Should You Use An E-Collar With A Reactive Dog? | LIVE Q&A

Hello everyone. Sorry, I was a little late because my laptop is broken, so I had to borrow someone else's and then they had to download Chrome and then the mic wouldn't work and then the camera wouldn't work. But somehow, by some miracle, I'm here and I'm only 1 minute late, so that's fun. Um, Tuesday, innit? All right guys, welcome. Thanks for joining on for those of you that are here. Um, let's have another good one tonight. We've had some really, really nice lives recently, loads of really interesting questions coming in, and it's really nice as always to chat with everybody that's here. So I'll start how I always start. Let me know in the chat box there who you are. Let me know where you are so I don't feel like I'm just sat here talking to a camera in an empty room on my own. Um, talk to me about how nice my new background is. I don't know why everything is like reversed on this camera and it really wigs me out. Um, oh no, there's loads of pop-ups on this computer. Right, first of all, can everyone in the chat, if anyone is there, just actually let me know? Just give me like a yes in the chat if you can actually hear anything that I'm saying. Because full disclosure, I set this up on my own and I'm not entirely sure I know how to do that. So I think you can hear me, but you could just be sat there staring at me. Great. Thanks. Okay. Well, since one person wants to talk to me, um, let me know who else is here, if anyone's here. Don't make me feel like I'm sat here talking to myself. It's dead sad. Um, ah, hi Helena! Did you see that you made it to our Instagram today? Special feature for Aussie on the Beach. Um, let me know who else is here. Talk to me about your dogs. Talk to me about what's going on. If you want some nice Free advice. That's what I'm here for, and I will do my very best to get through everyone in the hour that we're here today. I feel like I should maybe sit up more straight. I'm just like a sloth, aren't I? It's end of the day. Um, yeah, I'll do my best to get through all of your questions like I always do. There were loads of last-minute ones last week, um, so we did run a little bit over. But I am always worried that YouTube will just cut me off. So if you have questions and you want to get them answered, and maybe you don't want to sit here for the whole hour and listen to me waffle on to everyone else, pop them in the chat and you'll get yours answered first. If you're new here and you've tuned in and thought, who's this strange woman talking to me through a screen? I am Kelly. This live is about dog training. Funny that, isn't it? Because we're a dog training business. We focus predominantly on reactivity, so we specialize in reactive dogs, much like our— I wanted to say sister, but they're not our sister company. Much like the original, the OG company YCA, we are the sister company of them. Jacob would get livid at me for saying that they're a sister company of us. Um, they also focus and specialize on reactivity. We do the same down here, so we help reactive dogs week in, week out. Those of you that have walks that are progressively shitter, coming home not feeling great, dogs that are getting more and more reactive, your life's becoming smaller, your dog's life is becoming smaller. It's not really the picture that you had when you first got your dog. Um, maybe you've burned through a couple of things first. Usually we aren't people's first stop in their dog training journey. So those are the kinds of people that we work with every day. Those are the kinds of dogs we work with every day. And if you are one of those people and you are struggling, then you've landed in the right place. And if you have questions about your dog's behavior, your dog's reactivity, if there's things that you want to know, then this is a nice place to get a little bit of free advice because everybody loves free things. Um, so if you have questions, then ask them because I'm here to help and I'm here to answer them. So pop them in the chat, doesn't matter how long it is. Um, if you can give me a bit of context about what's been going on, how long it's been going for, What kind of dog you have. Talk to me about where you're living, um, whereabouts in the world are you, because shocker to me, but people from all the world, all over the world, have watched these before, which I always find really fun. Um, get those questions going in the chat and I'll do my best to work my way through them before we get to the end of this hour together tonight. Um, I will answer this one first because it's the first one that came in, and then I will get to some Some questions that we've been asked on our Instagram for this evening. Uh, I understand the e-collar conditioning should be for a week, but then what? Once your dog understands pressure and release, then we can start working to condition your e-collar. Condition— Kirky hates that word. We're using the e-collar You can teach— you can use an e-collar to teach literally anything because at the end of the day, once the dog understands pressure and release, it is just another form of pressure. So you can use it to teach any behavior, but we predominantly use them to teach recall. So when you say e-collar conditioning, that's what we mostly use e-collars for. to teach your dog a rock-solid recall so that you know no matter what, no matter what the distraction, no matter the location, your dog will come back to you when they are called. In terms of like what happens after they have understood what that sensation means and that there is consequence for ignoring recall Then you're out there in the world. The dog can be off lead. That's the whole point. They can get out, they can go be a dog, they can explore, they can be in any environment because you know your dog understands that sensation. When they feel it, it means come back to me. Um, so you're able to communicate with your dog At distance should you need to. Our goal is to make your recall super sharp so the dog understands eventually that when I feel that pressure, it means go back. Yes, but also I can avoid that pressure by being quicker and go back and get paid, and then they'll let me go off again. So at that point, it becomes double reinforcing to the dog, and that's where you get that super snappy recall because they're like, aha, I I beat the thing and I get paid. Amazing. That's where you start to see really lovely sharp recall off of literally anything. So once you leave after you have done your boot camp, if you choose to work with us, then that's what happens. Your dog is free to go out and be a dog. The point of everything that we do here Is to give dogs the most freedom we can possibly give them, to just go out there and live life and be a dog at liberty, making choices. You're not micromanaging them. You can take them anywhere and know they understand what they should and shouldn't be doing. And when you come back, when you call them, they come back. That's the whole point. Also, I've never seen your name before, 2GSD1Love. I'm a waffler. I tend to go off on tangents, so you can put in the, uh, group chat just to shut up if you feel like I've taken it a step too far and I've just talked too much. I do love talking. Okay, let me go to the questions that got asked on our Instagram. So if you don't follow us on Instagram and you do come here regularly, or if you don't get to ask your question tonight and you want your questions answered, every Tuesday morning on Instagram we'll put up a story on our lives. That's where you can ask your questions and you'll get first dibs on getting yours answered. So I really do recommend having a flick through those. Also, we post really cute fun stories, so it's Always worth having a look at. Let's see. All right, first question, have you actually felt an e-collar? Yes, I have. Um, we— anyone that comes to work with us, we will always make sure that you have felt the sensation of an e-collar before you put it on your dog. If you're not comfortable feeling that sensation on yourself, you shouldn't be using it on your dog. Our goal when we train people is that people know exactly how that piece of equipment works, but also that it is not the piece of equipment itself that is the answer to your problems. Equipment works like a catalyst in training, can get you where you want to, to be. It helps to take your training over the line, but it's not the training itself. You still have to teach the dog something. And any piece of equipment that you should— that you want to use on your dog, you should be comfortable putting on yourself first and understanding what it feels like and how to utilize it properly in training. So yes, I have actually felt an e-collar. Um, I— the thing about the feeling of e-collars that we always say to people every week is that You'll see a lot of stuff online where people will say, oh, I conditioned this dog to an e-collar and we only used a level 5. It just doesn't mean anything. That means that that was right for that specific dog. The levels themselves don't carry any weight in terms of like how little or how much Or how high you go. That's just where that specific dog felt it. So for me, I can feel the e-collars in which we use at a level 7. A lot of people that came to— that are at boot camp this week didn't say they felt it until it got to like 15, 16. But that doesn't mean that I'm weaker than them or that I'm easier to train than they are. It just means that they felt it at that level and that was what was right for them. So don't buy into all the nonsense that you see online where people are like, you shouldn't— should only need to use this much or whatever. Yes, we're always looking to use minimal effective dose, but it should be the minimal effective dose that is correct for that specific dog. So just because one dog works at a level 12 and one dog works One dog's level is 30. It means nothing. What actually matters is that dog's understanding of that pressure. Again, waffling, waffling away. Isn't a long line safer than an e-collar? A long line means that it's just your safety net, right? Because you know you can always get your dog back once you have correctly taught your dog what the pressure of an e-collar means. It is, I guess, for want of like a better way of describing it, an invisible long line because your dog knows how to yield to the pressure and come back. You know that they can go to any distance and you can call them back. Within reason because of the range of an e-collar, obviously. But the thing about long lines and flexi leads is they get— they give your dog some freedom out in front of you, but they're still at the end of a 6-foot lead. Most dogs will roam a lot further than that in front of you. And anyone that's ever used a long line or a flexi lead, what happens then when you're in the woods and the dog wants to go and venture off into the bracken and move in the trees and go follow that scent through like brush or whatever. Pain in the ass because that lead is getting tangled up, or you can't let them go in there because you don't want to tangle the lead, or you can't follow them in there. Or like, I'll use Helena as an example. Um, Helena's dog Ozzy loves to swim. When Helena had Ozzy on a long line, she used to have God love her, get in the sea every day with that dog because she couldn't have him off of a lead because she couldn't trust him that he would come back when she called him. So he had to stay on a long line. So that meant if she wanted him to swim, she was getting in with him, which is miserable in the winter in the UK. Um, so glad I don't have to do that now. It's still cold even in the summer. The sea here is still cold. Now Helena knows that when she calls Ozzy, she doesn't really use her e-collar anyway because he has such sharp recall. Because he knows when you call me, I come back, I get paid, you let me go again. Great. You'll never compare the freedom that you can get to from a long line to that that you can get your dog on an e-collar. Um, can my dog Can my reactive dog ever be safely off lead? Yes. One of the things that we really focus on here is getting dogs off lead safely and reliably as quickly as we possibly can. And the reason that we do that is because there's a lot of pent-up tension from a dog that has to live on the end of either a 1 or a 2-meter lead that you can only walk around the block, or a dog that's forever on a long line and then getting reeled, reeled in all the time. They're looking for an outlet or somewhere to put that energy, and getting them off lead and out into the environment can drain a lot of that energy away. Often reactivity, it comes from somewhere, but it very, very quickly becomes a self-reinforcing hobby to the dog. They get a bit of a payout when they're gobbing off other dogs, when they're gobbing off other people. So then, but then as a result of doing that, then they're back on the lead. So then they can't move their bodies, they can't get out into the environment, they don't have any way to dispel that energy. So then that hobby becomes their favorite hobby. And then you'll find that it's a dog that's going as soon as you leave the house, scanning the environment straight away. What can I gob off at next? Because it's the only thing that they get joy from. If we can get dogs off lead safely, it's a much easier dog to work with because I'm able to give them that opportunity to drain that tank, that physical need to move. And then they're in a lot better learning mindset because they don't have all this pent-up energy. That's a dog that I'm able to teach a lot easier than one that's living on the end of a lead. They've got no way to dispel energy and they're like, oh, I know I like the thing, but like, I need to do the thing. Um, it's gonna take a lot longer to get there. So that's the reason why we don't really see getting dogs off lead as like A lovely fluffy extra that comes at the end of training. It's something that we focus on from day one, and like a number one priority, not just a nice bonus at the end if the dog can make it to a certain point. Um, do do do do. Will my dog become a robot if I use one? No. So I think that's a problem that people often have with tools, especially e-collars, is they think that using any kind of aversive on the dog is synonymous with retribution. It's do what I say or else, and then the dog is constantly living in fear of being told off or being like the thing happening. But a dog that lives that way is a dog that hasn't properly understood pressure and how to relieve it. Because once a dog understands that, then you're able to give them freedom, and you're not saying to them— you're not just constantly using pressure on them and them not really understanding why it happened, how to turn it off. that is a dog that kind of just becomes a robot because they're constantly like, oh, what next? What do you want me to do this? You want me to do that? It's a dog that's living in a gray area. And it also kind of depends like what you're using your e-collar for. Like, remember at the beginning I said that you can use an e-collar to teach anything because at the end of the day it's just another form of pressure, like maybe you would use your lead or your spatial pressure, whatever. Um, I've had a brain fog and I can't remember where I was going with that, but I was really on a roll with it, so let's hope it comes back. Um, yeah, it depends what you're teaching, because if you're using it to teach obedience, then that is a lot of micromanaging. That is a robotic dog that can't live outside of obedience. They don't know how to make choice. They don't have agency to make choice, and they're living in a gray area where they don't really understand what is and what isn't allowed, that's a dog that can only cope under guidance from you. And that's where I think people get this robot dog idea from most often, is that I use the pressure of an e-collar to get my dog to walk in this perfect heel staring at me as they walk down the road, or go into this perfect down, or hold a sit at 1,000 meters away from me no matter the distraction. Fine, that's all cool, but like at liberty, would your dog still choose to go and chase another dog or gob off at a person? They don't have agency. That's a dog that can only live under instruction, and that's not what we do here. We don't teach obedience. Like, we don't— apart from teaching a dog to come back when called, we don't really teach them a lot. We help you to build a communication system where you're able to tell dogs in a way that they can actually understand and learn from. That was right, I like that, do that more. That was wrong, don't do that again. So there's really only like a handful of things in life that a dog can't do, right? Like you can't chase kids and other dogs. You can't put teeth on people and dogs. You can't chase livestock. And what else? Can't gob off at people and dogs. Maybe there'll be some more other things that would like more specific to you, but I think those are probably the main ones. Isn't it way easier to just teach a dog in a way they understand, hey, those 4 things? Can't do those. Go pick something else. Rather than trying to teach them 101 different other behaviors to navigate you through every single other possible situation that could ever happen in life, isn't it easier to just teach them, hey, don't do those things, and then I can just trust you to go and do whatever else? Because there's like hundreds of other things a dog could do. You don't need to teach them to do it. You can pay into it when you like it for sure and make it more likely to happen again in the future, but like, do whatever you want as long as you're not doing those things. Like, most people don't want that like obedient robot dog. They just want a dog that can go be a dog, and a dog can go and do that when they understand you can do this, you can't do that. What are the advantages of using an e-collar over positive reinforcement in teaching recall? The problem with only using positive reinforcement when you're teaching recall is that dogs are living, breathing creatures. One day, no matter what you have in your hand— you could have a piece of sirloin steak or like the finest cheese your dog has ever seen, a wheel of it, waving it around at the other end of the field— one day there will be something in the environment, no matter how good your dog is at recall, where that thing will be more reinforcing for your dog to keep going towards rather than coming back to you for whatever it is that you're willing to offer in terms of positive reinforcement. Maybe you'll only experience that once or twice in your life, but for me, I can't afford for that once or twice in my dog's life to be Chasing a rabbit or a squirrel across the road and getting hit by a car, going into a farmer's field and chasing livestock, getting shot by a farmer, running up to the wrong dog and getting in a fight, getting really injured, chasing a child and potentially getting put down because of it. I know those are all like super extreme examples, but They're the thing— they are things that do happen every day. And you can, you can get your training really far with positive reinforcement, and it's like 80-90% of what we do as balanced trainers. But you will reach a ceiling with how far you can take it with positive reinforcement only. We want to push our positive reinforcement and what we have to offer as far as we can possibly get it. So we want to become like an 8 out of 10, 9 out of 10 to our dogs. But we're using an e-collar via the means of negative reinforcement that helps us to bridge that gap in disparity where the thing that the dog is going towards— in my example, let's say it's a rabbit— that rabbit to them is A 10 out of 10 thing. I'm an 8 out of 10. My e-collar, via the means of negative reinforcements, helped me to bridge that gap, take me from an 8 to an 11. So I know my dog will come back to me. And I hope that answered your question, Harrison. Um, would it be a good use of the e-collar to use it to break up a fight between dogs, or would that make matters worse? Very careful doing that if your dog has never felt the sensation around another dog before. Ideally, you don't want to be letting your dog get into a fight in the first place. You want to have recall good enough to get your dog away from another dog if they're heading towards the wrong dog, or any dog that you do not want them to interact with. But that situation would be more a case of having a really, really well-charged punishment marker so you're able to capture the moment for the dog, the exact moment that they got it wrong before the fight becomes a lot, and tell them, nah, that was wrong. Now we need to have a conversation about what it was that happened there. If your dog is already on another dog, yes, I would not be using any form of aversive stim in that situation. It would be a case of stepping in and breaking up the fight. Obviously, when you're breaking up dog fights, just be mindful of getting hands and things in there. Don't be a hero, especially if it's not your dog. Um, and the, the best way to get them off if they won't get off on a verbal cue is unfortunately to use pressure around the neck to choke the dog off. But when you're doing that, be prepared that that dog may then come back at you. So like I said, don't be a hero. And yes, John, in answer to your question, I would not be using any kind of aversive sensation or stim. in that situation if your dog is in a fight. Um, I have a high drive Belgian Malinois who has been reactive since I had him, as have his siblings. I did try e-collar but he ate it. Did you leave it out or did he eat it when it was on him? And also, that is a very expensive thing to have eaten. Um, before he ate it, what were you using your e-collar for? Um, I think the problem that potentially you will have faced there is the misconception that a lot of people have about what e-collar is used for. If you are using any form of pressure When you're working with a reactive dog to counteract that reaction and try and stop it from happening again in the future, i.e., punishment. Likely, if you're using pressure on its own, then that pressure is just an interrupter. It may be enough to snap your dog out of doing it in the moment. But on its own, it's just an interrupter. Given the same situation again, if your dog is still reactive, then it wasn't punishment because it didn't stop likelihood, intensity, or frequency of a behavior. You're just snapping them out of it in the moment and using an interrupter. I think that's the big problem that people have when they're using tools, or especially they're using e-collars. They think that punishment is retribution. It's blasting the dog on high levels around a reaction or during a reaction. That's not what you should be using it for. You should be using a well-charged punishment marker, which you should have charged outside of whatever it is that your dog is reactive to. Um, potentially you would use your e-collar as the interrupter, but not on its own. I hope that answers your question. He took the collar off himself. How did he do that? That dog got thumbs? That is a really very expensive mistake. What kind of e-collar were you using? Would you condition your no the same with e-collar as you would with slip or prong? Do you mean— I'm really sorry, I can't pronounce your name. Would you condition your no with the— if you're wanting to use your e-collar, I think this is what you mean. If you mean Chythrone, great. Chythrone, your no, is that going to be your punishment marker and you're wanting to use either one of those things as pressure as your interrupter? Let me know and I will answer you. He barked continuously every time he saw the controller. He is a malle. Uh, yes, no is the punishment marker. If you want to use— what do you currently use as your interrupter? Do you use your slip or do you use your prong, or do you not? Have you not done it yet? Um, when your dog barks continuously, use your prong as your interrupter. If you want to use Your e-collar, you could, but I would say that's less— it depends on the situation. I haven't seen what your dog is like. I haven't seen what your punishment marker is like, but dependent on the dog, I'm never super, super quick to jump to an e-collar. In terms of like conditioning a punishment marker, because I prefer my dogs to know, because I'm utilizing and leveraging the social system, that the punishment is coming from me because I am disappointed in what just happened. So I, for most dogs, wouldn't choose to use an e-collar as an interrupter. But if you I don't know your dog, um, so I would need a bit more context. But in a very short answer to your question, because I never give short answers apparently, um, I would— He's 9 months old Corso, in which I personally never punish with the e-collar. I'm just curious on how it would be conditioned. Um, so we The way in which we teach punishment, you won't find it online. There is a reason for that, because timing is really key, especially when you're dealing with a— um, I just love sponging YCA wisdom where I can. No worries. I would say to you, if you were a trainer yourself, got a course for that, mate. It's a very good one. Um, Kirky runs it. It's a dog trainer development program, and on that program you would learn exactly how we teach punishment. The reason why we don't shout about it online is because timing is very, very important. The intensity of your cues, the way you talk to your dog, the, the amount you move— like, every single piece of the puzzle has to be correct. And we Don't want people going out and winging it on their own, trying to hash it out, especially if you're doing it with reactivity, or if you've— especially, especially if you've ever had a dog that's come back up the lead at you before. Um, it's a one-way ticket to getting bitten, which we never want to happen. So, um, my recommendation to you would be to go on Kirky's course because you'll learn it there and then you'll be able to farm it out to your clients and you will have that wisdom. Timing is the hardest part to explain to clients in my opinion, so I truly understand your logic, but it's not online. Yeah. Um, I think the biggest thing that I learned when I started working with YCA is not to rob your clients of the opportunity to learn by taking the lead off of them and showing them that their dog is capable of doing it with you. Sometimes it can be beneficial because the client is able to see that their dog is able to do the thing and capable of doing the thing, but long term it doesn't really help because they won't have the muscle memory there. They've never navigated things before. Um, you'd be far better off looking into your training and having a toolbox there of explaining to people in lots and lots of different ways what it is that you're trying to convey. So you have that arsenal there because you've got something for every single kind of person, you know. Like, as trainers, we have a big arsenal of things that we use. We move, we change, we adapt dependent on the dog and what that dog needs in that moment. Do the same for your clients would be my advice to you, or honestly, do the course. It's great. Sam, that's one of the trainers here, came came through Kirky's training development program, and he's a sick trainer. You're welcome. Da da da da. When would you choose to interrupt and redirect positively versus use of punishment? And 100% agree. Um, so in terms of redirecting and using a positive marker versus punishment, firstly, you can't leave your dog in the gray area at all. You need to have a well-conditioned punishment marker so that you're able to give the dog the entire picture. When they get it wrong, feedback: that was incorrect. Punishment event will now follow. Then be able to represent. Want to try again? Did you understand what I was trying to convey to you? And then when the dog makes the correct choice without guidance from you, choosing to disengage from the thing, that's when I would use my positive marker and reinforce the correct thing. So there, the dog has the entire picture. That was incorrect. Not worth it to do that again. I don't like it. We're not going to be pals if you act that way. That was correct. I like that. Do that more. So the dog has that very clear disparity of right and wrong, and then they're able to be like explorative with their behavior, be like, okay, so when I do that thing, not so great. How about this? And you're like, yep, like that. Pay that. They're like, how about this? Yep, like that. Pay that. And then they can really start to understand what it is that you're trying to teach them. So, um, I would only ever interrupt and redirect positively if I have a well-conditioned punishment marker, and I'm also able to give my dog the other side of the picture, the full puzzle. I don't know. It's well past whatever time it is. What time even is it? 20 to 6. I'm waffling, but if you've been here before, you understand the point I'm trying to make. Um, yeah, make sure you've got positive— really good positive marker. Make sure you've got a really good punishment marker, then use both. I'm getting a livestock guardian dog, Great Pyrenees. He's 10 weeks old and I'm gonna put in as much training as I can. Any tips that you can help me with? Um, what you getting that dog for? To like, are you going to use it for anything, or is it just going to be a pet dog? And where you getting that, that livestock guardian breed from? I understand you're already committed to this dog. My Main advice to you would be to research that breed and really, really understand them before you bring them home, especially if that dog is going to be a pet dog, because livestock guardian breeds were not bred to work with people. They were bred to work independently. They can go weeks without eating. Once they hit adolescence and that those breed-specific genetics really start to come out, you're going to want to be prepared to protect your livestock. Oh great, that's probably not the answer I expected, to be honest, because lots of people are like, till I'm on my sofa. Um, I And it's from a farm. Oh great, sick! Get it out there doing what you want it to do as early as you possibly can. Get it out there doing what you want to do. Have you ever had one of those dogs before? To be honest, if you're getting it from a decent breeder and, um, it's coming to do the work and it's from a farm already, my top tips for you would be keep in contact with your breeder. They will have the best advice. It's Obviously a breed that they know. Um, they'll know their individual dogs as well, so keep in contact with them. Any issues that come up, they will probably be your best bet, or they will know someone who specializes in that breed that you can talk to. Um, that would be my top tip for you. Um, it comes pre-built if it's from my mom. that uses them. Yeah, like, you— it's honestly like super fascinating watching working dogs when their genetics just kick in without any guidance from you. They just know what to do. It's like amazing to watch. It's really incredible. Sam that works here is obsessed with Kelpies. He has a Kelpie, um, and he's like forever watching videos. He's like, look at this puppy, he's just like 6 weeks old or whatever and he just knows what to do. Collies are my experience though. Maybe talk to Connor, he's been with working dogs before. But you're, you're getting that job, that dog from the perfect place to do the perfect job, so you're already smashing it. I would just keep in touch with the breeder if I was you. Um, Back to the old questions because I've woefully neglected them. Um, can a boot camp help if a previous trainer used tools badly and scared my dog? Yes, we've had plenty of dogs come through boot camp that have had previous experience using tools with other trainers. Not bashing other trainers. Um, so you know, many roads lead to Rome. We do things the way that we think is most effective, and we have seen results of it being the most effective way to train. Um, we've obviously worked with loads of different dogs with loads of different behaviors, loads of different breeds, loads of different ages. Um, so we do things that we know work, that we've seen results from. Uh, in terms of like tool usage, I'm never gonna bash other trainers for whatever they do because I wasn't there and I don't know. But yeah, we've had loads of dogs come through boot camps that have used them before with other trainers. They haven't worked. Potentially they were using them, um, the timing was wrong, they were using the wrong specific tool for that dog in the wrong moment. There's a whole bunch of different things that could be going on there, but you can absolutely recondition equipment to mean the thing that you want it to mean to that dog. And I think the way in which we work is really helpful for dogs that really struggle or are, as you say, like Your dog who has become scared for whatever reason. Ultimately what we do here is, yes, taking behaviors off the table— reactivity towards people, dogs, cars, bikes, whatever reactivity— but also about changing feelings. The only reason we need to make sure that we're able to effectively remove that behavior from the table is That's so— is so that we can start help— start helping the dog to rebuild, to change feelings, change emotions, see that the world's not out to get them, open up their lives, get them off lead, get them out in the world, get them exploring, get them being a dog, encourage their curiosity, build their confidence back again. It's something that we're really, really passionate about. So Yes. Again, long old answer, isn't it? But yeah, absolutely, you can come back from bad tool usage. It depends, obviously, the degree to which tools were used and what for in terms of how long that might take. But if you are struggling with something like that, my advice to you would be to use the link that I think is at the bottom of this chat here, book onto a call with one of our trainers and talk to us exactly about what's been going on, what you've tried before, how the tools we use, and we'll be able to point you in the right direction. If we can help you, we absolutely will. Um, and even if we can't, we might be able to point you in the direction of someone that can. So, um, book a call again like this. It's free, innit? So just do it. It's only half an hour. Um, the e-collar useful for getting a dog out of reactive state before anything actually happens, or is interruption positive slash punishment markers better? The problem is that you're gonna have there is why do you want it? You don't want it Interrupt them or get them out of a reactive state? Do you mean like before when they're starting to go stiff or they're hard staring at the other dog or whatever it might be? You want to be able to show your dog in black and white what is correct and what is incorrect. You— yes, you need to have— yeah, you need to have a positive a really well-conditioned positive marker and a really well-conditioned punishment marker so that you're able to let the dog make choice. But don't use interrupters for getting a dog out of state, or equally be using your punishment marker. Punishment, when it's done correctly, is incredibly powerful and incredibly effective, but There are only a handful of things in life that are actually crimes. I think where a lot, a lot of people go wrong is punishing dogs for thinking about it. Well, I knew they were gonna do it, or they started to go stiff, or they do that thing where they're hard staring at the dog, but they haven't actually committed a crime. It's not a crime to think about doing something. It's not a crime for me To think about going to someone and punching— going and punching someone in the chops because they cut me up when I pulled out of a junction. But it is a crime for me to actually pull my car over, get out, hop in through the driver's window, and knock their chops off. I wouldn't get arrested for thinking about it. So you want to be very careful about what you punish. Let the dog actually make the choice. Let them sit at the choice point and see what do you choose to do with no instruction from me, and then give them feedback about that choice. Because one of two things is going to happen, right? They're either going to get it right, they're going to choose to disengage on their own, or they're going to get it wrong and they're going to do a crime. Have both of your markers ready so you're able to give them feedback about the choice that they made, and then be prepared, especially in the infancy of reactivity training, to be able to represent the same picture to the dog. Given the feedback that I have just provided you with, now what do you choose to do? Do you choose to carry on getting it right, or do you choose to now get it wrong? Do you choose to do the crime again, or do you choose to pick something else that I like that I can pay you for? Don't try and interrupt. That's often where tools will become activators. They feel pressure before they've done the thing. They're reaching the peak of the moment where they're about to go. They're stiff, they're staring at the dog, their mouth's just shut, and you think, You little fucker, don't you dare. You've almost got it right. And you use pressure to try and draw them back to you. And what quite quickly will happen is that pressure will become an activator. They'll feel the thing and they'll be like, sick, go time. Now I'm going to go into a reaction. Now you've left yourself in very muddy water to come back from that. Don't do that. Um, I have one question that you might be able to help me with. I have a 12-year-old Dorky. My livestock guardian dog is only 10 weeks, so how should I introduce them when I bring the puppy home? Are you going to keep your livestock guardian dog in your house, or is it going to be, uh, like an— is it going to live outdoors on the farm in a kennel or in a barn? Are you going to have Or do you plan on letting that dog live in your house? Make sure that your older dog, that it's just a nice controlled interaction between the two. Don't let the puppy go in gung-ho, first of all, especially if you don't have any control over your other dog, and just boulder the puppy over. Slow, controlled interactions outside of your house first. Inside, if you don't have amazing verbal cues with your— or with your other dog that you're able to use to control them, then you might want to keep your older dog on a lead in the house. Um, If— although I will caveat this by saying, and I'm not saying let them work it out, what I am saying is if you know that you have a responsible older dog that is capable of giving a fair correction and not going gung-ho and ham on that puppy Then I am inclined to let that happen as long as— good girl— never lived with another dog. I want this to be a good experience for her and the puppy. What's she like in terms of other dogs, or like, how is she around other dogs? Like, when I got my bigger dog Chance and I brought him home, I tethered him a lot in the house so I knew that he wasn't able to get up to mischief and go over and wind Roo up and annoy her because she's super chill in the house. She doesn't like dogs getting up in her face, but she is also very good at giving a fair correction. She's really clear with her body language. So once he was at the stage where he wasn't like an absolute monster, I let her get a few wins in early where she was like, nah, that's a boundary line, you can't cross it. Don't act like that around me. And now he doesn't mess with her because he learned very young, I can't behave like that around that dog. And I let her get a win in while he was young because now he is much bigger, incredibly powerful dog. And if he thinks he could get one over on her, he could really end up hurting her one day. So if your older dog is capable of having that interaction, yeah, it's going to be inside until it's trained. Okay, so I would, you know, figure out who that dog is first, see what he's like. Maybe he's going to come into the house and not be a complete handful. Maybe he's not going to push boundaries. If your older dog is capable of giving fair corrections, then I would be prepared to step in if you need to, but let her get a few wins in early. Make sure that that dog is always on a house lead, that they've not got too much freedom to roam too soon. Um, and be present for any and all interactions between those 2 dogs so that you are able to step in, pick up the lead if he's getting too annoying, and Remove him from the situation. Practice things like tethering inside the home. Um, again, you're going to use this dog for work, and I will hold my hands up and say, not my area of expertise. I have never worked with a working livestock guardian breed. Um, worked with livestock guardian breeds that are pet dogs. But it depends what you want to use that dog for outside. You want to be careful about obviously capping the drive if you want it to work. But in terms of like it being around your other dog, if she's good at setting boundaries, let her do it. Step in if you need to. If she's not good at stepping boundaries, then you will need to be the referee in that situation and make sure that She, your new puppy, has a well-conditioned punishment marker so that you're able to use that and say, hey, that thing you just did, incorrect. Don't do that again. You're welcome. I'm really sorry. I need, probably need to eat and I am waffling loads. That was like around about 20 blocks and through like 65 different houses to get to the answer that you were probably looking for. Which I hope was in some way helpful. Um, my dog is a nervous rescue. Will an e-collar be too much for them? No, because like I said at the beginning, the stim of an e-collar is just another form of pressure. As long as your dog understands pressure and release. They are fully capable of understanding the sensation of an e-collar. And also, for very low-ticket things like that and a nervous rescue dog, learning how to overcome pressure and yield to it is incredibly confidence-building for that dog. I think having Obviously had a foreign— and I do have a foreign rescue dog myself, Rue, who was super nervous when I first got her, scared of literally everything, wouldn't go out of the house for 4 or 5 days when I first got her, had never lived in a house. I think the thing that was always in the back of my mind was not letting the fact that she was a nervous rescue become her entire life, because she is a very capable dog. She's incredibly intelligent and she does like to learn. If you just live in the fact that your dog is currently nervous, they will always be that way and you'll never be able to help them overcome it. She— your dog needs to learn how to overcome Small amounts of pressure, small amounts of hardship in order to know that they can, that they're like, oh, I can do hard things. And that helps build a dog like that. E-collar is amazing for a dog like that. It helps them learn that they can overcome hardship, small hard things that you are there to help guide them through. And at the end of it, it opens up their world because you can go take them places, let them off, let them get curious in the environment, let them explore the world, let them grow as a dog because you know when you call them they're going to come back. Um, so I am a massive advocate for e-collar training, especially with those types of dogs, because it gives them freedom. Don't just leave them stuck on a lead because you're like, oh, they're nervous, they probably won't come back. Yes, you need to build a relationship and a bond there with that dog, and you need to teach them how to yield to pressure before you just go out there and get an e-collar. And if you are going to do it with your nervous rescue, make sure that you're doing it with a trainer who has experience with a dog like that, that can prove that they have worked with a dog like the dog that you are describing or the dog that you have. Don't go out there and try and wing it on your own. Don't try and read things on the internet and go forth and conquer and hope for the best. Work with someone who has experience. It's honestly going to be invaluable to you and your dog, and it's going to give them the life that they ultimately deserve. At the end of it. And if it's something that you're struggling with, then I would really recommend that you reach out to us, talk to one of our team. We've got so many different kinds of dogs from so many different kinds of backgrounds, about a million and one secondhand dogs between us at YCA South Coast, Perth Canine, NorCal Canine. We have personal experience with lots and lots of different dogs. Book on a call, chat to one of us. Likelihood is we have been through what you're going through, and/or we have worked with a dog that is just like your dog, um, and we will be able to give you tailored advice on the best way forward for you and for your dog based on what we chat about on the phone. Like, come to the call, be prepared to give us as much information as you can about what's been going on with you and your dog, where you're currently at, where you want to be, what you've tried before. We want to know everything so we can give you the most informed options that you have in terms of like going forward and getting you to where you want to be with your dog. The link is at the bottom of this chat group. I really honestly would recommend it. It's completely free, no obligation, and you'll get to chat to someone really nice because we're all dead nice. It's getting to the end of this stream, so I'm going to say to you guys, if you have any more questions and you want them to get answered, then I would pop them in the chat. Race to that chat box and chuck them in, and I'll whip through them as quickly as I possibly can, hopefully in a not around about a million houses kind of way like I have been tonight. Sorry. Also, this is the last time that I will be here for Two Tuesdays because I am going on my honeymoon on Thursday. So next week and the week after, I'll be in Zanzibar. Oh, that's so nice. You might get someone else instead of me, but you won't get me. So pop your questions in the chat and I will do my best to answer them because this live stream has 6 seconds left and quite honestly I have no idea when YouTube will cut me off. Um, will an e-collar hurt my dog? No. The only way in which any of the pieces of equipment we use can harm your dog in terms of like physically hurting them is by pressure sores. So if you're using an e-collar with your dog, and if you've worked with us, we really hammer it home to you, just need to make sure that every couple of hours, especially if you're going out on like a long hike, nice adventure with your dog, if you're going for a full day out, you want to make sure that you're moving the e-collar from one side to the other side. I always try and explain it like, um, for girls, if you've worn a really tight headband or if you have like your watch on and it's really, really too tight for you, um, it's fine for like 2 or 3 hours, but then it starts to get a bit sore under your skin. You just need to move it around, move the hairband, headband around. You guys know what I mean, just move it around. Every couple of hours and you'll be grand. There is no other way that those pieces of equipment can hurt your dog unless you're buying cheap crap equipment off of Temu or Amazon. Don't do that. If you're thinking about using any form of equipment on your dog, speak to a professional first. Remember what I said at the beginning of this live if you were here for it. If you're still here for it, well done. It's been a real journey, guys. Thanks for sticking with me. Um, if you're gonna use equipment on your dog, the tool itself is not the fix. There is nothing out there that you can buy in terms of training tools that you can just slap on your dog and the problem is just magically solved. The dog still has to learn something. You still have to teach the dog something. Don't rely on the tool itself to be the problem solver. That is not their purpose. Tools are a catalyst in training, not the fix themselves. Make Sam do it and have a wonderful time. Thanks. I'll send pictures and maybe I will make Sam do it. He was quite keen. He's here right now. Do you want to make your YouTube debut? Uh, yeah. He's just wandered into the office, so I think that's probably going to be a no. But maybe you'll see him next week, and maybe you'll see him the Tuesday after. That would be nice. Then he can talk into the abyss. Maybe he'll give, um, a lot more concise answers than I will, and there'll be a lot less waffling. Um, all right, well, I think I made it through all of the Instagram questions, and no one else has put anything in the chat apart from Helena's request For Sam to make his debut. So I am going to love you and leave you guys. If you're not going on holiday on Thursday, then sorry if this comes across as gloating. And if you are here in a couple of weeks' time, then you may come back and compliment me on my impeccable tan that I am sure that I will get over the course of the 12 days that I will not be in this country. Although today it was really hot, so I'll be livid if I come back and everyone's got a holiday glow, because it's always a bonus, isn't it, to come back with a tan when everyone else is pale and kind of miserable? Sorry, but it is. Um, all right guys, well, have a nice week. Thanks for sticking with me. Some really nice questions on there, really nice little group tonight. And if you didn't get your question answered, or if you still have something that you want to talk about, then use that link at the bottom of this chat, or maybe it'll be posted onto this video. I don't really know. I'm not that good with tech, but book a call, speak to one of our team. We'll help point you in the right direction. And have a lovely week. All right. Bye then. Bye.