Life Within Sustainable Manufacturing With Jenny Siede

Hi there, welcome to another episode of Fashion Made. On this week's episode, we speak with Jenny Seder. She's the chief thinker and maker from InStyle Exchange, and they're a sustainable apparel manufacturing service company based just outside of Austin, Texas. Just on a serious note, before we start today's podcast is that, uh, during this chat, the topic of death and suicide does come up. So I just want to make you aware of that in case that's upsetting for you. But generally speaking, we do just talk about the fashion industry, but I think it's really important to discuss mental health right now, and I just wanted to make you aware of that. But with that said, here's the conversation I had with Jenny earlier on. I hope you enjoy, and all the best. Jenny, hi, nice to meet you and welcome to the podcast.

Hi David, thank you for inviting me. I am the co-founder of InStyle Exchange, and what we do is we actually a hybrid micro-manufacturing company. So we are completely vertical. I usually help people from their conceptualization of their brand in apparel all the way to production. So what we do here is we actually work with our clients on finding sustainable materials and like recycled materials for their collections. And we also help with even putting in technology, what we call wearables, into their collections. I could do that too because of my background. What I would like to emphasize is that we are not a one type of— a apparel type of manufacturer. We are actually product designers. So what we do is I can do bespoke suiting all the way to swimwear. So there's no market that we cannot do almost. I mean, there are markets I do not touch because of regulations, like children's wear. But as long as, you know, there's an idea, I can help people make it happen.

Okay, see, and how long have you been doing this, Jenny?

Actually, I started in 2006 with my business partner at that time, ex-business partner. She actually has passed on already. And every time whenever I I jump on a podcast, I mentioned that because I think people need to think of their business life as a part of their whole life. Because if you're stressed out and you don't do well in your business, running a business as an entrepreneur, it's going to affect everything in other areas. And so unfortunately, my co-founder, Kiran Bindra, She took her own life a few years back.

Oh God.

So the amount of stress sometimes is high, but I would like to bring awareness. You have to take care of yourself.

Absolutely. I think we're all realizing how important mental health is now.

Yes.

Yeah, yeah. Well, I'm sorry to hear that, but I'm glad that you're making a point, a very valid point of it, and keep bringing it up because it's really, really important, as you rightly say. So with that in mind, you guys have obviously started something fantastic. It's taken you, well, 15 years now, and you guys must have so much experience. What has the last year been like for you?

The last year I was able to continue to work on some of the projects for existing clients. Actually, one of my favorite things to do is uniforms for the hospitality industry. And of course, they took a really big hit last year because they, you know, everything just shut down and no one is checking into hotels, people are not flying. But still, we were able to work on some of the uniforms for the staff members. The company I work with, they are based in Dallas here, they call McReady Experience. So what I enjoy about the project is that they, their concept, I mean, their specialty is in hospitality, hotels, and really offering a great experience to their customers. While I, on the other hand, I can help enhance that experience by help with work with them to design their luxury uniforms. Again, so small quantities, most sustainable amount of uniforms or aprons and their Captain's Blazers and things like that. We can help people like businesses to work on while they focus on their own marketing and their own growth, while we can take care of other solutions that they need. I mean, we definitely not a payroll company, but we are uniform company as well in that sense.

Interesting. What are some of the new techniques that you have been using to manufacture things You're saying potentially on demand, small batch, high quality. In the last few years, have you seen technology play a more and more important role in doing this?

Oh yes. So my background is in software engineering, software design. I started in Boston, I went to school at Northeastern in Massachusetts. And so I always loved technology. It's just I also have this little tiny voice behind my back about 15 years ago and say, "Well, remember your childhood dream? You wanted to be in fashion." And so I combined the two worlds. As soon as I started the business, I realized I just love the process of creativity. So it's just finding a solution for an idea that excites me, whether it's actually a software application or it's an apparel garment. So the last year, it's just tremendous to see that when we are restricted to travel, we can actually concentrate on, okay, maybe fitting is no longer needed in person, right? So a lot of times in the past, people was like, okay, I have to fly to China to get my samples made, but if they're working with us, they now can actually see the 3D garment on our avatars. We use aptiTex software and we can actually do all the fitting. And that's what happened last year. A lot of my projects, including an athleisure brand I helped design called Bodied, we actually just do everything using 3D. And then I created the actual sample and then the client actually received those samples and they can actually try them on. I also tried on a fit model at the end of the cycle, and it fits so perfectly. And I just love technology because technology cuts down so much of guessing game, because nowadays you can actually simulate how a garment is draped on a body. And because of that, that collection actually, it's made for women from extra small all the way to 4X. And my uniforms too. And so, um, we can create multiple types of body types, some with larger bones, some with, you know, small hips. And so we can test everything else without stressing about, okay, is it going to work, until it hits the market. And honestly, the last 15 years, uh, all my clients have zero return because I'm so dedicated to the fit and the process of making it's a quality product for my clients.

How has the client reaction to technology been? So if I can elaborate, when you show them on an avatar what the garment will look like, you know, maybe a few years ago they would have preferred to have seen it in real life, but how has the reaction been now that they're forced to see it in 3D because of all the restrictions?

Now I have to admit that that's why I love PI, the PI platform, because I met, I meet a lot of like-minded people and also pioneers in my field. Now, so 3D is still really new for a lot of people, so they are still skeptical. Is it going to really drink like that? But when we actually, at the end, like I said, at the end of the cycle, a product development cycle, we can still try it on a real person. They just got sold like, "It fits exactly like the simulation." Like, at least in my part, because I know measurements are the most important thing, just like developing software. So every inch, every cm, everything has to be perfect. I am a know-that-way, and I enjoy my OCD.

So— I think this has been such an interesting theme for Paya Power as well the last few years, seeing different people's reaction to new technology. Because at first everyone is always skeptical, almost everyone, you know, when something is new, that's our instinct is to be skeptical of it. But what we've seen now is the entire industry really, if they had never considered 3D before, now they're considering it. If they were considering it before, now they have it. If they had it before, now they're advanced in it, you know, everyone has taken a step forward over the last few years. It's a very exciting place to be, don't you think?

Now I do want to plug in one thing because I do have two interns and I appreciate like time, spending time to teach the next generation. So my goal is to get them on track from their peers to stand out among other people that they can do 3D simulation and in apparel development. So one thing that I always emphasize is there's no replacement of a great 2D pattern. There's no replacement of understanding the anatomy of the body. Okay, no matter how many— how much money we spend on tools, if the people who don't know how to use the tools— and that's why I, when I meet with my clients or interns, I always emphasize that It's like, it's still an exercise of the mind and it's still a buildup of experience. So even though you can afford a $500 million tool, it's not going to change your business overnight.

Yeah, I think that's a really, really good point. Do you feel like the industry maybe relies too much on technology sometimes and is forgetting its roots in that almost artistic skill of— it's a combination of art and engineering, isn't it?

Correct.

Fashion design, yeah.

It is so true, and so people, so many people don't look at it that way, but whenever I speak with them, I would say it's really engineering discipline first, and then is the artistic expression next. And that's why I love both worlds, because it's like, oh, I can actually get to create something amazing but still functional. So I think what companies need to realize is There is a steep curve if you're trying to teach a technical designer into a 3D simulator. And I see that because their background is not totally based on computer science training, the design thinking part. So this is something that I am, as an advisor for some of the universities in town here, I help them to understand that part. It's because a lot of kids I met, they said, "Oh, I love to draw, so I'm gonna design." But you know what? Drawing is only 0.04, 0.5, like 0.05% of what you need to do in life. And what you actually understand is the materials, how things react with each other, and how it actually works on the body. And then the lifestyle of the users, right? I mean, I use users because I developed software for so many years. How people wear it, how people are going to function in it, they play a really big part. And I think don't focus just on the technology investment. You have to develop the whole person.

Where did you develop your skills?

Oh, I developed by working, I developed by reading a lot, and never, never, ever stop learning. Because especially with technology, you know, the moment that you're kind of like, oh, I'm just going to take a week off, oh, everything has changed within 24 hours. But what keeps me excited is I love learning new things. I love being on the cutting edge of everything. And I remember even in the software world, I used to raise my hand all the time when They said, "Who wants to learn this Java XML thing?" I said, "Yeah, me, okay, I have the time." I would spend my own time at night just to catch up on new skills. And I think I bring the same thing into my business because to some people, they have to go to work. For me, it's I'm going to go to play. So I'm playing all day. I love my studio. I love just being creative.

Do you find your interns share that passion?

Uh, not easy to find them. I had like— I joke about that— I have 27 interns before these 3. So, uh, one of them is already closer to being my, my assistant, but 2 of the new ones, I'm going to bring them up because I, I really want to instill that passion in them. It's like, you're going to be a creator, you're going to be innovative, This is exciting. Like, don't be afraid to make mistakes. Don't be afraid to step out of your comfort zone because, um, just so much like imagination. Like, I just love the world that you can actually create, and you actually see it happen. In my world, you see every imagination happening because that's how we execute it.

Jenny, tell me why, um, what you guys do is so great for the more small to medium-sized businesses?

I think I would have to say since I came from corporate world, I think I as an entrepreneur, I can relate more to my entrepreneur clients, the small business, the medium size, because we do have a cost constraint, we do have all kinds of concerns that as an entrepreneur I understand. So that's the niche I want to focus on because I can always suggest something that is less costly, and that can help them to get started. And then as they grow, it's scalable. I love the fact that whatever solution I give my clients in the apparel branding and the development part, it's always scalable. So I have a bigger factory partners as well. So as the brand grows, they will get the help and the volume they need. But we can always start at the smaller scale where we can actually focus on the proper process and how to minimize the amount of waste and really focus on streamlining the cost. And so that's what we can do for people.

Has one of the benefits also been the fact that you're made in America?

Oh yes, I mean, When people— I read this morning a little bit about the Brexit thing. Some of the warehouses are full and the logistics and the distribution centers are having a little bit of a hiccup. Now I have to admit, in times like that, when I do my Made in America, I have a lot more control over the timing and the logistics, yeah, the delivery. So whenever I promise someone, I never miss a delivery because I want to make sure that when they expect their goods, they'll get the goods.

Yeah, and there's a tariff thing as well, you know, tariffs on imports has certainly been a really big discussion within the industry for the last number of years. Whether that changes in the next 6 months or not, we'll see, hopefully it will, but that's probably been, I guess, helpful to manufacturing facilities that are located within the US?

Now we do have a challenge still because almost everything is still made overseas, like our resources, the fabric, you know, the trims. But I— that's why we actually concentrate on working with people I've worked with for over 15 years. The suppliers are all in USA when we work with sourcing. We don't go Beyond the parameter, I mean, because— yeah, because we want to make sure that again the delivery is going to happen as we want it to happen. So I need to make sure that my reliable wholesalers who are importing goods, but since they have their own planning and they have been reliable, then I can just always rely on them for like immediate delivery of fabrics and trims. And so I can continue to also meet deadlines on my end. Of course, in general, because of labor costs, made in USA is higher than, you know, if someone would have gone to a smaller country. But there are benefits because you can concentrate on small runs, again, holding less inventory. So it's actually balanced out at the end of the day.

I'd like to ask you about the sustainable materials or recycled materials. You know, I'm having lots of conversations with people about material innovation and it's a very, very interesting area. One thing I was saying to someone the other day is that it feels like there's so many small players in this field and no one is quite making that giant leap to join the big boys, you know, the polyesters, the cottons of this world. Tell me about that and how your experience has been over the last number of years with sustainable 'inverted commas,' sustainable materials?

I'm so happy you bring it up because I think my experience is similar. So at least one of the more popular recycled polyester is produced by bigger companies. But we are seeing, you know, like the California people are still doing the mycelium, the mushroom, although it's far from ready for the market because I just reached out to them again 2 days ago and they said they really are not there yet. It is a challenge to get something off the ground and it's going to take years, you know. It was funny because I'm also very much lucky in a sense that my husband is a microbiologist and so I know how hard it is to actually work with bacteria. And so I understand that that process of, you know, to really metabolize—

Decompose.

Yeah, decompose all those fiber, even though it's natural, it will still take time. And then let alone you only get a little small amount and then you have to make a big cloth, right? I think in between right now, I would suggest the solution is to really focus on collaboration forward. I understand it's a very enticing place to say, I have a patent on this and I own the trademark on this. But I think collaboration is the key to drive innovation forward.

Especially sustainable innovation.

Yes, correct. We need a lot of people work together. Like, someone should include me because I know how the sewing machines work and I know how construction work in terms of developing garment. So what they are developing, it's very essential to— like, it's very important for them to understand my world too. How am I going to use the product at the end? Now, that's another thing I always bring up right in the first meeting consultation I have with my clients, is that you have to look at the end results first with me, which I have a lot more experience, of course, and then we will roll backwards to what they actually want, because that is, you know, you have to see the big pictures first, and then you make it, break down everything into small steps, and then execute, and that's how you get it done. So, you know, I hope that some of the more innovative fiber people are bringing in the end, you know, the actual consumers in the mix, right? Because You need to know again if they're going to really enjoy the product at the end. You still want their input, you still want to know. Don't just focus on, okay, how am I going to work this part? Like, it's just micro-focus. We need to look at the big picture and then go back and lay out all the steps in the process.

I think you're absolutely right, and if they don't have that sounding board of different experiences around them to make those decisions, then it will never become as successful as I was saying earlier, they'll never make that jump to be one of the big players, you know, in terms of materials. Have you actually used any what you might consider sustainable materials in any of runs or with any of your clients?

Actually, funny, it's actually for my best friend last year, so we used burlap. Burlap is very much biodegradable, so we just need some gift packaging for his company. He owns a maple farm in Vermont. And so we're going to put all the bottles into the bag. And so during the design process, even though it's packaging, to me sustainable packaging is very important. And so knowing that burlap can, you know, just biodegrade after you finish using it completely from end to end, just a really refreshing way to do product development. And of course, it's my best friend, so it's very enjoyable.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, you know, it's interesting because, as I was saying earlier on, lots of discussions around this topic, but actually sometimes it's quite hard to find specific use cases for sustainable materials. As you rightly said, it just isn't there yet. Fantastic.

So I recently, I actually ordered some cactus leather from Mexico, desierto, so I'm going to try that out for a utility blazer. I think another trend that we're seeing is that people want multifunctional garments and, you know, non-gender specific, it's neutral and you can actually, more people can wear it and then it lasts longer and then At the end, you know, the cactus leather can actually completely decompose as well. And so I'm excited about trying that route.

Lastly, I want to talk to you about wearables. Jenny, you said that you've been incorporating some wearables into some of your collections or some of the work that you do with your clients. What kind of wearables?

One of the projects we had before— oh, first of all, I always mention this one, my really joy of mentioning my experience. In 2015, I actually worked with the electrical engineers from a company to create the Olympic jackets for Michael Phelps and Simone Biles. And so like at that time, it's not as advanced as nowadays. The sensors and the battery and the microprocessors are much smaller now. So, but anyway, we were wiring everything so that it will lit up USA in the back. It takes a lot of battery. And so one thing I know about the wearable, you really have to think about your power source and how long it lasts. You don't want to just have something that lasts only like 2 seconds. You know, people have to charge it all the time. But what I've been working on is, at least last year to finishing up, is a garment that since he still has not officially launched, is a garment that helps the athletes in his field to take their vitals while they are playing their games. Actually, it's basketball. But it actually have to make sure that the pulse and all the blood pressure and everything can be measured correctly. And the challenge is when you're playing a game, you are geographically moving all the time, every single second. Now that is the challenge to a software engineer, which I wasn't on the team for software engineering. But because I have extensive background in both ways, I was able to at least guide the team and also material. Because when you're playing, your body is heated up, so you want cooling materials, right? So I offer the design to be something that is very quick dry and it actually will maintain a cool temperature. So there are already fabrics that will stay cool all the time, no matter what. And so you want that type of fabric. And also, how do we prevent the contact between the wearer and the sensors, what type of material backing we'll need. And so I have suggested a certain thing. I can actually share, it's just silicone. And so silicone, now you have, you know, a lot of things that you don't have to throw it away anymore. Like, you know, I use silicone for my leftover food. And so the same type of food-safe material is very usable in my world of wearable development.

It's really interesting. I find the world of wearables a fascinating world because it does seem to be used more appropriately for— maybe you would consider it a medical device. Oh yeah, rather than a piece of fashion. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, it seems to be very, very prevalent in med device and it works because it actually— it's not very fashionable, it's more functional.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, you don't see people walking down the street with lights in their shirts or their jackets because it's not very functional. And I think fashion does always have to be somewhat functional. It can't just be art, it has to be engineering, as we said earlier.

Yes, so I think my focus is still like helping clients find solutions of— and I have engineering collaborators because I came from that background. And so It's the power source again. It's always like, how do we make it more sustainable, like, you know, more natural? We don't— we're not there yet also, but, you know, at the end, it might be someday that we can actually— I see it like you just mentioned, medical use. I see it as like a lifestyle enhancement for a lot of elderly people, right? Like, my parents passed already the last 2 years, but You know, I remember there were a time I constantly worry about them. I remember installing all the webcams in my mother's house because I don't know what would happen, right? And so I think wearable in terms of meshing into apparel, there is a future in that, and it's to enhance the lifestyle of some of the people who are maybe physically more challenged. And then also really connecting, you know, our family more together and knowing that someone's, you know, heartbeat is still there. It's great, you know, I think.

Yeah. Jenny, is there anything that we haven't talked about today that you'd like to get off your chest, as they say?

No, actually, I thank you for letting me share my views because So that's how excited I'm always when I talk about technology and apparel, because I just love a great product. And this is exactly what I want to do. And I want to work with like really innovative minds. They don't have to have the background in apparel or software, because I can help them to get there. So as long as they have a great idea.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, Jenny, I'd like to thank you for joining us. It's been really insightful to see sort of life within the microfactory, as you rightly put it.

Thank you so much, David. I'll talk to you later.

Yeah, look, thanks again to Jenny for a really interesting chat there, and thanks to you for listening. I hope you have a lovely rest of the week and join us again next week for another episode of Fashion Made. Until then, bye-bye.