PI Apparel Spotlight: Designing for Connection not just Conversion | PI Apparel

Hello everybody, I'm Dominic Miserandino, CEO and founder of Retail Tech Media Nexus, RTM Nexus. You can find us on LinkedIn. And today, welcome to Py Apparel's Retail Rebels little preview. Our focus today is one that feels increasingly urgent in today's retail landscape, designing for connection, not just conversation. Brands are more challenged, are being challenged more and more to build emotional resonance to create stories, spaces, and communities that people genuinely want to be part of. And today's conversation will explore how some are doing just that, shifting from brand voice to brand belonging and turning transactional retail moments into meaningful, lasting relationships. We are thrilled to be joined by an outstanding panel of speakers who I will soon introduce from across the retail spectrum today. I won't steal their thunder. But you're in for a rich, thought-provoking conversation. Before we begin, a few housekeeping notes. If you have any questions, pop them in the live discussion box on the screen or email them directly to mkr@pi.tv. That's mkr@pi.tv. If you miss anything, want to revisit the discussion later, it will be available via Seamless, Py Apparel, YouTube channel, etc. And of course, this is a teaser of the big event coming up in October, Retail Rebels, the newest event focused entirely on rethinking The hows, whats, and whys of the customer journey. We'll be digging deeper into topics like storytelling, values-driven retail, immersive brand experiences, post-purchase loyalty. So if today sparks some ideas, you'll definitely want to join us there. For now, let's get into it. So let's introduce our wonderful panel, uh, starting at the top right, Marie.

Oh, hi everyone, I'm Marie Driscoll. It's great to be here with everyone. Um, just a brief introduction, I I teach fashion at Parsons. I'm one of Rethink Retail's top experts and a voice for the NRF Retail. Really excited about that. And I recently became a principal consultant. Sorry about that. Principal consultant at Rethink Advisory, Rethink Retail Advisory.

Great. Casey, if you can also answer, but without a phone, that'll be more useful.

No worries. Hi, I'm Casey Rosette. Multifaceted marketing leader, and I'm passionate about consumer connection and fueling sustainable brand growth. I've had the opportunity to work with iconic global lifestyle brands like Vans, The North Face, Timberland, Dickies, Wrangler, Lee, New Balance, and Jockey. And I'm excited to join the discussion with you all today.

That's amazing. Marissa.

Hi, my name is Marissa Byrne, and I have been in the fashion and footwear apparel space for 19 years now, which seems like it was only yesterday when I started. So aging myself, but I'm currently the brand president for Journey at K&S International, and I've been fortunate enough to work with Claris and Deckers, with UGG, and various other companies in my in my career. So I'm a big, big on brand building.

Well, our first big question just to start the conversation, my hope is we have a lot of free-flowing conversation. I'm going to point out Casey, you've said that good product isn't good, isn't enough anymore. You've said a good product isn't enough anymore. So what makes a retail space truly memorable today?

So product being the tangible offer to consumers has to be great. That's table stakes. Of course, for any good brand, but consumer connection is really driven by a shared purpose and relevance. Storytelling, first and foremost, is what enables your brand to become part of your consumer's life and community, far beyond a singular product or a seasonal fashion drop. At Vans, when we reimagined our Fifth Avenue flagship store, we focused not just on product presentation, but on every detail. Every space, every touchpoint, and our goal was to reflect the brand's ethos and invite a moment of connection, not just with Vans as a product or a shoe, but with its culture and community. We created something called the Community Hub, which was a manifestation of that intent, a space that makes skateboarding more accessible, staffed by local skaters who live and breathe the community that they serve. And the result was an experience that feels real, memorable, and rooted in something deeper than commerce. In digital environments outside of the store, recommend leaning into an immersive experience by extending your physical touchpoints, prioritizing customer service and experience, and focusing on what you can provide that goes beyond the commercial exchange. And will keep your consumers engaged with your brand in digital spaces. Things like unique content, access, and community building.

Marissa, what are your thoughts on that? I want to hear.

I really, I completely agree. I think right now retail is becoming experiential. It's about having the experience and we're seeing it at the really high levels of, you see Louis Vuitton, and you see all these more of these luxury houses, they're building cafes, they're building hotels, they're building it so that the brand becomes an entire lifestyle experience. And to piggyback on Vans, I mean, I remember you create— Vans created this community within the skater. They had the Warped Tour. Like, there were so many things that went into building the brand so that you're not necessarily just looking at what that product makes you feel, but how that brand actually makes you feel and how do you become a part of that. So I think it's, it's really just kind of leveled up. I always think of going to the flagship Nike store in New York City, where you have the first floor is like either a basketball court or something where you're testing basketball shoes. The second floor is, you know, centered around the athletic wear and the yoga and you see all these different ways. And as you're going through, you're on their app that's telling you whatever specials you're having. Like, the entire experience is interactive. And you get to the top floor and you can customize your own shoes. So the whole experience, you can spend hours there. And I think that's really like you hit the nail on the head with immersive. I think that's what it's really become. And I think the challenging part is then how do you move that into the digital space? Because the digital space is becoming your dressing room, is becoming your area of contact. So I I think that's being able to move that physical experience in-store into that digital and have it personalized is really kind of where the next steps of really being immersed in a brand.

I love it. Oh, Marie, what were you going to say?

So, you know, to think— I agree with what you've all said naturally. Digitally, the digital experience for most brands is basically flat. It's a product catalog with product explanations, and then you have surface, you have customer service elements, perhaps payment elements, obviously sales, but it needs, it can be an opportunity for storytelling and for making movies and engaging the consumer. And we know that most consumers start online and then go to the store. And so, and And then they may buy in the store, they may buy online. Like the consumer journey moves all over the place. And it's not, you can be in the store and buy on your phone if you like, because you don't want to wait online. But so good products, they are table stakes. Marketing is important, but marketing shouldn't be about really the efficacy of the product. That's what CPG is. That's not what you want to do in fashion and luxury. You want to do something that really engages a consumer, brings them into the store, excuse me, where the store becomes really a cathedral to the brand. It's where you have taste. You can engage all 5 senses: taste, smell, touch, sight, auditory. You know, you go into a Louis Vuitton store and there's music that's relevant, different music than they play in Tiffany's, different than what they play in Nike. Oftentimes the hospitality components are different. The store is truly where you get to experience the brand. And this has to extend to the customer, to the sales associate, to the people you interact with in the brand, in the store. And you really, you have a good experience of a brand in a store, you buy the product and it becomes like a reflect, it anchors your brand experience. And you refer back to, and the product then has like meaning that goes beyond the pure product. It's part of a lifestyle.

Question I'm seeing also our audience, what's been the favorite store experience as a consumer? But I'm gonna vary it a little bit because it is after all, we're like here with this retail coming at a different angle. What I've said, um, at times, that retail now is evolving where it used to be retail as being experiential. And I feel like it's experience leading retail, that retailers need to become really experience-focused, the retail being secondary. I'm fortunate on a few boards and I advise companies. And Millie's question, what's been your favorite store experience as a consumer? Like who wants to take it? I mean, do you think retail, you know, this is Retail Rebels. We have to rebel a little bit, you know?

So for me, like I truly love shopping ever since I was a little girl. I love shopping. I play, I pretended like my bedroom was a store. And usually my last experience is one of my favorite experiences, right? I live in Manhattan. There's lots of great stores to experience. But I travel around the world and I love the experiences there. The experience, like, I love discovering new products. So that means a department store is great for me. It's not necessarily a brand experience. It's where I discover new brands. So Printemps in New York here is a great experience. But it's such an unusual store that I wouldn't expect that to be replicated elsewhere. From the level of hospitality to, really the accoutrements to the, like, to the design of the store. There's a, there's a landmark shoe— have you been in it, Marissa?

There's a landmark Paris, not the New York one yet. It's on my list, but I was in Paris a lot.

Yeah, so the one in New York has a landmark shoe department that has like 40-foot ceilings with like all these mosaics that are inspired by the Trinity Church across the street. It is just unbelievable. But, and there's quiet technology in the store. It's not about technology, but you discover different products from very high-end expensive products to, you know, like to an exclusive In America line of dermatological cosmetics, right? But it's a place for discovery and just to immerse yourself. One of the things that differentiates it is they have 5 different venues for food or for snacks, and that means you have the opportunity to sit down and enjoy and just look at the surroundings. But the furniture is beautiful, the walls are beautiful, the bathrooms are beautiful. But I could go on.

I love it. I want to pull Casey, come on back in on this. Part of the wider VF umbrella. And we're talking about experiential and community.

Yeah, I'm happy to field the question. I'll take a slightly different approach to the answer first, which is when I think about experiential, I go like outside of the industry or even, you know, from an art design kind of cultural inspiration standpoint, Meow Wolf to me does an amazing job of pulling you in immediately. Now it's not overtly commercial. They have, you know, shoppable components, but there's one in Denver, there's one in Santa Fe. I think they have one in Vegas now.

Yeah.

Some of our team went there just to get pure inspiration on what grabs you and what makes it feel like a tangible experience. It's quite immersive with the staff and how they think about, you know, thematic elements. But just wanted to put that out as, as food for thought. The quick answer on, you know, extension of the community hub or the immersive experience with another VF brand: Altra, which is a running shoe company. They make great footwear. They've done that in a similar way with the running community. So whether it's in their own stores, which they have a few, or in Run Specialty, really forging that community, getting run clubs set up, creating social communities that bring those people together.

I love it. I see you nodding, Marissa. Marissa.

Marissa.

I'm going to keep on emphasizing it till I get it perfect. But I see you nodding. What thoughts came to you from from this whole experience.

I'm actually going in a totally different direction.

We're rebels.

Having— I know, because that's kind of— I'm like, okay, I'm not gonna go with footwear. I'm not gonna go, because that's where I spend, I would say, 50% of my time is obviously comp shopping and, and going to those stores. But I will say that I have had the best experience with Avocado Mattress. So it is— I know, I know, but there are so many. If you think about the space. Like, that used to be a space where it was very traditional. It was these huge, um, I don't know why that's happening. I think I talk with my hands too much. Um, right, that there was— it became this huge space, right, where all of a sudden you could get these mattresses delivered. They made it so easy. What I like about Avocado, and the reason I'm bringing this up, is because it's completely turned me into a brand, um, warrior. Like, I am now like in, and it was like from the minute I stepped in the store, from the service that I got, from the ambiance of the store, of how relaxing it was. And then they had products that just like, it didn't make sense not to purchase along the sales. And I could, I spent time in there. I was laying on all the beds. I had my kids were being so annoying, but the staff was great. And it was just this, this whole experience on top of the follow-up that then continued to happen. Like they, they would follow up with me. I was hearing from my sales associate. He was texting me about something that came in that I might be interested in, and guess what? I ended up buying it. So I, I feel like now I've become this, like, I wouldn't go anywhere else. Like, I am entrenched in, in, in this brand's world, and it, and it's great product. So I agree, like, it always starts with the product. You have to have the great product, but the entire customer experience from start to finish, and kind of what Marie was saying, it was the, um, the— I want to say the vibe, the feel that the brand really gives you, it, it completely got— it captured me. And, um, so I would say from that, and then going— and it's a very— it's a digital, everything else I'm pretty much ordering online. But it was from that first moment, and I think the way that I kind of interpret that with, you know, our space with being in fashion is I always say it's the moment you get that box. Box, you know, that you unwrap, or your package. It's like it starts with that first experience, um, and then it's that travel on that, or that continuous follow-up that you receive from that store. And I think that's a really big important component to building that community, but also feeling like you are part of that brand.

It shows how important like physical stores are, but then follow-up and touch points. And right, it doesn't— it's not one thing, it's like many little things build together.

Yeah.

From a digital standpoint, I just have to quickly add, I'm also passionate about that brand, Marisa, but I've never— I've only been online, but I have one and I've converted a lot of my family to it. But they sent even a book along with the order. I don't know if that happened for you. So my children have a book about the environment and like it was a complete detachment from the brand other than a watermark.

But it's educational because it brings you in and you realize like why this is so important. And it just, it makes you, it's like that next step of follow-through on the brand's part where they don't have to do that. Like, I agree. It's just, it's those extra little things.

It's funny you guys went into this because the topic, of course, designing for connection, not just conversion. We went into the idea of experiential. But besides the experience, Casey, you're, uh, online. How do you connect with a customer and create that connection when there's no physicality there? Casey, we'll start it. Go for it.

Yeah, so I think you have to really toe the line behind what is effective marketing and purely data-driven and numbers-driven and what is a a great consumer experience. I actually just saw some ad this morning talking about, you know, plugin to drive higher conversion and an automated bot that would send DMs to anybody that had interacted with your brand or similar brands on Instagram as an example, and effectively would then bombard them with DMs, auto-opt people in on your email list, and could increase conversion. But is that the right conversion approach. And I think you have to, to really consider how you're coming across to the brand. There's a huge opportunity, especially during peak periods like back to school and holiday, where you can be annoying or you can overdo it. And I think increasingly, especially millennials and Gen Z, they're willing to walk away from brands purely on that first experience or something that's off-putting. So that's a bit of the reverse answer, but I do think you have to be careful on not just your tone and how your brand shows up, but really the tactics and the actions that you're taking.

Well, those tactics are— those people look at brands in a very personal way. They have relationships with brands. And when you use those tactics, you're manipulating people and people get it. And that's why they walk away.

Marissa, I was just gonna say, I think that's where the, the key component of authenticity really needs to play a really important factor of what's your why. So if, if you really, you know, have that vision and you have that set up from— and, and that's always kind of your, your goal of where you're moving towards. Like, I agree, Casey, like that bombardment and that over, like, that is a turnoff. Like, we're all so used to being sold to. It's more about, like, it's not always the, you know, it's not the product we want to always necessarily buy into. It's also what, what they're standing for. Why does it make it different? I mean, there's so much out there. So I think it's really making sure that you have that authenticity. Um, and that's what makes, I think, the brands that I continuously continue to open up emails, or it's because they're doing something interesting and I don't feel I'm constantly being sold to. It's more that I'm actually interested, um, because I— it falls in line with my values as a consumer, you know.

Authenticity in the day of— authenticity in the age of AI.

And exactly, how does one do that?

How do you connect with the audience, be authentic with the age of AI, which is not necessarily authentic at times, even though the AI is kind of trying to convince us to customize every email and read the data birth certificate of every single person.

Isn't that why physical stores are more important? Because authenticity really occurs in the physical store, right? It's the— that's where you have the opportunity to have everyone on board across the org, you know, across anyone who has an interaction with the consumer, right? Like the sales associate is the brand basically, right? That's our expression of the brand. But for me, like the authenticity is, it's brand storytelling consistent over all the touchpoints and recognizing that sometimes you just wanna hear the story. You wanna be kept abreast of what's going on. You don't wanna be sold. Be sold to. You both mentioned education, I think. Learning, like we live in the information age. Everybody wants to learn. And we like to learn more about the brands that we love. So, you know, one thing about being authentic in a store is that you may actually, a very, a brand advocate shopper could know more about a brand than the sales associate. So the sales associate has to, express other aspects of the brand like hospitality and friendliness and the service components, right?

Yeah, no, I agree. And I think that, you know, if you're in a brand that has the benefit of brick-and-mortar presence, that should be your testing ground. Like the short answer is, you know, how do you build authenticity and breakthrough is you have to know your consumer and both your consumer that you currently have because you don't want to abandon them, but also who do you want to grow with? Like, who is the future consumer for your brand? And it's getting to know them in the store space when they're there and then also where they live, like where do they actually spend their time and really taking advantage of that. I think the other piece back to the comment earlier is looking at, you know, some of the data and measurement opportunities that can help you do that too. So store mapping, looking at dwell time, what are you introducing from an experiential standpoint in store that's actually making consumers stop and pause? Is it a product wall or is it a community hub? I mean, there's very clear, unbiased ways to measure that. And I think that coupled with, you know, deep conversation, regular conversation, pulling in your store team and staff to the people that are potentially in a corporate office or corporate role that are guiding strategy, you really have to bring them in close.

I mentioned talk to the store, and I noticed especially this past NRF, I think I walked through or down an aisle that was entirely AI, every single one. And one of my, uh, past career moments was when I was CMO of AdoramaPix at one point. I sat in the lobby with my laptop and I would talk to every single person who walked in. I didn't care. And I feel like we're, we need to rebalance maybe. I feel like we're going, oh my good. And mind you, I love AI. I'm a very big advocate. I use it 20 times a day, but sometimes you just still have to sit in that store. And sometimes you still have to talk to the customer and call them.

Right.

How you guys feel we find that balance with technology and find that balance with data, which can, certainly help assist. But at times, you're almost forgetting there's actually just a customer on the other end who might be angry or happy or pissed off at that moment. Who wants to take it first? Oh, I see.

Well, I was just thinking when you were saying that, it just reminds me because you're right. We are inundated now. We have the opportunity to have so much data. And sometimes you can kind of get analysis by paralysis, you know, where you just are almost getting too much information. And I always I mean, I started off on the shoe floor and I will say to this day, that was the most I ever knew about what the consumer wanted because you just hear them, you're fitting, you're seeing, they're talking to you, you know exactly. It was almost like I wanted to crawl through to these brands and be like, "If you would just do this, this would make a huge difference because this is what I'm hearing." Because it's really like boots on the ground. And so I think I think to what we were kind of saying and to kind of pull this back to, you know, the AI conversation and technology and having all this data, the thing that's really working, I would say, online in this kind of new age that we're entering is why UGC is becoming so important because you're actually having the customer, the customer is actually, you know, it's one of your brand ambassadors. That's naturally really liking this product that's in it has more of this unpolished feel to it. I think though some brands obviously like the more polished, it does well, but then you look at like what some of the even higher-end brands are doing where it's quirky and it's offbeat and it's just to like get this emotion from you and you don't even necessarily always see the product. It's more about telling that story. And I think within all, with all this digital and how we, I think it's good to pull the data, but to your point, I think it's it's good to pull back and remember that there's a real person. And I think that's why people want to see other people that maybe not— maybe aren't necessarily a paid model, definitely not an AI. I mean, we saw that kind of backlash that happened with, um, the recent— when, uh, Vogue put in an ad with an AI model, and you saw that immediately. And I think it's because people don't— we don't really want to see the polished and the perfect. That's not what we're living in right now. So I think having that kind of connection through seeing more of that, that a consumer talking to you about something, that's what makes that so powerful. And I think that, and for us, like UGC has been a huge, it's more effective. It's same with like digital reviews is where the reviews can actually become more of a, it's more of a dialogue than a monologue.

If you think about the success that Zappos had, they, they own no physical stores, all, all digital, but you could call in and they would stay on the phone with you as long as you needed, you know, and they had many things that made, that made them successful. But, but it was really the personal relationship. And I think that like We live in a world where you can download millions of apps at a time, right? Like an app can become incredibly successful because everybody's downloading it. But relationships are built one person at a time and they're slow. It just takes longer.

Oh, Casey, I heard Zappos mentioned and I think Vans might give you some insight into that kind of concept. What do you think?

Yeah, I mean, I had Yeah, two thoughts to kind of offer. One, you know, so important to get the product on your store team, but also their family and friends, you know, their ability to advocate, to talk to you about a new product that's launched or their favorite that's maybe a, you know, never out of stock offer. It comes through personal experience. So, you know, to your point, Marisa, the authenticity, the less polished version. Yes, you're going to have marketing to support it in store. There's media running for a new launch, but That one-to-one conversation, somebody showing you the, you know, shoe in that case on their foot and explaining why they love it, like that tends to break through and I think can be really highly effective and isn't something that everyone's doing shockingly enough. The other take I think is interesting and I have two young kids, so I'm, you know, hyper-conscious of this, but the aversion or concern around social media, especially with Gen Alpha, when we talk about AI and, you know, even the Vogue reference that was made, I think authenticity is, you know, incredibly important, but I think there's also a bit of aversion. Oh, can you hear me? It looks like I froze.

Okay.

I think there's concern from parents who are holding a lot of the discretionary dollars and spending for that generation where, there could be backlash if you go hard during back to school or holiday and you take that approach as a youth brand. There could be parents that pull back. There's enough pressure and stress that I think is talked about and known, especially with that generation, that I do think it's a bit of a watch out.

You know, I'm going to jump right now to Marissa. User-generated content. Casey just mentioned social media. And I was just at this conference with Mill Alliance. And one of the discussions we were having is, is that another audience we're targeting? You're targeting the customer. But are you now targeting the social media user-generated conversation?

I definitely think social media is a key component. To any company. And if, if, you know, you— I think that's where I will say brands can really actually tell their story in a way that can show behind the scenes. It can show, you know, you— my favorite accounts to follow are the ones that show the craftsmanship behind brands. We've seen like the hugest increase in engagement when we actually show the real people working behind the brand. When we show more, it less, or we're showing memes that— memes, memes. My son makes so much fun of me because I can never say that correctly. When we're showing more of, you know, kind of laughing at not taking things so seriously because it is a place like where you're just getting kind of people who are doomscrolling, right? And just kind of going through. So what makes them actually stop? And the social media aspect is a really good place to really engage and have a lot more of those dialogues. And that's it. I think that's an important place where you have your social media team that's actually responding and, and being, you know, is being a real person as opposed to just a bot, because that's the engagement of what works in social media. It is that truthful kind of interaction. And so I think it's actually a really big opportunity for brands to really connect with their consumer. And I mean, there's so many different avenues you can take with social. You can also do polls of showing different designs of what, you know, having them have more interaction so that they feel like they're a part of your brand and that they kind of have a say. And that's where kind of UGC will come in. It's like we did a whole brand ambassador program that we just launched, and it's really about getting, you know, we get to send shoes to people and they can actually create content and then we'll feature that content. So they're now a part of our brand experience. And, um, you know, and that's why we have so many content creators now. And I think with content, I do feel that the micro-influencing is becoming more important than getting that huge influencer that has millions of followers. It's what we're seeing is more success with actually seeding a lot of micro-influencers that are kind of talking about the brand and seeing it. And again, it goes back to that. It's more authentic. It's not polished. They're, you know, shooting a video. They're showing you how to style things. And I think that's the biggest thing is, is consumers sometimes don't know, like, okay, what are my end uses with this? You know, what can I do with this? And showing all of that different use of like how they can have that product built into their wardrobe, into their lifestyle, and have it be very versatile, that is where I think social media gives us so many, so much opportunity. And now we've got live shopping. And I mean, it kind of gets a little out of control. So I think you've got to pick your lane and really figure out what your consumer responds to for that engagement. It's really that true interaction.

And really, like, even if the word is overused, the micro-influencer is authentic. Yeah. They're authentically themselves and they have a relationship with the brand. And that's what anyone listening to them sees, right?

And I like this question we got from email which goes along with this. Um, in case you— now that your camera's back, I'm gonna put the pressure on.

Yeah, sorry about that.

No worries, I'm not judging you, it's okay. Um, co-creation, content, product itself— we're kind of relying on these influencers in a way. We want to be authentic, but we don't want to lose control, and there's a little bit of a push-pull on that. How do you keep authenticity and control? What are you thinking?

Yeah, I mean, I, I think what is true for the right match of influencers and your program there is also true for community managers and even your store team. They need to be a good fit for the brand, and there is, you know, briefing and instruction obviously that goes along with that, but But the same as building any good team, you need to have done the vetting up front that you feel like you have the right partners. And then you need to give some level of creative control. Now, designing product, totally different ballpark that obviously has a lot more parameters around it. But I think the most effective creators that I partnered with in the past and seen out in the market are able to bring their kind of essence to the table. But done in a way that is brand safe and brand effective. But you can't control it completely because you water it down and people see through that. It doesn't resonate with their audience who ultimately is who you're trying to reach.

Wall Street, I covered the F Corp. And Vans then, I remember having coupons to create your own sneakers. Yes. So it was co-creation like 15 years ago.

Yeah, we were early. Um, yeah, that, and there's still a lot of opportunity. Um, there's a big program where you can go online and create customs. You can put a photo on shoes, you can pretty much do anything you want. And so that level, the DIY mentality is still very part of the brand. Um, and then when you think about, you know, certainly collaborations and, you know, everything up to OTW, which is the pinnacle expression of the brand, that can be more, you know, curated and selected, but there's definitely a one-to-one consumer opportunity too.

You know, we're looking at, uh, bringing it back. I have to— can't be too much of a retail rebel— designing for connection, not just convert conversion. It feels like it's a balance. It's a balancing act we have from this conversation. The balancing act is experiential with the data, the conversion. You want to have your social media people going nuts. How do you— when do you find that? Like, I feel like you don't— it's not easy to find that balance. It's a— how do you know when you've achieved it? How do you— because I feel like once you— sometimes we go into UGC UC, and then everyone's like, all about UC, we're all about AI, we're all about this. And from an organizational perspective, you don't want to be all in on experiential, you know, beyond this. And it's just like with life balance. How do you tell an organization and guide an organization towards balance? Who wants to take that one? Or is that too much of a question?

It's such a heavy question.

How do you live your life? Because it's what you said, Dominique. It's like everything is balanced, right? And so you have to have a resilient, responsive organization that is opportunistic when it's time to be opportunistic and can take advantage of incredible marketing moments. Like, I loved— I don't know if any of you caught this, but during the big media blitz about the Jeff Bezos wedding in Venice, JCPenney's put out an ad and said, "You too can have a wedding in Venice, California for $10,000." And it's like, isn't that genius, right? So that was responsive and quick and resilient. But it's like, you have to, life is a river. It's a moving picture. It's not a static photo. And so your strategy has to be that, which means that you have to enable people in every venue, in every aspect of your business to be responsive.

Yeah, I think it's just building on that comes back again to consumer and customer. So, you know, how do you gauge that you've hit the right balance? I think having active and recurring dialogue with your community consumers and your wholesale customers to understand, you know, perspective and feedback on your brand relative to competitors. And then looking at the data of new returning consumers, what is that telling you? I mean, I think there's more qualitative probably than quantitative ways to evaluate it. But to Marie's point, you know, there is going to be an ebb and flow. It's going to evolve over time. But I think, again, coming back to who's actually buying the product is usually the right starting point.

No, I think I'm looking at the clock. We have the last 3 minutes. So we'll each, I'm gonna give you all 20 seconds to respond to what have you learned from this conversation? Who wants to hit it first? What have you learned? Marissa.

I think that, I think the key word that we, you know, are ending on is finding that balance, finding that balance between understanding the data and just really having a dialogue, not a monologue with your consumer. But to me, most importantly is really knowing your why. Why are you doing this? What's the overarching reason that you want to— that you're in this space and you're taking up white space? What's your why? So I think that kind of entails everything that we've kind of wrapped up. And, and to be really strong on that vision and not waver from it, because that sometimes gets in the way when you're looking at— oops, sorry. Okay, I know, it's gonna be terrible.

20 seconds.

Okay, so authentic connections that really, at the end of the day, you're the, the consumers, your customers, your clients are individual people and you have to respond to them, know them, and meet them where they are. And if you do, you know, surprise and delight them, they will become brand, they will become clients, they will become brand advocates, they'll be loyal, and they'll create customer lifetime value. And it's by meeting them where they are, not thinking about the transaction. Not thinking about your sales goals for the day.

Casey, you're second to last.

So just reinforcing, I think getting close to your consumer, observing and engaging them in your stores, on and offline communities, where they live and interact in social, that's the heartbeat that will tell you what you need to know.

I love it. And I'm going to wrap up by saying it was— first of all, I learned today that I was right about balance, so I appreciate that of reinforcement from Marie and made me feel good. I want to thank everyone for coming on this wonderful panel. And October, if you have not registered for the big event in New York, this is your time. I'm so eager about the event. And here is your chance to see Retail Rebels this October in New York. Thank you, everybody. Thank you from this whole PY Apparel. Thank you, PY Apparel, for having us. And thank you to our wonderful speakers. This has been a wonderful time.

Thank you. Lots of fun.

Thank you.

Thank you all. Enjoyed it.