Cash-Based Physical Therapy Q&A | CashPT Lunch Hour #25

My name is Aaron LeBauer I am practice owner here in Greensboro, North Carolina. I own a 100% cash based physical therapy practice. It's called Labourer Physical Therapy. And today I wanted to do a live Q and A for the group because what I do is I help passionate physical therapists create, grow and market successful cash based practices. And I've had a lot of questions lately. I've seen a lot of awesome questions in the Cash Pt Nation. We've got 18, I'm just looking at the 1857 members, which is amazing. And so I'm here to answer any of your questions. I've got a few that people have left already and what I want to do is just allow you guys to answer as many questions or ask as many questions as you want. So leave your question in the comments and I'll see them and as we go along, you know, just let me know if you want any clarification or have anything else. So to get things started, I've got. Let's see, here it is. I've got a great question, let's see, from Victoria. And she asks, I was wondering what activecampaign does that mailchimp doesn't. I know you prefer it and wanted to know why. I've literally only done two newsletters or announcements on mailchimp, so I have no clue. And why do some people choose to use AWeber? I know that Paul Goff uses Infusionsoft, but that sounds a little bit overkill for me right now. I'm in. See, I'm on vacation. Thank you very much. Can you cover exactly how you use samcart? So there's the second question. So the first question is about email marketing. So the first thing I'll say is that in a cash based practice, marketing directly to patients is the best way to go. You really have to market direct to patients if you want to get patients to buy into you and you want to get patience to understand what you can do for them. ActiveCampaign, AWeber, Infusionsoft. These are programs that you use to run email marketing campaigns. And so what is the difference? Well, I'll start infusionsoft is like the granddaddy and it does everything. And then you've got, on the other end you've got something like mailchimp, which is really easy to get started. Mailchimp is a more basic program and infusionsoft does payments, it segments, it tags, it does all kinds of crazy things. But if you look, let's look at email marketing like this It's a linear thing. A person signs up for your email list and what an automated email system does is on day zero, it'll send them a welcome message. On day two, it'll send them a hey, how you doing? Message. On day five, it'll send you something else. On day 30, it'll send you another message. And anytime someone signs up, they're going to get the same sequence of messages. So that's email marketing. One of the other things you can do with email marketing programs is have it auto post or email out your blog posts. So when you post to your blog, it'll auto message anyone on your list with a new blog post. If you guys are on my email list, you should have seen that in the past. You'll get emails, messages from me, you'll get blog posts, messages from me, etc. So what does ActiveCampaign do that Mailchimp doesn't? You know, I haven't used Mailchimp. I haven't paid for Mailchimp, but I can. But I know that Mailchimp does what are called broadcast messages. All of them. All these programs will do a broadcast message. What ActiveCampaign does really well is, is segment your audience. People who have back pain, people who have neck pain, people who came in for your free visit, people who are your patients. It can really segment people and you can make lots of rules to target your message directly to people who want to hear it. Mailchimp doesn't do that really well. Mailchimp doesn't target people. I don't believe that mailchimp has the ability to grow into a very sophisticated email marketing program. Although it might be great for what your doing right now. And I know people who make a lot of money using mailchimp. But if you're setting your foundation and building your Systems, something like ActiveCampaign, which has a low barrier to entry, I think it's $9 a month for less than 500 people. And it has the ability to grow with you. And it has the ability to segment. It does almost everything that infusionsoft will do except take payments. So. So that's the difference between ActiveCampaign and Mailchimp. And yes, Infusionsoft is like the granddaddy. So it's the grand poobah. It's the grand poobah of email marketing, but it's got a higher barrier to entry. And Victoria's other question is a little bit about SamCart. How do I use SamCart? So before I talk about SamCart real quick, everyone who's watching, if you guys have questions on your practice, about regulations, setting up a cash based practice, et cetera, whatever, just enter them in the comments section below the video and I'd be happy to answer your questions. So what is samcart? Samcart is a program that I use to create a shopping cart, to create checkout pages for my products. So I have digital products for cash based physical therapy and I also sell memberships to online wellness programs. In January we did what's called the Clean Slate Challenge. So in January we did the Clean Slate Challenge. It's something that my wife and I came up. It's kind of like a pared down whole 30. And I used Samcart to create the checkout page. So sure, I can collect, you know, someone can call me over the phone and I can use square or send a Square Invoice or PayPal Invoice. But what this is is a very good looking checkout page that tells you what you're going to get. It takes the credit card information and it delivers the product. So it can deliver the digital download or can add you to a membership, website, etc. So Samcart also has the ability to create affiliates. So one of the things you can do as a practice owner is have your employees or your other therapists be affiliates of your wellness program. So the Clean Slate challenge was a 30 day, no sugar exercise, every day program for $37. And what I can do is make my assistant Sarah an affiliate. So anyone that she emails or gets to sign up for our program, she'll get 20, 30, 40, 50% of the product. So what Sarah did was share it on her Facebook page and emailed it to her friends or anyone that who's interested that she thought would be interested in and she can get a percentage. And that way, let's say she sells three or four of them. So she's going to get an extra 150 bucks for the month. What employee doesn't want to do that? You know, that's the way you get your physical therapists that work for you on board selling your wellness programs. So that's a big, that's a big incentive for people to like, just, you know, like to help you sell and to make some more money themselves. All right, so that's what Sam. So Victoria, what samcart does for me is it creates a really pretty checkout page that allows me to create affiliates, collect payments and deliver products in a very seamless way. And if you have any other questions Want to check out my samcart information? I think they even do like free. I've even got a link that has a free trial. I think right now they're doing like a 90 day free trial for Samcart. Let me know and I can share the link with you or anyone else here. Let me know and I'll do that. I got a great question, a great question from Michael. What is the legal implications of affiliates for healthcare providers? Well, it depends on if you're doing physical therapy or exercise and fitness. If I'm providing physical therapy, I'm not going to affiliate my healthcare service. So someone sends me a referral for physical therapy, I'm not going to give them $20 for every referral they send me. But if someone gets in my online exercise and group training program that I'm leading, that's not a healthcare service, that's group exercise and group online coaching. So that's different. There are two different things. The Clean Slate Challenge is run by labour physical therapy, but it's not a physical therapy program, it's not a reimbursable program, it's not a healthcare program. Yes, some places like Blue Cross or UnitedHealth might have programs like that or ask people to participate in certain health programs. But there's a distinction, it's kind of like the distinction between what is a medically necessary service for Medicare patients and what is exercise and group fitness. But I will also say that I am not a lawyer, so. So if you have legal questions and you feel like there's a line you need to be aware of, then yeah, definitely consult your healthcare lawyer about what you can do or can't do for those kinds of programs. But if you're thinking of doing affiliates, but affiliate for physical therapy is just like giving a kickback for patients and that's not the same thing as affiliates for group training, wellness couch to 5K, the clean slate challenge, the whole 30, those kinds of things. Jason Palladino asks what ideas do you have to build my Google Business Page? This is a great question for your. If you don't have one right now, go claim your Google Business page. If you own a business and you have not claimed your Google Business Page, don't do it right now. Do it when you finish listening to this. Make it the next thing you do. When you. When this video or podcast ends to build out your Google Business Page, several things you want to do is you want to attach your blog, you want to attach your website, they could be the same thing. Any other places that you Contribute content. So if you're a content contributor for other websites, you want to link those, you want to upload or attach your YouTube account at some point. You can upload pictures to your Google Business page or it might link to your Google Business profile. You want to attach as much content and videos and pictures and images as you can. You want to have your business hours and the whole profile filled out, a description, etc. You want to have it linked to like a profile image, all those things so that people can come there and get information about your practice and call you. That's how you build out your Google business page. And then the next most important thing that you want to do is get Google reviews. And how do you do that? You ask your patients in email or in person, you say, you know, they say, oh, I've had a great, you know, I've had a, I feel so good, I've had a great experience here, blah, blah, I feel so I've ever felt better, you know, or I told my friends about you, but have they called and what I'll say is, you know, if you would like to help other people make a better decision about where to go for physical therapy or help other people get the same results that you've had, one of the best things that you can do is write us a review on Google. And they go, oh yeah, especially because a lot of times they've been influenced by our Google reviews, like, oh, I'll do that. And We've got over 30 Google reviews. No one else in Greensboro has more than I think five Google reviews. Have you used MindBody software? If so, your thoughts? I haven't used MindBody software in my office. I've used it when I was teaching yoga at a yoga studio in town and my wife has used it in her yoga practice. She owned a yoga studio for a while. And this is my thought on mindbody. It does a whole lot and it was built a long time ago so it's a little clunky but and there's some things that you, that you have to do. Like you just, if you're going to use it, you got to be patient. But it's great if you're going to have a lot of instructors and group classes and, and teachers and packages and memberships. I don't know of another program that's going to do what it does in that regard. Like if you're going to have a clinic with, you know, group classes every day, you want to charge people, recurring monthly charge for access to certain things. You Want to have different teachers, etc. I think mindbody is probably one of the best things for that. But it's gotten so big that it can be clunky to attach two accounts together. You have to go through a bunch of steps to rectify a problem. You have to go through a bunch of steps. I know that people, my wife, she spent a lot of time on the phone with them, et cetera. It's not that customer service is bad, it's just it takes time. So if there's no other option that's going to do everything you want, I don't think mindbody is an issue. I think it's a great resource. We just don't need it here in our clinic and so we don't really use that. Nancy. Hey, Erin, can you describe your group online fitness program? Yes. I'll tell you a little bit about it. So the one we started with in January is called the Clean Slate Challenge. And my wife and I just came up with some rules. It's basically, you know, minimum of 20 minutes of exercise a day and no sugar and no added sugar, and minimized a couple other things, dietary guidelines wise and exercise guidelines. And what we did is we sold this program for $37. And what you got was I created a Google Doc, a Google Doc that had the instructions like the guidelines and some resources, so links to some of my videos and downloads and resources and even video resources that weren't mine. And then we added everyone to the Facebook group. So what happened is when you join that through samcart, it adds you to a specific list and tag to add you to a specific automation in my activecampaign, which sends you a welcome email, this will send you a link to join our group. And then the person gets that, they get the download, they get the link, they join the group. And then what we did is we did an exercise of the week, we did a tip of the week, we did like a mindful habit, eating habit or something of the week. And then we answered questions in the group and people in the group introduced themselves. So when someone new came in the group, I introduced them. I said, hey, welcome Nancy, thanks for joining the Clean Slate Challenge. Can you introduce yourself and what inspired you to join us? And so people introduced themselves and they started connecting and having conversations together. It was really awesome and beautiful and it was a one month program and it just ended. And what we've done is we've rolled everyone into the labour PT community, which is an online, a free online group for people that are in our our physical therapy community. And then the next program I'm going to do is we're going to do March, April, we're going to do a couch to 5K and it's going to be a two month couch to 5K program that's guided by a physical therapist with running tips and exercises and stability exercises and, you know, pacing and oh, you've got questions, we'll answer them. And to get you to a goal of, you know, running a 5k or run walking a 5k or get you to your goal of get your 5k PR, etc. That's my online group fitness programs. So right now there's one free one with a paid group and then a paid group and then a paid group and eventually we're going to move to one group that's just paid all year long. But we're going to get everyone into our free groups first plus these other paid groups. I hope that helps. Nancy and gives you a little overview of what we're doing. Jason if you have two locations, yes, you can link your two Google business pages. You just need to search for how to do it or maybe check, I'm sure go to Google and Google it. I haven't done it because I don't have two business locations, but I'm sure that you can link them in a way or at least link them to your personal profile. You should be able to get a business profile with two different locations or you'll have two different locations that might be separate, but as you if they're linked, when you upload the information, it should cross. Okay. Michael Muldoon asks, have you used intakeq and what are your thoughts? Michael Yes, I use intakeq and I use it right now and I've been using it for about a year and a half. The number one thing I can say about intakeq is that they listen to their customers and they make changes based on customer requests. There have been probably a dozen things that I've said, does IntakeQ do this or how do I do this using IntakeQ or I wish IntakeQ would do X, Y and Z and they've implemented it within the next month or so. So they're really responsive. I like it a lot. It saves me tons of time, especially as a solo practitioner. It saved me a ton of time with processing intake forms because I emailed it to patients and they would fill it out at home, send it back in and I would just download and upload the document right to Google Drive. Boom. Really easy. I use it for Scheduling it links with Google. One of the things I asked was how do I get it to link with Google or two way sync with Google. So if I delete something in activecampaign it deletes it on Google and vice versa and they've done that kind of thing. So it's really great. When you add a second practitioner you have to basically switch between screens and we've recently only added a second practitioner, my wife who's been working with me for a long time but now that I have an assistant we're trying to let her schedule patients for my wife for her massage and yoga practice. And adding a second practitioner just takes a little getting used to, but it's pretty seamless as well. I highly recommend intakeQ, but there are other things that schedule a little bit differently. You've got calendly and set more and acuity etc. You want to find what works best for you. The other thing I really like about intakeq is if you have an intake form or a consent form and you don't want to spend the time typing it in, all you have to do is upload it to them and for nine bucks they'll put it in their system form for you and it's some of the best $9 I've ever spent. If you're interested in Intakeq, let me know and I'll put the link into the comments below where you can get a 20% discount for 3 months and yeah, I think you get a 20% discount for 3 Months. I'll put it in intakeq link below. I think it's like intakeq.com cashpt but I can put that in the comments section. Michael asked another follow up question about IntakeQ. Do I use the payment through IntakeQ and scheduling as well? Yes, I do do the scheduling but I don't do payments through intakeq. I've been using Square and I just been doing that so I find that easy. I think. I don't know that I want people paying ahead of time for their appointments. I think if intakeq had a swipe feature I might start using that to sell packages through intakeq that might be available but you can also add packages manually so we just use Square for that and that's just been easy for me. What's up Mandy? Mandy asks, is Google and Google business the same? Yes and no, because it's changed over the course of the last few years. Google came in as a social network and it didn't really catch on as a big social network and then you ended up getting. There's what's called Google My Business, which is a little bit different and that's Morph two. And so you have a Google Business page which is kind of your Google My business Information, which is kind of your Google Maps information. So as I was doing that and entering my stuff a few years ago, it was changing and it's changed since then and so they've morphed things. The best thing to do is for your practice is to go and get your Google Business profile set up, but you also want to add a Google Business Page and that might pre populate. Nowadays once you do the Google My business location settings or claim your profile. I don't work for Google so I don't know exactly what they're doing, but they're not technically, technically the same, but they have had a lot of crossover in the past and so that's where that might come from. Jonathan Henderson. What's up, Jonathan? What scheduling software do you use? Google Calendar. Yes. So I think I just answered this, but I use Google Calendar and Intake Q to manage it. Intakeq is where we schedule our patients and I use Google Calendar personally. My wife and I share calendars so I can see what she's doing, she can see what I'm doing. It's just been easy. I've been using it for a long time and it's really great. And if you're worried about hipaa, if you sign up with G Suite, you can for 5 bucks a month or 10 bucks a month. There are two different plans. 10 is unlimited storage and 5 is capped at like a terabyte or something like that. 500 gigabytes. It's a lot. And 10 bucks is not that much. You can sign a BAA with them and then your stuff is secure. Not all the Google apps are secure through hipaa, but most of them are. Yes, intakeq is HIPAA compliant and they will sign a baa. Exactly. You just have to ask and request, but they'll totally do that for you. Okay. There was another question I got when I saw in the chat. This is from Stacy Lee. She said I just had my first Medicare patient call and say that he didn't care that I was private pay only. Money is not a problem and he just wants to get help with walking and pain in his hip. So frustrating that I had to tell him I can't see him but will refer him to a friend who takes Medicare. Is there still no change in the silly Medicare beneficiary rule? Yes, there is still no change. Hopefully that'll change soon. I think one of the senators who's introduced the Medicare Patient Empowerment act now is still in Congress or still in Congress or the Senate and active and hopefully they'll reintroduce it again this year and that it will be a little bit more effective. It's not top of the list for anyone. It's about private contracting with Medicare patients. However, to answer your question, there's a couple things you can do. Like if this person just needs help with walking, you know, and some stretching, you can see you can do exercise instruction, fitness, personal training with them. However, if you're going to go down the road of utilizing one of the exceptions to the Medicare rule, there's a few things you need to do. You need to be really well educated on the Medicare policies and procedures and how it relates to cash based practice. You need to have a payment like a Medicare consent or agreement that pretty much I think everyone signs. And you need to be very clear with patients that what you're providing is not covered by Medicare or secondary. And probably most importantly what you need to do is consult with attorney or your attorney to discuss kind of the ramifications and your personal, your risk tolerance and where you lie in this swath of gray between Medicare covered service and non Medicare coverage service and medically necessary and not medically necessary and can I treat this person or not? And by doing that I think you'll be well educated on the topic and have an understanding of what your risk is if you choose to see someone. When this rule and law hasn't really been tested in court, there's some information in the Federal Register and understanding and interpreting that is takes quite a while. There's, I mean Jared Carter and I did a two hour webinar on this for our private groups and we spent two hours talking about it. So in just like a few minute answer, the best thing I can do is say read up about it. You know there's information on my blog about Medicare that I can post here as well or post for you if you want to learn a little bit more about that. But in the meantime, yes, it's still the same and patients won't get it, a lot of pts won't get it. And one of those things that people told me when I first started practicing, like oh, you know, you can't treat Medicare patients in cash practice. Like what are you talking about? Like this is ridiculous. As a massage therapist I can treat them no matter what. Now I'm a PT and now I'm limited It doesn't make sense. It's not financially beneficial to CMS to have this rule. You know, if patients pay us directly, then they don't have to send the patients any money. I mean, it should save them money, but it's just not a top priority for a lot of people. Jonathan asks, what do you use Google Docs for Documentation? Yes, I use Google Docs for documentation, but for seven years I used Paper Notes. And so, yes, so the toolkit that I have, Jonathan said he's going to be using my toolkit. So in the toolkit I should have some links to the Google Docs files that I use. I also have downloads that you can use to print out and keep patient notes. And so for a long time I did Paper Notes. It was really quick and simple. And one of the things I love about Paper Notes is I've got the file right in front of me and I open it up and it's got my little drawing where the paint is, it's got my top five things that's going on with the person and my last note right on top. And it's really easy to see all that information at once. And you know, if there's one. Just one thing about Google Docs I don't like is I can't open up the patient history form and the SOAP note at the same time. And yeah, maybe I could do that on an iPad, but that's tricky and it's small and it's just not the same. But so I use G suite for documentation. I use it for my aaron@lebowerpt.com email address. I use it for my sarahbowerpt.com email Address. Not my email address, but my assistant and my wife andre@lebowerpt.com so we all have our own@lebowerpt.com email address that's managed by Google. One of the best things about Google is their search capacity. So you can you just archive everything and you search for whatever you, whatever you want in there, and it's really powerful. I use it for scheduling, etc. So that's what I use that for. And I use Google Drive. So Google Drive is where we keep our patient files, where I keep a spreadsheet that has all the training videos that I've done and checklists that I've created for my employees. I use Google Drive to host a lot of information that I send to people so I can like that clean slate challenge guidelines. I create a Google Drive document with it and you put in Google Drive and You right click and you do share, and you click shareable link, and you copy the link and you paste it in your email, in your welcome email, and the person clicks on it and boom, this Google Drive document pops up with their links and information and stuff like that. So that's what I use that for, and it's really, really awesome. Yeah, paper notes are great. You know, I love. I love my paper notes. There are two problems that I have with paper notes. Number one, my handwriting is almost illegible. So when I go back, I can't even read my own handwriting. So. And I'm faster at typing, though. I use. Right now I use an iPad with a Bluetooth keyboard. I wouldn't recommend buying that for doing documentation. I would probably get a Chromebook that has a keyboard built in, because the Bluetooth connection between the keyboard and the iPad loses connections really quickly. And it just takes time to get back. And I type really fast. The other issue I had with paper notes, which isn't a big issue because I only see 25 patients a week, is that I've got seven years worth of paper notes in the back. But one year really fills a banker's box. The last few years, I used it filled about a banker's box and a quarter. So it's not really that much stuff to keep around. You know, if I was mobile, I probably have to keep it in my house. So that's. I mean, that's really the only thing. And as I grow and expand, I want to have other employees. So I need everyone to be able to access the notes and have information there. So the moving to, like, an online EMR type of system made sense. Although a traditional EMR to me, doesn't make sense because most traditional EMRs are built for in network clinics that charge you a percentage of collections or like a monthly fee that's really high. And what that does is that incentivizes you to collect. But when I don't have cost to collect, the online emr, you know, they scrub my notes, they attach codes to it. You know, I think someone posted the other day that they were having trouble with webpt. If someone was just for a wellness visit and they didn't have an ICD10 code, well, she couldn't, like, complete the Note without the ICD10 code. But there should be an option, you know, for someone to come see me without having anything wrong with them. You know, so that's something that. That's something that, you know, I've always had issue with. It's like well, why do I need to pay 150 bucks a month? You know, like, there's a lot of other ways to leather ways to skin the cat. The benefit is, if you're in network, they help you with some of that processing and claims and making sure your notes have all the information that you need. Okay, so Michael asked, can you scan your old paper documents? Can you scan your old paper documents into Google Drive and keep it HIPAA compliant? For old notes, yes. What you do is you scan through a scanner, which takes time. What I've done is I use an app called camscanner. C A M S C A N N E R camscanner. And you can just go through and take. You just press it. Picture, picture, picture, picture, picture. And you just do that. 50 pages or more or 10 pages. And it will upload it as a PDF. So CamScanner will turn it into a PDF first, and then it'll upload it directly into Google Drive. And I did that with all my old patient notes, but what I didn't do was do that to my patient notes where the patients weren't currently being treated in the clinic. So when I switched, if someone was currently being treated in the clinic, then I upload their old notes, or if they reactivated and came back, I get their paper notes out of the file and have my assistant do it, and she scans them and uploads them. So she does the SOAP notes separately from the history. And yes, you can keep it HIPAA compliant because Google Drive is hipaa. When Google Drive is HIPAA compliant, you're not sending it to anyone else other than straight up to Google Drive through your Internet connection. Yes. Awesome. Oh, Karen says use the education code for ICD10 for wellness patients, I'm assuming. So thanks for that tip. Megan Pittman. What's up, Megan? How you doing? It's great to have you. Megan asked, how did you decide on a practice location originally? So my very first practice location was in downtown Greensboro. And the reason we decided on that was because it was the right place at the right time for the right price. And price had almost 100% to do with it. We got a great. A great price. We've got. I think. What do we do? We negotiated like 400 bucks. My wife gave three massages a month, so we kind of bartered half of it. So we ended up only paying 250amonth. It was awesome. I mean, it was like nothing, so. And it was in a decent location. It was convenient location to everyone. It had easy parking. It had Double doors and an elevator to get on the third floor. If it was 200 bucks on the third floor with no elevator, we wouldn't have done, we wouldn't have done it. And we were there for seven years. And that's initially how I came to that conclusion. So I think that, you know, in a low overhead practice you want to look at like, well, how do I minimize my overhead? And in a cash based practice, in a specialty practice, people aren't coming to you because it only costs 25 bucks. People are coming to you because you offer something that they're not getting elsewhere or you've explained it in a way that they're going to get something that they can't get anywhere else except with you. So they're going to travel across town out of state, you know, to come see you. I have people come see me from 30 minutes an hour away out of state. I had someone come in from California this year. She flew in to see her daughter in Raleigh, which is an hour and a half away, and drove in to see me for a treatment because she had seen one of my YouTube videos. I mean it's pretty awesome. So location isn't primary. When you don't have a walk up business, you don't have like a retail walk up business. Okay, Justine asks, what do you think is an appropriate amount to charge for a 4 week class on self MFR or myofascial stretching 1 week times 60 minutes each class? See, I think so this is, that's a great question. These are in person classes. One week I would do at least $60 a person because let's say a yoga Studios are charging 15, $18 a class. What you do is you say you know, one class is, you can, you can say one class is valued at 30, $34. But if you buy all four classes in a package, we'll do for $59 or $57 and then you're still getting about $15 a class. When I taught a group class, I did an hour and a half, we did $30 and I had 30 something students and it was full and it was great. And people are not only coming to do the class, but they're coming for your expertise and your knowledge and just provide like the value that you know how to sell. And so I think somewhere in the 15 to $18 range. But it wouldn't be unreasonable to charge someone 120 bucks if there's five people in there and you're doing lots of, you're going to do like let's Say you're going to do a mini eval. You're going to do, you know, some kind of assessment. It's not physical therapy, but you're going to figure out like, what is each person's problem and how do I tailor this to each person? Going to tailor this to each person. We'll charge 120 bucks for four classes. You know, if you're going to limit it to five or six people so you can make a very personalized thing. Look, you've got four classes for four hours for the same price or less than I charge to see you for one hour in my clinic. And there you go. I mean, you can say like, this is worth, you know, So I charge a hundred bucks an hour in my clinic. Each of these sessions is valued at $100. So this is a $400 course that you're getting for a fraction of the cost. All you have to do is pay 97 dol. You get all four courses, you get all these handouts, all this information. You get this personalized assessment from me and everything. So that's kind of how I would approach it. I think that's a great, great idea. If you're going to partner with someone. We did a 50, 50 split where they did some of the marketing. If you're just going to rent a studio, just rent a studio. But I think that's kind of how I would price that. Robby asked this great question. Do you offer any other retail or back end services that are doing really well? Yes, I totally do. At the same time, we don't make a ton of money on it, you know, And I'll tell you here, let me show you guys. Here's our retail section right over here. This is the cool thing. So we offer education. So I've got some education books that I offer. We've got some yoga straps, some rock tape, some rumble. There's my rumble roller for sale. We do. What else do we do? I do cranio cradles and thera canes. My assistant Sarah really loves the thera canes. So she's been selling, selling them like hotcakes. And she's like, erin, we need to order more theracanes. How do I do that? Like, where's the, what's the theracane guy's number? The thing with retail, and this is a great question because this is what my master class tomorrow for the Cash PD blueprint is all about, is about retail sales. The thing about retail is it's a way to help your patients get Better, faster. It's not a money maker, okay? In order to make money on retail, you've got to have, like, this fancy boutique. You've got to have people coming in who aren't getting treated to buy your stuff, and you have to have a lot of stock on hand. The other thing about retail is there's some of the products I just showed you that I cannot get for half of the retail price. I cannot get them for half of the retail price. And I can't have a retail business unless I can buy something for less than the retail price. You know, I don't want to. Part of me, I would love to tell you guys what I got. And part of me is like, I don't want to go naming names, but I've got a couple products where no matter what, like, even though I can get it without paying sales tax, I just can't get it. You know, I can't get one of the books for less than $13 plus shipping. Or if I order 250 or more, I can get free shipping, but it still cost me 12 bucks. And you can go on Amazon and buy it for 18. So how am I. How do I do? I mark that up to 25. And now someone's got to pay 25 bucks for a book where they can just go on Amazon and buy it for. Buy it for 18 bucks. So that's the thing about retail is what it does is it helps you give your patients a better result. Because patients aren't going to go online, buy something you recommend. I mean, they really aren't. I did that for years. I was like, you need to go and buy the rumble roller, or you need to go buy the theracane or go buy this thing, because it's going to help you. And they just won't do it. They, you know, one in 10 are going to do it, but, oh, no, I haven't. But if I have it here and I'm like, you need this. I use this at home. It's going to do X, Y and Z for you. They'll walk out the door with it. It doesn't matter what it costs. The most expensive thing I sell costs 46 bucks. And it's because I can't get it for less than 30. But if I'm going to put out 500 bucks or to, you know, to keep it on the shelf so that I have them, I need to make some money on it because then it's like I'm just paying for people to buy it off of me. So that's the thing with retail. One of the things that we do and can make a significant amount of money on is the online wellness programs and fitness programs that we sell. And that's what I was talking about beginning of the broadcast about using how I use samcart, which is a checkout page product. And it allows me to. You can scale those as high as you want. You can be nationally known and have an online coaching program scale it. And that's one we've only started adding and we made. Okay, so for this, the clean slate challenge we did in December, we were driving to my mom's house between Christmas and New Year's and my wife and I brainstormed about it. I already had the idea about what to do, but we brainstormed about it. We sent an email to our patients, like that week. So Friday, and then I sent them on Saturday. And January 1st was Sunday or Monday. And we made $650 or something like that, which isn't a ton of money. But we were on vacation out of the office and that's still the same as seeing five patients. And we ran this program for a month. And if we basically telegraph that if I give people enough notice, then we can make more. I mean, those kinds of programs can be thousands of dollars a month. And that is where I think that's where to answer your question is that's the back end program that you can add. That's value added, that extends your ability to treat more people, to affect more people. Because not everyone's going to come pay 150 bucks to see you, but people might pay 37 bucks to have you help manage their exercise program or their. Or they're between going from physical therapy back to CrossFit or physical therapy back to running. Once they don't need physical therapy, you can add these kinds of services and it's great. And even for people that might need physical therapy, you can add some online services that are not physical therapy services in quotes, but they are wellness programs run by you, a physical therapist that people will pay for, even if it's a $20 program. You get 200 people in a $20 program and you've got a great income. So yeah, totally. But think about this. Physical therapy can be the back end product as well. And that if you look at it that way, that's your marketing. When you go and market your business, your front end product isn't physical therapy. It's got to be something else. It's the free ebook, it's the free talk you're giving or the $15 stretching class, the $15 yoga for back here class, or $30 yoga for back here class? Those are your front end products. Your back end product is physical therapy. And then there's a back end product to that, which is post discharge product. So for Aaron LeBauer the Cash PT Nation and Labour Consulting, this has been the Cash PT Q&A. Thank you guys for joining me. I look forward to seeing you.