E019 - Martin Baxter from IEMA

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So welcome, Martin. Thank you very much for joining us on the Green Element Podcast. Um, you are— well, for me, you are IEMA. Um, I've known you for quite a few years now, I think pretty much since I started, I think back in 2004. Would that be about right?

Well, that could be when you started. I'm afraid I go back even further than that, so Brilliant.

So I'm really looking forward to this podcast and listening to you and what IEMA are up to, etc. So could you tell us a bit about who IEMA are and what you do?

Yeah, sure. Well, firstly, we're a professional body for environment and sustainability professionals, so we have about 14,500 individual members who are working in roles. I mean, we have members in over 100 countries, so Our footprint is quite big and our members are doing great work. They could be working in corporate sustainability and environmental management roles, they might be working in impact assessments, they could have a corporate role that maybe they have facilities in 30, 40, 50 countries around the world, or they could be a site coordinator on environment, health, safety, and possibly a bit of quality as well. So our membership spans a really sort of extensive part of the profession of people who are working to make the world a better place through the world of work. And that's really exciting.

Yeah, huge remit, massive remit.

It is, and that's just the nature of, you know, what we're trying to do. Our vision is transforming the world to sustainability, so part of that is having a huge membership which is doing great things. And then it's also the work that we do to catalyze and amplify that, either by what we might call changing the rules of the game. So some of the work that we do with the International Standards Organization, using the experience and expertise of our members to inform what global standards might look like and being able to provide input and development of those. So an obvious one is ISO 14001.

You were integral to that formation, weren't you?

Yeah, I mean, we, we played a very big role in this latest revision that was published in 2015. We set out a view of what we wanted to see back in 2012 and spent 3 years making sure that that standard was going to be fit not just for you know, here and now, but actually into the future. And we know that some of the content of that standard wouldn't have been in there without IIMA's input. And you think over half a million organizations are using that standard in 200 countries around the world, then you get an idea of how an organization with members can scale up and make a much bigger difference. And I think that's, you know, for us, it's how do we scale up what we're doing to be Truly transformational.

It is a fantastic standard as well. You know what? 15 years ago, I never thought I'd ever say that. Oh my God, this is so boring. Why can't people just be more environmental? But now, you look at it, it is so good at the way that it is constructed and structured, and it's got everything in there that helps you become more environmental, even if you don't certified to 14001, use it as a structure and as a benchmarking tool to enable you to be more environmental, really.

I mean, it's music to my ears because I now have the, uh, the delightful role in chairing the group that's responsible for that standard, um, and some other standards on, um, valuing environments and some environmental economic standards. Um, so I have a committee in ISO with about 100 countries. It's a pretty big meeting, actually. Great fun to, to try and get everybody on the same page and in something that's really progressive. So yeah, it's great fun.

Is it online or do you have to all meet up?

We do quite a lot of work online, but could you imagine an online meeting with people in 100 different countries? So, you know, we have international calls all the time with various groups, but occasionally we get to meet up. So yeah, that's part of the negative impacts associated with some of the things that we have to do to deliver hopefully more positive outcomes.

So how did you get into— you notioned towards the fact that you've been in it for Much longer than me. So how long did you— how did you get into this environmental world, as it were?

Well, when I was doing my A-levels, I was going to be an accountant. I had loads of opportunities to go into accountancy. That was what I was going to study at university. And for one reason or another, I didn't get the places. And it was okay. am I going to do? What am I really interested in? And did really well in geography, and that was something that really caught my eye. I did an undergraduate degree in Earth and Life Studies, and then I did a master's in Environmental Assessments and Management, and that was the platform for me being able to get a role actually in a predecessor of IEMA back in the early '90s. which just happened to be based fairly close to where I was. I could actually cycle to work to there at that point in time. I did my dissertation there on World Bank environmental assessment processes and International Development Organization environmental assessment approaches, and from that I managed to get a role right at the bottom of the organization, and I've been able to stick with it. What's been real fun and a real privilege is being at the forefront of the developments in terms of timescales of lots of new and innovative ways in which environment is being dealt with in organisations and in the economy and society as a whole. So whether it was work on environmental impact assessment, strategic environmental assessment, getting involved in the development of whole new set of standards on management systems, being able to see how trading of carbon— so starting to put a price on carbon and the developments of, say, UK emissions trading schemes, um, and then into the whole world of, you know, international standardization, um, from the late '90s. So yeah, so that's been a bit of a roller coaster. I can imagine. And it's interesting because a lot of the work that I got involved in, it doesn't have a real manifest impact tomorrow. I mean, it's quite long-term, some of this. And so trying to put the building blocks in for a much better future, recognizing that it takes a long time to see the positive outcomes of what you've done, that's an interesting challenge just professionally.

But you must have seen, like, looking back at the last, God, 25 years is what you've just said, really.

Your maths is so good.

Well, I don't know, there's many people at Green Element that would disagree with that. But if you look back at the last 25 years of your career, you must have seen so much change going on. And I know that because, um, you speak to— there are some people out there like, say, John Trevell at the Green Consultancy, who's been doing what, what I do now for 40 years. You know, he was waxing lyrical about the environment in the '70s and doing work like that. And you just— yeah, you must have seen so much change. Absolutely.

And I think what's really happened is that this whole agenda and the imperative of tackling the environment in a way in which we can start to think about how do we enhance