Seamless Integration of Digital Color Execution | Under Armour, PVH, natific AG | PI Apparel

First of all, I'd like to thank you both for coming and joining us to talk about this colorful topic this morning.

Happy New Year.

Thank you. Happy New Year. One of the first things I'd just like to get your feedback on is during the recent and ongoing pandemic, how do you feel digital color has helped you to manage as we went through those challenges?

You go first. Sure.

Digital color was everything for us. We, at the very beginning in March of 2020 when our office shut down, we actually couldn't access any of our facilities. So we didn't have access to a light box, color standards, mail. So there were packages that sat there for months that unopened until we could get access. And so everything transitioned to what we call digital or virtual, and we did it all online and remotely. With the partnership of obviously our tier 2 suppliers and our global regional teams as well, who also couldn't access their offices. And literally, we were able to, I would say within the first week, get back into the swing of things and lost almost no time throughout that first real crisis period where we really thought the office was only gonna be closed for 2 weeks. Shame on us. Honestly, if we had been working in a more traditional kind of physical form of color management, I don't know what we would have done. I think we would have, we would have been in huge trouble. I did talk to some colleagues at other brands who were having LabDip Summits sent to their home addresses. Some of them actually had light boxes moved into their home. Some people were trying to use, you know, light bulbs that they bought off the internet. Some people were using the windows. I mean, really just trying to find any solution they could. But for us, honestly, it was relatively seamless.

Thank you.

We couldn't have done it otherwise. Very matter-of-factly, it wouldn't have been able to— it wouldn't have been able to work. I think thanks to the strong partnership we had with Natifik and Datacolor prior to the apocalypse, prior to the pandemic, we were able to reorganize our color team by roles by function. So we organized a digital color reviewer, a digital color technician, so paying attention to the data, paying attention to the hardware, uh, a senior director of communication, right? So they could focus on what was being executed digitally, and then somebody else paid attention to the emails and the coordinating and the management of, uh, if you don't have the physicals, where's it, where's it going, what's, uh, what's going on. Thankfully, we didn't have physical submissions sent to our homes all that often, but thanks to the strong partnership with Datacolor, actually, we had spectrophotometers at our, at our home. So if and when physical samples did have to come, we had the equipment to be able to evaluate it digitally, upload it into QCXpress, communicate it into ASAP, and see the information in Color Warehouse. So yes, matter-of-factly, had we not preemptively implemented those color execution digitization processes, the pandemic would have been an absolute nightmare. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you very much. Traditionally, we've used a visual and/or visual/digital process. Ryan, can you speak a bit how you've been able to transition as an organization to having confidence in digital?

I think so. Been saying this for the past as long as I've known you, uh, so for the past over 10, 15 years. Virtualization and visualization, objectivity over subjectivity. So I think there's a, I think there's a sort of a ladder or a step up between— you have your analog process, but there's things that you need to do to be able to properly manage your analog process. You have to be able to see color first and foremost. You have to look at it in the correct conditions. You have to make sure, you know, the, the right angle, everything else like that. So it's there's a bit of a hurdle moving to the next step, which is proper digitalization, digital evaluation processes. So I think education played a really strong component of that, partnering closely with design, partnering closely with our raw materials team, partnering closely with our suppliers, and educating them on the objective digital measurements, the reflectance curves, what those numbers actually mean, the breakout of color families. Okay, yes, I might have a passing Delta E CMC for a khaki, But hey, go to your calibrated ISO and take a look at it and see, you know, in comparison within that medium on screen, is there a color deviation? Yes, it might pass, but look at the reflectance curve being, you know, lighter or darker because it might happen to fall into that color family. So thankfully the pandemic really turned into a, it galvanized the team and now we have a group of technical SMEs, subject matter experts, who are really good at evaluating these objective processes and then that really kind of enforced the confidence that those partnered teams had that weren't exposed to it for so long. Um, it gave them— we're confident. It gave them confidence. We moved through it. Nothing showed up on escalation. Uh, so we just, uh, you know, it all started with— it's the quote, an avalanche starts with a snowflake. Yeah, it just, it snowballed and kept going and going. And now it's not something I think we could ever walk away from.

Okay, very good. Uh, Marielle, as far as color development, as you evolve the process at Under Armour, can you speak a little bit about the importance of, number one, color specifications to your suppliers, and then also color feasibility?

For sure. So one of the challenges that we had run into historically And I've been with Under Armour for 15 years, so when I, and we've only been around since 1996, just to give you guys a little bit of context. So when I first got there, it was kind of like a startup. We were quite small and we were really flying by the seat of our pants, to be fully honest. And we were just, some of our standards were literally just Pantone swatches that people had picked up off the internet. And so we weren't vetting them, and we were running into a lot of issues down the line. So we were running into issues where on some of our materials, those standards couldn't be matched, or they would have terrible color fastness, or they would have really atrocious light fastness, and we would find out and it would be too late in the process where a lot of times things were getting dropped or they're getting changed at the last minute. And so what we over time have developed in partnership with Natific, they offered us what you guys call a Natific Optimized Spectral Curve, an NOSC, which is actually an engineered curve.

Curve.

So we have— we provide them with our inspiration, which is a QTX. They engineer it to make it more constant, so we avoid a lot of metamerism issues, which is like one of the main things that I've noticed, as well as making it more achievable on our main fibers. So we have told— we've partnered with them, shared what our main fiber types are, which for us is mainly synthetics. Um, and so these curves are more achievable on those fiber types and with the help of some of the software and the background knowledge that Nativic has, getting predictions as to how feasible they are. So where are issues? Will this color be achievable on nylon? How achievable is it and what issues will we run into? Is it expected to have low lightfastness? By having that information up front, we've avoided a lot of issues by helping to educate our designers and also to go into the seasonal palette to say, This color can only be used, let's say, on polyester. Everything else it's not achievable on. Here's a replacement that is similar. Usually it's duller, sometimes it's lighter or darker, to say this is achievable, similar hue, but you won't run into those issues because we want to avoid quality issues and we want to avoid unexpected issues. Those are always the fire drills. So for us to have any indication as to predictive understandings of the different colors in the palette, we're able to meet the aesthetics of our concept team, but not have to chase down a million problems and ask product teams to make changes to their styles later, because nobody wants that. They always want— they want the colors on the styles that they designed. And not have to make compromises later because of things like poor lightfastness, poor colorfastness, or just completely off-shade textile trims also. So to go back to your original question, having— doing the work up front has saved us from a lot of headaches down the road.

Okay, okay, right. Thank you very much, Ryan. You touched on, uh, supplier accreditation and training a little bit earlier. Uh, do you have any insight how to let— to, um, how that's impacted the quality of your color on both, both in matching and production?

Yeah, yeah, I, I think I've mentioned it to a couple of people talking here today in various locations, but this is an implementation of Notific, implementation of the color certification program, the color accreditation program, The data just showcases this is the most insane example of Pareto that I've ever seen. I mean, it is straight 80/20. We implement the process, you do 20% of the work and you yield immediately 80% results. For those who have been certified, for those who have been accredited, first-time color approvals within the system, 80% or above. Just right off the bat, matter-of-factly, pushing 85-90% when you get into— if you have to get into, uh, uh, round 2, round 3. So yeah, I mean, it's just— it's been— it's been a phenomenal success. Now the opportunity is the inverse of Pareto, right? Trying to get to— do we even need lab dips? Touching on what Marielle said, uh, in regards to feasibility. If we know what colors are achievable on what materials in partnership with Natific for NOSCs and OSCs, uh, using— using that predictive analytics, partnering with global dye and chemical companies, giving them that information, having our L1s, L2s, our mills and vendors, giving them access to this information, paying attention to the dyes used, dyes and chemicals used. Now we can skip entire initial processes and hopefully streamline everything. So yes, it worked. Okay. Matter of factly.

Now a question for both of you. Everyone's focused on on faster. You know, we want to implement, execute color, different styles, different fabrics, whatever it might be. Can you comment on how leveraging digital throughout your supply chain has impacted your development timelines?

For sure. So when I first started Under Armour and we were more traditional, we were quoting about, I want to say, 60 days was our estimated turnaround for a lab dip on a the average fabric. So things that were maybe more novelty or more technical, things like different films and laminates, might take even longer. Now, if it's something coming from an accredited supplier on a feasible color and it has a solid, we quote 14 days or less. And generally we just say, go ahead and put it on your BOM and it's we will be able to buy it within the buy month. So our buy cycles are in a month. So generally we can do it within the month cycle. For even novelty fabrics, we've significantly cut the amount of time. I think we're closer to 30 days, depending on, again, some of the novelties, things like really technical laminates take longer because of the amount of work that goes into the actual material itself. But, We've cut more than 50% of the time it takes us to do the average color development. And we've also improved our timeline significantly for prints, which had been a really big challenge area for us. Some of them were taking as long as 120 days. We can do almost everything, including the— once we have the artwork, the print fabric development and the execution and color review in 60 days.

Very good. Thank you.

Yeah, very, very similar. Looking at the data here, here this morning prior to the— prior to this meeting, just trying to get a snapshot of it, our FSRRs, final submit review requests, for timing purposes, if you— we look at across all of our brands, it was an insane reduction. I mean, it went down initially from upwards of 30 to 40%. Now I think we're right around 6, 7% if we pay attention to everybody. So Yeah, the certification, accreditation, identifying in our, uh, in our PLM system, marrying the colors to materials that we've identified are actually achievable to those materials. So feeding that education upstream into design, to, to Mariel's point. So when they select colors on material, if they are married, they can have confidence that that color will actually execute on that material. They'll have confidence that they don't need to see a physical sample, they don't need to see a lab dip, So when a supplier does self-approve, they'll know that it will just work. So yeah, it's been fantastic.

Okay, thank you. Ryan, a question for you. Since you guys have fairly complex supply chains across multiple brands, how has your color team been able to gain additional transparency into your supply chain?

I think the, the data in the system right? So now, first and foremost, it was trying to identify, uh, setting up a team to be technical SMEs in those respective areas, right? So we had an individual who paid attention to Tommy, an individual who paid attention to CK, a person who paid attention to, uh, you know, our tug group, our underwear group. And at times, you know, one person was laying back drinking a cup of coffee and somebody else was running around like a chicken with their head cut off. So we said, all right, enough's enough. I mentioned earlier, we, we reorganized the global team by areas of responsibility. So educating the team so they understood and were happy with the software, with the data, with if and when we had to do a visual assessment, but then transitioning them to on-screen visual assessment and then leveraging the information in Natifik, the achievability information, seeing the reflectance curves, being able to see those snapshots of the, the individual colors on screen real quick to get an idea, am I actually looking at a red, a blue, a green? It's just allowed— it's allowed the team to have a level of confidence in the information that has facilitated the usage of that information and the partnership with other teams.

Okay, thank you. Um, Mario, the, um, traditional color process— processes, uh, and everything surrounding color typically can require a lot of administrative time, emails, packing, shipping, those type things. Have you quantified or can you speak a little bit about how going to more of a digital system has helped you there?

It's very hard for me to put like a man-hours behind it, but the way I describe it is when, so when I started, there was one color manager. I became her assistant, and as we grew, I mean exponentially, Eventually, our team grew to 1 color manager and 3 full-time dedicated color reviewers. And we literally, our jobs were to sit in a lightbox all day long, look at submits, occasionally measure them on the spectrometer just to verify our reviews, email comments, and update them in PLM. And that was all we did all day long. And then one day a week, we would manually download an Excel spreadsheet of new lab requests and email them individually to each one of our tier 2 suppliers. Now we have one person in our office who is a color reviewer who handles— spends more time working closely with our product teams and designers on things like aesthetics and novelty developments, and a little bit of time and the occasional thing in the light box for special exceptions. She never sends emails. She never sends emails. She doesn't send comments on my email. We don't have to manually update our PLM system. We don't have to send emails to our regional teams. All of it's handled in system. So there is a level of, there's a level of administration that happens in the system. For example, if something's approved, we do mark it as approved, but however, that information is automatically fed back to PLM, which automatically feeds our bi-ready reports. So we've eliminated a lot of touch points and we've eliminated a lot of very repetitive emails, updating unnecessary spreadsheets, trying to track things down. We've also significantly eliminated a lot of pure, just what I call package waste. So we're not, we used to generate trash cans full of just DHL bags of lab dips and huge stacks of paper. We used to have a filing room that was with like 25 filing cabinets, just chock full of paper. We're down to, I think, one cabinet. With maybe a couple of drawers of stuff in them that are more just like references and educational material. So we've cut down significantly on a lot of the really tedious kind of like time-consuming stuff so we can focus on the higher class of problem.

Okay, Mario, you just touched on this. I'm going to ask Ryan, how do you think your color process can help PVH meet sustainability goals?

Yeah, so very much to, to tear off of what Marielle said, anyone competent in what they do moves to streamline their processes and procedures so they can pay attention to a higher class of problems. So first and foremost, if we hadn't have implemented Natifik, if we hadn't have, you know, pushed our suppliers for certification and accreditation, I wouldn't have been able to answer that question because we would have been paying attention to putting out the dumpster fires right and left. Right now that we've done that, now we have transparency to the dyes being used in what regions we can partner with. And we have the time to partner with the innovation team, with the some global dye and chemical companies where we can reach out and say, okay, what is the, what is the impact, environmental impact of these dyes on these materials? Can I achieve it in a more sustainable way, potentially in a different region using a different process? So I think, again, going back to education, going back to that Pareto 80/20 example, right, Natific has allowed us the opportunity to pay attention to that higher class of problems and partner with those other team members so we can begin tackling them. Tackling it. What have we done specifically? That goes toward the feasibility route, right? Conversations with you in regards to some of the processes that Natific, I think, will be implementing, if not now, very, very soon. Paying attention to the, again, the environmental impact of those dyes that we've identified as achievable on those materials. We're in the beginnings of it, but had we not done this— I sound like a broken record, I want to just make sure everybody understands it— had we not done this, we would never have been able to have the time to pay attention to it in the first place.

Okay. How do you see global legislation concerning what's in product— dyes, chemicals, those type things— how do you see those things impacting your groups in the coming few years?

Me?

Yeah.

Very much so. You know, you have— well, hopefully I get the numbers right— what is it, Prop 65 in California? You have all the new legislation coming out in China here recently that I think everybody's talking about, right? Fastness requirements, effluent requirements. So yes, very, very much so. But I think, again, transparency is the key to happiness and harmony. If we know the dyes that are on the materials, if we understand the processes to be able to execute those colors on those materials. Now we can— now we— the brand now has visibility to proactively pay attention to those things and partner with global dye and chemical companies, partner with the likes of Natific and others to be able to see, okay, can I still achieve this color in a more sustainable way, perhaps in a different region, perhaps locally? How might I— how might I have to pivot my business to be able to do those things? Thanks, man.

Same question for me.

Yeah.

Um, obviously Ryan hit on a lot of it. I think for us, a lot of it is just we've eliminated just a ton of waste, um, by eliminating things like unnecessary extra lab dips. Why are we doing lab dips on colors that we knew were never going to be achievable? Why are we going 5 rounds on a color, on a turquoise on a polyester that probably was never going to match? Eliminating that stuff upfront. Like some of the legislation that came out in China a few years ago around colorfastness, because we had the predictions, we were able to go through and say, these are the colors on the different techs, on the different fibers that you can use in China. And these are the ones that you cannot, because we knew upfront that they would fail. We, it's still really complicated. However, we've streamlined a lot of that decision-making because we can go in knowing these are the colors that we can not use in China on these materials versus what we know upfront will pass. So saving ourselves a lot of headaches and just eliminating just the amount of waste. So things like dyes, like the water usage, I think is significantly cut down. The amount of textile waste that we're generating, papers, transit waste is a big one because all of the stuff that we're, all the stuff that my team's receiving is coming air freight. And right, so think about just the impact of the CO2 emissions coming off of all those air freight shipments from Asia. We've eliminated all— a lot of that significantly. And I think there's definitely more opportunities, like Ryan's alluding to, looking more deeply at what dyes and chemicals are being used. We also have visibility to where everything is coming from within the supply chain as well. So which For example, like a lot of the suppliers that we work with have multiple locations, knowing exactly where they're coming from. Yes, it has the same company name, but they might have a facility in, let's say, Taiwan and Vietnam. I can now identify exactly which one it came from, as well as how close to the color standard did they actually get. Quality issues have also gone down significantly because now we have visibility to when there could be a potential quality issue in the bulk color stage. Which we did not have necessarily visibility to before because we were only receiving first of bulk. Now we're receiving measurements for every subsequent lot, which gives us more of like a shade band view, which previously only the mill and usually the factory had visibility to. So we've been able to eliminate a lot of like mismatched color issues at the quality level, and which means less seconds, less product being sold at like at outlet, less product being discarded, and just the— and just less headaches overall.

Thank you. One question on supplier sustainability. Okay. A lot of factories and manufacturers today are making investments in things like water recycling, solar power, those type things. Uh, do you feel, uh, brands will be making, uh, purchase decisions, uh, based more on supplier sustainability and capabilities in the future?

I definitely do. My team has almost no impact on those decisions because what we really handle is the actual color execution. The sourcing is handled by another group. That we work very closely with. But I do see that those things are starting to get quantified. So looking at the suppliers, do they have water management? Do they have waste management? Do they recapture steam, for example, in their digesters? Solar power is another one. And then also on the human side, we're affiliated with the FLA, the Fair Labor Association. So all of our member factory, all of our factory suppliers also have to adhere to that code of conduct. So are they paying a living wage? Are they having unclaimed overtime? All the different human rights violations that happen in the workplace. So it's absolutely critical. I know that, for example, one of the things that we're working on is integrating a facility, an environmental facility assessment into our PLM system. Which will give our product teams better visibility into how each supplier at the Tier 1 and Tier 2 and even going hopefully to the Tier 3 level at the facility level. So doing things like water reclamation and solar power so that they can make decisions on the fly and do it in the native system without having to go, let's say, to a second spreadsheet or a whole nother system that's dedicated to sustainability, making it an integral part of our everyday workflow. Okay.

Ryan, a question for you.

Can I answer the previous one?

Yes, if you want to.

Yes. Yes.

Okay.

Okay. And this is our last question before opening up things. What do you think color execution will look like in 10 years?

Oh, go. Hopefully, hopefully exactly how I want it to look. Um, I, I think that there's been a dichotomy in the industry that comes from a lack of education. There's been this forever struggle between design and execution, right? Design is, uh, you know, in, in the clouds, wanting to pay attention to those innovative, uh, you know, next-level things, and then they are constantly confronted with what can actually be done depending upon where it can or cannot be done, right? So there, there's this, I want this color. Well, you can't have this color. Well, it's fluorescent and, you know, there's poor fastness, but I want this color on this material. Um, so I think that, you know, touching on a little bit of what Marielle had just said and the services that we have with Natific, if we keep going down this path where we're, where we're allowing visibility to information, we are facilitating communication, we're facilitating visibility to this information, we're educating our partners, we're educating upstream design, we're educating the RM teams, we're educating the suppliers. I see absolutely no reason why a designer can't be sitting on a beach somewhere with his or her iPad scrolling through their PLM system looking at, uh, scanned in, color accurate, material accurate styles, picking what they want, identifying and having visibility to the feasibility information. So hopefully design will be making those elevated decisions, right? Taking into account, oh, the social impact, environmental impact of the colors I'm picking on my materials because we've made it easy for them, uh, at a click of a button. And then it pushes to the supplier who can properly execute that while also facilitating transparency transparency of that information to global dye and chemical companies who could then move into those regions and support where needed. So I really just see a pay no attention to the man behind the curtain kind of aspect of it, right? Like The Wizard of Oz, where it's, uh, it looks like this just omnipotent, awesome, easygoing thing, uh, and really there's just a bunch of us dorks behind the scenes managing a lot of the execution.

Marielle, anything to add?

I would say that's also kind of my like long-term vision is that where we have the predictive analytics and all of the really complicated data and the things that we know as color experts built into like our PLM system so that when a designer is going in, they can't make a mistake. Everything that they do is feasible. Textiles that they've selected for their garment are fit for the end use, the colors that they've selected are fit for the fiber, and they maybe even have, maybe even have advice on how recyclable is it, how biodegradable is it, right? Having all that information basically built into a seamless system where they can do whatever they dream up and always know that it's going to execute flawlessly. I also do think Someone out there in the technology world, please invent an actually color-accurate monitor. I don't believe that it truly exists. Um, I went to CES and the people there had no idea what I was talking about. So please, if any of you work for a monitor produce or television producing company, please get this for us. I will buy so many of them. So yeah, thank you.

Okay, I'd like to thank you both very much for being here with us. And I'd like to see if there are any questions.

Hello. That was amazing and mind-blowing for so many reasons. I'll talk to you about that later. My name's Lisa from Retail Strategy Group. And my question is, have you quantified the speed to market now that you've implemented all these digital tools and new ways of working? Yeah, for us, just cutting down this. So one of the challenges in color management is that we're one of the last things to happen before something can get bought. So the material has to be developed, the trim has to be developed, the fit has to be approved. We're like the last thing to happen. We have gone from being, I don't want to say problem child, but I've gone from having to go in front of the entire supply chain chain division and say, here's how many lab tests we have outstanding and here's why and here's when they're going to come in to— I literally don't get a question about it anymore. We hit our goal for BioReady is 100% every month and we're at like 99.6%, right? So there's always a late add, there's always a pull forward, there's always some little thing that happens. But we've gone from literally— I was getting, you know, I'll call them freaked out emails from people across products saying, where is this, you know, is it going to be ready on time? To— I don't really get those questions anymore, um, because it's a non-issue. Ryan, you have it?

Yeah, uh, 2 to 4 weeks. Yeah, matter of factly. So if we pay attention to— if a— so 2 to 4 weeks down from 16 weeks-ish plus potentially if there's a, if there's a discrepancy or if there's an issue, right? Um, again, think about it. If, if you're partnering with design, they pass the palette to the, to the SMEs, technical SMEs in the color team, analyze in partnership with Natific, analyze that for feasibility, ideally proactively put that information into the PLM system so they don't even need to pay attention to me, and I can be an introvert and dorky and do my own thing. Um, they just see the information in the PLM system, they know and are confident, they select the color on the material, it can just execute. The supplier is certified and/or accredited. They know exactly how they're going to execute that color on that material. They die to objective tolerances and they just deliver. So in those instances where the, you know, the stars aligned and everything just worked right, 2 to 4 weeks.

Thank you. Great conversation and insights into the colour process. My question is around trim management. I think with the use of, you know, the Natifix system and Delta E readings, a lot of the fabric and some of the more common components of material are now covered, but especially in the intimate space where, you know, take a bra, for example, a lot of those components still require a certain level of— you need a colour expert on that. Due to the lack of technology. How do you guys see that space evolving? Are you working on a roadmap to bring technology to solve for that? Would love some thoughts and insights on that.

Yes, matter of factly, Datacolor SpectraVision. What is it with X-Rite? Their TAC device, the Total Appearance Capture device. Yeah. MetaVue also. MetaVue. Yeah, right. So being able to properly virtualize and then visualize those materials on screen and then leveraging the colorimetric information to showcase that color as accurately as possible on that color-calibrated screen. So design doesn't have to ask for a million samples. Then beforehand, doing some preemptive legwork, right? Measure twice, cut once. Have a partnering with these guys, reaching out to Coats as an example, right? Sewing and embroidery threads, receiving their digital data for their global palette. Using the data to compare those two palettes to say, okay, matter-of-factly, design, you don't need to spend a day, two days, however long, sitting with a book in a light box if you're doing it right, trying to pick the correct sewing and embroidery thread, the correct beamist tape, whatever else it would be. We've already identified that information for you, ideally putting it in the system so you can just move forward with it. There will always be exceptions to the rule, right? But again, going back to Pareto, if we've streamlined 80% of what we execute, now we have the bandwidth to pay attention to that higher class of problem.

Yeah, I think the non-contact spectrometers have really come a long way. I think for a long time people didn't think that it was doable. I think that's going to be a big unlock for a lot of components. A big one for us too was actually getting away from having things in actual component structure and having them do it at the slab level. Like, don't send me the button and it's like microscopic. Just send me the slab and then I can measure it and I know that it's accurate no matter what shape, form, you know, debossing you put on it. So that's— that one is big for us, and that's a process change and it's a mindset change because a lot of people are like, but that's not what it looks like. But the designers know that in the end it's going to be what they asked for, and so they're usually happy. I mean, some of like the hook and eyes for bras are always going to be a challenge because they're just so, so tiny. But if I spend 10 minutes a week looking at hook and eyes, I'm spending the rest of my week not looking at hook and eyes, right? So it's— I think the non-contact spectrophotometer is definitely going to be a big, a big one for those like really tiny guys and multicolor items. But sometimes it's just a matter of thinking about it a little differently to say, you know what, some of the slab Send me your stock books, send me your QTX. We actually did that with our thread suppliers. When we meet a new term supplier and they hand us over the stock book, I will ask if do they have QTX values available and we'll just search against those instead of sitting in a light box and flipping through them. So yeah, I think we'll get there. When I just think about just what's happened over the last 15 years, we've made a ton of progress. So I'm hoping that if we can we can continue on this ramp of progress, I think we'll get there.

Everything crossed.

Thank you. Just quick follow-up. Ryan, to your point of you're speaking about getting everyone on that journey and trusting in your partners. Collaboration is important. We work with you, for example, at MAS. Would love your thoughts on specific insights as to some of the common pitfalls in kind scaling this, right? And, you know, how do you really manage the change? How do you take everyone on that journey, especially with tier 2 smaller mills that may have— may not have the equipment, but also the mindset? Would love your thoughts on that.

Good question. Musa?

Good question.

Yeah, partnership and education. Just matter of factly, partnership and education, right? I think I mentioned it to somebody a little bit earlier, and I'm the color guy, so it's insane that I'm even saying this, but Sometimes the color can't be matched. And you know what? That's okay. But I want to know about it. I don't want to find out about it after however many back and forths in emails and, and a lab dip in a process that I'm trying to get rid of in the first place. Ideally, if a color can't be matched, I'll know as early as possible. Okay, the color can't be matched. What is it going to look like? Now I can leverage— now I can leverage our critical match process to to say, all right, what's connected to this? What styles connect to this? Is it a mixed media style where I have to coordinate other components? Now I can pay attention to that lowest common denominator and through visibility of the information pull everything together. Communicating with the mills and vendors, letting them know that it's okay to tell us that you can't match color. I'm not going to freak out, but thank you for telling me. Now I know. Now I can actually do something about it and make sure that there's continuity of whatever that color is on the garment. So hopefully it will still be a high-quality garment and won't look wacky. So just education. Yeah.

Okay. Thank you all very much. Thanks for joining us and enjoy the rest of the show.