The SECRET to Becoming a $1B+ Mortgage Loan Originator & Broker

Keep that. Keep that.

That's fun.

People will be like, who started this shit? Take 2. This is how the video starts. Take 2.

What's going on everyone? This is your boy Drews the Move with Millennium Mortgage and I'm here with Yemani Mason, Secure the Funding. That's right. And today we will be speaking about the state of the market.

We'll be talking about how to build your business as a loan officer.

Yeah, and we might get into a couple spiritual things, you know, we're spiritual people.

Absolutely. Towards the end, good energy, good vibes, right? That's the most important thing.

Yeah, absolutely.

In life.

Life. But, um, you know, overall what we want to talk to you about is, um, you know, why we do what we do.

Absolutely.

Who we are and how you could leverage what we do to position yourself for success.

Absolutely. And more importantly, how you can not only grow your business, how you can grow your life.

Man. So what's your prediction for what's going to happen next in this market?

I mean, the truth of the matter is rates are going to go back down. We know that, right? And they may not— they may go up a little bit more before they go back down, but anything that goes up must come down, right? Just like anything in the economy, just like housing prices, things have to start to stabilize, which is what we're going to see. We're already seeing that in the housing market. We're already seeing the rates have continued to go up. So at the end of the day, that's going to considerably drop sometime soon. And so again, going back to opportunity, right? You have a massive opportunity when it comes to being able to buy now on a little bit of a dip, being able to buy with a little bit of a higher rate, but just refinance later on down the road, right? And into a lower rate. And In actuality, I mean, I'll be honest with you, I'm used to giving people and directing people into 30-year fixed loans. Right. But recently with the surge that we've seen in rates—

We're doing ARMs.

ARMs. Yeah. Like, what do you think about ARMs? Because that's— to me—

I love ARMs. What I've seen recently, however, is there was almost like an inverse yield curve between the 1-year and the 10-year Treasury. Right. And so the ARMs having run off the 1-year and the 30-year is running off of the 10-year Treasury, it was like when I ran pricing, it didn't really make sense to me on a couple of deals. So I'm like, the rate's almost identical, if not similarly comparable, you know, by maybe a quarter point better. So I'm like, I don't know if it really makes sense for some people, right? For others, it makes a lot of sense. I mean, a quarter point on a $2 million loan is big time. You know what I mean? So yeah, I mean, a lot of, that's where, what we saw in the past, especially with ARMs, was that it was a place where wealthy people flock to, especially during times of uncertainty where, you know, we believe that rates are going to come down in the next 3 years. It's not sustainable any longer than that, right? So if you believe, which I do, that rates are going to be down in the next 3 years, what better option to get into than a 3/1 ARM? You get fixed at this, you know—

The lowest rate possible, right?

The lowest possible rate at the time in the market. For 3 years, and then in the 4th year when it adjusts, then you drop it. And if it doesn't, and God forbid the rates do go up again, right, or higher than they are now, you're typically capped. You have interest rate caps. So a lot of people have this false identity behind ARMs where they think that in the 4th year after it adjusts, it's going to blow up and then they're going to come take my house. And I'm like, nobody's going to come take your house. There's interest rate caps. You know, if it's at 6% now, is only going to go up to a 7 depending on what the cap is. The next year it's going to go to an 8. Next year it might go—

it's going to drop.

You feel me? So it's like they're not going to just come take your house because the whole note's due. This isn't a hard money bridge loan.

Yeah.

You know what I mean? So I think a lot of people, they have a false identity behind what an ARM is. And that's because like back in the day, people were doing some shady lending.

There we go.

And so people's parents, they hear ARMs and they lose their minds and they're like, well, my dad said that they almost took his house because he was in an ARM. He had no idea he was in it. And I'm like, That doesn't happen anymore. No, you know, no, you know how heavily tight this industry is regulated? Is regulated?

Oh, big time.

I mean, yeah, it's not—

yeah, and, and, and, and, you know, not to cut you off, but, you know, people have that— say that like it's like post-traumatic stress disorder or post-recession stress disorder. I don't know what you want to call it from like 2008. So like people think like that's where we're going again because Oh my God, this is like what happened again. And I tell people all the time, like, dude, 2008 was a once in a lifetime thing. Like literally, like if you think about it, like the Great Depression happened when? In the 1920s.

Yeah.

Right? Literally like that entire generation had to die off before we saw the Great Recession, right? Because that generation learned their lesson. And what did we see after that? We saw boom times. All the way till 2000, until things started to get loosey-goosey, right? But that's true. What happened after 2008? We learned again, you know. So are we going to make the same mistakes? No way. There's too, there's too much regulation, right? There's, there's, there's lenders and investors specifically are, are way too smart and, and, and learned because they, they lost a lot of money, right? And these are very savvy individuals, right? These are big institutions, hedge funds, banks— like, these people don't like to lose money, and they typically don't. They're like the house, right? The house doesn't lose.

Exactly.

So, you know, I think that's where there's a disconnect, right? Is that people are assuming that it's gonna— like, 2008 is gonna happen again, and that's not— like, and, and like, think about it, like, what's the difference? Like, there's a, there's a lot of differences. You know, like, you weren't in the business in 2008.

I wasn't.

Okay, I wasn't either. I was like in college, you know.

No, but I mean, they, they were giving loans to like everyone, you know. Some people got 2, 3 loans. They didn't qualify for anything. Um, now the only, the only— I don't even want to compare it because it's not comparable at all, because back then there was like no income loans were no income loans, right? At least now they're based off of something. I have no income loans, right? But they're based off of something.

Based off of you putting down a crap ton of money.

Either that or it's based off of 1007 rental addendum because we have all of these DSCR loans. I mean, I would say 60% of my business is DSCR, which is, you know, for everyone watching, a DSCR loan is a no income loan for investors where we base the income to qualify for the mortgage off of the rental or the cash flows of the property itself. Right.

So in order to figure out their cash flow—

and investor cash flow, exactly. So in order to determine like what is that number, we send out the appraisal. The appraiser to not only assess the value, but then they assess what the market rent is based off of long-term lease. We use that number to qualify, right? So all of our 4 pillars, you know, credit, income, assets, collateral are all met. So it's still not a no-income loan, even though we're not using the income of the client, we're still using the income of the property. And I think that's where people have the misconception is that this isn't '08 where you didn't need any income whatsoever to qualify. You still need income generated from the property. Absolutely. So where I could potentially see a problem happening, because I've done a lot of these deals, is if there really is a true recession, which means that there's going to be an increase in job loss, right, or unemployment rates, which I don't think is going to happen anytime soon because we're in the hottest job market ever, ever.

Yeah, employment's at a record low and people can't find enough people to work right now. That's true.

That's true. I can't, I can't find— I can't. Yeah, I need, I need— dude, let me tell you how hard it is.

If you need a job and you're in the mortgage industry, call Drews to Move or call Secure the Funding. Okay.

That's right. So yeah, I mean, that's what I've seen is it's been very difficult to find good workers, right? But what I'm thinking is the only possible scenario that could happen that could cause a dip in some sector of this market would be if there was an increase in unemployment rates and, you know, people became jobless, they're not traveling anymore, um, and nobody's renting these Airbnbs. Then that could be an issue because they're not getting the rent that they were getting. Now the trade-off is instead of renting on Airbnb or VRBO, they just stick a 12-month tenant in it, right? That's it. And hold out, uh, even if they have to take a minor loss, you know, they take it, right?

How much do you have to put down on these DSCR loans?

20%.

Okay, so if the market drops 10%, which, which, which, which it would be huge, dramatic, right? Given, given the, the, the circumstances around this time, you're still up 10%. Yeah. If you can't cash flow anymore as an investor and, and you need to liquidate, you should, you should still liquidate and at least get back 10% of that money. You only lost 10% in your pocket, right? And then you probably really didn't even lose 10% because you were making profit before that. So you probably made—

probably not.

You think about it, it's, it's, it's probably one of the safest investments right now, like literally because of that, because you can claw back your money and you can actually still liquidate at any given time.

I agree.

Like stocks, forget about it. You, you buy— you, you bought, you know, Tesla, Facebook, all these tech stocks, you know, you Yeah, you're gonna have to wait for it to go way back up there, you know, unless you double down and start buying at the dip. And then, you know, then, you know, you got to be like a stock trader to do that. You know what I mean? Like, you, like, you got to know what you're doing. You got to be, uh, Forrest.

Yeah, Forrest knows what's up. Yeah, Forrest to make money. He makes money if it drops or it goes up.

But, you know, he's a, he's a, again, an actual trader.

That's what he does. Yeah.

So if you want to be able to hedge, right, because that's what it's called, it's called hedging. Right? Hedging your money, right? Inflation's at an all-time record high, right? We know right now trash is— the cash is trash, right? Like, you had $100,000 in the bank last year, that's— you got $80,000 worth of buying power this year, you know what I mean? Like, so yeah, you want to get it into an asset that ultimately is safe enough where if the market does drop, at least you know that you have a limit and you have a way of being able to claw back your initial investment, or at least a big portion of your initial investment, and you probably made profit to cover the rest.

Yeah, I agree. So, man, and that's why when people call me and they're like, oh, well, the market's going to drop 40%. I saw it. I saw it. And I'm like, who the hell comes up with these numbers? This is crazy. Do you know what would happen if the real estate market dropped by 40%? The type of disaster that would ensue as a result of that? Yeah. And, and what would lead up to that? Do you know what type of catastrophic event would have to take place for the market to drop by 40%?

Oh, absolutely. Their banks would shut down. Like, literally, banks would just go out of business.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, let's actually— let's touch base on, um, I mean, how much non-QM business do you do?

Do you do more and more now? And like, like, literally, it used to be like, bro, nothing.

Really?

Non-existent.

Okay.

So maybe like 5, 10%, you know, like, you know, because, you know, most of my clients are like first-time homebuyers, you know what I mean, because of all the educational stuff that I do. Um, but now, bro, it's like, bro, it's almost like 40, 60. Oh yeah, okay, non-QM.

So like, well, I got into the business because of non-QM. Non-QM was like my bread and butter, so I've always been like 90/10, 90% non-QM, 10% everything else. Um, recently it's shifted. I do more like 80% non-QM. Um, but speaking of banks going out of business, like, we just saw one of the largest non-QM banks in the space go out of business, which is Sprout. So Sprout Mortgage just went out of business.

I was surprised when I saw that.

First Guaranty just went out of business. They're not, they're not as big. Sprout's huge. Sprout's been in business for years, right? But, uh, what I've noticed is guidelines in the secondary market have tightened considerably on non-QM. Uh, what we've seen as a result of that is all of this debt that they were holding has hit the secondary market. I don't know what the ramifications of that are going to be yet, but what I have seen is a lot of programs that were allowing for higher LTVs before and no longer allowing it. So like bank statement programs used to be 90 LTV. Yeah, they won't do it any more than 80 now. Right. So people who were in the market that were buying at 10% down bank statement or 1099, they have to put down 20 now. So I have seen a tightening of the guidelines because of that. But I'm wondering, you know, speaking of bank shutdowns, if we're going to see this as being a recurring theme, because what's happened is, especially in the non-QM space, a lot of these lenders, they went and, you know, they, they sent debt out at 6%, 7% a month or two ago. And now those same loans are going for 8.5%, right? So they can't sell them on secondary. So they have to take the loss, which is what Sprout was doing, or they have to have some incredibly high rate at the beginning, which means they're losing business on the front end. Or they have to keep it on their books and service it, which most of the banks are not set up to do. Yeah, that's why most people, they have a bank they close with and a month later it's sold to someone else.

Yeah. And that's what we're seeing in the market. Like, dude, literally yesterday I priced a loan, a cash-out refi for somebody, and 30 minutes later the market worsened, bro. It went up by half a point.

Yeah. No, people don't see that.

Like 30 minutes. I was like, I was like, what? Do you know how much half a point is? It's huge on the cost of a loan. Like, think about it. You buy a $500,000 house. Yeah, bro, have a place, $2,500. Like, in 30 minutes you're paying more. You just lost $2,500 for that same rate. So it's so like, okay, going back to what you said, right? Like, what, like, okay, if credit tightens, right, which a lot of people are saying, oh my God, if credit tightens, then, you know, that's going to be the first signal for the market because that's what happened in 2007, right? Um, but credit has tightened since 2007. If you look at the, the chart, like, I was looking at it the other day, like, credit has tightened significantly since 2007 anyways.

I mean, you see it, but like, ask somebody who just recently bought a house how much shit they had to send us. Yeah, like, we— for us, it's normal, like, oh, if you have a deposit over 10 grand, I need to have an explanation and a letter and like source it, right? If you got this, I got to get this. If you have that, I got to get that. And for us, it's like, it's common. It's like second nature to us. But to especially a first-time homebuyer, when they start getting conditioned left and right, they're like, what? Why do I have to do that? What do you mean? Why do you need to see that? Why can't I send you a screenshot? Right? So it's like they have to send us so much documentation. It's actually overwhelming. In 2006, 2007, that wasn't the case.

No, it's no—

you had to write it.

No income, no assets. The way they call it, Ninos, Ninas.

So the credit, the credit has tightened substantially. Substantially since 2008. Yeah.

What were you seeing in 2008? No docs, no assets, no nothing. 100% loans. I mean, like, these people shouldn't have been buying houses. Like, you ever watch The Big Short where, like, he goes into, like, the strip club and it's like a stripper, like, she's like, oh yeah, I just bought 5 houses. And he's like, oh yeah, this is going to— this is going to crash. Like, that was confirmation for him. He was like, yeah, let's go back and buy all these short positions. You know what I mean? And so like, you're not seeing that happen again. Like, not unless, you know, she's working very hard and she got 20-25% to put down, you know what I mean? Like, but she got to be working for that, you know?

Exactly.

You gotta be a live pole dancer for that, you know? So hey, you know, we love our strippers too. Hey, you know, we support everybody. You know, we not— no discrimination here, uh, no judgment, right? Um, now what do you think is going to happen if more lenders go out of business? Because honestly, what we're seeing in our industry right now is, bro, there are massive layoffs happening.

Oh, for sure, bro. But those are all refi-based. See, look, let me tell you something. Let me tell you something. I—

here we go.

When I got in the business, I worked at a chop shop call center. This place was chop shop. You want to talk boiler room? That's where I worked.

I think I know where you worked.

And so we were on the, we were on the phones all day calling, and we were reaching out to people who had recently purchased a home with the intent of refinancing them. We were refinancing them by way of cash-out rate, rate-and-term refinance, or whatever it was. Our intentions were to refinance people so that they could save on their monthly mortgage payment or get cash out, right? So what we're seeing now is if you had a 4% rate or a 3% or even a 2%, because we were in the 2s last year, I just saw a story that I had from Instagram from last year, it popped up. It was like 12 months ago on this date you posted this, and it was, uh, one of those UWM banners you get in your email where it's like, congratulations, you just CTC'd a file in 10 days. Yeah, in 10 days with rates in the 2s. And I'm like, yo, what the hell happened? These people are in the 6s now. From the 2s to the 6s in a year.

Yeah, I had some— bro, I had somebody in, in, in December, it was, you know, it was a 10-year fixed. Yeah, for 1.99.

That's crazy.

They Think about that. Conventionally, conventional, 1.99, dude.

That's crazy.

And now we're at what, 6? Think about it, that's a 3x increase since December. Of course the market's going to slow down. Of course, of course we're going to see a slowdown, but that doesn't have anything to do with lending.

No, right?

Banks are— yeah, some lenders, not banks, but mortgage banks, mortgage lenders, right? Lending, uh, mortgage, primarily mortgage brokers, bankers, whatever you want to call them, they are going out of business, right? Because what do they do? They got drunk off of these low rates and these refinances, right? So to me, that's not really an indicator of a bad market because—

but that's the thing is because if somebody got a 3% and now the rate's at a 6%, what are they going to refinance? Nobody's going to refinance unless they desperately need the cash and unless they have a ton of credit cards or auto loans or something that are over 8%, 9%, which most credit cards are obviously, is you're going to take all that cash out at 6.5%, pay off all your credit cards. And essentially in the grand scheme of things, in your debt-to-income ratio, you're actually saving money every month because of that. But if you're not in that specific scenario or situation, or you don't have some type of urgent need for—

but then you still got to refinance your whole loan that you got at 2%.

You feel me?

Who wants to do that?

That's what I'm saying.

For that, you might as well do a HELOC, which, which we could talk about next.

So many HELOCs.

Oh, absolutely.

But that's what I'm saying, is that these refi shops are going out of business because it does not make sense to refinance in most circumstances anymore, especially if you had a rate in the 2s or the 3s. Why would you get out of that, right? So something that I just uh, experienced was I get a phone call from a friend of mine who's like, um, hey yo, that shop we used to work at for like 4 years, they were in business for 24 years, they just closed their doors, they went out of business. Oh, of course. So I called the CEO and I'm running their bag and they're—

they grabbed their bag from the last couple years and they ran out the door before they could— before—

before— I— dude, I have a really tight relationship with the CEO. Him and I are like really close. And so I call him and I'm like, we left on great terms, and I'm like Dude, what happened? Like, is everything good? And he's like, it's never been better. I'm on the beach with my girlfriend right now. This guy's like 70 years old, bro. And he's like, yeah, you know what, we had our run. We were— we made a lot of money for 24 years. He's like, and I'm out of the business now. Yeah.

He's like, look, I ran away with my—

he's like, look, I sold the business. We had a million bucks left in the account after we let everyone go. And he was like, so I took it and I bought an investment property, you know, I got a little cash flow. And then he's like, but we made so much money. He's like, I'm a multimillionaire. I don't— I don't need the the stress of this, I fired everyone.

Liquid. And you see, that's my— honestly, no, but it's— that's the mentality. And to be real with you, that's— that's— bro, that's the— that's the thing I hate about this industry, bro, is that they treat people as a commodity. I know, you know, and it's like people are commodities, bro.

That's why I left there. Yeah, I mean, look, that's— that's— I still have a very close relationship with them, but what I told him on the phone is I said, you know what, Fucked up. It is. Well, but what I know it is, it is. But I'm like, you know what?

Yeah, you, you moved away.

He's away. But everybody else that was there, they're in a terrible position now. And the worst part about it is they only trained the people at the company, just like all refi shops do, just to do one type of refi or to do one type of product. But most of the refi shops do not do purchases. So anybody that was a loan officer at one of these companies, they don't even know how the hell to do what we do. No, right?

So they don't know how to fish either on their own.

They don't know how to go get business because they were spoon-fed leads. Yeah, right. Because at the call center I was at, who gave us the leads to call? He did.

Yeah.

Where did that come from? Where did the inbound leads come? It came from mail he was sending out. So if my guy went out of business, he's no longer sending mail, there's no more leads, and you don't got that money.

That's dried up, right? And there's not— even if you do, then nobody gonna be calling you because you can't sell them at 8% rate.

So what I told the guy was, I was like, dude, I just wanted to tell you how much I appreciate the opportunity that you gave me, because I wouldn't have gotten in the game if I didn't— if I hadn't met you. I wouldn't have paid off all the debt I was in if I hadn't met you. You gave me a great opportunity. Yeah, I learned from that, and I left, and I went into the purchase game, and I was like, for the first 3 years, I didn't make shit. And then all of a sudden, I blew up, and now I get to do what I do.

What? So what? Okay, so what changed?

What changed? Um, like, why did I leave?

No, no, well, not why did— well, Okay, well, okay, what— why did you leave? Okay, well, I'm sure that's not a, you know, whatever, maybe you don't want to discuss that, but, but what changed when, when you blew up, like, 3 years after you left?

Yeah, yeah, so, uh, it actually wasn't even a full 3 years, it was probably like a year and a half, 2 years that really it took me, um, you know, but I, I think really what changed— first of all, the reason that I left was because I hate having to do what people tell me to do. It's just something that is in me. Like, I'm, I'm rebellious, call it what you want. But like, if someone calls me and tells me like, it's 8 o'clock, why the hell are you not at the office making calls? At the end of the day, you didn't make your 200 calls today. I'm like, bro, screw these 200 calls. I'm, I produced more than the guy next to me, and I made, I made 50. And he's like, oh well, imagine if you did 200, right? And I'm like, dude, I don't want to hear that noise. Like, you know, so I hit my numbers. So yeah, so for me, it was, it was not only that, like, the, the the act of working for somebody that I didn't like. It was also the act of like basically being a slave to someone else. So if I don't know how to go source my own business, I am relying on someone else to spoon-feed me. So what happens when his pockets run dry or he can no longer, you know, feed me or the leads are trash one month, right? I don't eat because I'm relying on someone else. So that's— this is the whole like teach a person to fish, they're going to be successful. If you just give them one fish, they're going to, you know, eat and then be hungry again.

Yeah, and you would have been one of those thousands of employees that's out of a job right now and you don't know how to fish. You're just sitting there, you know, waiting to be eaten. You are the fish.

And so this is why I had this like gut instinct that was telling me like, you need to leave and, you know, need to take the risk and go out and do this. So I did. I ended up going. I found this guy from New York that was like, oh, I'm starting an office in Miami and like, I know you love Miami, so I'd love to train you and teach you all these things. And so I got into the business and then along the way I met mentors. And one of my mentors, he's an incredible loan officer. Unfortunately, we didn't leave on the best of terms, but he is such a good LO. And he coached me and he was just like, bro, you have this Instagram platform, you have all these followers, you're always posting this bullshit. You're at parties, you're on yachts, you're on boats, like you're bullshitting. People don't even know that you do loans. And I was like, I didn't want them to do loans to know that I did loans because I was kind of—

that's not swaggy.

Yeah, you're right. So then, so he was like, bro, you need to transition your Instagram account from being all about the bullshit and the lifestyle to being about mortgages and about real estate. And it was crazy because once I made that, at first I was trying to do what everybody else was doing for like a year, year and a half. And I'm like, I'm making calls, I'm going to meet realtors, I'm doing this, I'm doing that. And I'm like, this is terrible. Like, I don't want to do this.

No, that's for the birds.

I made this transition, bro, and I started just posting about mortgages. Oh, I got a loan closed, CTC, this and that, taking photos with my agents. And all of a sudden, bro, it started like blowing up and I got all these agents and they started reaching out to me. I was no longer reaching out to them, asking them for business. They're reaching out to me telling me they got leads.

The hunted instead of the hunter.

Yeah.

And so that's what it is.

And that's what happened, man. And so the transition happened and I still don't post a lot. I mean, I post on my stories every day, but I don't post posts like I'm very behind. I have a lot of backlogs of content that I should put out there, but it's like I know now because of my business model, the more I post, the more business I get.

Oh, absolutely.

If I don't, if I feel like I'm a little overwhelmed, I just take a break and I disappear like a ghost for a week or two and then it slows down and then I come back and it's like, if you're out of sight, out of mind, the business stops. It's like turning the faucet off. And then when you pop back up, the business starts again. And it's crazy. My Instagram was down for 10 weeks. It got hacked, deactivated. During that timeframe, I, my business dropped by 80%. Damn, in new apps.

Damn.

When my Instagram turned back on, because I hired a cybersecurity guy, came back on my business and running.

Was it Ryan?

Who, the, the guy?

The guy that I recommended you to?

No, it wasn't him. It wasn't him. No, I, I found another guy. I found a guy actually in Uganda. Tell me how difficult it was to pay the guy in Uganda.

Oh wow.

Yeah, it took me like a week.

Oh, that's crazy.

But he got me an account.

Shout out to Uganda.

Yeah, shout out to Uganda, right? Um, but yeah, I— but man, that's like, that's really where the transition happened, was I think what people try too hard is they try to do things that don't— they're not in alignment with them, number one, right? And then they try to do what other people are doing instead of taking something that they're already good at, something that they already do, and leveraging it and being themselves.

Oh my God, thank you, bro. You're preaching to the choir right now. Oh my God. So, so, okay, so, so you and I, you know, we have a pretty good Instagram presence, right? Not a lot of loan officers do, right? They're not like you and I, right? They don't know how to post per se, right? Either, either they post too much business or they don't at all, right? There's no— like, they're usually— there's no in between, right? It's either like everything is like loan flyers and, you know, a closing.

Nobody wants to see that shit, bro.

Or, or it's just like you, like you said, they're out on the yacht and, you know, like, and they're like, what does this person do? You know what I mean? And, and I think me and you have found like a healthy balance, right? Where, where, yeah, we've become the hunted versus the hunter. Not to say that, you know, we still don't reach out to people on Instagram, that we still don't, you know, respond to certain things and do things to grow our, our, our follower base and to grow our Instagrams, right? It's a lot of hard work that goes into it behind the scenes that people don't realize, right? Like, for instance, filming this, just coming here, like, this is a whole production, you know what I mean? Like, but people don't see an hour to get here. Yeah, right, you know. So, so like, okay, so what do you think is like— because I know what, what I did, right? Like, to, to be able to grow my, my account and my profile.

Yeah.

But what is the one thing that you did that you think most helped you grow your profile?

Yeah, that's a really good question. Um, so the thing that really took my profile like to another level. And my following base, my engagement was going to events. Events is what took me. So there— and really, I think the, the bulk of it happened because I used to be heavily involved in networking event, um, called Epic Talks here in Miami. I haven't been in a long time, um, but Melissa Wagi, she runs this, um, this event called Epic Talks, right?

And it—

that's where I met most of the people that I know in Miami from there. Secondly, from my church, Vu, Vu Church, right? Huge church in Miami that is just filled with a ton of millennials, a lot of agents. And so basically what I do is it's not about me and my gram when I'm like posting stuff. I tag almost everyone that I'm with all the time. So if I'm at a networking event and I do a video, I'll record somebody just like you just did when we got in here. Like, I'm with my boy Drew. We're in the same space.

They're going to repost it.

A lot of people could consider us competition, right? But bro, there's enough blood— well, there is blood in the streets right now, but there's enough gold in the streets. There's enough gold in the streets.

Absolutely.

And so it's like—

because there's a realtor that's following me maybe that maybe doesn't like me, but they're going to see Drew's the Move, right? They're going to be like, oh man, I like this guy. And then there might be somebody that's following you that's like, I don't like Drew's the Move, but I like this guy. He looks swaggy, you know what I mean?

So there's people people that follow you that don't connect with you, but they might connect with me and vice versa. And so what was big for me is when I started going to these events where I'm at a church event or something, I always tag everybody that I'm in the video with because they repost me. So now, smart, instead of just reaching my 13,000 people that follow me, reaching their— I've now reached their 6,000 and their 15,000 and their 2,000. And now all of a sudden, by the end of the night, I've had exposure now to the parties of over 30,000 people.

Or more. That's right. That's smart, bro. And so, and you know what, like, I didn't even think about that per se. So it's crazy that you mentioned that because like now that I'm thinking about it, I'm like, dude, yeah, every time I've posted something and I've tagged somebody, I'm like, yeah, my followers, my, my, you know, not that I really follow like, yeah, like how many people are watching my stories, you know, every once in a while I just swipe up. Okay, you know, all right, I still got it, you know. But like the, the couple times that I have like tagged people, right, um, because I, I just, some, you know, sometimes, you know, you're just like, you know, it has been significantly higher. You're like, oh wow, like, you know.

Yeah, no, that's true. And so that's how my page really grew, was just from collaborating. And so now you've got this whole like collaborator ability where when you do a post you can collab with somebody else, and it's like that exact example that I just gave you but on basically on steroids, you know.

Yeah.

Um, and so yeah, man, that's basically how I grew my page considerably because at these events and even at church, I've been in the room with people who have substantially more followers than me, hundreds of thousands. You know, I'm good friends with a couple people that have several million followers. So when they repost you, I mean—

Oh, they're influencers.

All of a sudden you get 100 followers.

Oh, big time.

You know what I mean? So little bits like that just add up over time. And then before you know it, like everybody in Miami has seen you or knows you, or you reposted on Lifestyle Miami or, you know, one of these places where Like, I really made my hub Miami. Before that, my following was only a couple, couple thousand, and it was all New York and Washington, DC, and the two places where I lived, right? That was my network. When I moved down here, it now started becoming all organic. People hit me up all the time in the DMs, hey, pay $1,000, we'll give you 100,000 followers or whatever. And I'm like, I don't want that. Number one, it's terrible for your algorithm. Number two, I don't know where the hell these people are. They might be in Bangladesh or you know, wherever the hell they are. It's not my Miami people.

Not at all.

I want my Miami people to know what I do, know where I am, know the types of products I offer, the buildings that I lend in. I want them to know what I do.

Yeah.

And by knowing what I do and seeing what I do, it's not just like you said, the guy that just throws a flyer out there every other day.

Yeah. And pays $100 for 1,000 flyers or 1,000 followers, you know, because, because I'll be honest with you, you're right, I've done that before in the past. Yeah. And I'm like Dude, yeah, like you said, Bangladesh, India, like, like, what is this really?

What loans are they buying?

Yeah, yeah. So I was like, I'm not doing this ever again. Like, everything has to be organic because you're right, it's terrible for the algorithm, right? And you're not seeing a return on your investment. Maybe your ego is, right? But you know, yeah, but then not your, not your network.

Subconsciously, the ego probably takes a hit too because you're like, I paid for this, it wasn't even real.

Absolutely. That's too, you know, and your network is your net worth. Right? And so, and so you're right, like, if you build your network, then that is going to specifically correlate to your net worth.

Yeah, exactly, man. Yeah. So I mean, everything is not just moving to social media, it's already moved to social media.

Absolutely.

You're not active on social media, if you don't have an online presence, if you are not your brand, then like, what are you doing? Yeah, you know, because people want to People want to work with people they like, they know, they connect with, they trust. So if people don't like you, if people don't know you— and people, dude, I was at the gym this morning. I started going to a new gym. This is my second day there, and some guy came up to me. He's like, yo, you're Drew's the Move. And I was just like, yeah, what's up, bro? And he was like, bro, you're so like this and that. And like, he's— we started having a conversation. This man genuinely thinks that he knows me.

Wow.

He doesn't know a thing about me other than what I post on social media, but because of that, he thinks he knows me.

Oh, wow.

Right?

Yeah.

And that's what happens is when you're active all the time, like, people start seeing you. They see that you're at church, or they see that you're at the mosque, or they see that you're doing this, doing that, you're on boats, and they start connecting with you. They're like, oh, he likes cigars, I love cigars.

Yep.

You know, he's drinking, I like drinking. He's not drinking, well, I'm not drinking either. You know, whatever. And so people start connecting with you and they trust you. I've had people reach out to me and they're like, oh, I want to work with you because I've been following you for like a couple weeks and I see this type of stuff you post and I, I just feel like I really connect with you.

Yeah, and that's the key, is connecting with people. Genuine connections, right? Like genuine connections is ultimately what's gonna make you build those relationships and that network.

Exactly.

Um, so, so yeah, so let's, let's talk about that, the, the network, right? Because there's a lot of loan officers out there that you know, are coming from refi shops like you, right? And, and they just don't know where to start, right? Um, you know, they're trying to build, uh, those authentic relationships, right? Um, and maybe they don't have like a lot of influencers and people that they know, right? Because you have to put yourself out there, right? Or, or maybe they're— sorry, go ahead.

No, no, and I was gonna say we're blessed to be in Miami. That's because we have all the influencers.

Oh, absolutely. But, but sometimes you might, you might be like me. You know, you got kids at home. I don't got time to go out there and network with— No, I don't. I'm serious with you. I don't, bro. You know, if you watch my stories, like half the time it's like, it's boring, you know? But you know, then again, I connect with people who, you know, have kids, millennials, young families, you know, that kind of thing, right? So I don't post as much on the stories as I should. Now I am like, you know, I got this. I got the gems. Like, just so you guys know, take notes here. Cause like even me, I'm like downloading this information right now. Cause it's gems, like truly like you never stop learning in this industry.

Oh, 100%.

But like, if they don't have the influencers, like, okay, so that was the way that you grew your business, correct? Now I'll tell you the way I grew my business, right? Because, you know, I didn't really have influencers or any like people that I knew. Like I, like I told you, I wasn't using that strategy. Um, but, but what I did use was consistency, right? Consistency of of putting out content, of providing value to people. And not just from a level of like, oh, the mortgage business, but just even on a personal level, you know, being able to like provide people like inspirational stuff and motivational stuff, right? And things that resonate with me that I know can help other people, right? And ultimately, you know, be able to connect with folks, right? And even more so like, Like, I do a lot of outreach. Like, people would think, oh man, this guy's, you know, you know, he's probably just got a bunch of people that are DMing him. Like, dude, I reach out to people all the time. And I'm like, listen, you know, I want to work with you. Hey, how's it going? You know, like, I'll specifically seek out people, like, and I'm very, very targeted in who I reach out to. Like, I'm not just hitting up random people.

Like, it's, it's, there's a methodical approach because you don't want to work with everyone.

Oh no, not at all. Not at all. A lot of people you don't want to work with. Well, and not only not only that, but let's, let's be honest, right? Like, we're in Miami, we're in the biggest, um, real estate board, like, in by far in the country. Like, as far as like our Miami Real Estate Association or whatever, you know what I'm like. Yeah, of course, our real estate association board. So like, there's like hundreds of thousands of realtors. Like, it's almost like every other person that you meet is a realtor nowadays, right? Um, but like, let's be honest, like, how many are doing— how many are actually doing business? How many are actually working with buyers? Like, because even you have top producers, you know, that everybody knows their names, but they don't work with any buyers. When you look at their production, yeah, they did $100 million, they did, you know, 100 transactions, but it's all listings. Like, there's no— there's maybe like 2 buyer-side transactions. Is that really somebody that I want to, you know, spend time cultivating my relationship with? Um, because are they cultivating relationships with the, with the market that I'm trying to reach? Not really. They're going after the sellers, right? And so I want to make sure that the people that I'm reaching out to are aligned, our purposes are aligned, right? So, you know, at the end of the day, that's something that's been big for me, building my network that way, you know, by actually doing the outreach and reaching out to folks and connecting with them through mutual interest, you know, following them, commenting on their stuff, liking on their stuff, replying to their stories, you know, like building a relationship organically that way, because at the end of the day, like, people like people that like their stuff, you know? And if I can genuinely connect with you and I genuinely like your stuff and I genuinely care for what you're putting out and I think that it's great content, then, you know, it's much easier to build that relationship, like, over time. And it's not going to happen overnight. Like, people think, oh, there's this get rich quick, or, you know, this, this, this, like, you know, we get these emails all the time. Are you ready for 20 to 50 referral partners? We can set up meetings for you. I don't know, like, you get those emails, probably. Probably. Sorry, what were you going to say?

I was going to say, um, man, that's huge. That's something that I just— I don't do enough. Yeah, I, I very rarely reach out to people. Um, I very rarely like comment on people's stuff or, you know, reply to their stories because quite frankly, like, I feel like I don't have the time. Well, you know what I mean? And so I'm like, well, there's a secret sauce to what I do too. Yeah, I need that.

I'll tell you the secret sauce. I'm not putting it out on— I'm not putting it out on the podcast. You can't put If you want the secret sauce, you gotta, you gotta call me. I'll give you the secret sauce.

So that's what I need is because I'm like, I would love to reach out to people. I would love to like their stories and comment on things and like, you know, talk, talk it up. But, um, that's not always possible. And you know, it's interesting because what I've found is the most successful people are not consumers, they're producers. And I don't consider myself a consumer of social media. I very rarely go on there and watch people's stuff. Very, very rarely. And I know that that's a huge component of it. And at the beginning I did. At the beginning I used to scroll all the time and I used to be liking people's stuff and commenting. And that's how I built a lot of engagement. Right. And there's still people that comment and like my stuff that I had been commenting and liking on 4 or 5 years ago. Yeah. And so they're still consistent with it. But that's because most of these people like— not knocking the general workforce, but most of these people are 9 to 5. And when they get home, they have all this free time. Netflix. Oh yeah, whatever. They're not, you know, they're on social media, they're consuming, consuming, consuming. But like, bro, I'm sure yours is the same way. My phone since we've been in this meeting is literally lit up with emails, phone calls, text messages, and DMs. Things that I'm gonna have to get back to once we get out of here. And I'm gonna be on this phone until midnight probably trying to get back to everything that we missed in the last couple of hours. And so it's like, if I'm there doing that at my desk, how am I going to have the time to go consume somebody's Instagram stuff? So that's kind of the trade-off is I think that at the beginning, like, you need to do those things. I think those are so important. Like what you said, you have to engage. If you are not engaging with your audience at the beginning, when you first get started, you're doing yourself a huge disservice because people need to see you, like you, know you, trust you, and feel like you care about them. I can't do that anymore for the most part. Yeah, I try to, but to me it's in person.

But you laid the groundwork. Ladies and gentlemen, this man laid the groundwork. I laid the groundwork. He just did it a different way. He went after his network in person, right? By hanging out with these people, influencers, you know. Unfortunately, I didn't have the time to do that 'cause I got a young family. So I just went about it through Instagram, right? I followed people that I genuinely like, and some of them were influencers. Like some of these people were like verified people, like even before I was verified, you know, and I would like, talk to them in their DMs and I would like build relationships with them. And like, I would, I would post stuff like, not like, you know, me and them, but I would post stuff like motivational stuff and I would tag them and they would repost it. So like, it's the same strategy. It's just a different approach. Right. But at the end of the day, like we put ourselves out there to be able to do that, whether it was, whether it was in person or whether it was online. Right.

That just goes back to what you have to do, which is to put yourself out there. Like, you're not going to make money and be successful if you're not taking the risks. Just like, how many guys want to go after a girl, a hot girl, right? But they're like, they sit in the corner and they don't do anything. Like, come on, how are you going to talk shop if you're not talking shop? How are you going to spit game if you're not spitting? How are you going to go after something from the corner? Like, you know, if you want—

and then they look at this, like, this, like, guy who, you know, is like 5 foot 2 and doesn't have, like, anywhere near, like, their good looks. And they're like, How did this guy get this girl?

Because he went out there and took the hit.

Oh, absolutely. And it's the same thing in business. That's right. People will look at us, or they may look at other people in their industry, and they'll be like, man, I know this guy isn't as good as me. Like, he doesn't have my swag. He doesn't, he doesn't have the knowledge that I have. Like, I should have more business than him. But like, the fact of the matter is, like, you don't have the business because you didn't put yourself out there and you weren't willing to be vulnerable. Because that's what it requires. Like, dude, I have people that don't respond to my DMs, and I'll like their shit and I'll comment on there, and they just don't respond. And it's okay, like, you know what I mean? Like, hey, it is what it is. Like, yo, I still like you. Like, you know, hey, God bless you, you know? Like, I'm not— I don't take it personal because, like, I know at the end of the day, like, my intentions were pure.

That's true.

And when your intentions are pure, bro, there's no need for ego, right? There's no need for me to feel like, oh man, you know, I'm less than because this person didn't respond to me. Because let's be honest, again, going back to what I said, we're in the biggest real estate association in the country. Like, no problem. I can't build a relationship with you. And it might be for various amount of reasons. Maybe it's not because they don't like me, but it might be because they already have a great lender relationship. And they'd feel like maybe out of loyalty to their lender, they shouldn't build a relationship with me, which is cool. That happens all the time. I meet people They're great people. We chop it up. Like, I know some of like the top producers in the county that have never sent me a loan. And these guys are really good friends of mine.

I have the same thing.

But like, at the end of the day, it's because like their loyalty is to their lender and like he takes care of them and he does, you know, there's good work for them and he's worked with them for years. And so it's like with me, it's like, okay, no problem. I'm not going to like, I'm not going to not be your friend because of that. Like, I'm still, we're still friends. I'll still come. I still like your stuff. And look, If the day ever comes that this guy maybe isn't in the business anymore, or, you know, he just is not really like taking care of your business the way that he should, you know, I'm here for you. You know, I'm, you know, I'm your buddy. You know that, like, I genuinely care for you. And like, at the end of the day, like, you know, at least if you want to give somebody else a shot, like, it, it, it probably will end up being me because of that. You know what I mean? So, and that's, and that's the long-term game. And that's the long-term mentality, right? Um, because it doesn't happen overnight, you know? And I think people— that's what people are looking for right now, and that's why a lot of people are leaving this business, you know? And so like, for me, like, that's something that I've actually like really like fine-tuned over the years. Like literally, not just like my content— like content has been like something— like you go back to like videos that me and Jason did like, bro, 3, 4 years ago, you'll probably laugh. Like I'm sitting there like at a desk like this with my little suit on and I'm in the morning. But, you know, over time, like, bro, now, like, look at me, I'm in a Hawaiian shirt. Like, bro, I don't care. Like, because I know what I'm— like, I feel confident in, in my shoes. Like, I know— I, like, I've been doing this long enough. I've been putting out content consistently for 5 years. I feel confident in that. I go to meet with a realtor, I feel confident that I could talk shop with them without, like, having to, like, talk shop, you know what I mean? Like, I could just build a relationship just based off of mutual interest and, and respect.

Like, and I think that's the thing is, like, Too many people, they go meet agents and it's all about the products and the programs. They don't give a shit about that.

They don't care.

They don't care. Look, if you could get this deal closed, just do what the hell you got to do. I don't give a shit about the deal. I have one agent. He tells me all the time, he's like, I'm like, yo, I just want to give you an update on your file. And he's like, look, I don't give a shit about the update. I don't care about what this person's DTI is. I don't care what documents are missing. I'm not going to hound them.

Just close the loan.

I don't want to hear anything loan related. And I, whenever these people call me about loan related stuff, I tell them I'm not a loan officer, call it. Call Drew, call Andrew, call, you know, Hillary, his assistant, call whoever, the processor. They're like, I don't want to deal with it. And then I have other agents that are overly involved. What's going on? Like, absolutely, you know, so you have to— they're like, oh, what can I help you get? You know, oh, they didn't give you this? I'm gonna call them right now. And then I'm like, whoa, calm down. Like, I'll take care of it. I'll call them, you know, but I just can't do it right now. But I don't want you— and then I got one yesterday. The lady gets called by the guy. Drew said that he's been trying to reach you all day. He's been calling you since this morning and he hasn't gotten the documents yet. And then she hits me up and she's like, why would you say that you've been calling me all day? And I said, look, I told this man I called you one time at 11:30. And I said, I never said that.

Yeah.

And so she went back and it caused like— and I'm like, look, I don't want the drama. This guy clearly is just pressed.

Like, he needs to get some attention. Yeah.

You know.

And so that's the business.

But that's what I'm saying is that that's why me and that person, we might not connect, right? Or we may, because depending on the state that I'm in, because at the end of the day it is all about like the frequency and energy, what you're putting out. Oh, if you're putting out anxious-ass energy all the time, you're going to attract anxious agents, clients. If you're an anxious agent, you're going to attract anxious clients, and all of a sudden it's an anxious dramatic circle from hell. And I don't want to be a part of that shit because I've been a part of that, and that's just not where I'm at. Yeah, so for me, if—

and it's funny too, because like I'm getting out of that, so I know exactly what you're talking about, because I'm like, dude, like, you know, it's, it's everything is energy and frequency and vibrations. Like, and, and, and I was going to actually go like deeper into like the asking you about Instagram and all that, and we can circle back to that. But like, let's talk about that. Like, let's talk about like the mentality portion and the spirituality portion of like how our mindsets got to the point that we were able to put ourselves out there and be vulnerable and be able to connect with people on a genuine level. Like, hey, you know, like, I want to do business with you because I like you, not because I need to do business with you, not because, you know, I want to make, you know, X amount of money. But it's, you know, hey, we do business together, we're going to make money. But most importantly, like, we're going to be happy. Like, you're going to like me and I'm going to close your loans. And it has to be a balance, you know, like it can't just be like, oh, I'm going to go out and meet realtors and that's it. Like, you have to, you have to have a team, right? It's important to have a team in place that can close your loans, right? Because ultimately, if you can't close, like, this is how these people put food on the table for their family.

Like, there's 50 other people that can close it.

Oh, absolutely. But again, going back to the aspect of the mindset and all of that, like, what is something that like you've developed over time that has allowed you the ability to discern what's right for you and what's wrong for you and be able to move on for what's wrong for you? Because I know we've had this discussion, actually, personally, like on a personal level, me and you have connected on this.

So, that's huge. Honestly, man, I had to go through some shit, some serious, serious shit. I had to go through a toxic boss. I had to go through toxic clients. I had to go through toxic realtors. I had to go through a toxic relationship with my ex. I had to go through all of these toxic situations for me to finally understand that this is what I do not want in my life, right? Because what happens is a lot of people, they they know what they want, which is number one. That's huge. You need to know what you want. You need to have a why behind it. This is what I want because of this, right? Because if you don't have a why, you're not going to be able to push through the hard times. So having a why is so, so, so important. Like, why do you do what you do, right? But also having a desire, like, I want this, I want to achieve this, this is what I'm pushing forward towards. But what's equally as important and what most people don't know is what they don't want. And in order to know what you don't want so that you can steer away from it to make room for what you do want, you need to sometimes go through some shit, right? So I went through a lot of shit. I went through some terrible deals with some terrible people. I had nightmare situations. I got burned. I got, you know, my last relationship was horrifying. But the thing is, it's like by going through those things, I can now spot red flags, but I can also spot green flags because you don't want to pay close attention to only red flags.

Yeah.

Because some—

if you're always paying attention to the red flags, you're going to find the red flag.

You're looking for it, so you're going to find it.

Oh, absolutely.

So now what I do is I'm open to the green flags, but I'm also— I'm not looking for them, but I'm also— I've got my mind open to, all right, this is a red flag, I'm going to label it as such, and I'm going to see, like, if there's more red flags than there are green flags, then, you know, we got to— then we got to cut it.

Yeah, then we got to cut it. I'm going to— I'm going to pause you right there because My wife keeps calling me back to back. Give me one second. Diana, Diana, I'm recording right now. No, no, no, I'm not at Citibank. I'm recording with Jason. Can I call you back, or is it like life or death? Okay, do you want to pick her up? Okay, but Diana, I mean, literally, I have 15 minutes left to record this. I gotta call you back. Okay, all right.

Um, I'm like thinking it's life or death, bro, and I keep looking at her.

I'm like, I hate that. I'll call you later. The thing is, I can hear the buzzing through the mic, bro. That's okay. I can hear it and I'm like—

I could—

and I keep going like this. Yo, mine kept going off too, cuz I have to have it at least on buzz, cuz like, bro, when you got— when you got kids, like, you got to have this shit on at least buzz. Like, I can't— my shit can't go on silent, like, never, you know what I mean? Anyways, whatever. These are— these are— these are— these are—

this is a blooper.

Yeah, it is what it is, like, you know. Oh, oh Lord.

Oh man. So, but yeah, man, so, um, so yeah, man, I, I'm not just looking for red flags in my agents, um, I'm looking for green flags obviously, but I'm also aware that, oh my God, this is something that has happened in the past and I don't want to be a part of it, right? So like, for instance, um, there's a lot of agents that they think that they could talk to you however because they're bringing you the business, right? And I'm like, look, you can't talk to me that way. We don't need to work together. I don't need to do this. There's 100 other loan officers that would be happy to work with you. I have an incredibly full pipeline, right? I'm doing a service to your client and you because I know how to get this loan closed. You came to me because your client got rejected by Joe Schmo, right? I'm saving your deal, so don't talk to me that way, or we don't have to work together. Yeah, you know, there's like a certain relationship that we need to have from a professional standpoint, and I'm okay now. I'm quick to fire a realtor.

Know your worth, know your value.

If, if like we don't mesh, I'll be like, look, you know what? And I just had this conversation last week with someone. I said, you know what, I just don't think that we're a good fit.

And, and, and, and here's the thing, like, know your worth, know your value, set boundaries. You're absolutely right. Because a lot of times what happens, especially in this business, is we're like, because we're commission-based, and I think probably in any like sales business or commission-based business, you're like, oh man, I just want to close the sale, you know, I'll go through like whatever drama, just, you know, whatever, you know. And you don't realize how much energy that sucks from you. Like, literally, it sucks like your whole life force away for you to be able to like progress and get out of that energy field of like anxious and needy and disrespectful people that constantly you're going to keep running into. Like we've talked about it. Like, that's now become your pattern. Like, that's what you're manifesting and attracting into your life. Because you've allowed that into your life. And when you've allowed something into your life, guess what the universe is going to do? Here goes, here goes more, here goes more, here goes more. And, and so that's why you see like half of the people in our industry are like great by the time they're like 35.

I had hair when we started this, you know what I mean?

And so like, like for instance, like if I'm like, like, all right, I'm talking to loan officers out there now. Like I'm talking to you if you're a loan officer, okay? We've all experienced like stressful realtors and clients. Like, it's just part of business. You've been in business, you, you've dealt with it. Um, what, what, what Drew's saying, right, being able to literally fire clients and fire realtors, like, that takes confidence, right? And, and that takes discernment of a different kind, realizing your worth and not just getting sucked into a game of well, I have to do this because this person needs me to do this. No, you have to be willing to let go sometimes. And that's the hardest part, letting go, right? Like letting go of relationships, letting go of jobs, letting go of certain things, because if it doesn't feel right for you, like there's a reason why. And it's not right. 9 times out of 10, it's not right, you know. And so like, you know, for me, like, You know, this is something I struggle with currently, like straight up, like, you know, because I've been in that energy field for so long and I've— but I've done the work now on myself.

That's what it is.

That I love myself enough to like put up those barriers, right? And have like some level of boundary. And if people can't respect that, then hey, you know what? I'm sorry. Like, you know, no disrespect, but this isn't going to work, right? And, and so, you know, going from having to deal with this constantly to now being in a state where, you know, you don't deal with it, it's life-changing.

It is. Well, just like as an example, so, you know, when I first started in the business, um, on the purchase side, dude, I would take anything I get. I would work with any realtor that was willing to work with me. I would work 24/7 if I had to. I took calls at 10, 10 PM, 11 PM, midnight. One of the biggest clients I ever got in my career was from a call that I answered at 12:30 in the morning. I picked up the call, I spent 2 hours on the phone with them because they were in a disastrous situation. I had to take them through hard money to save their deal, um, and they had been rejected by everybody. We stayed on the phone until, until 2:30 in the morning And the girl I was with at the time, she was pissed. Like, she was so upset. But I was just like, yo, this is the business. Like, I just— this is a check. I just came up on a check, you know what I mean? But, you know, there were things, there were sacrifices that I made out of desperation and survival.

Absolutely.

That put me in a position where now that was the expectancy. Oh, Drew's always going to answer his phone at midnight.

Absolutely.

Now Drew's always going to work 8 hours around the clock. Drew's always going to do this for me and always do that for me. And he's always going to be available and I can call him at any time I wanted. And then I had to start setting boundaries with my agents and with my clients where, hey, look, I, I don't work on Sundays. If you need to call me because of something— oh yeah, look, I'll take care of it on a Sunday, you know, if it's something small. But don't be harassing me thinking I'm gonna like pick up the phone and call your clients and like do a whole thing. I'll take an app here or there, but I'm not like— I'm not working, working. Like, Sunday's my day.

Yeah, unless, unless, unless like you, you feel like it.

Yeah, if I feel like it, which sometimes I do because I'm like I already did my thing. I meal prepped. I went to church, like I hung out. I did my thing and I feel like working because I'd rather get a head start for Monday. You know what I mean? Absolutely. So that's like, but that's on my—

but that's on you. That's my time.

Sunday is my time.

And you know why that's on you? Because you put in the groundwork, you laid the foundation. Nothing's wrong with getting—

it wasn't like that at the beginning. I had to work.

You have to, but you have to get your hands dirty when you get into this business. Like if you're a loan officer right now watching this and like you're just getting into the industry or you're coming from one of these refi shops like Drew, —Hey, I'm sorry, you got to get your hands dirty. You got to be willing to take those calls at midnight. You got to be willing to take those calls on the weekends and send out those pre-approvals. You got to get to that dirty 30 is what Danny Morell, one of my coaches, likes to say, right? Like, you got to get to like a consistent, like, 2 or 3 loans a month to be able to have, like, breathing room, to be able to know, okay, my bills are paid. I have more than enough to live and to be able to save money. But once you get to that point, right, and once you built up that good enough book of business, you got to switch mindsets now. You got to, you got to go from that survival mindset and that hunting mindset into the abundance mindset and into the growth and into the production.

And that's the thing, you mentioned something about discernment. So I have discernment with new agents now. Like, I'm going to let go of one when I get out of here, I swear to you, because I got 6 missed calls while we've been in here for an hour, and that's unacceptable. I mean, there's not— this is a brand new guy, just started talking to him. We have one lead together. The guy didn't upload his documents. Don't call me 6 times harassing me about the status of this guy. He was the worst, you know what I mean? So I'm like, I'm going to have to tell him like, look, you either got to like never do this again and like we can agree on like a 10 AM and 4 PM call or something, but you're not going to call me 6 times in an hour because I'm not answering, send me an aggressive text message, you know what I mean? That's just like, we're not, we're not a good fit. That's my, my line. We're not a good fit.

Yeah, yeah. Go, go. You know what I mean? For somebody else who's looking for to get to that dirty, dirty, hey, he's your guy. Great. You know what I mean? And if you have a team of people underneath you that are hungry like that, which is something that I know me and you are looking for, like we're looking for hungry loan officers. We have these realtors, right, for you. We can get you to that. We can help you get to the dirty dirty, right? But absolutely, you're in a space now and I'm in a space now where it's like, I don't need that. No, we don't need it. Our time, like you said, you look at your phone and you see 100 text messages.

I don't need one person sending me 50 out of those, you know, why I'm able to discern that is because I've been in a position of anxiety before where I was always so anxious, and this is causing me that feeling again, and I don't like that, and I'm not going back to that. So if you're the cause of that, you got to go. Gotta go, you know what I mean? So that's the boundary that I've set in place now because of the hardships I've been through. That's not a place that I want to go to again. But the thing about discernment is discernment comes by way of faith, right? Because if I have the faith that I'm going to get more deals and these deals are always coming to me, which they are, new agents are always coming to me, which they are. I'm always getting business. I know what I'm going to make this year. I know what I'm going to— and it's going to be a certain amount or more. So I know for a fact that I'm going to get more business and I don't need this guy's business. Right. Law of attraction. Law of attraction. Right. But the law of detachment. Yeah. And for me, it's a— it's really just the law of faith. Like, I believe that I'm going to get there. And do I have my days where sometimes I'm like, you know what? What if I fail? What if I don't get any deals? What if I don't— oh my God, what am I gonna do if I don't get any business this month? Like, I've got all this, this, you know, this mortgage and the stuff that I got to pay for, right? And it's like, dude, chill. Like, you've got money in the bank. Business is going to come to you, you know.

Just have a good reputation.

You have a good reputation. So it's like, you have to have that faith that everything's going to work out. Business is going to come. You know how to close. You know what you're doing. And the confidence, like you said, to be able to, again, like you said, let go, right? Absolutely. Discernment comes with, in my opinion, faith that everything's going to be okay, your past, knowing that you don't want to go back there, knowing what you don't want, right? And being able to let go.

And when you're able to let go and let be and say, look, I'm done with that, you just opened up a door for the universe to just bring you a bunch of abundance and to change your whole timeline, your whole life, your whole reality. Because let's be to be honest, like, people have— like, could be in the same business dealing with the same things, and they have completely different realities. 100%, you know. And one person goes and takes their business into this level, and one person goes there, right? Because it's not just about letting go, right? Because a lot of people hear, oh, letting go, letting go, letting go. It's also about letting in, right? Letting in the new energy, letting in the new people, opening your heart again, even though you might have got burnt, because we've all experienced that. I think in some way or form, right, as a human being, right? Not even just on a business level, relationships, whatever, friendships. We've all been hurt, right? And so we've closed off our hearts, right? We— our hearts have become hardened, right? We think we're willing to let go, but then even though we may be willing to let go and move on, we're not willing to let people in and we're not willing to go back out there and say, you know what, this didn't work out, but I'm going to go find somebody that it worked out with. Because I know I can do that and I know what my worth is and I know that ultimately I deserve happiness and I deserve love and peace and happiness. Exactly, man.