Protecting the Creative Environment During Periods of Technological Growth | Fashion Made S4E8

We used to think that AI is going to make us redundant. I think we'll be redundant if we don't use it. And I do think in this idea of like compressed time pressure, that AI can relieve some of the mundane work that we have to do as creatives in general.

Okay, so Rana Sidamed, nice to have you on Fashion Made. Thank you. We've got a huge audience here.

Yeah, I love the audience and more coming in, standing around.

Got two more.

Yeah.

Hi everyone. So yeah, lovely to meet you. You're the creative director, creative and marketing director of Avery Dennison.

Correct.

For your sins. So yeah, I just, I think we wanted to talk about creative. So you and I, when we spoke before, we're speaking about what creativity means and obviously we've got an event here that's focused on fashion creativity. And you are obviously selling into the fashion community, selling into the fashion brands, but also responsible for your internal creatives. And so I think it would be interesting for us just to talk a little bit about, um, at the moment with AI pushing creative teams to work faster, to automate workflows. Um, I thought it would be interesting for us to speak about how we balance that creative energy. Yeah. So how do you get your creative guys thinking and coming up with new and innovative ideas while still serving the master, which is, you know, shorter timelines, more, more cost-effective product development. Basically, how do you balance business with creativity? And I'd love to kind of get your, your thoughts.

Yeah, no, I think Stephen, it's a very interesting question. And I, I wanna say though that I come from a place where I used to be a creative myself, right? So, you know, I started my career a long time ago and I was a designer in the apparel industry. I was a graphic designer in the apparel industry. And I do recall having to come up with ideas in a very constrained, in a small, you know, time period. However, that time period since many moons ago when I used to be a designer has even shrunk more. So I really think about this kind of empathetic approach as I think about our team and at Avery Dennison, I mean, I do have a team of around 70 people that are globally dispersed that are both creatives as well as marketing creatives. And so, you know, You know, it's a nice mixed bag of just creative people that hold different functions. So I do think that it's very important to think about the creative process and protect the team's time in a way that we get really amazing ideas because I believe that creativity really comes when you have, when you create that space for that open mind time. And it's hard to ensure that you have that time when you, where it's all about the next quarter, the timeline. We also do a lot of work work for our clients, which are some of the brands that are here, I'm sure, right? So they have deadlines. So how do you, in this kind of very short period of time, how do you ensure that we do get the best creative ideas out of people in a very short period of time? This is something that we're all struggling with, I think. And yeah, maybe some of the tools here can help.

I hope so. Yeah, I hope so. And I mean, in terms of that creative process, like when you talk about building in time again, now because you are, you are overseeing a team of 70 people, so you have to wear two hats. You're a corporate director and you need to hit targets and Avery Dennison need to win, win, win. But you also wanna make sure your creative team are actually have time to think. And how do you, when you've got a big team of people, allow for, like the way I think is different to the way you think. Some people need space, some people need, I don't know, like everyone needs something different to find that creative flow.

Yeah.

So how do you do that when you've got you've got a huge team of people that you need to manage.

And I'll say not even only my team because I mean, at Avery Dennison, since we are global, we do have, I mean, there's teams everywhere, right? It's not even beyond the creative team and the marketing team. I think as an organization, we've done a pretty good job to understand, like we block certain time periods, like no meeting Fridays, or in Asia in the evening, you know, there's no meeting time. I think that, you know, kind of framework has helped a little bit. But back to your question as the kind of the individuality of creativity and sometimes, you know, I guess some of the best ideas don't come when you're staring at a computer screen or even when you're looking at a whiteboard. A lot of people think, oh, whiteboard sessions, very creative. But actually I think creativity comes when you walk away from the whiteboard, right? And you're, and so I think flexibility is really important as well. And really understanding there's, I think, Besides empathy, there is an element of trust that you have to have with your team where they understand what the project is, but it's not this forced, you know, you can only do it from 9 to 5. Because like you said, I mean, I think we were talking earlier, some of your best ideas come when you're at the pub, right?

When I'm drunk, yeah.

But, you know, I think it's, or, you know, it's just, you know, I think it's not when you're staring at a computer, you need that, You need to build in flexibility, and I think it comes with trust.

Yeah, yeah, I would agree with that. I would agree with that. And in terms of, obviously everybody here is gonna be looking at AI, AI, AI, AI, and I think most people understand that it's not a silver bullet and that it's something you implement to use as workflow management. But how do you see with the creative process, how do you see AI helping and how do you see it becoming an issue where possibly a lot of the people in this event might not have jobs in 10 years?

Well, I tend to love new technology and I do believe that it's really important to embrace. I think it's just another tool. I think we used to think that AI is gonna make us redundant. I think we'll be redundant if we don't use it. And I do think in this idea of like compressed time pressure, that AI can relieve some of the mundane work that we have to do as creatives in general. And so I do think if you kind of just think of it as another tool, I think it's a very interesting tool to use. And I like the idea of, especially right now as we think about who's feeding the models and so forth, that I think we need a diverse perspective. And I think we do need creatives to feed the model as well. Because otherwise, you know, it's gonna be very engineering or, you know, it's gonna come with this kind of very, engineering focus or, you know, so I think that there is a beautiful place for using this new technology and still, and I also don't think AI is gonna, I mean, it can't replace intuition, it can't replace taste. So as, and I think we've all worked with clients, right? And the beauty is sometimes they just don't know what they want, they have to see it, right? So it's not like the client is not gonna take over the prompts and be, because I think a lot of times a prompt, that they don't know what they want. They want faster horses.

Yeah.

Right. So when you, one, as you think about innovation, it's gonna take, I believe, still a human behind the idea. And a human that really can tap into this creative universe, right? That can come up with this new innovation. So I'm not scared of AI.

No.

I think we can use it. We can all, there's a space for it.

Yeah. And I think that really this industry, the fashion world is at its core is an art. It's an art world. It's not, There are other sectors that perhaps are adopting AI in the creative process faster, although we do have some sponsors here that are doing stuff that accelerating while still retaining the artistic touch and feel. So that visceral feel of drawing or painting or touching or cutting or making. So I find it very exciting. I think that AI, from my perspective, can be useful when it comes to understanding exactly who Rana is. And so the scanning and the skin tones and the— so I think it can be a very useful tool when it comes to getting us a deeper understanding of ourselves, but we still will want on the creative side to have that magic of that human touch in terms of what we buy and what we wear and what we feel.

Yeah, I forget who said this, that the garbage is gonna take itself out, right? So in a way, yes, you're gonna understand what still had a human touch to it, right? But it could be augmented by AI. But I agree with you. I mean, even, you know, as we think about sustainability and, right, the fact that we don't wanna overproduce, and I think all the tech tools in here, right, has really helped to reduce the amount of samples that we're creating. And, you know, so I do think that it has also a positive impact on the world as well, right? So I think we can't forget about that. But I forgot what your question was.

I'm not sure there was a question. Okay. One thing that a few people have said to me, and I think we might have touched on it, is with creative teams in fashion brands, in retail brands, in software brands, in service brands, Sometimes is, do you think we run the risk of creative teams becoming almost like an outsourced agency? Like not really part of the, the overall structure of the business, but like these artists that are, are high maintenance and, you know, and an agency that, that need to be used.

Yeah, I think, you know, this is, I, I, well, I can only speak from my team now and I think that we've come a long way a, as a team where before I think we were seen as, and I'm only, I guess, only talking about the creative department now, not the marketing. We were just seen as kind of the creative department and that's where creative happens. And I think as an organization, we've done a really great job to make sure that creativity is infused in all of the different businesses, right? So, or different parts of the business. So it's not, it doesn't only live in the creative team. I mean, if you think about innovation and sustainability was the same way we used to have innovation team, and that's where innovation lives, or sustainability, that's where. And then I think we've reached this next level where we understand everybody has, you know, a piece of this in their role, whether it's innovation or sustainability or creativity. And I do think that the creative team actually is now not only a creative team, but a great thought partner to a lot of parts of the business. And I, you know, I definitely am a champion of that. The creativity has to live everywhere because, you know, it's, it's very important. I mean, I think that if we think about, and I think we talked about this, this idea of when we are creating something or we're, we're up against a deadline and if you're operating in this kind of closed mode, email mode, it's really hard to be, to open up your mind and, and really think about what's next for the business. Right. So I think even if you, if you are, you know, in commercial or in engineering or material science or whatever, you need to make sure that you're thinking about and blocking time out to have this kind of open mode of thinking for your part of the business. So I guess what I'm saying is creativity does not live in the creative department.

No, no, I would agree with that. And whether you're selling or you're in merchandise planning. I mean, merchandise planning, I think they have to deal with the creative and, and actually a big part of the role that we are talking about here, which is managing the business with the, with the creative talent. I think a lot, a lot of the time that will sit with the merchandise planning heads within brands and operating. But I think it's, I think you make a good point. And in terms of where you see things going then in terms of like the, creative, as a creative leader, what do you think, knowing the landscape of AI and knowing the landscape of technology as it is today, which will change very much in a month and 2 months and 3 months, where do you see things going over the next, say, 5, 6 years?

Yeah, I think that, I think it would be interesting to, I mean, first of all, walking around the show this morning, there's some really interesting tech already happening now, right? So, but I guess the future, where does creative live within this future of tech? I do think that it's gonna augment us in a more positive way. I think that we're really gonna think about sustainability even more about like the early thinking of design and kind of like that design thinking early in the process. I think that I mean, I do think that it can only be a positive thing. I think that as brands and as companies, we're also thinking about how to slow down in order to move faster, right? So do we really need as much, I forget who I was speaking with yesterday, but this idea of like we're overproducing apparel, right? But is AI gonna really help us with understanding what to produce and when. And so we're very targeted with our approach. I think that's gonna be a very healthy, so I do think that there's gonna be a lot of, I don't think we have all the answers, but I think that we're, the more that we kind of lean into this and we understand that our intention is to, you know, to have this like very empathetic view of our consumers and what they need and obviously of the planet. As well, then I think AI could really be a huge tool there. So.

Agreed. Agreed. We're doing, we're doing, sorry, we're doing a, this is a bit ridiculous 'cause it makes no sense.

You look cool though.

We're, cool, right? Well, we're doing a, an event called Retail Rebels, right? In New York at the end of the year. And it's all about reclaiming the customer because I think a lot of brands, enterprise brands are struggling with a voice, with a tone of voice. And there's a, you know, the Gen Z buyers have a very different mindset and a very different emotive reason to buy something. And one of the things that I, just as you were talking, I was thinking is we don't really engage in that narrative. The creative process isn't really engaged. It might be to say we do this sustainably or this is, you know, but we never really, I don't think, pull the designers into the enterprise brand discussion around the creativity. And I think maybe, that could be an interesting way of grounding the creative teams a bit into the business side of things. I don't know, it was just something I—

Yeah, no, I mean, I guess also what came up for me when you were talking about that is this idea of obviously we all know about digital product passport and how every garment that you, everything that you are gonna wear or buy, right? Needs to have this kind of digital identity. And there's a great way, and I know at Avery Dennison we have, tools for that. @myo is one of them, Digital Product Passport. And the idea is then how do we point the story? We used to always point the story maybe to where the garments were made, but how do you bring that creative process and the creative, the makers of whatever that thing is into that story, I think is really important because I think it's a rich story.

Yeah.

And I think as you, and I do think that the younger generation really cares about like, the whole process and would really benefit from understanding the full story of whatever that thing is. Whether it's also bought, because sometimes when you, you know, as we think about retail, you kind of go in and you could talk maybe to the designer. I mean, I was on a trip recently to Morocco and it was really refreshing that you meet the maker, right? The shoe, the designer of that jacket, and you hear their story, right? But you don't always get that when you're buying online. So how do you create that very rich experience, right? Because it's somebody making something that they care about, right? And that could be one person in a brand or that could be, you know, like in on e-commerce as well.

So it's interesting because that's very much like the purview of the luxury sector. I think for now is that like emotional connection with the brand and the story. And I think even luxury is struggling to maintain that story. But yeah, I think it's, It's interesting. And in terms of what's the most creative product you've seen in fashion this year?

Wow. I think it has something to do with, I was at another event in New York and it was a sustainability event and I think it was, it's all about kind of the idea of the new leather, right? And I think I do love leather, but I, you know, obviously it comes with a price when you're wearing leather. So I think it's kind of all the lab-grown type materials are really interesting to me. And I think, I think that we are just probably at the surface of that. I mean, I think, I forget, there was like the, obviously the mushroom, the shrimp, right? But I love that it's new tech, but using natural materials as well is kind of the, so to me, I think there's something really interesting about that kind of material science and new materials that could come from that.

Yeah. So makes sense. Well, I think we should probably wrap up. You're gonna join us in New York, right?

Yes. Hope so.

No pressure. I'm just doing it live on camera.

I love that you're doing that.

And yeah, thank you.

Thank you so much for the question.

Great to see you.