E153 - Mel Blackmore from Blackmores

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Welcome to the Green Element Podcast, where we meet business leaders and innovators transforming their operations to be more environmentally and socially sustainable, and in the process, help you on your sustainability journey. I'm your host, Will Richardson. Today we welcome Mel Blackmore, the Managing Director of Blackmores, an award-winning consultancy which specializes in environmental quality and risk ISO standards. Mel is also the host of her very own podcast, The ISO Show. Welcome, Mel. Thank you very much for joining us today.

Hi, Will. Great to be here. Thanks for having me on.

So, how did your involvement with ISO standards come about?

Well, it was actually many years ago when I was at university, and I did a module on total quality management. And I don't know, it was something about it that captivated me, quite sadly. And that then led me into the world of ISO standards throughout my career. And More recently, sustainability standards.

The ISO field is a very broad one. Are there particular ISOs where your passions lie?

Yes. Well, I mean, all of the ISO standards are based on Deming's model on continual improvement. So, standards are actually my guilty pleasure. I know that's sad to admit, but it's the sustainability standards that have really, really kind of outshone the other standards in recent years. So many people have heard of ISO 14001, that's the most widely recognized environmental standard, but there are now sector-specific standards in environmental management such as the Sustainable Event Management Standard, which was launched at the Olympic Games in London 2012, and that standard is actually called ISO 2012:1.

And so what role do you think ISO standards have in driving businesses towards a low-carbon future?

Well, they help to provide a framework for any business. So if we look at how standards are actually created, it's not just one person saying, oh, this is the way that we should reduce our carbon. It's a collective of countries coming together and industries that are represented in each of those countries that come together to identify what best practice is. So, if we look at a standard for energy management, that was a British standard originally, back in 2009, when we first started getting involved in energy management. And that then grew in demand at a global level. So, What happens then is that there is almost like a call for papers for countries to then say, are you interested in energy management? And typically there are at least 30 countries that come together to actually then create standards committees to then create a standard of best practice. And in this case, that standard is now ISO 50001, the energy management standard. So, The standards are provided to provide a framework for best practice. So, if an organisation's scratching their heads thinking, well, where do I even begin with energy management? It helps them to put together all of the key requirements that they might need. So, understanding what energy they're using, understanding the impact of that into— in terms of GHG, emissions, and looking at setting energy performance indicators and controls to reduce their energy consumption and to mitigate risk as well. So, in essence, it provides like a blueprint for, in that particular case, managing energy. But of course, there are many other standards in sustainability now.

And say when a company wants to, we're looking at this energy management standard, do they need to use a consultant, or can they just, can they just buy the standard and read through it and do it themselves? Or what does the process look like?

Yeah, great question. I mean, the standards are available to buy from any standards body. So in the UK, it's BSI, the British Standards Institution. The standards are documents that range from around about 30 pages, but ultimately With ISO 50001, that's a specification, so that provides you, you know, very clearly in black and white what is required of that, that standard. And an organisation can purchase that, read it, and apply it themselves. There's absolutely no reason why they can't do that. But the reason why a lot of businesses tend to use consultants like Blackmores is because they they don't necessarily understand how that standard applies to their business, how they can implement it, and how they can get maximum impact from it. So that's where they would use a consultancy like Blackmores, or we've got an online membership where they can actually do it themselves at their own time. That's called the ISology Hub. So they don't necessarily need to work in collaboration with a consultancy firm. They could use an online tool like the ISology Hub.

Okay. We'll go into this. That sounds fascinating. Well, let's go. You've brought it up now, so let's— so, what, Isology?

Yeah. So, last year, I mean, we've been established for 15 years now, and we've always had this traditional consultancy model where we work on a one-to-one basis with clients, and we work with clients across many different sectors. But when we were affected by COVID last year, we all switched to remote working, which was fine. But already, as part of our 2030 strategy, we knew we wanted to be able to provide support on sustainability standards to a wider audience. As we have many listeners overseas and also clients overseas, but obviously, it's difficult being able to provide that one-to-one service in person or even, you know, online in some cases. So we actually applied for an Innovate UK grant, which was to help businesses to create sustainable solutions through innovative means. And that basically helped us to fast-track probably about 2 or 3 years, uh, a membership model that we wanted to introduce. So, ISology is basically the methodology to implement any ISO standard, but you can do it yourself online via a membership portal. And that's what we created with the funding.

Oh, brilliant. And so, If a company wanted to do, say, go through ISO 50001, then they would be able to use the ISology portal in order to be able to, I guess, complete it and then get audited by it?

Yeah, so the idea is, is that, that a member can join and go through that whole journey themselves. Now, at the moment, we've got the ISO roadmap for ISO 14001 there, but we have also got content in there on ISO 50001 and other standards, so e-learning courses, video tutorials, templates, check sheets, handbooks, and that sort of thing.

And the auditing at the end of it in different countries, how do you point people in the right direction?

We'd always recommend for companies in the UK, that is, to achieve certification with an accredited certification body. Okay, so, and this is the same for other countries as well for your international listeners. There are unfortunately websites where you can go and just purchase a certificate like you could with anything really, but it's not worth the paper it's written on. I'd always recommend going with a UCAS accredited certification body. UCAS is the— not the university UCAS, it's the United Kingdom Accreditation Service, and that's the one and only government body that accredit certification bodies like BSI, SGS, Lloyd's, and you will know the difference because there is not just the, you know, ISO 14001 sign on there, but there will be a crown and a tick. So, if you see any white vans just with a tick and ISO 14001, it's not really legitimate. So, we can help, you know, we can basically put our clients, our members, in contact with any of those certification bodies. But if you go onto the UCAS website, and if you search by standard, you can actually identify which certification bodies in your country are accredited to offer certification.

Oh, brilliant. Oh, cool. That's a really good tip. And you've been working in this sector for, you've just said, 15 years. Have you seen the industry change in this time?

Yes. Well, first of all, standards are so much more flexible than they were 15 years ago. I mean, previously, the standards were quite prescriptive, you know, especially with standards like ISO 9001, you might have had to have had 20 mandatory procedures, whereas now, it's all based on your own business's risks and opportunities. Okay. So, and that's particularly true for the sustainability standards as well. And I think probably One of the biggest shifts we've seen on sustainability standards is the, I guess, the level of commitment to them now. I think, you know, 5, 10 years ago, businesses were coming to us because they wanted to tick a box for a tender. Whereas now, the difference is, is they want to actively make a difference. I don't mean to sound cheesy, but they do actually want to take action. And to see what the impact of that is and to be able to have a mechanism for monitoring and measuring their results. So I think, you know, 5, 10 years ago, businesses would probably pay lip service to environmental policies and standards, whereas now we find that a lot of businesses are looking to go above and beyond. And that's why we're seeing such a huge demand in certainly the carbon verification and carbon neutrality standards.

Why do you think they're wanting to go above and beyond now, whereas before they didn't?

Well, I think there's a number of drivers. You know, there's more expectation from key stakeholders now, without a shadow of a doubt. I mean, before, it was definitely a supply chain requirement to achieve certification to ISO standards. In certain sectors, it was simply a passport to trade. You know, if you're looking at the data center industries or construction, manufacturing. Whereas now I think businesses are looking to, yeah, take it seriously, which, you know, it's high time that they did. And obviously there's a difference between having an environmental policy and saying, yes, we have got a commitment to sustainability compared to actually proving it. So the difference between just, you know, saying that you've got an environmental policy and You know, don't get me wrong, I'm sure businesses have some great environmental policies and procedures in place, but how effective are they and how can they demonstrate that that is actually making a difference, that they are reducing their carbon footprint, they are reducing their waste, they are reducing their costs? So, having a system in place just helps now to provide that mechanism to demonstrate that commitment and credibility. So, I think that's kind of been the main change really that we've seen in that level of commitment.

And what changes would you like to see in the next 9 years leading up to 2030 to address the climate emergency?

Yeah, well, there are a number of things, but I know we've only got a limited amount of time. I mean, let's take ESOS as an example. So, you know, for many of your listeners that need to comply with ESOS, that's the Energy Saving Opportunity Scheme that's been driven by an EU directive. I think what's been quite frustrating there is that Businesses have reported on their energy consumption and carbon, but they haven't actually done anything about it. So, it would be brilliant if the government can encourage businesses or even make it mandatory to actually demonstrate what they're doing in terms of energy reductions and implementing energy opportunities for optimizing Resource resources that they're using within an organization. So, you know, as far as ESOS compliance is concerned, the government have said, well, if you've got 50,001, then you know you don't necessarily need to do ESOS energy audits, which is a good thing. But I think it's encouraging more things like that. So things like ISO 14064 on carbon verification, it would be brilliant if. more businesses could use that methodology to verify their carbon footprint because they know that it is a credible methodology. Similarly, with carbon neutrality, we all know that businesses are on a mission now to be carbon neutral. But again, using the standards as that definitive and proven methodology to give it that credibility. So I think I'd like to see growth in those areas really, and encouragement from from government and down supply chains to see that evidence.

That makes a lot of sense. And do you feel the current ISO standards are in keeping with a low-carbon future, or do you feel there has to be an evolution of these standards to achieve a low-carbon future?

Oh, it's an interesting one. We do work with businesses to implement ISO 14001, so obviously that's the main framework for environmental management. But then those businesses where energy is the biggest significant, you know, it's a huge cost to their business and therefore impact on the environment as well, they focus on the energy management. But it would be great to have a more holistic view on environmental standards. But I do see that there is a need for sector-specific standards where, again, there is a significant cost to the environment, such as the events industry. And, you know, we've seen the events industry come on leaps and bounds. Obviously, we've had this blip because we've had COVID, but now, you know, we're seeing our events management clients organizing live events again, and they are definitely coming back as more sustainable events without a shadow of a doubt. So, it would be good for organisations to embrace sustainability and bring standards into the fold, regardless of whether they go for certification or not. You know, you can cherry-pick aspects of these standards to create that holistic framework to develop your sustainability roadmap.

Is there an area that isn't covered by ISO yet that you'd like to see covered?

There is, I think, a bit of a weakness when it comes to carbon neutrality at the moment. So, I mentioned about a standard called PAS 2060. So that is the carbon neutrality standard. But you'll notice that when I talked about ISO 14001, it, you know, it's got ISO at the beginning of it. So that stands for International Standards Organization. You'll notice that the carbon neutrality didn't have the ISO there. It's got a PAS in front of it. So PAS is a publicly available specification. So businesses can do whatever they want with that. And I think that needs to become an ISO. And I think it's only a matter of time. But I think when we looked at the energy management standard, that very quickly went from being a British standard. And by the way, many, many standards that are now global standards actually started off as British standards. One of the most popular standards as well is information security. And that started out as a British standard, but there were more companies in Japan that were actually certified to it. And that's how it started to become a bit of a global movement on information security. So I do think there is a demand for a global movement around carbon verification and neutrality standards. And I think it's, you know, the certification bodies are trying to keep up with that at the moment. Not all of them are accredited to offer verification services against that. And you notice I mentioned verification, not certification. So this is where it's very different to standards like ISO 14001, because it's a bit like, you know, putting a car in for an MOT. You know, you might drive it out of the garage and the exhaust drops off. It's only kind of going to pass on that day. And it's a little bit like with carbon neutrality, you only actually take a finite period of time. So that could be a 12-month period typically. And you have to basically identify your carbon footprint, GHG emissions, and have a carbon reduction plan before you can then do your offsetting. And it's an area for improvement, I think, when it comes to certification bodies, not just in the UK, but globally. I think there's a huge opportunity there. And I think because, you know, some of the certification bodies are a little bit behind the times right now, we've actually developed our own methodology and trademarked it, which is called Carbonology. And we've basically taken all the elements of those 2 standards on carbon verification and carbon neutrality to create a sustainability roadmap to comply with both of those standards. So I think that's definitely the way forward in that looking at it again as a holistic view, and that it's, it's something that businesses need to embed within their organization's culture in order to be able to make a significant difference in the future.

Brilliant.

And your own podcast, The ISO Show, you share success stories from your clients in the context of sustainability. Can you tell us a few success stories that you think could inspire our listeners?

Yeah, sure. I mean, one of the reasons I, I started the podcast was to dispel some myths around ISO standards, that it's not, it's not a tick box exercise. I think many thought it was, you know, some years ago. And also, yeah, as you've rightly said, Will, to share some of those success stories and tips. And yeah, there are a number of them. Let's take Chargemaster as an example. They, when we first started working with them a number of years ago to implement ISO 14001 and 9001, they were a small manufacturing company producing EV charging points in the UK. As we were working with them to develop the systems, they grew exponentially, and they're now BP Chargemaster, so they provide most of the charging points in the UK for electric vehicles. Another story is a small air conditioning company that started out in their garage, just a couple of people, and they wanted to have systems for success because they'd They'd come from much larger organizations, successful organizations, but they felt that they wanted to do it their way and in a better way, in a more sustainable way. So, we implemented 3 standards, the environmental standard, quality, and health and safety, as an integrated quality, environment, health and safety system. And at the time, I remember saying to them, are you sure you want to go down this road? You know, there's only 2 of you at the moment. And they said, yes, yes, because we know that this, this is, this is the way that we want to run our business, and we've got ambitious plans for growth. So, I said, okay, that, that's fine. So, we did that. And yeah, they went on to, to being a really successful, you know, multimillion-pound organization in their field. And, uh, yeah, really, really proud to, you know, to work with, you know, proactive and dynamic organizations like that, that do want a system in place so that they can focus on growing the business.

I mean, that sounds awesome. And so that integrated ISO standards approach, is it easy for companies to integrate all 3 standards? How does that work?

It is easier now because all of the standards, I think it was actually since the Sustainable Event Management Standard ISO 2012:1 was launched, They all have this common framework now, which is called Annex L, which basically means you can integrate numerous standards together, and it's so much easier. So, there is this common framework where there are basically 8 key elements in all of these ISO standards. So, yeah, so if you've already got 9001, you're thinking, oh yeah, we'd love to get the environmental standard. much easier now to integrate that. And I think, you know, gone are the days where you'd have a separate quality manual or environmental manual. It should just be one holistic framework for managing your business in a sustainable way. So yeah, we have clients, an organization called Brand Fuel, an events management company. I've interviewed them, you'll hear all about their story and success through achieving 2012:1, even through COVID. They were absolutely amazing and the way that they diversified and almost became a broadcasting organization during that time. They're a fantastic example on how they've rebranded their system. So, the system is actually called the Engine Room. So, you don't have to— it doesn't need to be an environmental manual. You can rebrand it to suit your business's culture.

Brilliant. It was amazing to see those events companies, wasn't it? And what they what they had to overcome and achieve. I mean, what, it's just hard, just really hard for them.

Yeah, and it was amazing, you know, how innovative they were at the time and how communication played a really key part in their business. Yeah, it was a really interesting story and how they overcame that, and I think as a result of it, a much stronger business.

Right, and what advice would you give to an organization that hadn't yet implemented an appropriate ISO, but we're in the position to do so.

You know, you don't necessarily need to go for certification if you don't want. You can just use the framework within your business. So I'd evaluate, you know, what are the benefits for your company? So I'd ask questions like, you know, would there be a benefit from an operational perspective? Is there an opportunity to reduce costs as well as emissions? Is there an opportunity here to have a competitive advantage? And do we want to add value to the business? So, if you're looking at succession planning, then, you know, systemizing what you do does bring great benefits in terms of adding value to your business. And also, I think if you're looking at growing your business, you know, do you want to set out your stall now so you've got that system in place so that you've got a scalable model for growth? So, I think just look at what are the potential drivers. I guess, you know, one of the main drivers for ISO standards and getting certified is that it's, it's actually client requirements. So, I just, you know, maybe speak to your sales and marketing team and, and see, you know, what's coming up in tenders, what, what, what are the requirements at the moment in relation to that.

And finally, I've got to ask it, what ISO standards do you guys have?

So, actually, we were certified to ISO 9001. But our system is aligned with about 3 other standards as well. So, what we do is we cherry-pick aspects of other standards. So, there's actually a standard on sustainable procurement, which is ISO 24000. So, we've got a sustainable procurement policy aligned with that. There are standards on social accountability. So, we— that's aligned with our equality and diversity policy. So, And it's actually a standard for consultancy services, so we're aligned with that too. So what we do is, yeah, we— because obviously, as you can see, I'm really passionate about standards and I could get carried away with all of these standards, but we've limited it to about 3 or 4 standards. But yeah, we cherry-pick aspects of standards that we feel are a good fit for our business and for our clients.

Well, Mel, thank you so much for joining us today.

Oh no, it's been a pleasure, Will. Thanks very much for having me.

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