Made in the USA: Innovation at the Edge of Nearshoring

Welcome to the last panel of the day, the best one, I think. It's been a time of pretty significant, great change for manufacturing. We had a pandemic, unprecedented, which led to disruption in supply chain, massive disruption in supply chain. Things like, you know, inventory getting stuck on the wrong side of the ocean, containers getting stuck on the wrong side of the ocean. We still haven't recovered. We then have brought ourselves into a time of tariff shenanigans, upheaval. But what's come out of it is a lot of rethinking of manufacturing and supply chain, and onshoring and nearshoring has kind of emerged as a valid alternative. It offers huge advantages like speed and agility and transparency, access to social and sustainability advantages, but there are significant drawbacks as well. So we're going to get into all of that today. I think there's some great innovation that helps address a lot of the drawbacks, but Hopefully we can find out more about it together, and we're going to bring up a group of super smart, good-looking people to share. Come on.

Come on. Thank you.

Ajá. I'm not making the introductions because I think they're much better at introducing themselves. So we'll start with, uh, Karen.

Hi, so I'm president of Footwear Innovation Lab, and we work with brands to help them manufacture here in the United States. We pair them with the factories that will meet their needs. And a little bit of background too, I was president of Jems Factory based in New Hampshire, and my whole career has been in the footwear and apparel industry.

Alex.

My name is Alexander Zaur. I'm founder of La La Land Production and Design, last standing manufacturing for last 25 years, and we produce domestically for last 25 years. And with this, all the events, hopefully we will produce even more.

Perfect.

My name is Ian Batch. I'm also 15 years in the footwear industry, and I'm head of product for a company called Something Added, which was founded in 2024 to revolutionize sport and the footwear industry.

I'm Steven Burson. I'm the CTO at Presk. We're a design-to-manufacturing company helping creator-led brands go from concept to production-ready product.

I'm Kate Nishimura. I'm the senior news and features editor at Sourcing Journal, which is a supply chain publication based in New York, and I am the West Coast editor.

I'm Peter Abraham of Abraham Studio here in LA. I've been doing sports marketing for about 30 years. And most recently, I've been doing a lot of work with bicycle industry manufacturers and 3D printing.

I should introduce myself. I'm Sean Scott, CEO at Community Made. For this discussion, we exist to champion making things closer to where the consumers are. The first question is, and this is for you, Alex. Then, yeah, put you on the spot, but of course, guys, please feel free to chime in, is why did you 25 years ago commit to, or today, why have you committed to manufacturing domestically?

Well, it was introduction of the euro to Europe that caused this. I had the chain of the retail store of my own brand and exchange rate went out of the whack completely from 85 cents to a dollar to $1.65 for exchange rate. So rather than going to the China, I decided to see that if I can produce for my own retail stores here in LA. So I started with one person, myself, and one artisan, and we grew to become 300 employees in Los Angeles. And we always worked, never competed with the international world. We were in luxury, and I felt home in here because I love California, and here I am.

Karen, what do you see as advantages to manufacturing domestically?

What I see is the fact that you're able to be closer to the product, working with the team closely. It's also a meaning of quality control. We all know that we have to deal with certain timelines, like certain new year that happens and stops everything from a supply chain standpoint. And to be able to do that domestically here, as you know, Americans, we never stop working. You know, we're able to be able to be closer to market as well when you're able to work domestically. So I think there's quite a few advantages.

Awesome. Ian, I kind of feel like you might have a take here on, you know, you're focusing on 3D printing. Why? You have— there's a factory in Barcelona that you're working with. Why focus on the US?

Yeah.

So with Something Added, when we started in 2024, we started with a 3D printing factory in Barcelona. Leveraging HP's 3D printing technology for footwear. And now, you know, we're continuing that evolution. And— but the big reason for why USA is, well, number one, this is where most of the consumers are, especially for running footwear, which is kind of where our, I would say, significant performance advantage lies with of the products that we're working on right now. And, uh, you know, we're starting with the factory in San Diego that will be open in December. Um, small factory to start, but, uh, you know, we believe that the future of footwear is, uh, faster to the market, faster to the consumer, and, you know, personalized performance. And that if you start with the product first, and if you start with the consumer first, that's how you will win on made in the USA. And so it really comes back to being fast to the market and being closer to the consumer.

Thanks. Perfect. Kate, I can't totally see you down there. You are. You just came back from Sourcing Journal Summit.

I did.

And I know there's some good stuff that came out of there. I'm gonna ask the, well, I mean, we talked about, ask the other way. Why would a business be hesitant to do manufacturing domestically? What did you hear?

Yeah, yeah, well, as a journalist, these opinions are not necessarily my own. I talk to a lot of people like yourselves, manufacturers, but also brands, logistics providers, academics, and I think one of the things that came out of our conference that I was hearing a lot, you would think that it would, be cost. You would think that that would be the main concern. And it still is a big concern. You know, the cost of labor here is so much higher than it is, especially like in Asia, for example. But a lot of it also has to do with the perception of what the offering is here in the United States. Like, is there enough diversity in what's being offered? Can we only do t-shirts and simple products here? And then there's also some questions about like verticalization and just like the way that some supply chain is set up. You know, is there, you know, is there an end-to-end supply chain here that can really be leveraged, or do you still need to import fabrics and components and things like that from overseas? And does that kind of negate the advantages of doing business, you know, closer to your end market? So those are some of the considerations that I've heard. But, you know, on the flip side of that, I think there is a lot of interest being driven by the tariffs, of course. Unfortunately, there's so much chaos going on with that that We haven't really landed anywhere. I think companies are just right now still hedging their bets either way. Hopefully, we see some movement and some solidification of strategies moving forward in the coming months, but I'm really not so sure.

I'm going to take your cue and segue into the next topic, which is in some ways maybe the elephant in the room is tariffs. It's just an open-ended question. Maybe I'm going to put Peter on the spot a little bit, but you know, you're dealing with your business, you're dealing with kind of a global set of players. So how do you see tariffs impacting manufacturing, say, in the bike industry or industry in general? How do you see the tariffs affecting things?

You know, Kate put it a good way when she said we haven't really landed yet. So obviously everything is still in flux, and I would say I mean, I'm here sort of representing the bicycle industry. None of the bike brands can do any planning for 2026 or beyond because we don't really know where it's going to end up. But I can tell you, as somebody who's working every day on onshoring some bicycle equipment manufacturing to the United States, there— it's not as simple as, oh, just make it here. I mean, some of the raw materials, for instance, for 3D printing, like some of the metals, are imported from either Canada or Japan. You can't get them here. So that's a 50% tariff. And then one of the— I just got an email last week from one of the main 3D printer manufacturers, Renishaw, that said they're raising the cost of their 3D printers due to tariffs 10%. So there's sort of nowhere to hide from the trade tariffs even if you are onshoring. So it's a really challenging time. And like Kate said, it's super dynamic.

I think for us and a lot of the folks, we're in the same community, the tariffs theoretically should be an aid aid to us. And maybe ultimately the tariffs will be a benefit for onshore manufacturing, but it's been the uncertainty that's putting a block on a lot of it. Does that sound about right? Or anybody have something to add to that?

That's right.

Yeah, I think the fact that we also just need to be able to get support if manufacturing is supposed to be such a focus that, you know, to be able to get support in terms of money from our government to be able to help us to innovate, to be able to get into the manufacturing needs that this country is looking for now.

We're going to go off topic, not off topic, off schedule a little bit, but I think Alex, you probably have stuff to add about what it takes for what kind of support we might need.

Well, manufacturing of the traditional footwear manufacturing for what it is being happening over the wall, other side of the ocean, it is not possible to bring it back to America and scale it. We have to look at it completely from different way— view. We need to reinvent ourselves and take advantage of the leapfrogging to the future. And we did 3D printing, 3D knitting, 3D bonding, and direct attach system. With all of those technologies combined together, we will be able to compete even at the price point with the overseas. However, it's significant investments, and those investments by small companies, they will not be able to achieve it. And in order to do that, we needed some industrial policy from the government or otherwise partnership with some of those big brand suppliers that they want to have a footprint in here and partner with them and just onshore with them.

Sean, can I just add something to what Alex said? You know, for the last like, um, 5 or 6 years, I've been traveling around the world visiting bicycle factories, at least in the United States and all around Europe. And my, my main takeaway is that just trying to do a note-for-note recreation of how they're manufacturing bikes in Asia is just not going to work. The— just the labor costs alone just take that make that unworkable. And I think it's going to take, like Alex said, bringing technology into the equation. Like, I'm out here, I saw Carbon making 3D-printed saddles, bike seats, Ian making the running shoes, Create.me with the robotic apparel manufacturing. All that stuff is really interesting to me. And like Alex says, I think that's going to leapfrog us beyond the labor issue.

If I could add—

Nice segue. Well, Steven, you have the next one. Go ahead.

Yeah, I might be jumping the gun on one of your questions, but it's like, what is the advantages of like manufacturing here in the United States? And it's like, well, it's not going to be on cost first and foremost, but it will be on speed to market. It will be about flexibility and it'll be about like mass customization, personalization. And the thing that I'll pose to the room and to the panel is we can go down a whole rabbit hole about what made in the USA actually means from a whole lifecycle. But I also think we're still thinking about this in a very narrow dimension, which is about how us as manufacturers manufacture. And if I had to argue how the US actually nearshores, it's not necessarily through manufacturers and businesses. It is through personal manufacturing. And I think we talk about 3D printing. We talk about digital design. We had Viscom earlier here talking about ideation from concept to tech pack. And it's like, well, when you actually have hardware such as Bamboo Labs, which candidly, they are an Asia-based company making hardware. And it is like, where does their supply chain end and like their raw materials? But it's like if I had to define made in the USA as something that is literally manufactured in the US and you couple that with the design technology that is emerging here, it's like the future of made in the USA is actually in your own home where like if you were in one of our earlier sessions with Mikey talking, it's like we believe in most good ideas come from Star Trek and like the Star Trek replicator is coming. And like 3D printers and hardware are going to get to that point. Yeah, I'm just very passionate about it, but I forgot what the question was.

But it was, what's your favorite color?

Teal for sure. Yeah.

Yeah. Actually, it was great. Thanks.

Of course.

Super good. But I want to carry on from that is what specific challenges have you faced and And Alex, limit it to one. Okay. And then— I talk too much, guys. And then what did you do to overcome it? And I'll start with you, but I think I know you guys all have an answer to this question, but let's pick a few.

Look, onshoring, it is all, to my opinion, it is a joke if you don't get the commitment from the brand and commitment for giving us a hope that if they invest, they're going to be behind us and they're going to help us to have the market. And that's what I feel that this was the biggest challenge and changing the paradigm of looking at the ex-factory to ex-factory, not considering the whole lifecycle of the product, eliminating forecasting, overproduction, discounts, and this discharge. If you look at all of those globally together, we actually maybe be at parity with the overseas production. And that's what I see, and I am trying to push, and I see some indication that people, they're starting to listen.

Yeah, thanks. Ian, uh, challenge that you overcome or didn't overcome?

Yeah, I think still the challenge, um, is maybe expectation. So, you know, just the expectation that, you know, made in the USA means that everything we buy is gonna be made in the USA, or it means that all footwear and apparel is gonna be made in the USA. I think tapering that expectation to just being, you know, some unique products are made in the USA, but really leveraging that, like, why are you making it in the USA? And always coming back to the product and making sure that the product has an advantage over something that's made in Asia and that there's a why behind why you make it in the USA. But, I mean, yeah, our challenge still is just, well, it's mostly hoops in getting corporate structure set up and legal entity and finding funding. There's still, I think, a big mystery around how do you navigate a lot of that side of just getting going, even if you have the desire and the funding to do it.

Yeah. Thanks. I'll chime in that I think it's a universal difficulty in letting people know that it's possible here. There's an emotional block that Asia is the automatic default place for footwear production. And then there's people who are in the industry, you know, for me also, for a lot of us, the general tone in the industry is, well, you just can't do it here, period. And nobody really looks into it anymore, which was probably true for, for 20 years. And I think it's maybe not true anymore. So I feel like that's kind of the overall challenge, the overall struggle.

Sean, can I just add on to what Ian said? Please. Ian brought up a good point, which is the customers. And as a marketing person, I always think about what's in it for the customer. And I, and I do see some technology startups that are like doing tech for the sake of tech rather than trying to specifically solve customer problems. And I think that's a super important way to kind of reframe new technology is what problems can we solve for the customer.

I had almost the same follow-up to Ian's note, is we should be, and hopefully there's, I know there's some brands out there, you know, what do you guys need, what do you need from domestic manufacturing to make it more interesting and beneficial for your business? You know, looking at it from the customer point of view. I'm tempted, there's some really good questions up there, I'm tempted to divert a little bit, but I'm going to, In an effort to do that, I'm going to skip to our last one. This is a free-for-all, but what do you see for the future of domestic, nearshore, onshore, personal manufacturing? What do you guys see? What is your dream, or what do you expect to see, or a little of both? Steve, if you have one.

Can you repeat the question?

Star Trek. Yeah, what is your favorite band? Uh, to actually, for you, it, you may want to— there are some things you left unsaid about personal manufacturing. Is that what you see as the future? And how, maybe, how does that fit into the grander scheme of, of, uh, nearshore manufacturing?

Yeah, I feel like, um, kind of what you were saying, Peter, about like not being able to like forecast out for certain markets. I think part of that, like, obviously there's like the supply chain, and that's like one variable to like forecasting. I would say like another variable is like actually like what is the market saying, like specifically across like different media channels. And I think like one specific behavior that we at Pressk have noticed is like there's much more creators or influencers or celebrities or personal brands, however you want to label it, that are like much more trying to like monetize their audiences or their communities. Communities, and they're starting to take more ownership over their own brands. These are essentially, from a manufacturing perspective, emerging brands that may or may not have product-market fit, but they have somebody that— they have attention in the attention economy. And I think when it comes to personal manufacturing, it's like, in the same way there's macro influencers and micro influencers and nano influencers, it's like, And even on like the household level, it's like the future of personal manufacturing really is going to be like these different tiers and scales. And I think it's like, if you think about like traditional software and it's like, we're going to make an MVP and we're going to like put it out into market and like see if it works. And then if it sticks, we're going to like really go and scale that. And when you look at like the new tech stack of software and hardware across manufacturing, we're at this threshold where like people can actually like launch MVPs. Physical products. That's like net new to the, to the world. And so it's like, what is the future of the market? It's like, to me, it's actually within control of creators. And it's like, you know, maybe this is super ambitious, but it's like the future of bike manufacturing may be in your own home. We don't know. But there is theoretically all the tech exists. It just has not been configured to actually do that, but it actually exists and it's possible.

Kate, did you hear anything along the lines, future?

I mean, I'm not a manufacturer, so I think, you know, I should leave that part of it to the experts. But just hearing everybody talking, I think one of the things that maybe United States manufacturers need to be thinking about is just differentiation. And I, you know, Alex talked about this earlier, we're not going to be Asia, and that shouldn't be the goal either, you know. And I think I've actually had, I've Conversations with you, Sean, and Alex about how the United States, you know, we haven't really been exporting products in a long time. It's really been IP. It's been innovation. It's been, you know, intellectual property rather than physical goods. And I think there's a way to kind of blend that, right? You're hearing everybody here talking about these innovative processes and really owning that to the end of, you know, being more sustainable. More performance-oriented. And I saw earlier you had a question up there about consumers and whether they're willing to pay. And consumers here are paying for their iPhones. They're paying to have the latest and greatest technology right out of California here. So why not sneakers? Why not clothing?

[SPEAKING CHINESE] On that one, I was going to— actually, go ahead, Ian.

Oh, I was just going to— yeah, so I think to answer your question, what does the future look like? I think 3D printing does enable personalization. And everybody gets excited about, oh, I'm going to make something custom. I think the future looks something a bit like consumers' preferences and consumers' desires blended with choices and preferences because, you know, in a lot of— in some other businesses where consumers are allowed to design their own shoes, it has actually resulted in one of the largest returns out of anything. So as it turns out, most people are not actually that good at being shoe designers. But I think people still like the idea of personalization, and they still like the idea of being able to, like, make something that they feel is theirs. Um, but I think that's going to end up being some kind of a blend between— and if you can bring in AI and if you can search, you know, someone's previous purchase history and you say, okay, like, based on all this purchase history that they can, you know, share with us, you know, this is the type of product we think would be best for you.

Yeah.

Well, I think that, uh, what I like to see the future, it is the marriage between the artisanship and the technology. I think then we will address— because technology, sometimes it is too far out and people are not used to it and they are not ready for it. But having the both traditional and the technology combined together, we can address the needs as well as the performance. I think rather than customization, I think the customization can be focused on the comfort, on the performance, rather than the color of my thread that I'm going to use, because then you're going to create problem. But if you do customize for the actually needs of the individual, I think we will be able to create a nice, beautiful niche market that is not price dependent, because you will pay when you are comfortable. As an example, I believe that Taryn Rose, was one of the people that I used to produce for there, and she was making a poron comfortable shoe that was overselling the Chanel. And people, they were paying more money for her shoe than the Chanel because it was comfortable. So I think comfort and customization, it will be a key player in our goal.

Why are they mutually exclusive? Why can't you have customization on a stylistic perspective and comfort?

The reason that I was just saying, because Ian was saying that a lot of it, it is just return because the people, they will not like what they designed themselves. So that's what the reason I said. But if the customer is happy with their own design, of course that makes it even more icing on the cake.

I was gonna Unless somebody else— I was going to open it up to that first question. I was going to put it back— Anne, thank you for the question. But this is a question for the audience. Do you guys— are you willing to pay a premium for a USA-made product? Show of hands who, yeah, you would pay a premium. It looks like about 50%. Yeah.

Why?

Why?

Thank you. Yeah.

Or wait.

Yeah. Does somebody want to volunteer why you wouldn't pay a premium? Let's try that. Why you wouldn't pay for yourself? Okay. So go ahead.

So when you pay for USA-made, you're paying back the economy. At some point it's going to flow back to you. So why you would not pay for yourself?

Correct. The comment was that if you're paying for USA-made product, it goes into your economy. It comes back to you. Um, Judy.

I would like this because for me, it really depends on what the product is. I'd be product-specific about what I'm buying made in USA. If it's an instrument, I'm willing to pay more for the premium price because I know the materials are better. I know the craftsmanship is better. Depending on what other countries are making that instrument.

But if it's a—

Cotton t-shirt?

—t-shirt, I don't know.

If it's a much higher price for a regular t-shirt, I'm going to buy the t-shirt made from whatever other country with a less lower price.

So, right, product dependent.

Adam? I mean, I would almost argue that there is a pretty significant delineation between valuing something made in the USA versus valuing something made in community. And, you know, made in the USA, perhaps that product is abstracted away from me in a way that is not differentiated from the other products that I'm looking at. But I do think personally I value products made in community, and I value products made by, uh, perhaps like cultural activators that I share, uh, connection with or story with. And I think, uh, that is what drives like my buying behavior when I'm thinking about a product, is what is my connection to that product, uh, outside of maybe the performance qualities or the cost drivers.

Super good points. There are two in there. I guess the main one is connection to the product. And I think that's really the value proposition there. And then there is a lot of evidence that locally made is actually resonating better than USA made. Was that a hand? Yeah.

About cottage industries to— Okay, sorry. Is creating and to make something more sustainable in the supply chain and having these cottage industries in, you know, one in New York, one in LA, because I was talking about my bioplastic materials and how to you know, mass-produced. But I'm like, that's the whole point, is to try to not become that type of, um, product. There's 8 billion people on the earth, so it's sort of hard to do conventional sustainability with the systems we have in place now, such as global supply chains and, you know, taxes and using gas and diesel to get the one place to another. So If we started to have these little cottage industry layouts where there's like cottage, to say the word cottage, but it could be a small factory, multiple places that you serve your community, your state, a couple states that then you send, and then, you know, the one in California makes for your tri-state area and the one in, you know, England will do that. So to shorten the distance and I think people would resonate and pay for that storytelling, that heritage of American, like, you know, Levi denim and Harley-Davidson, this type of what we have. I mean, America is very young, so we don't have, you know, the Italian, let's say, uh, Gucci that's been around for like, you know, but we could start and build upon what we already have by doing that. The United States is huge, so to have build businesses like that in small parts. We could have one in each city, each state, and there'd be 50 factories that you could use driverless cars, which I got into the other day, which is amazing. Dropped me off at the wrong place, but true story. I recorded myself, but whatever. But, you know, I think, you know, Zara was a model when it first started as being fast to market because they were down the street. The seamstress was down the street, the textile, you know, and the stores were all around each other, and that's how they got so quick to market. So I think if we think of that in smaller, you know, I think we could solve a lot of problems. And I think that would be—

Yes, so you're really— Thank you. Sorry, I'm Italian. I could talk forever. Yeah, but it's a— Thank you. It's a great point. I mean, you really— you took kind of what Adam said and gave an example of how locally made can be built out and emphasized. I agree.

Sean, what I'm hearing out there is there's like 100 answers to that question based on is it a commodity, like is it a t-shirt that's a dollar more, or is it a car that's $10,000 more? Is it made in the community? Is it part of a a creator? Does it have a strong brand behind it that people want, or is it a commodity that people don't care about? Like, there's so many ways to answer that question is what I'm hearing out there, which is interesting.

Yeah. Do you have anything on your mind that distills that into— No, it's actually a great point. And I think to even illustrate— I'm almost there— even illustrate that more, I think You have that whole set of those multiple questions with multiple answers when you're talking about an enterprise customer versus a consumer.

And it's also then what the brand wants to stand for. Yeah.

Bringing that product to market. Yeah, it makes a lot more sense for some brands than others, right? Yeah, very good point.

I would totally add to that. I completely agree that there is a million ways that you can answer these. But going back to another way or another point of view is like the reality of the economy of the United States people. Like when you have a society with 70% of people earn, I don't know, $40,000 a year, they not gonna pay for a premium product made in, it's made in here or like whatever there is. It's just the reality. Not the acquisition power to allow people to acquire those type of products. So yes, maybe made by communities and all of that for people that earn over six figures, uh, what's that, the 10% of the United States?

So that's a great— it's a great point. It's a great point.

So, um, I, I feel like that's again going back to your point. There's a million things things you can look into it, but like there is also the socioeconomic kind of, um, state that the United States— it's hard. People don't have— like, if people in the United States don't have more than $400 in savings, like 70% of people, so why would I pay $200 for a t-shirt that is made in here? Or even if it's a luxury product, like, that's not even within our range. Like, yeah, so there's a lot of things to look into that as well.

Honestly, that's a great point. It's something we've— I think we've all talked about at different times is that, look, the initial push here is not to shift all manufacturing nearshore. I mean, there are a lot of people that are served by low-cost manufacturing, mass production, a lot of people served by that, that need that. And that's important. I think if we're going to talk about domestic manufacturing today, I think there are opportunities with— God, we saw some good innovations going on here— opportunities with automation and I think even additive manufacturing that will allow us to get the cost down. But yeah, it's a great point. I would say in general, part of that is we may— oh man, I'm going to throw it out there— but we maybe should think about buying less, maybe paying a little more for it, making it last. And that can be done locally.

If I could add something to the made in USA thing, I feel like as manufacturers, as designers, as companies, I think if we lean more into solving problems, then it's like the technology that we use, whether it's additive or traditional, or if it's like overseas or domestic, like it's about solving a problem. And I mean this like kind of abstractly, like for the person that wants to buy a product because it's like made in the USA, at face value, I think that answer is no, right? But it's like, it's a problem to solve when like I want to buy a product from someone from my community. So like, what is the problem to solve? It's like, how do I solve the problem of feeling human connection? Through a physical artifact, which is a product. And so it's like, when we solve problems for people, we will sell things. And the reality is, there's different lenses at which you can view people, but like socioeconomics is one. And it's like, made in USA has no value for a certain threshold of socioeconomic status. And additive manufacturing doesn't have economic value when it costs twice as much and the company is about trying to hit a bottom line. But it's like, if the company values speed, AKA they're solving for a problem, which is speed to market, then additive has value. And so when we start to abstract things and think about problems and solutions, it's like, that's how manufacturing, agnostic to the tech and agnostic to the location, really adds value to anything.

Thanks. Actually, I'm processing it. You're right. I'm looking at a question over your head also. Did you have somebody? Oh yeah.

I was just going to add, and you sort of touched on it already, like consumer behavior over the past 10, 15, 20 years has gotten like things are cheaper and cheaper and, you know, trends are faster and faster. So I feel like to make, like, you sort of need to shift that consumer behavior and that perspective towards, you know, this is worth the value because it lasts longer. And like, there's a lot of like the psychological element of like you need to redirect. Yeah.

Oh man, you're speaking to the choir with that one. But that's, you know, changing consumer behavior, cultural behavior. I mean, that's a, that's a a big long-term project, but let's get started.

I think The RealReal did it pretty well when they talked about luxury items and that actually being a form of sustainability because the items were quality and so that there's longevity in that. And even though somebody else has used it and worn it to what they wanted to, to keep it in their closet, then the fact that you're going to go ahead and purchase that quality item that's going to last, they then term that from a psychological standpoint as this is sustainability as well.

Yeah, actually that kind of, uh, jives with what— what's your name— what Dean was saying. Yeah. Can you tell people what The RealReal is in case they—

oh look, it's a, um, a resale, uh, for luxury items.

Yeah, sorry about that. I think also repairability durability is very, very, very important. You know, you have the Hermès bag that you spend $35,000, but you know that that goes through generation and generation and every day it gets more value. And also if you want to repair it or if you want to just convert it to something else, you can do so. And the natural material that I think it is very important when they buy product for the, at least for the, in the luxury market, Because we have done a lot of repairs for Louis Vuitton and with the Goyard and all those brands that the product comes back to us. If the handle is broken, they don't throw it away. We refurnish it and we reintroduce it to the market.

I'm going to come back to you. I just want to add a little bit to what Alex said. There's a question up there about, is the opportunity for local manufacturers to participate in the circularity space more repair, recycling, reuse, etc.? Absolutely. I think it is actually— it is obviously far better here, the opportunities for repair, reuse, and recycling. Circularity in particular cannot happen unless you're making things close to where the consumer is. You can't send the waste back overseas to have it made. But actually, for the most part, China won't take it back anymore. The answer to that is yes.

I, uh, sorry, and also to, to add, you know, on top of that, if, if you can show me evidence, you know, like it is better— talking about, for example, circularity or, or economics or durability— if you can show me evidence that is better, and, and it is better because it's made here, I will buy it, definitely. Yeah, makes sense.

Better, uh, You had the microphone, good. Okay, but maybe you're just projecting really well. Better, when you're talking about better, you mean either quality, sustainability, service, any of those?

Yeah, depending on who you are selling to, but if you show me evidence, why not?

Maybe that's the answer to Peter's question about, you know, there's multiple questions. Maybe that's the answer, show me the evidence and it'll be worth my while. Somebody else had something. Something to say. You know, Sean, I would add one thing.

I mean, a lot of us up here are talking about— there's a lot of technology that we've talked about, 3D printing, robotics, all kinds of other things. And I would just say we have to really be patient. One of the businesses I'm involved with is 3D printing. We've been building prototypes for 5 years, and we're still a year or two away from getting to market. And like, the new supply chains have to be built. It's new materials. It's a new kind of engineering that those people have to be trained. It's new factories. It's new manufacturing equipment. It's new software. There's so many things that have to be scaled up from zero, essentially. We're going to have to just be really patient with this. We can't just turn it on overnight.

Easy for you to say. No, you're totally right. I'm being a smartass. But I'm like everybody else. I want it to happen. Now. But yeah, it's going to take time and we're all going to have to work together to do it. I think we're winding down. Sean has some closing remarks. Were there unanswered questions from the audience? Unsatisfied statements that you wanted to make? Kate, were there things you heard at Did we miss any of them? Hmm. Oh, actually, that's an interesting one about— I don't know what the case is where a company acquired brand made in USA only to move manufacturing to Asia for higher margin. No, I'm not a fan. I mean, look, there are a lot of— I guess maybe I'm answering. There are a lot of businesses where they want to have the the service of developing a product closer to home, and the goal always had been to make it overseas. I mean, obviously I'm a champion for local manufacturing, but you know, there's a much bigger world than just my own. So yeah, that happens. I don't know about buying a brand— who that was, I'd love to hear about the story— buying a brand and then just absorbing it and doing the manufacturing in Asia. You guys Know anything about this?

Well, several companies, they usually, they buy the companies and especially in the venture capital world, they go and buy the brand and then they dissect it and throw everything and they go to overseas for production. That's happening and that's for sure. But I think that he's discounting something that we haven't talked about. It is that every country has its own cachet. Americans, we love here anything that is made in Italy. And grass is greener is in the other side, they say. But if you go to Italy, you are willing to pay $500 for a pair of the jeans that is made in USA. And so same thing goes to Japan. If you have a Horween leather product, just because it's name of the Horween, that it is made in Chicago by hand and made in there, you can sell it at the premium. So we discount what cash we have globally for exports rather than only domestic consumption. 70% of the everything that New Balance produces in America, it is exported, not consumed locally. So we have to look at all that opportunity as well in the future if you are looking at the onshoring and domestic manufacturing.

Thank you. Thank you, guys. Thank you. Thank you. Really excellent. Thank you. And thank you all for joining us. Appreciate it. Take care.