E117 - Matt Rickard from TASK.IO

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Welcome back to the Green Element Podcast, where we feature business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable. I'm your host, Will Richardson, and I can't wait to meet our guest today and help you on your journey of sustainability. Matt, welcome to the Green Element Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. You are CEO and founder of Task.io, and we came across each other through a mutual contact, through the kind of purpose-driven network, I guess. And it'd be great to find out more about who you are and what Task.io is all about, please.

Cool. Thanks, Will. Good morning or good afternoon from here. COO. By the way, COO. I don't want to nick my business partner's job quite yet, but we're both founders and CEO and COO for myself. But yeah, great to connect. And look, yeah, Task, we're a tech platform. We're all about engaging teams in activities that have positive social or environmental impact. So we're used by managers of those teams to engage those teams, but also to collect the data so they can get more reporting transparency around the activities that are happening. As an example, we've got a UK-based nonprofit that has teams in China. They're working with vets, veterinary departments, And they have no visibility for management reporting or for updating donors on what those teams of vets are doing. And they have to kind of send information every couple of months over email. And so the app, the platform allows the guys in the UK, in this case program managers, to very easily engage those vets remotely, to be in kind of one-to-one contact with them, to have them complete activities on the mobile app. get the data. It's gamified to create, you know, more kind of engagement at the team level. And, and, you know, creates more impact, gets the reports. So that's one example. And another area we are exploring right now is around the UN Global Goals, you know, talking to businesses about engaging teams in, in activities that align to their, you know, mission around the goals and how they report on those, how they make sure teams are engaging in those activities that can report against their sustainability, environmental sustainability reports. So yeah, that's what we do. It's fun, it's interesting, and we're a couple of years in and learning a lot as we go.

It's such a pertinent area at this very moment in time. And I mean, I know that you're actually— I mean, this is just how global we are now. You're based in Thailand and we're based in the UK. But your business is predominantly, not predominantly UK actually, is it? You are pretty worldwide.

Yeah, interesting for us. I mean, my business partner and I, we're both Brits. We live in Thailand. We were neighbors like years ago when we were kids and reconnected here about 8 years ago. We live here for lifestyle reasons and actually, for us, this kind of new norm of being virtual was how we ran the business anyway. And we look at our territory as not really geographical, but as where we can help out. And we've got clients in Thailand, which is where we are, but we have clients in the UK. We've been doing stuff in the food bank space. We've got an animal food bank in Canada. We've got clients in the US. We don't really, apart from having to get some sleep, we don't really worry about the territory. We're very much kind of remote operating. And we look at the territory as where are the clients that we can work with and help solve problems for?

That's brilliant. It's absolutely brilliant. And what I wanted to sidetrack into, kind of global working positions, but what I wanted to— it's really pertinent now because so many people are looking at their organizations, aren't they? And about what kind of impact their colleagues have on the wider world around them, but also how the companies and organizations are working themselves. I know we're getting asked a lot about what is it that we can do as an organization? Yeah, we're now more environmental because of you guys, but we actually want to go further. We want to start to understand it. I mean, what sort of benefits have you seen through working? Because there will be quite a lot of people listening to this podcast that will be skeptical on how does an app, how does a software help that purpose and engagements? What kind of experience have you got with it working?

Yeah, in terms of, I mean, I understand that because actually, you know, technology can be an enhancer or it can be a prohibitor. And, you know, we are mobile first, so we very much talk about team engagement from a remote level, making that process enjoyable. And a part of actually the kind of birth of our business, what we were looking at is really people having healthier relationships with technology. It's a slight kind of sidetrack to the business, but it is where, as founders, where our motivation came from and still is because it's no secret that there's a lot of unhealthy relationships that we have with technology, social media. I mean, The Social Dilemma, which I think has kind of gone global on Netflix. I don't know if you saw it. This whole area of unhealthy relationships with technology is, what we didn't want to be is, hey, we're creating a new piece of tech, we're going to throw it in there, just another app to use. And for us, it was, well, how do we make sure people are having better relationships with their phone? When you look at your 3 hours a day or whatever it is of your screen time, what proportion of that has been put towards doing something good, doing something useful? And on the app, we've got our own project around tracking SDG activity. But you can then also bolster that with rewards. And, you know, we don't have a rewards library. We have the technology where people can provide rewards, but we've been experimenting with things like you get someone to complete an activity that maybe is reducing their carbon footprint, whatever it is. Hey, I'm gonna cycle to work today. Obviously not the best example because I know you guys are going into lockdown, but conceptually, you get my idea. I'm going to cycle rather than drive. And by doing that, I'm going to earn something. And then my business is now going to take that effort that I put in and go and plant a tree on my behalf, or is going to go and— maybe it's something I'm volunteering over here. I'm doing this voluntary work and I'm earning credit for that. And that credit is being exchanged for a donation towards a relevant charity. So for me, The tech part is about facilitating use with technology, not just making another app for communicating, not just making another app for social. And there is good in technology, and Zoom has been my friend for the last year and communicating with family, as has WhatsApp. But there's also this exhaustion, I think, around technology that needs to be dealt with whereby it's not going away. We're more and more plugged into the virtual world and how do we leverage that virtual world for propagating better effect, bringing together communities, encouraging, rewarding the right types of behavior so that you create more of that. So yeah, that's really, hopefully, I don't know, it's a long answer to a question, but I think for us, it's about in enhancing those experiences, sharing, creating community that is doing more good. And technology can be a great way to do that, particularly when you're all physically disconnected, as many of us are right now. We didn't go into this business because of COVID but we found this year, obviously, the reality of people being locked down. We were locked down in Thailand previously. We're not now. Everyone's now going into it again. You know, tech can be a kind of force for good around that, connecting people in those situations.

Yeah, I think, and I think that's why it's, it is actually a really important thing that you're doing, particularly at this moment. I mean, I know that we at the company I work for are actually looking at this at the moment and going, how on earth do we measure what it is that we're doing as a B Corp? and working all remotely, we are a purpose-driven business, but how do we prove it, I guess, is actually what we need to do is prove it, because it's all very well saying, oh, we're purpose-driven, but actually, I'd like to have evidence of how we are.

I mean, for me, this area of accountability is really important, because, yeah, you're right. We really, again, part of the technology push for us is about getting rid of this kind of greenwashing area and making people accountable. And this is a generational shift anyway. I think the millennial generations below expect businesses to behave in a certain way. They're expecting organizations to have a social contract that is adhered to, to treat the planet, how it needs to be treated for us to progress rather than slip backwards. And yeah, this accountability element, I don't want to go into the weeds on the tech, but very quickly, there's a blockchain element to our app where you can start to really be kind of a lot more— track things on accountability level where you're saying, these are discrete activities that measure up to this proposal that we have put forward of how we're going to behave as a business. And yeah, I think Accountability is a big, is a big thing. It's otherwise you have way too many people, organizations just talking about doing the right things because it's great for marketing, which is good because it motivates the right behavior. But I think you also need to, you know, measure that and report around it in a way that can be, you know, people can be held accountable for. So.

Yeah. I think that's really important. We, I mean, we don't particularly help organizations become B Corps, but I know a lot of our partners do. And one of the ongoing kind of rhetoric that I hear is lots of companies want to be purpose-driven or B Corp or whatever it is. But when they actually get into the nitty-gritty, it's, oh, really? We have to do that? We have to do that? And you kind of think, are you looking at this as a box ticking out exercise? And I know they ask that and of course they say, no, we're not. But actually, I think that accountability is so important. And I just can't stress how important it is to be using software like yours and understanding what it is that you're doing. I mean, how did you get into this? What's your background?

My background has been technology sales, business development for about 25 years, I think. Sound old now. I left the UK in '96, traveled around a lot. You know, I ended up, I did 10 years in Sydney. I was in telco, then into the software game, which was natural kind of progression really. took me up to Singapore. And I worked for a business that is now owned by Oracle, went through an IPO. There was a bit of a turning point for me. I went through an IPO with an American company. I just became a number on a spreadsheet. I felt quite disillusioned. I was earning great money. This is kind of late 2008, '07, '08, '09. And then I took a couple of years out and I went back. I went and did some relief work and I ended up being part of a mission in Myanmar after Cyclone Nargis. I visited a tsunami orphanage, nothing major, but just little things. But it affected me at a level, I suppose, emotionally, where I was like, hey, I'm stuck in this kind of corporate world where it's all about money. And then I've gone off and done this little trip to an orphanage and realized all this stuff that I hadn't kind of realized. And it took me down a bit of a different path. I mean, I didn't jump off into charity, but I started learning about social entrepreneurship. I run a trek here, which I have for about 10 years up in Thailand, which was my own kind of release from the corporate world at the time, really. We'd do it once a year, myself, mates, it was originally initially, you know, we'd do 5 days at that time. As soon as you did it, it was off, you know, off the beaten track. You couldn't get Wi-Fi access or sorry, network access. Now, of course, you can. And we'd raise some money for a local organization. Everyone used to come back, come back to the office, refreshed, enlightened, you know, just feeling great. So I kind of wanted to incorporate that into my career moving forward. And that has been a meandering journey of different things, I suppose. You know, I went back and did some training. I've mentored at social enterprise workshops in Singapore, and I then did, you know, a few years contracting for a software company in the nonprofit space. So all of that stuff, I suppose, kind of comes to the journey of Task, which my business partner who founded the business a couple of years ago, as I say, my next-door neighbor from when I was, I think, 10 years old. And he's come from more of a traditional route and was hitting a point where he's a father of 2, was looking at his skills. He's more techie. He was like, very simply, he wanted to do good with technology. So bringing those, I'm more business development, commercial, had the experience in social entrepreneurship. So it was about how do we kind of marry these beliefs, these ideas, these passions, these skills to create a business that can use tech for good, which is certainly not unique. There is now, I think, which is great, there is a— you go and Google tech for good, as you know, I mean, there's a growing force around using technology in this way. All the major tech companies anyway, Salesforce, who's someone we speak to quite regularly, have a whole division, salesforce.org. And so yeah, that's the kind of journey that got me here was, yeah, one of, I suppose, life-changing moments a little bit, but nothing too profound, but just wanting to put more meaning into the professional life, really.

But I think that's really important. And I think that the journey that you've had will mold the journey you're going to have as well. And I think that experience that you've had will be absolutely spot on and really helpful as well.

Yeah, definitely. The interesting thing when you— we have this question a lot when people look at our technology, it's important to— you could take the tech and use it for lots of different things, actually. You know, that's the thing about tech. So, it is important. The philosophy and the culture of the business has so much to do, you know, with the output of what we create as an organization. And, you know, you can download the app, you can go on there. We have an area that's like our— it's called our Discover area. But, you know, that's where you start to see, well, all of the content we push out there, our blogs, our podcasts, are all around, you know, the social sector, social environmental impact, conversations with the right people. So, it's interesting because you could frankly take the tech and use it in lots of different ways, but we've just— our philosophy as a business and actually our investors have come in for that reason as well to kind of support that journey.

What would you say your purpose is?

Me individually, my purpose, or the business?

The organization. Yeah, the organization.

Our purpose is to allow as many organizations as possible to make a difference with what they do, with the work they do, and use technology to facilitate an increase in the productivity of that process. So, you know, supporting organizations that already have a, you know, already focused on some sort of good, whether that's nonprofit or the social element of a business being the CSR or sustainability team, being able to provide productivity around that so it can be the best process ever and more impact is created, you know, maximized in the best way.

And if you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners, how would you help them with their purpose and what would that be?

This is interesting. I was reading through your— I did my research. I was reading through some of your— I stopped at this question, looked at it. I was kind of deliberating it. It's an interesting question because And I know I'm on your podcast, but I want to throw a question back at you just in terms of when you talk about purpose, how do you define purpose?

Well, I think that's the reason why we ask it is every time I ask this question, I get a different answer. And when we were formulating some of the questions, we deliberated on the questions and I actually didn't like this question. And I think I actually love this question because it shows the whole reason why we are doing this podcast in the first place. We're wanting this podcast to disseminate information and knowledge across the wider network and so that we can all learn from each other and collaborate with each other. Hopefully people listening to this will want to use your software and possibly even collaborate with you, and therefore each individual answer that we get has been different and it kind of highlights actually we all come from different places. So therefore, there are lots of software companies like Compare Your Footprint out there that do almost the same thing. It doesn't matter. Some people will use us, some people will use others, and we've actually collaborated with some of our competitors and we actually pass things around because actually, not everyone is suitable for one thing. Everyone will use different things and therefore everyone will listen to different people and get advice off different people. And so that's— I know I haven't answered your question, but it kind of has answered it. That's cool.

It does. No, that makes sense. I mean, as you were talking there, I was thinking of something and I remember someone giving me some advice about— oh God, it was years ago. I did a I did a fundraising event in Singapore. I think it was in about 2006. It was almost the first thing I'd ever done. And it was a, you know, I tend to take on way too big of things than I should and then just do them anyway when everyone says you shouldn't. And I remember someone saying to me, and it's a cliché, but it's a good one, which is, you know, a lot of people who have purpose in mind want to achieve big things. But actually, those big things are just lots and lots of little things. And it's like every day, if you get up and just do one small thing in the direction of that big thing, then that is the thing that gets you there. So I suppose that, as an answer to the question, is just the little things. Actually, the little things are the things that really count, to be honest. Because when you look back, if those little things are all in the same direction, you look back 10 years' time, I mean, yeah, you've got something purposeful and meaningful to look back on that's been achieved.

When it comes to running an ethical and sustainable business, what has been your biggest struggle so far? And can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome that?

Yeah, easy. I mean, I suppose there's 2 things, right? So there's that part of it, but we're also a startup in our second year. So you have You have different types. As a startup, you are faced with challenges anyway. And if I look at that, these are both linked though. I mean, I think where the business was in February, the challenge for us right then, and this is not unique to us, I mean, the world was hit with a situation they hadn't really been expecting. We were talking mostly to for-profit clients, building up a pipeline, looking to build a business. All of that stopped. That kind of went on hold. We started to look at what else we could do. The challenge then for us was, well, can we pivot in a way that our business becomes, hey, we've got a CSR model that fulfills our purpose and then we do different things with the tech. We were kind of grappling with what is our go-to-market right now. So as it happens, we've spent probably 2, 3 months working with food banks, which we had not envisaged at all. But I think the challenge— the answer to that, to kind of put that into a succinct answer, is just with purpose, with the ethics being aligned to a certain direction, how do you keep with that all the time You know, we can, as individuals, we can be like that, but the business sometimes has its— a business is a business, it has to make money, it has to survive. And yeah, we went through some kind of challenging deliberations of what does our business look like at a time when COVID is hitting. As it happens, we came out the end of that and, you know, we found ourselves more in the nonprofit sector, funnily enough. So yeah, hopefully that answers it, not sure.

Yeah, no, absolutely. No, absolutely. It's interesting, isn't it? what things are thrown at you and how people have, I wouldn't say morphed into different things, but kind of molded and kind of meandered into different paths that you wouldn't have necessarily expected.

Yeah, I mean, I'll tell you the best one I've seen. Oh, sorry, I was going to say, no, I mean, this year has been a year of companies having to do that. I mean, I think the most unique one I've ever seen though is Thai Airways. Thai Airways started selling donuts, donuts on the street in Bangkok, and it's turned into a— they did 50 million baht's worth and they've realized it was just— I mean, it's such a random kind of sideline, but this is just the kind of uniqueness of this year, you know, when an airline starts selling donuts on street vend— via street vendors. I mean, Google afterwards, have a look. It's an amazing kind of story. I don't know where they've gone.

What's 50 million baht in UK pounds or dollars?

Oh man, you got me now. I'm not good at maths. Don't know. I'll check for you afterwards.

That just shows how much. In UK, I think a million baht.

A million baht. I left the UK in 96. A million baht, I think, is 20, 20,000 quid, I think. But you know. Depends. Since Brexit, it's all gone wrong, so I haven't checked since. Yeah, we've changed rates to become healthier this way around, and hopefully I'm right on the £50 million part, but it was a lot of money anyway. It's an interesting side story of how businesses have had to adapt in, you know, in 2020, because they certainly have.

Yeah, I wonder if they'll carry on and stop being an airline. Oh, they can't be. But yeah, that's And how can we learn more about you? And yeah, where do we learn more about you and your organization?

Yeah, the easiest thing is just our website. I mean, all of our links are on there, but our website is the best place. So just task.io, T-A-S-K dot I-O. We've got a blog on there. We run regular blogs. We've got a podcast. on there, and hopefully I'll get you on the podcast as well. We speak to people in the social sector, sustainability leaders, you know, a kind of mixture of people in the space that we're in. So yeah, everything's on the website, and you can find all our social media channels on that website as well.

Brilliant, brilliant. Well, thank you so much for being on today. It's been absolutely fascinating listening to you, and really good luck with your journey and with everything you're doing.

Yeah, cheers, Will. Really, really appreciate it. And I hope— I know that in the UK you guys are starting, just about to enter, or just have a tricky kind of— hopefully it's only a month. But yeah, best of— best, you know, to yourself and the lockdown and your health and everything else. So hopefully, hopefully it all kind of changes soon. And yeah, thank you.

Thank you.