#30: Let's Connect through Counseling with Guest, Dr. Laura Wallace of Twin Lakes Counseling

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We're Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a San Antonio area realtor and lender, but most importantly, we're working moms.

The goal of this podcast is to provide support and a sense of community to San Antonio area working moms like us. So join us in trying to find a balance between career, family, and everything in between. Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're here with Dr. Laura Wallace. She is a licensed marriage and family therapist. And so we're just going to turn it over to her to let her talk about her work.

Thank you, Erika and Marie. It is such a pleasure to be here. I need to mention that I found your podcast for the first time while I was pregnant. And first-time pregnant— or first-time mom. And I was listening to it as I was walking around my neighborhood trying to stay active, trying to stay fit, and also stressing about how I was going to do my business and be a mom. And so every single episode I would hear and I would say, OK, if this wonderful woman can do it, I can do it too.

There's a way.

There's a way to be a working mom, it's going to be okay. And it was such a comfort for me. So thank you so much for that.

Oh, I love to hear that. That's wonderful. I'm so glad that you were able to do that and get that sort of reassurance because there's a lot of us out there.

So yes.

And that was my experience too at the first Working Moms Business Owners event that you all hosted, was to just interact with people who kind of got both sides of me. So to back up, I'm a business owner of quite a few years. I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, which means that in my 20 years in the, in the psychology field, I have been a therapist for 17 of them. And therapists, we kind of do the private practice thing, so we're small business owners. And then about 6 years ago, I started a group practice. My group practice is Twin Lakes Counseling. It's located up in Washington State, so not local to, um, to all your folks here, but it is a lovely group of 25 therapists in Federal Way, Washington, which is between Seattle and Tacoma. And that step to owning a group practice was really born out of my desire to serve the community of Federal Way. That's, that's a community that I grew up in, and just to be able to provide more therapy services, because the number of therapists and the number of people needing therapy really don't, don't match. Really anywhere there's so much need for more therapists. And then coming down here to San Antonio, I mean, that's, that's true in Texas as well. And I, so I'm a longtime business owner. I have gotten really kind of used to that hat, if for lack of a better word. But I am a brand new mom.

My son is a new mommy.

My son is 3 months old. I am in the thick of trying to figure this all out. This is my first week back from maternity leave. And oh my gosh, what a transition. I just, my whole life, my relationship, my brain, my ways of coping with stress that I have used for years and years and years, they just, they don't work anymore. I'm having to figure out all of this from scratch. And so when I went to the business owners networking event, again, it was just this sense of, okay, these are, these are women who are doing it, who are, are balancing motherhood and— well, maybe not even balancing, doing both.

Yeah, trying.

Yeah, yeah, making it happen. And, um, I, I've just been so inspired by you both and by your group. Oh, that's wonderful.

Thank you so much.

Yeah, it's a great group. I, you know, I think we as moms, we try to just figure it out, you know, as we go along, and things work one day and sometimes they don't next. But I think our group is great. I think we, we do show there's a balance and you can do both and do both well, right? I think a lot of us choose our profession sometimes— I went into my career after having kids, and I, I knew that I wanted a career that I wanted to be available to be at whatever football game we were going to be at, whatever play it was going to be. I wanted to be available. So being a business owner in that aspect allows me to set my schedule. And it's a great feeling to be able to be successful in my career and successful in being a mom. So yay. So I love new babies and you have definitely given me baby fever when we met Elliot. Yeah. Yes.

I've been blown away. That's great.

Um, so Laura, will you tell us a little bit about why you decided to get into counseling and therapy services?

Yeah, for sure. So I actually, very similarly, 20 years ago was thinking of what career to go into, and I knew I eventually wanted to be a mom. And so I did pick counseling because of its flexibility, but a lot of life happened to me. I went through a difficult divorce in my 20s and sort of had to rebuild from there. And the, the whole group practice came out of just, like I was saying, this really strong desire. I'm also a supervisor. So in becoming a counselor, counselors get their, their master's level graduate degree, and then they have to do 2 to 3 years of supervised practice. And one of my favorite things to do is to supervise therapists who are becoming fully licensed therapists. And in that process, it's a wonderful time to find a great therapist is when they're in that in-between period. Because they— you kind of get two brains for the, the price of one with, with the supervisor on there.

Yeah.

And it's also a beautiful time to be involved in a counselor's career because they are blossoming as a therapist and determining kind of what things they, they love doing and really feeding their passions. So because of that, I, I was able to start a group practice, and that lifestyle— the business owner, having employees, figuring out policy, that sort of thing— not quite as conducive to to having a family, to having a child, as just the counselor piece. Not that that would have been easy if that was all I was doing. So it's a little bit, yeah, all over the place for me right now as I'm trying to figure out how the two come together. But I really came into this field out of a desire to help people and also to know, to real— out of a realization that we're very similar as people, our emotions, our experiences. There's a range, for sure, but the isolation that we feel when we're going through something difficult. This is something I've been reminded of as a new mom, that when we're go— when we're in the midst of it, when we're going through something that is causing us pain, sleepless nights for me at the moment, difficulties communicating with my partner about, you know, childcare and that sort of thing, having this, just this sense of everything being new and being good at none of it. When we're in the midst of that, we feel very, very isolated. And therapy for me is a place where we can go and realize, oh, right, this is part of a normative human experience. This is difficult, it's painful, it's something we certainly need support in, but it doesn't make us alone or bad or a person who deserves to feel shame around that. And that's, for me, for my entire life when I'm in therapy, been part of, of the experience of realizing that this is that I can connect with another human being, the therapist, and get the support that I need in a really powerful way. And so that's what I wanted to provide to the community. That's why I became a therapist to begin with. And then when I was— after my— I got my PhD at St. Mary's in marriage and family therapy and then moved back up to Washington State. And I was realizing that there is a huge need for more therapists, but more specifically for my group practice, there is a— there was a huge need for therapists who took insurance.. And so that's one of the unique things that we do up in Washington State is that we are a practice that actually accepts insurance. A lot of therapists, for very, very good reason, especially when they're in private practice, don't take insurance. They encourage clients to use out-of-network benefits, and depending on your insurance plan, that can be very— that can work very well. But depend— but if you have other insurance plans or if you can't afford the upfront cost of out-of-network therapy, the, the finding a therapist who will work within the insurance system actually makes therapy enormously accessible. And that's what we do up in Washington State. We accept Medicaid, we accept most commercial plans up there. And so I manage the therapists, and then I also have a team of administration staff who are wonderful and provide the backend support so that the therapists can focus on therapy but still accept insurance. So that's kind of our business model. And the, the thing that brought me to that was a knowledge that when I was growing up, my family wouldn't have been able to afford therapy for all 4 of us kids and my parents, um, whenever the difficulties come up. I, I'm a, I'm a firm believer that not everyone needs therapy all the time, but all of us go through things in our lives where therapy could be helpful. And especially we had a big family, if we had had to pay out of pocket for all of our services, or for all of those services, there, it just wouldn't have happened. And so to be able to serve families like mine as I was growing up, to be able to say, you know, we actually accept your insurance, so that means maybe maybe somebody who could— would have only been able to afford 3 or 4 sessions can now get 8, 9, 10, a full round of therapy, even longer. That's, that's really the service that we provide to the community and that I get really excited about.

Do you, do you partner with maybe medical doctors up where your practice is to help? I don't think I've ever heard of anyone local like referring, hey, you might want to see a therapist. I don't know if it's because of the out-of-pocket expense or that maybe insurance isn't accepted, but referrals that way, is that something that you guys do?

Yeah, we definitely do. We, we pride ourselves on being able to work with other practitioners in the community. It's really important to have that collaborative care. And we actually have a psychiatric nurse practitioner on staff, so we can provide meds within our system, and that allows for really easy communication between our therapists and then our psychiatric provider. But then also we keep a running list of other practitioners in the community. If somebody needs a higher level of care, maybe intensive outpatient, that sort of thing, we refer into the community. And then our hope, of course, is that will have community members referring to us. And I— it can be a difficult thing to talk about when you're, you know, listening to somebody and being like, you know, they could probably benefit from a little bit of extra support right now. You should be— you should see a therapist. But I actually found my own therapist here in San Antonio through another provider, another, another service. So as a new mom, I did not know that pelvic floor physical therapy physical therapy for the pelvic floor was a thing. Yeah, I certainly didn't know how needed it was. So I go to Uplift PT, and they actually connected me with the therapist that I'm seeing right now because they, as another provider, knew of who specializes in postpartum services in the community. And there aren't a ton. And I was really grateful that they were able to put me in communication with them. So I mean, talking to doctors, hopefully doctors will have some therapists on their referral list. Another way to find a great therapist is to go through your insurance if that's something that you need to use, or to talk to co-workers because co-workers will have a similar insurance plan often than you do. And if they've found a wonderful therapist who does accept your insurance or who provides what you need for out-of-network, but if your insurance plan offers out-of-network benefits— I'm sorry to get into the nitty-gritties here, but I find that—

no, I like it because we don't know about it. I mean, I, growing up, I don't think I, I don't I don't know if my family ever did. If they did, they never shared. I only know of one friend that has, I know, an extensive time seeing a therapist and she absolutely depends on them to just, she's like, it gives me my norm. It puts me back into, you know, you know, feeling good all the time. So she actually, for many, many years, but beyond that, I don't know many that on a consistent basis utilizes a therapist.

Yeah, and getting those personal referrals is such a powerful way to find a therapist. Um, and then if you reach out to a therapist and they're full but they're actually getting back to you and they're actually like communicating to you, with you, asking them if they have any referrals within their network. So for, for me personally, I was really looking for somebody who was, is able to serve the new mom, who's trained in postpartum issues and postpartum support specifically. And there are very, very few of those, but I was able to find one. And so they also know each other. So asking the therapist, you know, okay, if you're full, if you can't get me in for another 3 months, maybe I'll still get on your waitlist. But, you know, do you have anyone who I could try in the meantime? And that is a really powerful way to do it. Like I said, also going through insurance, your insurance company, they can usually provide you a list. You have to then kind of research each one to see if they might be a good fit. And then finally going through Psychology Today, which is a huge list of therapists in the community. And even if you're going through somebody— some other way of finding a therapist, also looking them up on Psychology Today or wherever they have their profile can give you a sense of, is this somebody that might be a good fit for me? Is there the language that they use and how they describe themselves either on their website or their Psychology Today profile? Does that sound comfortable to me? Is this somebody who I might want to go and, and talk to? And I, I agree with you, Marie, like, it's not something that we talk about as a community. And that's part of why I'm so excited for this opportunity to come on this podcast and mention it, because the depth of support that we can get, that we can connect each other with when we're doing something that is just difficult across the board, like becoming like being a mom at any stage, actually, from what I'm— what I'm observing from very highly skilled moms who have been doing it for a while. It's still tough for the rest of, of the time. Or starting a new business at the same time. Or sometimes there are life transitions that are happening that cause people to need to start their own business.

I was—

one of your podcasts with the attorneys who, who really love Star Wars. Yes, and they were talking about that. They were talking about moms who come through difficult divorces, and, and I know that's part of my story as well, and have to rebuild their life. And I mean, even just a transition like that is within the realm of normal experience. Nothing wrong with us for, for having a little bit of struggle around that, for having a ton of struggle around that, and having a therapist there support and to come alongside you and to help you process emotional difficulty. I know I'm a little all over the place in talking about these things, but, but one of the things that I'll be talking to my therapist about is birth trauma. The idea that going through that transition, which I've always been told is a normal part of, you know, becoming a mom and, and, and all— so many women go through it. For a very large portion of us, It's a traumatic, difficult experience where we've had to encounter a medical system that is great in some ways and really fails in some ways. And then our bodies have experienced something that they— it kind of grasps onto that memory, that experience. And I know that working through that and then also doing that while having a new baby is very difficult for a lot of us. And so having a safe space to talk through that, to discuss the emotional and physical consequences, to just look at recovery as something that we all to some extent need to do. And that recovery is so much better with the support of somebody helping you with your physical being, the, the doctor that you're going to, the pelvic floor therapist that you're going to, the whoever it is, and then also correlating that with someone who's helping you through the emotional and mental changes. That are happening.

Well, I think as a new mom, a lot of us would have— this is normal, we get through it and don't realize it doesn't have to be that hard. Like going back and looking at my eldest is 15 now. So I realized listening to moms today, I'm like, I think I was going through postpartum. I thought I was going crazy. But had I had someone— I mean, my OB-GYN, I did share it. He was an older man. Like he'd been, you know, a physician for 40+ years.

He's now retired.

So he's like, oh, you're fine. That's normal. Well, but it didn't have to be that hard. Had I known about, you know, maybe having someone to talk to that can help you walk you through that. And here are some things that you're going to go through and, you know, just, just, just help you along to make, you know, being a mom, a career mom, and I'm making it so hard. Yeah. Yeah.

I remember being like super afraid of postpartum. So like after my kids, I got what they call baby blues or, you know what I mean? Obviously your hormones are going all crazy and, you know, whatever's going on. But I remember being like, okay, I feel sad, but like, how sad? And I don't know if this is normal and I don't know if it's not. And is this going to get worse? And I just remember being really afraid. And probably if I was talking to a postpartum therapist, I would have kind of knew more about what was going on with my, with my mind and my body. But I kind of just remember sitting there and being like, okay, I think I'm good. I feel okay. Maybe this is fine, you know? And eventually it did pass and it was okay and I was lucky. But, you know, I know that it can get detrimentally worse. And I just— I always remember waiting for that other shoe to kind of drop where it was like, okay, when is it bad? You know what I mean? When do I have to tell somebody about this? And so maybe more information would have been helpful.

You know, I really appreciate both the stories and Marie, what your OB said to you. Kind of hit me pretty, pretty hard. I, I want it— I would want to say back, yes, it's normal, and I'm not fine.

Yeah.

And at least for this period of time, this— yes, it might pass, and, and it is, it is like this for a lot of different moms, and it might not. And even if it does pass, you know, getting some support in that time. So I, I very much appreciate it.

Well, there's just a lot of stress that you go through. So like when I got— I, I did not plan for Tyler to show up when he did, but it was okay. But my husband and I were not like, are we ready? Are we ready to be parents? I'm not sure. So I had a lot of anxiety going into it, you know, and I was really worried about, you know, everything. And then I didn't realize for work purposes, I didn't realize I didn't have a specific type of insurance so I could take off, but I wasn't going to get income coming in. And I had no idea. I'm like, oh my. So I was stressed. I was so stressed.. And then I remember thinking, I think I don't remember the blues, but I remember being angry. And I'm like, why was I mad? I just remember being angry. I'm like, I'm gonna run away. I remember thinking I'm going to run away. I think I'm gonna run away because I was so stressed about it. And eventually, obviously, it did go away, but not knowing what that was, but having someone to support you through that, saying, hey, like, you're going to get through this and walk you through whatever the next steps are and how you're going to feel. And some, I know people who I didn't know people that at the same time were, you know, they could not get past it. They and they were miserable for a very, very long time, not knowing that they were just having some really— obviously their hormones are all over the place, but having trouble. So having that support and I really wish my doctor said, you know what, let me recommend someone for you to go see. I think this is a good time for you to go talk with them and walk you through that. And I just felt now, 15 years later, thinking, oh, maybe he didn't know. You know, he sees the doctor, just didn't know about it.

Very possible. And Erika, that question you mentioned, you know, am I crazy? It's very hard for me too, because of course I'm, I'm still in that period of once in a while coming to me out of left field or a reaction coming up in me and it just not fitting with anything in my experience in the past of, of who I am or how I react or how I interact with my husband or, or, or things like that.

Yeah.

And it's more than just a yes or no answer. Of course, it's not, am I crazy in the sense of, you know, outside of the norm, but also it might be painful enough to go get that support. And I remember when I first got the name of a therapist in this postpartum period, even just having that name, even just having a number I could call, a website I could go to, or an email I could reach out to, I sort of said to myself, and it was a comfort, okay, this is how I'm feeling in the moment. If I'm still feeling this tomorrow morning, if I'm still feeling like this in 3 days, still in this space in a week, that's how I'll know. And I think it's different for each person how they'll know that they're ready to reach out for support, but just knowing that that support is, is there. And yeah, I very much hope that OBs nowadays are much better at providing resources. I know my primary care physician talked to me even before I gave birth about, you know, how I might know that medication might be a helpful tool for a while. That's very much within the norm of a lot of postpartum moms' experiences. And then as a therapist, I knew that, you know, when you're on psychiatric medication, it's always a good idea to supplement that therapy. It isn't necessary, but it is always a helpful support. And yeah, that's— it's great to hear both of your stories.

Yeah, I love what your practice is doing and just trying to make it accessible for everybody because I feel like in years past, you know, mental health wasn't as important, or it was, but people didn't act like it was, you know what I mean? And so now more and more we're talking about things like self-care and we're talking about, you know, taking breaks and we're talking about like, you know, clearing your mind and being mindful, you know, in the moment and that kind of thing. And people in the past, I don't know, were as worried about that kind of thing or it wasn't on their radar. And so now that it is becoming more more, I guess, appropriate or less taboo to do these things for yourself, which it should have been all along. You know, it's nice that these services that you're providing exist for people that maybe, like you said, couldn't afford out of pocket or different things like that. I just think that's so important.

Me too. And again, there are a lot of very good reasons why therapists in the community don't take insurance. It adds a ton of time and stress and effort, and sometimes out-of-network benefits are sufficient for, for people to have access to therapy, and a lot of times they're not, especially if you have a family and there are multiple people that you're having to, to care for. And so yeah, that, that, that taking insurance has been a real big part of my, my passion for serving the community. It's actually something I, I've— we, my husband and I moved down here to Texas 2 years ago. I now manage my business remotely, which is its own experience, and we've been looking around here in Texas and, and trying to determine whether there's a need. But the number one question will be, what are the insurances in the area? Which we're still figuring out, and can we work with them? Because if we were to start something down here, we would want it to be something where we, we can, can take insurance. And again, I know a lot of therapists, for very good reasons, don't.

Yeah, I, I imagine that from state to state the rules and things must be different, right? I mean, yeah, you know, we have another gal that was on the podcast, Claudia. She moved her— and she's in the beauty industry— but she moved her business from California to Texas and I remember her just talking about how just everything was so different. You know, the rules were different and your clientele is different and the wants of your clientele were different. And so I imagine you're probably kind of researching and going through that whole process right now for your business.

Yeah, yeah, I really am. And, and part of, you know, being here and living in this community has made that a pretty natural way of being. I interact with other folks in the community and find out what resources are and aren't available here. One thing that I know, because I did the last part of my graduate work, my PhD, here in San Antonio, is that like everywhere else in the nation, but possibly a little bit more intensely, Texas does not have enough mental health therapists to meet the need. Yeah, the statistics that came out when I was in graduate school about 1 in 10 teenagers experiencing suicidal ideation and the number of counselor-to-student ratio within the school system, just, just that in and of itself was pretty drastic and pretty dramatic. And then when you look at Texas as a whole, there's potentially either a little bit or more or a different stigma around seeking counseling and help. And the, the availability of resources aren't— isn't what I wish it was. So So that's what we're looking into here. You're absolutely right. Claudia's experience matches my own, that laws and rules and what is necessary for businesses to move from one state to another. And to be clear, I would not move my practice. It would just be a question of, you know, do we branch here? Do we serve the community?

I think it's cultural. That's different. You know, obviously Claudia, it was just the culture. Like hers was coming from California. To Texas, the culture is a little different. And I'm assuming Washington culture is very different than in Texas.

I wonder about that. Like, I wonder if, you know, in just like in all businesses, I wonder if people in one state or another are more receptive to therapy. Maybe in a different state it's more acceptable to go to a therapist socially versus another state. I bet those kind of differences exist all over the country.

I— it's certainly been my experience. I, I was first licensed in Connecticut. I have been licensed since then in Michigan. I'm licensed down here in Texas, and then also practice up in Washington. And I would say those cultural differences are incredibly significant. When I was in Connecticut, some segments of the, the population were, were very open to therapy, and then there were others— I know at the time I was, I was in a, a more conservative community, and there was a stigma against therapy. And so part of what I wanted to do was kind of put myself out as a therapist and say, hey, this is actually something that can really supplement— whoever's coming to therapy, we work within your values, we work within your existing resources in your life. Why, why wouldn't we? Like, those are the, the core parts of your life. And people that feel like there is some stigma are often concerned that going to therapy will go against one of their values, will go against one of the things that already exists to build their life. And it's just not true. If you find the right therapist and, and find the approach, therapy can be that source of whatever it is that's important to me in this moment. How can I make this work the best possible way? What mindset do I need to shift? What emotional experience do I need to process? And then it just kind of greases the wheel for, for what, how, whatever life it is that you want to build. And so I completely agree about the cultural differences, and part of being here is, is feeling out that cultural shift here in Texas and seeing, you know, what, what might be helpful. I'm also excited about the opportunity of potentially supervising within this, this community, and that, or, and/or doing some workshops if there are areas of need. Little things that I could do in, in the coming months once I get my head back into the game. Enormous lifestyle shift that's happened.

Definitely give yourself some grace. It takes a little time, but it does, it does come. I think the biggest thing when I'm listening about there, like I said, growing up in here, born and raised in Texas, it just wasn't talked about. I think you just, you know, like for anything, like if you had a problem, you dealt with it, you moved on. And that's just the way it was. But in hearing and understanding and now being part of our community, our Working Moms Community, it's more, it's a tool. It's a tool you take out when you need it. And it's like in any case, is just part of your resources to help you be better, whatever, whenever you need it. And I think it's just getting the word out. A lot of times in talking to other people in our moms group, it's just not knowing that these services are available and then actually understanding what they provide. I see when I think of therapy, I'm like, you're on a couch and you're talking to somebody. Like, well, do I really have to? Is that gonna help me? How's that gonna help me? Like, it's just understanding what it actually does for you.

Yeah, absolutely. And one of the metaphors that I thought of, or I— that was meaningful to me back when I was getting into counseling myself, and then also that's been particularly meaningful to me now as I'm, I'm going to different types of physical changes and physical therapy, I have thought a lot about how if, if you have an injury, any sort of injury, let's say my sister played basketball for many years and hurt her knee, and she went and had to get surgery. Afterwards, she went to physical therapy in order to help those tissues that had been hurt in some way, and it was localized to that particular area of her body, but it didn't mean that it didn't need attention and focus. And can we get these parts of the body stretched a little bit more and moving the way that they did? And it only moved moves in this direction. So maybe if I want to get back into running, I need it to move a couple other ways as well. And that's what happens to us emotionally too. Something happens, some transition, some pain point that has happened— a divorce, a difficulty getting pregnant, a fight with your husband, a just something that happens in the business world. I've seen a lot of that happen for colleagues that, that own a business, somebody, you know, steals from your business, God forbid, or an employee leaves in a bad state or something like that. Whatever that pain experience was, things are going to tighten up around that. You're, you're not going to be quite as free to make different decisions as, as you were before. You're going to feel stuck and tight. And just like a physical therapist can help you work through some of the muscular and physical ramifications of that, a mental health therapist really can help you get back into that freedom and flexibility of your mindset, of your emotions, and just probe a little bit into, okay, what was the tightening that happened? What was the, the tensing up? And how can we release and relax that and get back to a full range of motion? Um, so I had that metaphor was very—

I love that analogy. That's awesome. I definitely, I had the picture picture of my brain being, you know, pulled and, you know, massaged and my heart being healed, you know, for different things. Nice job, Laura.

That tightening that you're talking about is totally like a defense, right? Like we all sort of like when bad things happen or things that we perceive to be as bad things happen, we do tighten up, right? And you're just like, your mind sort of is like, well, I'm never going to let that happen again. So this is how I have to be. And so talking about it to sort of relax you and emotionally just sort of realize like, hey, look, this thing did happen, but that doesn't mean it's going to happen again. And that doesn't mean, you know, you have to kind of come up with other ways to cope, I guess, besides just putting up those walls that are like, nope, this isn't going to happen anymore, you know? So I love that. I think that's a great metaphor and it's very visual. And I think a lot of people can relate to that. I do.

I like that. I think, you know, in my own life, I always relied on siblings or friends to help through this stuff. But I realized, you know, as I get older, that my experiences as a working mom is very different than someone who was a mom 20 years ago, 40 years ago, my mother. Like, I would have these arguments. I'm like, okay, raising me is very different than raising the boys right now. Like, it's just different. And there's no— and in my head, I thought there's no resource. Like, no one tells you what's right and and I have anxiety about how to help them and help them become strong men and this and that and whatever the case is, because it's different today than it was 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago. So having those resources to say, hey, I'm scared of what I'm doing, am I doing it right? I don't need someone to say maybe I'm doing it right, but how do I get better and how do I become a better person and not have those feelings? Know that it's okay. It's okay to feel anxiety. It's okay to feel scared sometimes, and you're going to get through this and have that support. But I think a lot of times, just like I said, it's not talked about, or people just really don't understand the resources that are available to them. So I'm with you, Erika, knowing that there's something out there that, hey, insurance does cover this, and it's something that you can utilize, and it's a benefit you're paying for anyway. Like, why don't you utilize like they do with the— that you get those emails, like, hey, you're coming to the end of the year, use your dental plan, use your vision plan. Well, they don't ever talk about using your, your, your, you know, your, your resource for, for therapy. No.

Yeah.

Well, this is usually the part of the episode where we ask people what their favorite thing is about what they're doing, and so we want to know what your thing is, Laura.

Wow.

Well, I, I adore being a therapist, so I hope it doesn't sound like anything— therapist. I even more love supervising, and part of me coming back from maternity leave is supporting the practice that I have up in Washington by doing a little bit of extra supervising. That was part of what got me excited about coming back to work. I knew I needed something to get me excited about coming back to work after such a powerful and meaningful time staying at home. And, and it really was that supervising. I adore seeing counselors flourish into the healers that they want to be. I adore seeing them work through their own issues because we all have issues. And for therapists, our job is to work through those issues separate from our, our work. But that— yeah, to do that is the supervisory relationship. And so that's That's, that's the— my favorite part of what I do. And then I get to see that work that therapists do in supervision, kind of becoming better therapists, just exponentially impact their community, because that helps all of the, all of the clients that they have, and it helps them. And I get to benefit from it too, because it's such a powerful journey to, to watch. So that's what I'm really excited about and kind of clinging a little bit to when I start to feel stressed about coming back to work. I'm like, yeah, but I get to supervise, and this this is the work that I love.

Oh, I love that. That's great. And it's, it's very apparent that you're passionate about what you do. And so I just love when I see on these podcasts, you know, ladies that are really just doing what was so obviously meant for them, you know. And I just think that's wonderful.

Yeah.

And then, well, usually lastly, we ask people how they can get in touch with you about your services. And I understand that your services are out of state at the moment, but so if you want to just leave everybody with some information about your business and maybe some final thoughts as well,, then we'll just do it that way.

For sure. Well, my, my practice up in Washington State is twinlakescounseling.com. So if you have— if you know of anyone up in Washington State who might need therapy, that's a great place to send them. You can also reach out to me directly, laura@twinlakescounseling.com. And if you have— and if any of your listeners have any thoughts or information about maybe expanding into the Texas or San Antonio area, if you have any information about what the insurance landscape looks like for mental health here, and that would of course be helpful to me. But I would also just encourage each of your listeners to seek out the support here in the community. I, I'm saying this kind of as a— I'm in that same boat right now. What, what therapists are here? What therapists are specializing in the stage of life that I'm going through right now? And that takes some work and it takes some curiosity, but remember that that even if it takes a little bit of extra time when you're looking for services for yourself, that's also going to help your colleague who's going through the same thing. And you can say, oh, I did some research on that, and here you go. And so it's, it's just, I think, a really powerful way that we can support each other and we can make sure that we're in the best place possible. So whether it's talking to somebody else who is in therapy and really loves their therapist, or going through your insurance company or going to psychologytoday.com or some other way of finding what the mental health resources around you are. I'm just really hopeful that we can all, like you're saying, Marie, break some of that stigma and start talking about it and look at it as a way to really help us both personally and also in our business.

Definitely.

That's wonderful.

Perfectly said, my friend. Perfectly said. Yes, yes.

And then I Lastly, I'll just thank our listeners for tuning in to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast, and we will just catch you guys next week.

See you guys next week.