#323 - Lead Playbook: Fixing Your Pipeline Problem

Foreign. Everybody. And welcome to this episode of 30 Minutes to Presidents Club. My name is Armand Farouk and I'm here with my co host, Mark Kosklo. And today, folks, we are breaking down one of the biggest problems in go to market at all. If you've ever wanted to be a VP of sales, a CRO, or even a Director of sales, you. You need to understand what is going on in your total pipeline. That means inbound, outbound referrals, not just the stuff that's happening on your. And so this session today, this playbook is going to break down how you can fix your pipeline problem as a sales leader. And that pipeline problem might not even be within your team. So, Mark, why should people listen?

Listen, I think this is basic go to market fluency. If you're a sales manager, your job can be considered, boiled down to can you identify a problem and can you put in an effective fix to get the machine working the way that it needs to? And so that's what we're going to be talking about today is like, how do you look at a funnel? How do you look at different metrics and find the problem and then know what fix to put in place?

Part one is we're going to just talk about what are the major components versus pipeline funnel. That usually means inbound, SDR outbound, and AE outbound. From there, we will literally just break down each part of the funnel, how you diagnose issues with it and what you can do about it if it's suffering. Then we'll go to your SDR outbound motion, and then we'll go to your AE outbound motion. And along the way, we'll give you a bunch of stories and benchmarks for different parts of the funnel. So, Mark, let's start at the very top before we dive into any given part of the funnel. Could you give us a snapshot of what are the major levers in the go to market funnel or what are the major parts that contribute to pipeline?

Every company is different. And the way that you can determine what your company's levers are is by looking at the financial plan. There is a spreadsheet that probably your cfo, VP of finance, somebody has that takes everything all the way from the very top to the very bottom, which is like expanding and renewing customers and all that kind of stuff. And what you'll find in there is they've made assumptions. And those assumptions are what you need to hold people accountable to. For example, they'll assume that 40% of your pipeline is going to come from inbound. 20% is going to come from partnerships. 20% is going to come From AE outbound. The rest is going to come from SDR outbound. You should be able to look at that financial spreadsheet and, and if you can't, you should be able to talk to your financial partner about what are the assumptions that we're making about the channels and how much each channel is supposed to contribute to our overall pipeline creation. So if you don't know that as a sales leader, then what you're doing is you're making yourself unprepared to have accountability conversations with your partners. You want to know, go going in, what are the assumptions that the financial plan has made so that you can have the pipeline coverage you need in order to hit your number?

So Mark, I remember when I was at Pave, we had this monstrous first year and we went from zero to $6 million of ARR in a single year. And then we got hit with over a triple of a target. So I was like, go to 20 million. And I was like, here's the problem folks. We did 70% of that number off of outbound. That literally means my SDRs, my AES. We didn't even have a marketer. All we were doing, we're just calling down and brute forcing our way through the market. And that doesn't scale to 20 million. So let's just take a big round number. What is the typical healthy mix? Knowing that it can vary, but what is a typical healthy top of funnel mix between inbound, outbound and AE outbound? Example, we're trying million dollars in pipeline.

I think a reasonable, somewhat generic level will be 40% of the pipelines coming from marketing or inbound. And you put partners in there. 40% is coming from an outbound function like SDRs, which is specifically designed to go outbound. And then 20% would be going from self sourced AE stuff. A lot of the companies I talked to are about in those areas. Unless they have a really strong PLG motion or something like that.

And what do you typically see for variance in win rates or how different are the win rates between each of those buckets of pipeline?

I have found that the inbound is probably in the middle, right? They're not the best, they're not the worst. Typically the SDR and the outbound teams conversion rates are the worst and the best are the ones that the AE self source. Now listen, this gets into a lot of discussions because this is what people say. Our biggest win rate channel is AE outbound we need AES to do more prospecting. Just because AES are getting in a deal doesn't mean, like I had one finance person one time tell me, well, the AES care about their own deals more because they source them. I'm like, there's not one single AE on my team that says I source that deal. So I'm gonna do a better job prepping for it and I'm gonna be a harder negotiator. Nobody does that, right? So the reason that the AES typically have better producing stuff is because they have a better relationship with their territory and they know where people are because of conversations, past opportunities, lost deals, things like that. That's why Outbound is tough. Outbound SDRs is people that usually aren't in consideration or evaluation. You've said something that makes them think, I might want to have a conversation with somebody to see if I have this problem and see if there's an issue.

Just to double down on what you mentioned, it's a really common mistake to look at the win rates of each of these top of funnel mixes and say we should just get more of that one. And the reason for that is all you have prospected before. It's similar to why multi channel outreach is important. Some people only respond to cold emails, some people will only respond to cold calls. Some people need to get a message on LinkedIn in order to reply. But it's not like you can do only cold email or only cold calls or only LinkedIn if you truly want to capture the entire market. There are a lot of SMB companies that will start 80 to 90% inbound. They'll have these super small deals and they'll just get demo request after demo request after demo request. And this was the environment that I came into when I was first starting as an AE at Carta. And the problem is there's this book called Crossing the Chasm. Usually means you have to go from the customers who are coming to your door to you now need to go and pick your customers, you need to go and grab the customers who are not showing up at your doorstep. And the same thing goes the other way around for Outbound. You can only hammer people with cold emails and cold calls for so long until they need to be softened up a little bit so that someone gets hit with an ad and they click request a demo or they they try a product trial. So again, these mixes are general guidelines. They're not end all, be all and you should not try to get 100% of any given channel today's.

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In the Show Notes Today's show is brought to you by Text Us, which helps you move your deals forward faster when timing matters. The fastest way to move a feel forward is to avoid getting stuck in the inbox. And so my favorite way to get on a text basis is literally when your prospect requests a demo, just send them a confirmation text saying that you're looking forward to the meeting and that opens the text channel for you to call back on it later. Folks, we put an entire guide on how to revive ghosted deals, nudge next steps and use texting to keep deals moving forward with Text Us. Check it out. It's free in the Show Notes. Let's assume that the funnel is inbound. SDR outbound AE outbound. Let's start with inbound. Let's assume that our financial plan says 40% of our pipeline needs to come from inbound leads. That's a certain number of MQLs or a certain amount of pipeline dollars or close one rep and you see that that is not trending to where it needs to be. Talk to me about how you break down the funnel into pieces. Where are the different places that I can look to diagnose the problem?

We're sort of the tippity top of the funnel Armon, and you can't really talk about the tippity top without the Passover, the handoff to sale. So we'll start at the top where marketing needs to be really clear on what they're doing. The first thing is is the number of accounts. Like how many accounts are they targeting right now? How many accounts are in campaigns? How many accounts are they serving ads to? That is a number that marketing should be held accountable to because that's like the input. It's like how many accounts an SDR has to go after and how many actually they're touching every 30 days. So same concept just applied to marketing. Once we have the number of accounts, then those accounts are going to do things, they're going to interact with us and then you get what's called an MCA or an mcl. Basically an entity, a person or a company does something that says, oh, you know what, we're now going to take this and seriously and we're going to start to either increase our activity on it, we're going to serve it more tailored ads. Something's going to happen because this is now on our radar. Once they're on the radar now what we're trying to do is increase activity to increase that lead score. So they become a marketing qualified lead or a marketing qualified account. That's an account or a lead that has done enough collective action that it says it's time to pass it over to sales. They seem far enough in their buyer's journey to do something. So then we have an sal. That's when sales looks at that lead and starts to begin to try to book a meeting. Right. We're trying to book a meeting with somebody that's doing it. Once we have that meeting booked, then we need to see does the meeting hold. And that's when we have, you know, that SQL. And then if the SQL, that's the sales qualified lead, we've now qualified it by getting it into a meeting. And then the sqo, which is the sales qualified opportunity, we've now qualified that meeting as an active opportunity that we need to run into a sales cycle. So that's the funnel that you move through and you have to know what each metric needs to be. And I'm telling you in your financial plan, if it's done correctly, you can go find a cell that says In September of 2024, how many sales does our team need and how many MQLs we're supposed to deliver that and how many MCLs are at the very top of the funnel that we need to get all that other stuff going. And that's where that flat financial fluency and knowing your plan helps you understand how are people doing against what they're expected to be doing.

So I want to break down the funnel, starting with the part of the funnel that most people are probably familiar with, which is an mql. So most sales leaders or SDR leaders or even sales reps know the concept of a marketing qualified lead or an mql. And what that means is you oftentimes have a lead who's downloaded an ebook or they've opened three emails or maybe they clicked on an ad. And so marketing scoring those leads to a hundred and they say, awesome. When someone hits that lead score of a hundred or whatever the scoring threshold is we flag that lead to go to an sdr so an STR can reach out to them and say, like, hey, do you want to learn more? Let's talk about the MQL to SAL conversion. So marketing qualified lead to sales accepted lead. That conversion ratio means the following. Marketing is passing me a lead and sales is accepting that lead and choosing to work. If marketing passes me a hundred leads, and if I'm working of them, those are probably really bad leads or sales and doing their job. If marketing is passing me 100 leads and I'm working all 100 of them, they're actually probably leaving some meat on the bone, which is not a good thing because every single lead, they're waiting to the last second to pass it off to us because it's one way too hot at this point. So can you talk about the optimal MQL to SAL ratio that you typically see?

Yeah. I have seen MQLs convert at really great companies between 10 and 25%. Now, that's a big range, right? But a lot of it is determined by, you know, you can have your financial plan out at a 25% conversion rate and then you have to hit that, or you can plan it out at a 10% conversion rate and if you hit that, it works. The plan makes the assumption and that's what you want to look for is what does the finance team expect you to convert at and then are you hitting that number? If you aren't, then you have one of two things to look at. Your sales team isn't correctly taking the handoff or marketing is giving you bad leads. And that's where we get in these little crossovers where there's finger pointing and all that. But yeah, I've seen 10 to 25% to be healthy MQL to SAL conversions or marketing qualified lead to sales has booked a meeting with them.

Great. And you gave a couple different ways that you can fix that. Maybe you need to fix your lead scoring. Maybe you need to implement an SLA where your reps have a certain amount of time to reach out to those leads for the hot leads. Time to first touch is really, really important. But also you need to make sure that the leads are actually good to make sure that that conversion is high and healthy.

This is where, like I have a personal saying, Armand, every lead is a good lead until you talk to them them. And so I don't really want reps going through a lead list and just using their own judgment of what's good or not, what we're going to do is when that MQL happens, there's variance of that MQL. There's. If we're using like a score of 0 to 100, right? And an MQL happens when the score goes above 50. The ones that are say like 70 to 90, you know what, those can go into a sequence with maybe a phone call the first day, but we're not going to like do two or three phone calls that first day or whatever. Then the ones that are 50 to 70, you know what I'm going to do with those is like they're going to be just email only. When however the lead comes in as an mql, I want to have a strategy for every single bucket of those leads where no rep is looking at a lead list in Salesforce and manually determining if they want to go after it. You know, I can't tell you how many times I've done that with a rep. They're like, oh, this one's bad. I'm like, well why is it bad? This is an example of at outreach is well, they sell wedding dresses at a retail location. I'm like, okay, well why don't we talk to them first? Well, guess what, we talked to them and they're like the most sophisticated weddings dress shop on the planet, man. And they have people come in, they have their iPads, they're doing all their stuff, they have their own CRM, they're logging it in. And you know what they wanted to do? They were like, when people leave the shop, we only have 20% that come back in. We want to follow other one. We want to do this stuff, but I want to do it at the consultant level, not the marketing automation level. We signed a $30,000 deal with that ended up growing it to a six figure deal. But that lead would never have been reached out to if we let the rep decide. You never let the rep decide. Everything that you agree is above a certain level with your marketing team gets taken care of, but you just have different ways you take care of it based on how qualified, quote unquote it is.

So we know that sales is going to be working as many of these MQLs as humanly possible. Could you run us very quickly through just the conversion metrics that you typically see down the funnel? So of these accepted leads, let's say you accept a hundred leads, how many people will actually convert to a meeting and then how many of those meetings will convert to an opportunity?

On Inbound, I'm expecting at least 70% of people that come through the system to book a meeting, they're further down the buyer's journey. Right. So 50 to 70% I think is a really strong number then of the people that book a meeting you should have an 80% meeting hold rate and then you should have an 80% of those should qualify into pipeline if you're getting the right kinds of leads and have the right qualification processes in there. And then you should, you know, theoretically win about 30% of those deals. If you do that, you have a machine get more people like these. That's when you have a really fine tuned system. And again, you know that's kind of like mid market ish sale. In a transactional sale the numbers are going to be a little different. In a more enterprise y sale that numbers are going to be a little bit different. So I'm kind of trying to peg the middle. But yeah, like 50 to 70% of qualifieds get booked, 80% of those meetings hold, 80% of those meetings qualify and you win 30% of those opportunities.

And now we know why everyone really wants those inbound leads. And so folks, just to tie off this topic, the reason we started at the middle of the funnel we started at MQL to Sal is that is what is known as the marketing sales handoff. That is where a lot of the friction will take place between marketing and sales. A lot of what happens from that point forward is in the ball court of sales. And so if you want to increase your sales accepted lead to sales qualified lead ratio, in other words, how many leads you work versus how many meetings you get, the three levers that you can oftentimes pull that are in your control as a sales leader are the speed of working those leads, the volume of touches you put on those leads and where those touches come from and the quality or the messaging of those touches. So speed volume and then quality of messaging and then you can further work your way down as you work on no shows and other things and opportunity conversion. We're not going to get into all the ways you got opportunities better in this podcast because that is literally all of sales. The other thing that we haven't talked about Mark, is the stuff that happens higher. Mark. Let's assume that we've found that there's an inbound deficiency and you apply pressure on marketing. We're going to say hey, get us more MQLs, run more ads, send more emails, do whatever you have to do to get more MQLs. But at the same time the reality is if there's a pipeline gap, we know that's coming right back to us.

If you have above or at benchmark conversion rates for your part, and the way that you try to compensate for marketing not delivering what they need to for their part, by tinkering with your system and trying to take 80% to 90% and 50% to 80%, you will bust what's working. And that's the first way to fail is like something that's working, you know, if it ain't broke, don't break it. You can't compensate by getting, you know, 10, 15, 20, 30% above a benchmark that is consider good. You can't get that much far above that without breaking stuff that's actually working. If you have your numbers and you know you're doing well, then encourage marketing to do better. Give them some ideas. Let's have a brainstorming session. Let's sit down with them. Let me look at your list of accounts. Maybe I can help you with that a little bit. There's things that you can do to help marketing, but what you don't want to do is mess up the good stuff that you're doing just because marketing isn't doing it. And I see that all the time. Oh, well, you know, what we're going to do is we're going to just lower our qualification criteria just a touch because that gets us where we need to be. And the next thing you know, you go from a 30% win rate down to a 20% win rate and everybody's pulling their hair out. So don't break it if it ain't broken. And make sure that you put accountability where it needs to be.

Let's talk about AE outbound. This is oftentimes one of the quickest levers you can pull because usually your SDRs are outbounding. Like usually they're going after it. They're literally quoted on outbound. But. But sometimes AE outbound can fly under the radar. Or you could have a team that was historically inbound and there's a big behavior change. But the reality is, like you have these people on your team. Talk to me about how you structure AE outbound in a way that doesn't just have them being an SDR version 2.

Yeah, you don't want to turn AES into SDRs for 20% of their time. Let's say that you have a quarterly quotas with an AE team and they're $200,000 a quarter. What I would do is I'd say, listen, here you go, team. You get 10 accounts every quarter. All 10 of those accounts should have deals with them that are at least 60 to $100,000. And what I need you to do is I need you to get two ops that are at least 60k out of these 10 accounts this quarter for next quarter. If you have 90 day sales cycles, if you have longer sales cycles, you get a need to get a little bit more ahead of it. But that's what I like to do is don't be like, all right, you know, I know you got 200 accounts in your patch and now act like an SDR, but only do it one day a week and that doesn't work. You end up automating too much and you end up burning out. You miss a Friday because you had a mental health day or you took the company at a day off and then you're all out of whack. You want to take a small subset of accounts, 10, 12, 15, you want to say, I only need to get two deals out of these, but every account is going to have monster deals inside of them. Then, you know, you get your two accounts and then you know what happens the next quarter is they're like, you know what, I still want to keep these six because these six, I'm getting close. I need six new ones though, to replace the ones that I got into my pipeline and the ones that I DQ'd out or don't look good or whatever. Then you just give them six more and now they walk in with more momentum because some of those accounts are warmed up. Give them only enough accounts that meet the criteria of those big deals. That's the way to do AE prospecting. It's very different than SDR prospecting where it's just like, here's your account list, make sure you're touching everything. Now we only give you 10 or 12. Your job's to get two monster deals out of those.

Yeah, I remember there was one time where we were trying to get our AES to do even more outbound at Pave and one of the people suggested something they did at a previous company, which is, what if we broke apart SDR and ae books so AES wouldn't get support on part of their book. And, and I was not a fan of that because it was like we wanted to give AES 150 accounts to prospect on their own. The reality is there aren't 150 great accounts in the territory usually. And this requires them to do all of the prospecting work, the research, all of the cold emailing. And that's how you end up with unworked spots in your territory and also excessive fighting over accounts because you're splitting the pie into twice as many pieces as humanly possible. Instead of having the overlay model between your AES and SDRs very similarly, I was like, AES, I gotta know your T10, your top 10 accounts. And I want account plans for every single one of those top 10 accounts. And this really happened at mid market and above. And then from there we would say you've got, if that's the top 10, you've got all the other really great accounts in your book. And those are the ones that you're tag teaming with your SDRs, where you're working with the SDRs on account plans. You might be sending messages over the top, but the SDRs are doing a lot of the work, associated outreach, a lot of the drumbeat of the outreach. And then you've got the rest of your book, which is the stuff that's sort of like in your B, B minus, and maybe C tier accounts. And that's the stuff that you don't really need to keep inside of the real estate of your brain. The stuff that you can oftentimes have your ass focusing. You're focusing on your top 10 and then you're delegating and strategizing with your SDR on the remainder of your A and B plus accounts. So, Mark, we talked about the G for AE outbound. I want to talk about both AE and SDR outbound in the context of volume. And then let's talk about outbound conversion metrics. So volume. I'm curious, do you have volume or activity guidelines for AES, knowing that you're having them work on a really tight book of accounts? And if you do, what are those?

Let's say that my SDR team needs to do a hundred or a hundred dials a day. So 500 dials a week. I want my AES to be prospecting with about 20% of their time. So I take those STR guidelines and I apply them to the AE. So if they have to do 500 dials a week as an SDR, they have to do a hundred dials a week as an AE because I want them doing 20% of their time outbound. Right? So the main things for me with AES is one number of dials. I'm listen, I'm a phone guy. Like, I believe the phone is an ATM machine. If you push the buttons, money comes out. Like, I don't think there's a better channel. I also want to Know how many people that you're actively engaging every week, and we set up a number for that. And then I don't want any overdue tasks at the end of the week in your. In outreach or whatever you use for sales engagement. Ultimately, you have a base salary. Your base salary means I get to dictate some of your job to you, and I am paying for that work. And for an AE, what I'm paying for is $50 a week, five new accounts, and in no overdue task, I'm paying your base salary to do that. If you don't want to do that, then maybe you shouldn't work here. Or maybe we need to adjust your base salary because you're not doing the work I want I'm paying for. And so those are difficult conversations, but they're ones that need to be had because ultimately, you know, outbound is a numbers game. Like, you have to have the right messaging, and that takes time. But, like, if you only call three people a week, it doesn't matter how good your messaging is if they're all in meetings. And so you have to have some kind of activity levels that tell you, I'm going to get some kind of repeatable process in place that will spin off the amount of pipeline I need.

I tend to agree that, look, I want my AES being more strategic, but that does not make you immune or nullified from any sort of activity metrics. Usually those activity metrics are forcing function for the activities to actually happen, which gets you to the meetings.

If you want to blow people away, Armand, if you blow people away as a leader, when somebody says, I don't. I'm too Busy to do 50 calls, you know what I would do? I'd be like, all right, I'll be making 50 of your phone calls next week and showing you that I can do it. And let's look at our two calendars. And I would. I would literally record myself for an hour and a half doing calls out of Outreach and. And being like, I bombed that voicemail bomb, that cold call bomb, this bomb that did. Oh, got a beating, I would just act like the normal rep. Hey, I'm Mark. I'm calling from outreach. You know, 99% of people have no clue who I am, right? And so it wasn't any different. If you want to dispel rumors of what people can and can't do, you do their job a little bit and show them. And I think that gets you street cred. Street cred is, like, super important as a sales leader.

The street cred is critical. And I think one thing that helped me at PAVE is I was the ninth employee, became our VP of sales and my job was to literally sell the first million dollars of customers and hire a team at the same time and run the board meetings. I still made 150 cold calls every single week as a VP of Sales and an AE at the same time without using a parallel dialer. The way you do that is I had three hours of prospecting at the end of the day. So from four to seven I did all my account research and I literally had a virtual assistant who was helping me pull the accounts do the research. So I get my outreach tasks up and running and then from 8 to 9 every single day I was hitting the phones every evening. Two to three hours at the end of the day your have time to prospect if they have two to three hours open on their calendar. And I guarantee you 90% of AES out there have two to three hours open on their calendar. Go look at it and go prove them wrong. You talk about the 20% rule, that 20% shouldn't be peanut buttered by convenience throughout your day. It should be an hour at the beginning, two hours at the end. And just make it really easy for your team to time block those things so that there are no more excuses.

That's the main thing is don't shortchange the work you can do today, hoping to avoid it tomorrow. Just fucking do it right now and you'll always look back and be grateful you did.

So folks, we've got AE outbound strategy. We talked about volume conversion metrics. Just to recap them, Mark, your metrics were 50. E is 250 for SDRs, I would assume because it's just the 5x rule. And then you've got accounts. 5 new accounts for AES, 25 new for SDRs. That was very similar to what I was guiding towards as well. And you have zero overdue tasks by the end of the day. Honestly folks, I had a Monday morning spreadsheet. I broke down how to run a Monday morning meeting and literally I had three activity metrics every week. It was accounts, cold calls, meetings booked. And the reason you don't need to track emails is because Usually you're sending 12 emails for every cold call. So I know if you're doing the cold calls the emails are going out and I don't really have to worry about it. So we talked AE strategy, we talked AE and SDR volume. Mark, to wrap this thing up, would you do the same run through of the funnel for outbound as you did for inbounds. How do I diagnose a problem in my outbound funnel if my SDR team might not be performing?

The outbound funnel is almost exactly the same as the inbound funnel, which is good, but a problem because most people will start to look at SQLs, booked meetings, held meetings, and they forget to look at the channel. And that's where you start to get confusion. Let me give you a good example of that. I was working with a customer, we pulled the two out, added a couple things that they were missing in there. And what we found out was inbound was booking tons of meetings, but those meetings weren't holding. But when they held, they qualified really, really well. And so what do we do? We put in a how do you make sure the meeting holds Process. But outbound booking, good amount of meetings. They were holding, but they weren't qualifying. And so that was a totally different fix for a totally different channel. But because before I got there they'd smushed it all together, they were just working on qualification stuff with the sales team and so therefore they were never going to fix that problem because they had it smushed together with other things. So the same funnel, except for it starts with what I call AOAs, active outbound accounts. I want to know how many accounts have manual activity on them in the last 14 days and I want that to be growing at all times. It doesn't have to grow a lot, but if it's not growing, then your outbound results probably are not growing either. Right? Then once you have active outbound accounts, then guess what? Then we have engaged accounts. Those are people that have opened an email, people that have replied but haven't booked yet. There's some kind of dialogue that's beginning, like they've answered a cold call, but they have yet to actually book the meeting. Now once you get those, then you get your next one. Now we've booked a meeting, we've held a meeting, we've qualified that meeting and we need to win those deals. I think it's so critical to know how many accounts that your team has had manual activity on on a rolling 14 days and how many of those counts have somewhat engaged in a certain way. You can define that in lots of different ways. I defined it as like anything beyond them getting an outbound touch. So if they open an email, replied to email, picked up the cold call, whatever. And so that's how I look at it. And you know, a lot of People skip those top two and they just look at are we booking enough meetings? If you don't have like a funnel above that, then you don't know what to fix. If you're not booking enough meetings versus me, I can be like, listen Arman, we need you to have 500 accounts as active outbound accounts at all time and you only have 300. Like you need to get some more people into the system in order to have the numbers that you need to get there. Folks.

Oftentimes people will over rotate on some of the metrics here. I think the bigger takeaway that Mark is pointing at is you need to break down your outbound process step by step. And you're already doing it today, but when you actually pull up their numbers, they're completely different. I'm a big proponent of go throw your rod in the pond, get your team doing the minimum viable outbound activities and then look at your conversion metrics for the top reps, for the middle reps, for the bottom reps and then you can start to identify the midpoint of what what is good conversion for any. And so you can start to unpack your outbound funnel step by step. Instead of just saying we don't have any meetings, how do I get more meetings? Make more cold calls. It's not just a volume thing. So folks, we went through every single part of the go to market funnel. We talked the top of funnel mix of 40% inbound, 40% SDR outbound, 20% AE outbound. But knowing that can completely change based on your financial plan and your business. We talked about the inbound funnel and the different places where you need to have that conversation with your marketing team on the MQL and the SAL handoff and all the different ways you can impact your inbound funnel. And then we gave you strategies for AE outbound volume guidelines for both AES and SDRs and then a high level overview of the outbound funnel as well. So folks, if you like this one, both Mark and I have done a series of sessions on how to run great sales team meetings. We'll include a link to that newsletter down in the show notes and if you like this one, let us know in the podcast comments if you're on Spotify or just reply to our newsletter and tell us what you want us to cover on the next sales leadership playbook. Peace.