E026 - Peter Elbourne from Shore Seaweed

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Yeah, I do. If you could tell me a bit more about your business and what it is that you do. I've been on your website, but—

Well, there's a bit of confusion. We're in between names at the moment. So the company is New Wave Foods.

Right.

And that was incorporated in 2015. And that was after 3 years of research. what we recognized was an opportunity for Scottish seaweed, and we saw the opportunity in food. And so we started with the name New Wave Foods, but we also recognized that there was an opportunity for a brand.

Right.

That would communicate everything much more effectively. And so when we started, as part of the process of thinking how we go about seaweed as food, we also looked at getting the right brand together. And that brand is Shore, the Scottish Seaweed Company. And that's the brand that is ready to go. And so all of our seaweed is now going to be sold under Shore, the Scottish Seaweed Company. So that's the new brand.

Right.

And the first of our products is that. So that's our seaweed puffs.

Oh, okay.

And so that's our lead product. And we have another product that's ready to go, and then an NPD process to come up with new products behind it.

And what is the environmental impact of seaweed? A lot less than normal crisps?

Yeah, and that's actually— I'll give you a bit more background to me as well. Seaweed itself as a material is incredibly sustainable, and it requires no fertilizer, it requires no land, no freshwater input, and there's just an amazing opportunity for seaweed. And we chose food because of the value based on provenance. quality and sustainability.

Right.

But over time, we want to branch out into new markets for our products as well. So at our core, the ingredient and the material that we all care so much about is incredibly sustainable. Right. And you may know there's a lot of talk about using seaweed for fuels. Uh, and so taking the, um, seaweed, the carbohydrates out of seaweed and using for biogas, bioethanol. Um, and I'm sure that will come in time, but it requires such low cost of production.

Right.

Such massive scale of production to achieve economies that it's not going to happen for a long time. But okay, just showed this huge potential for seaweed and, uh, and we think in particular Scottish seaweed.

Right. And how many people are there at, um, at Shore?

Uh, sorry?

How many people are there at Shore?

Um, we, we have, uh, 12 people full-time equivalent.

Right.

So we have, um, obviously one of our challenges is working with the tide. So we have a harvesting team up in Wick.

Right.

And they're out this afternoon. It's a bit gray and drizzly, but for them that's probably actually not that bad. It's not too windy and rough. And so there's a team of about 6, 7, 8 guys that are out harvesting, right? Um, depending on the species that we're after and the time of year.

Okay.

And then there's a factory team, and then head office, as it were, is Olness. And that's where we do the management of the harvest sites and the scientific side of things. And it's where our core functions of admin and finance are as well. Okay.

Very cool.

A bit more background to me. So I, um, I'm a marine biologist. So I did, uh, I was doing my PhD at Newcastle and my wife had just finished her PhD. And it's very difficult for 2 marine biologists to get 2 jobs at the same time at the same place. So in, in recognition of that, We were coming up to the Highlands where Catherine's parents were living, and we thought, well, we like it up here, we'll have a go. And I went through various jobs, so energy consultancy, and then through various things, but I did a lot of work in community projects. So I was doing work— I did work for a couple of different transition towns. groups and Friends of the Earth in Vanessa Ross, and in particular community energy and sustainable transport projects.

Right.

And I was doing that part-time, and then this, this opportunity came up to do business research part-time as well, and seaweed was the 10th idea that we looked at. And in seeing that opportunity for seaweed, that got bigger and bigger, and I became full-time a few years ago.

Right.

Seaweed project. So I have all this background of environmental work and sustainability and carbon reduction and everything, and I want to bring as much of that as possible into this whilst balancing all the challenges of being a startup and having all the the day-to-day stuff to worry about as well.

And what would you say your biggest challenges were?

In terms of the business as a whole or—

From an environmental sustainability perspective.

Yeah, I think it's very difficult for any small business working in food because a lot of the solutions in the food industry to reduce plastic packaging to make production more efficient is achievable at scale. And it's much harder to start up and be successful in putting together a product that is— and processes where energy is at the forefront. So it's very difficult starting small, but if you don't start with something we'll never be able to get to the point where it can be pulled together. And we just, we care so much about the seaweed itself and how important it is that itself as a product is so incredibly sustainable. And that's why we put a lot of effort into managing and safeguarding the environmental sustainability of our supply.

And do you, is it manufactured? I don't know, as in do you make the crisps near to where you pick?

Yeah, so what we do is we have our factory in Wick, and so the guys would go out of the factory, leave the factory and go out to the harvest sites. We have harvest sites on the north and east coast of Caithness, and Team will go out and they cut the seaweed by hand. And they cut different seaweeds in different ways to allow for regrowth. So some of them like kelps have a kind of almost like a conveyor belt. So you just cut them above the base of the plant and they regrow. And others grow from the tips. So you just take one half of the plant, leaving the other half to grow on. So they harvest by hand, carry it back up the shore, back to the factory. At the factory, the seaweed is washed, dried, and milled. And when seaweed is dried, it has a very long shelf life. So we harvest seasonally to make sure that we're picking the seaweed when it's in peak condition. And we build up stock for sales year-round.

Right.

And so that's, that's the WIC factory. And my role— so I'm Managing Director of Supply and Operations, and so my responsibility is to oversee the delivery of seaweed from the shore and through to the product to sell wholesale, so effectively by the kilogram.

Hmm.

And then we have a Managing Director of Value Add, and he takes this raw material And adds value to it with these, with our branded products. And so effectively, that's our main customer. And in order to start this process, we have outsourced production of those products to third-party manufacturers.

Okay. And do you find that difficult within your supply chain to keep from a sustainability standpoint, or do you have quite good controls over?

No, we're quite happy with that, and we have good traceability. And it's also the only way we can practically start up as well. And I'm sure eventually when we have— we want to be doing more products where we're delivering it through to finished retail and wicking it all up over time. But it would be a whole other area of work that we'd need to learn from scratch. And we've had to learn everything from scratch all the way through from day one.

Yeah, cool. So how do you— you said you've got 12 FTE, full-time equivalents. How do you engage your staff and how do you, you know, how do you get your Staff, suppliers, customers on board with your mission and purpose?

Well, we have that engagement with the staff on sustainability. It's all the way through. So we're not— people have walked up to us at the factory in Wick and said, can I go and pick some seaweed for you and give you a bag? And we politely said no. So our harvesters are trained. And so we take them through how to cut the different species, the different types of seaweed.

Right.

And there's one thing, I think it was last season, last autumn, the office team had a plan for harvesting dulse. So dulse is one of the famous edible Right. And unsurprisingly, it's also, it's also one of the hardest to get because it's very slow to harvest. It's quite a small species and it's down on the low shore. So we're trying to think through ways of boosting how much we could get back to the factory. And it does grow on other farms. So it's epiphytic, which means it can just grow on the surface of other plants. And we suggested, why don't we pick those plants and take them back to the factory and then take off the ones that we actually want? And it was the guys at the factory, the harvesters, said they were the ones that pointed out, if we do that, it's not sustainable harvesting because we're taking that plant back and not allowing it to regrow. And it was the office guys hadn't thought of that. It needed the harvesters to realize that that was not part of our message, that wasn't what we should be doing. So we have a, we have kind of a marine science team that manages the harvest sites.

Right.

So we do biomass surveys. And we harvest to quota. So we harvest 20%, can harvest up to 20% of the biomass of each species at each site in a year.

Okay.

And we harvest under license. So we have the main owner of the foreshore in the UK is the Crown Estate. And so we have a license with Crown Estate Scotland for harvesting seaweed. And as part of that, we're also monitoring the environmental impact. And again, there wasn't a playbook for how to do that.

Mm-hmm.

And we've— a team of marine biologists are looking at this and trying to work out how to do it. And we've had surveys running since 2015 in Caithness where we're monitoring not just the seaweed, but the associated community of plants and animals with the seaweed. And that's been running as an annual survey running in areas where we're harvesting, where we're not harvesting. And one of those surveys is underway now as I speak up in Cape Ness. So a timely reminder of that. And then in terms of getting the message out to customers, in our value-add range, the seaweed is very much the star ingredient of our products. And we're also focusing on natural nutrition. So it's what's in the Seaweed rather than artificially boosting with vitamins and minerals, because seaweed is such a great product and packed full of minerals especially. And let the seaweed speak for itself.

Brilliant, brilliant.

So do you— I mean, you veered towards the fact that you think seaweed in the future was potentially quite a big part of energy as well. Why do you think the barriers— what do you think the barriers are for that? Is it knowledge? Is it expertise in the area? Or is it fundamentally understanding the financials behind it?

Or what? So much of it is to do with scale. We did some analysis early on in thinking about what to do. What are the different things you could do with seaweed? What is the opportunity? Now what we did was we balanced the value in the end product against the complexity of processing. And the challenge with bioenergy is that you have a material, a product that isn't necessarily that easy to produce, but it also has to compete on price with fossil fuels. And that means, again, this startup application, it means that it's difficult to realize, whereas there are other markets for seaweed that can help an industry scale. So bioenergy and other bioplastics from seaweed, and all these amazing things that you can do, will come when cultivation is at a level that is so efficient and easy that it can be done on a scale that brings the cost of production right down. And that would mean it could compete with fossil fuels and more than compete with, um, land crops.

Right. And would you— I mean, would it be a case of having a sea crop in, say, the middle of the Irish Sea or the middle of the North Sea or Something like that, would that be what you'd envisage?

Yeah, and farming is a really important part of what we're about as well. So we recognized early on that hand harvesting wild seaweed was the best way to get going and start learning about seaweed and producing seaweed. And a very, very sustainable option with the seaweed cut in such a way to grow back and But we also saw that cultivation is the farming of seaweeds for the long term. So we started looking at farming quite early on.

Right.

We have been doing trials and we're close to putting in our first seaweed farm off the west coast of Scotland. And that would be our playground of sorts for trying different things to get— because the key is getting it in the water and out of the water as efficiently as possible. So the cycle for growing seaweed at sea is that you deploy it in the autumn, so around now, and then over the autumn and the winter, there's hardly any growth.

Right.

But then when the light comes back in January, the nutrients come back, it's suddenly incredibly fast. So it could even be centimeters a day that it will grow. And what will start from a microscopic plant in November will be a 2-meter-long piece of kelp in spring. So we'd be harvesting around April, May.

Right.

And that's an incredibly important part of the business because it's a scalable solution. means we can produce lots of the most commercially attractive species and we can have more control over the raw material as well.

And does the, um, are there more fish? I mean, it must— is there a knock-on effect?

Yeah, it's a refuge. Yes. So, um, uh, it had— it's, uh, well, it's offering shelter in the sea. And there are environmental impacts with all— with any— there is nothing that anyone can do that has no environmental impact. But the environmental impact of seaweed in comparison to all other forms of aquaculture, because they're plants, so they're a carbon sink and taking nitrogen out of the water. And they're also What we think is that the seaweed will grow better in more exposed conditions as well, and so that would mean that eventually seaweed can go offshore and not be competing for that protected coastal water space.

Okay, brilliant, cool. You've given me a massive insight into seaweed. Thank you. Really, really interesting. And listen, it actually sets off recording straight off the bat on the beginning of the phone call. I can absolutely do it so that there's no video if you want, but I'll send it to you with the video. And because it's actually really easy, because I just put it all together and then I extract the audio anyway for iTunes.

Yeah.

But it's, yeah, it works better for your social media as well as ours to have video.

To be honest with you, no one watches it.

This is what our marketing person told us. We need to have video on it. And I was like, seriously?

Well, when I watched one to just see a bit what you're about, I put the video on and watched for about 30 seconds and then And you're like listening to something else when listening in the background.

You've kind of proved my point. But you know what marketing is like. So I'll send it to you.

Okay. Because I should have also said, we were— we kind of recognized earlier this year that innovation was what we're about. So we've had to innovate from day one. No one was really doing what we're doing. We've all had to come together and work out how to go about harvesting seaweed and processing seaweed and making seaweed into great products. And on Friday night, we won at the Heinz& Lyons Food and Drink Awards the Innovation Prize.

Oh, cool.

That was really good. And that's our first prize. We're a young company, so it's the first prize that we've won. And it was really good because All the hard work put in. It's just every day there are challenges and there's lots of debate to be had of how to go about doing things and keep to the integrity of the business. And yeah, it's just really good to have that recognition for all the work that we do.

Can I ask you what your wife does?

Oh, well, she—

Because we didn't end up talking about her because we got to the story of Yeah.

So she came up, the job that she had when she moved up was in advising the council with recycling.

Right.

And then she went to work for a social enterprise in recycling and reuse. And 2 children came along.

Right.

So my eldest just started school last year and my wife recognized that she wanted to be a teacher.

Right.

And so she did the training last year and now she is a primary school teacher. So she's in her probationary year and it's incredibly hard work. I thought this was hard work, but to be a teacher is incredibly hard work.

I was wondering whether you'd say that she was working with you. I didn't know. That's the reason why I was asking.

No, no, people are. Yeah, people do ask that. Yeah. But no, I'm glad she's not because it would put a strain on things.

I know, I know exactly what you mean. Listen, because we've ended up just doing recording the podcast, do you mind if I just start at the beginning? As in welcoming you in to it and then I can cut it. And put it to the— sorry, is that all right?

Yeah, absolutely.

I thought we were going to end up turning off the video, but we just ended up talking. It just seemed like the right thing to do just to carry on. So, hi Peter, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Welcome to Green Element Podcast. I'm really looking forward to hearing more about what it is that you guys do and what you're up to.

Great, thank you very much. So we're Shored Scottish Seaweed Company and we aim to be the— ah, that's all fine. Should I start that again?

Yeah, yeah, do.

Hi, thank you for inviting me on today. So my name is Peter Elbourne, I'm Managing Director of Supply and Operations for Shored Scottish Seaweed Company and we aim to be the UK's leading seaweed company. So at the moment we harvest organic seaweed from the north coast of Scotland and we process that into value-added products, and the first of which shortly to be launched are Shore Seaweed Puffs.

And then show— can you show your— can you show your— yeah, because you showed it to me earlier and it's nothing like seaweed, exactly what it is.

Brilliant. So we have 4 flavours. And seaweed's our star ingredient, and they will be available in shops very soon. Very soon.

Thank you.

Good.

Brilliant. Thank you so much for today.

No problem. Thank you.

It's, um, yeah, it's cool. It's just, I love— I'm really enjoying this podcast. It's not something I thought we'd end up doing, but able to talk to you and understand more about seaweed, you know, you just end up— I've spoken to beauticians I've spoken to. You just end up speaking to so many different people about 2 different things.

It's great.

It's cool. Thank you.

I've never been on a podcast before, but I listen to them a lot. So that's very good.

When I email you the follow-up, I can put in the date as well of when it will be.

Okay.

I think it's roughly the end of December.

Great.

All right.

Thank you very much.

Cheers. Take care.

Good luck. Bye. Bye.

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