E149 - Lora Nikolaeva from Lora Gene

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Welcome to the Green Element Podcast, where we meet business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable, and in the process, help you on your sustainability journey. I'm your host, Will Richardson. The negative impacts of fast fashion and a lack of inclusivity in the fashion industry have been increasingly highlighted in the media in recent years. Today, we are speaking with someone who is tackling those issues head-on with their business. Laura Nikolova, founder of Laura Jean, the British contemporary womenswear brand that champions sustainability and inclusivity within the fashion industry. Thank you for joining us today, Laura.

Thank you for having me, Will.

I'd like to start by asking about your journey and you, and how did you go from being a fashion model to working at Procter& Gamble as a brand ambassador to arriving here as a successful entrepreneur with your own B Corp certified fashion brand?

Oh, um, it's been a journey, isn't it? Um, so I often, uh, you know, when I try to respond to this question, I often say that I really don't know if I have to be honest. I really don't because, uh, you know, my background, I don't have any sort of fashion background. I come from a doctor's family. My mom is a doctor. My father was a, an entrepreneur in buildings and constructions. I've never thought I'm going to do fashion. And therefore, sometimes I think that the reason why this is happening to me is because someone, maybe someone like me is needed in this industry. You know, quite often my take on this answer is, is, you know, I should probably do something in this industry because it wasn't really intentional. I finished advertising as my first degree, then I just actually finished a business degree as well. So I'm very much interested in the business side of things and how we can really change the business model as a structure rather than, you know, the style approach or simply the trends or simply the fibers. Of course, I'm very interested in it because, you know, purely aesthetically as well, but I feel like That is something that I need to do in this industry because very often as well, I struggle to fit into a line with all the problems and issues.

Do you think that now knowing that your parents, one was a doctor and one worked in business, that you've kind of molded your parents together, haven't you? And you're now working, helping Businesses. So you're kind of doing the doctoring and the looking after people.

Yeah, probably in a way. I really wanted to be a plastic surgeon, right? So, you know, yeah. And I was born tall and slim. So this kind of naturally happened. I actually was a makeup artist for a while. I really did enjoy it because, you know, I draw very well. But at some point, somehow naturally everything happened, you know, just friends and customers around me were asking me for like pretty much like my style take on whatever is it that they need. And, and at some point, you know, also where I come from is very much of a garment production country. Bulgaria is one of the biggest garment manufacturers, um, in Europe for sure. Uh, so it, you know, it was an experiment in the beginning and then somehow people responded really well. So I said, okay, why not? You know, it's a, it's an interesting venture. Uh, and also it, It happened in a very weird time, I would probably say as well. The first time I started doing clothes, it was the global financial crisis in 2008, '09. And, you know, we were actually doing well. So, it was a bit of a sign that, you know what, maybe we can explore it. So, yeah, that's pretty much the journey.

Brilliant. And so, why did you decide to pursue a B Corp certification? And what were the motivating factors for you?

You know what? I've, like I said, I do try to find a way and prove that a business can be sustainable and still be kind to the environment and to the people. And I think B Corp is the only certification that I was very interested as the head of this entity, because it sort of looks at the whole operational model. So, B Corp doesn't really certify a fabric or a product or, you know, an operational activity. It does look at the whole structure of the business and it does certify your operations at every level of the value chain. So, I feel like, you know, it was the right thing to do. And also, I was pretty sure that we're going to nail it just because, you know, I know that the way I've built things. is quite transparent and good in the first place. And I'm a firm believer that that's the only way to do it, actually.

No, I agree. I agree. We work very closely with Finisterre, another fashion brand.

Yeah, I know them.

Yeah. It's so interesting to see exactly what you've said, that complexity is actually driven down via the B Corp certification. is a really, really good way to make it more transparent.

It's a complex process. I have to say, it's not an easy thing to do. And it takes a bit of time. I think they're actually, it's even longer now. But I feel like it's worth it. And also, what I really like about B Corp is that it's not as expensive as a lot of the other certifications out there, which doesn't really make sense. Because, you know, if your model business model, the way you operate is good, there should be also a reward for the business in a way, and you should be sort of, you know, honored in a way so you can prove your presence as such. And there are certifications that cost tens of thousands of pounds. And for a lot of smaller businesses, this is pretty much unachievable.

Absolutely.

I do feel B Corp is a really good step for us.

And transparency is a theme that is coming up more and more when I talk to people on this podcast. A number of guests we've had on the show lately have been advocates of transparency and stress the necessity of transparency within business to achieve sustainability goals. On the Laura Jean website, you acknowledge the importance of this and strive to be as transparent as possible. Can I ask, first of all, why is transparency important to you?

And secondly, why is it difficult for 100% transparency to be I have to say that I have a bit of a different take on transparency. I do feel it's very important. And the reason why it's so difficult for fashion businesses is because the supply chain of the fashion— in the fashion industry is extremely complex. It's probably one of the most complex supply chains out there. And I am someone who— it's probably going to sound a bit overconfident, but I'm someone that feels very aware of the challenges that we face. You know, the supply chain, simply because again, I come from this country and I've been very close to the supply chain side more than anything else. It is really fragmented. It's very, you know, spread out. Pretty much a piece of clothing can come from 20 countries just like that, easily with no problem. And it's hard for business owners to actually have full transparency for themselves. So, I often even argue that at this point, I feel like transparency is a bit overrated. Because I do feel like, okay, it's great that we provide transparency, it's great that we strive and make our structures more and more transparent. But I feel like right now, we are at this point where we actually need to be operationally amazing when it comes to sustainability, simply because we are at the breaking point. There are so many issues which are not improving. And we are facing scarcity of raw materials, scarcity of, you know, staff and trained personnel. We are facing issues which a lot of people within the industry understand, but somehow it's very difficult to translate to the public. So very often a lot of companies resort to Transparency, transparency is important. We are not as sustainable, but we are striving to be. And I just feel like it became a bit of a buzzword as well. So as much as I've—

Red herring.

Yeah, in a way, you know, I do feel like, I do feel like we use it very often to sort of justify things that we are not aware of ourselves. And very often I also say to people, I mean, I'm not— I'm a firm believer that business is responsible. And it's also, you know, it's his own place as a business, as an entity, to change the way it operates. It's not consumers. It's not, you know, if you look at history, even like ethical consumers, as a concept has been here for what, 50 years more? So what, what happened then? You know, we are transparent, but, but if If we are 100% transparent and we show people that we are actually not able to improve our operations, so what, what can customer, what would a customer be able to do? You know? So I do feel like the responsibility of being transparent and operationally viable from a sustainable point of view has become a bit of a, like I said, buzzword that's often just thrown out in the air. Oh, we are transparent. Yes, we are. And we are really trying to be, but I feel like for me and this company and moving forward, this is, one of the things. It's not at the forefront. Action should be at the forefront.

Yeah, totally agree. We interviewed Emma Forster-Gearing last year from Viva Barefoot. She spoke about the problematic supply chain in fashion and why examining the supply chain is a good approach when assessing whether a fashion brand is ethical or not. To clarify, she suggested rather than believing what you read on a website, look for real authentic stories from the people making the individual components to assess how ethical ethical a product is. What is your take on that? And are there other things people should look for when sourcing an ethical fashion brand?

See, this kind of proves my point, which I just made about transparency. I do feel like it's really important that we look further, but also it's hard because, you know, how someone in the UK would actually prove or check those facts when the supply chain of this brand is, for instance, in India, or, you know, and a lot of the times, even the brand owners don't have the view, the clear view of their own supply chain. I definitely agree with what you said, but I do think that one of the issues, why are we not able to achieve that, is I call it the big disconnect. You know, it's a, It's because of this huge gap in between the people who are actually making things and the people who are consuming things. You know, the whole outsourcing wave, let's put it that way, because if you think about it, up until the '90s, pretty much a lot of the countries had their own local productions, maybe a bit earlier. However, it all left out, you know, and went to the Global South, East, this kind of way. And on the West is pretty much where we sell stuff in the developing countries. And very often, I'm just gonna ask you, have you ever heard of garment technician? Have you ever spoke to someone like a seamstress to tell you how she feels about it? You know, they don't, they really— and it's all like, right now, even like these people are coupled in under this term, garment workers. But, you know, there are so many different professions within this term. And I feel for someone like me, actually, things are much easier because like I said, I come from this country. It was very close to me. I spent a lot of time in the factories. I spent about 10 years to make sure that my supply chain is functioning. And I have this, you know, very close connection to the people I work with. But this is not the case with everyone. And I'm not saying this to blame brand owners because a lot of the times it's not up to choice. It's just how, you know, their brands are structured. But I do feel that if there is something we should do, this is one of the major things that we should change. You know, there should be a bit of a step back and knowing better your own supply chain as a brand owner will help you make your business more sustainable. And when it comes to consumers, Again, I'm not someone that would agree that consumers should check the facts simply because again, there's so many ways and so many tools which a business can use to even greenwash. I mean, think about it. We know that the big companies like Inditex or H&M, and how many times it was out there and in the air that they've done something wrong and they have this malicious practices based on exploitation and this and that. So what? Did consumers stop buying from them? I don't think consumers— yes, of course, as a consumer, you do cast an economic vote, but then do you really? How do you know? And why would we expect people to be so much educated in something that's not their profession? You know, I do feel there's a bit of an argument there. So it's hard to check on ethical threats on websites. B Corp is a good blueprint. It's a good sign, you know, because they do check and it's a complex process. But pretty much apart from that, I feel, and I'm pretty sure actually, consumers are not able to check further than that.

You know, it's hard. It's really hard.

It is hard. It's hard. How?

You've mentioned a few times that you're not from the UK and you were actually born and raised in Bulgaria and textile production is a major industry there. What do you do differently with the factories in Bulgaria that you work with, and what impact do you envision your approach will have?

From a garment perspective point of view, from making garments perspective, I don't think there is anything much different than— besides maybe the fact that I'm very close to them. So, I go very often, you know, probably, of course, with the COVID situation, a bit less, but before that, I was probably every 2 months I've been, I'm in the factories, I speak to them, you know, I see what they do. I've had my own production for quite a while now, probably about 10 years, a smaller production, but, you know, my own people. And this helps you a lot to understand how difficult every single process is. And I feel a lot of designers and smaller businesses are much better in that sense. Because they are closer to, to the makers. And, and this is one of the most important things. But, um, when it comes to fibers, unfortunately Bulgaria and very few other countries in, in that side of the world have been, um, devastated from raw fibers production. We, for instance, we've been the biggest exporter of silk up until the '90s, and everything was completely privatized and sold out and diminished. So, um, this is one of my passion projects and something I'm pretty much invested into trying to do, um, reviving silk fiber production in Bulgaria. It's— we have the climate, we have the land, we have, you know, the expertise, we have pretty much everything. So that's something I'm really looking forward to, and I feel it's also one of the solutions, the possible business solutions for a lot of businesses out there, because You know, the scarcity in raw fibers is real, and it's becoming more and more and more. And if we don't look up into projects like that, we are not going in a good direction.

And so what are those different fibers that you use in your products, and why do you use them?

When you say different, I have to say that I'm very traditional when it comes to fibers, simply because I've believe silk is probably 70% of everything we do. But I do use a lot of cotton, a lot of linen, a lot of wool. I am a huge believer that clothing should be made from natural fibers. Of course, there are great solutions in innovative fibers as well. But most of them are pretty much far off from scale. So you don't really have access, especially smaller companies And it's just not a viable thing to do. But the reason why I use, and most of us should use natural fibers, is there are very few simple reasons. Natural fibers do last longer. They're much better simply for comfort, and they biodegrade. It's a natural sort of cycle. So if I have to be completely honest, I don't know how the truth got twisted to this extent. And people still, honestly, it's like, you know, you talk to professionals in the fiber industry, like you go to Pitti or any trade show and you're like, how did people become so delusional and misled into, you know, believing that polyester could be more sustainable? Fiber than cotton, for instance. It's just, you know, these narratives which are completely tied to commercial, commercially invested interests from a variety of people, it's just not true, you know, which natural fibers are the best possible thing that you can use and they will always be the best possible thing that you can use, especially if they're done in a sustainable way in an ethical production line. And you know what? Most of them are. Because a small farm in India, even if they wanted, they couldn't really do anything that bad or wrong. It's just small-scale operations usually are way more sustainable by default.

Which leads me on to my next question about sustainable initiatives that you've implemented at Laura Jean to reduce your carbon emissions and waste. And could you tell us a bit about them?

So, first of all, we are relatively small, so I wouldn't say it's, you know, but again, if you build it that way, it's going to last and move on that way. So, one of the things that we do is pretty much all the waste is turned into something. So, you know, let's say we cut a dress from silk and all the leftovers are made on scrunchies, eye masks, and things like that. And that's one of the things that we do. Pretty much everything else, goes into some kind of product, or if there is a bit of a waste, it's tiny, tiny, tiny, and it doesn't really make any difference. But in general, most of the waste is turned into a product. And I feel like this is extremely important for any sort of operations right now, because if you think about how to make your business model more sustainable, one of the solutions, especially when it comes to a design business, is within the design. If you design a product which by default is designed with sustainability in mind rather than novelty or trend, it's very common that it will be a sustainable product anyway. So I feel like one of the solutions is basically how you design it in the first place.

In your opinion, what problems are associated with the textile industry? That contribute to climate change and environmental damage?

Many. Way too many that I would like it, but way too many. You know, the truth is there are a lot of— one of the things that I really want to say to your listeners, and I keep on repeating, is that there is a major issue in this whole conversation about sustainable fashion, and it's basically based on the fact that It's entirely built on misconception and misinformation. You know, even if you look at like the most common numbers, for instance, if you probably heard it yourself, that it takes 2,700 or 2,500 or something like that liters of water to make a t-shirt, right? You probably heard that one. It's far from the truth. It's not true. You know, same as what I've just said about polyester, it's more sustainable because it's longer and recycled and this and that. It's not true. I feel one of the things that we really need to change is start talking with facts, straighten the facts. And this is one of the most, most, most important things.

Surely it makes a difference on where the cotton's grown for the amount of water that's used, or does that not matter? Does that not come into the equation?

Of course it does. But according to Cotton Data Book, for instance, just for instance, on top of my head, I think a couple of years ago they came out with— it's about 1,200 or something. So it's half of those. And actually, it's not even the right figure because it's basically about 500 liters additionally from what it takes as a general consumption.

Organic or not?

No, just the standard cotton.

Because I think it's organic that takes the most water, isn't it? It's one of the things that—

Yeah, but also true, but organic cotton accounts for just about 6% of the whole cotton crops in the world. So you see, there's a lot of, you know, definitely, which comes to say, I'm not, I'm really not trying to tell you that, you know, the fashion industry is very environmentally sound. I'm just saying that I think a lot of those things that we've heard are not true. And even before the conversation I had with you, I just went on to check and this information is on lots of prominent websites.

Where do you think it comes from and why do you think it's talked about like that?

Because it's true, but the major issues are sitting in the overproduction of clothes. One of the things is overproduction of clothes. And the second major issue I feel is the exploitation issues, which again comes with the big disconnect between producers, sellers, makers. This is where a lot of those misconceptions lie as well.

Do you think the fashion industry is responding appropriately and quickly enough to the climate crisis?

No. The reason why I mentioned design is because, again, I'm a true believer that if you have an operational model, a business model that is designed with sustainability in mind, and that goes into the clothes as well, and into every product you produce, then you can respond to the climate crisis, to the social crisis, to the scarcity of fibers, to pretty much any sort of challenge that comes your way in a sustainability kind of way, if that makes sense at all. Fashion is built on the idea that about novelty design, most of the brands out there are making garments with the major presumption Newness for the sake of newness. And that's the major problem. And that could have been relevant for 50 years. But unfortunately, we live in a world where maybe we shouldn't design with novelty in mind. Right now, if you look at most of the fashion companies, you will see that novelty is the only measure. It is the only measure how we truly measure a success of a brand. And that's what sells. And that's what people really are after. So, I feel like there should be a major shift, which I can see happening, especially in consumer, in the consumer's mind. It's probably going to take time. But in general, the industry is extremely inflexible because also, you know, we're talking about one of the biggest industries in the world. It's huge. It's a lot of money. It's a lot of profits. It's a lot of interest tied into the whole thing and in the equation. So, it is not an easy thing to solve. You know, I'm not— I'm never going to stand in between. I feel like we need also a little bit of a balanced approach because a lot of people say, oh, but, you know, companies like H&M shouldn't exist. And I have to say, I don't mind if they don't exist, but the fact is that they exist and they employ thousands and thousands of of people, and it's not as easy to find a solution for those people as well. So yeah, the industry really doesn't respond on time, but also I don't think they have the means to respond, if that makes sense at all.

Yeah, it makes complete sense. In Jeeen, every product is done after extremely careful research and development process. In the clothing and the homeware categories, we only use natural fiber, mainly silk and cotton, but also linen, hemp, and bamboo. We also use innovative man-made fibers like Tencel, known as the sustainable brand of viscose. The fiber also originates from the renewable raw material wood and is created by photosynthesis. It is brought to life in a closed-loop production process. The water used is recycled and fewer chemicals are required during the manufacture. And it goes without saying that the trees used for this product are managed under strict regulations to make sure there is no harm being made to our planet. Is it as scientific as it sounds?

Well, listen, I do try and simplify the conversation when it comes to fibers because I myself, I'm very invested in understanding a lot. I'm very invested in, you know, doing the Silk Project. And there is a lot of science behind every raw fiber out there. You wouldn't believe it, especially what's going on in silk right now is amazing. You know, scientists call it the ancient material of the future, because there's so much innovation that's happening there. But everything really goes together. I'm very interested in trying to find solutions, which sometimes might be, you know, an innovative fiber, sometimes might be the mix in between a traditional fiber and innovative fiber. But again, fibers are the second step of how you design things, because if I anyone out there, if we design again with only novelty in mind and we design a lot in volumes, whichever fiber we use is not going to be sustainable because it's about limiting our production. Production has its own impact and it's not only in fibers. So I often say, you know, don't go crazy into fibers. We can because it's It's our work, but I think, you know, consumers should be educated, but there is no wrong fiber when it comes to, especially to like natural fibers. I would say try and not buy polyesters, try and not buy anything which is artificial simply because it's not, it's not even nice to wear it, you know, but I do realize that a lot of people also don't have a choice. You know, sometimes it's about whether you can afford something or not. Yeah, there's a lot of science in raw fibers and we try and educate all the time. Sometimes we do it successfully, sometimes it's a bit tricky because it's just complex.

Finally, if you could demand 3 things to be immediately implemented across the fashion sector to make it more ethical and environmentally sustainable, what would they be and why?

I think probably Should they be reasonable?

No, let's go as crazy as we can. Let's go crazy. Come on, come on. Let's go for the things that you really want.

Yeah. So first, I would probably just forbid any kind of artificial fibers, you know, or just minimize them as much as I can. So if we can use polyester fibers or polyamide fibers or nylons and stuff, we have to use it to the very minimum just to bond fibers.

On that, a lot of the fibers that you're saying we shouldn't have in clothes that are for mountaineering, sportswear clothes, is it possible to make those highly efficient clothes out of natural fibers?

No, that's why I said we should minimize them. Even, you know, we use a lot of yarns, for instance, and yarns, sometimes you will bond, for instance, something very, very soft let's say cashmere or alpaca or baby alpaca, they're really soft. So you need a bit of nylon to bond the fiber and make it a bit more long-lasting, really durable. So that's why I said minimize them, minimize them just for the fibers that will be used in that. But there is also a lot of innovation and research happening. So hopefully soon we might be able to do it just from natural fibers or man-made fibers, like, you know, Tencel or innovation of a Tencel or something. The second one would probably pay garment workers not the minimum wage, but a good decent wage. And I would say that's one of the major things. If we elevate the industry, we will solve half of the issues we have right now.

You pay an extra 10%, don't you? And sometimes up to more than 30%.

A bit more, yeah. Yeah, every time we can, I really, really try because I feel like, you know, and this has worked miracles. Because when people, every person, we function in a capitalistic frame, right? Every person thrives on being paid better. And, you know, they have the same needs as me and you and everyone else, okay, in a different country, in a different level of income, but still, you know, they still want to go on holiday, have a nice life, have a house, And I just feel like this is the very minimum we should do. We should try and pay garment workers better depending on their skill level. And, you know, that's one of the things I would implement immediately. And probably the third is I would, you know, make sure designers don't design based on trends. This is a bit of a, you know, it's a topic, but it would be really nice because just imagine if, if just, I often imagine myself, what if all the entrepreneurs, especially in my industry and where I function, do things with purpose, not because of, you know, an ego trip, not because we want to buy something, with purpose, that something that's genuinely needed, something that actually people want. I feel like that's going to change a lot of things.

I don't think any of those 3 are that out there. I think the 3rd is probably down to us as the consumer not buying fashion items. And the other 2 are very reasonable and quite possible, potentially.

Yeah, it's just a bit of, we often have this argument and I'm pretty sure you heard it yourself. It should be regulated. How do you regulate the free market though? You know, that is a bit of a question over there as well, especially in a global world where you have markets liberalized. How do you impose regulations? Which doesn't mean we shouldn't regulate. It means that it's not as simple as just simply impose regulations.

It's a mixture. I think it's a mixture.

It is a mixture.

Some governments do it right and some governments do it Better than others.

Yep, exactly. But also some companies do it better than others. So definitely it's like, you know, business is what brings value, right?

Yeah.

And we need to find a way to bring value without being that damaging to the nature, to the environment.

Absolutely. Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you so much for having me and for listening. Hopefully people will find it helpful as well.

It's been absolutely fascinating. And thank you for listening to the Sustainable Business Podcast. If you enjoyed today's content, why not join our post-podcast discussion in our online community at sustainabilitysolved.org? Join now and find a space to collaborate with like-minded professionals, learn more about sustainable business, and inspire others to become more environmental. And if you enjoy this podcast, make sure you subscribe so you get every episode and don't forget to follow Green Element on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.

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