E151/4 - Target 1.5C - Roundtable discussion

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Hi, this is Will Richardson, and welcome to the final episode of Target 1.5. Today, we're rounding up our miniseries by discussing some of the key points from our 3 case studies. We'll be looking at science-based targets, why they're important, and how to set them. We'll be examining how collaboration with suppliers can have a real effect on sustainability. And we'll be talking about the thorny issue of greenwashing. Here to help us are the people you've heard in those case studies: Karen from Grant Thornton, Alex from Mishcon Dhiraj, But sadly, Louisa from Toadstool was engaged with the run-up to COP26. But also, we have Amanda from Forrester Communications, a social change PR agency, and she'll be giving you tips on communicating sustainability wins and how to avoid greenwashing claims. Our guests are all sustainability leaders in their sectors, but a lot of their advice is relevant to everyone. We all know why we're here today. If we don't take action against climate change now and we see a global temperature increase of 2 degrees or more, it will have a catastrophic effect on all of us. Now, Karen, how do you think a 2-degree increase would affect your business?

Hi, Will. Yes, well, I mean, I think firstly, if we think about what a 2-degree increase, the impact that will have on our planet, which will be rising sea levels, increased temperatures, food scarcity, scarcity of drinking water, we can then think about how that can affect business. So we work with a number of different clients, mid-market clients, large and complex clients. And if you think about working with, say, a manufacturing company that have suppliers all around the world, you've got to think about, you know, if you have a factory in Shanghai, for example, and that factory is is close, you know, it's a coastal town, for example. What happens when those sea levels rise? And what happens when there's increased flooding? What happens to that factory? What happens therefore then to the manufacturing business? And therefore, if that manufacturing business were to go out of business, what then happens to companies like ours? So I think it's, you know, it's thinking about, you know, the bigger picture here and thinking about actually the the survival of companies and what that means in the supply chain and in the value chain.

Alex, have you any thoughts?

I think what Karen says is so important in terms of understanding the systemic nature of our world and how close all of our relationships are and the interdependencies that all of us have in our lives and in our businesses. I mean, the 2-degree scenario is widely seen as the global community's accepted limitation, I suppose, of temperature growth to avoid significant and potentially catastrophic changes to the planet, I think was the wording that was originally used in the IPCC framework. But if one looks at the warnings that were released with the most recent report, actually, the science is showing that 2 degrees is going to be much more serious in terms of an outcome than we had anticipated. And I think what we will see is regulators and policymakers taking further and faster action to curb emissions. And so to add to what Karen was saying in terms of disruption to supply chains and international businesses, I think we will see an increased rate of regulatory change. I think we will see more than likely very aggressive tax burdens coming in to drive that change. And I think that that pace of regulatory and legal change is going to be very disruptive for businesses that aren't prepared for it.

That's interesting. And Amanda, have you any thoughts?

So yes, hello, and thanks for having me on here. Really just to build on what the others have said, and completely agree with all those comments, we use communications to protect and improve lives. And sadly, I think there's going to be a lot more communications that's needed around that area. But fundamentally, we're a people business. So one of the things I think to really think about is how 2 degrees is going to dramatically affect our team, our families, the way we live our lives. It's not just about other countries. This is about where we are here too. So even the pandemic gives us a small glimpse of what dramatic changes in health risks can do. If you think about simple things like getting to work becoming complicated with flooding, food harder to source, I think Really just, it is not going to be business as usual. And that's why we're all about action now.

Well, I think we've heard enough to know that we really do need to limit that increase to 1.5 degrees and take action now. But I hear you ask, what kind of action? What can you do as a business to prevent this climate catastrophe? One piece of advice that came out of our case studies was to cut emissions by signing up to science-based targets. A number one priority for Karen in the professional services sector.

The first thing would be to set targets and to set targets in a robust way. So sign up to the Science Based Targets initiative to demonstrate, really demonstrate your commitment to net zero.

Science-based targets are top of mind too for Alex in the legal sector.

I think there's a reasonably clear set of steps. The first is to footprint. The second is to set targets and then to take actions. For us as a firm, we undertook a detailed carbon footprinting process supported by Green Element. We use their software, Compare Your Footprint, to manage our carbon reduction process. So to monitor on an ongoing basis our emissions from our activities. We're learning while we're going, and we're creating the metrics to allow us to do that ever more accurately.

And for Louisa, In food and drink, it's all about measurements.

The most important thing we've done on carbon emissions is to measure those emissions, including our full supply chain and customer emissions. That's Scope 1, 2, and 3 in GHG protocol language. Understanding your emission sources is vital to make sure that you're focusing your resources, both, you know, your human capital and financial resources, on Working to reduce your emissions in the right places.

So my question, following on from what you've all said there, why do you choose methods rooted in science? Why not announce a company-wide ban on all plastics, for instance?

I think the answer, the simple answer is that we have to be driven by the impacts that we want to achieve. And that is the way to look at corporate action these days. You know, we advise our clients to take a purpose-led approach to, to, to, to thinking about their business and how to align their, their commercial activity together with, um, environmental and, and, and social impact. Um, if, if you're going to do that in a, in a focused way, um, with a purpose to achieve something, you have to look at what it is you're trying to achieve. You have to look at the targets. You have to look at the outcome you want to, to, to achieve. In relation to climate change, obviously there is a clear scientific argument. There is a clear scientific set of targets and objectives. We've discussed why we need to reduce or restrain global warming to 1.5 degrees if we can, but certainly below 2 degrees. We know that the most effective way we can do that is by decarbonizing our economies, and we know the pathway to do that. We also know how to do it for the most part. And so taking that scientific approach is the approach that allows us to achieve the objective that we want to get to.

Karen?

Yeah, completely, completely agree. And I think it's thinking about looking at all of the impacts that a business has and saying something like, actually, we're just going to focus on reducing plastic, is just looking at one. So we need to look at the impacts of our whole business. And I think with the science-based targets, You know, there's that opportunity to have that short-term target which drives action, but also then, you know, coming in will be that long-term target that will get us to that net-zero place. So I think with the science-based targets, they drive action, they provide a trajectory of how you're going to get there. And with that whole measurement, you can actually see where you need to make those changes.

Another thing everyone agreed on was the value of collaboration, whether that's working with your supply chain or other companies trying to make a difference.

We have a very exciting campaign launching in October in the lead-up to COP26 where we've brought together 25 other incredible breweries, some very big, some very small, from social enterprises like Tap Social Movement and organic breweries like Stroud Brewery to some of the biggest names in the industry, all will be using surplus bread that we are helping them to source, prep, and to use within their brew processes as part of a campaign to raise awareness about the need for collaboration that needs to happen at a government level amongst world leaders at COP26. It's also part of us educating other breweries about how to use bread.

And once we start measuring what we're doing and what we're doing together, the understanding of the business increases and brings different aspects of the business together on this kind of collaborative approach to climate change. I think it goes back to nobody can do this on our own. We're all in this together and it's not a competitive environment. We all need to make those changes in order to achieve our target.

For law firms, there's a good community there. I mean, there's a good community of law firms anyway in amongst themselves, but specifically around climate change, there are initiatives that are appearing. The Net Zero Lawyers Alliance, for example, was launched during Climate Action Week for London. And our firm working with some other firms has recently just launched a thing called the Greener Litigation Pledge, in which firms commit to think about the way in which they run litigation to reduce emissions.

There's obviously a lot of collaboration going on in your sectors. Karen, what makes it so important?

I think without collaboration, you're just one single voice, but with collaboration, you've got the power of the many. And I think that's so, so impactful. If we look at, you know, how we drive change, the beauty of collaboration is you've got lots of people, lots of individuals, lots of businesses driving for the same thing. And just to give you an example, in sort of professional accountancy bodies from around the world have joined together to fight climate change and are part of the Prince of Wales Accounting for Sustainability Project. So this is a network of 2.5 million professional accountants and students working with businesses and government in 179 countries. So if you think of all of those individuals, all of those individual 2.5 million people that are all being mobilized to drive change, it means that together those individuals will have a huge impact rather than just say, for example, Grant Thornton trying to do something completely on their own.

Alex, a few thoughts.

Fundamentally, we are talking about changing the way in which we live. and the way in which we operate. We've sort of gone through this door where the scales have fallen away from our eyes in a real sense. I mean, people have been talking about this for a long time and pushing for it, but I think there is a real understanding that we have to take account of things we've never taken account of before. And we have to look at therefore changing our systems. We have to account for the externalities of our actions in the way that we live, in the way that we operate our business. That means that we have to change our legal structures. We have probably— we'll have to make some changes to our political structures. Certainly, we have to make changes to our professional structures and the way that we work and we operate, what we take account of, what standards are acceptable, what measures of success are there. And those kinds of changes can only come from the community that operates within the rules and sets the rules and sets the frameworks. And so, From a legal sector perspective, for example, there are now a proliferation of different initiatives trying to bring lawyers together. The Chancery Lane Initiative brings individual lawyers together from all sorts of different practices to look at how to come up with new clauses and model documents that can address climate change in existing transactions and so on and so forth. We worked with a group of other firms to bring together a thing called the Greener Litigation Project. which seeks to do the same in litigation, looking at litigation process, looking at how we run dispute resolution, and taking account of these factors there. There are others, in-house counsel within firms coming together in the Net Zero Lawyers Alliance, which is sort of the other half of the coin from the Lawyers for Net Zero Alliance, which is private practice firms. Now, without getting too Monty Python about everything, you can see all of these collaborations coming together. But fundamentally, the reason that they have to is because if business doesn't come together to change the systems in which it works and the ways in which they work, we're not going to get there.

Now, I want to bring Amanda in here. How is collaboration viewed by the stakeholders of an organization?

Well, thanks, Will. I mean, I think it's critical at the end of the day, and stakeholders not only welcome it, but also really expect it. And really building on what the others said, it's because collaboration is so key to enabling action. So firstly, by working with peers, it can provide confidence. It's sort of in this taking this first, often difficult steps. So it creates a sense of, well, okay, if they're doing it, then we can do it too. And then there's also alongside that a sense of expectation and even competition, which is often helpful. So if they're doing it, all right, well, we must do it. And then finally, perhaps most importantly, it's the knowledge sharing point. You know, this is really hard. Let's do it together. Let's help each other. How can we accelerate? So, you know, we're facing really difficult challenges. And organizations that are seen as active and generous and sharing and, you know, leading the way are going to gain significantly in trust and loyalty, but also in getting the job done and creating the change. So, really key.

So, say I'm a business owner. If I'm listening to this right now, and I'm interested in starting to collaborate, how do I broach that with other companies?

Ask, reach out, and just start the conversation. I think in our, in our experience, that, that has been the best way. Be specific about what, what you have in mind, and what you're trying to achieve. Be able to share that with the party that you're engaging with. And just open the conversation. For example, we have a catering business that supplies our office. And we've been discussing reducing the environmental impacts of the food and drink that we consume within the business. And we started a conversation with them about how we might do that. We've ended up forming a joint committee together with them to discuss how we approach that. How we reduce container waste and plastic waste, how we reduce the food miles, how we start doing Meat-Free Mondays, which we launched 2 weeks ago within the business. And all of those ideas have just come out of starting the conversation. So my advice is start the conversation.

Yeah, exactly the same for me, really. But I think it's about identifying who you would like to collaborate with. And I think you need to think about that quite carefully. So, you know, thinking about, has that other organisation got similar goals to you and a similar purpose? And as Alex said, start the conversation, reach out, find out who you need to talk to, and find out what's important to both of you, and see if there is some kind of action that you can take together. And what you normally find is once you start the conversation and you start doing that, as Alex said, it leads to much bigger things than the original thing that you were wanted to collaborate on. So again, just start the conversation.

Now, while collaboration is important, it's also vital to make wise choices when it comes to working with other organizations. I want to move on to the contentious issues of greenwashing. So Alex, is greenwashing going to stop us reducing our global emissions to 1.5 degrees?

I don't know that it's going to stop us, Will, if I'm honest with you. But I think it's a fundamental problem and it goes to integrity. And that is the risk. I actually think that almost the awareness of greenwashing might help us, if that makes sense. If you look at the way that society is expecting and now expecting businesses to act, and you look at the way that business, even before the pandemic, was coming together to say, we have a wider purpose that we need to take account of. Social and environmental factors and other stakeholders in how we run our businesses. That requirement, if you like, has already been accepted, I think. You now see the regulators right across the piece stepping up to say, and we're not going to stand for greenwashing here. You see this from the Competition and Markets Authority. You see it from the Advertising Standards Authority. And you see now creative activists and creative litigators looking to use things like the OECD guidelines to hold companies to account for what they're saying publicly about how they're behaving. So I think that the very fact that you've got a term greenwashing is helpful because it's something that can be held up to people and businesses understand that reputation is everything. And if you're caught greenwashing, you're caught fibbing. And if you're caught fibbing, you destroy trust. And if you destroy trust, you lose value. So I think the concept of greenwashing, I think the fact that it is named and the fact that it is being called out by regulators as well as by the community at large is very positive.

That's a really interesting angle, Alex. I mean, I think that is greenwashing, or was greenwashing, maybe not so much now, a lack of understanding, a lack of education about what is actually really necessary. So, you know, if we think about when business started this journey years and years ago, and it was more of a finger in the air, let's reduce Let's think about what we've— how we've reduced our emissions in the past. What should we go for, 5% this year? Sort of finger-in-the-air kind of stuff. It was that lack of understanding that actually, that's not going to make a huge amount of difference to our planet and to make that change. And business transformation in every single industry is what's needed for us to reach that net zero. So, I suppose I'm trying to be positive about greenwashing, you know, and thinking that actually, I'm hoping, as you said, with regulation increasing, with businesses being bought up, you know, being called to account for this, that actually companies are going to start thinking, actually, no, I need to do this properly. I need to sign up to science-based targets. I need to make sure that I'm not just saying something that's not really true. How am I actually going to get there?

I think what you say is really important. I think perhaps a clear understanding of what we do mean by greenwashing is useful, Will, in this. And I say that because I think that greenwashing is defined as holding yourself out for doing something that you're not. is not acceptable. And that is the thing that I think people are focusing on taking action for. I think drawing on what Kate's saying, it's so important that businesses that are trying to point themselves in the right direction, that are trying to work out what this means for them, and that are trying to take action are supported and are not scared off from taking action by over-officiousness. And so I think there's 2 different things. But I think that the supportive, encouraging framework and partnerships, going back to sort of collaboration, to encourage people to change and to be confident in being changed and not being afraid to take steps for want of not quite getting it right is really, really important as well.

And Amanda, have you got any advice to help businesses avoid greenwashing claims?

Yes, thank you. And, you know, it's It's a lot of what has been really said. It's about so much of the key is evidence on this and the ability to back up your claims. It's not about knowing all the answers sometimes, because as it's just been pointed out, these are difficult journeys, but it is about having a sort of a clarity behind what you're saying. So, I think there's something around thinking about communications as a tower, and if you've got a short-form headline or an unpack message or a sort of grab type piece of communications at the top of the tower, um, can you really follow that down? And is it underpinned by detail at the bottom of the tower? And are those facts available for all to see? So it's a sense of, um, of, you know, of really making sure that everything is authenticated. And back to what, um, was being said around trust. So I think we are sadly seeing more greenwash claims, um, swirling around as people are trying to speak up because they haven't necessarily got some of those details underneath. And there's also a lot of complexity around bigger areas like ESG when different labels mean different things at the moment and people don't know, they're not looking at things in the same way. But we are also seeing, as has been pointed out, much more greenwash being called out, which is good. So we can't expect people to say it's better for the climate now unless there is evidence to sort of back that up or show what you're doing. And that's So important for trust.

And I think that's really linked, Amanda, to what you were saying, that sort of scaffolding approach and that message. And it's also about when companies are talking about when they are planning to reach net zero, that there is a robust plan in place. And I think companies have been criticized in the past, haven't they, in terms of, well, this is where we want to get to. But actually, we haven't got any idea how we're going to get there. It's like a, it's like a loose term. And I think the danger there is that organisations, therefore, lose credibility, lose their reputation, because it's so important to have that robust, clear strategic plan in place to ensure that you get to that point.

If I can just come back in here, and I think that's the really important thing at the moment around, it's okay not to know the answer, if you're genuinely seeking to find the answer. Because, you know, that's the— so many pledges have been set and we need those in order to take us on that journey. It's then how you're going about finding the answer, which then builds that trust and integrity and reporting back on it and talking about things that don't work as well as things that do work. It's that sort of genuine openness to progress, which is so important at the moment. And actually it loops us back neatly to that point around collaboration earlier. So, you know, doing things together, sharing, talking about it, sense of a journey.

This is so interesting. So basically, clear and honest communication allows businesses to share what they are doing to tackle the climate crisis, as well as educate their customer base. I'd like to touch on morale now. In your experience, Do you think people feel better because they're working for a business that takes its environmental responsibilities seriously, Karen?

Absolutely. People want to work for a responsible business, and the demand from people coming into the business is huge. And for me, I must get a number of emails each day, each week, sort of asking me what we're doing in particular areas. and ideas of how we could do things better, and asking why we're not doing things. And I think it was really interesting this year, before we had our graduate intake, is that I actually had a phone call from somebody who hadn't yet joined the firm to ask those same questions. So, I think these are questions that are really, really important to people. People want to know that they're working for an organization that is doing the right thing, that's being responsible. And if you think about that, it's a business imperative now, and it's so key for business survival that actually, for people joining, they want to work, you know, they want to work for a firm that will be there in the long term. So, it's absolutely essential.

Alex?

Yes, we have similar experience in our business. Whether it's talking to graduates, whether it's talking to our trainee cohort, whether it's talking to our legal apprentices and our other apprentices that we bring into the business, this is a top-of-list issue for all of them. So, I think it's a top-of-list issue, environmental responsibility, but also social responsibility. And I think the two go together. I don't think you can talk effectively about one without without talking about the other. So it's important for people in a sort of visceral, emotional sense, I think, and also thinking that, you know, that what they're doing is being done responsibly. But I think more than that, for businesses, particularly advisory businesses that get this and understand the value of what they can bring, through their profession, it's actually massively exciting because this is the space in which there is real innovation taking place. This is the place in which there is real growth taking place. This is the place where all the money is going. And if you care about this stuff, for the first time in the professions anyway, there is the opportunity to bring that care into your profession and into your work and align the two together in a really meaningful way. And for that to be accepted. I mean, if you look in the investment sector, for example, everyone is falling over themselves to have an ESG fund. They've got banks of people now trying to work out actually what does this mean and how do we work out what the metrics are and how do we report properly and avoid greenwashing in our investment things and report back to investors who are asking questions about actually what did my pension achieve all those years I was working? Um, and, and for us in our firm, we've built the practice I run, Mishcon Purpose, within the firm as a dedicated, um, practice in the business. It works across integrating our expert lawyers from different bits of the firm to help our clients understand what the challenges are and to get across them. And for our young lawyers to see that we've got a business that's doing that is hugely exciting. I'm really lucky. We launched this business in April last year, and I've currently got sitting in in my office with me, not right now, but most of the time, a trainee. Now, that shows the commitment that the firm has made to delivering, you know, our impact, not only in the way that we run our business, but also how we advise our clients. And our trainee cohorts see that, and it's empowering.

And what about stakeholders? How have they responded to your successes? Karen?

I think what's happening is that they are also being more demanding, and they are asking us about our successes in a number of ways. They're expecting us to be moving in that right direction. And it's interesting, Alex, you mentioned ESG. I mean, you can't turn around these days without hearing the ESG term, can you? And I think for clients, you know, they're looking at it and suppliers are looking at it in its entirety and maybe not looking at it in its separate terms. So we get a huge amount of client questionnaires coming in, sort of asking because they're wanting to look at their own supply chain and looking at what we are doing in each of those particular areas. They want to see that they're doing business with somebody that is thinking about all of these different components. So the environmental, the social, and the governance aspect. And again, are doing the right thing and driving change and creating a really positive impact in each of those spaces. And it's the same in tender documents as well. And also, what's been really interesting over the years is seeing how the questions have changed. So, in the past, as an example, a question may have been, are you ISO 14001 accredited? It was a tick box. That was it. Whereas now, the questions we're getting are really, really detailed because businesses want to see the journey that we've been on. They want to see the progress that we are making and questions breaking down into the different scopes over the different years, how we've managed to reduce our impact in terms of figures, but also how we're doing it. And I just see that to be a continuing trend over the next couple of years.

Alex?

You know, our key stakeholders are our people and our clients. They're obviously not our only stakeholders, but those are top of the tree. Our people are, I think, a bit like I was saying about young people joining the business, that same enthusiasm is there right through the firm. You know, we certified as a B Corp earlier this year. And Will, as you know, that's the end of a process and the beginning of another one. But the response to the first process and the engagement with the first process to get through that process and to put in place our implementation plan going forward, and the response to that certification internally has been a tidal And that's really exciting because it allows us then to match our engagement with our clients. And that understanding and that awareness across the business then allows us to engage with clients on a much more profound level on this stuff. From a client point of view, clients have been interested in the certification and we Um, um, we, we've been approached by a number of different businesses in the B Corp family and outside it, um, for, for support because they see that flag, I suppose. But that's kind of the, the tip of it. I, I think that what we really see from our clients is that, um, they are looking for, um, advisors that really understand this stuff. And don't just, you know, they're not looking for lawyers who, yeah, okay, we can read this and we can tell you what the law is, but we can actually really tell you what this means. We understand what it means in our own business because of the way we've taken it and the way we're dealing with it. We can tell you that, but also we understand the interconnectedness of it. And the final thing I'd say on that stakeholder piece is exactly what Karen's saying, is our experience is that To deliver on your own commitments and your own responsibilities as a business, you have to engage with your stakeholders. You can't do it alone. You can't decarbonize alone. You certainly can't deal with your Scope 3 emissions without talking to your supply chain, talking with the companies who produce your IT stuff, which is so carbon intensive, without, for us, thinking about the courts and counterparties on use of paper, on physical meetings. And so if you're going to change the way that you operate, you have to do it with your stakeholders. And yeah, our experience is when you reach your hand out, it's normally warmly taken.

Amanda, how would you suggest overcoming those obstacles from a marketing perspective?

So I think what's really interesting in listening to Alex and Karen talking is, you know, the key around all this is authenticity. And it's very— this is about actually taking action oneself, as well as, you know, if you're a consultant, as well as telling others what to do. And at the heart of this, it's, you know, change has to sit at the center of an organization and then be delivered out, which then equals into— it's what, as we've already heard, employees are expecting. Climate change is now the number one concern of people in the UK. I think that's just been reported today, 71% of people saying it's a concern. which is a massive shift in opinion. So it's an employee issue, recruiting and retaining the best people, but it's also a business issue in terms of customers. And that's moving really, really fast. So you've got governments putting climate action on public procurement contracts. You've got B2B sales massively looking at Scope 3 emissions and wanting all that detail that Karen was talking about. It's okay not to have all the answers, but it's not okay to be doing nothing. So, if you look at a brand overall and who they are, this point of taking action has to sit core of them as an organization. And then that naturally feeds into marketing and what you're doing and the evidence of how you're doing it. and creating that trusted organization. So, you know, people want to be working with organizations who are solution providers and who can work with them to tackle their own challenges. I think that's what's really coming through at the moment.

Interesting. Finally, I'm going to go around the room now. Can you give us your personal top tip to businesses who want to pursue a sustainable business model?

Alex. Think about what it means to your business first. And if you're thinking about trying to articulate your purpose, understand that that should be a why do I exist? Why does our business exist? question. And I think in formulating it, you should think about 3 different things. I think you should make sure that it's authentic. to your business. Um, I think you should make sure that it is inclusive of your stakeholders. And I think lastly, it needs to be inspirational. So start at home and think about what matters to you.

Karen?

And after you've done that—

Hard to go after that.

After you've done all that, um, I'm probably going to go a little bit more practical, down the practical side, is if you want to start to decarbonize your business, you need to understand the impacts of your business. You need to, and that's from an operational perspective, but also thinking about the behavior of people within the business. You need to measure those impacts. And then set yourself science-based targets to allow you to meet short-term goals and long-term goals of, or the long-term goal of reaching net zero.

And Amanda, have you got anything to add?

Yes, I'd just say that a good— use what's already there. So, you know, initiatives such as UN Race to Zero, which has got clear goals and resources available for businesses of all sizes and is a great starting point. And by setting a goal, it's then really tapping into existing internal skills and ideas and really critical interest in tackling climate change and creating a sort of a team of interest to help you identify how to get there. So find your allies internally and externally that can help you take the first step. Because that's about getting going and moving forwards.

Amazing. So thank you so much for that. And thanks very much for joining us. I think it's clear from our guests' experiences, there are some key focal points that all businesses should focus on. Work out your carbon footprint by using legitimate science-based methodologies and implement practical systems and operations to reduce those emissions. Collaboration works both within and outside your organization. It offers lots of opportunities to help the environment and boost your reputation as a business. Greenwashing is a legitimate threat, which is why these businesses and we here at Green Element recommend a science-focused approach. We don't recommend offsetting. If we take these steps towards a low-carbon future, we'll help to ensure the global temperature rise doesn't exceed 1.5 degrees. There's just enough time to make a difference, but every single business needs to start today to ensure our survival as a species. I hope you've enjoyed this miniseries as much as we have, and we hope it's given you the know-how and the inspiration to continue your sustainability journey with confidence. If you'd like to ask our guest panelists a question or share your thoughts about the topics we've talked about, you can join us for the post-podcast discussion at sustainabilitysolved.org. And just in case you didn't know, Sustainability Solved is a neutral platform for sustainability professionals. Please get involved. It's a great place to meet like-minded people, expand your business network, and get collaborating. And if you've enjoyed this podcast, make sure you subscribe so you get every episode. And don't forget to follow Green Element on LinkedIn, Twitter, and Instagram.