E034 - Tessa Tricks from Hubbub

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Today we've got Tessa from Hubbub on the show. She works for a charity that creates environmental campaigns Tessa, welcome to the Green Element Podcast. Thank you so much for coming on. I'm really looking forward to finding out more about Hubbub and what you guys are doing and how you are changing the world that we know it.

Well, thank you for having me. Pleasure to be here.

So tell us a bit about your business and what your purpose is and who you work with.

So first thing to say that Hubbub is a charity and We create quite positive, playful environmental campaigns, and we really kind of seek to inspire people to make healthier, greener choices in their lives. We started in 2014 really with the ambition of engaging a mainstream audience with environmental issues, and largely by not talking about the environment. We often find that environmentalism and kind of living quite a normal life are pitted against one another in common narratives, and people tend to feel that if they want to do something good for the planet, then they have to give up their cars or their holidays or go and live in the woods. So for us, it's very kind of key to get cut through, to talk about things that are really relevant to people's day-to-day. So we theme our work around food, fashion, homes, and neighborhoods, and these form the basis Mm-hmm. So in terms of kind of how we go about that and who we work with, I mean, we really kind of appreciate that reaching a mainstream audience means having the right partners, and where possible, we use businesses as kind of— we use their reach as a force for good and tap into their audiences. with timely, relevant messages. So we very much talk about the environmental actions in terms of benefits to the individual. So that might be, you can save money if you're not reducing this food, or you can come along to this workshop and learn new skills. And that's not to say that we ignore the environmental benefits, but often use them to enforce the message, as opposed to being the primary motivator. OK.

Okay, and you work with organisations and the general public, don't you?

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, you know, collaboration and co-design are quite central to our principles, and I think the scale of climate change means that we need action taken at every level, and that organisations, governments, individuals all need to pull together. We're a small organisation, we can't change the world on our own, so So, you know, we know that brands have a huge potential to shape the thoughts and actions of their following, and so where possible we try and tie in with them. But we also work a lot with community groups, academic partners, local authorities, individuals, universities, you name it. I think it depends on the campaign and our ambitions, and then we try and find the right partners. Yeah, I think that's a really good point. strategic partners to bring on board with knowledge and reach.

And what would you say your charity superpower is?

I think, well, I would say that our charity superpower is finding the right message and action for the right audience, so that kind of doing the right thing for the environment at that point is compelling but also quite simple. And so for us, we feel it's about having authentic, timely conversations that people can identify with. We tend to— I guess what we are good at, I'd like to say, is kind of finding eye-catching, kind of fun communication methods, whether that's video, art, installation, and then supporting these with a range of nudge techniques. And then Really trying to do what we can to take that kind of nudge towards a kind of think, so that people then begin to feel that doing the right thing can be for them and it becomes part of their decision-making process.

Okay, and do you find with the different campaigns that you run there is a difference between general public and organisations, even though the general public work in the organisations? You know, so I'm just curious because they're kind of the same people, aren't they? But do you find it's—

Yeah.

You need to do different things?

Yeah, I mean, we do do a lot of employee engagement, and I think so, which, which is interesting. So when you're working with these organizations thinking, yeah, it starts first at home, and the idea is that messaging is kind of aspirational enough that everyone can get on board with it. So I hope— does that answer your question?

Yeah, it does. I just— and I guess it comes down to the fact that within an organisation you sit within a structure, and then general public don't really sit within a structure, do they? They are their own structure, as it were. on trying to be more environmental. So I'm thinking about your cigarette campaign that you had on the streets in central London, and that would be very different to, say, your fishing boats that Grant Thornton use to pick up litter in the Thames. I mean, it's a different psyche, isn't it? And it must be really interesting to see that different, having to deal with the same consequences, i.e., reducing environmental impact, but in different ways.

Absolutely, and I think that's what's key about finding the right message for the right person. So with the ballot bin that you were referring to, so we were trying to reduce littering on Villiers Street between Charing Cross and Embankment back in 2014, and we're trialling a range of different things to see what would bring the litter count down. And we just kind of took a step back and thought, okay, well, who are the biggest causes of litterers? What are they throwing away and where are they? And it was young drunk men outside the pub. So then you think, okay, well, what are they interested in? And it's the time of the Euros, so you think football. And that kind of led us to develop a ballot bin. So you have your cigarette, And then once you've got the— but instead of throwing it on the floor, actually in front of you is a bright yellow voting bin. So you can— and it says, who's the best player in the world, Ronaldo or Messi? You pop it in and you've voted and you're off.

Who won?

Who won? At the time, I think— yeah, good question. Messi was—

Was it? Not that full of football, to be honest with you.

Yeah.

How do you— and you've talked about this a bit— about engaging your— they're not really staff, suppliers, or customers. I guess they're customers for the most part, aren't they? How do you engage them? How do you come up with campaigns? What sort of, you know, Tell us, talk us through the process of what you do.

Yeah, okay. Well, I think it's— what's quite crucial is when trying to tap into people's immediate concerns and thinking about what makes them tick, you know, you also need to think about some of the external forces that are at play and kind of shaping the stories that we're telling ourselves about, about the world, and also kind of setting the priorities priorities for the day. So as you can see with David Attenborough and Blue Planet, we've suddenly got huge furore around plastics that wasn't really here a year ago. And so suddenly, you know, that's much more compelling to businesses, but also to householders, everyman on the street as well. So I think when we go about it, it's very much about kind of defining what is the problem, and then, yeah, who are we looking at? So quite recently, I lead on our food work here at Abub, and one of the things that we've, you know, there's no two ways about it, we really need to reduce the amount of meat that we're eating. So this is a kind of gargantuan problem, and meat eating is so personal to people, and, you know, it's deeply ingrained in their identity and their culture, and everyone's got a slightly slightly different stance. And so it's then thinking, okay, well, how are we going to make an impact? And for us, the response was to be really highly targeted. So thinking, okay, well, who are the largest consumers of meat and kind of why? And how can we work with the external forces at play? So we targeted kind of young gym-going men who were very much trying to conform to a muscular ideal. But also for them, protein is a real buzzword and a driver. And for them, it means being kind of lean and fit. And so for us, we'd also done— I mean, we base all of our campaigns on research and insights. Everything will start with a big research period as well. And what we'd found from our research, which was partnership with the University of Southampton, was that people are really not very savvy to where plant-based protein is found. So we thought for the guys that we're working with, we set them a challenge to halve their meat their meat consumption and replace that with plant-based proteins. And so within that, it was very specific. It was quite measurable. And we then provided them with the support that they'd need to introduce plant-based proteins into their diet, so recipes and meal plans. And we helped them measure it. So we gave them all kind of garments so they could see how their health improved. And we gave them all body composition analysis at the beginning and sat them down with a nutritional practitioner. So I think that support package really worked to incentivize them to take part. But then once they got on board with it and they could see that they were feeling better and actually they were eating, it actually led them to eat more vegetables all around. And they had all of these kind of positive repercussions for their health and well-being. So that kind of spurred them on. So we had a 2-month challenge period. And then after 2 months, again, 80% of people had carried on significantly. significantly reducing their meat intake. So I hope that kind of provides an example of how we kind of work through things and how it's finding the right message, but then that support mechanism to foster long-term behaviour change.

Out of curiosity, when did you do that?

We started it in March, ended it in May, and released the results.

Will you do a follow-up to find out of those people how many people are eating, say, meet or following the program a year on or something like that?

Yeah, very much so. We're still in close contact with them. So we did a 2-month follow-up, but I think a year would be really interesting. So now we're looking, okay, well, how can we, how can we take this to a wider audience? You know, what are you going to do? Can you do men and women together? And I think what was really unexpected within this was that the challenge led our guys to do a kind of me MOT. So they started drinking more water, they were diversifying their diets, they were saying they were sleeping better, they were feeling better, they were getting to know colleagues better. So suddenly you think, okay, well, this is a really interesting thing for employee well-being.

Mm-hmm.

Do businesses want to work with us to support their colleagues and employees to kind of have healthier, more sustainable lifestyles with benefits for their well-being and productivity. So all of these things, it's very, yeah, interesting unexpected outcomes which also have, you know, key environmental benefits.

Yeah, so when it comes to running an ethical and sustainable charity like yourselves, What would you say has been the biggest struggle so far, and can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome it?

Yeah, I think that the hardest part is really ensuring that your values stick even when times are quite difficult financially. It can sometimes be tempting to follow the money even though it might take you away from the core purpose, so I think we've really found that though it can be nerve-wracking, it is important to kind of hold your nerve and Stick to your core principles, which we're all very culturally on board with, and every staff member knows what they are. We just really try to plan ahead as much as we can, which is difficult in the current pre-Brexit landscape, and just always try and be as transparent as possible as we can with employees and partners.

Okay. If you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners which could help them with their purpose, what would that be?

I think that would really be to agree your values upfront and stick to them through thick and thin. Really, the best way to do this is kind of creating a narrative that reinforces those values to ensure that they are really repeatedly shared with employees. And, you know, storytelling is key within that, but kind of just shaping an aligned vision really within the Hubbub team so that we all understand what the bigger goal is.

Do you, um, with— because you are really all about behaviour change, aren't you, as an organisation? Would that be fair to say?

Yeah, absolutely.

Environmental change organisation. And I wonder if there's a piece around values in behavior change and the values that people hold on work that they do in organizations. I'm just, I'm kind of, I'm thinking about it from a kind of a selfish point of view, but of how do organizations want to become more, why do organizations want to become more environmental. And it's something that's talked about a lot, is, you know, and it is a mixture of everything, but that comes down— a lot of it comes down to the values of that organization. And in order to make or help ensure more organizations become more environmental, then that would be a part of it, would be the values.

And I'm just wondering if there's a piece around I think that's really it, and I think it's having the values and making sure that those values are really embedded within the organization. And, you know, it's— yeah, if you're looking at it from a kind of brand perspective, then it comes back to that level of kind of authenticity, doesn't it?

Mm-hmm.

We ran a 3-year campaign with IKEA called Liv Lagom, which is— lagom is a Swedish word for balance. I guess in Swedish it can be quite puritanical, but I think with the alliteration and tying in with trends of kind of mindfulness and decluttering, it really struck a chord with the group that we were working with, and actually people started or it's not denying yourself what you love but not taking more than you need. And we worked with IKEA, kind of the sustainability team, but also IKEA co-workers who were employees who were all, you know, from all levels of the business. You know, they might be driving the truck in the distribution warehouse, they might be on the shop floor, they might be in marketing, they might be working in the IKEA restaurant. And we trained those guys up to be what we called Liv Lagom leaders. So they were champions for the project, which was very much about how can you live more sustainably at home through reducing water, energy, reducing waste, etc. Quite basic things, but it was one, bringing them on board with the story and actually being able to say that IKEA walks the talk and they have a people, planet, positive sustainability strategy. And this is— but actually, this is how it works for you in your day-to-day life, and you're creating a better world for your children. And that, you know, without having to go and live in the woods, as kind of alluded to earlier. And I think it's that sense of everyone seeing the value in it at each level.

Okay, when it comes to reducing your own environmental impact within Hubbub and the carbon footprint of the charity, what What would you say your biggest challenge or frustration was or is?

Yeah, I think it's— we, our office is in Somerset House, so a wonderful building in central London that, to be fair, does quite a lot in terms of environmental management. Unfortunately, we do have a kind of lack of food waste bins. But we have a kind of Somerset House environmental committee, so there's a few different things that are being moved through at the moment. So they're starting wormeries, which is exciting. I like it. But, you know, there is— yeah, there are limits on— it's like we're renters, you know, and I think that's what's difficult, isn't it? If you live in rented accommodation, you think, oh well, I wouldn't be able to get solar panels, or I can't do this, or I can't do this. And so I guess we do have frustrations because we don't have full autonomy over what we can do with our premises.

But you are the clients as well. That's what we tell our clients, is you, you know, you have some kind of— um, it's hard though. It is really hard. And it's, it's a question that a lot of smaller organizations, it's not so much that they struggle with the answer, but it's more What can we do? And we talked about this before, and it's doing as much as you possibly can is as much as you can do.

Hmm.

I remember a client of ours, a very small client, they were— they couldn't work out whether to buy a secondhand colour photocopier or a new one. And they were going backwards and forwards. They did lifecycle analysis, they did all this stuff, and they were like, oh, we can't work out which one's better because the new ones are more energy efficient, And better, the older ones aren't. And my answer to them was, you're kind of doing it. You've already answered the question, haven't you? The fact that you're thinking about it means that you're already becoming more environmental. And it's, it's that process, isn't it, of trying to be more green is almost as good as— it's not almost as good, but it is, it's a part of that process.

Yeah, that's a brilliant example. Absolutely. And I think, as I say, as kind of all the tenants coming together and taking part in this kind of committee has led to a huge amount of change. And so I think we have all collectively raised the bar. So coffee cup granules are coming from the restaurants and being used to grow mushrooms, which are then provided back to the restaurants. Coffee cup recycling has been set up quite recently off the back of a Hubbub campaign where we set up the infrastructure for coffee cup recycling in the Square Mile of London. So yeah, there's, there's all sorts of things happening, and I think we're really, I guess, fortuitous to be surrounded by kind of other like-minded tenants. But I think, as you say, it's just starting that conversation and thinking, thinking that you have some power to change things.

What Is there any advice or learning that you'd like to share with anyone listening to this podcast? Maybe take us through a campaign that really stands out in your mind and what you've taken from it, maybe personally or as an organisation.

Well, I think as an organisation, and I guess this kind of comes to life in our campaigns, So it's kind of following the principles of being a lean startup. So we very much seek to gain insight, learn fast and cheaply, and then refine that quite rapidly and then scale up the successful elements. And then hope that this goes, goes well and then give them away so they can go on to have a life of their own. So I think it's just to draw back to the example of Meet Your Match, the campaign with the men in the gym, it's, you know, doing that huge research piece with academic partners, sitting with that and thinking, okay, well, how can we take this into a behaviour change campaign? Doing some quick sense check pilots like this one, and then now we'll refine it and we'll try and take it to other organisations. organisations and other audiences, but also using kind of social media and the media to get the message out there as much as we can. And that comes back down to finding the right kind of hook at the right time, whether that's plastics or pumpkins at Halloween. And yeah, this— I think this has worked well for us on an organisational level, but also for each of our campaigns.

Would you say the media is becoming more receptive now to environmental matters?

I think so, yes. If there's a positive story as well, that's key.

Do you think the general public are becoming more receptive to environmental matters?

Oh, good question. I mean, depending which survey you read, I think actually—

From your own experience?

My own experience, yeah. Well, again, I think it's if, you know, if you can say here is something that you can do today off the back of it that's really simple so that people don't feel fatalistic and that they do feel empowered to get involved, whether, you know, you can bring your own coffee cup and that will contribute hugely towards the mountain, but also you'll save 50p at coffee shop X at the same time, then people are on board, you know. It's small incremental things, but it does then, as you say, pave the way for that future decision-making where they're faced with their printers and suddenly they realize that these things matter to them and that's who they are and they can be an environmentalist without feeling that they're hippie or—

Yeah, are you, um, you've got a really good campaign at the moment in Leeds, haven't you?

Leeds by Example.

It's brilliant, I love that. When I saw it, I was like, that's so cool. Could you tell us a bit about what you're doing there?

Yeah, sure. So, um, we're working with the City of Leeds, um, to see what we can do to reduce single-use plastics, but kind of, or increase recycling disposables on the go because we're such a transient society now, specifically with food consumption. So we've got council, businesses, universities on board, and we're just piloting a range of different fun things to see You know, is it kind of a bubble bin, or, you know, what can you do in terms of installations, fun poster campaigns, bin messaging? Yeah, just playing around with a number of different things to see what works, with the ambition that we can get other towns and cities to take those learnings on board and try them themselves.

And then finally, Organizations, because obviously this podcast is also aimed at either business owners or people that work in organizations that want to be more environmental. I know one of my team members went on a boat with Grant Thornton, a client of ours, a couple of weeks ago. That's been really popular, hasn't it?

That has been really popular. So yes, we have plastic fishing, which is open to any organization to do a kind of away day, which I think really helps people to get to grips with the issue of marine plastics in the most fun way by going out on the Thames with fishing nets and seeing what you can find. And I think it's connecting that dot between, oh, I've carelessly dropped my bottle on the floor. We're in central London, and before you know it, the wind blows and it's in the Thames, and before you know it, it's out in the sea. Yeah, it's a great kind of fun team-building activity that's supported by a really nice introduction to the issue, but really gets everyone stuck in with fishing plastic out of the Thames on what I should say is A plastic boat made from recycled plastic.

Brilliant. Are you running a competition of giving it away? Is that right? No?

Perhaps. You never know. Things move fast at Hubbub, and, you know, we're a busy team. I may have missed that one.

Usually me that gets everything wrong, so don't worry, just completely ignore that.

But what I would say is that any organisation, probably the first thing to do is sign up to our mailing list, and we also have a blog. And yeah, it's a great way to kind of keep on top of our campaigns and learn how you could be involved. Because yeah, we are very open to partnering on campaigns, exploring new problems, or doing a range of different employee engagement initiatives from food to plastic fishing.

Brilliant. So you've just touched upon this— how can we learn about what you do more? What's your website? We'll be putting all the links on the show notes as well.

Great. Well, I think go to hubhub.org.uk and And if you sign up to the mailing list there, you'll be kept in the know with all of our campaigns and opportunities.

Brilliant. Thank you so much today, Tessa, for this. It's been really interesting listening to what you're doing at Hubbub. And yeah, thank you so much.

No, thank you. Absolute pleasure. Have a nice afternoon.

You too.

Bye.

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