I Spent $100,000 On Family Law

Welcome to the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're your hosts, Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a realtor and lender here in San Antonio. But most importantly, we're working moms just like you.

This podcast is all about creating a space where we can come together, share stories, and learn from each other. We love connecting with local moms in business Hearing about their journeys and how they're balancing it all, because let's be honest, it's not always easy, but it's so worth it.

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Now on to today's episode. Grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's get started. Welcome to the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're your hosts, Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a realtor and lender here in San Antonio. But most importantly, we're working moms just like you.

This podcast is all about creating a space where we can come together, share stories, and learn from each other. We love connecting with local moms in business here about their journeys and how they're balancing it all. Because let's be honest, it's not always easy, but it's so worth it.

Before we dive in today's episode, we're excited to share some big news with you all.

Our business community and coworking memberships are officially open. Whether you're looking for a supportive community of moms in business or need a beautiful space to work and grow, we've got just what you need here at Working Moms of San Antonio. You can visit the link in our show notes or or workingmomsofsanantonio.com/membership for more info.

Now on to today's episode. Grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's get started.

Well, my name is Maribel Cruz. I'm an attorney, and we focus primarily on family law matters. So that can include divorces, custody disputes, child support, child support, adoptions. That's our favorite thing.

Yeah.

But that comes few and far between. Most of this stuff is pretty complicated, complex, stressful.

Yeah. And I'm Shanti Day, also do family law. And yeah, I mean, basically anything that has to do with family in the court, we've probably touched it.

It's not like you get married with the anticipation of getting a divorce.

I think we were the same when, when I graduated from law school, there were two things that I absolutely was never gonna do, family law and criminal law. And I actually got started doing Social Security disability. I did that for about 10 years. And that, that industry is interesting. And it's hard. It's literally life and death. And so I got to a point where I had to get out and I actually had a former employee who had left and was at his own firm and He said, "Come over, try it." And he pulled me out of the disability world and I started doing family law. And it turns out it's a lot of the same skills. It's helping people through really tough times in their lives, but it's not usually life and death, which makes it somehow easier. So, you know, I found I really liked being able to make a difference and impact people and hopefully positively, at least getting them closure on issues, moving forward.

I can tell you that my journey was somewhat similar, that I got outta law school and was doing kind of insurance defense. So you have an insurance company, you get into an accident and you get sued, the insurance company provides you with an attorney and that kind of ran the gamut from individuals to business owners to, you know, commercial construction kind of stuff. And it was fun, but it wasn't that much fun. And then as I kind of moved throughout my career, I found I switched to the plaintiff's side. Then I started doing business entity formation and business litigation and things like that. And then I just kind of started integrating family law in. And from the professional side, I can tell you that the reason I fell into it is because I absolutely love what I do. I'm passionate about it. I cannot tell you how much enjoyment I get out of going to the courthouse every day. And fortunately or unfortunately, depending on how you look at it, this job lets me go to the courthouse every day. But from a personal side, I went through a divorce that was financially devastating to me. I, you know, I'm a lawyer, I got a law degree, I had been working, but I stopped working for a couple years to have a child. And so at the time that my husband came to me and told me, I want a divorce, I had only a part-time job making maybe $40,000 a year and a little son that was 5, 4 or 5 years old. And, you know, come to find out I had handed all of my paychecks over to my husband. I had let him run all the finances.

This—

and I realized we're this much in debt and no retirement and no real money assets to speak of. And that process has then, it moved me into the direction of being able to explain to clients, okay, this is a situation you're in, you're never going to let it happen to you again. You're learning from it now. Here's all the things you can do never to let that happen again. And let's get you in a position where hopefully you can build. So this is the worst tragedy of your life, but let's build you up from it and learn good lessons.. And so I've been able to kind of take that and extrapolate it through a lot of situations since then.

This thing we both talk a lot about, how we take our life situations and the things that have happened to us and use that to help our clients. My— I went through a divorce also. I got lucky, lucky. No kids, no property. It was a fairly painless divorce, but there was a lot of mental health issues in my marriage and That plus the disability work means when someone comes to me and there are mental health issues, I can take my experience and say, okay, I hear what, I hear you, I get what you're going through, I understand it. Here's what we're gonna do to get you out of it or through it or protect your kids or protect you while we're getting you through it. So, you know, we talk a lot about the things that we've gone through in our lives that made us better lawyers. 'cause if we can use it, then this perspective, right? We talk about the fact that we play therapist about as often as we play lawyer.

Yeah. 'Cause we're attorneys and counselors at law.

There's a lot. Montyville was pregnant with her oldest when we met through a mutual friend who's also an attorney. I was in law school. I realized that today.

Really?

I was a 3L in law school when we met. I had to do the math on 17 years ago and where I was. So yeah, we, and you know, we kind of, we weren't close until our friend ran for judge. And then we kind of went through the trenches. And then this one says to me, oi, there's this group that you do fundraising and they pay for you to go run a marathon. Just come to this meeting with me. 7 half marathons later with Team in Training, which is a Leukemia and Lymphoma Society fundraising arm. And they're fantastic, but like you bond. Mile 10, mile 11, you bond. So yes. So we got real close. And then I had kids and then she had another kid. And I mean, we've circled each other professionally for a long time and we've always said, we're not going into business together. I like you too much.

You're my friend.

We're not going to mess that up. So COVID hit. I went out on my own. We kind of started talking a little more. And then early this year, she's like, nope, that's it. I got what you need, you got what I need, we need to do this. And we joke that we dated for a couple months to see if we could do it, and then we got married. And I mean, I think it's working really well. Yeah, yeah. I think that the— this—

I think that the parts that I'm not good at, or that this— I, you know, just fall down on, she fixed— she fixes that. Like, she comes in and she fixes all my yuck. And then I kind of come in and kind of calm her down and fix her kind of yuck. And so it's a good relationship because like she talked about knowing more about the psychological part and like, yes, that's her forte. So I'll get an expert that starts talking all, you know, way knowledgeable, more than me. And I'm like, here, Shawnti, take a look at this and fix this, or I do this, you know. So she picks up the pieces where I really do kind of fall down.

And then she goes into court like a like a Valkyrie, like, takes her sword out and gets things for our clients. So I'm like, whoa. Yeah, no, we definitely, we have opposite strengths and weaknesses. Yeah, we complement. Yeah, it works really well. Plus we laugh a lot.

There's moments when we go off on a lot of tangents, but it's also good because we know how the brain thinks and you know where your lines are, how far you can push that button with your with your coworker or partner. And then you step back like, OK, got her that far.

That's all we're going to do today. And we're total geeks.

Yeah, so this Star Wars thing, and just—

I don't know why.

It's kind of those things you just grow up with. So it's always been kind of fun for me. To me, it was like a Princess Leia turns to Jedi, turns into running the world. And so therefore, she's my superhero kind of thing. And then it just went. Feet from there. And now my child's name is Cody. And if you don't watch Star Wars, I can tell you that Cody is Clone Commander Cody and his middle name is Mace, like Mace Windu. So Cody Mace is my kid.

Wow, you guys are really all up in it.

There is no typical day. So in an ideal world, my job is more the administrative side of stuff, the billing and the management and the planning and all that. But in reality, I mean, we've been in business this 3 months, right?

Yeah.

Have exploded. So we are incredibly busy. So I mean, a typical day, a whole lot of sitting at my computer, drafting documents, emailing with clients and opposing counsel. I'm on the phone. It could include court, it could include mediation, it could include talking to a new client. This, I don't know that there's a typical, right?

My, my things are different though.

Yes. Yeah.

And I, I'm more of the, the courtroom person. So, because I love it, that, that's, that's the thing that just gets me up in the morning and makes me all excited about going places. But like getting up at the crack of dawn to attempt to work out, which doesn't ever work, and then getting a kid or two kids to where they need to go in the morning and then rushing to an 8:30 docket sometimes, or not rushing and getting there at 8:30 for a 9:00 docket to go to court that could last anywhere from 2 hours to all day. And then rushing to get another kid to an extracurricular activity. Right. And then somewhere in there shoving food in people's faces and then putting them to bed. Right. Yeah, that's my day.

Yeah, that's a typical mom. Lottie's husband works out of town a lot of the time, so she is not a single parent, but dear goodness gracious, she acts like it a lot. So I would agree, her day is chaos pretty much all the time. And like, she does. Like, my perfect world would be at my desk doing planning and spreadsheets and the SOPs, and I'd be in heaven. And then Maudie would like walk in the door, our paralegal would hand her a notebook, she'd walk out the door and go to court to save the world. Like, that would be our perfect world.

Yeah.

Not there yet, but we're working on it.

I'm good there. I think this— I've been doing this for over 20-something years. This time, unfortunately, has been the thing that has gotten me to where I don't bring it home.

The base stuff.

I don't bring the bad stuff. But it's taken me a lot of time and effort and a lot of friends to say, this was my day-to-day. This is the bad thing that happened to me. I can't shake it, I can't let it go, and I'm a horrible— a lot of this is I'm a horrible person because I manipulated somebody to do XYZ. That was one of the most recent ones. That one had me pissed up for about a week and a half, if not longer. And I had to go to a bunch of different friends because I don't go to therapists, I don't have time for the therapist. And it sucks, I get it, but my friends now are all of my therapists. So I just kind of pick all my friends and just kind of unload. And then the more I talk about it, the more it kind of— I get past it. And, you know, people feed it into my head. I think the other thing that I've done a lot is I look at what these other families are doing and the mistakes that they're making. What I've tried to do over the years is say, and it identified, this is the catalyst for all of these other mistakes or all other ramifications that have happened. And so take that mistake, Marty, and learn from that mistake. Don't do that at home. Don't do that to your husband. Don't do that to your kids. And, you know, kind of this manipulate, manipulate their bad behavior or bad outcome and learn that that's not okay in my home.

Yeah, you know, I think people think most divorces are because someone cheated or someone stole money. It's not. It's, it's the hundred— it was death by a thousand paper cuts. Yeah, that comes to us far more often. I agree. I, I get annoyed with my husband and then I'm like, oh, but I know that this guy today that I talked to was dealing with this. So that's not that big of a deal. Yeah. You know, I spent 10 years, like I said, literally dealing with life and death. If I didn't win my clients' cases, they could die because they weren't going to be able to get medical care. And that, you know, when that's my measure, it's a lot easier to come here and say, you know, this, this, it's bad, it's personal. And we tell people like, this is very personal for you. It is our job. And we understand it's very personal for you, but we give you that space where we can look at it professionally. And professionally, I can look at this and say, that's not life and death. That's not going to die if we don't get this. You may not get to see your kids until 6 o'clock instead of 3 o'clock when you wanna see them. Hmm. What are we gonna do to make that work for you? But let's put it in perspective. And so I think that perspective has made it easier for me to step back and not necessarily bring it home. But I do like Monty does, and I think a lot of attorneys, I assume in all areas, but certainly at family law, we have our circle of friends. We're a very small community and we may go head to head in the courtroom, But outside the courtroom, we're all dealing with the same stuff. And it is likely that that person that your lawyer's fighting with today is who they're calling tomorrow to say, oh my gosh, I had this terrible day and this happened. Because we do, we understand each other and we understand what we're dealing with and we are each other's therapists. We celebrate the successes too. Yeah, sure. Just as much time as we have to explain to our client why we can't get them what they want for whatever reason, we have just as many, if not more, where we say, hey, We got you that. We, and my favorite story is about a client I took in for what was basically an agreed divorce. We were walking in, I was like, hey, is there anything you want? She said, I'd really like to keep my dogs. Dogs are property, they're not kids. You don't fight over custody of dogs. Well, we got the dogs. And I was like, okay, that was our man. It was, it's such a little thing, but it made her day. Yeah. So, so we take the wins. We, we focus on the positives, I think, and the wins that we get.

Oh yeah, you know, the other day I was having kind of a rough day.

I'm no factual to this.

Having a rough, rough day. And it was the end of the day. I was just picked up my kid. I think that's what it was. And I got just this random text. I didn't have that telephone number saved in my phone. And it basically said, you know, I don't know if you remember who I am, but I took everything that you said to heart. I changed my life. I've been now sober for— I don't remember how long he was sober— and my marriage is working out. The kids are great. My wife is great. My relationship is great. And if I hadn't listened to you, we would have been down this other road.

And it was just a very heartful, thankful kind of—

and after a minute, I remembered who he was. But it was like, this was 5 years ago that we went through this situation.

And it gives me a little chill every time.

You know, it's not every day that you get a thank you because I have a very yucky thankless type of job. But then you realize that the things that you say and the things that you do, you don't necessarily know who's actually listening and how much they're listening until way later when something like that pops up and then you're like, okay, well, at least I'm not talking to the air.

Yeah, right. Someone's listening. I was an attorney before I had kids for Why don't you know, my kids are 10 and I've been practicing 17 years. Yeah. And no, for sure. I can tell the difference between what I was like before kids and, you know, people joke like, oh, you don't understand because you're not a mother. And I always thought that's such a stupid thing, but no, frankly, really, I was a great lawyer before I was a mother.

Don't get me wrong.

There are plenty of fantastic lawyers who are not parents who are amazing at their job, but it's different. Yeah, just different. So to discount the dads, because I think we've had plenty of dads who just say, nobody understands me, they assume the mom is always right, I'm just gonna lose from the dad. And we have to be like, your parent is good for you as we would for a mom, because there's just as much right to be in these kids' lives. Uh, I think maybe we fight harder for dads sometimes.

And to be, to be honest, for those things that I went through in my divorce You work hard. And I got through it. Then I started doing family law, and I started with a family law firm that was more focused on dad's rights and men's rights. But what I found was behind every dad, there's a sister, there's a mother, there's an aunt. That we've all had this situation where you've got your male family members, your male friends who are going through, you know, something difficult. And just by virtue of your genitalia, now all of a sudden you're being told that you don't have, you know, access or rights or the ability to be involved in your kids' lives. And it became, for me, this— this— it became an agenda for me, kind of. That's the right word.

I don't know, maybe I just like underdogs.

I, I just like fighting. But I, I've seen over the years that I've been doing this that The dads had it a lot harder. And over the last few years, we've been able as an industry to be able to gain ground to the degree that we're looking at more dads who have equal access to their kids. And when I say equal access, I mean like 50% of the time, not the 30, 45, you know, 47, wait, fuck, whatever they say. Yeah. We're looking at the ability to have more dads involved, and I've been more successful at getting dads even more time sometimes than moms, because it doesn't matter what gender you are, if you're behaving poorly to your kids, it's bad.

Like, that's not— more dads are realizing that they can ask for that, and they can ask for more time with their kids, and they can— it's okay to say, no, I want— I want this time as I can get. I want to be as involved like here. And that's it, you know, it's, it's a cycle. So it makes it easier. So more dads say, hey, I want it. And yeah, it's nice to see this.

But I, it's embarrassing. And she knows, she's looking at me like, you know, I love going to court. She just, yeah, I can love going to court. And I, you know, I'm not asking for my clients to fight. So I'll, I'll not fight just as much as I will fight. And I think thing in the world is counterpart.

It really is.

She gets like my favorite. You know, it's funny because if you'd asked me that 6 months ago or maybe a year ago, my answer would've been different. But I like working with Chart. I didn't realize how much I missed being around other people. During COVID I worked out of my house. Like I joked, my dogs were my paralegals. I really like being around these people, the people that we have We call them our Island of Misfit Toys. They are the people we put together here. I love coming to work with these people every day, even when they frustrate me and we're screaming and yelling. I love making a difference. Immeasurable. Like, I can see the difference I'm making in people's lives. And that is— yeah, that's the new goal. And the fact that I get to be like, you know what? My kids have a school production. I'm going to go see my kids.

Yeah.

We're going to be in that. Yeah. We're like, I'm going to take— get up and go camping and, you know, this, yeah, those are my favorite things. You know, every attorney has what we call billable hour requirements. Basically, you have to work X amount so that you make enough to pay your salary. And I think every firm is different. Some are, they believe that in work-life balance and they are more likely to have attorneys that are happier and able to have, and some are not.

This, right?

This around here, this, they've got this.

We, you have your requirements, but we're not gonna dictate to you where you do it or how you do it. Well, maybe how you do it if you're doing it wrong, but not where you're doing it or when you're doing it.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you loved today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello@workingmomsofsanantonio.com. We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, see you in the community.