E084 - Dhiraj Sharma from 8mango

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Welcome back to the Green Element Podcast, where we feature business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable. I'm your host, Will Richardson, and I can't wait to meet our guest today and help you on your journey of sustainability. I'm going to be welcoming Dhiraj from 8mango.com today. He is an artist that produces waste out of art out of waste. And over the last 14 years, he has used over 70 kilograms worth of waste. And a lot of them are small pieces. He makes corporate art gifts and he makes really unique gifts for unique occasions. And I've seen some of them and they are brilliant. And I just love the ingenuity and the thought process and the skill level that you have to be able to do what he does. So I hope you enjoy the podcast. Dhiraj, welcome to the Green Element Podcast.

Thank you for having me.

No, that's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. Your company business is apemango.com. It's a brilliant name, but an even better Because in your words, you're a junk art company. Please explain more about what it is that you do.

It started like, uh, with a small pile of junk when I started in my home with some handful of domestic junk, that is leftover pieces of landline phone and all. That is how I got started. I created some artifact and people around me appreciated, and that is how I got carried away. And eventually, like every year there was some opportunity to showcase my work and more and more people started appreciating and noticing what I'm doing. And I think then this whole concept of sustainability was not in the picture. This is, I think, 10 years back or something. And now, now I think it's become word of mouth. Like I create junk art out of junk and This is now, it's a fad and it's, it's a happening term like recycle and reuse. So yeah, now people are much more aware than they were previously. And I create artifacts for corporates. It could be takeaway miniatures or it could be large-scale installations for their lobbies and their spaces. So the idea is to make people aware that what you see as junk has more to it. If at all it can't be recycled, it can definitely be upcycled to something new that they couldn't imagine. So that is the whole theme of Fate Mango.

And this is going to sound like a really stupid question, possibly. What is a normal thing that you make your art out of, or is there no such thing as a normal piece of waste item?

So it's difficult to create art all the time. So one challenge is, uh, not many people are actually directly interested in art. So what we do is we create utility items such as lamps and table clocks using junk. I mean, apart from the machine, the clock machine, the entire thing could be, say for example, one for one of the events that happened last year in Bangalore. So the theme was refurbished electronic items and what we could produce from our side, we created mementos for them which were created using waste CDs, discarded CDs. So we came up with the idea of creating desktop clocks, and the dial display was used as a CD. So I think— one sec, I'll just show you the picture. I have one.

Oh, it's a shame this is audio because—

Okay, okay, okay.

But I can see it, rather selfishly.

Definitely.

I'll be able to see it. That's brilliant, that's brilliant. I mean, maybe you could send us a picture of it so we can put it up on the website so that people can see it.

Definitely, I'll do that.

And what's the largest thing that you've, you've made? Because you said that you have made some really large items.

So one of my engagements was with TEDx, that is TEDx Hyderabad, which happened 2 years back. So I came up with this idea, like nowadays, hardly people, especially the radiologists, they don't use the old X-ray sheets. It's all digitalized here. And we have a pile of X-ray sheets, which are obsolete nowadays. So using those X-ray sheets, I could create 10 feet by 10 feet artifact that is for TEDxHyderabad. And this artifact was portrait of great Indian president and scientist APJ Abdul Kalam. So they still have preserved it. So this was a very distinct milestone in the journey of 8Mango so far. So this comprised of some more than 500 X-ray sheets that were used in creating this artifact.

Brilliant. Brilliant. And so have you always been an artist? Is this something that has always driven you, or have you moved into this industry? It's not really an industry, is it?

Yeah, I mean, it's too early to say if it is an industry right away. And, but yeah, interestingly, I started my career in animation and dealing with pixel didn't satisfy me because there's always a feeling that you want to touch what you create. I couldn't achieve that feeling while playing with polygons.

Mm-hmm.

So just to satisfy my feeling, I started fiddling with junk, and that is how it got started. And I somehow was very inclined, uh, in knowing how these, uh, movies like, uh, Star Wars and all were being made before CG came into picture, like computer graphics came into. So they were using miniatures and all. So that was a phase in my life when I thought like I can do a lot in these. So that is how I started fiddling with junk and it started with some small miniatures and now it's scaling up every year in terms of dimension and in terms of the quantity of EVA that, that we use to create artifacts.

And where do you get your waste, your junk from? Do you have to be quite careful about where you pick it up, or?

So, so far it's been like, uh, when I started, uh, creating miniatures, my colleagues from my office and my friends and my neighborhood, they were aware of what I'm doing. So I mean, I've been fortunate, they were accumulating for me, and that was on a very small level. But as I picked on doing something on a bigger scale. And I somehow got in touch with people, those who deal with e-waste and those stuff. And, and I, I'm now collaborating with them. So it's pretty feasible for me to get the kind of junk that I'm looking for. Say, for example, it could be, for example, I was working with this, the clocks that I mentioned. For that, I wanted some similar keyboards. I mean, I got some more than 300 keyboards of similar dimensions. that helped in creating something which looks very similar. Like, if you're giving in volumes, you don't want to differ from each and every piece. So just to maintain the uniformity, I could create all these mementos with similar dimensions.

Okay. And yeah, I've got 2 questions. Do you think you'll find it hard to find more art as you grow, or will you design and come up with ideas with what you have around you?

So, uh, good question, good question. As in, uh, it's both the ways. Like, uh, it both the ways. Sometimes, uh, it's theme-driven, as in we propose a theme to a corporate or to my customers. Like, this is the theme that we can do based on your requirements. Or sometimes it comes from them. Like, they are very much sure what exactly they are looking for. And then in that case, it's a challenge because to meet their demand, as in to meet what they're looking for, for example, some of my clients, they wanted particularly a design to be done using e-waste because they were an electronic company. So in that case, it becomes a challenge in terms of getting a particular material or waste of that category to make that artifact. So that's a challenge in doing artifacts with theme-based motive.

You've mentioned the team. How many are there of— are there a team of you?

The team is pretty small, as in all are self-taught artists. And we club when we get some bigger assignments, as in, say, for example, for TEDx. For TEDx, we were like 3 to 4 artists. We clubbed and we worked for a couple of weeks and we reverted with whatever the requirements were. So we clubbed as per the requirements and it's usually like some, some as per the occasion, mostly like TEDx events are fixed for usually September or October. And we have some other events which are, which are placed in Feb and March. So these happen at periodic level. Okay, so beforehand we get intimation like, okay, fine, there'll be a requirement for such arts, and, and we start developing a concept. And because we have to be prepared beforehand what, what will be producing, and we prepare according to the EVAs that we have in hand before with us.

Okay, and you You said that you make artifacts and stuff, I guess, en masse, as in for shows, etc. Do you make individual items as well?

Yes, I do. As in, one of the concepts was a startup in Bangalore wanted to gift a takeaway to a very selective team of theirs. This was for the marketing team and they wanted something which, which would resemble this theme. So we came up with the idea of old STD booth, the phone booth. So we created phone booth for them. And it was like some, some 10 or 15 unique pieces.

Right.

And they used it as a, as a trophy, as a reward for their team. So that has a different value because this is something that they cannot buy in the market. It's not there. It's only handful of unique pieces which, which, which they'll carry as a reward. So which means a very special gift or reward to them, their team. So this is how I usually collaborate, like where there's a need. So I make a point like how we can use maximum junk to create artifact out of it.

And do you, do you sell only to Indians in India or?

So far it's been only in India and it's been both. It's been like we, we also get engaged. Say for example, when the event of, when this event of TEDx happened, so I, I represent this experience zone where people come and contribute, as in they participate to create something artifact like, like a DIY. in a collective way. So these kinds of engagements we do, but yeah, I mean, haven't shipped anything outside India so far, but yeah, soon, soon we are going to achieve that also.

And is that your goal to try and have more of a worldwide impact?

It is, it is. But the challenge we face is since shipping of artifact is a tremendous task in itself, as in it requires a lot of packaging in terms of, say for example, one of my artifacts is Buddha, which is made using more than some 600 dials, wristwatch dials. And to ship these, it's difficult. It's difficult. We are in the phase where people are asking for artifacts, but we are not able to ship because of logistic reasons. And so, so yeah, it's in that phase that we are stuck with.

Yeah.

And hopefully we'll be, we'll be like, hopefully we'll be like through with this by a couple of months, we should be able to solve this problem also.

How can I ask how you think you'll solve it? Because that sounds quite a hard thing to be able to solve.

So, I mean, one of the, one of the reasons that holds back is if you're creating art out of waste and we are packaging using, which is not waste, but we are packaging, say, using thermocol or bubble wrap or something, but still it's not guaranteed that the artifact will be intact. So, so that's, that's a challenge that we are Yeah, I can imagine.

I guess art is a difficult one, isn't it? Because I was going to say, oh yeah, but what about the travel that goes from A to B? Then you've got the carbon emissions for that travel, so therefore that sustainability. But actually, did you hear You know Amazon, the company that—

Yes.

Jeff Bezos, the owner of it, said that he was going to give $10 billion for sustainable stuff, which is a huge amount of money. And there was a thought piece written on Medium, you know, that website where people write quite a lot of stuff. And he— I think it was he or she— was saying that they thought $2 billion of that should go into the artists' hands. And because with what you're doing and how you're doing it is communicating a message that can hit so much further and has a much broader reach than just putting money into technology. You know, it's because you will hit people's hearts and you will hit people's minds. Therefore, you will have more of an impact with the work that you're doing.

True. So, so we have initiated with Amazon Handmade, but there's some paperwork that is required. And I think In a month or two, that will be sorted. And let's see how it goes with Etsy. Etsy and Amazon Handmade, both we are trying to tie up with. Okay.

I didn't realize that Amazon did.

Amazon has a section called Amazon Handmade where artisans, especially like something that you have handcrafted, you can ship it. But yeah, I mean, it's too early. For me to comment on, on that, that section.

So it's similar to Etsy?

True, yes.

Okay, okay, because I know Etsy. I've got a few friends that sell stuff through Etsy and yes, in the UK, but they ship all over the world. Brilliant. And you were talking before that you have a partner in crime and your big critic. Who is that?

He's my son. He's Aryan. And yeah, I mean, he's interested now. An interesting fact, like when I was in school, I didn't allow my, my mom or anybody in my home to throw anything. Like I could pick up from the trash bag and I would hide it somewhere. And I used to say like, I'll create something out of it. Don't, don't throw it. So as history repeats, now he's telling me like, don't throw anything, I'll do something. And for me, it's a reward. He comes up with something that he has to say, like, don't discard this, I'll make something out of it.

Brilliant. What sort of things is he making?

He's too young to do something. But yeah, he's fond of superheroes. So he's fond of superheroes. And he's trying to make something, some sci-fi objects, which he claims belongs to Iron Man or Captain America.

Brilliant. What does your wife think of all of this?

She thinks like, uh, there was one crazy person in house and now there are 2.

Brilliant. I can imagine.

Yeah, I can.

I'm just empathizing to, um, my own other half and thinking what she would—

Okay. Okay. Majority of the house, like, uh, the majority is for the junk art and minority is like, my wife is in minority section. So yeah, the majority rules now.

Yeah, I can imagine. I wonder what your garden looks like. Oh look, I've brought this back. Brilliant. I'm so pleased you brought that.

Exactly, exactly, exactly. So she doesn't know, like, I mean, what's there in my drawer and it's lying since long.

Awesome. Well, thank you so much for being on today. I think it's—

Thanks for the opportunity.

It's such a great mission and it's such a great thing that you're doing. And it's just looking at the world in a different way, isn't it? And looking at what we have around us and how we can reuse that. And so thank you for doing that. And thanks for talking to me today.

Thanks. Thanks for having me. Really pleasure to speak to you. Awesome experience. Really brilliant.

Well, we'll put up your website and any social media stuff on the website, and thank you very much. Thank you so much for listening to the end of this episode of the Green Element Podcast. Do take a moment and share this with your friends and colleagues and rate and review the podcast wherever you get your podcasts. I'd love to know what has been your biggest takeaway from this conversation. What are you going to do differently Please share your thoughts across social media and tag us so we can see them too, @GE_podcast. For links and show notes for this episode, visit our website greenelement.co.uk/podcast. Thank you again. I hope you will join me on the next episode and together we can help create a better world.