E004 - Leah Garwood-Gowers from the Hardihood

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Welcome to the Green Element Podcast, where business and sustainability come together.

So Leah, thank you very much for joining us on this podcast. I'm looking forward to us chatting about your business and what you've been up to and how you are sustainable and ethical. Yeah, so tell us a bit about your business and what purpose and who you work with.

Well, hi, thanks for having me. I'm really happy to be here. It's a great platform. The Hardy Hood is a brand of plant-based indulgences, and we exist to make living a high-vibe lifestyle delicious, exciting, and easy. And for us, high-vibe living really incorporates the key drivers that are driving sort of the sharp increase in veganism in the UK. So taking care of health, environment, and lifestyle. And we work with a portfolio of premium London retailers, including Selfridges, Planet Organic, Whole Foods in Daylesford, and we also do direct-to-consumer.

Brilliant, brilliant. That's, um, yeah, you're doing loads and loads and loads. That's cool. So what's your business superpower?

Our business superpower. So I believe that our business superpower is that we're digitally native, and by this I mean that we grew our business online on Instagram.

Oh, wow.

Yeah. So when we founded in 2014, Instagram was really booming and we really began our journey there. So we showed our first steps of our project from day one through to now is available for people to see on Instagram. And I think this really means that we have direct contact with our consumer and our target audience. And it's not a one-way conversation. So we're not talking at them. For example, for our most recent product, we crowdsourced information on which flavors to develop and based our new product Good Puds on people's favorite flavors. And it means that we're giving our audience, the audience that we've sort of grown, who've been on our journey, it means that we're then giving them exactly what they want. And it's been said that the biggest competitor to snacking today is technology. So instead of fighting this, we sort of meet halfway. It just means that people are, instead of at times when they might have been emotionally indulging or indulging because they're bored or snacking because they're bored, they're actually now just scrolling. And it is a real— it's real competition for the snacking industry. So we continue to produce engaging content, and in turn, our followers champion our products and peer-to-peer recommendations are really big for us and really important, and it's sort of been said that among millennials it's the most effective form of advertising.

Surely that must be amongst everyone as well. I mean, I know I've now bought your book on the back of the conversations we've had, and I must admit we only received it on Monday, so I haven't started making any recipes. I'm really, really looking forward to making them, and it was purely down to talking to you, and I think you do buy things through listening to people and talking to people. And the fact that you're using these communicative channels— communicative, can you say communicative? Channels— is absolutely brilliant. And it's such a way that people can, you know, can talk to each other.

Yeah, and I think digital ads, I think there's like 4.5% effectiveness, and celebrity endorsements is somewhere around the same. Mark. So it just goes to show that it has to be authentic, and it almost— this sort of brand loyalty that a lot of these younger brands have built up on social media platforms, that actually can't be bought. So it's a real asset that shouldn't be ignored. And so that's why I think it's our superpower. But I also think that brands with young founders or young businesses shouldn't forget that knowing how to communicate really use social media as an edge that they have on older, more established brands. It can really work to their advantage.

Yeah.

I see it even now with brands that are coming through. So you've got the more established team of a brand that's maybe it's not their first time creating a business and they've got the team, they've got the strategy, they've got the sales power. They're really killing it on the distribution front. and their products out there. However, you look at their marketing or communication side, particularly Instagram, and it's where they absolutely fall flat. I think at some point I do believe that these 2 things will really have to tie in if you want your business to work. We're about to go into the Amazon age. And I think if you don't have your online presence really nailed down and sorted and it's shoppable and You're really talking directly to the consumer in that way. I think there's a chance that these brands that aren't making that effort, or it's not genuine or heartfelt or authentic, will fall flat.

Yeah, yeah.

That's definitely where I think business is going to start.

I guess you've led us nicely on to our next question of, can you tell us about how you engage your staff, suppliers, customers with your mission and purpose?

Well, so our mission is to build a sweet treat dynasty using only natural and plant-based ingredients. And our purpose is very consumer-focused. So we want to make it easy, delicious, and exciting. And these sort of keywords really inform our decisions around distribution, product development, and the way we communicate. However, instead of sort of presenting these at the beginning of every conversation, we try to make sure that it's woven into everything that we do and how we behave as a brand is really aligned to this. So for example, we want our consumer to be able to find us easily in a myriad of stockists with fast direct consumer options that they can shop on their mobile on the way home. So it's very easy. So it means that easy is very key for us. And that also incorporates hitting a certain price point for us. We really want to make it easy for everyone. And it doesn't— we don't want this way of living to be something that's just accessible to, you know, the higher income brackets, the people who really have got the time to go and Whole Foods or Planet Organic and the means to do so. For us, that's a real key part of our purpose, is driving that down and making sure that it's getting to the people who want it and need it. So I'm very passionate about creating entry-level price points. And then when it comes to product development, we're really sure to brief everyone on our pillars of innovation, where flavor comes at absolutely above everything else. And we strive to make everything very exciting and inspirational and aesthetically led. So that again comes back around to, I think, the online presence that a brand can have. And we want to make sure that everything's very playful and we're very open. So it's very, like I said, a two-way conversation and has a very open window into everything that we're doing. So yeah, I think in terms of making sure you communicate these things to everyone, it's almost like your actions sometimes can speak louder than words. And you don't always have time to give people the elevator pitch or the presentation or the deck. This is why I'm doing this. You just need to find a way to demonstrate it in everything that you're actually doing. Mm-hmm.

I think that's key, isn't it? I know that we're currently sponsored by RBS, and one of the things that we are learning is this 1-minute pitch. And interestingly, I think I haven't actually ever done a 1-minute pitch to new clients, but what I have learned is structure and an understanding of how to speak to different people. So I've kind of— Although I'm not particularly doing the pitch, I'm actually communicating what you've just said, communicating a message, but, and using, you know, that brand value or the mission and mixing and matching it. But same thing, different people.

Yes, exactly. I think if you imagine like the mission and purpose are the sort of skeleton or the bones of what you're doing, and everything else is the veg and gravy. It's almost like you need to make sure that you can— you don't need to explicitly say that it's bones, but you can deliver the meal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's brilliant coming from a vegan. I love it. When it comes to running an ethical and sustainable business, what's been your biggest struggle so far? Can you Let us know how you've overcome it.

Yeah, I think for us the biggest struggle, as someone who, or a team of people that really engage in a lot of the issues that are around, it's for us the biggest struggle has been knowing which battles to fight. So firstly, we're vegan, which for us is the biggest commitment we have have to being ethical. And that was from day one, has always been. It's, you know, it's absolutely tied into our mission and our purpose and everything around it. That is number one. But there's obviously other ethical conversations and battles and things that need to be addressed. So we also use recycled cardboard for our packaging, and we source our ingredients as sustainably as possible. But our biggest challenge, I would say, is we find addressing our plastic consumption to be challenging.

I can imagine.

Yeah. Our desserts are packaged, they're potted, and there are really very few manufacturers who will handle glass. So that was sort of problem number one. Number 2, glass really increases distribution costs.

heavier.

Yeah. So that really affects our— sort of, it really challenges our purpose, which is to make really entry-level vegan products. And so we overcome this by firstly, I think, addressing the packaging of new products before moving forward. So it's very unlikely that we'll develop products with plastic packaging again. And that's the real commitment to our NPD pipeline and just knowing that, okay, we don't really want to do that again. We had no choice in this with this product. We really sort of explored the other options and there wasn't really an alternative. However, with other products, we'll make sure that we won't do that again, I don't think. I think we'll— if we don't have the packaging solution, we probably won't move forwards. And I think in terms of addressing it, so we do receive, and I think probably a lot of brands will receive sort of similar feedback, especially when you're very visible on Instagram. It's very easy for someone to just drop you a message. We get sometimes receive messages about the plastic pots or the plastic packaging.

Mm-hmm.

And we address this by like, we're very empathetic and always really, really, really welcome the feedback because it's important to accept feedback, good and bad, on the people. You can't just say, you know, we love the praise, but everything else is going to be ignored. And the way we address it is by really highlighting the issues that we are tackling and explaining to people that we're a very small business. And like a lot of businesses in this space, we're trying to bring products to the market that will help consumers live well. And with the focus on great ingredients, no hidden ingredients, no chemicals, nothing that's a filler, I think really, and that's really important to us. And I think by placing the emphasis back on what brands are doing to help, it always seems to really, it drives it home a little bit. And I think people, we haven't had a situation where We've received that feedback and then we've explained what we are doing and then they're still upset, it's usually like, all right, you know, that makes sense, I understand. So it's almost like not being afraid to explain to people the challenges that you are facing or like not shying away from it. Because I think for us, I think you might have sensed, like plastic's a real sort of stigma for us. We'd really rather not be doing it.

I was wondering if you had done a lifecycle kind of carbon footprint of your product, so including plastic into that. So comparing different types of— because you may, depending on the type of plastic you use, you may find that actually your carbon footprint is less by using a more recyclable plastic, because some plastics are more recyclable than others.

Right.

And therefore feeding it into the chain is actually not necessarily a bad thing, particularly if you're using recyclable plastic to start off with, because you're just pulling it around in a circle. So it may not necessarily be a, you know, a bad thing. But I think if you— and it would be a way to demonstrate to your clients, people who buy your products, that actually you've thought about it and it's demonstrating that actually plastic could be better than glass. Because from— I totally resonated with what you were saying about glass being heavy. And glass is also incredibly, you know, recycling it is a heavy energy process as well. So I don't know, it may— I don't know, I'm just throwing it out there, just thinking that it's—

It's a really interesting thought, and it's probably actually not something that I've thought about, and I think it would be really helpful in explaining. I mean, I think what people want to know is that you're not blindly making decisions.

Yes.

I think they just want to be assured that you are thinking about the same issues that are important to them, that your consumer really wants to know that they are aligned with the brand that they're investing in or championing. So I think, yeah, if you can be a bit louder and prouder about the decisions you make, it almost gives them confidence that you're thinking about it. So I think that's a really good way of looking at it.

Yeah, I absolutely agree with that. Absolutely agree with that. If you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners which could help them with their purpose, what would that be?

I would say it's probably to allow your purpose to emerge, and I know this is sort of a controversial opinion, and many sort of the business— and I think I actually, I think I disagree with this, and I've seen many great businesses define their purpose and refine it further years of their plan. And I think the reason for this is because sometimes you need to let your business grow and evolve naturally, and sometimes founders also grow with their business, and it causes them to sort of reassess what changes they want to bring into the world. And I think sort of in the chaos of the early days of a startup, it can sometimes take over, and, you know, your focus really becomes on the doing, the getting the product out there, the packaging, the sales, the marketing. marketing, you might not have that much time to think, okay, like to take a step back and say, okay, so why am I doing this? And I think that can sometimes come a little bit further down the line once you've had a few emotional reactions to things that have happened in your business or consumer engagement that you've had or whatever it is. And I think, okay, so what you can sort of think to yourself, I can say, what have— what are the elements of the conversations that we're having? that really light us up here and what keywords really, you know, drive, really inform the change that this business can make. And what's really exciting me and getting me out of bed in the morning about, and let this become the purpose.

Yeah.

For us, our purpose was very broad when we started. You know, we had all these big ambitions and we wanted to We wanted to do everything. And I think it actually only came a little bit further down the line that we really nailed it down to that we wanted it to be easy, accessible, exciting, and delicious. Those, those that for me particularly, the accessible and easy side of things is really what gets me out of bed in the morning. So really knowing that we have a business that can reach a lot of people and give them really positive change in their life. And I think a lot of people would like to make better choices, and it feels, you know, it feels good to make choices that are high vibe choices, you know, that affect the environment positively, that affect your health positively, that affect your mental health positively. But however, life often takes over So you're in a rush to get somewhere, so you grab a dodgy chocolate bar, or you're rushing to pick up your kids from somewhere and you just have to grab what's on the go. And I think if that was made— if those things were made easier, people would feel a lot more empowered to make decisions that actually really they were really proud of.

Yeah.

And that's part of our purpose that really gets me up in the morning. And that's not something that I think we I didn't know that when we founded the business. I didn't know that was going to be the thing that really was the thing that drove me. You know, you might have thought that it was having a brand that looked really nice or whatever. It changes. And I've actually seen this with quite a lot of businesses. So I think that's kind of key. So yeah, let your purpose sort of—

Evolve.

Evolve and come to you. And rather than it being written on the front page of the business plan on day minus 60, let it come with the business.

Well, I would say that going on from what you've just said is you are who you are, so your mission will never change. You will almost like a kind of triangle, you know, it will be really broad and you'll narrow it down as you grow, but It's never going to be over there and it's never going to be over there. It's always going to be who you are or who your business partners and you are. You know, it's— that is— that's just the way it is. You're not, you're not gonna suddenly have another personality in 2 or 3 years' time. Well, you may do. Hopefully not.

I was 25 when we founded The Hardened Hood and that was 4 years ago and I think Like I said, I am still the same person, but it's just knowing those key points that really light you up, and that will be the change that you can bring into the world. I think those are the things you can do because it's only you that inspires. I think that's really key.

I know what changed for us was employing people and growing with more staff and colleagues. Could you tell us a bit about how you approach environmental management and your carbon footprint?

So interestingly, I actually, I have to be really honest and say that this isn't something that I've previously addressed.

So—

You kind of have. I would say you have, only because you've talked about the fact that you've thought about the glass, you've talked about how you think about your cardboard packaging, you have— so yes, I just, it's not that I want to disagree with You as the interviewee, but I think you have thought about it environmentally. I think it's unfair to say that you haven't. You may not have gone into details.

Yeah, so maybe we've thought about it in the sense that we would think about— I suppose my business partner and I, we are very much engaged in that conversation. And, you know, we recycle, we don't buy plastic when we don't have to. And so all of that does feed into the hardyhood, and we do make the decisions based on that. I haven't ever quantified it.

Yeah, no, that makes absolute sense, and I think that's very normal.

Yeah, I suppose it's just making sure that the decisions you make for your business are really aligned with the decisions you would make personally. So I think with environmental issues, and we're so lucky that we're at a time when there's such awareness. You know, you just have to look on Netflix or listen to podcasts. The information is so available to us. And I think it's one of the things that we have potentially to thank for what's going on in America right now, is that a lot of people are really very vocal and these conversations are on the tip of everyone's tongue. And it's, it's all there for you to know. And I think as a business, you almost can't ignore what you're bringing into— I mean, I'm sure there are many unethical businesses who do ignore what they're bringing into the world. But I think as a new business, as a business in this space, I think you can't, you can't not be engaged with what you're putting into the world. And if you're producing on a mass level, then you need to be looking at what you're bringing into the world on a mass level. And I think, yeah, we just make decisions that That are informed by all of the things that we know are happening in the world.

Yeah, yeah, perfect, perfect. And so is there any advice or learning that you'd like to share with people listening about this podcast?

Absolutely. We're on a massive journey, and Hardy Hoop was my first business and my business partner's first business as well. We're lucky that we've had it— we're lucky that we've been able to be on the journey with this business. We've had a lot of I would say, yeah, pure luck on our side and timing. And it's meant that we've been able to make mistakes and learn from them without it being— nothing so drastic has happened that we can't continue with the business. We've had a lot of things that we would do differently. So I would say the biggest advice would be to don't be afraid to embrace the most ambitious version of your mission. For us, I think in the beginning, We really, we knew we were thinking small and we just couldn't quite get our heads around thinking much bigger. And that's something that we've had to really teach ourselves at Zeus. And I think if you're struggling to think big, then look at other successful businesses who inspire you and listen to everything that their founders put out there. So with modern savvy brands in particular, there will be so much communication around the why and the how and what they're building, and you won't struggle to find this information or inspiration. So like, podcasts are really great for this, and I listen to them constantly. So I love listening to interviews with the founders of Impossible Burger, Airbnb, Glossier. Recently I listened to the founders of Ugly Drinks.

Have you got any podcasts— have you got any podcasts in particular that you listen to?

Ooh, do you know what? I actually don't have like a set of podcasts, but what I tend to do is if there's a brand that I like, I'll just put it into the search.

Okay, interesting. Oh, that's really— I've never thought about doing that.

Find out the founder's name or find out the brand's name and put it into the podcast search and you will get an absolute wealth. And then I tend to binge.

Oh, brilliant. Love that advice. Love that advice.

It's really good. And especially with sort of, I don't know, Americans are really on the podcast sort of world. And also once you've found one, they'll tend to be from like a business podcast and you can then browse through and have a listen to— there's a really good one, I wish I could remember the name. It's a female, it's a woman's business podcast. She's in London and she has a book called The Little Black Book and then her podcast is amazing. amazing. She does great interviews with founders. So she did Lana from Flume, which is a flower delivery website. It's really good.

I will look her up and start listening.

I'll send it to you and you can put it in the notes.

Yeah, no, I was thinking exactly the same. I was gonna put a link to it in the notes.

Yeah, it's just basically listening to people who are innovating and really hard in their categories and just listen to the challenges that they face, how they've done it. And I think even just for your subconscious to know that it's possible for someone who's, you know, a team of one to build something incredible, it almost lets— it informs your subconscious. Okay, wait, it's doable. And these are the steps and the actionable steps that I need to do to get there. And just let other people's achievements sort of fuel your ambition. And also knowing that this is a really incredible time to make a change in the world because technology and consumer behavior is moving so fast that brands are having to innovate to keep up. And it creates space for newer, fresher thinking brands.

Yeah.

And that can be, you know, the inexperienced entrepreneur's absolute entry point to the market is that Brilliant. They are thinking outside the box. Just let that be your platform.

Yeah, brilliant. And so what's the best way we can connect with you and learn more?

Definitely check out our Instagram. It's definitely where we're the most active and we're really engaged on there. Our recipe book, Raw Cake, is available in shops and on Amazon. It's also available in the US. It's a real crowd pleaser. It's got 100 recipes and it looks great on the coffee table.

It does, and I concur with that. It does look amazing.

And our Good Puds, which are our raw vegan potted desserts— there's caramel biscuit sundae, chocolate fudge pie, and raspberry blueberry pudding— and they're available in Whole Foods, Planet Organic, Daylesford, and Selfridges.

Brilliant. Well, thank you very much for your time today. It's been absolutely fascinating talking to you, and I hope our listeners have learnt Well, they'll have learned a huge amount, and I would imagine they will be listening to this show 2 or 3 times, not just once, to understand what it is that they could do. So thank you so much for everything.

Thank you for having me. It's been a real pleasure.

Brilliant. Thank you.

See you soon.

Bye-bye.

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