E133 - Patrick Richards from TerraVerde

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Welcome back to the Green Element Podcast, where we feature business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable. I'm your host, Will Richardson, and I can't wait to meet our guest today and help you on your journey of sustainability. Patrick, welcome to the Green Element Podcast. Thank you so much for joining us today. We know you through the wonderful work you do at Terra Verda, and I should caveat with the fact that we do work with you through Compare Your Footprint. But could you tell us a bit about your business and what your purpose is and who you work with?

Okay, great. Well, firstly, thank you very much for inviting me on, Will. It's great to be here. So our mission is to help tourism businesses onto the sustainability ladder. Tourism is one of the largest industries globally, 1 in 10 people employed, or at least until the beginning of 2020, 1 in 10 people employed, responsible for 1 in 6 new roles, employment roles. So a huge industry, but we recognize that also it's underpenetrated as far as sustainability is concerned. So for example, the UNWTO say that only 1 in 10 hotels, independent hotels in Europe, have any kind of sustainable footprint. So we know that something has to be done, and we know that 70% of consumers want to have a sustainable travel choice. 93% of the world's largest companies measure their own footprints and are increasingly expecting their supply chain to do the same, which obviously impacts on all sorts of areas of tourism. But we felt that there was really a lack of practical assistance that could help people onto that ladder. So, you know, where there's a will, there's a way. And we felt that we should, you know, our role would be to give people business-friendly, practical advice on getting onto that ladder and moving up the ladder.

Brilliant, brilliant. And could I— what obviously you do the footprinting, but you do so much more, you know. It would be great to explore what it is that you're doing and trying to achieve, and then If we could have a look at, you know, what your background is and how you've ended up where you are today.

Oh well, I started in the tourism business on April Fool's Day 1985. So we started with a business called GTA that at that stage was a £25 million turnover business that not as one of the owners, but as one of the executive committee that sat just below those 3 owners. We built that business from, uh, a— that $25 million up to being sold in 2005 for $1.1 billion to an American organization called Sendent. And, you know, that 20 years was a journey of discovery, uh, as I traveled the world and met all sorts of cultures and realized the power of travel to win hearts and minds was a wonderful thing. And then after that, I did various other corporate roles up until about 2019, where really I became increasingly interested actually through the work I do with a trade association called the European Tourism Association, where I sit on the board of directors. And we realized that sustainability was absolutely core to the future health of the travel industry, and that's— that was prior to COVID. So became increasingly interested and also kind of became increasingly interested that what I wanted to do in a kind of purpose-driven manner would not be easily deployed within a corporate organization and felt that a more entrepreneurial environment at my ripe old age was the right thing to do, Will. So, you know, really, as far as I'm concerned, you know, 35 years in tourism, I come at sustainability from that angle. And, you know, I think we, you know, we have a lifetime of contacts at a fairly senior level, but we also, more importantly, we speak the language of tourism. And every different economic sector has its own jargon and its own language, but I think we're we really understand what floats people's boats as far as, you know, how do you interpret sustainable language and make it applicable within a tourism environment. And of course, we use people like, you know, people like ETOA who are thought leaders in the space, are great rallying posts for rolling out that communication and that best practice. And especially when it reaches an SME level, because, you know, let's face it, 70% of the tourist industry is still in the hands of SMEs, and that's over 90% of the companies. So even though you have some, some very large travel companies, there's a huge long tail of SMEs out there. And if the sustainable environmental question is going to be addressed properly, those guys need to be engaged. And the more we look around, the more we see that it seems to be large public and private sector companies that are currently engaged and currently reporting. And, you know, we feel a key part of our mission, both as Terra Verde and as working with folks like ETOA, is to be able to roll that out and effectively interpret it for that SME audience that's going to be so important in the future of And have you seen a change since you started with sustainability and how it's, you know, what people are talking about? Absolutely. It's from being peripheral, I would say it's now very central. Now, you know, you have to put that in the context of an industry that's fighting for survival and feels that it's on the operating table of life. My argument is that if you're on the operating table, it's actually probably the best time to reset the heart into a new rhythm that can be durable into the future. So, so, you know, that, that's the So, you know, we're very much of the view that we should build back, build back better, to coin a phrase that's often used. But nevertheless, you can just see initiatives coming from a number of different angles. And the tourism business, as you know, covers a whole range of different subsectors. And different initiatives are being explored in all of those different subsectors, I would say.

Okay, brilliant. And so what would you say your business superpower was?

It's those 35 years of connections within the industry and our ability to really relate and convey to the day-to-day problems of how a tourism business works and how people are to make it profitable, especially especially in an age like now when so many folks are struggling to make the next salary round.

Could you go into more detail about how, you know, what is it that Terra Verde does in order to help these organizations become more sustainable?

First of all, I think we're pretty kindred spirits on this front. For us, it starts with measuring. And unless you can quantify— for me, it's like walking into your bank manager without a balance sheet or without a set of accounts, or even going to the doctor and not, you know, getting your weight measured. This is an absolute foundational thing to looking to understanding your business, understanding its footprint. So we start off with the measuring, we see how that then impacts on, you know, what's the nature, what's the DNA of the business, what are its aims, and how can we help it, you know, assess that footprint, set targets, set milestones to reduce. And then at the end of that, okay, you know, you're going to have a target for 2025 or 2030, which I think is about the longest time horizon that anybody, you know, any of us can look at meaningfully, and then look at see, well, okay, what can I reduce? How can I improve my systems and my processes? And then at the end of that process, there's got to be some offsetting too, especially if flights are involved, because that's something that really is impossible to reduce in the tourism business at the moment.

Are you finding that people are reciprocal— no, not reciprocal— are responding well to what you're suggesting?

Incredibly well, and everybody— everybody— people love what we're doing. I think our challenge with it really, Will, is to make sure that people act. It's very easy to say, yes, we love what you're doing, Oh, but let us first, you know, get back to trading, which of course we understand. You know, if you are struggling to meet the next salary run, that's a concern. But as we say, you know, we think that this should be added into the build-back process where you can effectively re-engineer your business not only to be sustainable and durable financially, but to be sustainable and durable ethically. And we know that, you know, a number of surveys have shown that consumers are increasingly questioning companies' ethics. There was a great survey from an agency, I don't know if you saw it, called Futura the other day. saying that 86% of consumer— 86% of corporate leaders thought their business was sufficiently sustainable, yet only 41% of consumers felt they had enough information. So there's clearly a deficit between what a lot of folks in leadership positions think and what their consumers think. And, you know, I think that for anybody is clearly a risk.

Yeah, no, absolutely. No, absolutely. I think, and I think the consumers are finally leading the way as well. So I think, you know, understanding that 41% is going to be incredibly useful for our business leaders of tomorrow because it is now consumers and our culture in the UK and around the world, I think, that is driving that systemic change that we are— we've been wanting for a long time and we're starting to see finally, which is great. I mean, how do you engage your staff, suppliers, customers with your mission and purpose?

Well, I think It's quite easy because firstly we do have a purpose, and having been involved with businesses in the past and certain businesses that have been incredibly purpose-driven and have really had a great strategy, but some maybe that really haven't had a why of their own, we have a very clear why. Tourism is one of the largest industries in the world, as I've pointed out. And, you know, I think it's pretty, pretty unprepared for what's coming down the track. So, you know, there was a survey from UCLA which said that 92% of under-30-year-olds wanted to work for a company that had an environmental conscience. And actually, their productivity improved by 16% in working in such an environment. Well, You know, when you are purpose-driven and when we do feel we're on this mission to help green up the tourism business, that's quite an easy message to get across. And I think the other part of it really is just, you know, keep on communicating and talking to people. And the more you talk to people and the more you sort of understand what they're looking for and try and convey where you see the sustainability movement is going effectively, then you can reach common ground and you kind of get that light bulb moment where people really click and want to be involved, you know, with the whole thing.

Interesting. And so when it comes to running An ethical and sustainable business. What would you say has been your biggest struggle so far, and can you tell us a bit about how you've overcome it?

It's— biggest struggle will be getting people, getting people to commit beyond the next 3 months, I would say, within tourism. And, you know, I do appreciate it. There is a very genuine concern about about getting business moving again. You know what's coming out in the newspapers in the last two days is yet another roadblock that we see to the to the reboot of travel, but really getting people to say the climate emergency is hitting us and it is hitting us now. This is not something that really can wait for another year or 2 years. It's a little bit telescopic. Without being political about it, Will, it's a little bit like our government, you know, going 2 weeks later into lockdown has an elongated effect the other end as you come out in terms of the amount of time you have to spend in lockdown. So we're kind of arguing that the sooner that it goes into this, the sooner you can be prepared, the more you'll be prepared to meet customer needs, the more you'll be able prepared to meet your investor needs, and the more you'll be prepared to meet, you know, the needs of regulation as that comes down the track too. So, you know, I think that's one thing, is getting people to really take up the gauntlet sooner rather than later. And I think also there's a couple of other areas too. One is a slightly knee-jerk reaction to move to carbon offsetting very quickly? Yeah, I think a lot of tourism companies are fairly asset light, so they automatically think, well, okay, you know, my footprint is very small, I don't really need to worry about that, you know, I can move straight and do some carbon offsetting scheme which will assuage my conscience. And we're saying, well, actually, you're missing that foundational link that's really important to how you want to go forward. So I think telling people that they need to go through that measurement process, they need to reduce their own carbon footprint, and then at the end of it, there might be some carbon offsetting, is a key message. And there was another point too, but it's gone out of my head, Will.

That's right, that's right. The, um, I, I think I would imagine it must be really, really useful because for you, for, you know, I, I know that every— I know everyone in your team and you've all, you've all got as much experience as you have to be able to go into conversations with not just this, and I'm not going to do a service to many environmental professionals, but I don't mean— and I don't mean it badly, but kind of, oh, you need to be more green, you need to be more sustainable, don't have so much passion and drive. But having not worked in the industry, you kind of— you'd end up with blank ears going, yeah, but you don't actually understand what it is that we're trying to do. You kind of don't know what we are doing. But you have, you know, that experience That prior. So when you walk into conversations and then talk about sustainability and environmental travel, they go, actually, Patrick knows what he's talking about because he has run businesses, he has been in the industry for decades, and so therefore actually understands the barriers that we have to overcome. And that must help massively in your conversations.

Nobody wants to be preached to, in my view. So absolutely. And I think firstly, you want people to feel that you're on their side and that you have their business interests at heart. And their business interests at heart are, one, making sure, you know, the commercial side of their business works so that they're around to be able to adopt a more environmental future. But 2, in saying, well, in doing this, you're doing the right thing. And actually, we're kind of pushing an open door with that, Will. You know, most business leaders that I'm talking to, they're definitely, you know, their heart is in the right place. It's just that there's a dearth of information and there's a dearth of practical help to say, okay, what's the first step? How do we do this without, you know, becoming a project that's going to engulf 30% of our time or cost us X amount of money? Or even, you know what, because our operational systems are going to be better and because our risk management is going to be better, we might actually save money and improve our cost control at the same time. And these are all messages that resonate and people think, yeah, I should do this sooner rather than later.

Brilliant. Is there, is there one piece of advice you could offer our listeners around, you know, helping with their purpose? And, you know, what driving— you've clearly, you know, your purpose, and you know what it is that you're driving forwards. What would you suggest to our listeners?

Can I give 2 pieces of advice?

Of course you can.

One would clearly be measure. And, you know, in tourism, I think there's 400 different certification schemes.

Wow.

And frankly, that's confusing to people, whereas all of the signs that are, you know, all of the trends show that a science-based approach where you actually measure your carbon footprint is a great foundation for this. You know, it gives you awareness. Once you have awareness, then you can start to control and you can start to manage and you can start to set targets. So that measurement, I think, is incredibly important. I think the second thing is feel it, believe in it. You know, if you're doing something for show or doing it because you feel you have to, or it's going to be found out sooner or later. So really incorporating that into your passion and into your reason to get up every morning is quite important. And I see those 2 things as pretty compatible, Will. Obviously tourism has challenges that it needs to be able to face. And, you know, air and getting on planes is one of them. I used to be a person who was on aircraft a lot. I haven't been on an aircraft for the last year. Some of that, I must say, is force majeure. But, you know, I do believe in the ability of air of people getting on planes as a great international leveler and bringer of peace and understanding. So from that angle, you know, air travel has been a great thing and shouldn't be, you know, shouldn't be discarded. But we do have to admit that it's an emitter. So, you know, where we see our role with something like air is, well, We're not going to change Boeing, or we're not going to change Airbus. But we can tell people that if you happen to get onto an Airbus 350, that will be 20% lower emissions than an Airbus 330. And that, you know, they're both on the same route between New York and London. So, you know, I don't want people not to get on planes. I think if there's a viable alternative to aircraft, of course you should look at it. But, you know, stopping people get on planes will strangle the industry. And in the meantime, you know, it actually stops the investment of people working towards electrifying this or making hydrogen solutions that I'm absolutely confident will make air travel zero emissions in a matter of decades. How many decades is open to question. But in the meantime, then there's an awful lot that we can do on the ground surfaces, and that's where we spend the time. And, you know, we know that there's 3— ground transport, buildings, and food are 3 key emitters. And, you know, on the ground surface level, that translates to hotels, restaurants, and various ground transport, all of which are key to travel's infrastructure. And all of those, there's really practical, critical things you can do to help green up that supply chain and make that part of tourism, which actually cumulatively is greater than the air, you know, much more environmentally sustainable.

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And how you've touched upon, you know, the future of carbon footprinting and helping the travel industry become green. I mean, what is it that you guys are doing yourself? You've touched upon the fact that you've not gone on a flight for a year, but are you carbon footprinting your own organization? Are you looking at the environmental impact of your own company as well?

Yeah, of course, of course, and of course. And, you know, that's—

Great answers.

Well, you know, if it— look, you know, these, these things dawn on you over, over a matter of time. And, you know, I, I go— I used to go on the weekly shop and just get increasingly sickened as I unpacked the weekly shop by the amount of plastic I was, uh, and, and packaging I was discarding. And, you know, these things just, you know, it's like a death by a thousand cuts, Will. They increasingly just worry you over time. So absolutely, we measure our carbon footprint. We're a young company, even though Chris and I, neither Chris and I are spring chickens. We are, we're a young company, so we don't have our first full year behind us, but we are measuring ongoing. We We all have renewable electricity. We all, you know, as I say, I don't pick up plastic anytime I possibly can. You know, I stopped buying plastic bottles. You know, all of those kind of things are incorporated into our life. And, you know, I think you need to— I'm applying for solar panels on my roof now. So that's another thing we're looking at. You know, all of those things, I think, You have to walk the walk as well as talk the talk.

I agree. I agree completely. I think that's— yeah, I couldn't agree with you more. And so, I mean, how can we learn more about, you know, who you are and where you are? And yeah, how do we find out more about you?

Oh, well, great. Go to the site, which is www.teraverde-solutions.com. Send us an email at hello@teraverdesolutions.com. Follow us on LinkedIn at Terra Verde Sustainability. Reach out to me, I'm on LinkedIn, Patrick Richards 2669411, Will.

We'll put the links up on the website if you didn't catch that very memorable LinkedIn Um, profile. But yeah, I mean, thank you so much for being on, and I think what you guys are doing is brilliant. And you know, we're firm advocates of, um, of what you're doing. And, um, yeah, I think the more people talking about it and actioning— and I think it's the actioning that's really, really important, which you are absolutely trying to get people to do. and organizations to do. So thank you for that.

Well, thanks to you, Will, and on a broader level, thanks to you and your team. You know, we enjoy partnering on the Compare Your Footprint very much, and that's greatly appreciated.

Thank you.

Thank you. Cheers, Patrick.

Thanks, Will.

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