How Working Moms Deal With Imposter Syndrome

Welcome to the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're your hosts, Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a realtor and lender here in San Antonio. But most importantly, we're working moms just like you.

This podcast is all about creating a space where we can come together, share stories, and learn from each other. We love connecting with local moms in business Hearing about their journeys and how they're balancing it all, because let's be honest, it's not always easy, but it's so worth it.

Before we dive in today's episode, we're excited to share some big news with you all.

Our business community and coworking memberships are officially open. Whether you're looking for a supportive community of moms in business or need a beautiful space to work and grow, we've got just what you need here at Working Moms of San Antonio. You can visit the link in our show notes or workingmomsofsanantonio.com/membership for more info.

Now onto today's episode. Grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's get started.

Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We have a special guest on today and friend.

Yay.

Dr. Brandy Scott. And so I'm gonna turn it over to her so she can share a little bit about herself and her work.

Awesome. Thank you so much, Erika. Um, I excited to be here and to chat with you all. And, um, so yeah, like you said, my name's Dr. Brandy Scott. Brandy is great for me, preferred. Um, uh, I am, I had a 15-year career in higher education as an administrator. Um, and then 2 years ago transitioned to having my own coaching and consulting business where I'm really working one-on-one with, uh, primarily women on career transition and really supporting them with seeing their worth and their value, um, if they're advocating for their salary or promotions or looking for, um, a different career move, uh, and then also doing training and development with teams and organizations of really focusing on team culture. And you say we have a strategic plan, but what are the action steps that actually make that come to life? Um, and so that's That's my business and the work that I do within Brandi Scott, PhD.

I love that because the strategic plan is something that I've heard that term often, and we have a plan on paper, but no one has any follow-through.

Yeah, right, right.

Just in general, in any kind of industry, like, we have the plan, we've done the plan, but then nothing ever happens.

That's right.

Not fun.

We need some follow-ups.

That's a follow-up here.

Right, great.

Yep, yep, yep, yep. I'll have folks reach out to me and they'll say, okay, will you come in and do a retreat for a day? Get us ready for a great year. I'm like, that, I love the idea. And that day will be a great start for the action steps that that year's gonna take in order for that to actually happen.

Mm-hmm. Well, I think after COVID, a lot of stuff we've seen transitions for a lot of people, like just out of one industry to, into another. And having someone to help guide you is, I think is, is immeasurable, like having that. So that, that's awesome. Yeah.

Yeah. And I know you wanted to talk today and touch on imposter syndrome, which, oh my goodness. Before you got here, Marie and I were talking in a we feel like it's such an important topic. We literally all experience this.

Yeah.

And no one talks about it. And I feel like it should be talked about more because then we would know that we're all kind of in it together. Right? Yes.

Yeah.

That it's just such a, a common piece. And, and for me, I think when I, with imposter syndrome is, you know, for myself, you know, when I navigate it, um, and you know, and certainly with the women that I'm working through, it's just normalizing it in a way of it's not, It's not something to defeat us, but it's instead like, how do I learn to live with these feelings? So I'll share— imposter syndrome is important to me— a little bit about my background. So I, I was the first person in my family to graduate high school and so came from poverty and challenges that my own family navigated. And so the first kind of moment with imposter syndrome was going to, to college.

Yeah.

And going to a college campus and feeling like I had something on my forehead that told everyone that I didn't belong there and that I shouldn't be there. And that really was preventing me from, you know, pursuing cool opportunities, internships, things that I saw other people doing that I thought there was someone who had to do that. Yeah, I didn't have those. But that isn't true, right? We—

you—

no one knows who has skills and who doesn't or how many other people were first gen like me, the first person to go to college like I was. And so for me, it was, you know, now I have a bachelor's, a master's, a PhD, and I still have imposter syndrome. And, you know, I've been an associate dean, I've been directors of programs, and the imposter syndrome still shows up almost always when trying to pursue something new and different. But instead of it being something that prevents me from pursuing it, is how do I learn to live with it? I had a therapist one time do an activity with me.

Okay.

And she said, so pretend that you have like a piece of paper in front of your face and it's like right here, right in front of your face. Can you have a normal conversation? And, or do you feel pretty distracted? And I was like, it's pretty distracting.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then she said, okay, now put the paper up against my hands and your hands and push as hard as you can against me and me against you. Again, do you feel distracted or do you feel like you can have a conversation? And I said, distracted.

Yeah, definitely.

Um, and she said, okay, now just put the piece of paper on your lap. Can you be here? Can you have this conversation? And I said, yes. And that's how I think about imposter syndrome. It's not about trying to, to have it consume me and be right in my face. And it's not trying to push it away and stop it, but instead, like, it's here for lots of different reasons and reasons that may, that are likely not even true, but they're there no matter what. And so how do I learn to do the thing even without sitting in my lap?

Is it mainly women that feel that, that you No. So it seems normal. Like, I'm like, as you talked about, I'm like, oh, that— I'm a first-gen, you know, and I, I didn't, I didn't finish. So I did go, but I didn't get to finish. So I, I have that in the back of my mind encouraging my children to go. But I've noticed that it's just something on a regular basis, even our conversation with our workshop yesterday, that a lot of women feel something holding them back. And I don't— we don't ever know why.

Yeah. So the theory started The theory of imposter syndrome started with women and like really trying to understand the woman's experience of feeling, you know, why isn't she pursuing that next level leadership role at the same rates that we were seeing men? And so it did. And in working, you know, with college students and with, you know, different leadership, everyone can feel this in different ways. And so I think, that it can be heightened because of, you know, just things that we experience in the world and society as women of, you know, if we're, you know, expected to not be in that role and we are, you know, you have to navigate that differently than someone else. And so I think that there are added reasons why women do. And we have to tell ourselves that, you know, even if I'm getting this message that, you know, I don't look like the person who would be in this role or, you know, should I be doing that, that Those are messages that are there that can sit on our lap, but I'm gonna do it. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. You know, there was a gal that did a workshop here. You mentioned, you know, is it just women or do men experience this kind of stuff? And men of course do. I mean, I know they do. Um, but I'd argue probably not at the same rate. You know? Yeah. There was a gal that did a workshop here not that long ago that talked about, um, like when women were up for promotion or if they wanted to find a new job, something like, I don't know. 50% of men would not apply to a job if they didn't have like all of the qualifications that it was required, but the other 50% would and they would just be like, let's see what happens, guys.

Yep.

And 90% of women won't if they don't have every single thing ticked off that list. Um, and I found that super interesting. Like there's gotta be some, we follow rules, Erika. Well, but sometimes not following the rules is what gets you to these higher places. You know what I mean? Because maybe you don't have everything that they say, but you have these other qualifications or these other personality traits that would make you great at that job. Um, and I just thought that was super interesting. So they must feel it less, you know, than we do.

Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and the way you might be received might be different too, right? Like if I'm gonna go in and, you know, apply for a job, have I been questioned more? Like what, what's made me feel like I can't apply for that job? The same statistic of for women and jobs that they'll apply for based off of, you know, how much of the the position description, they fit or not. You see that same thing also in salary negotiation of when women will negotiate for the salary compared to men. And the, the stats are so different. And so when I'm working particularly on women and understanding, you know, how did we get to this wage gap of the difference in women where it's the same role, the same position, and we're still seeing a gap between men and women, but it's all a part of that. There's lots of, lots of factors that go into it. One of them, is who negotiates first for their salary. And so if we, if I got offered a position and he got offered the exact same position and he negotiated and I didn't, now every year where there's a merit increase, where there's an increase in any way, it's based off of the percentage of your salary. And so the gap grows and grows and grows, right? Because I didn't negotiate for my salary and building the skills. Imposter syndrome is certainly connected to why we're not advocating for our worth when it comes to promotions or even applying for jobs, um, that, you know, if you meet 50% of the qualifications, who knows? Maybe, you know, just try and see.

Yeah.

What's the harm? But I would totally not, like, thank goodness I, I work for myself now, but if I didn't, and I haven't in my life, I would never probably apply for just the way my personality is. Or I've never negotiated a salary. Like, you know, I've gotten different jobs in life and people have been like, okay, this is what it is. And I'm like, cool, that sounds good. Or it doesn't and I won't go for that thing. You know what I mean?

Well, I, I kind of went with the mindset when it came to— I didn't want to care what other people made. As long as it had— in my head, as long as I was okay with what I made, I can't worry about what other people are making. Does that make sense? Like, it would drive me bananas. Like, I, I am competitive, so I didn't want to know that they made more. If they did, it is— I just have to be happy with what I made, and I made myself okay with that, but not realizing that I could be taken advantage of at that point. Like, not thinking it that way.

Yeah.

I think cuz maybe women are, are more emotional and lead with heart versus anything. Like, I don't wanna make someone upset. I don't wanna offend anybody where men don't care. Um, they don't find it offensive if you're asking for more money and I don't know.

Yeah. I think that is oftentimes part of the resistance to it is am I going to, am I gonna come off negatively?

Yes.

If I advocate for myself or negotiate for myself. And the reframe for me is it's It's not a, it's not selfish, it's not negative to advocate for your worth or to negotiate for your salary. It's just a professional conversation to say, these are the skills and the experience I bring, and this is the salary that matches that. It's just facts.

Yeah.

Well, it seems easy when you say it.

It sounds great.

It sounds very smart. I mean, we advocate for other peop— I mean, we, I mean, obviously for our children we do that. Yeah. Right.

Yeah.

I'd go, I'd do anything for them if it's, if I, it meant their betterment or something on their behalf, I'd go all out because it's for them, but we don't do it for ourselves sometimes.

Not— yeah, that's so true. So when these— when your clients initially come to you, what are like the early conversations look like? Is it like just talking about their goals and what they want and that kind of stuff?

Yeah, so typically folks are coming to me, uh, for one-on-one coaching who are in a career transition of some sort. Maybe they are looking for that promotion or looking for, you know, to negotiate for themselves, feeling like they're not valued within their organization and wanting to get out. And so some of those conversations are going to be purely on, you know, updating your resume and feeling prepared, but a lot of times it's unpacking why you are unhappy in that role and really starting to feel empowered with what power you have to make shifts there. And so, you know, when we're frustrated at not being seen and valued, Have I said the value I bring? I, or am I assuming that they see it?

I personally, I always think people, I assume they know it and I don't say it. Like, I know I'm good at this, but, and I'm assuming you should know that. Yeah. How? I don't know. That makes no sense.

Yeah.

I'm saying that a lot. Makes no sense. But like, I've always told you, I'm like, they should know that I'm good at my job. Yeah. I am the best. And, but I don't tell people.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And we have to be able to tell people. Yeah. Because everyone is just living whatever their life is, right? And are consumed by whatever it is that is taking their mind space. And so we have to be able to say, you know, and it can't be, it doesn't have to be like, you know, I need you to understand how awesome I am. But instead it is, hey, this week I accomplished this goal and I wanna let you know that it's gonna have this impact on our organization. And it can be that short, right? Or a, hey, wanna let you know that I led my team in doing this this week. And so it doesn't have to be where you're directly saying, I wanna, I want to boast about all my accomplishments right now. You could. That feels good for you. But it's instead, what are the consistent ways that you're communicating the value you bring to your supervisor or in spaces where people who make hiring decisions have impact are hearing you, even if you're uncomfortable saying it?

Yeah. Which I feel like a lot of us are.

We are.

You know, we talk about it all the time, even during like networking and that kind of stuff. We leave ourselves for the last, right? Usually. And it's like, okay, well, you know, I don't want to Yeah, like I do this thing, but I don't know. But I will tell you that I have been making an active effort to try to say more about what I do and like how it's going. And I've received more clients because of it.

I need coaching cuz I suck at it.

Yeah. Like I just have to, and now with social media and stuff, and it, the same is true, I'm sure in organizations, not just for like entrepreneurs and that kind of stuff. Like with, we are so distracted. Everybody is so distracted. I almost need someone to have like a blinking light to be like, hi, I'm talking to you right now. Like, here it is.

Yes.

I'm saying stuff because I'm like doing this and my kid is crying and you know, whatever. And so. It's like I need so much, like just alert, like alert me because I'm not listening, you know?

Yeah.

It's hard.

Yeah.

And so our bosses probably aren't listening to all of these. They're not noticing the things that we're just quietly doing in the background.

Yeah.

Well, no, now people just wanna communi— like I know in my industry they wanna communicate via text.

Yeah.

Like I'm like, pick up your phone, but hear, hear the influx amount, hear the urgency, hear the, you know, the compassion, whatever that I'm trying to. I can't share through text.

Yeah.

And they won't pick up their phone.

Yeah.

Yeah. Like, this is important and I'm doing something for you. Pick up your phone.

Yeah, I know. That's, I, I agree of, you know, or how many times I have to say, that sounds great. Let's make that a phone call. Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh yeah, that's a good one. Yeah.

Yeah, that's true. Um, and so then what are kind of like the next steps? Then you guide your clients, um, by ways in which they can achieve these things, I imagine. And you put together these action plans for them.

Yeah, absolutely. And, uh, so what I'd say is, you know, a lot of it is the, the technical piece again on the like resume and the applications, but it's also practicing the skill of talking about yourself. Um, because it is really uncomfortable.

That'd be a great class.

Yeah, you need to have Brandi in.

And, and I think that that's— and it, it can't—

it's—

so if I just say, here's, you know, you need to talk about yourself, it's not enough, right? But it's instead Feeling how uncomfortable it feels to talk about your accomplishments.

Yeah.

You know, and that, that sets you up well for an interview, but it also sets you up well for until you land whatever position that you're searching for. How are you feeling like you're not waiting for someone else to see you, but you see you, right? You see your awesomeness, you feel it.

Yeah.

That's just getting clear. That's just, that's our whole job right there, Erika.

I know. Yeah.

Like I have such a hard time. You mentioned our networking. We have a, Uh, Erika, the last Tuesday of the month we have this brewing business and it, it's, it's wonderful and I love it, but I, I'm typically last cuz I introduce a lot of the, the ladies or I'm guiding the, the conversation and I have such a hard, oh yeah, me and I do this like, and I, I know I'm really good at what I do, but I cannot express that well. Yeah. And I don't know why.

It's so, I, it sounds like, it sounds like if we would get better at that, we would show up better probably in all aspects of our life. Yeah. Right.

Yes. Yeah. And. And it's also what you're modeling for other women, right?

That's true.

When, when, oh, good one.

It's almost as if she does this for a job, right?

I know.

To me, that's a good one. When we, you know, cuz when the, what I also see is that oftentimes women who are coming to me for support on advocating for themselves, where they have some of the hardest time in advocating themselves is to other women.

Yeah.

And feeling like they don't want to, you know, burn bridges or feel like they're trying to, you know, take over her job or whatever it might be. But when we can model that, I love when you shine and I wanna celebrate that and support that. And I'm also gonna show you how I shine. Yeah. And how I talk about that. Um, I want this class.

Mm-hmm.

Let's do it.

Yeah.

It's an, I mean, I'm just thinking, I'm like, when you said, you know, that, we teach other people. I'm like, oh, that's a good one. Like if I don't do it, then that next person won't do it. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Like that makes me feel like it's a cert— like we're not bringing the services to our, our, our friend or our networking group. Yeah.

I mean, I think that part of it is just like women's just traits in general that we just don't, you know, I don't know what it is about it, but like men don't do this, but like women feel like if I'm bragging about me, then I'm putting you down. Like, or I'm making you small. And I would never wanna make someone feel small, you know what I mean? And so then you just don't, but it needs to be the opposite. You need to say, look at these cool things I'm doing, and let's talk about the cool things you're doing. And, and really uplifting people in that way because, um, and that's what we're really all about here.

Mm-hmm.

There's enough business for all of us.

And there's enough, yes, you've always said that, you know, there's enough for everybody.

We're in a huge town and you know, there's, there's room for us all. And so I just feel like Talking about your, your own accomplishments isn't diminishing someone else.

Mm-hmm.

Um, or dimming them. So we need to all do that more.

Yeah. Yeah.

And like, and it's also seeing the piece of, we can notice it of, I wanna model other people shining, but it's also seeing that we're already modeling not doing that.

Yeah.

When we choose not to, when we're not highlighting ourselves, when we, you know, fall into this trap of, I don't, you know, I don't wanna seem like I'm bragging or boastful because I don't wanna make you feel bad. That's modeling. Right?

Mm-hmm.

We're already saying, yeah, none of us should be doing that because it's not good. But if we, you know, have a collective way of being like, I shine, you shine, um, it just changes the narrative. It changes the, the dynamic. And, and truly that's what I feel when I come to Working Moms. I mean, it is a, it's a space where, you know, folks are really able to, you, you have the intentional at the, you know, brewing businesses of folks to share, you know, what do you do? What is it that you do? And, Um, and that's uncomfortable, right? To have to do, but it's so people, that's why people are coming, right? Because they wanna be able to make connections.

Well, and we actively listen. Like, I truly wanna hear what everyone does and if they have an event and like, I, I really want to hear that. And you're not just, oh, going through the, the steps.

Sure.

Like, it is important. Um, and it gives people the opportunity, like if you can't do it in front of like me, if you can do it in front of us, that means you can do it in front of other people too. Mm-hmm. So that's what my thought process is when we kind of started it. Like, hey, it gives them an opportunity with friends, right? People who like you and who want to hear you to share your, your business, to share your your talent, and then maybe that will encourage you to do that with others. And yeah, there you have a thriving business. That'd be great.

Totally.

So yeah.

Yeah, I like that.

You shine, I shine. I like that.

That should be a song. Um, yeah. Do you, maybe it is. Um, do you have any like maybe small reframes or like tips that you could give our listeners when they are experiencing imposter syndrome? Because we all have it and it would be great to have just like a little mantra or something that we could say to ourselves. Yeah.

Yeah. So the, the biggest one for me again is the, I go through the analogy of the, am I, is it the paper? Is it covering my face right now? Is, am I trying to say go away by pushing against it? Or is it just sitting on my lap? Yeah. And so my mantra for me is, I see you, you're there, and I'm doing it anyway. Um, and so I think the biggest piece on the, the reframe is don't feel succumbed to it. Don't feel like there's something wrong with you because you have this, but instead normalizing like, you're there. There's probably lots of different reasons why you're there, and it doesn't mean it's true. Um, and so I think the— it's learning to have the feeling there and do it anyway.

Yeah, I guess as you do it more often and practice at it, you get better at it. Yeah, I would assume like as you step out and say, hey, I am good at these things and this is why I'm, you know, whatever. Yeah. And you know, it then hopefully will become easier for you to share those Yeah.

And it's noticing that, cuz oftentimes when, when we're first talking about, you know, imposter syndrome or self-doubt, it's not always, uh, that we're conscious of that feeling or that that's happening. It's happening. And then when you can start to unpack it, you're like, oh, I guess that is self-doubt. That, that is what's happening. But I just hadn't really let myself feel it or experience it. Um, is noticing it so that you can not let it be what guides you, but instead to be like, oh, that's self-doubt. That's telling me, oh, I shouldn't apply for that job. I shouldn't tell that person, you know, oh, I'm actually really good at that and I can help you with that. Um, because our self-doubt is preventing us. But instead to say, my self-doubt is telling me that I'm gonna be really uncomfortable in this conversation and I'm gonna have the conversation. Um, but so often imposter syndrome and self-doubt is what guides us to say, okay, I'm not gonna do it because it's not going to go well, or, you know, whatever it might be. But even if it's clunky and not perfect, but when folks come to us or when folks really show who they are, you know, it's much more relatable than if you just don't do anything because the self-doubt prevented you.

I think I was telling you at our workshop yesterday that I can get in front of people and talk all day long when they've come to hear what I needed to say, if that makes sense. If I'm putting on a workshop or a class or talking, or if someone's coming to me for my services, I can tell you all the things. It's when the people people haven't asked for that information that I need to share them. I need them to know that I'm great at what I do, that I have a hard time sharing. Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

It's really hard for me and I don't know why. It doesn't make any sense. So, yeah. Mm-hmm.

Well, I mean, and I think I shared with you that I was the opposite of that.

Yeah. You're the complete opposite.

I could never talk in front of anyone, but it's easy for me to strike up a conversation about real estate cuz I can turn anything into that. You know, it's been a long, it's been a good long while. So, Um, but yeah, I mean, maybe that's just like our little, our little self-doubts being like, hey, even though I'm good at this thing, I'm not really that good at that other thing.

Yeah.

So probably I just shouldn't do that other thing. It's like, no, probably you should and do it more.

Yeah.

And not assume that, uh, you know, oftentimes what guides the self-doubt can be, well, they don't wanna know this, or, um, you know, that there's something wrong with, uh, you know, boasting about yourself. And there isn't anything wrong with that, right? To be able to say, You know, like I think about the brewing business example. Yeah. And instead of waiting, you know, like, oh well, yeah. And I'm real and I'm, and I do this thing too. Um, but being able to say, you know, this is, this is what I do and I'm strong at it. And, and it doesn't have to be, you can say it and not be fully okay inside with it yet.

Mm-hmm.

Um, you know, I think about that anytime that I've gone into a job interview or meeting with a client or saying my prices to someone.

Um, that's a tough one.

Prices.

Yeah.

That's a good one.

It's uncomfortable.

Uncomfortable and I say it anyway. Yeah. So it's also not striving for, let me not feel any discomfort. I mean, if you do great, I've never gotten there.

Yeah.

No, but I say it anyway.

What a life that would be. Who are those people? Like, I'm like, comment on this podcast. Do you never feel discomfort? You'll have no comments. Let's hang out.

But you know, I, I thinking about, I lost a client, right? Yeah. Because I, I couldn't beat, uh, a certain, uh, rate. That someone else was offering, and it hurt. It hurts bad. But I've learned to say, okay, I know my value. I can't, I can't do it for free, or I can't pay you to do your loan. Like, I can't do that. Yeah, it doesn't work that way. And it is what it is, but it— I don't know how to get away from it. Still hurts my feelings. Like, it really does. It hurts my feelings. Like, I'm like, oh, you didn't pick me and I'm great. Yeah, you know, it hurts my feelings. Yeah, well, maybe I'm so girly. I'm very girly.

Well, we all are, I think, to some degree, but Maybe like Brandy said, just practicing talking about, you know, why, why maybe that'll make some of that kind of be less, you know, you already know, you're already confident. I can hear you say, you're already saying like, I'm great at this. So, you know, well, I know, like, you know that that's true, which is good.

Logic, when I look at, I'm like, I, it, it's, it's something I can't, I can't, I cannot do. And I'm, I'm worth this much, right?

Yeah.

And at the end of the day, but it's still, I'm like, I, I wish it didn't bother me that I had to say, I'm sorry, I can't do it. Yeah. You know? Yeah.

I don't know that that's necessarily the goal though. I mean, I think it is, I think it's okay to have both of both to stand firm in, you know, this is my value and this is, this is what it costs to work with me and to be like, dang. And I, you know, that's, uh, it's unfortunate that that didn't work for that person.

Yeah.

But that you still stood firm with your own value. Um, but I don't know that that feeling would go away necessarily.

Mm-hmm.

Of.

I wish that it worked for everybody and, and it might not. And that's also important for that other person to know, right? Of that this, to get this level of work that you offer, this is what it costs.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Not everybody's for everybody. No, that's okay. You know, that's just the way, but there's plenty of people out there for you.

There is. There's my business. I gotta keep working at it. Yeah.

Yeah. And you also, so it's not just an individual basis. You also can do this for, for organizations as well.

Yeah.

And what does that look like?

Yeah.

So my, and this is, this is as a business owner where I have like my, my, my business is two lanes.

Um, yeah.

Because the one-on-one, well, I say that and I do coaching in the, um, with teams and, and organizations. It could be where the, the organization has me come in to do, you know, a full day of development or a development plan, but then I'm also doing one-on-one coaching with leaders and individuals based off of those folks' own goals and needs where they need to grow. Um, But for the most part, there's my, my one-on-one coaching with women that primarily focuses on, you know, what the self-doubt and the advocating for yourself and your worth, um, and career transitions. And then with organizations and teams, it's, uh, it's the strategic planning and really creating an action plan for making that happen. Uh, my background has always been, uh, in higher education, really with a focus on equity and inclusion and How are we creating spaces where people feel valued and celebrated because of who they are? And so a lot of my training and development has been on team culture, team connectedness, and, you know, when issues of bias or when folks feel like they're not understood or not being seen for their value, how do we have hard conversations and work through mistakes and challenges?, um, in addition to communication and conflict resolution and kind of the more general what, uh, a lot of teams are looking for, but then also some specific related to what are the ways that you're creating inclusion and belonging on your team.

That's so important. I feel like, you know, I mean, you see people, well, we see a lot of people that are leaving corporate positions and stuff because like, you know, the, the way that they feel there at their job is, yeah, is maybe not how they'd like it to feel. And so I feel like If more companies were sort of focusing on that thing, they may keep people around a little bit longer, you would think.

Yeah. And I think the piece too of when doing this work is, you know, I'll come in, you know, maybe I'm doing a training that is on inclusive language and, you know, recognizing what are the ways that, you know, maybe this is how I've always learned to greet someone or talk to someone. And I didn't realize that it was limiting folks. And I come in and I say, you're not going to leave today and never experience inequities in this space and place, but instead also the skills for when it arises, is your team prepared to support each other in growth around it? Do I humanize you in knowing that you are going to make a mistake? And do I have the skills to be able to work through that as a team so that instead of it being like, this isn't a space and a place for me, but instead, can I say, when you did that, It was wrong and hurtful. Can we talk about it?

Yeah.

I think it's important.

Totally. Just encouraging those conversations. I think in a workplace there's a lot of, of holding back because you don't want to upset somebody or like maybe lose your job.

Yeah.

You know, or that kind of stuff.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but I do like that companies are hiring people like you to try to work through these things and start having these conversations instead of just being like, well, this is the way this company is and kind of get in or get out, you know? Um, that is super important.

I think it's when companies start to care about their employees. Yeah, right. And that, that's— you see a lot of people leaving corporate because they don't have that environment.

Yeah, they're not feeling that.

No, that's why you see a lot of people trying to figure out making their side hustle their main job, or getting out and being, you know, employed. And but then you become a company yourself, so then you hire people, then you have to just, you know, demonstrate those qualities.

Yeah, definitely.

Yeah, I think it's just a when companies and organizations see that just human interaction is going to happen that isn't even necessarily work-related and can be work-related, but it's going to happen within the workplace. And when one instance happens and isn't addressed, it festers and then gossip happens and then it just kind of keeps impacting the organization. But when you instead can have the skills to be able to say, hey, Erika, when this happened, it really you know, hurt my feelings, or I know that wasn't your intention, but can we talk about what the impact that that had? Instead of assuming, okay, Erika's not going to listen to me, she doesn't care, it's going to go terrible. But if instead I assume, or I just open myself up to knowing that I actually don't know how the conversation was going to go, but I'm going to have it. There's so much good that can typically happen when you just choose to sit with someone and say, can we talk about this?

Yes. And that happens in your— it'll trickle down as you learn these skills to your normal life. With your spouse or with your kids and all of those things.

But I think those skills have been kind of lost, like the, the, the, the art of talking with someone or having conversations. We, we avoid it. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I know I do sometimes. Like when I'm, I'm, I, I head to the grocery store, I don't want to talk to people. I want to get my groceries and leave. My husband's the opposite. He wants to talk to everybody, which is great. But sometimes, like, we've— and I don't know why, it didn't used to be like that. Like, I've lost the, the art of conversation. So even within workplaces, we've been so separate for so long, remote, that we forget there's a human being on the other end of that email, text, phone call, whatever it is, because we're not together as teams a lot of it. I know companies are starting to come back to where people are in the office, and that's where I've seen different— now I'll say conflicts, or, you know, where things aren't as smooth as they could have been just because people don't know how to talk anymore.

Yeah, that's probably true. I mean, especially after COVID and stuff, you know, that people are—

just because you're distant and, and, you know, we have a lot of technology that it's involved that has you— if you don't practice a skill, you lose it.

That's right. Now everything's automated, right? So there's not as much face-to-face stuff.

So we don't—

even in virtual spaces, you're gonna still see the same kind of conflicts that will arise. Because even, you know, even when I was still working in higher ed post-COVID, still after coming back, 85 to 90% of my meetings were virtual, even though we were all on campus. Um, but it was still just made it easier for everyone to, you know, go to multiple meetings and, um, but the, it actually can increase it because you can be like, okay, why, why was her face like that while she was on mute? Like, did she mean something? But you have no idea.

Oh, that's so true.

Yeah.

Like, like reading into someone's facial expressions, just like you, and we've talked about this a bunch. Yeah. Just like you read into someone's like text message or like in my case, punctuation. Like if, if I don't get at least one exclamation mark, I assume you're like not friendly. And like then I'm reeling cuz I'm like, I'm like, oh my God, they already hate me. Like, why does this person hate me? They gave me no exclamation marks. Like, what is this? And so obviously that's me in my own head, like making up a fictionalized scenario.

I randomly will throw in emojis for, for Erika when I text her.

Erika needs them.

Yeah. And then you— this is a fun one. When I was working with college students and learning also the perception on emojis, because I would send a smiley face. Yeah. Oh Lord, no, no, you're gonna ruin this for me, Brandi.

Come on.

I learned that they were like, Brandi, it really scares me. That I got students say it It scares me when you send a smiley face because are you going, oh really?

And I was like, like sort of like a little bit of like a sarcastic. Yeah.

My smile is also real.

I was like, I'm genuinely smiling at you. And they're like, that's not what it feels like.

I will say, oh my God. I will say I will only send the smiley face that is just like the plain smiley and not like the teethy one. Cuz I don't wanna be like psycho, like, like, but it's the plain smiley.

It's the plain smiley. Smiling that they said no.

Generationally, maybe it's different.

Oh my God, it was good to learn about it. Yeah, that's funny.

I didn't know.

Well, I'm just saying, like, I, I noticed, like, in, in my environment, like, I can't get people to— we were just talking focus. Yeah, like, okay, put your phone down, stop, listen to what I am saying. Yeah, like, this is what I'm trying to— because I get so frustrated. Like, I put this in an email, I wrote it out, I, I bullet pointed it, I highlighted, I even did all the things. Come on. And they still don't get it. I'm like, oh.

Yeah.

So much can be lost in translation. I feel like in terms of just like text communication and even it seems like maybe like muted Zoom. Zoom.

Yeah. Why is their camera off? What does that mean? Like, why did they just turn that? When I just made that comment, they turned their camera off. I know they did it because of this reason. Oh my goodness.

I thought of, now you have that in the back of my head now. Yeah.

But it doesn't, it's just, it's, it's more of the, Uh, you know why folks, I think a lot of the avoidance of these harder conversations or what we expect will be hard conversations is just our assumptions.

Yeah.

We have all these assumptions of how the scenario's gonna play out or why they did what they did. Um, instead of, you know, maybe they just spilled coffee on their pants and it was, it was just that, right?

Yeah.

Or, you know, but we play these other stories in our head.

Yeah. What happened? I, I have done that even, even relationship, like with my husband, I'll say something and he goes, wait, set, like, I'm like, I'm your wife. I'm not saying it mean, like, yeah, why don't you just take it stressed out? Sometimes I am like, I'm not trying, I'm not wishing you the, you know, you're my, you know, my family. Yeah. I, I love you. And so take it with that. Like, think that first before you assume something bad.

Yeah.

But yes, so I have to learn to be nicer cause I'm like, I care about you, period. Now do this, Roger.

But no, thankfully Roger doesn't listen to the podcast.

But I mean, you have to like— I even tell my sons when they're communicating with each other, I'm like, hey, well, he's being this and he's being like— I have two boys. I'm like, wait, hold on, he's— listen to— he's, he's tired, he's this or whatever, he's not trying to do whatever it is you think he's doing. Like, stop. Yeah, it's your brother. Like, come on. All right, he's still an ass or whatever.

Yeah, yeah. Oh man, there's so much in there. There's a lot of this.

I think, I mean, when you— when I heard— when I heard the top, imposter syndrome, I don't know if you've ever seen the episode. We, we were— watched Friends and Big Bang on like cycles religiously in our— in my family. So there's a— there's an episode with, um, on the Big Bang where they have this imposter syndrome with this, um, uh, scientist or whatever. And it's just— it's hilarious because she's like, I'm not imposter, we did it, you're the imposter. It was crazy. So when I think of that, so I think about it, so I'm Oh my God, I don't want to be the imposter. Yeah, yeah.

But we all feel it.

We do.

We do. I think in, in our industry especially, I, I mean, a lot of my industry is men, so in what I do is typically men tend to be the face of, um, a team a lot of the times, which they're great at, but they don't do all the, the busy work in the background. But I'm like, I, I know more. Like, I, I know I'm good at— but I feel I'm 4'11" and I'm, I'm female. Like, I still have realtors that call me, hey kid, Like, no, no, I'm a full-grown woman. Like, I am a full— I realize you're old, but I'm still full. And I've always been a lot of times up until now, typically was— I started in the industry very young, so I started in my early, early 20s, and I've been in it for a very long time. But I was always the youngest, so I was always a kid in a lot of people's eyes. And I always felt like I'm— I know a lot. Like, I'm— yeah, really good at this. Yeah, it's hard.

Well, and I think when you describe that too, of like, you know, how do we get to imposter syndrome? How do we get to the self-doubt? In the story that you just shared, that's part of it, right? Like, who's been the face? And that doesn't look like my face. And how am I treated by those who are in leadership roles contributes to the way that we feel. And, and it, and it makes us ask the question of, oh gosh, why am I not like showing that I'm, that I'm strong? Like, why would they call me kid? You know? But instead it can be the reframe that I would say here is they haven't done the work to understand why I am the leader. It's them that needs to do the work, not me. Right. Um, instead of personalizing it or validating our own insecurities, it's instead to see they've got work to do.

Yeah.

And, um, and that's not mine.

I learned to walk away to hopefully it was a term of endearment.

Yeah.

You know, I'm like, he's, he was older and I, I get it, but yeah, I'm definitely not a kid.

Yeah.

No, I wouldn't like that. I wouldn't like that.

I would, yeah.

I wouldn't feel like a term of endearment to me.

No. It's like when someone says babe or someone says like, I'm like, just get outta here.

Yeah. Thanks.

Done. No thanks.

No thanks.

You're good. Well, this has been amazing.

I feel like we need a workshop. Yeah.

I feel like number one, we need a workshop. We've unpacked some of our own personal BS, which is interesting. Um, and I feel like you shared some really good tips with our listeners about what they can do, um, with imposter syndrome and that it's not about pushing it away or getting rid of it. It's about accepting it and doing the hard things anyway. So I'm gonna carry a piece of paper around with me.

Yeah. Like I'm gonna carry that. I'm serious. Like to have a visual reminder of like, hey, just put it on your lap and get through it. Yeah.

Um, and then usually towards the end, we will ask our, uh, guests to share with our listeners how people can get a hold of you.

Yeah. Uh, thank you. So Dr. Brandy Scott, uh, you can find me on LinkedIn. Um, you can also find me on Instagram, @brandyscottphd. Um, and my website is brandyscottphd.com.

Perfect. We'll put all that in the show notes and make it super easy.

So thank you so much for being a friend.

This was a great conversation.

It was, it was really cool.

Yes. And I feel like our listeners are gonna really enjoy it.

Awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah. And then quickly, I'll thank our listeners for tuning into this week's episode, and we will catch you guys next time.

See you guys next week.

Thanks so much for tuning into this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you loved today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello@workingmomsofsanantonio.com. We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, see you in the community.