E121 - Matt Letley from Redbox

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Welcome back to the Green Element Podcast, where we feature business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable. I'm your host, Will Richardson, and I can't wait to meet our guest today and help you on your journey of sustainability.

Thank you for letting me come on your podcast today. I'm just delighted to, to have been invited.

Just about to introduce you. Yes, it's Matt Lettley, Managing Director of Red Box, a stationery company. And I'm saying that in a kind of weird kind of stationery company because you've— you're doing so much more now, aren't you?

You are really—

you've changed in the last 6 months, and it'd be great to hear more about your organisation.

Thanks, Will. Thank you. Yeah, very excited to be joining you today, and thanks for that kind introduction. So yeah, the business— it was interesting when you say office supplies and stationery. You're right, Will. 30 years ago, David James and his father Stanley, they started the business as an office supplies company, and over the years that's progressed. The more we've spoken to our customers, the great service we provide has opened up other opportunities. So in terms of what we do now, we provide ethical and sustainable office interiors, office supplies, and print solutions to our customers' offices to help them run more productively. And in terms of who we are, we've got 35 amazing staff. We're based on the outskirts of London and we operate on a national basis. We work with our customers to create those sustainable, productive, and safe working environments, and what that allows their staff to do is make them feel valued whilst also helping them to attract some of the best talent in their industry.

Brilliant, brilliant. And I mean, could you tell us what, what your purpose is and who you work with?

Yeah, absolutely. So in terms of our purpose, it's about making a lasting impact in society and on the environment through the products and services we provide. We've taken that a step further, having certified during lockdown as a B Corporation. Delighted to be joining yourselves and other like-minded businesses. And as part of that process, we've managed— it's allowed us to make an even bigger impact in society and on the environment, and we've now formally committed through that process to donate 20% of any net profits generated to charitable causes.

So even at this time where it's been really hard for you, you're still making those— and I would say sacrifices, aren't they? And it's, I mean, that's really commendable, that really is commendable.

Yeah, I think it's one of those things that's always been inherent in our business, Will. It goes back to, you know, David and Stanley. It's those family values that are inherent in the business. The company's always done fantastic charitable activities to really make a difference, but has always struggled to articulate how to present that to the marketplace and to customers, I guess, for fear of sounding a bit preachy, but also for being seen in a potentially negative way of taking advantage of people in a less fortunate position. So through the B Corp process, it's really allowed us to better articulate that message. And as you say, Will, you know, coronavirus— we're not alone. There are businesses up and down this country that have really been affected by coronavirus, coronavirus, and some worse than others. The way we looked at it, we could either bury our heads in the sand or, you know, face up to it, and the team have done a great job. They've really embraced the challenge that's been put at our door, and they've come up with some fantastic initiatives to really make the business continue to succeed, Will.

What sort of initiatives have you come up with?

So the biggest initiative, we've been Speaking with our customers is one thing we always do. We listen to our customers intently. We really understand the challenges they're facing for us to then be able to come up with some proposals to help with their problems. And we ran a survey to 3,500 key decision makers, and it was those customers that were telling us that people have been working on edge of beds, on coffee tables, on dining room tables, and also in isolation. And as a result, people have been experiencing not just physical but also mental health issues. So as a result of that, we spoke to our customers, we made the customers' management teams aware that their employees are struggling. They came back to us and said they're also struggling to keep connected with their greatest asset in the business, their best, biggest strength, which is their staff. They want to make them feel valued, they want to be better connected with them, and therefore we've come up with a proposal to help them with subsidised home office equipment and services that allow them to work productively and safely and healthily from home. And we've done that in collaboration with a fellow B Corp, The Big Clean Switch, and John Fletcher and his team have been incredible by coming up with fuelling the office— home office that we're providing with clean energy, clean renewable energy. And then the other side of that angle as well is also partnering with mental health charity Oakleaf, where they can provide outreach services that are independent expert advice to just help their staff who are struggling at the moment.

That's funny, I know Oakleaf. I think we've had this conversation actually. The CEO or managing director of Oakleaf is the father-in-law of a friend of mine.

Oh really?

Yes.

Oh, it's a small world.

Yeah, really small, that's funny. Rob, who's actually— he was facilities of the company and become friends of mine. He moved on, he now works for Jamie Oliver. Yeah, very good.

And the other thing as well, plus we're also going to continue with our charitable giving. 2% of all orders on the new website, it's going to be launched next week, are going to be going to Helen and Douglas House Children's Hospice to make sure that we're continuing to give back because charities have been really affected during this This pandemic.

Yeah, I can imagine. And you really are on the cutting edge of this change we're seeing in society, aren't you?

Yeah, I mean, if we chat in a moment, Will, it's like the genie's been let out the bottle. Customers are telling us that, you know, the sustainability agenda is very much at the forefront of their thinking. And it's also a combination of making their staff feel more valued and empowered and productive because they can realise they can now work remotely from home. Staff no longer need to have the added stress and pressure about going on the daily commute, and all of that is having a positive impact on the environment. It feels like we've entered an evolution of the workplace.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It'll be interesting to see where we go. the next few years. I think it's— I think what you were talking about with the survey and what people are finding out about— I mean, some of the things you were saying about people working on the edge of beds and perched, you know, I've got one friend who's working in their children's bedroom when they're at school because that's the only place that they can actually work. So they're crouched on a small desk, and there must be so many people that are like that, working in really quite inappropriate places, really inappropriate for their back.

Absolutely, absolutely. And that's where, you know, our team of experts, they are certified to provide workplace assessments, and they can provide them with the right guidance and advice about how they should sit. But also, we've got a huge range that can be put into a studio flat, which would be a foldaway desk, but it will provide them with the right equipment to make sure that they're sat properly, to make sure that they're feeling looked after by the employer as well, at the same time as fixing their challenges that they're facing.

I wonder if there's going to be insurance ramifications on the back of this.

It's interesting you say that. We were speaking with an insurance company just recently and they certainly feel like from an employer perspective, you know, obviously I'm exactly the same way as an employer of staff that we need to make sure that we have a duty of care for our staff and we need to provide them with the right products and with the right equipment to make sure that they're cared for and looked after. And if we don't, then there could be ramifications further down the line, absolutely.

Yeah, it's just a brave new world.

Yeah, it certainly is, Will, it certainly is.

So moving on to you as an organization, and what would be quite cool would be to understand how you engage your staff, suppliers, and customers with that mission and purpose. And has that changed over the last year?

It really has. And I'm going to sound like a bit of a B Corp ambassador now. And for someone that only heard of B Corp about 2 and a half years ago, I appreciate that every business, but for us personally, what it did, it best reflected our purpose and it provided a structure of how to articulate our mission and purpose to our staff, our suppliers, and also our customers. And we went through a 2-year certification process and we engaged with our people right at the outset and explained why we were doing it. And then from that, we outreached from our staff into our customers, suppliers, and also the community. And by sharing that journey, it brought all stakeholders closer together, and that in turn benefited the business.

Okay, brilliant. I mean, you do hear such good stories around people who become B Corps, and it's— but it's not— and I don't want to sound like a broken record with regards to— I think there are so many organizations out there, and it's got to be worth Mentioning that there are loads of organizations out there that are really, really good, really purpose-driven, that aren't B Corps. I was actually talking to a company yesterday that's working fashion, and they some of the stuff that they are doing, I'd never heard of them. Company called Beaumont, man. But what they have a factory that they make the clothes in Portugal. They deliberately didn't go. They've basically every step of the way they've thought about everything making their clothes. clothes and the way that they do it. And I, and I had this conversation with this guy and I was like, wow, uh, it, it really makes me happy that there are so many small organizations that are really thinking about this innately themselves. These guys have been around since 2008 and, um, they are— I just, yeah. And I think that's where we've got to remember is it's not necessarily— it's, there are loads of purpose-driven. I think as long as organizations are purpose-driven That's a really good thing.

Absolutely, absolutely. As I say, just for us, it just gave that structure that we didn't previously have, and it also not only has delivered on our current ambitions, but it also sets up our future aspirations as well.

Yeah, yeah, I think, yeah, brilliant. So when it comes to running an ethical and sustainable business, what would you say has been your biggest struggle so far, and can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome it?

Yeah, biggest struggle, I would say historically, I mentioned it briefly earlier, but it was how to articulate our story that reflected our values and purpose as a business. We were doing a lot of great stuff and we wanted to back up our positive words and good intentions with more evidence of what we were doing with a positive impact. So we were doing some great things in the community, we were creating some really innovative environmental initiatives, But we were just fearful of coming across a little bit preachy or worried about how we were going to be perceived. So the best thing we did, we engaged with 2 thought-provoking and leading ethical and also environmental partners in Junction and Ethical Goods, and they helped in our mission. So they really came in, they unearthed everything, they challenged our business, they were brutally honest, which at times it kind of made us sit back in our seat whilst we dusted ourselves off a bit. It was refreshing and it empowered us to more effectively share that core message, from helping us understand the value of being clear about our purpose. And they supported us and they really did handhold us through that B Corp certification process. So yeah, that was the biggest thing that we did in terms of overcoming it by engaging with 2 really credible organisations.

Yeah, Adam from Junction is brilliant at what he does. And what I think is interesting about his background is he comes from Friends of the Earth and the, you know, that kind of more, you know, on the front line kind of facing. And now he works very much in the corporate world. And so he brings that freshness into the corporate world, I think. and it does it really well.

Absolutely. The one thing it's opened up for us is an incredible network of like-minded people and like-minded businesses. And the one thing we found, when you're speaking to people that have very similar values, they really want to share and they want to help you. And that's been great for us as a business. And we try and give back as much as we can.

Brilliant. And if you could offer one piece of advice to our listeners, which could help them with their purpose, what do you think that would be?

For us, it was getting the team involved, getting your people involved, include them in your purpose right at the outset. And the other thing that I would say, and I'd like to say it was advice that I would give, but it was advice that's been given to me by Ed Perry at Cook, was to manage your own personal expectations. Because at the beginning, not everyone's going to have the same enthusiasm as the belief as what you do behind this vision. But because we engage with our staff right at the outset and the suppliers and the customers, they've joined us on this incredible journey.

Okay, brilliant. That's really, really good advice. And if we could talk a bit about the environmental management and carbon footprinting of the organization, of Redbox, and what it is that you do. I mean, how do you manage your environmental impact?

So in terms of managing the environmental impact, being honest, Scope 1 and Scope 2 measurement and management was the easy part. Well, I wouldn't say easy, it was easier. The struggle was measurement and buy-in on Scope 3 because we've got such a diverse supply chain. It was really trying to understand and work with and engage with those suppliers and partners that we've got to really unearth what it looks like today. And trying to get that initial benchmark, that's why we needed the external support and advice from the likes of Junction as well and from Ethical Goods, and they really did handhold us through that process. We've always had ISO accreditations, Will, so we're accredited to ISO 14001 and 9001 as well from a quality management perspective, so we've got those certifications and structure in place that we're continually improving. But the B Lab assessment for us and also the SDG Action Manager have helped us realise those future ambitions around improving our carbon footprint.

The SDG Action Manager is really, really good, isn't it?

Yeah, it really identified key areas for us to work on, and that was the big thing, that we were setting some lofty goals, but then the plan to get to those lofty goals, because like I said earlier, You've got expectations and vision. Yes, we will, but it's not until you break it down into those bite-sized chunks. And when you do, you get some quick wins. And that's where we found we got the buy-in from the rest of the team and from suppliers. And when we tick those off, we could then set reset new goals, reset new targets. So we're gradually edging towards that lofty goal that we've got. I'm sure well there are a lot of other businesses that have signed up to up and down the country to be. Net zero by 2030.

Nice. And to our listeners, the SDG Action Manager, if you go to the B Corp website, you'll be able to find it through that. It's a free resource that you can use to set SDG goals. Well worth the effort to look into that.

Absolutely.

Is there any advice or learning that you could give an organization in probably current climates about trying to be more green and trying to be more environmental?

I'd say to just speak to the customers and speak to your suppliers openly because they have— well, what we found is when we're speaking openly with them, they've got the same goals and ambitions, but doing it alone is difficult. So as a, for instance, we've worked with our customers to understand exactly what the environmental impact is of shipping the goods and services we provide to them that they require. And our industry, it's provided over the years an expectation of convenience. So if you order today, we'll get your stuff delivered to your desk tomorrow by 5 o'clock.

Right.

And that's resulted in multiple packages, multiple deliveries, multiple invoices, and that all negatively impacts the planet. But Until we can report and record and share that information with our customers, there's not much we can do about it. But when we sit down with them, understand what they're looking to achieve, we work very much in partnership and where we report the environmental impact of switching from this service that's in place to going to a reduced order frequency and delivery model. Not only does that reduce the impact to the planet, but it's also reducing the costs involved to our business to service that requirement. And we're openly sharing that financial benefit with our customers. And because we have partnerships, we believe we should be sharing that. So we do share that financial benefit back to our customers. And that's just one of the initiatives that the team create. But to go back to the initial question, just speak with customers, speak to the supply chain, really open up because 99% of the time they're looking to achieve the same thing. And it just, it's much easier working in partnership trying to achieve that same goal.

Yeah, brilliant, really good advice. And you can hear that passion, that knowledge, that expertise coming through while you've been talking about what you've been doing at Redbox. I mean, what's your background? Like, could you tell us a bit of the history about who Matt Letley is, please?

Yeah, sure. So I was— I say I grew up— my father introduced me to this industry some 22 years ago now. I know I don't look old enough, do I, Will? So yeah, my father introduced me to the industry and it was working for an SME at the time. They were really creative, really innovative, and through various acquisitions ended up working for a global corporate. And it was at the time my life changed. Had a wonderful— and she's 8 years old now— going on to be a teenager at times. But my daughter was born, had that, I guess, life-changing decision to make about what I personally wanted, and I was missing out on a lot. So working for a local business that really cared for the planet and really cared for society and wanting to make a positive impact on the environment, I was really careful when I switched my career from working for that global corporate to who I wanted to work with. And when I came across Redbox, met with David and the team, it was one of those moments you think, yeah, this is the right fit for me. And we've gone on an incredible journey over the last 5 years. We've made a lot of great changes, but it's the team that sit behind us and the people that we all care passionately about. They care passionately about our customers and also making that difference in Brilliant, so you've, you've really kind of worked your way through Redbox up to Managing Director then as well? Yeah, they, they brought me on, uh, through a merger, uh, back in 2015 and, uh, came in as Sales Director and you're right, yeah, absolutely, as you say, Will, worked the way through the business, but that's what's great about the company, it's, uh, it supports with your career ambitions, um, and it supported me personally to get to the position that I'm in now. today. And to go back to it, you know, all of that wouldn't be possible without the staff that sit behind us.

That's brilliant. That's really, really nice to hear, and it's nice to hear your kind of journey as well, because I think that's what a lot of these organisations— and I think I was reading an article recently that a lot of— they're looking at the face of a lot of smaller organisations because actually they're driving so much more change now. Because we are looking at buying off smaller organizations, we're thinking about who we buy off and what we're— what, you know, our actions, much more so than ever before.

Yeah, absolutely. I think I totally agree. It's hard to relate, isn't it, to a business? It's hard to make that connection. But when you get to understand the person that sits behind the business a lot better, then you've got that personality that sits behind it, you can relate to it more, can't you? I totally agree, Will.

Well, I wonder, because I was having read that, I was then thinking about we're quite scathing of personality politics, and so we're quite keen to have personality business but then scathing of personality politics. I don't know, I just started thinking about it and going, well, that's a bit of a dichotomy, isn't it?

It is indeed. Anyway, yeah, it is indeed, it is indeed.

Brilliant, thank you so much for being on today. I mean, is there anything else that you wanted to add?

No, not for me, Will. It was just to say thank you very much for the time today. Thank you to your listeners if they've listened in today. You know, there's a lot of work for us to do as a business. You know, there are times we don't always get it right. We have got it wrong. But what's important for us, we've got that inclusive, open, and honest relationship with our staff. And because of that, they are honest with us. They will tell us as it is, and they will be direct with us. And because we're open to listening, we will always adapt. We will always change. We'll recognize if we got things wrong. and we'll correct things for future. And it's by working with our customers, uh, great people, um, that's what will make this business succeed in the long term. We'd love to hear from any of your listeners that want to get in touch, hear a bit more about our business. Um, yeah, brilliant, brilliant.

Well, we'll, um, we'll post any links, um, on your business on the website and be promoting those as well. So thank you so much for being, um, coming on And yeah, good luck with everything.

Thank you, Will. Great catching up. No doubt we'll speak again soon. Thanks again.

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