especially for you, You know, you're less likely to wear it once and toss it, and you're also likely to pay more for it. So it's a whole value proposition that is very, very different. But to me, the irony behind this, because if you think about it, the fashion industry has the opportunity to lead in innovation because what are we doing? We're doing two things. We provide utility, something that covers and protects our bodies, and we provide a form of expression. Right? So it's utilitarian and it's creative. What a great intersection to innovate. So the irony that we have not been innovating in a place that's ripe for it, I think is so, so ironic.

Yeah, that is crazy. What's great is now people are realizing this. And this is why we have this podcast as well, you know, this industry is such an exciting place to be. There's so many people with new ideas and new perspectives on things. It's great to see.

Yeah, I mean, I've been in the industry for more decades than I'd like to admit, but I've never felt the industry feel as— there's a vibration right now.

It's super energetic.

Yes. And there is a sense of urgency now. There's a sense of responsibility now. And there's also, I think, a sense that it's not an option. It's a requirement now. It's not okay to do it the way we used to do it. And so it is an exciting time. And I think people that are involved in this space are, you know, really pioneering people. And everybody's really enjoying this process because we know something's going to come out a lot better from this, right? A lot better. And, you know, as in technology, some of these companies you'll never see again, and some of these are going to be standards for the way we do things in the future.

So how do you stay on top of all these developments?

Well, I think, you know, Shinola has a very specific specialty in the products that it does, and we just want to get better at those specific products. And I think that we can begin to look at our own practices to enable that. And I think from a larger perspective, I mean, you know, I have a job at Shinola, and then I have another job that I feel like is research and development. Where any opportunity I get to attend anything, just like, you know, PI or whatever it might be, it could be also just, it could be a roundtable in Detroit, could be a roundtable in Nashville, Tennessee. I say yes to all of them because you walk away with something from absolutely all of them. And once you get circulating in those sort of, in those environments, you really, a community gets created. You know, and then all of a sudden you know who to call. And all of a sudden the dots starting, they start connecting. And that's how you stay on top of it. You have to stay engaged. It is not a 9 to 5. It's a lifestyle of curiosity.

It reminds me of a conversation I had with Sarah Krasley.

She's the one that brought me here. I thanked her today. I said, man, am I glad. See, there's an example. I just said yes. She said, hey, would you like to? I said yes.

So yeah, it's nice to see people with such passion for the human side of this industry, which has kind of been lacking somewhat.

Yeah. Yeah, it absolutely has. So it's going to be— I think we're going to see things, you know, it's been building up to this point and now we're going to start to see a lot of trialing. You know, a lot of things are going to be tried. And how do you connect from design to manufacturing to the end consumer? And what are, what are the touch points and how do people stay centric in that process? It's going to be very interesting to see how these touch points come together.

Yeah, definitely, because consumer habits are going to change with new tech as well, which means we're eventually going to be buying products before they're made.

This is back to the future. I mean, the whole ready-to-wear market, that came from when fashion was not made ready-to-wear. It was made to order to your measurements. That's the way we used to dress ourselves. That's the way we used to purchase clothes. And then the Industrial Revolution comes along and we create ready-to-wear so you can go in and buy it off the rack. You don't have to wait for it. Sound familiar? And so now it's funny because now we're reverting back to a made-to-order profile that happened before, only this time it's with different tools. The way we deliver it is in a different channel, but it really is sort of back to the future.

Yeah. I mean, have we been doing it wrong all these years?

It could very well be that we have. We might wake up— historians might look back at this period of time and say, Wow, you know, it's like, it's sort of like, wow, you know, people used to smoke in airplanes. When did we figure out that wasn't good, right? So, I mean, it could be the same thing happens. We might look back at this period and go, wow, who was running these companies? Who was making these decisions? We might very well find that that's exactly the case. You know, that larger is not better, that maybe clustered manufacturing, localized manufacturing is all together.

Yeah. Yeah, cheaper, faster, all the things that people are looking for, and more personalized as well. So I hope we do get to that point because that sounds like a lot more fun. I love the idea of a tailored suit, you know, for that to be the norm.

Exactly. And if technology can help deliver that, that's, that's a big win. That's a big win on so many levels. And so it's going to be fun to see.

Yeah, exciting times ahead for sure. Jen, look, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Everybody get up!