Sustainable Manufacturing and Family Values with Nikhil Hirdaramani

Woo! Woo! Woo!

I'm here today with Nikhil Hidaramani, the director of Hidaramani International Exports. Nikhil, hello.

Hi, hi, good afternoon. All well, thank you.

Nikhil, you've been speaking for us at Pyaparole today about stakeholders working collaboratively towards sustainability goals. Supposedly we're the number 2 pollutant industry in the world, which could be argued, but either way, something's got to be done, I guess.

So sustainability has been one of our sort of key values. It's been very much in our DNA as such. We're a family business with very strong values. Our values are sort of create the future, making things better, stronger together, keep it moving, and believe we can. So very, very sort of unique values but have sustainability within them. And my sustainability story, myself, how I've been involved in sustainability, I'm presently the vice chair of the SAC, the Sustainable Apparel Coalition, and I'm also involved in the Social and Labour Convergence project, which is a sort of collaboration between the industry, manufacturers, retailers, NGOs, MSIs, to reduce audit fatigue. So collaboration, I think, today is, is, is something that is needed. I think we've— if you look at the history of the apparel industry, there were times when there were very strong partnerships, and then it became— I suppose with the sort of launch of fast fashion, I think a lot of the relationships were a lot more transactional. But I see today that, you know, if we are going to address As you mentioned, the, the, the fact that the apparel industry is the second most pollutant in the world, and with oil and renewable energy all being number one at the moment, with renewable energy coming into play, it's not very long before the apparel industry probably be number one. So for us to address the challenges that we have, it is important to be all working together. And, you know, sustainability is not part of your sort of, your sort of goals in the future, I just can't see anyone being in business. So yeah, so it's an interesting time, and collaboration is the only way forward. We're all working together, and I'm involved in a number of industry collaborations within sustainability.

Do you find yourself needing to work with stakeholders that maybe in business 10, 20 years ago would not have been plausible, i.e., perhaps competitors, people who might have been seen as competitors before, or sharing in that kind of way?

Yeah, I mean, I think the relationship also between, I think there's both your sort of, within your company, there's this within your competition, but also the relationship between your customers. And I think, you know, There were times years ago that, you know, we didn't really, really have a voice as such as a manufacturer. I think we were not really, you know, you sort of, your customer told you what to do and that was it. And I think what I've seen, which is great, is that, you know, today we live in a sort of world where equal partnership is very much part of the future. Of course, we're not there yet, we have to get there. But I can see the changes happening and we all, you know, some of the initiatives that I'm involved in, I sit across the table with, with, with all, with all stakeholders and have an equal voice at the table. And I think that's the only way we can really move forward.

Absolutely, absolutely. Um, I mean, maybe you can tell me a little bit more, especially as if your position of Vice Chair of the SAC. What are the sort of subsections that the umbrella term sustainability encompasses? Because it's quite a widely used term.

It is a quite widely used term, as you rightly say. And I think I think that, you know, when we sort of, we launched our sustainability, you know, as I say, sustainability's very, very much part of our DNA, but I think if you look at the sort of new sustainability sort of strategy, you know, with the environmental side, it really launched, you know, when a family member of mine sort of read Inconvenient Truth in the sort of early 2000s, and he came to the office and he said that, you know, we really need to be doing something, and we launched you know, we started our sustainability strategy on the environmental side with, with the launch of, of, um, uh, Mahila, which is our carbon-neutral green factory in Sri Lanka. But over time, you know, while that, that time, you know, sustainability was very much on the environmental side, the word has evolved, the definition has evolved. And today, you know, I look at sustainability as, as really being the triple bottom line: people, planet, profit. And you've got the environmental side, and then you've got the social side, which obviously involves people. So there are, there are some main themes in sustainability at the moment. I think on the environmental side, you know, climate change— I think the UN have just launched the charter within the industry. I think climate change is a huge topic. Circularity, as you just mentioned, I think, you know, the amount of waste that is generated in our industry You know, I'm glad to see that there's a lot of technology that's being developed now, and I think where we need support now is to really commercialize this technology and, you know, be able to really make it a reality. So we are seeing recycled fabric and obviously no sort of nothing into landfill. I think transparency is, you know, we are here today at PI Apparel and looking at technology, you know, how we can improve transparency. Because I think one of the issues we've had in the past is data. You know, if you want to be transparent, you know, we, we want to make sure consumers, um, you know, are able to have the right decisions to be able to buy sustainability, because that at the end of the day is what's needed. I mean, if people are not going to be willing to buy sustainable fashion, there's really no market for it. But it's also our responsibility to educate them. And in order to educate them, we need to be able to give them the data. So transparency is important, so is traceability. Transparency, traceability. And again, there are a number of initiatives now that are out there that are focusing on this, and obviously we're seeing here at this event the technology around it.

Tell me about some of the things that you're doing on the technology front to become more sustainable at Huda Ramani.

We have a sort of software called Rescue. Which is a software that sort of is able to sort of mark data within our facilities in terms of, you know, work data, production data, and give, again, give more data to the employees as well, which I think is important when you're looking at the people side of sustainability, because I think it's important that they understand and are able to recognize what they're doing and we can recognize them accordingly.

Absolutely. So it's a really big change and internally in the company, and obviously that affects the people. Managing that cultural change must be quite the job.

Yes, and we, you know, I mentioned earlier about sustainability, and I sort of maybe talked about the environmental side, but I mentioned the social side has become very, very important now. And we have launched a worker wellbeing program in our facilities. Which has been recognized. I was fortunate to be able to— invited by one of our customers actually to speak at an event at Harvard about our worker well-being program a couple of years ago. And encompasses, you know, every aspect of, of, of a sort of, you know, associates, you know, well-being in terms of, you know, nutrition, physical mental and financial. And I think we have a very sort of detailed train-the-trainer program that has now trickled down to most of our associates in our company. And, you know, we're beginning to see some really positive results out of it as well in terms of, you know, lower labor turnover and just a much happier workforce, which is great. And I think it really helps us. And I think that is something that But, you know, again, we're happy to share and understand. I think it's something that, you know, we've had the opportunity to be able to go to talk about it at Harvard. But I think that, yeah, I mean, I think it's something that really needs to be done across the whole industry. Because again, the image of an apparel worker, unfortunately, sometimes is not so, also positive. But here we can really, you know, we're really seeing, seeing, the other side of things here over here and what we're doing.

Hidromani is a family company. In, in that regard, I guess you employ family values, um, from, from top to bottom. Does that help you address some of these issues with a bit more ease because you've got inherent family values running throughout the company?

Yeah, and I, and as I mentioned, I think sustainability, even though I sort of outlined the sort of newer strategy, um, of the last 15 years, I think The sustainability has been very much in our DNA. You know, we're a fourth-generation family business. Our employees are members of our extended family in many ways, and we live off family values. And I think sometimes, you know, private family companies are able to be quick in decision-making. And I mentioned how we just adopted sustainability just by, you know, a colleague of mine reading a book and coming and talking to the family and making a quick decision. And that's how we all started. And I think that is something that is unique to family businesses to be able to do.

Do you feel like as consumers, obviously we play our part in helping the industry to become more sustainable? Do you feel like we have to shift our values as well?

I've been in sustainability for, you know, quite some time now, and I've sort of, I've had my sort of moments where I thought, you know, hitting my head against the wall, well, what am I doing? But I honestly feel that it's all about timing. And, you know, I went to, I think my sort of, there was a change, pinnacle moment in my career, my sustainability career, I suppose, that sort of made me realize that and sort of led me to do what I'm doing now. And I was at an event in Copenhagen on sustainability, I think it was in 2012, and I sort of attended it, and we had just opened our green, our sort of carbon-neutral facility. And I attended this session and I, everyone was talking about sustainability, but there was not a manufacturer in the room. Or very few manufacturers, I shouldn't say it, maybe there were a few manufacturers there, and I thought to myself, this is not how you're going to address this issue. We need to have all stakeholders here. And from then actually I decided that I was, I realized that to a certain extent my purpose was really to try and be that voice. And ever since then I've obviously been involved as a manufacturer in industry-related sustainability sustainability initiatives and being that voice. And, you know, I'm now beginning to see, you know, the door, the sort of the light at the end of the tunnel, as they say. And I'm beginning to really feel that the last couple of years, there has been some movement. And I think it has a lot to do with more awareness, definitely. Equal partnership, us all being involved and singing from the same hymn sheet, as they say. But also, I think we are seeing the next generation, Generation Z, as they, as they're known, I suppose. Um, they are now beginning to want to associate themselves with companies that do have a sustainability purpose. And so that is beginning to change, uh, you know, and it's trickling down the supply chain, which is great. I mean, great from my point of view being in sustainability. We're seeing that change because there have been, you know, we live in a fast fashion world And that sometimes can challenge sustainability. But I'm glad to see that things are beginning to change now, I hope, and for the future.

There's a whole mind shift, and I think people's values are changing, and people are willing to invest or pay a little bit more money than maybe what they did before. The thing is that it's so disposable as well. And I guess that's another side of it, is the circularity. How do you feel, what do you feel can be done on that side of things to address people's willingness to just throw away clothes and not use clothes? Do you feel there's anything, I mean, I know that you're a manufacturer, but do you have any views on that at all?

[Speaker:JAMES] No, I mean, I've been involved in, in sort of exploring a lot of these sustainability, circularity initiatives I'm involved. You know, we've just signed up to be part of the Ellen MacArthur Foundation. So Ellen MacArthur, you know, famous Olympian from the UK, has decided to, you know, form this sort of foundation related to circularity across all industries. And there's one particular for fashion. And, you know, again, it's pretty bringing people together. As I say, I think, um, at the moment the technology is just evolving. It's there, but it needs to be commercialized. But in order for that to be expedited, we all need to be working together. So, so I, I think that, um, yes, I mean, in terms of the consumer, we're beginning to see the role of retailers. Uh, there are a number of small initiatives, you know, retailers taking clothes back to their stores You know, and we're seeing, you know, you can even rent clothes now. There's all sorts of initiatives going on. We need to maybe sort of make that a little bit more— I think that sort of media probably need to push that even more, and the awareness will come. I mean, I think through social networks and various other means, I think that will come.

Yeah, for sure, for sure. I think you're right, the media does need to make more of a big deal of that. And awareness is a huge thing, especially in all these sustainable goals. The more people that are aware of them, the more traction they will get.

You know, I think the other tool that is very useful, and I think if there's one thing I would encourage people to look at, the UN Sustainable Development Goals that came out a couple of years ago, very simplified goals, 17 goals. I would encourage people to, you know, adopt some of those goals into their companies as a start for sustainability if they have not done so already. It's always great. We always talk about aligning, you know, a sort of standard, and I think the SDGs plays— allows us to do that because I think they encompass most of what we talk about sustainability today.

So later on you're going to be speaking for us Nikhil, can you give those who obviously aren't with us today and listening to this podcast a little bit of insight?

Yes, I'm running a focus group actually on collaboration. So I'm basically going to share my story, you know, of my experience in sustainability, but also talk about, you know, some of the collaborations that are out there already today. I've mentioned some already, Ellen MacArthur Foundation when it comes to circularity, I've been involved in a very interesting and I think probably one of the greatest values to a manufacturer initiative in the last couple of years. One of the biggest challenges in sort of social sustainability from a manufacturing point of view is audit fatigue, the amount of time and money spent for manufacturers to have to audit different standards, different customers. Sometimes many of these different standards are actually audited by a third party, sometimes the same person. And so it's been one of the biggest challenges. And so for the last, and they've been, I talked about timing earlier, about, you know, how there've been many attempts to maybe work and try and address address this, but it's never really worked. But the last 2 years I've been involved in an initiative called the Social and Labour Convergence Project, where we've got over now I think 191 signatories who've all been— well, many of them have been part of working groups to create the tool. It's a converged assessment to create a tool to address audit fatigue. and we launched it last year in two countries, in Sri Lanka and in China, and we now have, you know, many of the major retailers, you know, committing to adopt it once we've sort of moved on from the light operations. But the ultimate aim of the project is to free up resources because the amount of cost we talk about, the cost in production and the amount of cost that goes into audit is phenomenal. And if we can reduce the audit fatigue, it'll free up many resources, financial resources, which ultimately we hope will improve social labor conditions in the apparel industry. So I'm very excited by that. So I'll be mentioning a little bit about that as well. And then also the Sustainable Apparel Coalition, which I'm I'm the vice chair of, which created the, the Higg Index, which from an environmental, you know, again, an index which is probably the most respected now from the environmental side in the fashion industry. And it allows, you know, many of the initiatives or many of the sort of components of sustainability transparency to really be adopted. It really supports that. So we're talking about that, the UN SDGs, many of those collaborative initiatives that are out there. Global Fashion Agenda, which is in Copenhagen now in a couple of weeks' time, you know, what the topics will be discussed there. So yes, I'll be talking about that.

Nice. That's a big sustainability, um, event as well, isn't it? A big, big focus.

Big focus.

I know that, um, I spoke with Anderson Lee, um, and he mentioned the HIG Index and all of the, um, great things that Hong Kong, um, um, is, is doing and that they've been doing in Hong Kong for for the last, well, him and his family.

Yeah.

For the last couple of generations.

Yeah, I mean, hats off to the team that started the SAC, you know, in, I think, 2011, I think it was, you know, and how it's grown and the commitment and, you know, how important it's become. And I'm proud to be, you know, on the board and doing what I can to, to make the industry more sustainable.

How long have you been on the board?

I've been on the board, um, I think 4 years now, actually.

Yeah, 4 years. Yeah. And so how often do, do they meet up?

Um, we meet up, so we have a member meeting every year. Um, so our member meeting will take place in June in Barcelona this year. Um, and then as a board, we meet up, um, you know, we're on, on calls quite frequently, but we meet up, uh, twice a year face to face.

Yeah, excellent, excellent. It must be a very rewarding thing because obviously you've been focused on sustainability for quite a long time.

Yeah.

Now, but then in the last 4 years, do you feel like your journey is just on this quite steep upward trend at the moment because of the focus in the industry that's becoming more and more prevalent among consumers, manufacturers, brands, everyone, all the stakeholders that you're talking about here, it's becoming a much bigger part of that.

Yeah, I think, I think, I think, I think, you know, I talked about, you know, me having a voice and being able to promote sustainability through the initiatives I'm in. And I think that, um, yes, as you rightly said, I think now is the time where, you know, we need to increase our sort of, uh, participation in what we're talking about, because I think we're really beginning to see the, the tide turning. And sustainability really being adopted.

So everyone really wants to do it. What's holding us back?

Well, I mean, I think, I think the business model as well. I think the business model at the moment, we live in a fast fashion environment. So in the past, which obviously has gone against sustainability in many ways, if we'd gone back to the original model where You know, we buy less frequently, that would be more sustainable. Absolutely. But— You have your clothes made for you, and if they get a hole— Yeah, but we're beginning—

If they get a hole in them, someone repairs them for you.

Exactly. We're beginning to— but we, you know, maybe, as I say, it's all about timing. And I think that we're really beginning to experience the effects of climate change. And, you know, so I think, you know, we have to just see the weather patterns that have changed, um, and, and what's going on. I think we're all beginning to experience that now. So I think it's creating— naturally it's creating that more awareness. And I talked to you about earlier about the, the generation change. So I think, you know, we are now, um, we hope, you know, whether we— I don't think we'll ever get back to the original model, um, but with technology— so there are a number of things going on. I mean, we talked about circularity. I mean, if we can commercialize it to technology. And, you know, we're already seeing, you know, every couple of weeks I see, um, you know, some sort of step up in, in what, in what's happening in circularity. So I'm very excited by that. Um, you know, we will, we will, you know, so there are a number of things going on in the industry that hopefully will all amalgamate to make it more sustainable.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Well, Nikhil, look, um, thank you very much for, for joining us today. It's been really interesting to hear more about what up to.

Great, thank you. Everybody get up!