E033 - Stephanie Johnson and Kristina Komlosiova from Pollen + Grace

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Compare Your Footprint, sponsoring the Green Element Podcast. So today we've got Pollen and Grace. They are a green produce healthy food for you to eat. I guess that's the best way to put it. Welcome to the Green Element Podcast. Thank you guys, Pollen and Grace. Please do introduce yourselves and let us know who you are.

Okay, I'm Steph.

And I'm Chris.

And we are from Pollen and Grace. At Pollen and Grace, we are a, I guess, 100% natural healthy food company. We make quite an extensive range of healthy food-to-go options that you can find across some specialty supermarkets like Whole Foods in London, but you can also get us nationwide through Ocado.

Yeah, we're working on quite a few kind of national retailers, so we're expanding outside of London boundaries very, very soon, which is exciting. As Steph said, we basically have a range of fresh, healthy food to go, so we cover pretty much every single meal in a day. So we have breakfasts, lunches, dinners, and then also snacks to keep you going.

And I guess the reason why we've done that is, as a business, our overall mission is to, I guess, change the way that people have healthy foods and, I guess, change the way that people eat as well. So our core aim is to be accessible.

Exactly. Our mission is to make healthy food accessible, enjoyable, affordable and just get people to understand it a little bit better. So it's a kind of break the myth of healthy is boring and not necessarily tasty. Yeah, it's like that.

Brilliant.

We have 100% natural and we are predominantly plant-based and we're always free from wheat, gluten, and dairy.

That's quite an important part.

Okay, so who are your Main customers? I mean, do you— what shops are you in? And tell us more about who tends to buy your stuff, or is it anyone?

So we are based in London. So I guess we are, I guess, 3 and a half years old now, and we started basically cooking from my kitchen in Hammersmith, yeah, 3 and a half years ago. So our roots are really in London. You can find us in most corners of the city. In the likes of Whole Foods, As Nature Intended, Source Markets, a lot of boutique fitness studios. We also work with a lot of offices, so a lot of lucky companies will find us in their office canteens.

Yeah, we do quite a bit of food service.

Yeah, exactly, in kind of Canary Wharf and the City.

More recently, we've expanded. We are now available nationwide via Ocado, so you can order our food for your home delivery. And then our ambient range is also available at WHSmith. So we're kind of going a little bit further out of London and just expanding our reach, which is exciting.

Brilliant, that's really, really cool. So how do you guys know each other? Have you known each other for years, or did you work together?

Yeah, many, many years.

Yeah, yeah, we're trying not to add them up.

At our previous job, we were both event managers before Polin. we would always work on a project together. Seb would look after one half and me after the other half.

And yeah, it worked so well that we decided to run a business together.

So why Pollen and Grace?

Well, I guess the name actually stands for our business values, so probably fits in very nicely with your messaging as well. Pollen stands for our food values. So pollen is a building block of all So it comes back to our 100% natural values. Everything we make is always 100% natural. And then grace is our holistic value. So to have grace in the way that we operate the company, the way that we treat our customers, our suppliers, the environment, pretty much everyone.

Yeah, each other.

Exactly.

Most times.

Exactly, Star. That's an important one.

So what would you say your purpose was? So tell us a bit about your mission and purpose and what you're— I mean, you've talked about the healthy eating. Is, you know, what— yeah, tell us more about that.

So I guess as we said before, our mission has always been to change the way that people perceive healthy food and to make genuinely healthy food, not just healthy food that's marketed as healthy, accessible but also exciting. And I guess that's the reason why we've gone down the route that we have and the reason why we have such a broad product range so that we can be part of people's daily lives, but also the reason why we've gone down the retail path that we have.

With grab-and-go.

Exactly, with grab-and-go.

We basically felt that there is still quite a big gap in the markets where there are just no healthy, free-from, and delicious options that you can just run out of your office, buy, and eat at your desk.

And also trust. Trust is a big thing for us as well. So when—

More recently though, There's been news about companies that probably, you know, are now— the level of trust is maybe decreasing.

So what we put in our products is very important to us.

So it's always, like Steph said before, 100% natural, and we have the credentials of actually making healthy food because of the ingredients that we use, the nutrition that's behind the product, rather than just, you know, a little bit of marketing. Yeah.

What would you say your business superpower was?

That's a tough one.

How do we choose?

Maybe you could have one, you could talk about one each.

I think it's about delivering what we actually say we deliver. So just being truthful about the product and have the credentials.

And then I think also making a 100% natural, fresh product that's actually healthy and exciting and can be delivered all across the UK or sit on the shelves of stores right across the UK is quite a logistically complicated business and hasn't really been done in the way that we do it now.

So basically just never giving up and persistence is probably key because— When we first started, we didn't really know how to run a fresh food business and how to, you know, And everything, so we kind of learned as we went along.

But also, I think a lot of people would have said that the way that we do things, it wouldn't have been possible to do it, but it is.

So yeah, I think it's just sticking by what we believe is right.

They do say that the best people to start businesses, for example, like yours, are people that have never done it before or have never worked in it, because you'll just do what you think is the right thing to do. And everyone's like, oh, how does that work? Oh wow, because you're looking at it not with any kind of preconceived ideas.

To be honest, it's actually a blessing in disguise sometimes. Yeah, it can sometimes be quite tough, but actually it's—

yeah, we've been told many, many times that what we do is impossible and the way we do it shouldn't be like that, and we're just like, well, it works for us, so we're just going to continue.

Brilliant. How do you engage your staff, suppliers, and customers with your mission and purpose?

Well, I think since the very beginning, we've always been quite clear about what our vision, mission, and purpose is. As you can tell by the company name, it makes it quite simple to keep everyone reminded. So I think it's, yeah, for us, We're quite transparent about it with our suppliers and our team.

It's very dominant in our business values, in the way that the business is run.

In every step.

In every aspect of Pollen, basically. We've been since day one, we tend to educate our customers. We always educate our staff about what is it that we produce, what ingredients we're using.

Why we do it that way. Yeah.

The same goes Back to our suppliers. Some of the suppliers that we work right now with, we would commission them to source some ingredients for us and then basically teach them why we want them and what they are, what they will be used for.

Exactly.

And then in terms of customers, our whole kind of social media is revolving around us educating people about what is it that we're doing and why we do it that way.

I guess we probably put ourselves kind of at the forefront of kind of trends or innovation. We're always kind of ahead of the curve, and that kind of brings its own challenges with trying to get kind of the market to understand kind of what you're doing. You know, for example, we were out with probiotic products, you know, a good year before they started to kind of creep into kind of the rest of the market. And that was a challenge. So yeah, education has always been key for us. And if you can have a look at our social media, our website, our blog, it's always—

Blog.

It's always been about educating.

And when you're running an ethical and sustainable business like yourselves, you've just talked about some of the struggles. Can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome them and the sort of things that you've come up against?

Well, first and foremost, it's just about, you know, keep going.

Yeah, just put your head down and keep going.

Because even when there seems like there's nothing, it's an impossible situation, there is always, always, always a way to get through. If you want it enough, I think it's probably good.

Surround yourselves with people that can help and support and just be super resourceful. I think that's what has been one of our main kind of advantages. We tend to just find a solution to problems that we are faced with. Probably one of the key challenges that we're facing at the moment would be packaging. I'm sure you know that plastics are not great. Unfortunately, there isn't really a solution that Commercially available, yes. Commercially available for us to use them for as a food-to-go business. So that's something we're still working on and looking for the best possible solution.

But I guess we understand in that situation that we know what our dream solution is. It's not available yet, but if we keep pushing for it, then we can help shape the industry.

Our dream solution? Well, our dream solution would be to have 100% biodegradable packaging that is also sturdy, tamper-proof, airtight, can show the product so it's transparent.

Yeah.

So yeah, I mean, it's—

The list goes on.

Not sure if that will be possible anytime soon, but there'll be certain compromises we'll have to make.

But yeah, at the moment, Forgive me for my ignorance because I am not in your industry, but you know how you have plastic bottles, for example? It's a different type of plastic for the lid, different type of plastic for the wrapper, different type of plastic for the bottle. Is that something you address when you're doing it? So at least it's all the same plastics that are recycled?

This is—

I'm actually really glad you brought that up. I think it comes down to education of the, well, the wider kind of industry, but also of customers.

Of just public.

Yeah, the general public on plastic.

There's a lot of misinformation and kind of misunderstanding in regards to plastics as well. People are not entirely sure what's actually recyclable, what isn't, and how to recycle. Exactly like you say, not everyone knows that some lids are not recyclable in the same way that the bottles would be. Our packaging, every single pot and lid is exactly the same material, so everything is Basically the same recycle method. And then all of our sleeves are just cardboard, basically. So again, the same thing. So in that sense, we do as well as we can, the best possible solution that we can find at the moment.

And do you look at the inks as well that you use on the cardboard? Is that something that's—

That is the next level. We're currently working on that. So we are reworking our sleeves and our printing and also our wrappers on our ambient range.

Exactly. So the ambient range is actually slightly easier. We should be launching in Q1 next year with completely recyclable packaging for the bars, which is quite kind of new to the market as well.

That's interesting.

That's the other thing is I think a lot of people will think if something is plastic, it means it's recyclable, but it doesn't mean that it necessarily is. So we've spent the last 6 months trying to find kind of the right recyclable film that we can use for our dessert bars. that will fit into kind of mainstream recycling. So it makes it easier for the customer because at the end of the day, if things aren't recyclable by kind of mainstream methods, they're not going to end up where they need to. And, you know, it just contributes to the problem.

Yes, it's such— I find waste fascinating, the way that, you know, just the way that it's all working out. And it's been brilliant. I mean, We can't mention— we can't not mention David Attenborough and what he has done for plastics. And it's looking at companies and looking at the questions that we're now asked, it's become such a main question for everyone in all companies, you know, plastics, what can we do? How can we do it? What, you know, and the fact that we're now getting plastic-free supermarkets and—

Yeah. There's a lot of unnecessary plastic consumption.

Oh, absolutely. We interviewed Martin Baxter for IEMA. It's coming out in a couple of weeks, and he was talking about the new Environment Act, because he's one of the chief policymakers on that. And they're very much looking at the duty of care and putting the onus on the top end as opposed to the consumer, which should have happened a long time ago, but at least it's starting to happen now, which is brilliant.

The way it's got to go is it's got to be pushed from the top because the, I guess, the options need to be available. The manufacturers need to be able to offer the solutions so that it's filtered through the chain. Exactly. And down to the end consumer, which the demand is there now. So it's only a matter of time.

A couple of years ago, people were looking at us weirdly. And now when we ask the questions, people are like, oh yeah, okay, like you're our millionth customer that's asking for exactly the same thing.

So hopefully It's hugely beneficial to you, I would imagine, to be ahead of the curve on something like that, particularly if legislation is changing, because you don't need to change your company structure. I would imagine there's going to be an awful lot of— I mean, I don't know the ins and outs of what's going to happen, but you're best placed to— we're not going to change our structure, but there probably are going to be companies that have to change their whole structure and the way they manufacture. in the future?

Well, I guess on that kind of point, there is so much that we can do internally as well. I guess the end product in its kind of grab-and-go portion is just the last piece of the puzzle that kind of ends up with the consumer. But a lot of it as well is how we work here in our kitchen and how we work with our suppliers delivering to us and basically how we run our whole operation. So we've, from the beginning, we've always kind of naturally looked to to be as sustainable as is possible on the production side of things. So as a company, we're actually zero to landfill. So we work with a waste company that can offer us that support so that nothing that we use ever goes into landfill. And we're actually a zero food waste company as well.

So the way we produce is basically we use all of the ingredients that we order. So we have a very We're short and strict production cycles, so we have essentially no food waste. And if there is something, we tend to eat it before it starts blanching.

Is that hard?

Pardon?

Is that hard? Is that hard to do?

No. So how we work, basically, we produce to order. So we know exactly what we are producing for deliveries on the next day, on each day. We are very good at forecasting and basically producing exactly what we need to produce, and if there is any food waste, we eat it. That's not hard, it's actually very enjoyable.

Brilliant. If you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners which could help them with their purpose, what would that be?

Well, I guess it depends on what your purpose is.

It depends on what the purpose is, but I think it's just always remembering the purpose and always If there is an important question or a decision you have to make, just go back to the core value of your business and make sure that it's always aligned.

Okay, and when it comes to reducing your environmental impact and carbon footprint of your business, what would you say your biggest challenge or frustration is?

It would be the end consumer packaging.

Exactly, consumer packaging. It's the fact that there isn't a solution that's sustainable enough. But we're hoping now that all the big guys are looking for the same solution that we are, it will basically—

it will get better. It will only get better from here.

Yeah.

So 2019 looks like an exciting year on that front.

Do you carbon footprint your packaging and your whole supply chain, or do you go into that much detail?

Well, look, as much as we can from— as a small business.

As a small business, we try to streamline our whole supply chain. So in terms of deliveries coming into us and then also us supplying our clients to make sure that we are as efficient as we possibly can be.

Also, as we are predominantly a vegan company, so everything we make is vegan, we're only working with kind of plant-based ingredients. So obviously that has a natural impact on our carbon footprint.

Can you tell us a bit about how you approach your environmental management in Pollen and Grace as a whole? I mean, what sort of things do you do or think about with your actual company running?

We've grown quite quickly over the last 3 and a half years, so we evolved so quickly that it's almost a step-by-step process. We're not a big company where everyone sits down around a boardroom and thinks about our environmental policy. It's more about us kind of taking a step-by-step approach every time we're kind of growing or developing to make sure that we use the best possible solution. And that kind of comes back to the fact that we know what our values are.

The fact that being sustainable and environmentally friendly is such a big part of our core values, It's just been embedded in the business since day one. So I think it's just learning how to take the right decision when we have to expand and grow.

Yeah.

Okay.

Is there any advice or learning that you'd like to share with anyone listening to this podcast?

Oh, I guess on environment or business?

Why don't you do one of each?

On business, I guess. Wow, there's so many.

I know, it's very broad.

There are so many things we can talk about, but I think it's just, yeah, stick to your values and don't let anyone tell you that whatever you're trying to do is impossible because there's always a way to do it. There's always a way to do it, and if you actually find out, find the way to do it, and you will be one of the first people to do it, you'll be very successful as well.

So, and then in terms of environment, I guess for us it's just about being very clear about what you're trying to do.

Yeah, very transparent about what you do and also educate people what is that you're doing and how they can follow.

Education is probably the most important thing.

So when it comes again to our packaging, we educate our customers that It's not only recyclable, but it's also reusable. So I know it's just a minor little thing, but actually it can make a difference.

Yeah, education is so hard, isn't it? We've just launched a piece of software, and one of the things is it's carbon footprinting any organization. But we were talking about education on the back of that and how we can help companies understand why you should carbon footprint everything? And, you know, do we educate them on the fact that we now need to look at only having a 1.5-degree rise in global warming? You know, what— how do we educate people to understand the ramifications of not being environmental? What is it that, you know— and I don't know the answer to these questions. At all. And we're talking about them as a team trying to, you know, if we need— if we are trying to get as many organizations and as many people to be as environmental or sustainable as possible, you know, the media is doing an alrightish job, I guess.

It's improving.

It's improving, but they're only showing one aspect of the story in terms of, you know, as you were mentioning. Exactly. As you were mentioning before about David Attenborough and the war on plastics that has come up since then, absolutely been amazing because it's gotten people thinking. But there hasn't been the education within the system and the media to then support how we can actually work with this in an environmentally positive way.

Take action.

Exactly. Yeah.

Education, education. It is all about education. I mean, we use all the possible channels that we have. As a small business, our resources are quite limited, but yeah, all of our communication would be pretty much dedicated to educating people and just— yeah, we help to kind of trigger change.

Oh, it's hard. It's really hard. I think you're doing a really, really good job, so well done, guys. Thank you so much for talking to us today. Thanks for having us. Is there a way that we can connect with you and learn more and understand about who you are?

We are always on Instagram. Our handle is just @pollenandgrace, or by our website, which is pollenandgrace.com.

You can sign up for our newsletter. We have a weekly newsletter where we talk about everything that we're making and what's happening in the business, but also outside of the business. Yes, that's probably the best way.

Brilliant, brilliant. Thank you so much. Thank you for your time today, and that's been brilliant.

Thank you for having us.

I'll stop that now. I was just listening to you and we were talking about the education. I wonder, have you thought about doing webinars or on how you do the packaging, because we're going down a webinar route at the moment and moving them into masterclasses, and I wonder if you'd be interested in doing a joint webinar on the supply chain and the packaging and what it is that you put into it. I don't know, do you think people would want to watch something like that or listen to it?

It depends on who it is. I think packaging is, with any With any packaging like this is, I think, really key. For food to go, it's much harder than, say, other industries. If we had our own cafe, you know, then there are things that can be done. But definitely, it's a question that's hot at the moment. So I'd say there are definitely, definitely people out there that are interested.

Quite niche, I would imagine.

It is quite niche, but—

The problem is that there is also actually not a huge amount we can talk about because there are not that many solutions that are available widely right now, especially for food to come to the States. It's much more available for beauty products.

Exactly. I think the interesting point is educating on what is actually the best environmentally friendly option that's available now. So people, you'll see kind of all over Instagram, people saying, oh, our packaging is just made of vegetables, you know, it's all natural.

It's compostable.

Exactly, where this and that actually— it's got to go into a commercial composter for it to actually be compostable. There is no real composting facilities set up in the UK. It's not part of our daily lives. So actually it's just as bad as plastic. So by making that choice, it's, you know, it's a miseducation to the consumer.

It'd be quite interesting just to kind of call some of the markets Yes, that actually are not making anything more eco-friendly. It's just basically a sales tool. Yeah.

So you still think that's actually going on?

Oh, it's 100% going on.

I would say so, yeah.

Hugely, hugely, yeah.

And I wonder how you could— because naming and shaming and doing and badmouthing people is a really bad way to do business. I really don't want to do that. But I wonder if there's a way that you can do it without actually doing it, if that makes sense. So talking about the issues that are in place and letting people come to the conclusions that you want them to come to.

Yeah, well, I think it's just highlighting kind of what the different options are out there and what it means if you're looking at PET plastic, PLA plastic, compostable, biodegradable, recyclable. What do they mean? What actually—

What do you need to do to actually You know, make them recyclable, make them compostable. Like, what does it mean for you as a consumer? What do you need to do?

And that's probably the most important message as well, because that's what we found was that people don't know what to do.

So if someone says— Don't buy something in compostable packaging, but where is it going? Where is it going?

It's not going anywhere.

Yeah, not going to end up in a commercial composter.

Have you thought about doing an infographic or something like that on why you've gone down the packaging route that you've gone to as a part of your education piece? Because that would be a way of educating people, but also it would be a way of having other people understand that you have gone through that process and you do understand.

It would be actually very interesting to explain it in an infographic.

We've definitely talked about it on social, in emails, on our blog, Probably not in infographic form, actually. It'd be interesting. Yeah, that's definitely something to chat to Kerry about.

Yeah, because I reckon that would be a really— I do think people would download it, but I would imagine your customers will absolutely. But your future customers probably would as well. They'll learn more about how it works because people are interested in it more.

Oh, completely. I think that's a message that will never get old.

Definitely food for thought.

Thanks guys, thank you so much for today.

No worries at all, thank you for having us.

I will email you a link and it's a way that if you could put your Twitter handles, Instagram, etc. on it and your logo, etc. I'll do that.

Send that off to Kerry, she will sort that and do all the social bits and pieces on our side as well.

Brilliant, awesome, thank you.

Thank you, have a good day.

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