PT's Unshakable Why & Bright Future with Dr. Heidi Jannenga and her Scholars from Rizing Tide Davion and Christy

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Thank you for tuning in to the Willpower podcast. This episode might be the most important episode that we listened to this year. And I'm not being dramatic or overselling this thing. I just stopped recording it. And the three guests I had simultaneously is Davion Enders Jones, a third year physical therapy student in Texas, Christy Effendy Peterson, who's been out of school for three years working in California, and Heidi Jananga, who needs no introduction. The three of these individuals came together to talk about the future of physical therapy, why we believe it's bright. And I, as you're listening to this episode, you will actually understand why it's going to be better. It's been a transformative episode. As we talked about the purpose of why we became physical therapists, it transitions into the suppression that we experience around reimbursement and high cost of education and all these things that are in some ways demoralizing the industry. But then the answer to all of this comes together in such a beautiful, inspiring way. There is no way we could have scripted this. So please listen through the entire episode. I promise you, you'll think of things completely different. You'll be way more inspired and you will leave empowered to start doing actionable things that will change the profession and your life as well as impacting. Enjoy the show. Man, Heidi, it is so great to have you on the show with two amazing physical therapists that I can't wait to dive into today's episode. As you know, we're talking about the future of our industry at large and what a great privilege it is to have you on the show to talk about that. You've had such a journey in this, this industry. So let's just kick it off with something really light and easy. Where do you see the future of our industry going? Physical therapy.

Well, first of all, will thank you so much for having me and these amazing students today. Yeah. Starting off light the future of pt. Well, I think it's evolving rapidly. I think that we're kind of at, you know, a crux of lots of things coming together. Whether it's the addition of technology in terms of AI. We have a new generation coming in with changing expectations. Whether we talk about it from the employee side or we talk about it from the patient expectation side.

Insurances are getting tighter and tighter in terms of what they are looking for for payments, whether it's the number of visits that they're willing to approve. We haven't quite got there in terms of managed care yet or value based care with the actual Outcomes having an effect on payment, but we see that coming hopefully sooner than later. I know we've been talking about it in our industry for a really long time.

I think there's also a big growing focus on the more holistic side and preventative care which is also fantastic.

And then, I mean we could talk about this for the whole show, but I think probably the newer practice models that have started to evolve with increasing cash based services, you know, more of this concierge style of PT.

And you know, just in general, if we're talking about outpatient, but we, we love the fact that, you know, in our profession there are so many different ways that physical therapists can, can add value to for two and for patient care. And so obviously today we're looking at more of the hybrid model as the future. I think in my opinion.

Sure.

To, to balance with the expectations of what patients and also the future employees.

And how they think about working with patients. I think that's where we're going. So it's a lot of change. I think it's slowly becoming more adopted and we'll see sort of where the puck lands. We've all gone through it. I know I've been in this industry for gosh, going on 30 years and seen a lot of change from when I graduated PT school to where we are today.

Man, you said it best at the end. It's changed since we started PT school. My word. Like I think back on those early days of like, you know, soap notes being patient tolerated treatment. Well see plan for, you know, like the daily note was this big. I don't think it was even encouraged to do it back then, but it was common.

And now you were writing it with pen and paper.

Yeah, we were, we were like literally penning each visit, talking to people and checking boxes for units to bill. Yeah, it's changed. It has changed and I love. But here's the thing I heard in your voice, Heidi was you sound optimistic about things.

I am very optimistic about things. I think that there's a lot of doom and gloom happening just especially on the payment side which you know, for sure stress causes evolution. Right. Stress causes the need for change. And as long as we're willing to embrace it and don't get stuck stuck in our ways of which this is the way we've always done it. If we're willing to really embrace it and I think we.

The way that our industry is structured, entrepreneurship is part of who we are.

As providers. I think that that innovation is going to come and we're going to continue to grow our value and have more access to even more patients as people understand.

More of what we do. And we still are the low cost, high value provider. And I think there's just a lot more opportunity for us to embrace. I will say you've heard me talk about the 90%, right? That 90% of patients who could come into PT and receive value from PT, 90% of them are not getting to us. Right. So we've only seen 10% of the population that could actually benefit from PT. That number has changed over the last 10 years by a couple of percentage points. It's not at a great time because of the PT shortage. Right. So we have a volume of patients but not enough people to serve them. And so that's why I think the future is bright in terms of, you know, seeing these two amazing individuals that we have with us today with Christine and Davion, who are. Who understand and are willing and wanting to embrace those communities and other people that perhaps weren't having access to PT that are going to now be able to do that.

Yeah. And that's such a great segue because we were talking about how wonderfully bright the future is of our industry. I always tell people like this, guys, I say that this is the best time. And people, when I'm on stages, I'm talking like that and people just look at me like I'm crazy and I go, but here's why. You know, when was the best time to buy real estate? In the early 2000s, it was 2008, 9. And people were just like, this is the worst time. It's because we have gone through so much painful transition, as Heidi pointed out, that now the outlook is super positive. But here's where I get concerned, and I'm so glad that we have Christy and Davion on the show, is that I am super concerned about the next generation. We had a recent year where more people left the industry, then joined the industry. And so I'm so honored to have a current student and a recent new grad within the last three years to be on the show as we talk about what was like for you to make this decision. So when. Let me ask, I'm going to start with Davion. Davion, did you, when you decided to become a physical therapist, were you aware of some of these challenges in the industry? And I'll ask Christy the same question.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I always kind of heard it and, you know, when you were a tech or a patient at times, you would kind of hear the jokes or the rumblings of how we're not quote, unquote, doctors or, you know, we're not looked at the same way. I. I mean, I'd always heard it, but I don't know. I've always been somebody that's like, I want to leave whatever I found better than I found it for the next generation. So, you know, hearing those things, it never really bothered me too, too much. I always was just like, well, why is that? I always ask the question, why? And then I want to go down the rabbit hole of, well, how do we start solving that? How do we start commanding a little bit more respect or, you know, start, you know, marketing ourselves a little bit better and putting physical therapy on a brighter map? So I always did kind of hear it, but it never. It just never really bothered me because I was always kind of always had the mindset of, let's just advance this thing then.

Wow, that's inspiring. Christy, same question to you. Like, were you aware when you were going through school, you've been out of school now for three years? So when you were going through school, like, was your class aware of some of these challenges? And, like, were there. Were there any rumblings of people saying, I got to get out of here?

Oh, totally. I think, too, like, I went to a private school in California for PT school. And so there's a lot of talks, too, on, like, return on investment, right? So we invest a lot of money into our tuition, into our education, living in California to then, especially in the private practice space and outpatient, not always seeing that match, right. Of return and investment and how much you're making an annual income. And so I think that's where a lot of pts, especially new grads over the last couple years that I've really seen really grumble, had a couple of classmates even leave and kind of pivot into other medical spaces or even, like, medical device sales or anything like that, consulting because of some of that return of investment that they wanted to see increase. But I think the thing that always challenged me was seeing a lot of the people that I worked with having gone through the process of being a patient, an intern, a student, is how happy all the pts that I worked with were. And that doesn't say that there wasn't a lot of challenges. It wasn't to say that they weren't tired or even went through seasons of burnout. But one of my mentors always challenged me in saying, she goes, I've been in this profession for several decades. And she goes, PT continues be ranked as one of the top 10 happiest careers. And so why is that? Why is that? Even though the return on investment isn't necessarily as high as maybe we would like it to be, especially for our newer generation of graduates, but we're still seeing this high level of overall enjoyment in the career and seeing how our employers, how my employer does it to try to mitigate some of that burnout, how to try to improve employee satisfaction. So that way we do want to stay in this career long term rather than the turnover rate of early in the first three to five years.

Yeah. I have to say to both Davion and Christy, already I feel even better about the future of our industry. What in the world, like both of you guys are telling me you are completely aware of all these challenges. You were aware of the Facebook groups that have that we won't mention by name, that talked horribly about the industry. And then you guys like, we're down, we're going to. In Davion's case, it was like, well, let's just make it better. And in Christy's case, she did research like a good provider would and discovered that people were enjoying it in that this, in despite of that and chose to move forward anyway. That is so inspiring to me and I want to thank you guys both especially for being on today's show as we dig into this future of physical therapy and what it is that we're, we're going to be accomplishing together. So Christy, I'm going to continue with you a little bit in your case, you know, as you're currently working, how are you dealing with those stresses? Like, you know, burnout is the big four letter word in our industry. Like how now that you've been out in the field, how are you dealing with that stuff?

Yeah, good question. I think foundationally when you're like looking at a career. And for me, one of the reasons why I decided to go into PT is it met the triangle of what I was looking for. So the triangle between like what my skills were, between being more of a people person and having some of those soft skills for a lot of one on one time with people and educationally, my background in physiology, but then also my passions, specifically right now with like athletes and sports, I knew that was a passion of mine. I knew I wanted to do that. And then also my experience, having worked in college athletics prior to PT school, I think finding a career and a profession within that triangle was really key to going, being able to go back to my why. Right. And so when I am in those phases of burnout, hey, why am I why? What is my why? And can I go back to that? Is PT continued to be in that triangle? And so I think that for one helps as just a foundational aspect. I think secondly, our clinic does a really good job of outside of traditional clinic care. And we do see a lot of clinic care is each one of our pts is set up to have something outside of the clinic.

So.

So we partner a lot with our local fire department. SAC Metro is our major fire department. We work a lot with a lot of the local club soccer programs, ECNL programs, some of you in the professional programs out here, like our.

USL championship soccer team, local colleges between Jessup and SAC State. And so for every one of our employees to have something outside of the clinic, really I think is one of our major pieces that we do. And then thirdly, like, we love our staff, we love one another, we're asked to work really hard in this profession. Our employers have really high expectations of us, but we also play really hard. And so once a quarter we outdo ourselves and go enjoy getting the opportunity to spend time with one another. And I think between having a great atmosphere, having something outside of the clinic that continues to feed us and remind us of our why, and to be in a profession that meets that like, why triangle, I think has really helped.

Yeah. So let me ask you directly, Christy, putting you on the spot. And Davion, you're coming next. Are you burning out right now?

Oh, I'm not going to lie. In the last two months of residency, I definitely have felt a little bit of that burnout. Just residency is hard. I'm in 50, 60 hour weeks right now, so I'm not going to lie and say that it's easy. But I think knowing that there's a light at the end of the tunnel has really been helping. And I actually just had a good conversation with one of my mentors yesterday, just being honest with her about it and some of her feedback has really helped. And so I can't say that I'm not, but I can't say that I don't see that light at the end of the tunnel. And knowing that change is coming, and I think knowing that that change is coming is really helpful.

See, I think that's a big theme of what I want to like jump down to people who are considering become physical therapists or people who are committed and they're in school and they're worried about it, is that there's no profession that that's worthwhile that doesn't have periods of intense stress. This is a normal part of growth and development, professionally speaking. There is kind of a brand that everyone's always stressed out all the time and, and that just simply isn't the case. Like in your case, what you described there, Christie, was so beautiful because you understand circumstantially that like you're fresh out of school, you're doing a residency, you're, you're, what do they call that when you're, you're hustling? You're hustling right now and getting as much data and you can as a foundation so you can build a future in it. But you see why. Here's the big thing. I heard you say you know why you're doing it and you know where you're going and that is huge. Same question to you, Davion. Are you burning out right now as a student?

I would be lying if I said I wasn't burning out a little bit as a student, but it's just because more of the. I'm ready and eager to get out there and start putting more connections together. You know, when you're in school all the time and it's, you're eight to five every day, you know, you're learning so, so much. And it's just I'm ready for the hands on aspect, I would say, but I mean it's to Christie's point, like going back to your why. It's like I, when I came into school, I always told myself it's like, you know, the lifelong commitment to learning starts now. So like sometimes I always have to kind of go back to my why where it's like, you know, I know why I want to do this, but I also know that I'm committed to a lifelong time of learning and being able to, you know, just grow my skill sets, growth, practice, just grow knowledge. And you know, keeps that like reminding myself of that keeps everything a little bit more fresh, if that makes sense.

Absolutely. And I think it's great because both of you guys have good models, especially Christie at her work, where she sees people who aren't burning out, who are further along, who are living a great productive life. It's not that they don't have a lot going on, but that's, you know, that's kind of the exchange for impact. If we're going to change people's lives, anyone in the healthcare space, I don't care what kind of professional you are, you're going to have a lot going on. But there is a degree of balance that occurs as your skillset and as our. As our professional world develops. So let's. We've talked a lot about this thing called the why. I would argue that our profession has some of the strongest underappreciated whys of any healthcare space. Heidi probably feels the same way as I do. I believe this is the greatest field in medicine. Not that others aren't important. We need all of them. But if we could, of course, as a profession, be seen as the true doctors in the community that we are. And people came directly to us for all musculoskeletal injuries, at least. And we were kind of like dental experts in the way that they come in for checkups and prevention as much as treatment and so on. If we were in that space, we'd have enough profits and possibility and balance to help resolve any issues. So in this case, we have these strong whys, but we almost like hide them. Davion. Davion, what is your why?

See, my why.

It'S. It's got to be just kind of the same thing, you know, not to be cliche, but the way that my physical therapist, because I was a big time football player, you know, in high school, thinking, I'm going to the league, going to play for the Philadelphia Eagles, you know, I got it all on my mind, got it all planned out. But, you know, it got to the point where injuries started piling up, you know, seeing that the body couldn't take it. And then, you know, it kind of puts. You put me at like a low. And it was like, well, then what is next for me? You know, like, am I just shoulder pads? Is that all? I was like, am I just a big crashing dummy, like getting ready to go out on the field every day? And then, you know, my pt, the way that he was able to empathize with me and meet me at my lowest moment, and it just kind of like sparked a flame for me because then it's like you could take that and apply that to anybody's life, whether they're coming in, you know, a railroad conductor that tore their acl. But this is their livelihood and you gotta get it back to. You have to get them back to their job, you know, things like that. I think the biggest why for me is just I wanna be there and impact somebody the same way that my PT personally impacted me when I was growing up. And just making sure that they know that, you know, hey, we're taking your care seriously. I hear you. I'm trying. I'M seeing, I'm walking in your shoes and I'm trying to get you right back to where you are the best way I can. So that's, that's probably my why.

That's a great answer. I really felt, I felt your connection to why you decided to become a physical therapist. Christy, same question. What's your why?

Yeah. Echoing Similar to what Davion said. Had an incredible PT that went ahead of me and rehabbed me through my ACLs and saw the impact that she made in my life and didn't want to be a PT at the time. But what flipped me from working on the internal side of college athletics as an athletic communications director to the or to the Sorry, from the external to the internal side of college athletics is the college I worked at in 2018 unfortunately just went through a series of really traumatic events in a six day period of time. And I always tell the story of Grace. He was one of my athletes who had gone through a lot of these traumatic experiences with us. And one day she unfortunately was like hiding basically underneath my desk at work. And there's a flip in me of in the role that I was currently in getting to work with some of these college athletes on a big scale. But I realized in that moment that I really wanted to get to work with some of these college athletes much more on a one on one, a little bit more intimate scale where I really got to have a really fulfilling impact in each of their lives. And so started exploring a little bit more of what opportunities that could look like PT being one of them. And so when we talk about my why, oftentimes it goes back to my who. And oftentimes a lot of my who are a lot of these college athletes that I get to work with now. And any athlete of different ages, right. Everything from ultramarathon masters runners to some of these high school and even younger athletes. But a lot of my why goes back to my who and reminds me of going back to my who, like Grace of why I wanted to shift and be more one on one in the first place.

Yeah, I love how you shifted the why into the who. And you know, Davion said the same thing where it was like, yeah, I've got this, you know, PT that really impacted me. Heidi, what's your why?

Well, my why why I became a physical therapist, if that's where we're going. I mean, for me, it's always been about impact. So whether that's patient impact with what I my knowledge and skillset that I'm able to have or. Or today, like it's always I've grown concentric circles around impact. So it used to be when I was a pt, it was very much about my patients, right? And this was my transition. When I started WebPT was that was one of the hardest transitions in my career of a jumping out of clinical care, but also figuring out how that why then connected to technology in this EMR company that we were building, right? And it came back to exactly what Davion and Christy said is impact, right? And so when I recognize that I could have more impact on not just the patients who were in front of me and in my own community, but potentially all across the country with all of these therapy clinics that were able to. Able to see one more patient or not get burnt out, right? Because they could have a more efficient clinical practice. And so that for me is always been my why of why I became a physical therapist. It was helping people impact with patients. But I wanted to just say, just in listening and we started this conversation about why the future is bright.

If you listen to what the themes and will, you're so good at this, but I'm going to, I'm going to take your. Your sort of how you roll usually in that the things that I'm hearing are not so different from when you and I became pts, right? I know that I was inspired by the physical therapist when I went down with a knee injury in college playing basketball, who helped me get back into playing, right? I was pre med and then I was like, oh my gosh, like, I want to do this, right? And so the mentorship component, Christy alluded to this so much and how her mentors have impacted her. Like, we as the elder generation, right, need to remember, like our impact on others, right? And the mentorship and clinical internships. And that negativity is only going to spiral into having less people want to become physical therapist, right? And I get it, like if you're burnt out and this isn't the career for you, well, maybe you should figure out how do you change that up into doing something different.

And, you know, not have this sort of negative impact on the. On people coming up. But I do, I do also think there's some changes that need to happen. And this whole educational cost issue is a huge burden, right? It's a huge burden on entry into pt. And also, as I think Davion and Christy both said, like the cost of. And why that negativity comes out, it's the ROI on the cost of education versus what we're able to make in our salary ranges that are out there today. It's not really commensurate. And so that is a big sort of hurdle that I feel like we do need to tackle as a profession in order for this burnout to really not or start to be more mitigated. And then just the last thing I'll just say is the community aspect of what was just mentioned, like the connection to community within your own practice or hospital or wherever you are, that connection to community and doing something that's more meaningful, that's not just about getting paid necessarily. You still could get paid for it. But it's on this bigger scale I think is also, especially for this next generation, so important for them to connect their why to something bigger than themselves.

And so having these opportunities to connect with community and do community outreach types of things is critical for practices and organizations to think about as far as retention of teams, but also mitigating burnout.

Absolutely. You know, it's interesting. My four sons have asked me, hey, what's the single most important professional advice that you could give? One of my sons did this recently and I just, I didn't even have to hesitate and I said, your network is your net worth. Which, you know, isn't the best way of saying it. Heidi's doing a more eloquent job of describing that because that what I, what I say sounds a little bit like you're going to make money the more people you know. That's not what I'm saying. Because net worth is about emotional gain. It's about, you know, community. And so quite literally, I love that you said that, Heidi, because we were all influenced by these impactful physical therapists to get into the industry. My audience knows this at nauseam. But since Davion and Christy probably don't know, I became a PT through a mountain climbing accident when I was 17, broke 21 bones, both arms, both legs. Literally had to learn to walk again after dozens of surgeries with this amazing therapist, Connie Clemons out there. Hope you're listening. I love you. You know, like that and that in that, that emotional what we do is so special because in our industry we leverage the physical to impact the psychological and emotional. That is the thing we don't talk enough about because it is the why of the profession. To some degree. We are in here changing lives together that go so far beyond, you know, an injured knee at a sporting event. It's about helping them find value as an equal team member and not just coming back into where they were but getting beyond where they were. It's, it's this concept of, of the community aspect that Heidi hit is so important. And kind of what you were saying earlier too, Heidi, this thing about burnout, it's not all bad. Like I think there's a percentage of our population that is maybe, you know, leaving the profession, that maybe it's not for them, but for those who are staying in this next generation. What a bright future around that. So, you know, Heidi did mention this thing called expensive loans, the ROI of like having these massive loans versus what you're going to be paid coming out of school. Christy, just as a side note, I kind of want to dig on that a little bit with you. Did you say your company offers additional, you know, was it financial opportunities outside of working hours? Was it more service based?

We actually use those hours as part of our salary. And so you actually reduce the number of overall.

Clinic hours, clinical patient hours, and then part of your salary is that you get to spend the several hours, whether it be working at the local high school, serving them or with the local college. Sometimes it's additional hours depending on what kind of the setup is with whatever opportunity it might look like. But oftentimes it's part of our built in 40 hour week is us being involved in our community. And one thing kind of adding onto what Heidi said that I hope and I pray that I see more of in like the PT profession moving forward is especially for a lot of these outpatient clinics, we have such an opportunity to be such a relational based profession and serving our community is what I want to end up seeing. Like is if our PT clinic were to disappear is would the community notice? And I think we have an opportunity. And for us, we've really tried to emphasize that as we continue to instill hope in patients and athletes around this area, is that we are rooted and we are networked into these local areas. So that way, if our clinic were one day to disappear, is that the community would notice there would be a void because we're no longer there. And so I think for us as we move forward in our profession is that I want to continue to see that grow. Is that if PT clinics were to start disappearing is with the community notice, would the medical space notice if we were gone?

And so I do. That doesn't necessarily answer your initial question, but I just wanted to make sure I added that just to echo what Heidi was saying.

Yeah, it's more important what you said because you did answer the question. I was curious about how that looked when you mentioned that. And what I saw was a brilliant thing that your company is doing because your company is allowing this. They're really compensating their team members to do more than just the care, but caring for the community. And that isn't just helping the clinic, probably, and not just helping you not burn out when you're over this current stressful state you're in. But it helps build the profession. Like, there's these things that they're doing. This is just one example of thinking outside the box. Right. Like there's entrepreneurs and intrapreneurs. Entrepreneurs own the business. Intrapreneurs have the same impact. They just don't have the risk or ownership of the company. That doesn't mean they're lesser in any way. And that's like a very powerful thing that you're doing as a company. So, yeah, I love that.

And I mean, for us too, like, we're set up where a lot of the things that we're involved in, whether it be like professional contracts with fire or the sheriff department. Right. Those are paid contracts that we get to have, as well as when we involve with our local soccer programs, semi pro programs.

Right.

A lot of that is still cash pay, basically. And so there's still income coming into the clinic, which is nice. But then we also get the secondary aspect of building that community aspect. Right. And so when athletes get hurt, soccer players have surgery, they are already associated with our name. They've already seen what we're done. So now we've increased our number of referrals coming into the clinic. From positive word of mouth or positive association from being out in the community.

Yeah, that's really special because that's out of the box thinking and kind of what Heidi was saying earlier, we do have these legitimate problems that have to be addressed and we have to be creative about how we address them. I think we started the beginning of this episode really talking about the purpose of why we're doing it, to get the mindset. Right. Because if we don't have that mindset and a strong purpose, we're not going to weather the storms that are coming ahead as a profession. So as you were talking about your why, I wanted to hear everyone's. Because ultimately, like Heidi said, it's kind of rooted in a similar place. Even though there's a flavor that's different for each of us, it's all rooted and we're all driven by the same passion, and we don't want to let that go just because there's some challenges to solve. Which we can figure out. So, Davion, as you're in this state of being a third year and more than Heidi and I, I would say being, you know, a new graduate in the near future, being really aware of what's happening, like, Heidi and I did not have this kind of awareness of where the industry is going to struggle. How do you. What's your vision for the future for you? I'd like to see, like, what is it that you're wanting to create as a physical therapist, as a life for yourself?

I think the biggest thing is I just want that impact. Kind of. Just kind of what Christy was talking about. I didn't even think about the community impact, but that's ultimately kind of one of the things that's been driving me is like, I've always wanted to just be somebody in the community that's giving back and giving, you know, people a peace of mind that they have somewhere to go when injuries arise and things happen, you know, that my name might be the first one. I mean, I also just want to just keep excelling the profession, like, in any way I can, whether it's, you know, with legislation and, you know, gaining more direct access for the state of Texas and, you know, just being able to just break down walls that have been up for a long time. And it seems like sometimes that, you know, people in our profession might have just walked away from because it might just seem like it's too high of a wall to climb through or walk through. You know, so that's kind of my. My. My vision is I just want to be able to be an impact in my community with. With athletes and then also just, you know, regular civilian population as well. And then just being able to just also just help be on the forefront of, you know, trying to just progress our profession in like, the most positive way.

Yeah, Davion, I think you need to be prepared for a lot of job offers after this episode goes out. I will tell you, what you said there was so articulate, and I'm getting chills as I'm thinking about this concept of breaking through the wall. I rock stars, as you're listening to this, I think what we're recognizing here, and this was not pre planned is, is just that returning to our purpose as to why we exist as a profession and individually, why we chose this. This path for us. Everyone in the profession has some degree of frustration because of where we are as an industry. But rock stars, as you're listening to this, listen to the hope and listen to the. The power of people who are coming up who know what's happening and they're choosing it anyway because they know the impact it makes. And as Heidi was explaining, this thought of like, how we break through the wall isn't totally defined for us, but community. The way we connect as an industry, the way we come together, it's important to go to these PPS events. It's important to go to any in these industry things, no matter what we feel about how it's being handled. Because we need to gather and if we can gather and realize our power as experienced owners and pt, you know, leaders that we could influence and support this younger, more powerful generation, together we can break through those barriers. And I just, you know, it's interesting that we talk about breaking through because the way that you guys all know each other is through an organization that is breaking through a barrier right now. Heidi, why don't you connect the dots for everyone who's listening about how this group of three people came together?

Yeah. These two amazing therapists and future therapists are scholarship winners through a Rising Tide, which is a scholarship program that I started back in 2020.

It's a non profit foundation and we provide scholarships for incoming first and rising second year DPT students from all across the country. We have two sort of tracks of scholarships. So Davion is a winner of our cross scholarship, which is for DPT students from underrepresented backgrounds. And we provide scholarships that are worth up to $14,000 per year for the two to three years that they're in their program. And Christy is a winner of our Surge Scholarship which is for residency students from underrepresented backgrounds. And that scholarship is worth $10,000 for one year of residency.

Amazing. And so I have to ask Christy and Davion, like, what was that like winning that award? Like, what was that feeling like?

Okay. I think I literally screamed when I opened the email. I think I was at work when I opened it too. My poor boss was like, why is she screaming? But I think it's just one of those things that is such an honor. It is such a blessing. I think we talked about return on investment, right? Like residency is an investment. We all know that, especially historically in sports residencies. And so getting to have that extra just sigh of saying, hey, like financially I'm covered right now. And a lot of these extra opportunities, whether it be things like CSM that we had recently. Right. Like for that to know that, hey, financially I'm covered in that and other opportunities with CEUs or things that are coming Through. It's a huge honor. It's a huge blessing, and it is.

Yeah, it's just that sigh of like, okay, we can do this.

Yeah. That is so cool. What about you, Davion?

I was in disbelief from start to finish, from the time that I heard about Rising Tide, when our professors, they always just email out scholarships all the time. I was just like, there's no way, right? Like, no, there's no. There's no way that this is real. And then this going through the process, and then, you know, Heidi is on Pacific time, so I was actually waking up at, like, 3, 4 in the morning when I saw the email, and I had to wipe my eyes, like, multiple times. I was like, I just can't believe this. You know, it was just, like, disbelief. And then, you know, just the moment that I had with my wife, because I'm also a newlywed. I've only been married for about two years. So, you know, seeing. Seeing the relief on her face because, you know, she was carrying the load that, you know, the financial strain and having to be kind of like the breadwinner for our family for a little bit while I'm taking time to set us up for the future. And then also just seeing my dad and my mom, like, they were all there, too. So they were. They were just like, you know, like, that was a pretty powerful moment, just seeing everybody kind of, like, see my hard work kind of pay off a little bit, and it was just nice. And it's just, honestly the biggest blessing that I can ever remember receiving. So.

Wow. I have to check in with you, Heidi, like, seeing this transformation happen in these wonderful leaders. What's that like for you to hear that?

Well, I mean, I have goosebumps every time that, you know, we get to meet so many. And again, why. Going back to what we started this conversation with, in terms of the future being bright, one of the most beautiful things that in starting this foundation that I've got to experience is all of the students that we've met through this five years, and it's a hugely competitive process. So we offer 20 scholarships in Davion's category, and we have just shy of 500 applications every year for the last couple of years and in this category. And so while it's super positive to know that the diversity of our profession is improving to where we have, you know, access to this many students to choose from, but going through all of their applications, hearing them through the interviews, like, I can't tell you how excruciating it is to Be able to choose and narrow down to those 20 winners so hard that we've actually started in going back to some points that you were making. The power of networking and the power of community. We have a more than just scholarship check writers. Like we provide a whole community for our scholarship winners with mentorship opportunities. We have quarterly educational sessions. We actually bring all of our scholars together. Here in Phoenix, where I live, we do an annual in person summit. We call it our North Star Summit. We bring them all together for them to actually get to know each other and meet and interact and hopefully help to build this community that I, you know, my vision is that they will stay connected. And then our most recent sort of opportunity is we've now through some fundraising opportunities, provide future employment for our graduating scholars through our employer Connect program. So we offer, allow them to get exposed to different organizations, whether it's hospital or outpatient or skilled nursing facilities, all the different types of options that are open to our students for employment they sponsor and can actually have an opportunity to meet and greet with our students on a multi dimensional basis. But yeah, it's been a, it's been a fantastic five years. But that's why I'm so, so bullish on the future of our profession because I firsthand have met a lot of our future leaders for sure in through this program.

So Heidi, I've always experienced you as a super powerful leader, but nothing you've ever said has impacted me more than just what you just said. And Rockstar is the reason that that's landed so strongly for me is, is that, you know, listen, Heidi very easily could have just sat in this space listening to Davion and Christie's success and going, wow, look what I did. And by the way, I think there's an element of like, hey, my efforts being achieved. But what did she also notice? She acknowledged immediately the hardship of turning other people down. And I think what's beautiful about this whole thing is just realizing what's possible. You know what I mean? Heidi, you're just a pt, you were just a student, a pre med student with a bum knee. And this PT comes and shifts your trajectory to where you start WebPT. You became a powerful PT, then you start WebPT and now you're in this space of creating Rising Tide and it's affecting the industry in such a large way. And Heidi, she just knows her purpose. She has a strong vision that's true for any of us. And if as a profession, if we could just build this network together to help each other, like Connie Helped me. Right. And the way that you guys are going to help so many people, I just think that there's no way the future wouldn't be so much brighter than we could ever even dream of. So listen, guys. Davian Christie, I can't thank you enough for your input. As you're growing your professions, what do you. I have to ask you a question, like, how do you think we, as a profession should change the narrative of this thing called a bright future? Because there's many who are questioning it and many more, as you guys know, who are thinking it's dark. How do you guys think we can change that narrative? And I'm gonna start with Davion on this one.

You know, that's a great question. I think for me, the biggest thing is just bringing it back to knowing our worth. I think kind of like we alluded to earlier when we were saying, you know, we are the front line. We are the specialists in the MSK world and musculoskeletal and rehabilitation. You know, it's just kind of starting to embrace that and, you know, wear it, like, more as a badge of honor and saying, you know, we are the front lines of this. We deserve the respect that comes with just like any other profession, medical profession out there, that they're the front line of their profession. They're the specialists and their professions. I feel like the biggest thing for pts, it's just knowing that and starting with a mindset shift first and understanding that we. We are exactly what we earned our degrees in and we deserve to be, you know, compensated, looked at, you know, all the things that come with it. And then I think once the mindset shift starts, you know, building that community. And then I think, for one thing, I think physical therapists especially need to do better, is just market ourselves better, you know, get out there and start. Start engaging now in this new social media era, clip era, like being able to market ourselves to where people now understand, oh, I could actually go see a physical therapist before I go see my doctor. I didn't even know that that was possible. You know, things like that, of that nature. I think that's. That's what's going to help the future of our industry for sure.

Okay. Yeah. How old are you again?

How old am I?

Yeah.

I'm 26.

Okay. Amazed and a little bit jealous. All right, Christy, what do you think?

Oh, my gosh. Our future is so bright with Davion in it.

I think.

Exactly. Kind of what Davion said. Right? Starting with understanding our worth. Right. Our Head how that affects our heart and what like Heidi models so well between her humility and her compassion and, and then how that extends through our hands into our communities and creating local impact and local and relationship building. I don't think pt, I think there's so many avenues, but I think at the heart of it, right, PT.

Doesn'T have to be anything excruciating.

Outside of just getting to build relationships with so many people that we get to connect with on a day to day, on a one, on one basis that most other professions in healthcare don't get the opportunity to do. And so I think that's a huge part of it.

Wow. Davion and Christy, I am so amazed. Heidi, I almost wonder if part of what we're experiencing here is the type of strength that you're finding through this program because you're obviously finding individuals who are gritty. In a sense, they're already stronger than your average bear because they're coming into this world, like trying to find this. So this, this oxygen that you're providing through a scholarship and education and networking. I wonder if this is probably why we're seeing so much maturity in this case. I don't really have a question for you, but what do you think about that?

Well, you can obviously see why we. They were selected. I mean, and like I said, like, it was excruciating to be able to pick only those 20, but there's many more that were very similar to them. But, but these are shining stars, right, that stood out in the pack. And I do think that.

The grit that you hear.

And the, the passion that you hear passion comes from a place that started with mentorship, of why they chose this profession. But more than that is also the struggle and the, and the community and the values that they hold as individuals, which started with their own upbringing. Right. And how they found that. And so I know that's true for me as a product of two immigrant parents, like that struggle in the beginning and the values that were instilled in me, the value of community and family and education, all of those things were part of my upbringing that now I'm exuding through other parts. It's how, you know, part of the culture of Wapiti was out of me as a founder and my own values, those values are now being represented in Rising Tide, but also now extending that to finding more people who share those common values and have an opportunity to bring that to the profession in the future. And so it really comes back to your own. Like we started this conversation comes Back to your own why and being willing to then help others understand, but more importantly, support their why to bring that, you know, bring more opportunities for them to embrace. And that's really what we're doing. We're just providing fuel to these already amazing folks and giving them a platform to have an even broader and bigger impact on the profession and have it faster. Right. One of the biggest reasons that we started this when we did our research of, well, what kind of scholarship program should we want to do or what should I do with this small endowment that we put aside? And that was really around the fact that people were not choosing. The diversity of our profession wasn't changing. First of all, the line had sort of flattened despite a lot of the things that were happening. And so you dig deeper, and people were not applying because of the cost of education. And while we could tackle, you know, try to do that, tackle that, that's a huge thing. Why not start small and grow that community over time in which you now have people that truly understand that have gotten over the barrier of the cost. Right. And now they have an opportunity to hit the ground running as soon as they graduate without this sort of burden of the. Of student debt that's on them. So let's see what they can do. And that's really what we're doing. And you're hearing it from these amazing folks right here. And These are just two examples of the 69 scholars that we now have matriculating through Rising Tide.

Yeah, it's amazing to think of the power of the one. And when I think about one person who believes that they can make a difference, who believes that what they do matters, it changes everything. I think part of where I feel like our profession has gotten lost, Heidi, is in this place of people who start with these strong whys and with the confusion of just being on a downward trend as an industry that people start to question or at least forget why they did what they. Why they started this journey in the first place and maybe even lose hope about where they can go. But at the end of the day, the best place we can go, helping someone else get started. And I think because all it takes is one person, your physical therapist, Heidi. I think about the ripple effect of that one person across the entire industry. And all they did was care about their patient and love on them. That was Connie Clemons. For me, to this day, I am doing all that I can to help people be Connie. And, um, it's so empowering and inspiring to see how you the. The Rising Tide Scholarship program is just one avenue of a million possibilities that we can all do. Like you said, to start small. But the imp. Just because we start small doesn't mean the impact is small. I look at, I look at Davion and Christy and I look in their eyes and I, I see what I want for the future of, of not, not the industry, the industry, it's, it's the wills, the 17 year old kids who were laying there in bed wondering if their life would ever be good again, you know, and those therapists who come in with a ball of light and hope, who, who uplift. Like, yeah, we should. Like Davion said, let's go get what's ours. You know, this is the one profession that I say let's go make as much money as ethically possible. Like let's get crazy profitable ethically. But like let's go, let's just stop this thing called being a referral that gets sent out from a doctor and be the doctor, be that direct point of care. Because we, we are. Studies have shown no one knows the musculoskeletal industry to start better than us except for orthopedic surgeons. So for us, in a place where we can stand and come together, there's, there's endless possibility and yeah, there's going to be some periods of time with burnout, but guys, that's anything that's worthwhile and for us to be able to come together and overcome that is such a beautiful thing. So listen, I usually don't get this soap boxy, but I just feel so much love and inspiration from the three of you that I appreciate. Letting me talk for a second. Heidi, how do people learn more about the Rising Tide scholarship program? Let's just start with that step. What can you tell the audience? This is going to be a mix of students and leaders and PT owners. Like what would you tell them?

Yeah. So if you're a student, we student going through DPT program and you're a first year or rising second. We are currently in our application cycle right now. So if you go to rising R I z I n g-tide t I-e.com.

You can find our application right there on the website. And our deadline is by the end of this month. So May 31st we will close it. And so that's for students. If you are a clinic owner or a PT.

Or a clinic director who is interested in knowing more about how you can be a part of Rising Tide. Because we're always looking for new mentorships, new speaker new speakers and of course anyone who financially wants to be a part of Rising Tide. You can also go to our site and there's a whole different page on sponsorships and employer connect program. So it's R I z I n g-t I d e.com thank you Heidi.

Davion Christy for being on the show. This is easily going to be one of the most memorable for me. I can't thank you guys enough for just being who you guys are. I really appreciate it. And for all you rock stars that are listening, I just would like to add to just start believing in yourself the impact that you can make, giving yourself permission that sometimes it does get hard and be burned out. But remember our why. Remember the vision and remember the impact. And as always guys, remember leadership is not about becoming something we're not. It's about stripping away those things are getting in the way and defining who we already are. Thanks for listening. Thank you for listening rockstars. And if you're one of the many medical professionals and leaders who have had it dealing with the drama of hiring and training people that you think are overpriced, then let's think about how virtual assistants can offload you to do what you love, which is changing people's lives. In the show notes, there's a link to jump on our calendar so that we can show you why LinkedIn shows that virtual assistants is the second fastest growing trend in healthcare next to artificial intelligence at no Obligation. We'll see if this is a fit for you. I hope to talk to you soon.