The Estate Planning Secrets You NEED to Know

Welcome to the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We're your hosts, Erika Radis and Marie Lifschultz, a realtor and lender here in San Antonio. But most importantly, we're working moms just like you.

This podcast is all about creating a space where we can come together, share stories, and learn from each other. We love connecting with local moms in business Hearing about their journeys and how they're balancing it all, because let's be honest, it's not always easy, but it's so worth it.

Before we dive in today's episode, we're excited to share some big news with you all.

Our business community and coworking memberships are officially open. Whether you're looking for a supportive community of moms in business or need a beautiful space to work and grow, we've got just what you need here at Working Moms of San Antonio. You can visit the link in our show notes or workingmomsofsanantonio.com/membership for more info.

Now on to today's episode. Grab a cup of coffee, settle in, and let's get started.

Welcome to this week's episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. Today we are here with our guest, Katherine Byers. And we're going to turn it over to her to talk about all things estate planning.

Yay! Excited. One of my favorite things to talk about. Yeah, great. Yeah. Most people don't like to talk about it, but I could probably could talk about it for days, so.

Yeah, well, I'm excited to hear all the things.

Yes. Well, my name's Katherine Byers. I'm an estate planning attorney here in San Antonio, Texas. I've been practicing law now for 10 years, which is so crazy to say. It feels like it was yesterday I graduated and You know, was, excuse me, studying for the bar and, but all of a sudden it's 10 years later.

Yeah.

So, um, I've been doing estate planning for, for the majority of my, of my law career. I did 2 years in family law and quickly got outta that and turned to estate planning and I've just fallen in love with it.

What made you decide to go into estate planning? Anything in particular?

Really? I was on my way out of law school. I mean, not outta law school, out of law in general.

Oh.

I mean, I was, I was doing family law. Um, and it just, I mean, it was just so awful.

Stressful.

I was, I really appreciate family law attorneys so that I don't have to do that anymore. It's a really tough area. Um, I was really just burnt out. I was looking for anything that was not, um, family law and I couldn't find any other law work. And so I was looking into financial planning.

Yeah.

Um, and I found an entry-level position for estate planning and kind of learned it, you know, 2 years into being a lawyer and I just absolutely loved it. The best thing about it is family law's a lot of fighting.

Mm-hmm.

And understandably so, people are going through the worst times of their lives, but estate planning is about trying to plan so that we don't have fights, um, in the long run.

Oh, I like that.

Either during life or even after, more importantly, after somebody passes. Got it.

Yeah.

Well, what do you think, I guess, um, like what do you think we need to hear today as, as a working moms community in terms of the estate planning and all that? There's, I know for me there's tons. Yeah. There's, there's tons of info. I know for me, I do not have my shit together even a little bit. So maybe we need to hear about it all. Yeah.

No, I mean, it, it's definitely an area area where people don't know about it and they don't really want to know about it, 'cause it's a hard topic to talk about. We're talking about people dying, people becoming incapacitated, you know, and I just find that people are really kind of scared to approach it. My goal with any kind of an estate planning conversation is really just to educate on the importance of it. It's really more about, And I tell people all the time, it's not for you, it is for your family, it's for your loved ones. Because if something happens to you, you're not gonna be here. You're not gonna be having to deal with the consequences. And so the whole point is it is a gift that you can give somebody. And I hear a lot of people tell me like, I'm too young to have an estate plan, or I don't have anything, so therefore I don't need anything. And the truth of the matter is as soon as somebody turns 18, they need a very, just a basic estate plan. At that point in time, the law considers you an adult. We might not think of an 18-year-old as an adult, but the law says they have their own agency. And so at that point, they need some kind of legal document that says, hey, I trust mom and dad or aunt and uncle or whoever else it might be in their life. The third parties out there, they need something that says, I can speak to you for your, with your child or help make decisions for this child.

Sure.

So what we talk about for basic estate planning for anyone who's 18 and up, the key documents you're going to look at are durable and medical powers of attorney. Those have become very popular for kids going off to school, especially during the pandemic. We had a ton of parents calling saying, hey, my kid's in the hospital and they won't speak to me. Like, how is that possible? I'm their parent, I'm their mom, I'm their dad.

Yeah, I would never think that really.

And the thing is that those people don't know that.

Sure.

They don't know what kind of relationship that child may have with that parent. And so it became very apparent for these people that, hey, we need some kind of legal paperwork. And so durable and medical powers of attorney were really sort of core documents for any 17, 18-year-old child going off to school, and really for anyone, I think, at that point, too, 18 and up.

Well, because you just assume as the parent you would have a right to say and make decisions if you're child is incapacitated, and that doesn't mean you would be the person the courts would pick. Is that—

is the same thing true of like a spouse?

Yes.

Yes. Really?

Yeah, because, you know, we have people that hate their spouses, right? And the spouses can be estranged for years. And so someone coming in and saying, well, I'm the spouse, that party might say, I really don't care. I don't know if your spouse trusts you. I don't know if I am allowed to release this information to you. And so it's just really saying to the world, I'm my own agency and I trust these people to come in and make decisions for me. So durable and medical powers of attorney, they are basically documents that say, if I need help with my financial transactions, legal transactions, or my healthcare decisions, then I trust this person here. If that person is not around, My favorite word in estate planning is contingency. Mm-hmm. Um, if they're not available, then here's my first or second alternate as backups.

Oh, I had thought that same thing. I had gone to just a seminar someone was putting on a weekend. A real estate agent invited me to go listen to, and I thought I knew, I'm like, I thought as my husband, as a wife, mm-hmm, I would have like, if something happened to Roger, I could make decisions for him. Nope.

Nope.

Yeah. That's wild.

His mom or dad or whomever, family member could fight me on stuff. And mm-hmm. Because you, if it's family, I mean, it gets messy.

We really don't have our stuff. Like I said in the beginning, I don't have my stuff together now even more so.

Yeah.

That's terrifying.

Yeah. Um, and then I like to also do a, a HIPAA release for, for clients, whether again, it's a child or an adult, um, you know, I say adult, child, 18 and up. Yeah. Um, but HIPAA is the federal law that protects our healthcare information. Uh, same thing, right? Mm-hmm. If you just called up and said, hey, I want this information on my child, by law they're gonna say, I, can't release this to you, right? If they're under 18, that might be one thing, but once they're an adult, you don't have natural access to anything.

Um, well, even right now, like, I know for my children's pediatrician— I have a 17-year-old and I have a 15-year-old— and for their well baby checkup, they get this questionnaire that I don't have access to. Yeah, like, they, they have to fill it out, and I'm like, what does it say? Like, what? Like, it asks them questions and stuff, and I think it's very bizarre. Like, it's hard as a parent. You're like, wait a minute, I've taken you care— you came out of me. Like, I shouldn't be able to just look at what you're asking you, but it's specific questions for them to answer. Yeah, that the— that a doctor gives to them, and I'm like, what?

Yeah, yeah. So, and, and even having, um, a will, like, for a child who's 18 and up, um, again, wills— I get a lot of, I don't have anything, I don't own anything, I'm not old enough to have a will. Again, as soon as you're 18, you know, you may have a bank account, you may have a car, I mean, those are things and they may not seem like high-value assets, but I promise if you don't have a document afterwards, after you're gone that says, here's who gets my stuff, it's, you're going to be spending tens of, you know, maybe tens of thousands of dollars in court trying to determine who is allowed to receive it, who's going to be in charge. We have a lot of, you know, divorced parents who have, who share children. And unfortunately, if your child predeceases you, most time the parents are going to be the heirs. And so if you've got two people that don't communicate, it can get very ugly very quickly. I mean, I had a case where unfortunately a child had passed and the parents were fighting over the ashes. I mean, oh gosh, people will fight about anything.

Sure.

So just having those kind of key basic documents, durable power of attorney, medical power of attorney, HIPAA releases, and wills, I mean, very basic, documents that anyone 18 and up should have.

And it can be adjusted over time, right?

Absolutely.

So it's something I just started thinking about because Tyler's getting— going into his senior year of, of high school, and he, as of right now, wants to stay close, but he might go abroad. I mean, he might. And I'm like, well, who— like, what if something happens to him? What if you're in a car accident? Or what if, like, and you're in the hospital and they won't let me know what's happening?

Yeah.

So it's something that I've— like, it's coming that time, I need to figure that out.

Yeah.

And it was in a group, me, one of our group chats, people were talking about it because we have a, a friend of ours that had just graduated, and he's not 18 yet, and he's going— he's, he's graduated early, he's 17, and the mom is trying to get information, and the school didn't really want to give her anything. Yeah, like, he's a child. Yeah, I'm paying the bill. They don't care.

They don't care. No, their number one concern is liability. Yeah, they don't want to be sued by anybody. Um, and so they're gonna fall back on, on the law, and the law definitely says, you know, hey, I don't care if you're mom or dad or brother or sister if, if they're 18 and up and you don't have any paperwork that says I can speak to you, I'm not going to.

So can you, because for, for me, like if I'm wanting to have that for my son soon, is that a conversation I should have with him and have with, like, how does that work?

Like, yeah, I mean, legally speaking, if, if the child or the client is coming in, they're 18 and up, they are the client. And so it really is that attorney-client between you and that child. I keep saying child cuz I'm thinking like, yeah, to me they are children, right?

They are.

18. I mean, I'm almost 40 at this point, so I feel like 18-year-olds are babies still.

Yeah.

Um, but, but I, it's your child. So I always say, talk to your child, have a conversation with them. If they then wanna come in and sit down to sign, I always walk them through it and say, are you okay with this? Because maybe a child feels pressured into naming somebody. Mm-hmm. Um, and so it's really important that they are putting the people that they trust on this form. So if you have a great relationship with your child, you know, have that conversation, but at the end of the day, when they come in to sign, it'll be the attorney saying, is this what you want? Yeah.

Is it a time limit on those type of documents? Like, you know, like, hey, this is going to end at 25 or whatever the case is.

No, I mean, for the most part, we say those documents are effective up until you revoke them. Or unfortunately, if you pass away, those powers that you're giving somebody goes away when you pass away. I do tell my clients on the durable power of attorney, which is one for money and finances, it's probably good to update those every 3 to 5 years. Just because if you think about a third party or like a bank, if you come in with a power of attorney that's 15 years old, they're going to be like, I don't know, this is kind of, we call it stale.

Yeah.

Medical, not as much. Medical, you know, you can change them over time, of course, but you don't, That one doesn't need to necessarily be updated that often.

That's interesting that it's sort of like up to the bank's discretion if they—

It's terrible. I, I, I—

If they want to use it or not.

Listen, there's actually, there's a whole statute in the Estates Code, which I won't bore you with because again, I could talk about this stuff all day, but there's a whole section that talks about third parties and them having to rely on these documents. And if they refuse, there are legal consequences that as attorneys we can, we can pursue against them.

Yeah.

But again, they are ultimately concerned with liability. They're, that document in general, it's just presented, people automatically get their backup. Like what is wrong with this person that they themselves cannot come in and withdraw their money or sign this check? So they're gonna be naturally suspicious. So the more current and clean it looks, yeah, sometimes the better.

Got it.

And what are like, What are the verification processes for that kind of thing? I'm so curious. Like, what do they do?

Because I too would wonder like, hey, where is this person?

Like, what do they just ask questions and you just give the information? Like, that just seems so nuts to me.

Yeah, I mean, it's just going to depend on who you're dealing with. And I hate saying that as an attorney. It's like people like, what about this? I'm like, it's all going to depend on that person you're interacting with. Some of these powers of attorney, they're called springing powers of attorney where they don't become effective until you're disabled or incapacitated. And the document usually defines defines how you prove that, usually with a doctor's note or, or some kind of physician writing saying that this person is incapacitated. Um, but a lot of times you, you come in, you present the document, here's my ID, you know, as long as there's a notary stamp and it looks legit, a lot of times they just accept it.

So I work for a bank, we accept it.

Yeah, yeah.

And I mean, there's certain things like I, I, we do a live and well check sometimes, like to make especially on, on VA-type loans. We can't just have people sign on behalf of someone. We'd make sure they're alive, like, if they're signing documents. Um, my biggest concern for, for my family would be, like, if he's incapacitated and that I needed to make a decision for his life.

Sure.

Like, and he's 18 and he's not at home or whatever.

Um, but yeah, when I, when I meet with clients for the first time and we're talking about estate planning, I tell them I kind of break it down into two areas. One is of course the last will and testament. That's what most people jump to when I say estate planning. They're, they're planning for, you know, your passing and who's gonna get my stuff. But for me, just as important are those, are those we call them ancillary documents, which are effective now that take care of you while you're alive. But planning for those emergency situations, the incapacities, the Alzheimer's, the dementia, whatever else it might be. But people tend to neglect those. They say like, Oh, I don't need that. I'm young, I'm healthy.

Until you need it.

Until you need it, right? You could be driving down I-35 and, or heck, on Huebner. Huebner's a dangerous road. I mean, we're having to walk, we're having construction at our firm, so we're walking up and down Huebner right now. I mean, those cars are going 45, 50 miles an hour. Yeah. There's no guarantee. And the sad part is if you don't have a very simple document that says, here's who I trust and I authorize you to speak to. If that situation arises and you don't have that, you're in court and you're going through a guardianship process. And that, I mean, we easily take a $3,500 retainer to $5,000 retainer just to start that process.

Yeah.

And take 6 months, you know? So rather than having to incur those legal court costs and that delay, you know, you prep ahead of time. Yeah. And say, here are these very 3 or 4 simple documents and it just, creates such a nice solution to a problem when it's presented.

Again, it's, it's something you hope to never have to use, but it's, it's something that, again, I, I thought it from, for Roger and I, but I just started thinking, oh my God, Tyler's gonna be 18 soon. Yeah, February. Oh my God, it's coming up so fast. And I'm like, and all that, all those emotions are coming in, and I'm like, of course he lives at home and stuff, but once he becomes 18, he his bank account, his everything, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. And the, and again, even like with a will for a child who's 18 or older, the process, again, I tell clients wills are, they are a roadmap essentially that say, when I die, here's who gets my stuff, here's who's in charge. If you don't have that, again, the state of Texas, I mean really any state, but we're in Texas here, there has to be some kind of way to get a deceased party's name off of an asset, whether it's a bank account or a car.

Mm-hmm.

If you don't have that will to do that for you, then we're again stuck in court going through a very long judicial process to declare who are the natural heirs at law. And again, most times that's gonna be mom and dad for a, for a young person who's not married and doesn't have kids.

Well, we see it all the time in real estate.

Mm-hmm.

I mean, usually it's not obviously for children, but you know, we see it all the time where someone passes and there's a will and I guess a will, and maybe you can explain this.

Mm-hmm.

Because I don't even really know all of this. My title girl helps me with, with this part. But there are wills and then some of them have gone through the probate process.

Mm-hmm.

And that seems better.

Yes.

If that has happened.

Yes.

Maybe you can expand on what that means.

Probate's expensive.

It, it's expensive if you don't have a will. Yeah. Right? So, so probate really is a judicial process that helps people to transfer title on certain types of assets. So real estate is a, it's a huge one. Motor vehicles. But the idea is you hopefully have a will, but that will, you have to present it before a court. That, and that's that judicial process called probate. If you don't have that document, then again, we have to go to the court. We have to tell a judge, hey, here's who I'm alleging are the heirs of this estate. We would like this person to be in charge, but they have to get another attorney involved. They're called an attorney ad litem. They have to investigate to make sure that we're not leaving heirs out. We, if we can't all agree on who's gonna be in charge, then you're forced to do something called a dependent administration. And that is very expensive. I just finished one that was $17,000 by the end. We got through everything and it was an insolvent estate. There's, you know, there's assets, but there's a ton of debt. So if you go through probate though, then you kind of get the court's backing. You can get some kind of legal document that says the will is valid. Here are the heirs, here's what authority you have.

And it's, and people do that while they're still living.

No, it's after you pass.

Oh, I see.

The will.

Yeah. Is there something you can do to let your family not have to go through all of that?

Yeah, there's a, there's a ton of alternatives. The most popular one we see is a living revocable trust.

I see.

Um, essentially you're retitling things to be owned by a trust versus keeping things in your individual name. Um, in the real estate world, there's a lot of awesome new things as well, like a transfer on death deed, Lady Bird deeds. Those are things where we can—

We have right of survivorship on ours.

Oh my gosh. I'm so glad to hear that. Mm-hmm. Because in Texas you can, you can actually take title as right— what, uh, spouses with rights of survivorship.

So it was something that I— we didn't know about. Someone told us about it. And because I've had to go through probate for family members, I've gone through that process. And we have family members who have passed who did not have wills, and the spouse— it can get messy. So, um, someone had mentioned— so for Roger and I, we decided to have the right of survivorship on our title. So that means it's our biggest asset.

Mm-hmm.

So if something happens to either one of us, one, one of us doesn't have to go through probate to prove he's the heir of the house. Like he owns the house and if he needs to sell it, he could sell it. Right.

We need to do that. We need to do all of these things.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean the, and Texas, we're a community property state.

Yeah.

That's a misleading term to a certain extent because I, I can't tell you how many times a, a spouse will come in and they'll say, well, I don't need to go to probate because We've been married for 20, 30 years. It's a community property asset. My name's on the title too. And I have to tell them that doesn't matter in Texas. Essentially what happens is your community estate splits when one spouse dies, it splits into a 50/50 division and a surviving spouse has 50%, they keep theirs, but then deceased spouse's estate owns the other 50%.

So their heir, so.

Yeah.

Especially if you have, mixed families, or, you know, and spouses and other— you might have children from another marriage. And anyways, yeah, it can get kind of complicated. We actually learned on my husband's side that I didn't quite think through. Um, his mom passed many, many years ago, so we did an, um, affidavit of heirship because there was not— there's not a will, because it'd be Roger and his sister who gets 50% of the home. Their stepdad still lives in the home The stepdad has no, like, legal rights, no heirs.

Oh, he has heirs.

Well, he has heirs somewhere.

It'll be complicated.

Yeah, he is.

Um, he might— we don't know if his sister is still living, but he, he still lives in the home and he's there. But I, I don't think he understands, like, he doesn't own the, the whole— he— the whole house. Yeah, he just assumed that when He, he owns 100% of the house, but, and I thought that the Affidavit of Heirship would take care of it. Well, it doesn't. It takes care of 50% of the house. We still have to get him to do something. So when, if, when, when he does pass, then that his 50% can go to somebody. So then if not, it's gonna be very difficult to find an heir somewhere. That we— that's expensive, but we won't be able to do anything with the property.

Yeah, like, it's— you can't get clear title.

Yeah, yeah, happens all the time.

So the affidavit of redemption we did right for the, the 50% that Roger's mom's— when she passed, that's fine. And so they both— my husband and my sister-in-law— 25% each, but we still have 50% of that house that once he goes and he hasn't done anything they're not the natural heirs for him. It has to—

yeah, yeah. Oh, that's tough.

That's like a puzzle.

It is, it is. But I—

someone's like puzzles, right?

I started thinking about it. I was like, oh man, we got to get that taken care of because he doesn't have a will. He doesn't. Yeah.

What does he say about it? Have you ever said anything to him? He's just not bothered.

Yeah. Yeah.

As they usually aren't, I suppose.

He's, he's 80 and he's, he's in his 70s, 80s, and he's, yeah. He's just happy to live. I'm like, Mark, we gotta do something, dude. Like, yeah, I don't care who you put, just put somebody so we can do something.

Because again, you're—

it's—

again, if—

when he's—

he doesn't care, but when he's gone, it's not going to be his problem.

Yeah, right.

It's going to be—

but in his thought, he goes, oh, this goes to you. No, legally it doesn't. It doesn't go— I thought the same thing. I'm like, oh man, we got to do some more work.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what we love, uh, at the firm I work at. My associate and I love to go out and give as many presentations as we can in the community just to give people that education, because you don't know what you don't know, and then by the time you find out, sometimes it's too late.

It's too late.

Yeah.

Um, I went— and I haven't— I went to a seminar just by chance, and I was like, I didn't know any of this. And I, I kid you not, I was at least 50 years younger than anybody else in that room. Yeah, it was everybody who was like ready, like it was time. But I'm like, more people need to know this.

Yeah, they really do.

Yeah, you're never too early to get it done.

Boo, people pass at any age. It's not always just old, but it was everybody. It was so much older and I'm like taking notes.

Yeah. So when someone comes to meet with you, um, maybe someone like me that doesn't have a will or any of these stuff. Yeah. Any alarmingly any of these documents. What, like, what does that look like? What are the conversations that you have? Do you like assess what they have and, and that kind of thing?

Yeah. My, my initial conversation always is trying to get background. On the potential client. I want to know if you're married, if you have children, and what type of assets do you have? Because essentially at the end of the day, we're going to be left with the people and the stuff.

Right.

And so I need to know from a planning point of view, how am I going to make sure that these assets get to the right people and keep as much peace between the survivors? Because again, I can't tell you how many times people say, oh, well, my kids get along and when I die, they'll, They'll work it out. I'm like, okay, if you think so. But I mean, the reason I have a job is because, because that's not true. I mean, so I like to know what they have as far as like, especially for families that have young minor children, we see a lot of times where you might put a minor as a beneficiary on certain accounts, which is a big no-no. Again, how old is your, you said is 15 and 17?

Yeah, 15 and 17, yes.

Okay, so if a 15-year-old is a beneficiary on a life insurance policy, and you and your husband are both gone, they, again, they're under 18. They don't have legal capacity to manage that account. So your options are that money sits there for 5 years or 3 years until they turn 18, which may not be that big of a deal, but sometimes you've got 4-year-olds and 5-year-olds who inherit this stuff. And so they can sit there and wait, or whoever is left that hopefully you've put down who you trust to be the guardian for your child, they have to go in and again, start a court process and become the guardian for that child's estate because now they have assets, um, and the court's involved with that until that child turns 18, which is a big pain and expense.

Yes, I think just having something in place just in case is always, is always good. That's just my nature. But it's scary, like when we sat down to talk to someone and like thinking of when the boys were little, like what would they do, who do they go— that was the, the, the horrible horrible just thinking about.

Yeah.

Um, and I took— when I, I had to get my, my parents, because we come from a split family. My, my father had a family before ours, and then my mom did too. So we were kind of a Brady Bunch type thing.

Sure.

Um, and when I'm— thank— they did something online a little bit. They put something into place, um, that we had something when my dad passed. I fixed it after he passed. My mom passed a year later. I'm very grateful they had something that allowed me to make decisions for them. It took a, it was a long process to go through probate and all that stuff. But I had siblings that did not agree.

Mm-hmm.

And they wanted money now. I'm like, you're not getting money.

Yeah.

You, you, you can wait.

Yeah.

Mom and Dad made me executor for a reason. Yeah.

That's right.

Wait.

That's right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, and going back to the part about like, you know, the people and the things, like, I feel like something that has held us back is like, where would our kids go? You know what I mean?

That is the number one reason why if I have a young couple or parents that they don't get their stuff done, they cannot, they, they don't know what to do with the children, who's gonna take them. Yeah.

I mean, like in our circumstances, my parents are, my parents are older. My dad is 70 now. Um, my husband's parents are, are often unwell. I mean, they're not super, super healthy all the time. And so while both sets of parents are wonderful, I just worry, I think like if we would name one, a couple of things. If we would name one, what happens if they aren't around anymore? I guess you have secondary ones. Is that true?

Yeah. Yeah.

You can imagine it. And then secondly, like, wouldn't one be very upset by that information? Yes. Were they to come to find out? But then I think back to my parents and I think my parents picked like a family friend.

We did.

Maybe to avoid that.

Probably.

We did.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I tell my clients all the time, it's, it's easy for me not being the person in their situation and like kind of getting a, a bird's eye view.

Yeah.

But I tell my clients all the time, I don't care if you're gonna upset people.

Yeah.

Because at the end of the day, it needs to be what is best for you and your family and your children and your stuff. Mm-hmm. Um, it's hard for parents, especially if, if they have, um, older children that they're trying to also name in these documents. Well, I don't want so-and-so to be upset I didn't pick them. I'm like, too bad.

Yeah.

You know, it's you, you, these are real life situations. They are real life scenarios that happen. You've you gotta pick the right person for the job because it is a job at the end of the day.

It is. It was a 2-year job. It's a very long time. But I had that conversation with my parents, and I— when they asked me to do it, I said, I, I or you will tell my siblings, and this is why, right? My siblings were very glad that they didn't have to do any of it.

Yeah, yeah. But they do hold their hand out pretty quickly.

Yes, yes.

So, and it was, it was the, the sisters who are a little estranged that we had not seen. They're on my dad— my half-sisters on my dad's side. And, um, you—

the—

I was very grateful that the 5 of us got along and understood for the most part and kind of went along, and they trusted me. But that doesn't happen. I have friends who do, who don't. They're still for years fighting that because it wasn't in the will. I have a good friend of ours that she, she lived— the whole family lived on a block together. They all owned a couple of houses and rentals or whatever. And the dad was on all the properties. Uh, so she was always taught, like, they paid the mortgage, but the dad said, this is your home, like, this is your home. You lived across the street. He helped the sister buy the house down the street and whatever. Well, when he passed, the sister said, oh, that's a third of mine. Even though it— they, they all knew dad wanted that sister to have that home, it wasn't in her name. And she had to, in order to own the home after he passed, had to give her a third of that property where she even— and she just happened to be on title, and they did right for her property, but this is the property she lived in was not done right.

Yeah, and I bet that tore that family up.

Oh yeah, people look like don't talk to their siblings after, after a parent passes. Um, we also see a lot of— unfortunately, we see a lot of neglect, um, with an elderly parent and you've got the children fighting over, you know, who's going to be in charge of mom or dad. We've been to court several times because the power of attorney, you know, has abused the power. They've gone in and they've taken, you know, a couple hundred thousand dollars from mom or dad and put it into an account with their name on it, right? And we have to sue them essentially and take them to court. And, but it's, people get greedy pretty quickly.

It, that changes you, you know, when there's not an authority figure in the picture anymore, like mom or dad. It changes people. And, um, see, and we see— I see it in, in real— in, in financing when you have someone, oh, mom and dad are helping us buy a house, and I haven't talked to mom or dad. Like, and mom or dad are elderly, you know, and everything's electronic now. So it's like, I, I have to ask a lot of questions and people get kind of frustrated, but I'm like, I want to make sure that they're really helping you.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, the multi-million dollar house and you're saying dad and mom and dad are buying it for you? Like, I we gotta have that conversation. So, right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Well, I would really encourage, um, any, any parent out there who is being held back by saying, I don't know where my kids are gonna go. I always say, then, then we don't need to make that decision now, but let's get everything else taken care of.

Okay. So it's not like all or nothing.

No, no.

Okay.

I mean, you can, you can get your wills done, you can get the other powers of attorney done. Because I, the worst thing that could happen is something happens to one or both of you and you didn't do the process because we don't know who's gonna take care of the kids. Well, now we don't have anyone to take care of the kids, but nothing else is in place.

Right.

And so it pursue everything else, get that stuff done, plan ahead. And then as you're going through that process, you know, we can figure out the, the child situation. Yeah.

Maybe going through that process provides some clarity as well.

Mm-hmm.

Have you found that?

Oh yeah, absolutely. Because we'll start talking about who's gonna be the caretaker for your child. And they may say, oh, my sister, my brother. And then I'm like, well, how are they with money? Oh, they're terrible with money. Yeah. And I'm like, oh, then guess what? They're not gonna be a trustee for your child's, your child's trust. Even though you might think if they're gonna be taking care of the child, they would need to take care of the money too. Mm-hmm. So as you start kind of going through the scenarios, people start playing out some of these situations. Yeah. And realizing who's the right person.

We did that. We had someone who, when we named who would have the boys like a certain person would— they'd be with, but we found someone that might be better financially, handle the funds for them, would be a better person. And then we also had someone who would like make medical decisions on behalf of Roger and I. That was none of those people.

Yeah.

That we felt, you know, would make good decisions for us and, and then help counsel the people. I, I felt my sisters would be too emotional, like, to make logical decisions when it comes to end-of-life type stuff.

Yeah.

Yes.

Yeah. I always use my mom as an example for that kind of situation because she's not on my medical powers of attorney anywhere because she's emotional and I wouldn't want to put her through that decision-making. But I have her listed on my HIPAA release document, which means if I'm in the hospital, she can call, pick up the phone, get updates on my healthcare. But I'm not, I don't want to put that burden on her to make any kind of decisions for me. Medically speaking.

You might realize that the people that you thought might get their feelings hurt on some things might really have the relief that they don't have to make those decisions.

Oh, I know. I, when I did my, my parents' estate plan and my, my oldest sister was a little bit offended. She was like, why am I last on everything? I'm like, you be grateful. Like this, you don't want these responsibilities and you don't have to make that decision. I mean, so it's, I tell people it's a job and it's, it's a thankless job for sure. I can't, again, I can't tell you how many times I have a child who comes in who's been taking care of maybe an elderly parent that says, well, I, I've been taking care of mom and dad for the last, you know, 10 years. I, I should get more of the estate.

Yes.

And I'm like, you know what? You shouldn't. You're, that's your parent. They took care of you while you were growing up and now it's your turn to take care of them. Yes. But you know, it's, uh, it, you see all sorts of things.

Yes.

Um, in this field.

Well, we had, I told you recently, um, we had a friend of ours refer someone to me and said, hey, they're looking to buy their mom's house, blah, blah, blah. So we were kind of talking about it. And she— it was a daughter living in her parents', uh, her mother's home, um, and she wanted to now be in her name, not her mom's name. So I was trying to explain to her, well, you can— there's ways of doing it, but like financially you can't buy the home from your mom because your mom's not moving out. Like, what's going on? Yeah, she was trying to protect that house. If mom passes, then it would be hers. Well, it doesn't work that way. Yeah, just because you've been living there doesn't mean it belongs to you. Yeah. Yeah.

People tend to think that though.

Yeah. That they can acquire it. So she, I'm like, we can, we can keep mom on title and add you to title and we can do a refinance and you can take over the mortgage or however you wanna do that. But at the end of the day, you still have to go through the estate part of this of when mom passes.

Right. Yeah.

Because you have, there's other heirs other than that person.

Yeah.

So, well, you're stressed out now.

Yes.

I think she's like, oh my God. It's so funny. I usually, when I go do presentations, I'm like, I'm gonna scare everybody into getting their estate plan done. Yeah.

Yes. And it, and you have, and you have, but really quickly, what kinds of questions would you recommend people ask when they're looking for an estate planning attorney?

Good question.

That is a good question.

Yeah.

They should just come look for me. Well, of course, of course.

We'd love for them to come look for you.

You know, I, I sometimes I will have clients who come to me who have gone to a previous estate planning attorney and they're like, they're so appreciative of me breaking it down and explaining it to them.

Yeah.

Because they were like, well, the last one I had just said, this is what you need and, you know, here you go.

Sign here.

Yep. I, I would want you to have an attorney that is asking not just the upfront questions, but the follow-through questions. Like, what if this happens? What if that happens? That to a certain point, you kind of have to rein some clients in. Mm-hmm. Because they can easily go down a rabbit hole.

Yes. That is me. But I am spiraling right now.

Yeah. But you know, I, I, I want, I would want an attorney to ask ask about, you know, the family dynamics, what kind of assets do you have? Do we need to look at asset protection? Do we need to, you know, find ways to avoid probate? And just, I mean, I would want someone to be very thorough. I don't want to just say, give me a list of your, of your stuff and your powers of attorney, I'll draft it, you come sign. Yeah. And some attorneys do that. We tend to find that on people that say that they practice estate planning or probate wills, but they really They really don't.

Yeah.

But yeah, having those hard conversations. Another fun hard conversation to have is talking about spouses. If one dies, what's, you know, well, what if they go off and get remarried and they move the assets, right, to a different spouse, a new spouse, and not to the kids? So an attorney that's willing to kind of make you uncomfortable to a certain extent because we see all of that.

Yeah.

And so my husband can't get remarried. He has to become a priest.

I already told him.

Yeah. I'm gonna haunt him.

Yeah. I'm just kidding. I, I've, uh, I've laid out rules for my husband too. Like you, you can get, you don't have to get remarried, but you can't use my money for like the first 5 years on a new lady or anything like that.

So, but, oh my gosh, how funny. Yeah. My best friend and I have talked about it in the past, which is like so morbid, but we always say like we would just never get remarried. Yeah. Cuz like how awful would it be to have to like start all over? Yeah. Like, you know, I'm not at all interested in that.

Yeah.

I, I say the same thing too. I'm like, we're like, We're just gonna live on land and like have animals.

Yeah.

Oh my gosh. I'll move in with you. That's like, that's my, that's my, that's my dream too. I mean, I've got a lot of girlfriends where it's like, we just wouldn't get remarried. We would just move into a house together.

Yeah, of course.

Yeah.

Cause like, I'm not gonna like have to like train a whole new person. Yeah.

You know, like it's too hard and I don't wanna, I don't wanna share my stuff like with anybody else. Yeah. It's like, it's like, you know, it just gets, it gets so messy so quickly and yeah. Like just live together and be happy and, you know, keep things separate.

But that's interesting that, I mean, you know, even just posing that question, what would happen? Like, I think I would be offended if I worked all of these years and my kids didn't get that stuff. Mm-hmm. You know?

And that's, it gets, it gets where I, I think once we sat down, I, I need to update. I've done talk. I'm like, oh, I gotta update stuff now. Um, when we, it was so hard to go and do it.

Yeah.

It was the hardest thing. I, I, I hated it. I hated it so much. But once it's done, I can't tell you what a relief it is. Yeah.

Yeah.

You know, like I, I had something to play. Now that the kids are, uh, older, I can obviously change our will a little bit. And it wasn't, it wasn't horribly expensive. It wasn't. And I didn't— the, the metal— I did not know I could not make decisions for Roger if something happened to him.

Yeah.

And that's what kind of made us kind of start thinking about it. He had an episode. I was in our— I was in my very early 30s. I just had my youngest son, and Roger had an episode at work. I thought he had a stroke. Like, he was in the hospital for a week, and we didn't know what was happening. And I'm like, oh my God, I'm 31, and I'm gonna a single mom, like what's happening? And it really made us think about like what happens if something happens to him? Like what do we do?

Yeah, nothing is guaranteed unfortunately. And well, there are certain things that are guaranteed. They say death and taxes, right? Yeah. But everyone just is like, well, I'm too young, I don't need it. Like, eh, you know? Unfortunately we see all manner of ages, you know, pass or become incapacitated.

Yeah. Well, this has scared the heck out of me.

Sorry.

But it's good. I mean, I have to like, I'm 37 years old, I have to be an adult now.

It's time.

Yeah.

And one thing we didn't really, I didn't really touch on, but just on the importance of these documents, especially for young families who may have a child like with special needs.

Sure.

We were talking about that earlier. These parents who have a child that may need their legal assistance, right? To help manage their property and their funds, make those types of decisions for them past 18. If your child has enough capacity to execute those documents, it's a really great way to avoid them having to obtain a guardianship. Mm-hmm. Over their child. Sometimes an individual has a very severe disability or incapacity where it, the guardianship is the only choice. Um, but again, it's a legal process. It's expensive, it's time-consuming. And I see a lot of, you know, young parents who, or parents who have young children who they have to get guardianship over their, over their child. Yeah. And so if we're able to get, even, even if like a child comes to me and they may be, Maybe not 100%. I mean, I have a conversation with them and I'll ask them questions like I would any other person. I'm like, hey, if you need to help with your medical decisions, you know, who would you trust? I would trust mom, I trust dad. So just even being able to put that down for a child with special needs, it can save the parents a lot of money and stress as that child goes into adulthood. Yeah, that's a good point.

Do these documents get, store, like we have ours in a binder.

Yeah.

But like how do pe— people know?

Is there like a database or something? Yeah.

Like, you know, that makes sense.

Yeah.

There's actually a lot of new, um, uh, programs out there, like software programs where you can upload those documents. Mm-hmm. I am supposed to be a millennial, but I'm really bad with technology. So I, I don't know any of those. Yeah. I'm old school. I have my binder. My parents have a binder, but I do let certain people know, like, this is where you can find it. Um, I tell people all the time, if you're going into the hospital, bring those documents, make a copy of it. Um, so giving it to the right people, providing copies is a great way to ensure people know about it at least.

Because I think, um, the only— like, my parents, when, when they passed, I didn't know where to find stuff. Like, there's statements and stuff, and I'm like, well, I know they have something, where is it? And once when my dad passed, then I was able to get things kind of together. My mom let me handle some of the paperwork. So when she passed, then I had everything then, but it took me a while to put it all together and understand. And I've been asked on my husband's side, um, he has an aunt and, and two aunts that have never married, don't have children, and asked if I would be the executor. And I'm like, hey, you guys got to put it where I can find it. Yeah, because they have a very large home with a lot of— they like to shop a lot of stuff. And I'm like, where would I look? I don't even know, like how to know if what they have, they just asked, hey, would you do this? Yeah. Kind of thing. So I didn't know if there was like, is there like a database that they can—

There, there is. I, I, I'm not familiar with them.

Yeah.

I'm not, 'cause I don't, I don't use them, but I've had other people tell me, oh, you know, there's this program that you can use.

Mm-hmm.

I do have a lot of clients who might have a safety deposit box. Yes. And they'll stick that in there. And I always have to remind them, make sure whoever your executor is or who's next in line also has access to that safety deposit box. Because if you're gone—

yeah, that's what my dad has.

Yeah, but if they're gone and you're not on the account, how do you get to it?

The bank won't let you in.

You gotta go to court and get a court order.

Yeah, I had a friend of ours said that all her mom's stuff was in a— they thought it wasn't there and it happened not to be, but a safety deposit box thingy, and nobody had access. It took them years— I don't know, years, but a very long time to get it. And unfortunately, what they thought was in there was not.

Oh no.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, there's actually I think again in the Estates Code, which again, I won't bore you with it, but there is something in there that says like to a certain extent, if there's a safety deposit box that a bank official potentially can go in there, look in the box to see if there's like a will.

Mm-hmm.

And then if there is, then it, then the person can go to court and try to get an order for it.

But yeah, at least then you would have the knowledge of what was inside versus gambling. Oh, interesting. Oh my gosh.

Oh, there's all sorts of fun things with this stuff.

Yeah.

And you, you don't know what, you don't know what you go through until you, you go through it.

Mm-hmm.

Yeah. It is what it is.

Yeah, so being prepared is a good thing, ma'am, I guess.

Yeah, that's what they say. Yeah, it's something where you get it done, and if you never need it, awesome. But if you need it and you don't have it, you know, you're kind of, you're kind of stuck with very limited options.

Well, you have kids, you have a, you have some assets and stuff, so eventually someone's going to—

yeah, I think in my mind I was always just like, uh, we don't really have anything to want, so yeah, what are we gonna do, you know?

Yeah, even if No one wants it. We're still going to have to figure out where it goes, right? Yeah. Yeah.

That's a good point.

Yeah. Well, this has been super informative.

We usually, um, at the end ask our guests to share with the listeners how people can get ahold of you for your services.

Sure. Yeah. Um, I'm actually, I work at Rosenblatt Law Firm. It's, um, on Heebner Road. The best way to contact me is either by phone or email. The phone number for the firm is 210-562-2900. Um, or by email, which will be my first name, Katherine, C-A-T-H-E-R-I-N-E, @rosenblattlawfirm.com. Perfect.

We'll put that in the show notes. Yeah. So people can click around and get ahold of you. And thank you so much for being here.

Yeah. Thank you for inviting me again. I, I hope I didn't bore you too much.

Oh no, no. It's, it's interesting stuff that we need to know about.

So people get into that 18-year-old stage, so I'm like, oh, I gotta do this again.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, thank you so much for having me. I really appreciate it.

Absolutely. Of course. And I'm gonna also thank our listeners for tuning into this week's episode, and we will catch you guys next week. Time.

See you guys next week.

Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the Working Moms of San Antonio podcast. We hope you loved today's chat and found a little inspiration to take with you into your week. If you have a podcast topic suggestion or a question you'd love for us to cover, definitely send us an email at hello@workingmomsofsanantonio.com. We'd love to hear from you. And until next time, see you in the community.