Ideation Webinar

All right, welcome everyone to the Ideation webinar by Board of Innovation. Before we get started with introductions, I want to give you a small preview of what you're about to receive after this webinar. So, over the last couple of weeks we created an Ideation workshop tool guide. So it's a PDF document which features three full agendas ranging from half a day to one day sessions and has all the tools included which you need as a facilitator to facilitate your own ideation workshop. During this webinar, we'll go through some of the exercises you might want to include in those ideation workshops and we'll just basically give you some tips and tricks on how to facilitate like an expert. So let's start with the introductions. Let's start with introducing your participants. Normally we ask participants to introduce themselves, but there's 1200 of you at the moment, so that might take a bit too much time. Start with where are you from? 50% of you is from Europe. We have 30% of attendees from the Americas, north and South America, then 15% from Asia and 5% from Sub Saharan Africa. What do you do? We took a very scientific poll. We had a look at the first 50 names on the attendee list and at their job descriptions. The top job title was Innovation Manager, closely followed by Innovation Coach, Innovation Facilitator, and then thirdly, which was a very pleasant surprise to us, was CEO or Founder. So it's very good to see that people running companies are actually interested in innovation and want to do ideation sessions in their day to day life. So that's you. Let me quickly introduce myself. My name is Nick Bogart. I'm an Innovation consultant at Board of Innovation, which means that I do activities all across the innovation spectrum. So I design or co design innovation strategies for corporates, I design and run accelerators, I coach entrepreneurial teams, and I'm actually at the moment running my own startup for corporate. True Board of Innovation. So Board of Innovation, as a company, what do we do? We are on a mission to make corporates innovate like startups. We use lean startup and design thinking to do this. And we mainly work for large corporates, Fortune 500s and global innovation leaders and we do so globally. Our main goal is to inspire over 100 million people during our lifetime. So to do that we can't be limited by borders. We have run and are running programs on all five continents and we're a small team. We're 25 people, but as of next week we will be 11 nationalities so that's us. Let's have a look at the agenda for today. We will start with why so why should you do ideation? Where can you find ideation in the innovation process? Then we'll have a look at the practicalities. How do you actually facilitate your workshop, what do you need, who should facilitate, who should be present, and so forth. And thirdly, what I'm most excited about, we're going to run a mini ideation workshop. We created a challenge and I've picked my two favorite tools and I'm going to run you through it through a session which normally would take two hours and we will do it in 20 minutes. And then fourthly, I want to enter some tips and tricks from the front line so you as a facilitator can start tomorrow and actually run your own ideation workshops. So why, where is ideation, the process and what is ideation? At Board of Innovation we define ideation as the process of forming ideas and concepts to solve problems. Solving problems is very important in this regard because if you look at where ideation is located in the innovation process, you might say it's located at the start. You explore new ideas, then you develop them further, you generate prototypes, you iterate and in the end you go to market and you launch a project. Now that's true if you just look at solution exploration. At Board of Innovation, we don't. We believe that the innovation process is much broader than that and that there is a whole phase in front of ideation which is about problem exploration. So first you have to find out which problem is worth solving before you solve the problem in the right way. We're going to assume at this moment that we've gone through the problem exploration phase. We have a lot of tools about that on our website, if you're interested. But let's assume we have a challenge which is worth solving. And typically we would define such a challenge as a hard my tree statement. Why do we define challenges as a hard might reach statement? Well, simply because by forming a challenge or a problem as a hard might, we question, you make it solution oriented. You are optimistic because the might includes a possibility for an answer and you make it collaborative. Looking at the we. So let me give you a couple of examples of typical problems we face on a day to day basis. How might we offer our service in a digital manner? How might we ease the experience for older people? How might we increase the happiness of our employees? How might we re engage ex customers and so forth? So this is where ideation is located in the process. Now let's take a step closer and have a look at how do you actually facilitate such a workshop. The first thing you need to facilitate a workshop is a facilitator. I have a brilliant picture of my colleague Mike here surrounded by post its. Now, people often ask us who can facilitate an ideation workshop? And the quick answer is basically everyone. It might be out of your comfort zone and it probably is. It was definitely out of my comfort zone the first time I tried. But with the right tools, which we will provide you with at the end of this webinar, you should be able to facilitate your own workshop. Secondly, who should participate again? Everyone. I believe very strongly that every team, if it's legal, accounting, hr, should do an ideation workshop at least once a year simply to refresh their brains, come up with new ideas, and I would actually advise to do it every quarter. Here at Board of Innovation we facilitate a lot of ideation workshops, but we also do it ourselves. I personally do it every month or every two months with a team. If you're thinking about developing a new tool or a new service. But the techniques you will learn today and think that's most important takeaway of this session. You can actually apply those techniques to your everyday, your day to day job. They aren't limited to ideation workshops. They're basically useful throughout your day to day and throughout your career. So everybody should participate. Although if you want to get results, we would strongly advise you to get a multidisciplinary team. Get as many people from different departments involved, so you have different mindsets on the table. Thirdly, how many people should participate? Quick answer, between 6 and 25. Although we've run workshops and ideation workshops with two persons and with 100, why would I advise you to do it with at least six? Well, simply if it's only two persons, you'll put in a lot of effort and you won't get out as many ideas as possible. If you do it with more than 25, it becomes rather complex to organize. So let's aim between 6 and 25. We have a rule of thumb which also says use one facilitator for up to 15 people. We generally divide groups in groups of three to four. If you are more than five groups, you probably need a second facilitator to really help people with their exercises. What do you need practically? Well, basically you need a room and post itself in the ideation guide there is a workshop checklist which has a bit more detail. One important thing, don't organize an ideation workshop. It's very practical. But don't organize it in a conference room. You need to have every team at a separate table so you can use all the templates. They can work together without disturbing the other teams. Second important feature, make sure there's food and drinks. There's nothing like a hungry account manager to ruin your ideation workshops. So make sure everybody's fit, make sure they all at coffee so they're awake and then you're basically good to go. So now we have an understanding of why you should do ideation workshops. You should also have some sort of an idea of how to organize it. So what you need practically who can do it, who should be there, who shouldn't be there. There is a lot more information in the ideation guide which we will send to you. But the main question we're asking ourselves, or I'm imagining you're asking yourself what is actually an ideation session and how do you do it? To explain to you there's nothing like practice. I'm going to facilitate a very short ideation workshop. So if you're watching, I would like to invite you to take a post it, to take a Sharpie or a marker. And as we're going through the exercises, just try to come up with a lot of ideas. Now, the session we're going to do normally would take two hours. We're going to do it in about 20 minutes. So I pre prepared some slides so you won't have as much time to come up with ideas. But I would still like to invite you to try. Now remember, if we do an ideation workshop, the first thing you need is a challenge. In this case, I would like to propose the following challenge. How might we redesign education? We've all been to school. Some of you might have children who go to school or even grandchildren. So we can all empathize with education. We have some good experiences. We probably also have some bad experiences. So that's important. It's going to make it easier for us to come up with ideas. Let's have a look at the planning. First, I'm going to briefly walk you through the creativity rules of the day. Then we'll have a look at opposite thinking as an exercise. We will do one round of analogy thinking and then we will take all of the ideas we selected and try to narrow it down to the best IDs during the ID selection. Let's start with creativity rules. Now, as a facilitator, it will be your job to explain to the participants of your ideation workshop. That there are certain rules that they should abide by. It's very important to do this explicitly because if you fail to do so, it might actually ruin the result in the end. And there are four rules. First one, there are no bad ideas. This is very important. There can't be judgment during an ideation session. Remember, the idea is to get as many ideas out there as possible. You don't want people to say yes, but that won't work, or worse, no, but you want them to say yes. And so make this very explicit at the start. One tip, if you see somebody being critical, just point them out. Say, excuse me, remember the rules. Please don't be critical. We'll have time to do that during the ID selection phase. Second rule, like I said before, we want to aim for quantity. So it's not about the quality of the IDs. We'll have a look at that during the selection. It's about generating as many ideas as possible. So quantity over quality. Third rule is capture everything. Now, during ideation session, typically there are a lot of ideas floating around you. If you don't write them down, they won't be taken up. So you should actually empower the participants and tell them, look, if you want your idea to be taken up later, write it down on a post it and you'll get bonus points if you actually draw it. Because you will see that people tend to gravitate to drawings. If you have a room full of ideas which are written down and there's one drawing, everybody will vote for the drawing. So tell your participants to be creative and to draw their ideas. The fourth rule which is the most important for us at Board of Innovation is hybrid brainstorming. I can't stress this enough. There is a misconception about brainstorming. People tend to think that you get people in a group and you just start shouting at this as they come to mind. You really shouldn't do that. Why? Because it leads to group thinking. The first person, generally the most senior or the loudest person in the room, will shout an ID and, and that idea will be stuck in everybody's head and they won't go further than some iterations upon that idea. So in every work, in every ideation exercise, you should start with the individual part where everybody is silent and writes down some ideas on the challenge or on the exercise. And then in the second phase, you share it with the rest of the group and you build upon each other's ideas to get to better ideas and to get to more ideas. So three basic Rules capture everything. Quantity over quality. No bad ideas. And hybrid brainstorming. After these creativity rules, it's time to get started. So let's dive into the first exercise. The first exercise is called Opposite Thinking. It's a very powerful exercise because you're going to force people to challenge their assumptions and turn them around and to use that as a trigger to generate new ideas. There is this brilliant quote I know or I've heard a couple of weeks ago which says your assumptions are your windows to the world. Scrub them off once in a while or the light won't come in. From a science fiction writer, Isaac Asimov from the States. And I would just like to start with three examples of opposites. So of things we. And with we. I mean western Europeans tend to hold self evidence, but which are completely wrong if you look at it from another perspective. So the first one is Japan. If you walk around in Japan and you ask somebody for the street name, chances are that they would look at you funny. Why? In Japan, streets don't have names. It's the blocks with names and streets are the empty spaces surrounding the blocks. So something which is very obvious to us, streets having names is completely alien to people living only 12 hours away and vice versa. Second story I would like to share is one from the Olympics. The Olympics in Mexico in 68 until the Olympics in 68. The high jump was performed by straddling the bar with your both legs, basically going with your stomach forwards over the bar. And then Dick Fosbury, an unknown American athlete, won the golden medal by doing the exact opposite. So he challenged the assumptions and he went over with the flop, as you see on the picture. And ever since, this new technique, which is actually named the Fosbury flop, has been used by athletes and became the new norm. Third example from China. Historically Chinese doctors were paid retainers by their patients if they were healthy. If you became sick, you didn't have to pay your doctor anymore because he failed at his job. So you can imagine that these opposites are good triggers to come up with new ideas. For example about healthcare. Now there's a lot more of these. There is a brilliant book by Paul Arden. Whatever you think, think the opposite. And there is also a nice TED talk about the subject by Derek Sivers. So let's dive into the exercise opposite thinking. So how do you actually. How do you force people to look at the opposite of their assumptions and to generate ideas? It all starts with a template. You can print these. We have PDF free PDF downloads on our website. If you don't have a big printer. Just take a piece of flipshart paper and draw them out. They're not that complicated. First step is you're going to ask people, list your assumptions. What are your given assumptions about the challenge? Remember, our challenge is how might we redesign education? So what are our assumptions about education? Secondly, we're going to ask them to formulate the opposite of those assumptions. So you do it for the first assumption, you generate the opposites and then based upon the opposites, you come up with solutions and you do it for each assumption until you run out of paper. Let's look at an example. List all assumptions of education. So I made a list. All kids should go to school, teachers should have a degree and we need schools. These are my assumptions about education. Now if I look at the opposite, I don't take the exact opposite. I might just rephrase it or make it 10 times better or 10 times worse. So all kids should go to school becomes school is voluntary or everybody should go to school, not just the kids. And then taking those two things, two ideas, two assumptions, I'm gonna come up with new solutions. So if school is voluntary, let's make school fun. Let's say there are no rules, so kids want to go, everybody should go to school. Let's organize monthly lectures for parents, or let's pay kids and parents to go to school. Last one might seem like a stupid idea, but it's being done right now in Mexico with rural families and it actually works very well. We can do the same for teachers should have a degree. So we move on to the next assumptions. Let's say teachers should have a PhD and teachers, the solution which comes out of that is teachers should actually be paid more than bankers. We need schools. Well, we can also say all education is online so we don't need schools. And then we install computers with learning management software all over our cities, all over our villages, and we organize education in a self steering rate. This is an example of how you might use opposite thinking as an ideation tool. I hope you have a chance to write down some of your own assumptions about education. Formalize the opposite, come up with some solutions. If you didn't, please take some time after this webinar to try it so you can just get a feel of how this might work. Now the template is a bit bigger, so generally this exercise takes an hour. There's eight assumptions. So the first step is you list all your assumptions. Now why do we start re listing them? Because you want to get. You're in a Mindset of thinking in terms of constraints. So you want to get those out first and then you break those constraints by creating opposite and immediately creating a solution. So don't create all the opposites first and then the solutions. Why? If you run out of time, and you're bound to run out of time, then you have a piece with, you have a template with no solutions and the exercise is worthless. So follow these three steps and then you move on to the next assumption. Small recap of the rules for opposite thinking. Three steps, list all assumptions, define the opposites and the solutions for the first assumption, and then move your way to the second, third, fourth assumption until you run out of paper or out of time in general. This exercise takes 60 minutes. 10 minutes for assumption listings, 40 minutes for each assumption. So that's five minutes per assumption to generate a solution. Solutions. And then you always need to count 10 minutes extra to have a discussion with the group afterwards so they can come up, they can share their best ideas, share their insights. It's often during those last 10 minutes that you learn the most as a group. Generally, I would hold a break now. Do something energizing with the group. We don't have time for that, unfortunately. So let's move on to the second exercise. Now, opposite thinking is a great starter, but this one is really the one I, I personally think is the most powerful and the best exercise you can do. It's called analogy thinking and it's basically applying a three step process. You recognize success stories in business, but also in life in general. You make an abstraction of the specific circumstances of that story and you try to formulate a pattern and then you apply that pattern to your case. So there's been research about this which says that 80% of new ideas in business comes from some form of analogy thinking. I just want to give you two small examples which I'm sure you might have heard about. The first one is the Dyson vacuum cleaner. Now, James Dyson, the founder of Dyson, was an industrial Designer and in 79 he bought himself a vacuum cleaner, which was marketed as the most powerful, powerful vacuum cleaner in the world. So he gets home, he tries it out and it doesn't work. It sucks. It doesn't suck up all the dirt. So he starts to think, well, I should be able to do better. And he remembers that he used to work on an old sawmill. And in the industrial sawmill you have a device which you can see on the picture, which is a cyclonic separator and basically removes dust from the air. So we Try to apply the same principle to a vacuum cleaner. And after a couple of years of research and prototyping, he developed the first Dyson vacuum cleaner. The second one is an example from biomimicry. So how might we take lessons from nature to develop products? It takes us back to Japan, where Fuji Nakatsu, an engineer who was working on the bullet train, was also an ornithologist. So he was a bird watcher. And he knew that the kingfisher was uniquely developed through years of evolution to move very quickly from air, a low resistance medium, to water, to fish, to a high resistance medium. So the bullet train was facing the same obstacle and he basically mimicked the beak of the kingfisher in the nose of the bullet train, which resulted in 10% faster travel time and 15% less electricity consumption for the train. So these are very nice stories about how you can take draw analogies, but how do you apply this to your business? Because this might seem more challenging. Fortunately, it isn't. It's again a very easy exercise. What do you need? You need one piece of paper, preferably a big one. And you will divide the piece of paper in half. On the right hand side, you're going to post your challenge on a piece of. Post on a. Post it. And the challenge would be in this case, redesign education. Now, second step is to on the left hand side, find an inspiring case. Out of that inspiring case, we're going to get insights and we're going to translate those insights into ideas. So step one, select an inspiring case. At Board of Innovation we created a tool for this which is called an LG template or an LG card. And basically we create, had a look across the globe and we selected the 50 most inspiring corporates and startups at the moment. And we summarized their business model in a simple two pager. There's a link to this in the email we will send you. So you can just download this for free. So you have to basically you print them out. You select some which might seem relevant. Ideally they're from a completely different industry than the one you are working because you want to get fresh ideas, more innovative ideas, and you won't get them by just copying whatever your competition is doing. So try to look if you're working in B2B to B2C context. If you work in banking, maybe have a look at agriculture, but just try it out with a couple of different cases. So we're going to select one case for this case, let's select a company that most people know Airbnb the second step is harvesting insights. So what you will do is you will ask your participants to take this handout and to take five minutes in silence to read it. So there is a front which basically gives a summary of what the business is doing, why it's unique. And on the back end, on the flip side, you can see a visual representation of their business model. Now give people the time to read it, and then you let them have a small discussion in group to come up with insights that they get out of this case. So for Airbnb, you might get the insight that it's designed for trust. There's this whole review system in place which allows people to go to another country and sleep it at somebody else's house. And then you trust somebody, they want you trust somebody you hosting that, they won't trash your house. And you're also paying somebody and you're expecting them to be there with the key. It's a marketplace, so it's basically connecting supply and demand and. And it's everywhere. That's the power of Airbnb. Wherever I go in the world, I can always stay in Airbnb. Now, the third step is critical and it's something as a facilitator, you should really explain thoroughly to your participants. They have to translate insights into IDs. And I'm saying translate instead of copy for a reason. It's not the goal to just say, ah, education should be everywhere. No, we want to take that insight from Airbnb and use it as a trigger to generate new ideas. So let's take design for trust. Maybe it goes to peer to peer grading. We can get students to grade each other. Or a transparent review system of schools where you have very clear KPIs for each school, connecting supply and demand. Maybe everybody can teach and students rate their teachers and the best performing teachers are retained, the other ones are kicked out. Teaching is a temporary geek, so it becomes part of the gig economy. I can become a teacher for three months next year and then I'm back to innovation consultancy. It's everywhere. Maybe you can get a school membership so you can switch schools as you switch gyms or mandatory resumes in high school. So you being a resumist, for those of you outside Europe, is a program where you study at university in another European country. We could organize the same thing in high school and you can come up with a lot of ideas this way. So let me recap analogy thinking. You have to follow three steps. Select an aspiring case, harvest insights from that case, or read, think about what makes this business successful. And then translate these insights onto your industry, onto your problem, and come up with solution. Now, you will do this one case at a time, but you should do it three times. So take 15 to 20 minutes for each round, but try to do three rounds. Why? The first round is always a bit tricky for participants. They're still trying to get used to the exercise. So what we generally see is that in the second and third rounds, we get the best ideas. We've done two exercises. Now, normally we would be an hour and a half, two hours into the session, everybody's getting tired and it's time to go into the selection. So we have to select those IDs which can take us first furthest. Now, this is generally the most tricky part of the process. So, for example, the picture you're seeing now is a picture I took a couple of weeks ago during a session. And you can see the walls are full of IDs. And now you have a team, and you have to convince the team that in half an hour you're going to be able to select the best IDs. And there are a couple of tricks to do this right. First, capture everything. So it's very important that you tell your participants, don't worry, we will take pictures of all the IDs. We will share those. We will keep them as a backlog so they aren't worried that their ID might not get chosen and be taken up. Secondly, empower your participants. Now, in the end, it is their responsibility, if they would like an id, to either take it forward themselves or. Or to convince their neighbor that he or she should take it forward. So really put the responsibility with them. Tell them it's up to you guys. I'm just here to facilitate you. If you want an idea to be picked, convince the rest that it should be. Thirdly, repeat the scope. Normally, at the beginning of the ideation session, you state the challenge. And your challenge might be to redesign education, but you should also state, are we looking for radical ideas, ideas that we can do in the next 10 years, or are we looking for more incremental innovations which we can do in the next couple of weeks? It's an important thing to know because it's going to affect how you select your ideas. So repeat the scope and then empower your participants. And once you've set these rules and you've explained this, it's time to go shopping. This should be a fun activity. Remember, you're almost there, the day is almost over. It's generally a bit Chaotic. It's self steering. So as a facilitator, it's important to be involved to walk around the room and ask questions. What are you actually doing? You're giving each participant a piece of paper, It's a simple A4 and it's a shopping cart. It's room for three posters on it. And you will basically ask them to walk around the room and on the walls you will have all the templates which are filled in. And you ask people to walk around the room, have discussions with their peers and to read all the IDs and to write down three ideas that they personally think should be taken over. Now they can't take it off, they have to copy it. And as they copy they should translate. So you make an ID a bit better or you combine two IDs and that's how you fill in your personal shopping cart. So let's take a look at the ideas we generated. There was one about self steering and there was one about having fun, no rules. So I translate that in self organizing schools, own courses, own rules, and I put it in my shopping cart. I also like the idea of having teaching as a temporary geek and everybody can teach. So I think people should be given the opportunity to teach for a year. Now the third idea was very simple, so there's no need to add to it. It's self explanatory. It's mandatory resumes in high school, so I just copied it. Now this process in general takes you half an hour. Important again, let me repeat the rules is to talk and ask questions. Copy IDs. Don't take it from the wall because if you let your participants take their favorite ID from the wall, then somebody else won't be able to actually have a look at it and improve the IDs that you copy. Now you will have generated three IDs in the ideation guide. We will go a bit further. So how do you go from those three ideas to one or two concepts? But basically this is the end result of your mini ideation session of two hours. It's also the end of our mini ideation session. What we're going to do now is we'll have a look at some tips and tricks and afterwards there will be time for some questions. If you have any questions, I would like to invite you to write them down now in the chat function. So please write them down. There's 1200 of us, so I won't be able to answer all questions, but I think we can take a couple and then we will try to answer more in the recorded version of this video. So, deep dive into the tips and tricks. What should you know as a facilitator to actually start doing these ideation workshops? Firstly, and it sounds like a cliche, actually it is a cliche, but it's true. Just do it. I remember my first ideation workshop. I was very nervous. I was prepared, maybe over prepared. And in the end I thought, well, that wasn't too hard. So if you read the material, if you watch this webinar, then I'm sure you're capable of organizing your own workshop. So just try it. Start with sticking to the manual and then as you grow in this, you'll become more confident and you'll be able to generate your own tools and so forth. Secondly, be very strict about creativity rules. I like to stress this, but repeat them and enforce them. So that's very important. Thirdly, be flexible. One rule or one really tip I can give you is don't share your agenda. So make an agenda. Make a very detailed agenda. Say, I have 10 minutes for this part, I have 50 minutes for my presentation, I have half an hour for the exercise. Count it all out, but don't share it. All the participants need to know is when do you start, when do you finish, when do they get lunch? Because sometimes you might find that one exercise isn't really working and they need some more bit of bit more time, then you should be able to give them the time. You should be flexible. So keep your agenda to yourself. Don't share it. And then lastly, and most importantly, keep energy levels high. I believe that the 80, 20% rule applies here. Ensure that 20% of your session is pure fun, so no work and you will get results out of the other 80%. So you should put a lot of effort into keeping things fun. How do you do that? Well, every break should be followed by an energizer. So that might be a walk around the block. Or recently we did a capture the flag in the office where we had the CEO of a company shoot with nerve guns against his employees. Or maybe bring a ping pong ball and two pellets and ask a group of 10 people to keep it in the air for five minutes. But just do exercises which get people moving, which creates a group dynamic. And more importantly, make sure that people are laughing. If the energy levels are high, the output will follow automatically. So really, as a facilitator, your main job is creating an agenda, explaining the exercises, but most importantly keeping ensuring that there is a high energy. Now more information. There is a ton of information about ideation out there, so I would invite you to just Google it. We did it for you though. So based upon our Google searches, all our research and the gazillion workshops we facilitated, we summarized everything into a 68 page ideation workshop guide. So we will send you the link after this webinar. But ideation, as we mentioned at the beginning, is just a part of the innovation process. So I would also really like to invite you to have a look at our website. We share all our tools for free and we have a lot of them. So we have tools about strategy, problem exploration, ideation, but also prototyping go to market. So please have a look. There are step by step guides for every tool. If you have any questions, also please feel free to reach out via LinkedIn via our website. If you need any assistance in general, please feel free to call now. So that's, that's the end of this webinar. We're gonna, we're gonna review all the questions in the coming minutes, basically, or they're coming right now. So just hold on tight for one second and we have time for some more questions. Thanks. First question is how to warm up and prepare participants to ideation from Alexander from the States. So it's a very good question. It's basically what we were talking about before, let's say the first, basically the first exercise we usually do, or I usually do to start an ideation exercise is to get people to introduce each other. Typically you would do around the table, which is extremely boring and nobody really cares. So what you could do, even if people already know each other, is you give everybody a post it and a pen and you ask them to draw their neighbor. It's a very simple exercise. And then once they have drawn their neighbor, you let them give it as a gift. Everybody loves receiving gifts, right? And then as you receive the gift, you basically take the post it, you hold it up and you present yourself. And then you have to post present yourself by saying, hey, this is me. And then you ask people to tell an embarrassing fact about themselves. So this is always a bit awkward, but it helps to go first. And then once you've done that, you kind of break the ice and you're ready to go. And the explanation I give here is that everybody's creative. So we all used to draw as children and somehow we forgot or a lot of us forgot that they are creative. So if you force people to draw something, it kind of gets the creative juices flowing and then you're good to go for the rest of your ideation workshop. All right. I would love to thank you all for joining during this webinar. It was great having you here. I really hope that you can take these guides, take these contents, and go do an ideation workshop in your organization and that you can change the way you're working, you are more optimistic and come up with more innovative products and services for your clients and for the world. If you need any help, please reach out to us@helloordofinnovation.com or connect on LinkedIn and then I'm very happy to talk to you.